'Date rape is bad, stranger rape is worse'

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/29/article-2709730-201A24D300000578-969_634x438.jpg



Richard Dawkins sparks outrage during Twitter debate

He went on to write: ‘Mild date rape is bad. Violent date rape is worse. Is it really so hard to understand that that doesn’t constitute endorsement of either?’


How do you see these statements?




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709730/Richard-Dawkins-sparks-outrage-Twitter-debate-saying-date-rape-bad-stranger-rape-worse.html#ixzz38xA9uYju


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/29/1406658088619_Image_galleryImage_Television_Progra mme_Beau.JPG

[Shaun]

he's such a pointless twat.

[Niamh.]

Obviously posted to cause some sort of a reaction? Seems a bit unnecessary

[Ramsay]

like what is the actual point of tweeting this? like niamh said, it's obviously to try to get a reaction. i usually like him but ****ing hell :laugh:

[mooo]

He knew this would happen why would you write that on twitter??...

[Niamh.]

He knew this would happen why would you write that on twitter??...

I think you answered your own question there :hehe:

[arista]

Obviously posted to cause some sort of a reaction? Seems a bit unnecessary


yes get him on question time in Sept

[Livia]

I agree... mild is always better than violent, no matter what you're talking about.

However, he was making this point simply to imply he's deeper thinking and more intelligent than anyone else. Which makes him a dick.

[arista]

I hope he goes live on Ch4HD News tonight
he has been on there many times

[mooo]

I think you answered your own question there :hehe:

But why would you want so much backlash? :conf:

[Niamh.]

But why would you want so much backlash? :conf:

He seems to thrive on that :shrug:

[Nedusa]

Rape is rape is rape, adding the word mild is inane in the extreme. I'm surprised such a supposed learned man could tweet such rubbish.

Trying to be intellectual and ending up looking like a twat.




.

[MTVN]

I actually sorta agree with him, I don't know why its accepted that there are different degrees when it comes to killing someone but everyone gets outraged when its said about rape :shrug: Dawkins is a bit of a tit in general though

[Crimson Dynamo]

he was trying to demonstrate that accepting degrees does not constitute endorsement

[Shaun]

However, he was making this point simply to imply he's deeper thinking and more intelligent than anyone else. Which makes him a dick.

Is basically my problem with it, I mean I guess he has a point if you want to go into the semantics of two different, hypothetical rapes. If that's the sort of person he is, woo, dispel those god-lovers Dawkins!!!

[coffee]

I know sooooo many people who don't believe date rape is real and it makes me very upset :'(

[lostalex]

reminds me of George Galloway when defending julian assange saying "it's not rape to have sex with a sleeping women, it's just bad sexual etiquette". so having sex with an unconscious woman isn't rape according to the far left lol. that's so ****ed up.

[the truth]

reminds me of George Galloway when defending julian assange saying "it's not rape to have sex with a sleeping women, it's just bad sexual etiquette". so having sex with an unconscious woman isn't rape according to the far left lol. that's so ****ed up.

there are varying degrees of criminality for different types and stages of rape, so your black and white viewpoint is not only wrong but dangerously wrong. if sex is consensual and goes on 5 seconds longer than 1 perosn wanted? wheres the line? is that the same as smashing a person with a crow bar , dragging them to the woods, raping them and leaving them for dead? erm no. now try and find some balance to your statements instead of false outrage

[Marsh.]

He's stating the obvious IMO, but doing it in an effort to wind people up and appear intelligent. Twat as always.

[the truth]

dawkins is a 24 carrot attention seeking dangerous twat of the lowest order. hes a mocker a taunter a cynic and a failed bitter scientist hell bent on taking a shortcut to celebdom

[armand.kay]

What the actual ****:laugh:

[user104658]

I have literally no idea why he bothers, if he hasn't figured out in 73 years that the vast majority of people are terminally and incurably stupid, then he isn't as clever as he thinks he is.

He also clearly hasn't been on Twitter for very long, or paying very much attention:

"What I have learned today is that there are people on Twitter who think in absolutist terms, to an extent I wouldn’t have believed possible."


