How can Kellie Maloney

[warrenhill]

Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

[Josy]

She identifies as a woman, that's why.

[Denver]

She is undergoing transgender operations its not a go to the hospital one day and its all sorted kinda thing

[Marsh.]

:umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

Yes but its a woman pig in a male pig body.

(maybe a pig is not a good animal analogy here..)

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Apart from hormones has Kellie had anything done yet ie breast implants?

It looks like she may have had her nose and chin done to look more womanly.

BTW op the pig analogy probably isn't the best thing to use.

[warrenhill]

Yes but its a woman pig in a male pig body.

(maybe a pig is not a good animal analogy here..)


Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

Helen got away with it mind

[JoshBB]

Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

I'd be very careful as to not offend the Transgender community. Kellie identifies as a woman, therefore she is a woman. Simple as that. The smug face on the end of your post says it all really.

[Cal.]

Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

Um, maybe because she's a woman? :conf: Mess.

[JoshBB]

Um, maybe because she's a woman? :conf: Mess.

Exactly. If gender identity isn't enough for you OP, she has also had a sex change.

[Kazanne]

She identifies as a woman, that's why.

Has he/she still got her/his bits?

[Jack_]

She identities as a woman, you use female pronouns. It's as simple as calling someone a name they wish to be known as.

Anyone that can't do this is either slow on the uptake or it says a lot about them as a person. That's all there is to it.

[JoshBB]

Has he/she still got her/his bits?

she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

[warrenhill]

Exactly. If gender identity isn't enough for you OP, she has also had a sex change.



No he hasnt.....

Hes poped a few pills and put a dress on .....

Just because you say you want to be a "women" doesnt mean to say you can be.

Maybe next time im getting car insurance i should say im a women and go to one of those companies that give big discounts for lady drivers (god knows why..:laugh:)

[Jack_]

Has he/she still got her/his bits?

What business is that of yours, mine or anyone else's?

She wishes to be known as a woman, so you call her a woman. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Oh I forget - it's not, some people just want to show themselves up.

[Kazanne]

she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

Oh right,thankyou Josh,I wasn't sure tbh.:wavey:

[daniel-lewis-1985]

she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

No she doesn't she is pre op.

I think that's a few years down the line yet don't transsexuals have to live as a woman for atleast 3/5 years to make sure they are making the right choice before the surgery will be performed?

Its only been 14 months since he started living as a woman I believe.

[Locke.]

If they have a dick it's a man, if they don't they're not. And apparently they do, so..

[Marsh.]

No she doesn't she is post op.

*pre op.

[Kazanne]

What business is that of yours, mine or anyone else's?

She wishes to be known as a woman, so you call her a woman. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Oh I forget - it's not, some people just want to show themselves up.

Bloody hell Jack calm down ,you'll be having a heart attack before your 20,I asked a question and it was answered so no need for you to get on your high horse,people are bound to be curious,lots of questions have been asked about various housemates,chill..

[warrenhill]

May i just add...

I have nothing against Kellie or the transsexual community....

It was just a comment as to why kellie can be classified as a women for betting purposes.

[Rob!]

This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

*pre op.

Oops my mistake.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

Is that supposed to be a pun lol.

[JoshBB]

No she doesn't she is pre op.

I think that's a few years down the line yet don't transsexuals have to live as a woman for atleast 3/5 years to make sure they are making the right choice before the surgery will be performed?

Its only been 14 months since he started living as a woman I believe.

My mistake then. I haven't done a lot of research on her.

If they have a dick it's a man, if they don't they're not. And apparently they do, so..

That's not the case. If someone wants to be known as a woman then they are, by legal definition gender is described as:

"The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones):"

[Benjamin]

This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

I wouldn't call it ignorance for most. Some people genuinely don;t know or have never encountered situations like this before. I have no idea what life is like for an Innuit for example, doesn't make me ignorant, I just have never encountered one before.

People are going to ask questions, which is good. Means they will gain more insight into things.

[Rob!]

Is that supposed to be a pun lol.

No :joker:

[JoshBB]

May i just add...

I have nothing against Kellie or the transsexual community....

It was just a comment as to why kellie can be classified as a women for betting purposes.

I don't think it's for betting purposes. She hasn't stuck out as a favourite yet.

[warrenhill]

I don't think it's for betting purposes. She hasn't stuck out as a favourite yet.



