Gay cake drama in Northern Ireland!

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Bert and Ernie gay marriage cake refused by Northern Ireland bakery
Ashers Baking Company accused of discrimination after refusing to make cake featuring gay pressure group slogan.

A Northern Ireland bakery run by devout Christians could face legal action after they refused to make a gay-themed cake depicting Sesame Street couple Bert and Ernie.

Ashers Baking Company published a statement on its website defending its decision to refuse to bake the cake as the slogan above the puppets was in support support gay marriage.

Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK where gay marriage is still not legal. That ban is expected to face a legal challenge later this year, firstly in the high court in Belfast, with the possibility of the action going all the way to the European court of human rights.

In its statement, the company's general manager, Daniel McArthur, said: "The directors and myself looked at it and considered it and thought that this order was at odds with our beliefs.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/08/bert-and-ernie-gay-wedding-cake-northern-ireland-ashers-bakery


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02967/bert_ernie_02_2967282b.jpg

Gay puppets Bert and Ernie, yesterday

[Niamh.]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2dtacs5.gif

[arista]

They should have agreed what the cake design was
and give it to them in a box covered up.

back door etc - Cash

[Shaun]

back door etc? :joker:

[arista]

back door etc? :joker:


yes more private

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes more private

What if they ordered the cake and went round the back but there was no reply. Would they then have to smash the back door in?

[lily.]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2dtacs5.gif

lol

[Verbal]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02967/bert_ernie_02_2967282b.jpg

Gay puppets Bert and Ernie, yesterday

:joker:

[Nedusa]

Those Puppets are sooooooooooooo Gay........lol.







.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't think this couple will have a leg to stand on tbh.The bakery did'nt refuse to serve the couple because they are gay,Infact the couples sexuality was never brought into it.They just refused to print an offensive(to them) message.Imagine if someone went in and asked for a cake with profanity or blasphemy on,They would'nt have to make it.I wonder what would have happened if this couple went into an Islamic bakery?

[arista]

What if they ordered the cake and went round the back but there was no reply. Would they then have to smash the back door in?


No as by phone
the owner would go to the back door
and get his CASH



Life In The City

[Kizzy]

For gods sake, bert and ernie are not gay.

[Princess]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2dtacs5.gif

That cinema is in my town. Nothing to do with anything but just felt like pointing that out.

[Kizzy]

You live on craggy island!? :D

[the truth]

a business can choose to not make any product it likes. this non story is a joke.

[Nedusa]

A gay joke or a straight joke...???




.

[the truth]

A gay joke or a straight joke...???




.

wed better make it a straight one, gay ones are banned by the thought police.

[Achilles]

Bert and Ernie are gay? :eek:

[Niamh.]

Bakery is found guilty of discrimination, too right :smug:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-case-ashers-bakery-boss-we-will-not-be-closing-down-we-have-not-done-anything-wrong-31233797.html

[arista]

Will they Close?

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/26/380161/default/v2/1239424-851075081588864-8736398101507678487-n-1-762x428.jpg

[Niamh.]

Will they Close?

I wouldn't think so, I'm sure they were just find £500 or something

[Kazanne]

What if they ordered the cake and went round the back but there was no reply. Would they then have to smash the back door in?

We'll have no talk of smashing back doors in on this thread LT:fist::whistle:

[Crimson Dynamo]

looks like god loves a good gay and not a prick who discriminates

[Mokka]

Will they Close?

They haven't even been put out by this... they have some kind of christian action group paying their legal fees and fines.... and now they have advertised themselves to the christian community and probably picked up loads of business

[Niamh.]

They haven't even been put out by this... they have some kind of christian action group paying their legal fees and fines.... and now they have advertised themselves to the christian community and probably picked up loads of business

Leave them to it I say, atleast this ruling has set a precedent now, if they want to keep paying legal bills and fines, that's their stupidity and loss :shrug:

[Mokka]

Leave them to it I say, atleast this ruling has set a precedent now, if they want to keep paying legal bills and fines, that's their stupidity and loss :shrug:

oh I agree... I wouldn't want them to be putout of business. that isn't the solution. But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake :hehe:

[Niamh.]

oh I agree... I wouldn't want them to be putout of business. that isn't the solution. But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake :hehe:

:fan:

[joeysteele]

oh I agree... I wouldn't want them to be putout of business. that isn't the solution. But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake :hehe:

That's a great idea.:joker:

Really glad however that they have had the court ruling go against them and the publicity that goes with that too.

[arista]

They haven't even been put out by this... they have some kind of christian action group paying their legal fees and fines.... and now they have advertised themselves to the christian community and probably picked up loads of business


Well then

The Angry Gay Activists
will start Stage 2

[kirklancaster]

That's a great idea.:joker:

Really glad however that they have had the court ruling go against them and the publicity that goes with that too.

Yeah - So great an idea that if I was the cake shop owners I would close all 9 branches across Ireland and put all their 80 employees on the dole to prevent just such a probability.

[joeysteele]

Yeah - So great an idea that if I was the cake shop owners I would close all 9 branches across Ireland and put all their 80 employees on the dole to prevent just such a probability.

Well good for that, they could of course sell the businesses and let people who weren't religious bigots provide the cake making service instead of them.
I say that from my Roman Catholic upbringing too, I hate the discrimination done in the guise of religion.

I would cheer if such prejudiced people lost their businesses.

[kirklancaster]

Well good for that, they could of course sell the businesses and let people who weren't religious bigots provide the cake making service instead of them.
I say that from my Roman Catholic upbringing too, I hate the discrimination done in the guise of religion.

I would cheer if such prejudiced people lost their businesses.

Mokka: But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake

JOEY: "That's a great idea."


And I hate the thought of dickheads deliberately going into a cake shop to bait people who have now been rendered vulnerable and defenseless to such bullying because of a ruling by the Equality Commission - an organisation wide open to corrupt and banal actions by the PC brigade.

Lee is a Gay Rights activist who deliberately targeted these people to create a 'Test Case'. It was a 'set up' from start to predictable finish - as the statement from Lee's lawyer attests:

""It is difficult being a pathfinder in a discrimination case."

This dickhead could have simply taken his business elsewhere.

I have not spoken to one single GAY person out of dozens since this case started who does not think that a mountain has been made out of a molehill and that this could have been avoided.

This Christian Irish family did not refuse to bake the cake because of anyone being gay - they serve gay customers daily - so any talk of 'discrimination'is pure B.S.

Oh - and these decent people have as much right to be Christian as Lee has to be Gay.

[Tom4784]

Mokka: But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake

JOEY: "That's a great idea."


And I hate the thought of dickheads deliberately going into a cake shop to bait people who have now been rendered vulnerable and defenseless to such bullying because of a ruling by the Equality Commission - an organisation wide open to corrupt and banal actions by the PC brigade.

Lee is a Gay Rights activist who deliberately targeted these people to create a 'Test Case'. It was a 'set up' from start to predictable finish - as the statement from Lee's lawyer attests:

""It is difficult being a pathfinder in a discrimination case."

This dickhead could have simply taken his business elsewhere.

I have not spoken to one single GAY person out of dozens since this case started who does not think that a mountain has been made out of a molehill and that this could have been avoided.

This Christian Irish family did not refuse to bake the cake because of anyone being gay - they serve gay customers daily - so any talk of 'discrimination'is pure B.S.

Oh - and these decent people have as much right to be Christian as Lee has to be Gay.

Really? REALLY?

Religion is a choice but your sexuality is just part of who you are. You aren't born religious, you're indoctrinated into it. Comparing a religion to sexuality and saying they should be treated the same is incredibly ignorant. Religion's one of the main reasons why discrimination is such an issue because people use literature from thousands of years ago to justify their bigotry.

Religion doesn't need protecting.

[Tom4784]

Yeah - So great an idea that if I was the cake shop owners I would close all 9 branches across Ireland and put all their 80 employees on the dole to prevent just such a probability.

You must have an incredibly deep seated hatred of the gays to think that putting so many people out of work just to spite gay customers who are giving you business is a good and reasonable idea.

[kirklancaster]

You must have an incredibly deep seated hatred of the gays to think that putting so many people out of work just to spite gay customers who are giving you business is a good and reasonable idea.

As usual, you are jumping into a thread to 'take me to task' for what I have stated in a post, but as usual, you are MISINTERPRETING what I said and spouting rubbish based on a CATEGORICAL and DELIBERATE IGNORING of FACTS.

Why is it is ALWAYS night time when you jump in and SOUND OFF in this manner? Is it SAFE for you to INDULGE your PERSONAL PREJUDICES because the other - more equitable and rational Mods are OFFLINE?

Whatever the reason, your ACCUSATION that I "must have an incredibly deep seated hatred of the gays" is a deliberate false one in light of my many posts on here concerning my many years of friendship with hundreds of Gays, my enduring close friendship with numerous Gay close friends, my decades of patronage of Gay venues and Nightclubs from Heroes in Manchester to Heaven in London, the fact that I was a supporter and active Campaigner for the CHE - Campaign For Homosexual Equality - for many years -- through a time when Gays REALLY KNEW THE MEANING OF DISCRIMINATION.

So do me a favour, keep your tiresome, personal little attacks to yourself because you are lying in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If you have anything logical to discuss I will be only too pleased to accommodate you, but until then stop lying and get your facts straight.

Coming to what you state, although I am tired of having to do this with you, I suppose if you GENUINELY cannot comprehend good English, then I must once again expound:

"to think that putting so many people out of work just to spite gay customers who are giving you business is a good and reasonable idea."

I never SAID close down the SHOPS and put 80 employees on THE DOLE TO "spite gay customers" - that's YOUR INVENTION again - I said to do so to avoid being bullied and baited by Gay people DELIBERATELY going into their shops to order DAILY, AS THE SUGGESTION WAS IN THE POST I WAS RESPONDING TO.

In simpler words; IF I WAS LAID VULNERABLE TO BEING DAILY BAITED AND EITHER FORCED TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST MY WILL OR BE CONSTANTLY PROSECUTED BECAUSE OF THIS COURT RULING, THEN I WOULD PROTECT MYSELF, CLOSE MY SHOPS AND SAY FECK THE EQUALITY COMMISSION.

GOT IT NOW?

GOOD.

Oh - and you're opinion that the type of 'Gay' customers in the context of my post would be "giving you business is a good and reasonable idea is nonsense if they are merely being sent in DAILY to place orders merely for baiting purposes.

Read the posts if you do not understand as much.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I'm not reading that essay because I already know it's going to contain nothing but (not so) sly digs and random capitalised words.

[Jack_]

As usual, you are jumping into a thread to 'take me to task' for what I have stated in a post, but as usual, you are MISINTERPRETING what I said and spouting rubbish based on a CATEGORICAL and DELIBERATE IGNORING of FACTS.

Why is it is ALWAYS night time when you jump in and SOUND OFF in this manner? Is it SAFE for you to INDULGE your PERSONAL PREJUDICES because the other - more equitable and rational Mods are OFFLINE?

Whatever the reason, your ACCUSATION that I "must have an incredibly deep seated hatred of the gays" is a deliberate false one in light of my many posts on here concerning my many years of friendship with hundreds of Gays, my enduring close friendship with numerous Gay close friends, my decades of patronage of Gay venues and Nightclubs from Heroes in Manchester to Heaven in London, the fact that I was a supporter and active Campaigner for the CHE - Campaign For Homosexual Equality - for many years -- through a time when Gays REALLY KNEW THE MEANING OF DISCRIMINATION.