...really? Really, though? Wouldn't have believed possible? It basically describes the entirety of Twitter quite succinctly. A massive ****-filled nest of squawking *******.

[Kizzy]

God forbid (lol) anyone should actually make anyone think for themselves.....

[the truth]

Rape is rape is rape, adding the word mild is inane in the extreme. I'm surprised such a supposed learned man could tweet such rubbish.

Trying to be intellectual and ending up looking like a twat.




.

its all different....there are a vast number of different situations and levels of criminality, so youre wrong

[the truth]

I have literally no idea why he bothers, if he hasn't figured out in 73 years that the vast majority of people are terminally and incurably stupid, then he isn't as clever as he thinks he is.

He also clearly hasn't been on Twitter for very long, or paying very much attention:

"What I have learned today is that there are people on Twitter who think in absolutist terms, to an extent I wouldn’t have believed possible."


...really? Really, though? Wouldn't have believed possible? It basically describes the entirety of Twitter quite succinctly. A massive ****-filled nest of squawking *******.

absolutist terms, i like that and may recycle old chap.....absolutist terms is one way to describe many modern problems....since new labour destroyed our country, conversation is pretty much illegal and discussing controversial subjects in a public place is a no go. if you did youd soon be physically attacked by an absolutionist

[lostalex]

there are varying degrees of criminality for different types and stages of rape, so your black and white viewpoint is not only wrong but dangerously wrong. if sex is consensual and goes on 5 seconds longer than 1 perosn wanted? wheres the line? is that the same as smashing a person with a crow bar , dragging them to the woods, raping them and leaving them for dead? erm no. now try and find some balance to your statements instead of false outrage

if it goes on 1 second longer than wanted than it's just as bad as any other kind of rape. and dawkins argument doesn't even make sense. i would argue that date rape is actually worse than being raped by a stranger because it's being perpetrated by someone you trust.

just out of curiosity "the truth" how long are you willing to be raped for before YOU call it rape? how long can i **** your ass against your will before YOU consider it rape? i can **** you for 5 seconds according to you and i'm not a rapist? well get over here then. i could use those 5 seconds.

[Marsh.]

if it goes on 1 second longer than wanted than it's just as bad

Harsh. Do they not get a couple of seconds to pull out?

[Nedusa]

its all different....there are a vast number of different situations and levels of criminality, so youre wrong

It's you're wrong not youre wrong actually.

And my point agrees with your posts so not sure why you say I am wrong ??




.

[GypsyGoth]

Just because it's called date rape, it could still do more damage to you than getting raped at knife point.

[coffee]

I wish date rape was called something else, I thin a lot of people don't know what it is or don't think it's as serious as RAPE. I feel like a lot of people think it's dumb and girls wanting attention or lying about an ex boyfriend or guy who went on a date with them raped them and it's not fair. I've actually had a friend of mine who is a girl tell me that she doesn't believe girls were actually raped by a guy she liked her words were something like "I think the guy patched her after it and she got ragin and told everyone she was raped cos she actually just got pumped & dumped" It's so sad that people think this way :/

[Kizzy]

I see that coffee, and the question will be at what point did it not become consensual,
Like the song goes 'you know you want it'... is it a justification for date rape?
When it boils down to it that view really is just his opinion, it's quite insensitive to those who have been raped to put them on some sliding scale, but it does make you think.

[Northern Monkey]

He's stating the obvious IMO, but doing it in an effort to wind people up and appear intelligent. Twat as always.

This tbh.Why even put crap like that on Twitter.Twat.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This tbh.Why even put crap like that on Twitter.Twat.

what do you want him to put on Twitter

"alrite m8s im fecking battrd an getttin a curry. laterz"

?

[the truth]

if it goes on 1 second longer than wanted than it's just as bad as any other kind of rape. and dawkins argument doesn't even make sense. i would argue that date rape is actually worse than being raped by a stranger because it's being perpetrated by someone you trust.

just out of curiosity "the truth" how long are you willing to be raped for before YOU call it rape? how long can i **** your ass against your will before YOU consider it rape? i can **** you for 5 seconds according to you and i'm not a rapist? well get over here then. i could use those 5 seconds.

if i permitted you to penetrate my ass and you did so and after say 20 minutes of ass shagging i scream no , if you went on 1 second after i said no, should you then be sent to prison for 20 years like a rapist whos killed

[Kizzy]

if i permitted you to penetrate my ass and you did so and after say 20 minutes of ass shagging i scream no , if you went on 1 second after i said no, should you then be sent to prison for 20 years like a rapist whos killed

I don't think this homo erotic scenario was part of the profs comparison was it?

[GypsyGoth]

Yea the truth, just ask Alex for a date, the worst that can happen is that he'll say no.

[Marsh.]

if i permitted you to penetrate my ass and you did so and after say 20 minutes of ass shagging i scream no , if you went on 1 second after i said no, should you then be sent to prison for 20 years like a rapist whos killed

:joker: I love this forum. Barmy people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Dawkins should be applauded for bringing many people to atheism around the world. if more governments made this a priority there would be less problems from ignorant superstition.

[the truth]

Dawkins should be applauded for bringing many people to atheism around the world. if more governments made this a priority there would be less problems from ignorant superstition.

athesists are even more ignorant on average

[the truth]

:joker: I love this forum. Barmy people.

yep you sure are

[Northern Monkey]

what do you want him to put on Twitter

"alrite m8s im fecking battrd an getttin a curry. laterz"

?

He just makes himself look like an attention seeking twat putting stuff like that on there.

[Kizzy]

I suppose that's science for you everything has a logical order and is measurable, he's taking the human element out of it... which if it was an experiment and he was following a formula would unfortunately be flawed.

[lostalex]

Harsh. Do they not get a couple of seconds to pull out?

date rape is not just someone not pulling out as fast as they can. it's actually offensive for you to try to characterize it that way.

[the truth]

date rape is not just someone not pulling out as fast as they can. it's actually offensive for you to try to characterize it that way.

youre feigning offence as usual

[Marsh.]

date rape is not just someone not pulling out as fast as they can. it's actually offensive for you to try to characterize it that way.

:facepalm: That's not what I said.

Tell me I'm offensive when you learn to read.

[the truth]

date rape is not just someone not pulling out as fast as they can. it's actually offensive for you to try to characterize it that way.

you also ducked my question in rather cowardly fashion

[AnnieK]

Date rape is just as violating as stranger rape and often more difficult for the victim to prove as it comes down to one parties word against the other. Obviously violent rape is horrific and it's often difficult to find the person who did it but if they did leave any evidence...DNA etc it's easier to prove in court than a date rape where the parties are known to each other due to the issue of consent. I went through a court case with a member of my family who's life was effectively ruined by the court case....she has serious trust issues now, emotional issues and will actively advise people not to report it to the police as it is so difficult to prove.

[the truth]

Date rape is just as violating as stranger rape and often more difficult for the victim to prove as it comes down to one parties word against the other. Obviously violent rape is horrific and it's often difficult to find the person who did it but if they did leave any evidence...DNA etc it's easier to prove in court than a date rape where the parties are known to each other due to the issue of consent. I went through a court case with a member of my family who's life was effectively ruined by the court case....she has serious trust issues now, emotional issues and will actively advise people not to report it to the police as it is so difficult to prove.

every single situation is completely different and there are different levels of criminality to each and even rape....to say all are the same as alex says is utter nonsense

[lostalex]

every single situation is completely different and there are different levels of criminality to each and even rape....to say all are the same as alex says is utter nonsense

I didn't say it's the same, I said it's just as bad. It's like arguing who has it worse, blacks or gays.

[the truth]

I didn't say it's the same, I said it's just as bad. It's like arguing who has it worse, blacks or gays.

so have anal sex consensually if your partmer says stop and you dont instantly stop and take 3 seconds to stop, that rape is just as bad as mugging someone on the street, hitting them over the head and dragging them into the woods to be gand raped and left for dead? according to your logic these 2 incidents are just as bad as each other and exactly the same? ???????????? really???

[lostalex]

so have anal sex consensually if your partmer says stop and you dont instantly stop and take 3 seconds to stop, that rape is just as bad as mugging someone on the street, hitting them over the head and dragging them into the woods to be gand raped and left for dead? according to your logic these 2 incidents are just as bad as each other and exactly the same? ???????????? really???

maybe you should ask the victims of date rape and not me. ask them dude. maybe you should spend less time defending rape as if it's just some kind of ACCIDENT that happens, and talk to actual victims. The way you are responding in this thread makes it sound like rape is sometimes just an ACCIDENT.

[Kizzy]

maybe you should ask the victims of date rape and not me. ask them dude. maybe you should spend less time defending rape as if it's just some kind of ACCIDENT that happens, and talk to actual victims. The way you are responding in this thread makes it sound like rape is sometimes just an ACCIDENT.

No, this is exactly what the professor means. by stating that there is varying degrees of violence attached to rape that is not an endorsement of rape in any degree.

[lostalex]

No, this is exactly what the professor means. by stating that there is varying degrees of violence attached to rape that is not an endorsement of rape in any degree.

except that it is, because it's basically excusing some types of rape as "not that bad" Think of how much worse it would be! Some rape victims weren't raped THAT BADLY!

he doesn't get that his words are basically saying, sometimes rape "isn't THAT bad". maybe we shouldn't use the word rape, cause sometimes guys just ****ed a girl against her will, but he didn't beat the hell out of her, or stab her, so its not THAT bad.

[Kizzy]

except that it is, because it's basically excusing some types of rape as "not that bad" Think of how much worse it would be! Some rape victims weren't raped THAT BADLY!

he doesn't get that his words are basically saying, sometimes rape "isn't THAT bad".

It's still bad... that's never been in dispute.
Dr micheal Stone devised a scale of evil for psychopaths from 1-22, if it is possible to 'rank' them why not rapists and peadophiles?

[lostalex]

It's still bad... that's never been in dispute.
Dr micheal Stone devised a scale of evil for psychopaths from 1-22, if it is possible to 'rank' them why not rapists and peadophiles?

the point is everyone is an individual, and were victimized as individuals. who the **** is richard dawkins to judge how bad a rape is? or tell anyone how much of a victim they are?

I'm an athiest, but Richard Dawkins doesn't speak for me.

[Kizzy]

Logically I think his theory only makes sense if you take the victim out of the equation and are left with the rapist and the question of intent.

[lostalex]

Logically I think his theory only makes sense if you take the victim out of the equation and are left with the rapist and the question of intent.

well said Kizzy. What does it say about him that he only sees the crime and not the victim? That he can see the impact of a crime only as the act itself, and not the impact on the victim. He doesn't seem to have any concept of people as individuals, or that you can commit the same exact crime on 50 different people and it will have 50 different impacts, because only Richard Dawkins exists in Richard Dawkins head. He's a prick.

[Kizzy]

well said Kizzy. What does it say about him that he only sees the crime and not the victim? That he can see the impact of a crime only as the act itself, and not the impact on the victim. He doesn't seem to have any concept of people as individuals, or that you can commit the same exact crime on 50 different people and it will have 50 different impacts, because only Richard Dawkins exists in Richard Dawkins head. He's a prick.

To be fair to him lots of people do that, criminologists do this as do those who work in law I suppose.

[the truth]

the point is everyone is an individual, and were victimized as individuals. who the **** is richard dawkins to judge how bad a rape is? or tell anyone how much of a victim they are?

I'm an athiest, but Richard Dawkins doesn't speak for me.

who are you to judge? who is anyone?

[the truth]

maybe you should ask the victims of date rape and not me. ask them dude. maybe you should spend less time defending rape as if it's just some kind of ACCIDENT that happens, and talk to actual victims. The way you are responding in this thread makes it sound like rape is sometimes just an ACCIDENT.

no im asking you dude :nono: