2 Million public sector workers to strike

[Kizzy]

Britain is about to face one of its largest walkouts of public sector staff, the GMB union has said, after as many as two millions workers agreed to go on strike.
The trade union has announced that its members in councils and schools, which make up part of its 620,000-strong membership, have voted three-to-one to stage a mass walkout over pay and conditions on 10 July.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/two-million-school-and-council-workers-to-go-on-strike-after-gmb-and-two-other-unions-vote-yes-9568810.html

[Kizzy]

Not that anyone's interested but the public sector are striking again.

So cameron is going to 'enforce' change...

'David Cameron has been accused by union leaders of being a "Bullingdon bully" after he vowed that the Conservative election manifesto would tighten the screw on strike laws in response to what he regards as Thursday's illegitimate mass walkout of up to 1 million public-sector workers.

Cameron attacked the low turnout thresholds in union strike ballots and challenged the validity of mandates to take industrial action derived from ballots conducted more than a year ago in some cases.

The prime minister said: "I think the time has come for setting a threshold. It is time to legislate and it will be in the Conservative manifesto.'


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/09/david-cameron-strikes-1m-walk-out-bully-threats

[Livia]

I'm looking forward to the private sector, who also haven't had rises and don't have the benefits and security the public sector have enjoyed for decades, to strike. Then we really will be ****ed.

[Kizzy]

I'm sure you don't want to highlight the difference between the public and the private sector to everyone... Unless you do?

If not please don't derail my thread with irrelevant information.

[Kizzy]

'The government implemented a public sector pay freeze for two years from 2010–12 and has subsequently imposed a 1% pay cap, meaning some of the lowest paid workers have seen their income fall in real terms for more than four years.

O'Grady said: "Nearly half a million local government workers earn less than the living wage. But even as the economy starts to grow, ministers have told them that the pay cap will last until at least 2018.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/10/strikes-public-sector-industrial-action-pay-pensions

[Cherie]

'The government implemented a public sector pay freeze for two years from 2010–12 and has subsequently imposed a 1% pay cap, meaning some of the lowest paid workers have seen their income fall in real terms for more than four years.

O'Grady said: "Nearly half a million local government workers earn less than the living wage. But even as the economy starts to grow, ministers have told them that the pay cap will last until at least 2018.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/10/strikes-public-sector-industrial-action-pay-pensions

and that is why I am just back from the picket line. Why not help the public sector out like they have helped themselves and the bankers.

[Kizzy]

and that is why I am just back from the picket line. Why not help the public sector out like they have helped themselves and the bankers.

Well said cherie! Hope to god we get these self serving boneheads out of there asap!

[Josy]

There is striking here today, not sure if it's for the same thing though?

[Kizzy]

Yes it is Josy, Scotaland is still part of the UK for now :)

[Josy]

Yes it is Josy, Scotaland is still part of the UK for now :)

Forever hopefully, but that's for a different thread.

[AnnieK]

All schools and councils on strike here too.....great for the traffic this morning but not so good for the parents and agency staff we have working for us who had no choice but to lose money and take a day off. I'm undecided on this....I still don't see the point as no-one will listen to them. I also remember strike action crippling my families finances when I was a kid and my parents worked for the Post office and British Telecom and they were both on strike at the same time. Nothing was gained but money problems for my folks.

[HD]

So that's why the bin didn't get emptied today

[Kizzy]

All schools and councils on strike here too.....great for the traffic this morning but not so good for the parents and agency staff we have working for us who had no choice but to lose money and take a day off. I'm undecided on this....I still don't see the point as no-one will listen to them. I also remember strike action crippling my families finances when I was a kid and my parents worked for the Post office and British Telecom and they were both on strike at the same time. Nothing was gained but money problems for my folks.


They have to be made to listen Annie, It must have been hard growing up my dad was a postman and he would've been disgusted at the sell off, British telecom too who owned BT cellnet now O2.... how much money has been lost handing those to the private sector? Billions.

[arista]

So that's why the bin didn't get emptied today


Not every worker that is on strike



Unions are to go six feet under
soon

[Kizzy]

Not every worker that is on strike



Unions are to go six feet under
soon

Make your own thread on your opinion on unions arista.

[Verbal]

Had to laugh watching the news earlier, a Tory MP blaming the strikers for any inconvenience that the general public will be put under as a result.

They wouldn't be striking if it wasn't for the Tories. God I hate them.

[Livia]

Seems the million strikers they were expecting turned out to be half that number.

[arista]

Seems the million strikers they were expecting turned out to be half that number.


Bang On Right

[Cherie]

Not sure I'm believing the official figures from the Cabinet:whistle:

[Kizzy]

Is that what Mr Maude told you, is that not enough 500,000?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/10/public-sector-strike-live-coverage

I think the coverage shows it was much more than that.

[Cherie]

600 schools closed in London alone.

[Livia]

Is that what Mr Maude told you, is that not enough 500,000?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/10/public-sector-strike-live-coverage

I think the coverage shows it was much more than that.

If Francis Maude told me the sky was blue, I'd have to look out of the window to check. Was it more than that? Is that what the Guardian told you?

[Crimson Dynamo]

the average number of unionists who voted to strike is 18%

:umm2:

[Kizzy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsK2fL6IQAAZtwu.jpg:large

[joeysteele]

I do think the question as to why more trade unionists don;t partake in voting as to industrial action needs addressing.
If I was part of something then I would want to exercise my right to vote on all things,even the tedious things.

Would I trust this Govt and the hapless David Cameron to come up with a solution that was fair and appropriate as to that however and the answer would be a resounding no from me.

Workers need the Unions,they must always be kept in place and so it is the Unions themselves who have to ensure that it is not assumed members are in favour of striking but get them to use their hard won votes to say so rather than sit on the fence.
I recall once having to choose a debate to participate in while at Uni and a great number of students there were able to participate but the result was decided by only 60% who voted.
The other 40% indicated they couldn't choose so would abide by the majority decision made by others.

It could be argued the same in Union ballots, that those who don't exercise their votes allow a majority to be reached which they have no desire to overturn,thereby almost giving consent on a larger scale by not participating.

Tne right to strike is a necessary element in industry as far I am concerned, this Govt has annoyed and pulled down sectors of society with total dismissiveness,ignorance and arrogance, especially with the firefighters.
Personally I agree strikes hit the people who need the services,my only wish is that those affected by such action,( and most strikers lose pay too when they go on strike),would get at the real people to blame who enforce changes without due consultations,dictate rather than negotiate and dismiss any talks that are not geared up for only to accept their way.
Those people are this Govt;it's Ministers and this pathetic PM and Deputy PM.

It is, for me anyway, high time workers were not any longer pulled down but were built up by the people in power,to be spoken 'to' and not 'at'.
No changes to Unions balloting or practices from this Govt. would for me be in any way just,fair or appropriate,they could not and should not be trusted.

[Kizzy]

Thankyou so much joey, a really fair and reasoned response.
It's worth reiterating that post industrialisation people fought tooth and nail for workers rights, they have a duty as members to exercise that right and not not rely on other members to defend their rights or whatever is in dispute.
As it is the government it's probably going to be very conflicting for most as you expect the establishment to conduct themselves in a fair and rational manner... Unfortunately they don't.

[smudgie]

I believe in the right to strike.

I also believe you should have 50% or more members voting for a strike before if takes place. Only democratic after all.

[Kizzy]

I believe in the right to strike.

I also believe you should have 50% or more members voting for a strike before if takes place. Only democratic after all.

The current governments respective parties got less than 50% in the election, it can be disputed that they were democratically elected...

[smudgie]

The current governments respective parties got less than 50% in the election, it can be disputed that they were democratically elected...

Yeah, time the system had a shake up.
Then again, heaven knows how.:shrug:

[joeysteele]

I believe in the right to strike.

I also believe you should have 50% or more members voting for a strike before if takes place. Only democratic after all.

I don't agree totally, I think if people have a vote then they should use it but having a free vote means you don't have to.
However abstaining from voting means that you can only take the result from those who take the time to vote as in elections.

For instance in local Council elections, whole councils are elected where only around 35% of those able to vote do so but the results stand solid.

It is generally assumed that the abstainers care little either way so thereby give consent and legitimacy to the result from those who did vote.
We don't hear those Union members who chose not to vote demanding the strike not be held so more evidence of a quiet consent in part at least.

As I said,it is an issue that does need addressing,however by the Unions themselves and not a dictatorial form of legislation from this arrogant,incompetent and dismissive Govt.

It could even be that less than 50% of Scots vote in the forthcoming referendum for instance,if that happened and the result was to leave the UK for instance, that result would stand despite that low turnout.

If you cannot get people to vote in something then fair enough but their unwillinglness to take a few moments to cast a vote should never be allowed to negate the votes cast from those who took the time to and whatever result came form that vote.

Really, we also have never had a Govt of any party elected with over 50% of the vote for something like 7 decades now, however those result are valid for them to govern.
In fact under out electoral system at present you could have a Govt in power that didn't even get the most votes at all let alone 50% of them.

[Vicky.]

Our jobcentre was on strike today...only had people in manning the phones. I found out because this morning I recieved a letter to go in for a 'work focussed interview' 2 days after my due date. Like...seriously..do they not have better things to do than try and get me in 2 days after I have a baby, when I'm chance to not even be out of ****ing hospital by then anyway.

[Kizzy]

Take baby in with you...leave the cord attached :joker:

[Anaesthesia]

Wow, Kizzy..if you want to have a fair and reasoned debate, then Livia brings up good points.

Know I'm only a n00b, but you can't have a one-sided thread?

[Vicky.]

Take baby in with you...leave the cord attached :joker:

Honestly, if I have to go overdue this time, I am really hoping my waters go right in the jobcentre...

[Kizzy]

Wow, Kizzy..if you want to have a fair and reasoned debate, then Livia brings up good points.

Know I'm only a n00b, but you can't have a one-sided thread?

Yes you are, if you weren't you would know that the public v private sector gets thrown into every discussion even though they're not comparable.
I did ask if she would like to explain the difference... that's fair.

You didn't give your opinion, I would be happy to hear it.

[Kizzy]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IhbNiK3Xyfg/U7UhU3i0xzI/AAAAAAAAJr8/utHamkuAVrc/s1600/costofliving.jpg

The 'I'm alright jack' message is not to be accepted, a 0-1% for nurses increase against the 11% MPs have been afforded... how is this proportional?

[lily.]

To be honest, some of the folks out there striking ought to try living on minimum wage for a while. A lot of the public sector workers are earning quite a nice sum compared to those of us who have to work for the private sector.

[Kizzy]

I don't understand what you mean by this lily, you think teachers, firemen and nurses should be on minimum wage because you are?
If you have the required level of professionalism then you can choose to work in whatever sector you want, because the private sector put profit share before workers pay and rights it doesn't mean the public sector should reduce wages...

[Cherie]

I don't understand what you mean by this lily, you think teachers, firemen and nurses should be on minimum wage because you are?
If you have the required level of professionalism then you can choose to work in whatever sector you want, because the private sector put profit share before workers pay and rights it doesn't mean the public sector should reduce wages...

:clap1: alot of people in the private sector seem to have a chip on their shoulders regarding public sector pay and conditions, but have no problem with ministers awarding themselves inflation busting increases, the government refused to get around the table to discuss an end to the pay freeze which has been in place for the past 3 years what other course of action is left ?

[Kizzy]

Totally, especially regarding the cost of living increase over the last 4yrs, to accept a pay freeze and then 1% due to 'austerity' finding out the government have afforded MPs 11% must have been a right slap in the face!

[lily.]

I don't understand what you mean by this lily, you think teachers, firemen and nurses should be on minimum wage because you are?
If you have the required level of professionalism then you can choose to work in whatever sector you want, because the private sector put profit share before workers pay and rights it doesn't mean the public sector should reduce wages...

First of all, I am not on minimum wage.

Secondly, I did not say teachers, firemen, nurses etc should be on minimum wage.

Thirdly, I did not say the public sector should reduce wages.

So, to address your question, since you didn't understand my original post... I think some of the people who are striking should be thankful they are in a well-paid job.

Professionalism has little or nothing to do with it, when you consider the person who empties the wheelie bins is well paid compared to some private sector workers.

And, your statement about 'choosing to work in whatever sector you want' doesn't always apply. There are large areas of the country where a lot of 'professionally skilled' people are unable to 'choose', because the options simply are not there.

[Kizzy]

You suggested they try living on minimum wage... why would they? They've earned through vocational study to a level that they are beyond minimum wage it wasn't just binmen protesting was it? it was all category 1 responders (bar the police),teachers and others as well as local council employees.

Could you clarify your last point as I really can't understand your reasoning here,

'professionally skilled' people are unable to 'choose', because the options simply are not there'?

[lily.]

My reasoning is that there are a lot of skilled people, some with degrees who are unable to secure employment in their area of expertise.

ETA: There are also people working in the private sector who have 'earned through vocational study to a level that they are beyond minimum wage' yet they still have to accept minimum wage.

[Kizzy]

My reasoning is that there are a lot of skilled people, some with degrees who are unable to secure employment in their area of expertise.

ETA: There are also people working in the private sector who have 'earned through vocational study to a level that they are beyond minimum wage' yet they still have to accept minimum wage.

Exactly.. do you find this acceptable? I don't.
public perception is shifting and it's worrying, if you work in public service and are employed by the state to provide your skills, knowledge and talents then you should be respected and rewarded with a decent wage and a protected pension in my opinion.
The expansion of unregulated, underskilled, undervalued private sector staff in some areas of public services in companies whos only aim is to minimise outlay and maximise profits will contribute to the destruction of infrastructure and in turn communities and society as we know it.

Not that this was intended to be a public/private sector debate initially so I'd prefer to steer this back on topic. Why are the government so against now we are in recovery holding out on giving a fair wage increase to those who we rely on so much? And why are the unions given such a hard time for fighting for the rights of those who we depend on currently in this country.

[joeysteele]

Exactly.. do you find this acceptable? I don't.
public perception is shifting and it's worrying, if you work in public service and are employed by the state to provide your skills, knowledge and talents then you should be respected and rewarded with a decent wage and a protected pension in my opinion.
The expansion of unregulated, underskilled, undervalued private sector staff in some areas of public services in companies whos only aim is to minimise outlay and maximise profits will contribute to the destruction of infrastructure and in turn communities and society as we know it.

Not that this was intended to be a public/private sector debate initially so I'd prefer to steer this back on topic. Why are the government so against now we are in recovery holding out on giving a fair wage increase to those who we rely on so much? And why are the unions given such a hard time for fighting for the rights of those who we depend on currently in this country.

Not just holding out now Kizzy but even saying it could be 2017/2018 before any kind of effective rises as to wages may come into place as to the public sector.

This Govt. has left industrial action as really the only course of action left for these people to take because of its dismissiveness and arrogance towards them.

[Kizzy]

What will be left of the country by the time they are finally ousted joey? not much :( Pockets will have been lined enough to ensure the elite 1% maintain the stranglehold on the 99% though.