So do me a favour, keep your tiresome, personal little attacks to yourself because you are lying in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If you have anything logical to discuss I will be only too pleased to accommodate you, but until then stop lying and get your facts straight.

Coming to what you state, although I am tired of having to do this with you, I suppose if you GENUINELY cannot comprehend good English, then I must once again expound:

"to think that putting so many people out of work just to spite gay customers who are giving you business is a good and reasonable idea."

I never SAID close down the SHOPS and put 80 employees on THE DOLE TO "spite gay customers" - that's YOUR INVENTION again - I said to do so to avoid being bullied and baited by Gay people DELIBERATELY going into their shops to order DAILY, AS THE SUGGESTION WAS IN THE POST I WAS RESPONDING TO.

In simpler words; IF I WAS LAID VULNERABLE TO BEING DAILY BAITED AND EITHER FORCED TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST MY WILL OR BE CONSTANTLY PROSECUTED BECAUSE OF THIS COURT RULING, THEN I WOULD PROTECT MYSELF, CLOSE MY SHOPS AND SAY FECK THE EQUALITY COMMISSION.

GOT IT NOW?

GOOD.

Oh - and you're opinion that the type of 'Gay' customers in the context of my post would be "giving you business is a good and reasonable idea is nonsense if they are merely being sent in DAILY to place orders merely for baiting purposes.

Read the posts if you do not understand as much.

What's with all the capitals and 'Gay' being a capitalised word :umm2:

[joeysteele]

Mokka: But if I was a gay advocacy group set up in their area, I would probable send someone in every day to order a gay cake

JOEY: "That's a great idea."


And I hate the thought of dickheads deliberately going into a cake shop to bait people who have now been rendered vulnerable and defenseless to such bullying because of a ruling by the Equality Commission - an organisation wide open to corrupt and banal actions by the PC brigade.

Lee is a Gay Rights activist who deliberately targeted these people to create a 'Test Case'. It was a 'set up' from start to predictable finish - as the statement from Lee's lawyer attests:

""It is difficult being a pathfinder in a discrimination case."

This dickhead could have simply taken his business elsewhere.

I have not spoken to one single GAY person out of dozens since this case started who does not think that a mountain has been made out of a molehill and that this could have been avoided.

This Christian Irish family did not refuse to bake the cake because of anyone being gay - they serve gay customers daily - so any talk of 'discrimination'is pure B.S.

Oh - and these decent people have as much right to be Christian as Lee has to be Gay.

It is actually a legal court that has found them guilty of discrimination Kirk, not the movement that helped bring the case.

In other words, under the law, they have been deemed to be and found guilty of breaking the law, not the original customers.


It could have been avoided definitely, they could have simply baked the cake, made a nice profit from it and left it all at that, they never had to personally approve of what was on the cake.
Just do what they do for everyone else,provide the service their business is for.

[Mokka]

It is actually a legal court that has found them guilty of discrimination Kirk, not the movement that helped bring the case.

In other words, under the law, they have been deemed to be and found guilty of breaking the law, not the original customers.


It could have been avoided definitely, they could have simply baked the cake, made a nice profit from it and left it all at that, they never had to personally approve of what was on the cake.
Just do what they do for everyone else,provide the service their business is for.

Agreed joeysteele... and in answer to my post... the law has been set and enforced now. If the shop owners want to keep their business open, which I am all for, then they need to bake any cake that is requested of them, provided it isn't pornography in cake form that is.
My point was that they have had huge financial backing from the church and haven't felt the sting of their punishment, so they most likely feel justified in continuing to turn away one certain type of customers over and over. If they are willing to admit that the law is binding in this situation, a gay cake a day should be like money in the bank to them. If not, then they still haven't learnt their lesson.

[the truth]

Really? REALLY?

Religion is a choice but your sexuality is just part of who you are. You aren't born religious, you're indoctrinated into it. Comparing a religion to sexuality and saying they should be treated the same is incredibly ignorant. Religion's one of the main reasons why discrimination is such an issue because people use literature from thousands of years ago to justify their bigotry.

Religion doesn't need protecting.

rubbish. what youre saying is the exact same discrimination you preach against. who the heck are you to say who is born what? everyone is different. you got rid of God now you want to be God.:nono:

[joeysteele]

Really? REALLY?

Religion is a choice but your sexuality is just part of who you are. You aren't born religious, you're indoctrinated into it. Comparing a religion to sexuality and saying they should be treated the same is incredibly ignorant. Religion's one of the main reasons why discrimination is such an issue because people use literature from thousands of years ago to justify their bigotry.

Religion doesn't need protecting.

All good and relevant points,especially the part in bold.

[Mokka]

rubbish. what youre saying is the exact same discrimination you preach against. who the heck are you to say who is born what? everyone is different. you got rid of God now you want to be God.:nono:

Unless you believe there is no God to get rid of... then your points are mute.

[Tom4784]

rubbish. what youre saying is the exact same discrimination you preach against. who the heck are you to say who is born what? everyone is different. you got rid of God now you want to be God.:nono:

Sexuality is biological, you can't control whether or not you like men or women anymore then you can control the true colour of your skin or your hair or your eyes.

Religion is a man-made construct. It is taught, it isn't something that you are born with and it isn't part of your genetic make up. If a boy was raised in an environment without religion or outside influence he wouldn't suddenly decide he was a christian one day, he would however when he was old enough would realise that he was straight or gay or bisexual because sexuality isn't a learned behavior, it is something that just is.

Saying it's discrimination to not protect religious rights when those religions are the reason why we still don't have equal rights is ridiculous. It's beyond stupid. As for the rest of the post, it's just your typical not-so-veiled bigotry that I've come to expect from your posts.

[Samuel.]

Slightly sad I won't be around for when religion completely dies out

[the truth]

Sexuality is biological, you can't control whether or not you like men or women anymore then you can control the true colour of your skin or your hair or your eyes.