No i want to back the "Top Woman" market and she is the 5/6 fav.....


http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?cb=108816943976998329

[JoshBB]

No i want to back the "Top Woman" market and she is the 5/6 fav.....


http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?cb=108816943976998329

I meant in terms of the forum, not betting odds. They aren't very reliable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you did not chose to be the way you are then you cannot judge you can just support

[Jack_]

I get you weren't trying to be rude Kazanne so I apologise for being snappy, but there's a lot of misunderstanding with those types of questions and most people don't actually realise how potentially rude they're being. Curiosity is important, but so is decorum

Things you wanted to know about trans people and were rude enough to ask
Trans people are asked offensive questions about their private lives that would never be asked of others. It's time to stop the talk of 'real' names and body parts

I would predict that every trans person who has ever come out has been asked a variation on the question, "But what was your old name?" Or the ruder version, "But what's your real name?" Or the slightly bizarre, "But what was your birth name?" I'd like to know how many of us are born with names.

The problem is signified by the "but", stated or implicit. It implies that I'm lying or at best being evasive. The questioner becomes a detective and with me as their case study. It is simple: my name is my name, as "real" as yours. Case closed.

Perhaps it's less offensive than a question about one's body or sex life, but the name question is the tip of the inappropriate iceberg. Below the surface, ready to spew forth, lies: "Do you have a penis?"

I am attempting here to set some ground rules for those of you who are not trans – ie those who are cisgender – who, perhaps with innocent intentions, ask these dreaded questions.

You may not think you are one of these people, so I have a quick test. Were you raised in a society that assigns gender, as well as sex, at birth? Hint: the answer is yes. Does that society label gender nonconformity "weird"? Hint: unless you are Native American and were raised knowing about two-spirited people, the answer is also yes.

If you answered yes to both of these, there are two likely possibilities. First, you've never knowingly met a trans person. In this case, you're just yet to realise that you're this kind of person. I know from experience that, even for sensitive, progressive souls the urge to ask about "real names" and intimate body parts is as strong as the urge to sneeze.

The second possibility is that you have met a trans person and that you pried and got away with it. This, my friend, is because you have overwhelming privilege in that situation – the privilege of mainstream society telling you that you are normal and that the trans person is an oddity to be examined. It's intimidating, as a supposed oddity, to stand up for yourself.

Months after I changed my name, an old university friend wrote on my Facebook wall: "Hey [old name], this is [old name], right?"

It felt as if I'd woken up at school with no clothes on.

Maybe he missed the widely shared and commented-on status update where, rather than come out to each individual, I explained in one fell swoop that I was changing my name and now going by male pronouns. Even so, the tone felt almost belligerent.

Being trans has taught me to tread more lightly than my old friend. I know not to assume a person's gender simply because I know what their hair, face or body looks like, even if I've known them for years. It's easy to do this when you know how much it hurts to be misidentified. There are mutual rewards for exercising a little humility when it comes to making others feel comfortable in a society that generally denies comfort to anyone different.

"This is [old name], right?" The certainty of the question jarred. It reeked of presumption and social policing. I had an identity detective on my hands. Usually I'd engage but he wasn't trying to initiate a conversation. I defriended him.

I felt like an outlaw crossing the state line, leaving behind a cop shouting: "You won't get away with these nonconformist shenanigans!" I felt liberated, but it was bittersweet. As a gender outlaw, there are some people and places you have to leave behind for ever. Each schism, though rare, feels like a collective failure.

Leng, who identifies as a transman, recently told me about being at a party where a cis woman followed him around asking about his genitals and telling him he wasn't a real man. Clearly this was extreme behaviour, but what I found almost more shocking was that no one else at the party intervened. To me, this seems like a clear case of harassment, but none of the cis people present could identify with the trans person enough to defend him. They didn't join the woman in a conga line of aggression, but their empathy lay with her curiosity rather than his humiliation.

In my own case, aside from batting away the "real name" and occasional "Do you have a willy?" questions like flies, I've only once been totally knocked sideways by someone else's rampant curiosity. At a family wedding, an elderly relative was behind me as we filed into the dining room. Suddenly, she said: "How do you go for a wee?"

There was no mistaking the question, but because I'm English I let out a kind of simultaneous laugh-gasp apology. Before having to think of a more coherent response, she gasped herself and apologised. She said she didn't know why she'd asked. I do. She was curious and the lack of social conventions around transgender issues makes people do silly things – things they'd never do in relation to cis people.

Frankie, who identifies as trans feminine and whose biological sex is male, says the most common assumption people make about them (they use gender-neutral pronouns) can be blamed on society's age-old representation of the tragic, self-loathing trans woman. Because Frankie has a feminine gender expression and a penis, people assume they must hate themselves. Not only do people assume – they ask as much, as if Frankie is an accessible version of the onscreen stereotype, provided, again for the benefit of their unbridled curiosity.

Of course, Frankie would rather you didn't assume, or at least that you didn't ask. But since you probably will on both counts, they'll tell you they're fine about it, actually. They even use it. For actual sex and masturbation, can you believe? That is, after all, what it's there for.

In fact, since you were wondering, let's clear a few other things up. No, we weren't "born in the wrong body" and no we don't want a "sex change". These terms are created by cis society to make trans people more definable, less messy. But we're not easy to understand and it's not because we're trans – it's because we're people.

I had a roundtable discussion with four other trans people, Leng, Frankie, Jai and CJ. Transition meant a completely different thing to each of us and not one of us is currently interested in genital surgery. We also all have and enjoy sex in a variety of ways. This diversity was not engineered. It occurred as naturally as diversity would at a table of cis people.

A common theme that did emerge, and that runs contrary to a common stereotype of trans people, is that we do not generally have outrageously kinky sex. We may, as a group, seem more open-minded and positive about sex. But, we encounter the same awkward situations in relation to sex as the next person, cis or trans. For instance, there's probably no more universal feeling than CJ's panic when their socially conservative mum stumbled across their flogger. Perhaps anyone in that situation, grasping for a simple, non-sexual get-out, would have explained that it was simply an elaborate duster.

In this article, I wanted to answer some of the common regrettable questions cis people ask trans people – "Do you have a penis or a vagina?", "How do you have sex?" and winner, perhaps, of the confused and misguided question derby: "Why do want to become a man if you want to have sex with men?" My hope was that this would stop the flow of inappropriate questions in one-to-one situations.

But writing this has made me realise that I can't answer them. I can only speak for myself and that isn't helpful to anyone except people I go to bed with. We get asked these questions, not because people are interested in us as individuals. They want to figure us trans people out. They want to "get" us but we can't be gotten. I could fill an entire wiki with the potential answers to just one of these intimate inquiries.

All I can do is flag up the real-life complexity to be found no matter which way you slice society. The rest must be left up to your imagination.

So, enough questions. All you will do is to make another human being feel uncomfortable in your company. Ask yourself instead, would I ask [insert name of cis acquaintance here] about their downstairs? Would I comment on [cis person]'s lavatory or bedroom habits? No, I jolly well would not, come to think about it.

With that in mind, how about we leave it at "I'm as complicated/boring as you are" and talk about the weather instead? Or the latest episode of True Detective? How about them antlers, eh? Crikey.

It's hard to tell people "You're doing it wrong!" without making them feel defensive. Especially in this context, where the motivational force is curiosity – that most innate, innocent and niggly of emotions. But let me state once and for all (one can but dream) that it is not OK to ask trans people about their private lives unless they have explicitly stated otherwise. If you're curious about what's in my pants, grab a crayon and mind-map that doozy. Or knock yourself out on Google. Google doesn't have personal boundaries but I do, and they're probably very similar to yours.

The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/19/trans-people-rude-questions-sex-lives)

[Kazanne]

I get you weren't trying to be rude Kazanne so I apologise for being snappy, but there's a lot of misunderstanding with those types of questions and most people don't actually realise how potentially rude they're being. Curiosity is important, but so is decorum



The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/19/trans-people-rude-questions-sex-lives)

Thankyou Jack that was a good read,I am always curious with how people deal with things like that in life,just need to balance it with some decorum:wavey:

[Marsh.]

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

[Firewire]

How thick must you be to not realise that Kellie is a woman?

[JoshBB]

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

She apparently disagrees.

[Denver]

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

But her mind doesnt work that way inside she is a woman

[Rob!]

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

Kellie is apparently easier to spell. :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

I would be Cassandra and I would have much bigger tits than Kellie has.


Morsh I see you as a Mildred?

[Rob!]

I would be Cassandra and I would have much bigger tits than Kellie has.


Morsh I see you as a Mildred?

I see Ermentrude for him tbh.

[Cherie]

I have a feeling we will be bored senseless by Kellie, she comes across as lacking in humour and personality.

[Firewire]

I have a feeling we will be bored senseless by Kellie, she comes across as lacking in humour and personality.

Maybe it was first night nerves, she definitely has a lot of stories to tell... only time will tell, really

[Cherie]

I would be Cassandra and I would have much bigger tits than Kellie has.


Morsh I see you as a Mildred?

You come across as more of an Ethel.

[Cherie]

Maybe it was first night nerves, she definitely has a lot of stories to tell... only time will tell, really

Judging by the clip I saw this morning of her talking with Dee it doesn't bode well!

[Vicky.]

Kellie doesnt seem to identify as either man or woman though? From the little we have seen (and I only saw VTs and a little of LF) she sees herself as having both man and woman inside her...and a different personality for each :S

[arista]

Over 60
he left it to late

[Cherie]

Kellie doesnt seem to identify as either man or woman though? From the little we have seen (and I only saw VTs and a little of LF) she sees herself as having both man and woman inside her...and a different personality for each :S

Yes she speaks of Frank as if she has banished his personality - strange!

[Firewire]

Kellie doesnt seem to identify as either man or woman though? From the little we have seen (and I only saw VTs and a little of LF) she sees herself as having both man and woman inside her...and a different personality for each :S

I guess she's genderqueer then, we should only use the pronouns that Kellie wishes us to use otherwise it is insulting to him or her.

[arista]

Kellie doesnt seem to identify as either man or woman though? From the little we have seen (and I only saw VTs and a little of LF) she sees herself as having both man and woman inside her...and a different personality for each :S


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02490/frank-maloney_2490716b.jpg

[Firewire]

Judging by the clip I saw this morning of her talking with Dee it doesn't bode well!

oh, that's a bit of a shame... can't see her lasting long then

[T*]

Not even 24 hours and theres already transphobia. I hope karma makes it way around to you.

[Vicky.]

I guess she's genderqueer then, we should only use the pronouns that Kellie wishes us to use otherwise it is insulting to him or her.

Agree, was just pointing out that the usual 'she identifies as a woman' argument doesnt appear to apply here :p

[Denver]

Over 60
he left it to late

there is no age limit

[Jack_]

Kellie doesnt seem to identify as either man or woman though? From the little we have seen (and I only saw VTs and a little of LF) she sees herself as having both man and woman inside her...and a different personality for each :S

I'm a bit reluctant to go down this road on this forum again but if this is the case it sounds like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigender

I guess we'll learn more over the next few weeks

[Vicky.]

I'm a bit reluctant to go down this road on this forum again but if this is the case it sounds like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigender

I guess we'll learn more over the next few weeks

Tbh it came across to me as more of a split personality thing..she kinda made out like she had..suppressed her male side but it comes out when shes angry. The whole area is intriguing

[Heaven = Winner]

I'd call Kellie a woman, just because it's the respectful thing to do tbh.

[Marsh.]

She apparently disagrees.

No sh*t sherlock.

But her mind doesnt work that way inside she is a woman

:conf: Yes. Frankie is a woman's name. :suspect:

Not even 24 hours and theres already transphobia. I hope karma makes it way around to you.

He'll get the tea and biscuits ready.

[Marsh.]

I see Ermentrude for him tbh.

I prefer Emily.

http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/emily-bishop.jpg?w=650&h=927&crop=1

[Nell_McCoy]

From what I have seen so far I like Kellie as a person and were I in her company i would have the good manners to refer to her as "she" and treat her as a woman, however I do not see this as some kind of right which a person can demand. Any woman has a right to regard an individual in possession of a penis as being male. If a man has the courage and tenacity to part with his penis and testicles I believe they then have a RIGHT to be regarded legally and in every other way as being female. Many people believe many bizarre things about themselves it does not necessarily make it so. I object to being referred to as a "Cis" woman, I am a woman and do not need the transgender community to create a prefix for me. I am NOT transphobic, I do not have an unnatural fear or dislike of transexual people, I support those wishing to have a sex change operation and would treat them with dignity and respect, until the operation is complete a M2F transexual is sadly, scientifically still male no matter how much they may wish otherwise.

[hijaxers]

No he hasnt.....

Hes poped a few pills and put a dress on .....

Just because you say you want to be a "women" doesnt mean to say you can be.

Maybe next time im getting car insurance i should say im a women and go to one of those companies that give big discounts for lady drivers (god knows why..:laugh:)

There's no need for nastiness - and do keep up - those insurance companies have been stopped ! So get your facts right and learning to spell would be good

[JoshBB]

From what I have seen so far I like Kellie as a person and were I in her company i would have the good manners to refer to her as "she" and treat her as a woman, however I do not see this as some kind of right which a person can demand. Any woman has a right to regard an individual in possession of a penis as being male. If a man has the courage and tenacity to part with his penis and testicles I believe they then have a RIGHT to be regarded legally and in every other way as being female. Many people believe many bizarre things about themselves it does not necessarily make it so. I object to being referred to as a "Cis" woman, I am a woman and do not need the transgender community to create a prefix for me. I am NOT transphobic, I do not have an unnatural fear or dislike of transexual people, I support those wishing to have a sex change operation and would treat them with dignity and respect, until the operation is complete a M2F transexual is sadly, scientifically still male no matter how much they may wish otherwise.


But you are a cis woman, right? Cisgender means you're happy with the sex assigned at birth, Transgender being the opposite.

[JoshBB]

No he hasnt.....

Hes poped a few pills and put a dress on .....

Just because you say you want to be a "women" doesnt mean to say you can be.

Maybe next time im getting car insurance i should say im a women and go to one of those companies that give big discounts for lady drivers (god knows why..:laugh:)

This is kind of transphobic. :umm2:

[Rob!]

I prefer Emily.

http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/emily-bishop.jpg?w=650&h=927&crop=1

Omg this bitch :love: :love: :love:

[arista]

there is no age limit


Of Course

[Jack_]

From what I have seen so far I like Kellie as a person and were I in her company i would have the good manners to refer to her as "she" and treat her as a woman, however I do not see this as some kind of right which a person can demand. Any woman has a right to regard an individual in possession of a penis as being male. If a man has the courage and tenacity to part with his penis and testicles I believe they then have a RIGHT to be regarded legally and in every other way as being female. Many people believe many bizarre things about themselves it does not necessarily make it so. I object to being referred to as a "Cis" woman, I am a woman and do not need the transgender community to create a prefix for me. I am NOT transphobic, I do not have an unnatural fear or dislike of transexual people, I support those wishing to have a sex change operation and would treat them with dignity and respect, until the operation is complete a M2F transexual is sadly, scientifically still male no matter how much they may wish otherwise.

Cisgender is not a word created by the transgender community, it's a sociological definition for people that feel their biological sex matches their assigned gender (which is what you're misunderstanding here, there is a difference between the two). It is anything but offensive, but some like to believe it is because it's a new word they've never seen before that looks a bit complicated~

[warrenhill]

I have spoken to BET 365 and they said...

"He is in there as a woman" .....:laugh:


Anyway by the sound of things Kellie wont last that long in the house

[JoshBB]

I have spoken to BET 365 and they said...

"He is in there as a woman" .....:laugh:


Anyway by the sound of things Kellie wont last that long in the house

They used the wrong pronoun then. it's she.

[Nell_McCoy]

Cisgender is not a word created by the transgender community, it's a sociological definition for people that feel their biological sex matches their assigned gender (which is what you're misunderstanding here, there is a difference between the two). It is anything but offensive, but some like to believe it is because it's a new word they've never seen before that looks a bit complicated~

The term has only been in use since the 1990's in relation to gender identity. That to me makes it a NEW word despite the fact that it is derived from Latin.
Don't I have the right to decide what I want to be called?

[JoshBB]

The term has only been in use since the 1990's in relation to gender identity. That to me makes it a NEW word despite the fact that it is derived from Latin.
Don't I have the right to decide what I want to be called?

.. if it's a term that correctly describes your gender identity why would you be angry at this?

[Rob!]

Cisgender is not a word created by the transgender community, it's a sociological definition for people that feel their biological sex matches their assigned gender (which is what you're misunderstanding here, there is a difference between the two). It is anything but offensive, but some like to believe it is because it's a new word they've never seen before that looks a bit complicated~

I was trying to find out about that when Facebook added all of it's gender indenty options. I don't quite understand cisgender's definition though. You agree with your biological gender? So I'm a man and believe I'm a man, I am cisgender?

[Nell_McCoy]

.. if it's a term that correctly describes your gender identity why would you be angry at this?

How about because it is just ridiculous and women have had all kinds of male-defined labels attached to them for millenia, why should I not have the right to say that I do not wish to be labelled in this way? Furthermore I don't need to justify my feelings to a male who is no doubt still in his teens on an internet forum OK End of....

[JoshBB]

How about because it is just ridiculous and women have had all kinds of male-defined labels attached to them for millenia, why should I not have the right to say that I do not wish to be labelled in this way? Furthermore I don't need to justify my feelings to a male who is no doubt still in his teens on an internet forum OK End of....

Not end of, unless you're not willing to listen to reason. "Cisgender" means you are happy with your assigned sex. I am a guy and happy being so, therefore I am cisgender. If you aren't, you aren't.

It isn't an offensive or degoratory label in any way shape or form. It's like refusing to be called "english" because you don't want to be labelled as such. It's purely trivial.

[Creggle]

Cisgender means you're happy with the sex assigned at birth

They have a word for that?

:laugh2:

[Nell_McCoy]

Not end of, unless you're not willing to listen to reason. "Cisgender" means you are happy with your assigned sex. I am a guy and happy being so, therefore I am cisgender. If you aren't, you aren't.

It isn't an offensive or degoratory label in any way shape or form. It's like refusing to be called "english" because you don't want to be labelled as such. It's purely trivial.

But its OK for a person with a penis to demand to be called a woman....is "man" a derogatory term? I would have the good manners to refer to and treat a pre-op male to female TS as a woman I would therefore hope that they and others would have the good manners not to attach an unnecessary label to me, what is so difficult for you to comprehend about this? I have been married for over 30 years have seven children and five grandchildren I am a woman and I don't need a recently developed prefix to indicate that I am happy with my gender Thank You Very Much!

[chuff me dizzy]

Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

I agree

[sampvt]

This Frank/Kellie thing is doing my head in. I am not a homophobe, in fact my eldest is gay, but he isn't effeminate, he is pretty masculine but prefers the company of men and he has a regular partner he lives with, so please don't get on my case like some people always do when this subject rears its head.

I have been researching Frank Maloney's story and it just does not ad up. He is homophobic for a start. He calls gays queers and puffs and when he went with U kip, he was pretty damming against them. He is not on record as coming out for sexual reasons, in fact the best I could find was that last year or a little earlier, he went through depression and then decided to tell his wife of over 20yrs, he was a cross dresser.

They got divorced and now all of a sudden, the cross dressing thing has sprouted wings and she is getting shed loads of dosh for her story but after 60 yrs of being a macho man/heterosexual, she now wants to be treated like a lady. She is regarded as a lady in every way, but can she legally go into a ladies loo, can she walk into a ladies shower, indeed can she legally do things now that men like me would be arrested for just because she has a dress and a very bad hairdo.

I am a sceptic (my right) and I am beginning to think that this isn't Kelly the real transgender person, but maybe its a man that can see a way of making money from a situation as a way to resurrect his flagging career and get back into the limelight and be very handsomely rewarded.

Is she indeed doing real transgenders, that struggle for acceptance, a big dishonour, or should we the public simply drop protocol and massage his ego by giving her a great big sympathy card vote, because the real and honest truth is that, if she went in there as Frank Maloney, he would be out on his ear in no time as Frank Maloney was a bit of a dick and a social outcast, if you go by his bios.

Only time will tell, but the typical tell tale signs of a transgender type are defo missing from Kelly's actions. In fact if you look at her, she is a tad creepy round the good looking girls in the house but stays away from the not so pretty ones. In fact to the untrained eye and someone who didn't know his back story, she comes across as a very bad drag act and a bit of a pervert by virtue of his actions, hand holding, stroking, leering and all round creepy actions.

She even sits like an Irish navvy and talks like someone drugged up. You would think that Kelly would make an effort to look more feminine and drop the whole me me me thing that is struggling for acceptance, its all way too strange for me and I was wondering how many FM's felt the same.

[Helen 28]

Frank is like so many blokes he just likes wearing womens knickers.

All this trapped in the wrong body rubbish is simply guff.

[Nell_McCoy]

There are people who are genuinely M2F Transgender but there are many more men who get a sexual thrill out of wearing women's clothes pretending to be Trans and demanding to be treated as women when they have absolutely no intention whatsoever of giving up their dick. I don't think Kellie is one of the latter and she seems like a genuinely nice person.

[Liam-]

This Frank/Kellie thing is doing my head in. I am not a homophobe, in fact my eldest is gay, but he isn't effeminate, he is pretty masculine but prefers the company of men and he has a regular partner he lives with, so please don't get on my case like some people always do when this subject rears its head.

I have been researching Frank Maloney's story and it just does not ad up. He is homophobic for a start. He calls gays queers and puffs and when he went with U kip, he was pretty damming against them. He is not on record as coming out for sexual reasons, in fact the best I could find was that last year or a little earlier, he went through depression and then decided to tell his wife of over 20yrs, he was a cross dresser.

They got divorced and now all of a sudden, the cross dressing thing has sprouted wings and she is getting shed loads of dosh for her story but after 60 yrs of being a macho man/heterosexual, she now wants to be treated like a lady. She is regarded as a lady in every way, but can she legally go into a ladies loo, can she walk into a ladies shower, indeed can she legally do things now that men like me would be arrested for just because she has a dress and a very bad hairdo.

I am a sceptic (my right) and I am beginning to think that this isn't Kelly the real transgender person, but maybe its a man that can see a way of making money from a situation as a way to resurrect his flagging career and get back into the limelight and be very handsomely rewarded.

Is she indeed doing real transgenders, that struggle for acceptance, a big dishonour, or should we the public simply drop protocol and massage his ego by giving her a great big sympathy card vote, because the real and honest truth is that, if she went in there as Frank Maloney, he would be out on his ear in no time as Frank Maloney was a bit of a dick and a social outcast, if you go by his bios.

Only time will tell, but the typical tell tale signs of a transgender type are defo missing from Kelly's actions. In fact if you look at her, she is a tad creepy round the good looking girls in the house but stays away from the not so pretty ones. In fact to the untrained eye and someone who didn't know his back story, she comes across as a very bad drag act and a bit of a pervert by virtue of his actions, hand holding, stroking, leering and all round creepy actions.

She even sits like an Irish navvy and talks like someone drugged up. You would think that Kelly would make an effort to look more feminine and drop the whole me me me thing that is struggling for acceptance, its all way too strange for me and I was wondering how many FM's felt the same.

I thought i was the only one to think this tbh, but i agree with what you said in bold.. Her past as part of UKIP and being homophobic and then deciding she wanted to become a women didn't quite add up in my head.. And if she truly does feel like she should be like a woman, then how come she isn't used to doing her make up? Most transgender people would say that they tried putting make up on in secret and stuff, so that didn't quit ring true to me
Don't get me wrong, if it's all genuine and she truly does want to transition, good on her and good luck t her.. but i am a bit skeptical about it all

[Northern Monkey]

Imo,A man can never actually be a woman,No matter how much hacking and tucking goes on down there.I could get my bits cut off and a fake vagina modelled down there but i would still be male,Just a male that's been cut and tucked and taken hormones.However,If Kellie wants to be reffered to as Kellie and thinks she is supposed to be female then why not eh?I shall refer to 'her' as 'her' or Kellie as that's what she prefers.

[warrenhill]

Has anyone thought this whole Kellie thing might be a big wind up.....

And maybe some kind of bet or something else.

It all came a bit suddenly and only a couple of weeks before the programme started......:conf:

[Livia]

Jezuz... this thread... I honestly thought most people had got past all the disguised hostility and piss-taking dressed up to look like humour. Sadly it looks like I was wrong.

[sampvt]

Jezuz... this thread... I honestly thought most people had got past all the disguised hostility and piss-taking dressed up to look like humour. Sadly it looks like I was wrong.

It would appear that after several pages, there are more than a handful of people or posters, that have concerns about this subject, probably brought about by the fact that it is not PC correct to refer to a TG her as a him. I have gotten into trouble in the past for saying he as opposed to her for Lauren Harries. We are only looking for clarification to save face and not to upset anyone.

Frank Warren or Kellie Warren hardly fall into the same category as Lauren harries, but nevertheless, it still has provoked a huge outcry and IMO a very unfair sympathy understanding of a character that could be a complete fraud. Even some of Franks/Kellies best mates and business colleagues are calling it a very strange and so unlike him, idea.

I have the right to state an opinion and my opinion, however wrong or right it might be, is that its a complete fraud and he is only doing it for financial reasons with the gratitude attached that he can earn from doing a bit of cross dressing and embark upon a bit of a thrill seeking venture at our cost.

The day I read that he has slept with or had a relationship with a man, my fears will be put to rest, but sadly, at his age, maybe sex isn't on the menu, however based on his previous appetite and exploits, that scenario is about as likely as Shergar popping up on Brighton beach on a park and ride basis.

[Pete.]

hasn't she had the operation yet?

[CaudleHalbard]

hasn't she had the operation yet?

No. Maloney has taken some hormone tablets, that's all - and legally is still a man. This is different from (e.g.) Lauren Harries who has had gender reassigment surgery and is - by law - a woman.

Notwithstanding that both of them will always have the male chromosomes and - it seems - men's voices to match. Biologically (as opposed to legally) they will always be men.

All very sad, IMO. :(

[Nell_McCoy]

The daily update of what happened in the house referred to kellie as HE and HIM - Check the thread ? I am confused now.

[billy123]

She identities as a woman, you use female pronouns. It's as simple as calling someone a name they wish to be known as.

Anyone that can't do this is either slow on the uptake or it says a lot about them as a person. That's all there is to it.I agree with you on this Jack but you really shouldnt try and shut people down by trying to brand them as slow or stupid or whatever as it puts off people discussing it and if people dont talk about it it nothing changes.
Sometimes letting people vent their prejudices and not getting pounced upon is better than just immediately shutting them down and making them unwilling to talk about it if there is no discussion nothing ever changes.
There is something to learn for everybody not just those that dont understand these issues.

edit: I Just read the rest of the thread and seen that you did change tack so good on you for that. :thumbs:

[CaudleHalbard]

It is not legally incorrect to refer to Kellie as a "he". It may not be within etiquette but "he" is quite accurate.

Would Kellie be permitted to share a women's changing room?

[TheElusiveChanteuse]

Not really sure why it's such an issue? If she wants to be reffered to and identifies as a woman than why would anyone else have an issue with it? Does it affect your day to day life if Kellie wants to be called 'she'?

Imo,A man can never actually be a woman,No matter how much hacking and tucking goes on down there.I could get my bits cut off and a fake vagina modelled down there but i would still be male,Just a male that's been cut and tucked and taken hormones.However,If Kellie wants to be reffered to as Kellie and thinks she is supposed to be female then why not eh?I shall refer to 'her' as 'her' or Kellie as that's what she prefers.

I'm guessing you have never felt like a women trapped in a mans body which is what Kellie has felt like, so of course you don't get it and would still consider yourself male.

[Northern Monkey]

Not really sure why it's such an issue? If she wants to be reffered to and identifies as a woman than why would anyone else have an issue with it? Does it affect your day to day life if Kellie wants to be called 'she'?



I'm guessing you have never felt like a women trapped in a mans body which is what Kellie has felt like, so of course you don't get it and would still consider yourself male.

I am talking about physiologically not psychologically.You can think you are female but it does'nt make it true.You can have as many ops as you want,It still does'nt make it true.However,If that is how Kellie likes to be referred to,As i said,Out of respect for what seems like a nice person male or female i shall call her Kellie.

[CaudleHalbard]

Feeling trapped is a state of mind.

Arguably better dealt with by addressing the psychological cause than by asking the surgeon to mutilate a perfectly healthy body.

Doesn't work very well anyway. I saw a statistic some years ago which suggested a higher suicide rate in post-operative transgender people than average for the population.

That can't be a good thing.

[Tregard]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UUBBVvfBUcM/T1t8Zi673mI/AAAAAAAAA0c/uEdZ-PA4IpI/s1600/homer-simpson-bush-gif.gif

[Marsh.]

It is not legally incorrect to refer to Kellie as a "he". It may not be within etiquette but "he" is quite accurate.

Would Kellie be permitted to share a women's changing room?

Good point, would Kellie be allowed to use public female toilets/changing rooms?

[reece(:]

Good grief, this thread.

[sampvt]

Good grief, this thread.

If you feel strongly about this thread, please feel free to offer an opinion that might give us an insight because obviously we are struggling somewhat through ignorance, and someone as well informed as you could probably help us out.

[Ross.]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UUBBVvfBUcM/T1t8Zi673mI/AAAAAAAAA0c/uEdZ-PA4IpI/s1600/homer-simpson-bush-gif.gif

:joker: