Helen slags off Danielle...

[jet]

She told Ashleigh she has been great since she hasn't had to 'babysit her old grandma'. (Danielle). Nasty cow.
But she must be liking her some Ashleigh now...

[Kazanne]

She told Ashleigh she has been great since she hasn't had to 'babysit her old grandma'. (Danielle). Nasty cow.
But she must be liking her some Ashleigh now...

So it's wrong for Helen to call Danielle 'grandma' but perfectly fine for people to call Helen a cow?:joker:

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Actually Helen was right on this occassion and I am not a fan. Ashleigh has come out of her shell and has proved what a better HM she is since the "I've got class Grandma," has left.

[jet]

So it's wrong for Helen to call Danielle 'grandma' but perfectly fine for people to call Helen a cow?:joker:

I'm not calling someone I know a cow in front of thousands of viewers who are supposed to think I'm now Saint Helen. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

she and danielle did pull the house morale down with their snidey moaning like a couple of old prudish nanas.

[Cal.]

Double standards. I'm sure Danielle has done her fair share of bitching about Helen to warrant that.

[Kizzy]

I'm not calling someone I know a cow in front of thousands of viewers who are supposed to think I'm now Saint Helen. :laugh:

It is judgmental and unfair though, being in the house has been cathartic for helen, she's learnt a lot more than most from her time in there I think.

[jet]

Well I forgive Helen as she is giving Ashleigh compliments....quite a few the last few days. She is licking Ashleigh's pert little rear end since she heard the cheers for her.

[Kazanne]

I'm not calling someone I know a cow in front of thousands of viewers who are supposed to think I'm now Saint Helen. :laugh:

It doesn't matter ,you are calling someone for doing exactly what you are doing:laugh:

[Cal.]

Let's just face it this thread was a desperate attempt to turn users into Helen haters because there's been some Helen support these past few days.

[jet]

Let's just face it this thread was a desperate attempt to turn users into Helen haters because there's been some Helen support these past few days.

Oh lighten up. As if Helen supporters are going to change their minds because I say she called Danielle a grandma or anyone is going to go 'OMG, I hate her now!' :rolleyes: :joker:

[RockBottom]

She told Ashleigh she has been great since she hasn't had to 'babysit her old grandma'. (Danielle). Nasty cow.
But she must be liking her some Ashleigh now...

:dance::dance::dance:

[jet]

It doesn't matter ,you are calling someone for doing exactly what you are doing:laugh:

Don't be silly, it's not the same. Helen doesn't know me personally and if she is stupid enough to read the internet me calling her a cow or nasty will seem like a compliment compared to the stuff she's going to see about herself.
She'll be trying to get in touch with me to thank me for being so nice. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Don't be silly, it's not the same. Helen doesn't know me personally and if she is stupid enough to read the internet me calling her a cow or nasty will seem like a compliment compared to the stuff she's going to see about herself.
She'll be trying to get in touch with me to thank me for being so nice. :laugh:

You don't understand..... why are you allowed to be rude about helen but helen isn't allowed to be rude about ex housemates?
Whichever way you twist it it's a double standard.

[Marsh.]

Spot on I'd say.

Given Danielle was a big old fake she shouldn't take it personally.

[jet]

You don't understand..... why are you allowed to be rude about helen but helen isn't allowed to be rude about ex housemates?
Whichever way you twist it it's a double standard.

Because Helen is a nasty vile bully who invites rudeness in return, whereas someone nice wouldn't.
Plenty of people are nasty about all the other HM's, even the nice ones. I look forward to you preaching to them as well....go forth and spread the gospel...I'll be watching!

[Sophiee]

this was a great moment, everyone is better off without danielle there. she definitely brought the mood of the house down.

[Ammi]

...Danielle was there to be a 'grandma'..:laugh:...that was part of her persona of being 'outraged' at virtually everything ...and tbf to Jet, I doubt there is a person on this forum that hasn't been 'rude' about a housemate or can take a higher ground there, it just changes with our favourites and most 'hated' ones/we all know that... because the whole concept of BB is 'judging' the housemates and it's judging her personality which is the whole point of it...Helen also doesn't have any 'ownership' on being called names either...

[Tip]

Agism tut!

Nothing wrong with grandmas - mine was a huge personality, a great deal of fun and sorely missed.

Sadly not many (any?) people in the house are coming across as having huge and interesting personalities - even conflict can be interesting if people have something interesting to say - but there doesn't seem to be anything like that.

We can moan about name calling and bitchiness - but it's all very playground stuff. Have the characters been suppressed or are they just lacking?

[Kizzy]

Most of the attacks on helen have involved very sexually derisory words slut, slag *****, she hasn't done anything in the house to warrant those comments.
That's what I find 'rude' it's nothing to do with her personality and everything to do with her past actions... which I thought we weren't to 'judge' on?
So no it doesn't justify those insults just because she is 'most hated', yes everyone has been rude about a housemate granted but nobody can claim any moral highground by being as insulting or more insulting than helen has ever been can they?

[Tip]

I'd probably care a bit more about Helen being called those types of names if she didn't use those types of derogatory terms for other women herself and if (in my opinion) she hadn't been selected for the house because of her history.

Helen comes across more as you reap what you sow unfortunately - not sure how she can escape that but maybe she can.

[Kizzy]

I thought we were to judge people on how they are in the house... not constantly refer to their past? goalposts shifting again.

[Mick]

Well I forgive Helen as she is giving Ashleigh compliments....quite a few the last few days. She is licking Ashleigh's pert little rear end since she heard the cheers for her.

I do feel this is the case coupled with the disintegration of Helens cool gang.My impression is that its Helen who has taken the lead in uniting the long termers against the newbies.Under the current circumstances this enables her to integrate with the uncools without losing face.?

Helen in her own way is loyal and protective to those she likes but a grudge bearer and vindictive to those she dislikes and she does not like Ashleigh.

[joeysteele]

Actually Helen was right,Danielle was always around Ashleigh and since Danielle has gone it is Ashleigh who has changed her attitude and more to the point, I admit has been better to watch than when she was with Danielle.

Ashleigh and Danielle did remind me of 2 gossips sitting whispering at other people as they passed or people they just wanted to stick the knife in to.
It was quite a good comparison from Helen and more surprisingly Ashleigh didn't even pull her up on it or even defend Danielle,(her supposed close friend in the house), either.

That speaks volumes to me.

[Tip]

I thought we were to judge people on how they are in the house... not constantly refer to their past? goalposts shifting again.

I'm new to this - I didn't know that there were rules on how you tried to understand people and their behaviour, so I'm not moving any goalposts as I don't have any.

Everyone in there is the sum of their previous experiences and reactions - the way they behave in there is very much to do with their history.

It seems to me that BB selected quite a few of them in there due to their various histories and occupations - so I don't see why that should be ignored.

Seems to me quite a lot of HMs get called up on stuff in their history, past and present outside the house in relation to their behaviour and claims for themselves inside the house. Nearly everyone in there gets judged as to "how real they are" in relation to congruence between what they claim inside and what their outside life appears to have been about.

That doesn't just happen to Helen.

[Mick]

Hi Tip RE your above post well said.As soon as any HM enters the show then if not the press then certainly members of forums such as this will be investigating there back grounds.Looking for skeletons or lies and posting or printing same.

The HMs are all viewers of previous BB shows and will be aware of this and the negative impact it might have on there chances.

[joeysteele]

Most of the attacks on helen have involved very sexually derisory words slut, slag *****, she hasn't done anything in the house to warrant those comments.
That's what I find 'rude' it's nothing to do with her personality and everything to do with her past actions... which I thought we weren't to 'judge' on?
So no it doesn't justify those insults just because she is 'most hated', yes everyone has been rude about a housemate granted but nobody can claim any moral highground by being as insulting or more insulting than helen has ever been can they?

Very well said Kizzy,really glad you pointed that out,

[Kizzy]

I'm new to this - I didn't know that there were rules on how you tried to understand people and their behaviour, so I'm not moving any goalposts as I don't have any.

Everyone in there is the sum of their previous experiences and reactions - the way they behave in there is very much to do with their history.

It seems to me that BB selected quite a few of them in there due to their various histories and occupations - so I don't see why that should be ignored.

Seems to me quite a lot of HMs get called up on stuff in their history, past and present outside the house in relation to their behaviour and claims for themselves inside the house. Nearly everyone in there gets judged as to "how real they are" in relation to congruence between what they claim inside and what their outside life appears to have been about.

That doesn't just happen to Helen.

My comment wasn't to you but just a general comment, it is said a lot in here that you shouldn't judge housemates on their pasts though.
Whether or not it happens to others is irrelevant... if you're going to write a housemate off before they've got through the door then that's wrong imo.
Yes she's a bitch, and gobby and nasty we've seen this.... but, a *****? slag? slut? unjustified remarks as far as I see.

[Kazanne]

Because Helen is a nasty vile bully who invites rudeness in return, whereas someone nice wouldn't.
Plenty of people are nasty about all the other HM's, even the nice ones. I look forward to you preaching to them as well....go forth and spread the gospel...I'll be watching!

Just an observation,WHY are you getting ancy? I believe the truth hurts:laugh:

[Tip]

My comment wasn't to you but just a general comment, it is said a lot in here that you shouldn't judge housemates on their pasts though.
Whether or not it happens to others is irrelevant... if you're going to write a housemate off before they've got through the door then that's wrong imo.
Yes she's a bitch, and gobby and nasty we've seen this.... but, a *****? slag? slut? unjustified remarks as far as I see.



People do get the chance to turn around public perception in the house and sometimes they go in with the main intention of doing that given their history, because they know they are judged on that history.

I think it would be difficult to change the reality of that situation. I don't think people can have it all ways.

If you don't want to be judged on your past - don't go onto BB - seems simple enough to me. Maybe it's not fair - but really on the scales of life's possible unfairness it's nothing much.

[jet]

Most of the attacks on helen have involved very sexually derisory words slut, slag *****, she hasn't done anything in the house to warrant those comments.
That's what I find 'rude' it's nothing to do with her personality and everything to do with her past actions... which I thought we weren't to 'judge' on?
So no it doesn't justify those insults just because she is 'most hated', yes everyone has been rude about a housemate granted but nobody can claim any moral highground by being as insulting or more insulting than helen has ever been can they?

That is just untrue. The majority of people here use words like nasty, vile, etc when describing Helen - words which reflect how she is IN the house. It is rare to see words like slut now used to describe her.

I didn't know Helen from Adam when she came into the house and I couldn't have cared less if she slept with an entire football team. What I don't like is that she came on BB to capitalize on the WR incident and didn't care that it would be dragged up in the tabloids again, opening wounds for Colleen and her family. I thought she was a nice girl at first then she turned out to be a first class bitch as well as a inconsiderate opportunist.

[jet]

Just an observation,WHY are you getting ancy? I believe the truth hurts:laugh:

What does ancy mean? :laugh:

I thought I was being funny and pithy. Ancy sounds really wimpish, whatever it is. I don't wanna be ancy. :laugh:

[Kazanne]

What does ancy mean? :laugh:

I thought I was being funny and pithy. Ancy sounds really wimpish, whatever it is. I don't wanna be ancy. :laugh:

Your getting ancy Jet:joker: really:laugh:

[Ammi]

..only some people call Helen such derogatory names as slut, ***** etc and it has also not been condoned by many people who don’t like Helen as much as those who do because it’s not relevant to apply to her time in BB (imo)...but the term which was applied by a poster wasn’t a name like that, to refer to someone as a cow refers to her character and her behaviour in the house and is much the same as calling her a ‘bitch’, an accurate reference to her character....and I do agree, although it’s a personal thing and not a ‘rule’ as such that behaviour in the house is all that is relevant ..(it is harder in CBB when we have preconceived opinions but I think we all try to be fair..) and Helen does have a life outside the house that is no secret but that doesn’t give her ‘ownership’ on being judged more harshly because terms like ‘spoilt princess/brat/trash’ etc are commonly referred to with Ashleigh and what knowledge does anyone have on her life outside the house to say she’s spoilt and ‘bratty’ which has also been written when in fact she’s mentioned her young life as being ‘hard’ and also mentioned being bullied....’fairness’ should be applied to everyone regardless of our own personal likes and dislikes of people...also isn’t there some twitter stuff about Winston..?..I remember when Alex Rose was in the house and people were bringing up and digging up things that she had done when she was 14yrs old and condemning her character for them...it’s wrong but Helen has no ownership to that, it’s an awful part of BB and one the producers/housemates and fans know will happen.....so as she has a more ‘famous past’ or life, it will inevitably be mentioned by some but thankfully it is only some..and Helen has given us all plenty of ‘talking points’ in the house anyway with her behaviour....and her behaviour is mostly what has been talked about...pages and pages of it..:laugh:...

[Kizzy]

Well as we've seen people can turn things around, jim davidson had an abusive past, him being on opened wounds for linda seeing as he assaulted her now dead husband and he went on to win CBB..... So anything is possible :joker:

[jet]

Your getting ancy Jet:joker: really:laugh:

I'm getting wimpish? :bawling: :conf:

[Ammi]

Well as we've seen people can turn things around, jim davidson had an abusive past, him being on opened wounds for linda seeing as he assaulted her now dead husband and he went on to win CBB..... So anything is possible :joker:


..yeah, I agree, anything is possible and I'm hoping that Helen is learning from this/that's as much as anyone can do really..mind you Jim was quite amiable and not quite so confrontational as Helen..:laugh:...

[Kizzy]

..yeah, I agree, anything is possible and I'm hoping that Helen is learning from this/that's as much as anyone can do really..mind you Jim was quite amiable and not quite so confrontational as Helen..:laugh:...

I didn't see the amiable side... I must have blinked.

[Ammi]

I didn't see the amiable side... I must have blinked.

..well I read about it on the forum anyway so I'm just assuming that it did happen...

[Kazanne]

Helen has a lovely side too her,I think most of us are big enough to admit that,she doesn't pretend to be something she is not.

[abhorson]

It can happen, Alex Reid went into CBB hated and turned it aound to win.

[Kizzy]

..well I read about it on the forum anyway so I'm just assuming that it did happen...

http://31.media.tumblr.com/80675c1dc1d26b35e8afb763d4a31b52/tumblr_msmiiz4QqG1qcismlo4_r1_250.gif

[jet]

Helen has a lovely side too her,I think most of us are big enough to admit that,she doesn't pretend to be something she is not.

That is what people say when they want to excuse someones bad qualities :nono:

[jet]

..only some people call Helen such derogatory names as slut, ***** etc and it has also not been condoned by many people who don’t like Helen as much as those who do because it’s not relevant to apply to her time in BB (imo)...but the term which was applied by a poster wasn’t a name like that, to refer to someone as a cow refers to her character and her behaviour in the house and is much the same as calling her a ‘bitch’, an accurate reference to her character....and I do agree, although it’s a personal thing and not a ‘rule’ as such that behaviour in the house is all that is relevant ..(it is harder in CBB when we have preconceived opinions but I think we all try to be fair..) and Helen does have a life outside the house that is no secret but that doesn’t give her ‘ownership’ on being judged more harshly because terms like ‘spoilt princess/brat/trash’ etc are commonly referred to with Ashleigh and what knowledge does anyone have on her life outside the house to say she’s spoilt and ‘bratty’ which has also been written when in fact she’s mentioned her young life as being ‘hard’ and also mentioned being bullied....’fairness’ should be applied to everyone regardless of our own personal likes and dislikes of people...also isn’t there some twitter stuff about Winston..?..I remember when Alex Rose was in the house and people were bringing up and digging up things that she had done when she was 14yrs old and condemning her character for them...it’s wrong but Helen has no ownership to that, it’s an awful part of BB and one the producers/housemates and fans know will happen.....so as she has a more ‘famous past’ or life, it will inevitably be mentioned by some but thankfully it is only some..and Helen has given us all plenty of ‘talking points’ in the house anyway with her behaviour....and her behaviour is mostly what has been talked about...pages and pages of it..:laugh:...

Another great post Ammi. :love:

[Kizzy]

Well I don't know anyone with no bad qualities... especially these housemates :laugh:

[Ammi]

..it isn't a case of being 'big' though or having anymore insight than anyone else..it's not 'big' to be so harsh on Ashleigh and 'unforgiving' of Ashleigh either or any other housemate/but say nice things about Helen..it's just being the same but with a different housemate..things have been said like...oh, that time she bitched with Danielle in the pod/disgusting/vile person..I remember that/won't forget it..:fist:...yet Ashleigh and Helen seem to be reaching an understanding of each other that they didn't have then, so they're ok with everything ...and the same with the Wayne Rooney thing, so Colleen has 'forgiven' so why can't other people...it just makes no sense to say one thing but not have it apply elsewhere...there is no 'big' here or anything, just differences in perspectives and how we see things and through our own personal experiences what character flaws we see as 'worse' than others etc...

[Ammi]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/80675c1dc1d26b35e8afb763d4a31b52/tumblr_msmiiz4QqG1qcismlo4_r1_250.gif

..I actually don't mind him now tbh in that I haven't heard anything that has given me an impression he didn't learn something by his experience in the house...and it's never too late etc, so hopefully he did...

[chuff me dizzy]

I didn't see the amiable side... I must have blinked.

Me neither I must have blinked the same time as you ,all I saw was an arrogant twat who abused a dead man not there to defend himself

[Kizzy]

..I actually don't mind him now tbh in that I haven't heard anything that has given me an impression he didn't learn something by his experience in the house...and it's never too late etc, so hopefully he did...

I doubt it, and now he feels justified so he won't learn a thing he didn't give a toss.

I don't mind ashleigh actually I think her and helen are quite similar and that's why they clash, helens said it before, they're both bitches.

[Ammi]

I doubt it, and now he feels justified so he won't learn a thing he didn't give a toss.

I don't mind ashleigh actually I think her and helen are quite similar and that's why they clash, helens said it before, they're both bitches.

..I think they're quite different in a lot of ways or their lives are turning out differently atm and I'm not getting at Helen or 'hating' on her but I do think she looks at Ashleigh as someone 'having it easier' than she did in what she's achieved and maybe what Helen had to do in her life/the choices she felt she had at that age/or maybe didn't have family support..?..and there was some resentment, maybe jealousy there in the beginning..?..but that's before they actually gave each other a chance to start to understand each other and I think they're both guilty of judging, so similar in that way....the odd thing is though and why I personally get frustrated with Helen is that she's been hurt so much by being judged herself but is so much like that with others....

[jet]

I doubt it, and now he feels justified so he won't learn a thing he didn't give a toss.

I don't mind ashleigh actually I think her and helen are quite similar and that's why they clash, helens said it before, they're both bitches.

Maybe, but only one of them is a bully and it ain't Ashleigh.

[Kazanne]

[/B]

That is what people say when they want to excuse someones bad qualities :nono:

We all have bad qualities,we just have to deal with them the best way we can,and imo Helen is dealing with hers,so c'mon what does your housmate have to offer?

[Jake.]

Not suprised, it isn't the first ex-housemate who she's slagged off

[Kizzy]

..I think they're quite different in a lot of ways or their lives are turning out differently atm and I'm not getting at Helen or 'hating' on her but I do think she looks at Ashleigh as someone 'having it easier' than she did in what she's achieved and maybe what Helen had to do in her life/the choices she felt she had at that age/or maybe didn't have family support..?..and there was some resentment, maybe jealousy there in the beginning..?..but that's before they actually gave each other a chance to start to understand each other and I think they're both guilty of judging, so similar in that way....the odd thing is though and why I personally get frustrated with Helen is that she's been hurt so much by being judged herself but is so much like that with others....

Well yes no two people can be similar in every way
I don't think it was on such a personal level but maybe they are both alpha types and saw each other as a threat in the competition?
Everyone judges, whether or not you have been judged yourself. She is changing, it may be the warning it might not but there has been a positive change.

[Kizzy]

Maybe, but only one of them is a bully and it ain't Ashleigh.

She was a whispering assassin with both toya and danielle so I don't feel that's strictly true.
Her strategy was just different is all.

[sampvt]

Maybe, but only one of them is a bully and it ain't Ashleigh.

The simple fact that Helens tactics and outward bitchiness is there for all to see, affords her the luxury of being transparent and being transparent is an endearing quality to have.

Ashleigh on the other hand has to go into the DR to unload he game plans, she goes up to the pod to bitch in silence with her little band, formerly Danielle and now Chris. She is the one that makes the bullets and is now letting Chris fire them for her and to prove this point, everyone she befriends gets evicted.

She is the girl at school that talks about people she hates to other girls that she knows will do her dirty work, she is the girl in the street who's mummy lets her stay up late, she is the girl in life who seems to have everything and she is the girl in business that has never been argued with and cant understand how people can be so nasty when they go up against her.

Ashleigh is a nice girl in her own right, she shows that when things are going her way but as soon as she is embroiled in a situation where she is under pressure, the only way she knows how to deal with it is to revert back to tactics that involve others fighting her battles and she keeps electing mammy figures in the house to hide behind.

Watch what happens when she gets under pressure, she runs to her cohorts. normal people get upset and show emotions on their own. Ashleigh gathers an audience then turns on the bitchy tap.

In short, Helen is open, Ashleigh is anything but. Helen wins that battle in my book. Now you choose who is the bully.

[Ammi]

Well yes no two people can be similar in every way
I don't think it was on such a personal level but maybe they are both alpha types and saw each other as a threat in the competition?
Everyone judges, whether or not you have been judged yourself. She is changing, it may be the warning it might not but there has been a positive change.


..I would say in general that the females have been the alphas of the house this year and much stronger characters than the males and of the females after Toya and Pauline left, Helen and Ashleigh have been the strongest characters and both 'fighters and survivors' so I would say that's probably true to some extent....

[Jake.]

The simple fact that Helens tactics and outward bitchiness is there for all to see, affords her the luxury of being transparent and being transparent is an endearing quality to have.


No it isn't.. People use the 'telling it how it is' card to be as disgustingly rude and brash as they like, not caring for how they make others feel

[jet]

The simple fact that Helens tactics and outward bitchiness is there for all to see, affords her the luxury of being transparent and being transparent is an endearing quality to have.

Ashleigh on the other hand has to go into the DR to unload he game plans, she goes up to the pod to bitch in silence with her little band, formerly Danielle and now Chris. She is the one that makes the bullets and is now letting Chris fire them for her and to prove this point, everyone she befriends gets evicted.

She is the girl at school that talks about people she hates to other girls that she knows will do her dirty work, she is the girl in the street who's mummy lets her stay up late, she is the girl in life who seems to have everything and she is the girl in business that has never been argued with and cant understand how people can be so nasty when they go up against her.

Ashleigh is a nice girl in her own right, she shows that when things are going her way but as soon as she is embroiled in a situation where she is under pressure, the only way she knows how to deal with it is to revert back to tactics that involve others fighting her battles and she keeps electing mammy figures in the house to hide behind.

Watch what happens when she gets under pressure, she runs to her cohorts. normal people get upset and show emotions on their own. Ashleigh gathers an audience then turns on the bitchy tap.

In short, Helen is open, Ashleigh is anything but. Helen wins that battle in my book. Now you choose who is the bully.

BB already did that - Helen.
I don't recognize the Ashleigh you describe, but then its only your opinion which of course you are entitled to.

[jet]

No it isn't.. People use the 'telling it how it is' card to be as disgustingly rude and brash as they like, not caring for how they make others feel

It's surprisingly seen as an asset, depending on who does it of course. :rolleyes:

[sampvt]

..I would say in general that the females have been the alphas of the house this year and much stronger characters than the males and of the females after Toya and Pauline left, Helen and Ashleigh have been the strongest characters and both 'fighters and survivors' so I would say that's probably true to some extent....

Being an absolute bitch does not give you an alpha badge. An Alpha figure is respected and trusted. Neither of them are alphas. The alpha in that house is the person everyone goes to when they need advice and need to talk to when problems arise. The alpha is the person who has a seat or place where he is found and can be consulted. The alpha is the person that stays calm under pressure, the alpha is the person that holds an audience and when he leaves, they all leave. In closing an alpha does not have to be the head of the gang, an alpha is the person who everyone feels comfortable with.

There is only one person that fits that bill and its Ash. He is a silent warrior and has the attention and love of all in there, he does not need to be screaming all the time. He is the alpha and of that there is no dispute. Helen looks up to him.

If you want confirmation of that fact, look at who challenged him yesterday when he was trying to be mad. They all just laughed nervously.

[Ammi]

The simple fact that Helens tactics and outward bitchiness is there for all to see, affords her the luxury of being transparent and being transparent is an endearing quality to have.

Ashleigh on the other hand has to go into the DR to unload he game plans, she goes up to the pod to bitch in silence with her little band, formerly Danielle and now Chris. She is the one that makes the bullets and is now letting Chris fire them for her and to prove this point, everyone she befriends gets evicted.

She is the girl at school that talks about people she hates to other girls that she knows will do her dirty work, she is the girl in the street who's mummy lets her stay up late, she is the girl in life who seems to have everything and she is the girl in business that has never been argued with and cant understand how people can be so nasty when they go up against her.

Ashleigh is a nice girl in her own right, she shows that when things are going her way but as soon as she is embroiled in a situation where she is under pressure, the only way she knows how to deal with it is to revert back to tactics that involve others fighting her battles and she keeps electing mammy figures in the house to hide behind.

Watch what happens when she gets under pressure, she runs to her cohorts. normal people get upset and show emotions on their own. Ashleigh gathers an audience then turns on the bitchy tap.

In short, Helen is open, Ashleigh is anything but. Helen wins that battle in my book. Now you choose who is the bully.


..in a one to one though Sam, Helen's bitchiness isn't always there for everyone to see, she can have a conversation with someone, as can Ashleigh and they can both come to understandings of each other but Helen when she verbally abususes always has done it with a 'pack' behind her so that's not 'brave' and honest is it..?..bitching on any degree does not overstep any social boundaries with someone and become personal in the way that thinking you have the right to be offensive and abusive to someone's face does....hmmm, I'm trying to think of an analogy..with comedians/the controversial ones, their topics are of a lot of things that some would deem as 'offensive material' and others wouldn't..?...but if they were to be specific and offend a specific person, name that person type thing...?..then I think most of us would say...too far...and when someone is arrogant enough to feel that it's their right to abuse someone/name call to their face then how more personal can you get and it crosses social boundaries....

[Kizzy]

No it isn't.. People use the 'telling it how it is' card to be as disgustingly rude and brash as they like, not caring for how they make others feel

Oh don't I know that! :laugh:

[Ammi]

Being an absolute bitch does not give you an alpha badge. An Alpha figure is respected and trusted. Neither of them are alphas. The alpha in that house is the person everyone goes to when they need advice and need to talk to when problems arise. The alpha is the person who has a seat or place where he is found and can be consulted. The alpha is the person that stays calm under pressure, the alpha is the person that holds an audience and when he leaves, they all leave. In closing an alpha does not have to be the head of the gang, an alpha is the person who everyone feels comfortable with.

There is only one person that fits that bill and its Ash. He is a silent warrior and has the attention and love of all in there, he does not need to be screaming all the time. He is the alpha and of that there is no dispute. Helen looks up to him.

If you want confirmation of that fact, look at who challenged him yesterday when he was trying to be mad. They all just laughed nervously.


..I haven't seen anyone fill the true alpha role this year as such..maybe Pauline did in their eyes when she was there ..they didn't see her stifling of them but I think the 'alpha' this year because of the hostility of the house has been more who the 'group' feel protected by/their spokesperson and that's Helen...it's not a true alpha, although protection is a big part of an alpha..protect and provide...

[Patricia4]

He's OK is Ash but he's had no reason to get mad because he's got gob hole Helen on his apron strings twenty four hours she protects him all the time.
Helen slags everyone off given the chance.

[Kizzy]

..in a one to one though Sam, Helen's bitchiness isn't always there for everyone to see, she can have a conversation with someone, as can Ashleigh and they can both come to understandings of each other but Helen when she verbally abususes always has done it with a 'pack' behind her so that's not 'brave' and honest is it..?..bitching on any degree does not overstep any social boundaries with someone and become personal in the way that thinking you have the right to be offensive and abusive to someone's face does....hmmm, I'm trying to think of an analogy..with comedians/the controversial ones, their topics are of a lot of things that some would deem as 'offensive material' and others wouldn't..?...but if they were to be specific and offend a specific person, name that person type thing...?..then I think most of us would say...too far...and when someone is arrogant enough to feel that it's their right to abuse someone/name call to their face then how more personal can you get and it crosses social boundaries....

What about katie price?... she's been named in a 'comedic' sense and that was accepted as it's her and as it's a socially acceptable norm apparently to be as derogatory as you like about her seemingly.

[Jake.]

Oh don't I know that! :laugh:

Do you? :laugh:

[Ammi]

What about katie price?... she's been named in a 'comedic' sense and that was accepted as it's her and as it's a socially acceptable norm apparently to be as derogatory as you like about her seemingly.

..that's what I said though, it's not sociably acceptable to feel you can insult/offend anyone personally, that was just an analogy of something Helen does in feeling it's ok to 'say it to someone's face', when how more personal can you get than doing that..?...an any social environment there are boundaries and it's never deemed as a 'good trait' to insult someone and name call to their face...but bitching doesn't overstep that, whatever our personal feelings are about bitching....

[Kizzy]

Do you? :laugh:

I do :laugh:

[Kizzy]

..that's what I said though, it's not sociably acceptable to feel you can insult/offend anyone personally, that was just an analogy of something Helen does in feeling it's ok to 'say it to someone's face', when how more personal can you get than doing that..?...an any social environment there are boundaries and it's never deemed as a 'good trait' to insult someone and name call to their face...but bitching doesn't overstep that, whatever our personal feelings are about bitching....

'if they were to be specific and offend a specific person, name that person type thing...?..then I think most of us would say...too far...'

They don't though, with some people they just don't.. like katie helen is given flack because it's acceptable and in a way expected because of the same perception of 'morality'.

She could be forgiven for being bitchy, in your face and aggressive if it wasn't for this added preconception.

[Ammi]

'if they were to be specific and offend a specific person, name that person type thing...?..then I think most of us would say...too far...'

They don't though, with some people they just don't.. like katie helen is given flack because it's acceptable and in a way expected because of the same perception of 'morality'.

She could be forgiven for being bitchy, in your face and aggressive if it wasn't for this added preconception.

..sorry, you've lost me a bit..do you mean in how she's been perceived in the public and what the press/media have said in regards to Wayne and Colleen..?..I was referring to how she insults and offends/name calls in the house and when they hadn't done anything to her except maybe not approve of something she did or how she was acting....

[Amy Jade]

Helen was right though, she could have said much worse and still been right.

[Kizzy]

..sorry, you've lost me a bit..do you mean in how she's been perceived in the public and what the press/media have said in regards to Wayne and Colleen..?..I was referring to how she insults and offends/name calls in the house and when they hadn't done anything to her except maybe not approve of something she did or how she was acting....

Either or... there are some that it's just ok to knock and it rarely ever gets said it's 'too far'.
I was referring to how the media/public/forum react to katie/helen.( not all granted)
Helen wasn't the only one to make reactionary statements as pauline/toya did also and they fuelled each other to some extent.
Now they've gone there's been less aggression, still bitching obviously but that to be expected surely?

[user104658]

She's not wrong, but then, it is a bit rich coming from Helen who has dragged down multiple other housemates... To the extent that earlier on, a lot of the time her FRIENDS were even commenting on how much easier / nicer / happier it was whenever there was a party of whatever that she wasn't involved in :joker:. Most of them have even mentioned holding back on many occasions / trading on eggshells for fear that "it'll just kick off" with Helen.

[sampvt]

Helen hasn't reigned it in because she has been warned. She is no longer challenged and without an opponent, a fight is irrelevant. Her opponents now don't fight with her to her face, she (Ashleigh) does it behind her back and if you don't know people are talking about you, its a bit hard to go after them isn't it.

[poppsywoppsy]

You don't understand..... why are you allowed to be rude about helen but helen isn't allowed to be rude about ex housemates?
Whichever way you twist it it's a double standard.

Because they can't answer back

Helen is consistently rude about others but turns into a nasty woman or cry baby when it is reversed.

I really think she is the nastiest housemates apart from Pauline.

[sampvt]

Because they can't answer back

Helen is consistently rude about others but turns into a nasty woman or cry baby when it is reversed.

I really think she is the nastiest housemates apart from Pauline.

Im following this but your logic is flawed. Helen spits venom when she has things to say. Her tears were tears of frustration and guilt, not nastiness. I think you are twisting her tears into something that suits your aims.

[Amy Jade]

Because they can't answer back

Well Helen can't answer you back either.

[Ammi]

Either or... there are some that it's just ok to knock and it rarely ever gets said it's 'too far'.
I was referring to how the media/public/forum react to katie/helen.( not all granted)
Helen wasn't the only one to make reactionary statements as pauline/toya did also and they fuelled each other to some extent.
Now they've gone there's been less aggression, still bitching obviously but that to be expected surely?

..hmm, that's done with a lot of celebrities..Miley Cyrus seems to be another and then there is Tulisa with how she looks now and any surgery or enhancement she's had done, because she's not liked then it's ok..?../she's not 'human'..?,,and I don't agree with that either/the remarks...for me the biggest one on BB this year anyway was Biannca in terms of criticism she got on forums and social sites etc because she used certain terminology, showed her body and was very 'in you face' but not in an aggressive way, she had dreadful names cast at her of slut/slag/*****/disgusting/vile etc and in the short time she was there, probably as much as Helen has...and I don't agree with that at all but it has to be said that people who referred to Biannca with such names are objecting to Helen being referred to as the same when two wrongs etc..they're both not good to do....and it's the same for Helen when she insults and name calls people in the house, it's not an admirable trait, it's wrong..in no social environment is it right to do that and cross that boundary...and that's why many don't admire Helen...and also why they don't see the bitching by Ashleigh in the same vein because that doesn't cross any boundaries in the same way...

[Kizzy]

..hmm, that's done with a lot of celebrities..Miley Cyrus seems to be another and then there is Tulisa with how she looks now and any surgery or enhancement she's had done, because she's not liked then it's ok..?../she's not 'human'..?,,and I don't agree with that either/the remarks...for me the biggest one on BB this year anyway was Biannca in terms of criticism she got on forums and social sites etc because she used certain terminology, showed her body and was very 'in you face' but not in an aggressive way, she had dreadful names cast at her of slut/slag/*****/disgusting/vile etc and in the short time she was there, probably as much as Helen has...and I don't agree with that at all but it has to be said that people who referred to Biannca with such names are objecting to Helen being referred to as the same when two wrongs etc..they're both not good to do....and it's the same for Helen when she insults and name calls people in the house, it's not an admirable trait, it's wrong..in no social environment is it right to do that and cross that boundary...and that's why many don't admire Helen...and also why they don't see the bitching by Ashleigh in the same vein because that doesn't cross any boundaries in the same way...

It isn't ok no they are two other examples I guess.
I agree the slut shaming of biancca was brutal I can't think who supported helen and disliked biancca but they might have done even though they got the same labels only biancca behaved erm... provocatively in the house.
At the moment she is poitive as I'm sure helen was initially but i'm really hoping that the negative press and attention BB brings doesn't have an impact on bianccas er... vivaciousness.
Helen has insulted and name called yes, it's not an admirable trait no but it is what it is all bluster and a knee jerk reaction. I don't get the 'in no social environment is that acceptable'... you can't toss 17 volatile personalities, total strangers in a house with no outside contact for months and expect there to be no fallout..
Ashleighs bitching may not be seen as in the same league not sure why though... it's the same only not as loud.
What 'social boundries' are there to cross apart from some snobbish misconception that it's ok to whisper bitch and collude in corners but not express your inner frustration audibly?