Religion is a man-made construct. It is taught, it isn't something that you are born with and it isn't part of your genetic make up. If a boy was raised in an environment without religion or outside influence he wouldn't suddenly decide he was a christian one day, he would however when he was old enough would realise that he was straight or gay or bisexual because sexuality isn't a learned behavior, it is something that just is.

Saying it's discrimination to not protect religious rights when those religions are the reason why we still don't have equal rights is ridiculous. It's beyond stupid. As for the rest of the post, it's just your typical not-so-veiled bigotry that I've come to expect from your posts.

lies hypocrisy, discrimination , double standards and bigotry. You are no one to demand to say what everyones sexuality is. I know many people who were with men for years, then went to women, others in reverse others who were bsexual in later life. you cannot and should not box everyone together and speak for everyone, that is discrimination. you also have no right to say what ALL religious people are or are not and how they hold beliefs. your responses are more judgemental and bigoted than anything else on this topic. As for this specific case if someone who runs a business doesn't want to bake a cake for a wedding or anything else, he/she is perfectly entitled to say no , without reprise or threats of violence from any lobby group.

[Tom4784]

lies hypocrisy, discrimination , double standards and bigotry. You are no one to demand to say what everyones sexuality is. I know many people who were with men for years, then went to women, others in reverse others who were bsexual in later life. you cannot and should not box everyone together and speak for everyone, that is discrimination. you also have no right to say what ALL religious people are or are not and how they hold beliefs. your responses are more judgemental and bigoted than anything else on this topic. As for this specific case if someone who runs a business doesn't want to bake a cake for a wedding or anything else, he/she is perfectly entitled to say no , without reprise or threats of violence from any lobby group.

Well, those people are bisexual and they always have been, they either didn't realise they were bisexual or they repressed it.

I'm not being called a bigot by someone who loses their **** whenever women are mentioned and endlessly whines when Gay Rights are bought up. You are a bigot and a misogynist and deflection will not change that. This is the last time I shall reply to you. You are a bigoted troll and nothing more.

[the truth]

Well, those people are bisexual and they always have been, they either didn't realise they were bisexual or they repressed it.

I'm not being called a bigot by someone who loses their **** whenever women are mentioned and endlessly whines when Gay Rights are bought up. You are a bigot and a misogynist and deflection will not change that. This is the last time I shall reply to you. You are a bigoted troll and nothing more.

how incredibly childish, I call you you out for labelling all people and all sexualities and you respond by petty name calling lol, oh so predictable of a radical liberal.....everyone must of course cow tow to bullying anyone with different views, anyone who questions the liberal hard line must be attacked bullied threatened and beaten up by these groups....you are talking complete rubbish you are being bigoted youre speaking for everyone and telling them what they are and why they are, you nor anyone has any right to do that...everyone is an individual theyre not your subjects.

[kirklancaster]

It is actually a legal court that has found them guilty of discrimination Kirk, not the movement that helped bring the case.

In other words, under the law, they have been deemed to be and found guilty of breaking the law, not the original customers.

It could have been avoided definitely, they could have simply baked the cake, made a nice profit from it and left it all at that, they never had to personally approve of what was on the cake.
Just do what they do for everyone else,provide the service their business is for.

I agree that a legal court actually found them guilty Joey, and because of this fact they have no choice than to legally comply with that finding in their future business conduct - no matter how unfair they feel that verdict to be.

This was one of my very points in my condemnation of the recent 'anti-Tory'
protesters/rioters who rioted against a lawful act of Government - the same protesters/rioters which some on here defended in their NOT accepting a legal decision.

Double standards.

So - yes - it was a court who tried and delivered a verdict in this case, but my point was that the case would not have been brought had the shop not been deliberately targeted by Gay Activist Lee with the specific intention of making a 'Test Case' of it.

When you write: "It could have been avoided definitely, they could have simply baked the cake, made a nice profit from it and left it all at that, they never had to personally approve of what was on the cake."

Being owners who personally received the order, they could not have avoided 'personally' approving or disapproving what was on the cake.

I am all for Gay Rights' and 'Equality', but this entire business to me is cynical and unsavoury, unnecessary, and - like the banning of Nativity plays in some of our schools and the banning of the wearing of crucifixes in some of our workplaces because they might 'offend' a minority - is yet one more example of extending 'equality' on one section of society by imposing inequality on another.

The Equality And Human Rights Commission has been needlessly and cynically exploited once again - in my opinion.

[kirklancaster]

What's with all the capitals and 'Gay' being a capitalised word :umm2:

WHAT capitals and WHERE IS gAY capitalised?

[joeysteele]

I agree that a legal court actually found them guilty Joey, and because of this fact they have no choice than to legally comply with that finding in their future business conduct - no matter how unfair they feel that verdict to be.

This was one of my very points in my condemnation of the recent 'anti-Tory'
protesters/rioters who rioted against a lawful act of Government - the same protesters/rioters which some on here defended in their NOT accepting a legal decision.

Double standards.

So - yes - it was a court who tried and delivered a verdict in this case, but my point was that the case would not have been brought had the shop not been deliberately targeted by Gay Activist Lee with the specific intention of making a 'Test Case' of it.

When you write: "It could have been avoided definitely, they could have simply baked the cake, made a nice profit from it and left it all at that, they never had to personally approve of what was on the cake."

Being owners who personally received the order, they could not have avoided 'personally' approving or disapproving what was on the cake.

I am all for Gay Rights' and 'Equality', but this entire business to me is cynical and unsavoury, unnecessary, and - like the banning of Nativity plays in some of our schools and the banning of the wearing of crucifixes in some of our workplaces because they might 'offend' a minority - is yet one more example of extending 'equality' on one section of society by imposing inequality on another.

The Equality And Human Rights Commission has been needlessly and cynically exploited once again - in my opinion.


Not double standards at all,everyone has a right to protest in the UK it is not an 'illegal' act.
Those 'few' who caused bother and did wrong will have acted illegally. which everyone said almost universally on here,
They will face consequences for their actions too,those who were caught and any who are afterwards in the future.

It is not illegal however to arrange a protest or hold one,the right to demonstrate is a legal one in the UK.
Discrimination against a person or a section of society however is not legal in the UK, and these people if they hold such strong uncompromising beliefs,should not, in my view be in any business that involves the public at all.

As this court rightly judged.
It doesn't matter who brought the case, the case was then heard and was found to be illegal and a discriminatory act.

Your poor example of the protests which had some bother,would not be found to be an illegal act, although the actions of some on that march,(not the march itself), were, and if the police decide action is needed, then it will be.

[MrWong]

It's much more likely that the religious folks were just bigoted, rather than the whole thing being a set up.

Daniel McArthur gave an interview to a newspaper and claimed that the majority of his 60-plus workforce were unaware of his family's faith, so how would the customers know?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-row-gareth-lee-felt-unworthy-over-ashers-bakery-refusal-to-bake-cake-31096066.html

They didn't even advertise themselves as a christian bakers.

Arriving at court ahead of the hearing, Daniel McArthur, flanked by wife Amy, said he was putting his trust in God.

That worked out well for him. :smug:

[Niamh.]

It's much more likely that the religious folks were just bigoted, rather than the whole thing being a set up.

Daniel McArthur gave an interview to a newspaper and claimed that the majority of his 60-plus workforce were unaware of his family's faith, so how would the customers know?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-row-gareth-lee-felt-unworthy-over-ashers-bakery-refusal-to-bake-cake-31096066.html

They didn't even advertise themselves as a christian bakers.



That worked out well for him. :smug:

:fan:

[the truth]

It's much more likely that the religious folks were just bigoted, rather than the whole thing being a set up.

Daniel McArthur gave an interview to a newspaper and claimed that the majority of his 60-plus workforce were unaware of his family's faith, so how would the customers know?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-row-gareth-lee-felt-unworthy-over-ashers-bakery-refusal-to-bake-cake-31096066.html

They didn't even advertise themselves as a christian bakers.



That worked out well for him. :smug:

the radical gay activists were the bigotted violent ones here yet again

[MrWong]

the radical gay activists were the bigotted violent ones here yet again

What activists? When were they bigoted and violent?

Here's the judgement if you are confused about the verdict.

http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/en-GB/Judicial%20Decisions/SummaryJudgments/Documents/Court%20Delivers%20Judgment%20in%20Ashers%20Bakery %20Case/j_j_Summary%20of%20judgment%20-%20Ashers%20Bakery.htm

[the truth]

LETS HOPE THE business people fight this bigotry. they've got every right to turn down business from events like this if its against their beliefs.

[kirklancaster]

LETS HOPE THE business people fight this bigotry. they've got every right to turn down business from events like this if its against their beliefs.

If Asher's had been as cynical as Lee and been prepared to lie and be tactical, they could merely have said that they had refused the order because the message stipulated on the cake decoration was actually urging 'law abiding' citizens to support an illegal act - Gay Marriage.

Could any court actually have convicted with just such a defense? If so would it also be deemed legal to put up posters urging; "Support Pedophilia, Murder British Soldiers, Burn Down Police Stations - the list is fascinating.

It rarely pays to be straightforward and honest.

[Tom4784]

If Asher's had been as cynical as Lee and been prepared to lie and be tactical, they could merely have said that they had refused the order because the message stipulated on the cake decoration was actually urging 'law abiding' citizens to support an illegal act - Gay Marriage.

Could any court actually have convicted with just such a defense? If so would it also be deemed legal to put up posters urging; "Support Pedophilia, Murder British Soldiers, Burn Down Police Stations - the list is fascinating.

It rarely pays to be straightforward and honest.

So supporting Gay Marriage is comparable to supporting Peadophillia and murder?

[the truth]

So supporting Gay Marriage is comparable to supporting Peadophillia and murder?

he didnt say that, what a disingenuous comment

[JoshBB]

LETS HOPE THE business people fight this bigotry. they've got every right to turn down business from events like this if its against their beliefs.


I don't think people should have to comply to something just because it's the rules. Think of the apartheid - would you seriously still say "oh they should just use the water fountain designated for them.. it's the rules"?

[Kizzy]

If Asher's had been as cynical as Lee and been prepared to lie and be tactical, they could merely have said that they had refused the order because the message stipulated on the cake decoration was actually urging 'law abiding' citizens to support an illegal act - Gay Marriage.

Could any court actually have convicted with just such a defense? If so would it also be deemed legal to put up posters urging; "Support Pedophilia, Murder British Soldiers, Burn Down Police Stations - the list is fascinating.

It rarely pays to be straightforward and honest.

Gay marriage isn't illegal.

[kirklancaster]

Gay marriage isn't illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/patrick-corrigan/northern-ireland-gay-marriage_b_6463320.html

[Liam-]

They'd make a lot more money if they just let the gays have cake.

They're not being asked to walk them down the aisle or help consummate the wedding, they're asking them to do their job, which they claim to be professionals at, letting your own personal bigotry get in the way of completing a job, is most unprofessional.

Give them their cake, take their money and keep your business open with a good name, is it really that difficult?

[kirklancaster]

he didnt say that, what a disingenuous comment

It's just more of the same dishonest attack from this moderator The Truth, he shouldn't even be allowed on a Serious Debate Forum let alone be a Moderator.

My views might be too Right wing for most of the Left Wing active majority on here but I do not lie or deliberately continually misrepresent anyone else's view.

I do really try to be fair - and whilst I can become annoyed by some member's posts (as I know they too can be by mine) I NEVER allow personal dislike to creep into my posts because I genuinely DO NOT dislike anyone on here. I do not know anyone well enough for them to emotionally 'move' me enough to dislike them.

This Moderator's continued infantile personal attacks are becoming tedious though and makes me want to not post.

[Crimson Dynamo]

being a business is NOT the same as being a citizen

rules are not applicable

you are awarded status by registering as a business and you must abide by a Different code

the baker misunderstood this and paid the price

its about education

[joeysteele]

They'd make a lot more money if they just let the gays have cake.

They're not being asked to walk them down the aisle or help consummate the wedding, they're asking them to do their job, which they claim to be professionals at, letting your own personal bigotry get in the way of completing a job, is most unprofessional.

Give them their cake, take their money and keep your business open with a good name, is it really that difficult?

Exactly, it shouldn't be difficult at all should it.

Live and let live is a good motto to live by and if we all with respect to people of great faith, lived by the words of religious teachings,no one would be able to do very much of living,always being stifled.

I was born a Roman Catholic, we had Nuns telling us as young children, we should always sleep on our backs with our arms folded across our chest, in case we died through the night so we were ready to meet our Saviour.
I soon walked off from the doctrines of the church and saw the rules of them all and stances of them all as 'more of being about control' than true worship.

In the Christian gospels,to only the words and actions attributed to Jesus,he makes no condemnations, he never advocates judgement,he talks about coming together not dividing.
Most divisions have been created by Christian churches over the centuries,over those putting their personal views into things rather then the one teaching Christianity.

Catholics murdering protestants and vice versa over the centuries,(whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill),I see Christians coming out of church in Winter at the christmas services and driving past people struggling to walk in snow,or icy paths.
It seems to me, that Christian values are only relevant if everyone conforms to what is stated as the norm by 'man managed' churches.
Whereas, the whole basis of christianity particularly is about loving, caring for and reaching out to all,putting ones own needs and prejudices aside.
Condemning not and judging not.

While I have held on to some elements of the faith I was born into, if I do have any times I enact any of it, it is from those words in the gospels only,not all the other additions put there by man.
Men like Paul, who it seems if he got up in a good mood, he preached love and brotherhood for all.
If he got up in a bad mood, he was full of spite and fury against any who crossed him.
Religion should not be like that.

Whatever my practice of faith may ever be, it should never be,if I am a Christian, that I push it into others lives that don't want it to be.
It also means I should not turn away and judge others for their lifestyles either.

I said a while ago, I have Jewish friends,a family, who have a business, their Sabbath day is a Saturday, they should do no work.
That business,since it is a business for the public to use, is open on Saturdays.
Their religious rules set aside.

That is what,in my opinion at any rate, should have happened with this cake shop incident.
Keep their faith intact as to their own opinions and living it out,in their private lives,while still providing the public service of the business to all who want it and not take a judgemental stance.

[AnnieK]

They'd make a lot more money if they just let the gays have cake.

They're not being asked to walk them down the aisle or help consummate the wedding, they're asking them to do their job, which they claim to be professionals at, letting your own personal bigotry get in the way of completing a job, is most unprofessional.

Give them their cake, take their money and keep your business open with a good name, is it really that difficult?

Exactly, it shouldn't be difficult at all should it.

Live and let live is a good motto to live by and if we all with respect to people of great faith, lived by the words of religious teachings,no one would be able to do very much of living,always being stifled.

I was born a Roman Catholic, we had Nuns telling us as young children, we should always sleep on our backs with our arms folded across our chest, in case we died through the night so we were ready to meet our Saviour.
I soon walked off from the doctrines of the church and saw the rules of them all and stances of them all as 'more of being about control' than true worship.

In the Christian gospels,to only the words and actions attributed to Jesus,he makes no condemnations, he never advocates judgement,he talks about coming together not dividing.
Most divisions have been created by Christian churches over the centuries,over those putting their personal views into things rather then the one teaching Christianity.

Catholics murdering protestants and vice versa over the centuries,(whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill),I see Christians coming out of church in Winter at the christmas services and driving past people struggling to walk in snow,or icy paths.
It seems to me, that Christian values are only relevant if everyone conforms to what is stated as the norm by 'man managed' churches.
Whereas, the whole basis of christianity particularly is about loving, caring for and reaching out to all,putting ones own needs and prejudices aside.
Condemning not and judging not.

While I have held on to some elements of the faith I was born into, if I do have any times I enact any of it, it is from those words in the gospels only,not all the other additions put there by man.
Men like Paul, who it seems if he got up in a good mood, he preached love and brotherhood for all.
If he got up in a bad mood, he was full of spite and fury against any who crossed him.
Religion should not be like that.

Whatever my practice of faith may ever be, it should never be,if I am a Christian, that I push it into others lives that don't want it to be.
It also means I should not turn away and judge others for their lifestyles either.

I said a while ago, I have Jewish friends,a family, who have a business, their Sabbath day is a Saturday, they should do no work.
That business,since it is a business for the public to use, is open on Saturdays.
Their religious rules set aside.

That is what,in my opinion at any rate, should have happened with this cake shop incident.
Keep their faith intact as to their own opinions and living it out,in their private lives,while still providing the public service of the business to all who want it and not take a judgemental stance.

This is completely off topic Joey but I'm interested, do the Jewish family work themselves on Saturdays? I only ask because my mum worked for a Jewish company for many years and they opened on Saturday but none of the family worked...I would imagine your friends are possibly not orthodox as I have many Jewish friends who would never dream of working on a Saturday as they are very strict about their sabbath. They would close early on a Friday during the inter to also observed the sabbath.

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;7789913]

This is completely off topic Joey but I'm interested, do the Jewish family work themselves on Saturdays? I only ask because my mum worked for a Jewish company for many years and they opened on Saturday but none of the family worked...I would imagine your friends are possibly not orthodox as I have many Jewish friends who would never dream of working on a Saturday as they are very strict about their sabbath. They would close early on a Friday during the inter to also observed the sabbath.

Yes, admittedly the parents don't but the other family members do so.
The only time none of them do so and then they bring in staff to do so,is around the passover and Yom Kippur periods.
Otherwise yes, they do.

[Tom4784]

It's just more of the same dishonest attack from this moderator The Truth, he shouldn't even be allowed on a Serious Debate Forum let alone be a Moderator.

My views might be too Right wing for most of the Left Wing active majority on here but I do not lie or deliberately continually misrepresent anyone else's view.

I do really try to be fair - and whilst I can become annoyed by some member's posts (as I know they too can be by mine) I NEVER allow personal dislike to creep into my posts because I genuinely DO NOT dislike anyone on here. I do not know anyone well enough for them to emotionally 'move' me enough to dislike them.

This Moderator's continued infantile personal attacks are becoming tedious though and makes me want to not post.

Oh look, you're using the mod card once again when you've been asked about your opinion. How predictable.

I asked you a question, it was not a personal attack. Stop trying to silence the opinions of people who disagree with you. If you can't handle a debate or your opinions being questioned then you shouldn't post in SD. You get personal with me in every topic and it's gotten quite boring now. You can't actually debate with people, you just get petty and snipe at them.

[erinp5]

Coleen Nolan has sparked widespread controversy after clumsily comparing gay rights to supporting ISIS during a discussion on Loose Women.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3089673/Coleen-Nolan-sparks-controversy-comparing-gay-rights-supporting-ISIS-discussion-Loose-Women.html#ixzz3aiGDumKz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
bCxBAgHfWxA

Notice who on the panel she pointed to as going in to ask for such a cake ,not Janet lol


Katie Hopkins @KTHopkins ·
Sorry to see @NolanColeen being slated in the press *kills herself laughing at chubsters downfall'. Gay rights are not the same as ISIS love

[kirklancaster]

Oh look, you're using the mod card once again when you've been asked about your opinion. How predictable.

I asked you a question, it was not a personal attack. Stop trying to silence the opinions of people who disagree with you. If you can't handle a debate or your opinions being questioned then you shouldn't post in SD. You get personal with me in every topic and it's gotten quite boring now. You can't actually debate with people, you just get petty and snipe at them.

You're doing nothing but describing yourself and the text I have emboldened is a deflective lie pulled - like a white rabbit - out of the same hat you talk through when you have no answers and need to resort to fallacious insult.

[Tom4784]

You're doing nothing but describing yourself and the text I have emboldened is a deflective lie pulled - like a white rabbit - out of the same hat you talk through when you have no answers and need to resort to fallacious insult.

You are deflecting. I asked you a question and you ignored it because you know i caught you out.

Why are you comparing Gay marriage to Peadophilia and Murder?

[kirklancaster]

You are deflecting. I asked you a question and you ignored it because you know i caught you out.

Why are you comparing Gay marriage to Peadophilia and Murder?

Only in YOUR teeny weenie 'ickle infantile mind have I compared: "Gay marriage to Peadophilia and Murder" as you have even been told by another Forum Member.

So you have caught only yourself out and now childish one - will you stop badgering?

[Tom4784]

Only in YOUR teeny weenie 'ickle infantile mind have I compared: "Gay marriage to Peadophilia and Murder" as you have even been told by another Forum Member.

So you have caught only yourself out and now childish one - will you stop badgering?

Deflecting again.

How is a civil rights issue like gay marriage comparable to a criminal issue like Peadophillia and Murder? You've still not given me an answer.

[kirklancaster]

Deflecting again.

How is a civil rights issue like gay marriage comparable to a criminal issue like Peadophillia and Murder? You've still not given me an answer.

If you are not sufficiently bright enough or learned enough to be able to discern how they are comparable within the contextual parameters of my usage, then I suggest you employ your time more beneficially by enrolling on a Further Education night course at college instead of hectoring and foolishly trying to bait me.

[Tom4784]

If you are not sufficiently bright enough or learned enough to be able to discern how they are comparable within the contextual parameters of my usage, then I suggest you employ your time more beneficially by enrolling on a Further Education night course at college instead of hectoring and foolishly trying to bait me.

Stop discussing me and discuss the topic. Calling someone stupid doesn't make you smart.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:omgno:

Gay cake converted entire tray of bread rolls to homosexuality


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/breadrolls425.jpg

A GAY wedding cake has turned some bread rolls gay after being left beside them on a bakery counter.

Seeded bap Tom Booker was one of 18 identical bread rolls left to cool beside a homosexual cake made for a gay wedding.

Booker said: “The cake was asking us what sort of music we were into. I said classic rock, like Fleetwood Mac and Dire Straits, and it laughed then suggested should I check out Scissor Sisters and 80s hi-NRG disco.

“As the chat progressed it asked if I had ever been with a man bap. I said that was wrong but the cake said that’s just what the baker tells you to make you behave around customers.”

Baker Norman Steele said: “I came in to pick up the cake and all the bread rolls were having gay sex with each other.

“The way that works is that two bread rolls squeeze together like buttocks and another one gets in between and makes groaning noises.

“I can’t sell them now" :fist:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/gay-cake-converted-entire-tray-of-bread-rolls-to-homosexuality-2015052098454

[kirklancaster]

:omgno:

Gay cake converted entire tray of bread rolls to homosexuality


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/breadrolls425.jpg

A GAY wedding cake has turned some bread rolls gay after being left beside them on a bakery counter.

Seeded bap Tom Booker was one of 18 identical bread rolls left to cool beside a homosexual cake made for a gay wedding.

Booker said: “The cake was asking us what sort of music we were into. I said classic rock, like Fleetwood Mac and Dire Straits, and it laughed then suggested should I check out Scissor Sisters and 80s hi-NRG disco.

“As the chat progressed it asked if I had ever been with a man bap. I said that was wrong but the cake said that’s just what the baker tells you to make you behave around customers.”

Baker Norman Steele said: “I came in to pick up the cake and all the bread rolls were having gay sex with each other.

“The way that works is that two bread rolls squeeze together like buttocks and another one gets in between and makes groaning noises.

“I can’t sell them now" :fist:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/gay-cake-converted-entire-tray-of-bread-rolls-to-homosexuality-2015052098454

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Brilliant LT - Brilliant.

[Z]

:omgno:

Gay cake converted entire tray of bread rolls to homosexuality


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/breadrolls425.jpg

A GAY wedding cake has turned some bread rolls gay after being left beside them on a bakery counter.

Seeded bap Tom Booker was one of 18 identical bread rolls left to cool beside a homosexual cake made for a gay wedding.

Booker said: “The cake was asking us what sort of music we were into. I said classic rock, like Fleetwood Mac and Dire Straits, and it laughed then suggested should I check out Scissor Sisters and 80s hi-NRG disco.

“As the chat progressed it asked if I had ever been with a man bap. I said that was wrong but the cake said that’s just what the baker tells you to make you behave around customers.”

Baker Norman Steele said: “I came in to pick up the cake and all the bread rolls were having gay sex with each other.

“The way that works is that two bread rolls squeeze together like buttocks and another one gets in between and makes groaning noises.

“I can’t sell them now" :fist:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/gay-cake-converted-entire-tray-of-bread-rolls-to-homosexuality-2015052098454

I got a softie after reading that :pipe:

[letmein]

I'm getting ****in hungry.

[the truth]

Stop discussing me and discuss the topic. Calling someone stupid doesn't make you smart.

youve insulted me and posters many times

[the truth]

hopefully this absurd decision by the feminist hetro hating judge will be over turned...any business has the right to choose not to bake a cake for a gay wedding if its against their beliefs

[Shaun]

except it doesn't because it's literally a service lmao but ok

[the truth]

except it doesn't because it's literally a service lmao but ok

?

[MrWong]

hopefully this absurd decision by the feminist hetro hating judge will be over turned

A male judge would have made the same judgement. Asher's broke the law.

any business has the right to choose not to bake a cake for a gay wedding if its against their beliefs

No, any business doesn't have the right to discriminate. Btw the cake wasn't for a wedding.

[kirklancaster]

I'm getting ****in hungry.

:laugh:

[anne666]

hopefully this absurd decision by the feminist hetro hating judge will be over turned...any business has the right to choose not to bake a cake for a gay wedding if its against their beliefs

It wasn't for a wedding and no you're wrong, they don't. More research needed?

[lostalex]

I don't think this couple will have a leg to stand on tbh.The bakery did'nt refuse to serve the couple because they are gay,Infact the couples sexuality was never brought into it.They just refused to print an offensive(to them) message.Imagine if someone went in and asked for a cake with profanity or blasphemy on,They would'nt have to make it.I wonder what would have happened if this couple went into an Islamic bakery?

being gay is not profane or blasphemous. would you say the same thing if it was a cake for an interracial couple? or an interfaith couple (a christian with a jew)?

[Kizzy]

http://www.theguardian.com/global/live/2015/may/23/counting-underway-for-irelands-referendum-on-marriage-equality

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFrt6jbWAAIvkBC.jpg:large

[Niamh.]

http://www.theguardian.com/global/live/2015/may/23/counting-underway-for-irelands-referendum-on-marriage-equality


Looking like a strong Yes result :love:

[Kizzy]

Well, looks like the story was a positive for progressive policies at least :)

[lime]

Looking like a strong Yes result :love:
:dance::dance::dance:
looks like the yes have it :cheer2:
my two eldest sons usally come home to Ireland in August but came home early to vote so it is a double bonus for me....a yes vote ....and to have my two eldest home
:dance:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Looks like the Gays have taken over the South of Eireland

They have a foothold in England in Brighton

which English city will be next to fall?

:worry:

[Samuel.]

Good news, but a third of people against it is still quite shocking

[Mokka]

:dance::dance::dance:
looks like the yes have it :cheer2:
my two eldest sons usally come home to Ireland in August but came home early to vote so it is a double bonus for me....a yes vote ....and to have my two eldest home
:dance:

This is really quite sweet :lovedup:

[Cherie]

Looks like the Gays have taken over the South of Eireland

They have a foothold in England in Brighton

which English city will be next to fall?

:worry:

:worry:

[Cherie]

Good news, but a third of people against it is still quite shocking

They will be the older generation and those who are staunch Catholics I guess, there are generational attitudes in Ireland just like any other country

[kirklancaster]

t is the correct decision as far as I'm concerned.

[anne666]

Well, looks like the story was a positive for progressive policies at least :)

The result was positive by applying Equal Rights law.Something the baker and his sinister creationist Christian Institute backers didn't want. Or did they? A legal precedent of allowing Christian conscience to usurp equal rights would have saved the
worrying next step which is the resulting proposed conscience clause. I tend to think they were after any publicity from this case. They are using the judgement as a religious bleeding hearts plea in the campaign.
http://www.christian.org.uk/news/northern-ireland-conscience-clause-consultation-launched/

Do NI really want any religion, any personal agenda appealing chosen bigotry to usurp equal rights? As well as anyone, not only the religious being given this power? That's what it means.

A dangerous backward step with endless ramifications.

The same proposal in Parliament was immediately and sensibly rejected.

[Kizzy]

NI still don't have equal rights.

[the truth]

they don't have equal rights here for hetro men.....men in a gay relationship adopting kids have better rights than fathers....when gay people split the kids are shared equally as are the costs and benefits

[jet]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2dtacs5.gif

:laugh: Oh how I miss Father Ted. :flutter:

[Niamh.]

:laugh: Oh how I miss Father Ted. :flutter:

Me too :love:

[bots]

i had forgotten about this thread and was expecting it to be about Bake Off :laugh: