What they don't know

[puzzled]

When a person is brain damaged, before they are discharged, their families/carers are extensively briefed on what to expect. The person isn't doing nothing because she's lazy, but because she's got a kind of brain fog. Sadly, things like hygiene slip away because of this passivity. This is why Gary so readily agreed to take a shower--when it was brought up by someone else, the fog lifted.

The shushing is part of the difficulty of remembering what is appropriate in social situations. What person without brain damage would sit there and listen to James go on and on and on about how helpful and wonderful he was?

So, to sum up, I really think that BB should have briefed the HMs somewhat about what to expect, and I think that it would be a much different house, although some of them still would have been mean and nasty. After all, they're treating Gary like he's a nasty version of their granddads. I think Audley, for one, would make allowances. Then we'd see the real villains.

Another poster gave a really good source about brain damage.
http://synapse.org.au/get-the-facts/impact-of-acquired-brain-injury-on-the-individual-fact-sheet.aspx

[jessicadanielle]

When a person is brain damaged, before they are discharged, their families/carers are extensively briefed on what to expect. The person isn't doing nothing because she's lazy, but because she's got a kind of brain fog. Sadly, things like hygiene slip away because of this passivity. This is why Gary so readily agreed to take a shower--when it was brought up by someone else, the fog lifted.

The shushing is part of the difficulty of remembering what is appropriate in social situations. What person without brain damage would sit there and listen to James go on and on and on about how helpful and wonderful he was?

So, to sum up, I really think that BB should have briefed the HMs somewhat about what to expect, and I think that it would be a much different house, although some of them still would have been mean and nasty. After all, they're treating Gary like he's a nasty version of their granddads. I think Audley, for one, would make allowances. Then we'd see the real villains.

Another poster gave a really good source about brain damage.
http://synapse.org.au/get-the-facts/impact-of-acquired-brain-injury-on-the-individual-fact-sheet.aspx

The bit in bold is hilarious :laugh:

Yeah maybe they should have briefed them, and I think you're right. Ignorant people like David would probably still argue that Gary is "manipulative".

[Vanessa]

What person without brain damage would sit there and listen to James go on and on and on about how helpful and wonderful he was? :laugh2:

[ThriceShy]

They really do need to be told.

Criticising Gary for his not showering or his inappropriate comments is the equivalent of criticising someone in a wheelchair for not moving round the house quick enough.

But the housemates can't see it. Are they just not bright enough or do they not care?

[rusticgal]

This is why Audley stands out to me....I haven't seen him attack or join in with the others against Gary.
I know he hasn't done an awful lot but...he dislikes James and hasn't jumped on the Gary bandwagon...that's why he is my second favourite.

[FlippingEck]

Criticising Gary for his not showering or his inappropriate comments is the equivalent of criticising someone in a wheelchair for not moving round the house quick enough.



Oh please. I don't believe what I'm reading some days... you guys..
:idc:

[ThriceShy]

Oh please. I don't believe what I'm reading some days... you guys..
:idc:

What did I get wrong?

[FlippingEck]

What did I get wrong?

Criticising Gary for not showering is like criticising a person in a wheelchair for not moving quickly enough?

Surely sweeping overgeneralisations about brain injuries are not relevant and do more harm than good.

TBI's can cause many different social, cognitive, emotional and physical defects.. you cannot generalise on the type of injury Busey had and what his own personal problems are relating to the injury. The brain is a very complex organ. If Gary DOES need reminding to shower, or reminding that basic functions are necessary, if indeed your assumptions are true, then Big Brother has an obligation to provide Gary with that kind of support... IF indeed he is incapable of living without support, which is kind of what you are suggesting, Big Brother should either a) provide him with that support by calling him to the Diary Room... Hi Gary... it's time to have a shower and change your clothes... that kinda thing.. or b) Don't put him in the house.

The other housemates are there to provide entertainment and have fun. They are not there to be Busey's carers. But please, don't generalise about his brain injury. Unless of course you were his physician and you have access to his records..

[puzzled]

This is why Audley stands out to me....I haven't seen him attack or join in with the others against Gary.
I know he hasn't done an awful lot but...he dislikes James and hasn't jumped on the Gary bandwagon...that's why he is my second favourite.

I liked the way Audley told Gary not to go into the shower alone, and when Gary started getting his back up, Audley said it was because of his knee injury, which could cause him to slip.

[jet]

The bit in bold is hilarious :laugh:

Yeah maybe they should have briefed them, and I think you're right. Ignorant people like David would probably still argue that Gary is "manipulative".

A lot depends on what part of the brain is affected. It doesn't mean every bad trait a person may have is due to the damage.

[puzzled]

What did I get wrong?

I thought it was spot on.

[jet]

I liked the way Audley told Gary not to go into the shower alone, and when Gary started getting his back up, Audley said it was because of his knee injury, which could cause him to slip.

That was James.

[waylander1973]

When a person is brain damaged, before they are discharged, their families/carers are extensively briefed on what to expect. The person isn't doing nothing because she's lazy, but because she's got a kind of brain fog. Sadly, things like hygiene slip away because of this passivity. This is why Gary so readily agreed to take a shower--when it was brought up by someone else, the fog lifted.

The shushing is part of the difficulty of remembering what is appropriate in social situations. What person without brain damage would sit there and listen to James go on and on and on about how helpful and wonderful he was?

So, to sum up, I really think that BB should have briefed the HMs somewhat about what to expect, and I think that it would be a much different house, although some of them still would have been mean and nasty. After all, they're treating Gary like he's a nasty version of their granddads. I think Audley, for one, would make allowances. Then we'd see the real villains.

Another poster gave a really good source about brain damage.
http://synapse.org.au/get-the-facts/impact-of-acquired-brain-injury-on-the-individual-fact-sheet.aspx

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

[puzzled]

Was it? They were both there, but I thought it was Audley. Oh, well, I've been wrong before.

[FlippingEck]

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

^^^^ THIS^^^^ :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[puzzled]

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

Absolutely right, but since they did accept him, they should do something to ameliorate the situation. I'm sure some of the HMs wouldn't come off so badly if they understood the situation.

[FlippingEck]

Was it? They were both there, but I thought it was Audley. Oh, well, I've been wrong before.

I think it was James.

[NotAWannabe]

For those of you who have not yet experienced a family member with some form of dementia, wait until you do and then cast judgement on how the housemates 'should' act. I'm not saying Gary is in this category, but just that nothing quite prepares you for it. You spend a life time building mental models of 'expected/anticipated' behaviour only to have them shattered. Try as you might, it's very easy to get annoyed with them and them with yourself for getting annoyed.

[Tarryn]

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

You don't need to be a carer to show some decency when talking to a person & let's face it, they have showed far more respect to Kellie who has been much more difficult to live with than Gary.

[FlippingEck]

For those of you who have not yet experienced a family member with some form of dementia, wait until you do and then cast judgement on how the housemates 'should' act. I'm not saying Gary is in this category, but just that nothing quite prepares you for it. You spend a life time building mental models of 'expected/anticipated' behaviour only to have them shattered. Try as you might, it's very easy to get annoyed with them and them with yourself for getting annoyed.

I appreciate what you are saying, but don't think it is relevant in this case. I have dealt with dementia, brain damage, and brain injury of people close to me, each of them very different and there are no 2 cases the same.. its a very individual thing.

[Jules2]

I love the forum, we learn each day and thanks for the information. No matter what the reason is we only have the HMs word that Gary does not shower. As I have said, maybe he does not shower but it doesnt mean to say he doesnt wash. To me it is all just a little bit picky.

He has every right to be there otherwise he would not have been chosen. His Agent along with BB and their aids, would have made sure that he was fit. As it has been said, the powers that be are watching Kellie and Gary to make sure they are ok, I guess these are the obvious two with problems, Gary his hearing and Kellie her own need to be accepted. Having said that though, Kellie, at this moment, is the favourite to go tomorrow. Gary and George look quite safe and believe it or not Stephanie looks pretty good.

[jessicadanielle]

A lot depends on what part of the brain is affected. It doesn't mean every bad trait a person may have is due to the damage.

Yeah I agree, but not sure why you've put this in response to my post?

When I said David would think Gary is manipulative I was referring to the fact that he seemed to think Gary is using his hearing impairment to manipulate the other housemates in his interview last night... Or something like that anyway, he wasn't making much sense :laugh:

[Jules2]

A lot depends on what part of the brain is affected. It doesn't mean every bad trait a person may have is due to the damage.

This is what I was trying to say the other day, I cant help wondering why though everyone goes on about a brain injury. Gary is very competent in his VTs. I wonder what sort of questions Emma will ask him when he comes out?

[jet]

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

You are absolutely right. If he needs help, both physically and mentally, he shouldn't be in the house. It's unfair to him and unfair to the others. At the very least, the other HM's should have been fully briefed about any possible problems. Which makes me think he doesn't need any particular help and his brain is working fine, thanks very much...

[Jules2]

BB should have not asked him to go the show in the first place, the housemates are not trained carers, if does need special help then he needs people who trained to provide it.

I think we have to bring it all down to the nitty gritty factor of the show, to be nominated is their fear so, it is best to stay with the crowd and not to fall out of the fold. Thus Gary and Frenchie have been the two obvious ones to pick. Leslie made this very clear in the beginning, then we have the likes of James and Stephanie saying that they should be caged like animals, titter, titter. One hears, one catches on and there we go we have the bulk of the show. Sheep followng each other....

[waylander1973]

You don't need to be a carer to show some decency when talking to a person & let's face it, they have showed far more respect to Kellie who has been much more difficult to live with than Gary.

Showing decency of course they should, but to remind a housemate to keep clean for example then actually yes you do need that training, the housemates have enough stress to deal without gary adding to it with his needs as well, no housemate signed on to take care of another housemate in that way, did they and as david said when you to help him he can be difficult to deal with, so who's worst david who lost his temper towards the end when he was helping him with his knee (being a fitness coach he must havesome first aid training), or the housemates who kept out of it.

So gary does needed someone who is trained to help him.

Carers/nurses who help old people with such problems are taught to expect such behavior so they can deal with.

[Tarryn]

Showing decency of course they should, but to remind a housemate to keep clean for example then actually yes you do need that training, the housemates have enough stress to deal without gary adding to it with his needs as well, no housemate signed on to take care of another housemate in that way, did they and as david said when you to help him he can be difficult to deal with, so who's worst david who lost his temper towards the end when he was helping him with his knee (being a fitness coach he must some first aid training), or the housemates who kept out of it.

So gary does needed someone who is trained to help him.

Carers/nurses who help old people with such problems are taught to expect such behavior so they can deal with.

If the HM's have real concerns about Gary needing caring for then they should go to BB & say what they think. But instead they are just treating him like dirt. I'm not defending Gary & saying he is a great HM but he deserves a certain amount of respect.

[jessicadanielle]

Showing decency of course they should, but to remind a housemate to keep clean for example then actually yes you do need that training, the housemates have enough stress to deal without gary adding to it with his needs as well, no housemate signed on to take care of another housemate in that way, did they and as david said when you to help him he can be difficult to deal with, so who's worst david who lost his temper towards the end when he was helping him with his knee (being a fitness coach he must some first aid training), or the housemates who kept out of it.

So gary does needed someone who is trained to help him.

Carers/nurses who help old people with such problems are taught to expect such behavior so they can deal with.

Personally I don't think Gary does need "help" exactly, just understanding. He has brain damage which doesn't appear to have affected his sensorimotor skills, and has a hearing impairment. I don't know what "problems" Gary has that you are referring to here?

[delta]

The fact is that he is on the show and they are such a self centered 'needy bunch' that they would all crawl, stamp, stampede over each other too hog the limelight.

I don't think they need to be lectured on how to behave { but obviously they have been since the program started} around an ageing gentleman, with impaired hearing and possible brain damage. Anyone with half an ounce of compassion and understanding would cut him a large amount of slack. After all, they are all so insistent it's only a game, so why is it more important to make themselves look big and for them as a group to isolate Gary.

I haven't watched the live feed but by all accounts you get the real measure of these people, so called celebrities when the footage isn't doctored.


Let's hope the British public once again step up to the plate and see him through to at least the final!!

[NotAWannabe]

I appreciate what you are saying, but don't think it is relevant in this case. I have dealt with dementia, brain damage, and brain injury of people close to me, each of them very different and there are no 2 cases the same.. its a very individual thing.

My comments are more about the people around the person concerned. How we respond.

[FlippingEck]

The fact is that he is on the show and they are such a self centered 'needy bunch' that they would all crawl, stamp, stampede over each other too hog the limelight.



Delta, Im not being funny.. this is Celebrity Big Brother... The majority of the housemates have always been self centred and needy, and would all crawl over their dead relatives to get a little more limelight... that's nothing new.

I cannot honestly say that ANY of the housemates are different, Busey included..

[FlippingEck]

My comments are more about the people around the person concerned. How we respond.

and my comments are still relevant. different people respond differently to different situations.. we are not clones..

[waylander1973]

If the HM's have real concerns about Gary needing caring for then they should go to BB & say what they think. But instead they are just treating him like dirt. I'm not defending Gary & saying he is a great HM but he deserves a certain amount of respect.

Yes they should but all BB will tell them to show gary some sympathy, plus they might already and we have been not been shown it. some housemates are treating him badly, what upsets me is that all the housemates apart from frenchy are being branded bullies or turning a blind eye to it on the outside, and BB are letting this situation ruin their personal images in the public eye.

Gary must be difficult to live with, to get such a reaction from most of the other housemates they can't all be bullies.

[Tarryn]

Yes they should but all BB will tell them to show gary some sympathy, plus they might already and we have been showed it. some housemates are treating him badly, what upsets me is that all the housemates apart from frenchy are being branded bullies or turning a blind eye to it on the outside, and BB are letting this situation ruin their personal images in the public eye.

Gary must be difficult to live with, to get such a reaction from most of the other housemates they can't all be bullies.

The HM's are doing a fabulous job of ruining their own personal images without BB helping them.
No one is making them behave like this.
If they are frustrated with Gary then sit down with him & explain it to him. I think he would be understanding. Instead they bitch about him. Not nice is it ?

[waylander1973]

The HM's are doing a fabulous job of ruining their own personal images without BB helping them.
No one is making them behave like this.
If they are frustrated with Gary then sit down with him & explain it to him. I think he would be understanding. Instead they bitch about him. Not nice is it ?

James does try to explain it to him, badly I gave you that but gets slaughtered for it here and elsewhere on the internet.

[NotAWannabe]

and my comments are still relevant. different people respond differently to different situations.. we are not clones..

Different forum members respond differently to different posts.

[jet]

Yes they should but all BB will tell them to show gary some sympathy, plus they might already and we have been showed it. some housemates are treating him badly, what upsets me is that all the housemates apart from frenchy are being branded bullies or turning a blind eye to it on the outside, and BB are letting this situation ruin their personal images in the public eye.

Gary must be difficult to live with, to get such a reaction from most of the other housemates they can't all be bullies.

As I said in another thread but which fits here better:

Gary was talked down to and seemed to be isolated last night. It was uncomfortable viewing.That live feed was just after live nominations though when tensions and feelings are running high and as most of the HM's nominated him, they might have felt uncomfortable themselves interacting with him. It's maybe not a good example of what a normal everyday live feed may be like. If I went by that alone, I would think Gary was being treated badly, no doubt about it.
Then I think of Celeb Apprentice usa, and he drove everyone up the wall on it as well and they hadn't much patience for him either. So that's two shows and 20 + people who are all pretty heartless and uncaring, and by the law of averages that just doesn't compute. So common sense tells me that many of those people have tried in their own way with Gary and he still bugs the hell out of them for whatever reason.
I think he could be manipulative, I think he could be winding people up sometimes. He did it in the USA show, but it was clearer there because they were in situations were they had to work together constantly on campaigns, sales etc. .
So I just don't know what to make of it, but wherever he goes, he causes controversy and it's brilliant viewing. Can anyone imagine what this series would be like without him?

[FlippingEck]

Different forum members respond differently to different posts.

Thank God! :laugh2:

[waylander1973]

As I said in another thread but which fits here better:

Gary was talked down to and seemed to be isolated last night. It was uncomfortable viewing.That live feed was just after live nominations though when tensions and feelings are running high and as most of the HM's nominated him, they might have felt uncomfortable themselves interacting with him. It's maybe not a good example of what a normal everyday live feed may be like. If I went by that alone, I would think Gary was being treated badly, no doubt about it.
Then I think of Celeb Apprentice usa, and he drove everyone up the wall on it as well and they hadn't much patience for him either. So that's two shows and 20 + people who are all pretty heartless and uncaring, and by the law of averages that just doesn't compute. So common sense tells me that many of those people have tried in their own way with Gary and he still bugs the hell out of them for whatever reason.
I think he could be manipulative, I think he could be winding people up sometimes. He did it in the USA show, but it was clearer there because they were in situations were they had to work together constantly on campaigns, sales etc. .
So I just don't know what to make of it, but wherever he goes, he causes controversy and it's brilliant viewing. Can anyone imagine what this series would be like without him?

If he is acting all of this up, then he should ashamed of himself he's damaging people's lives post show and using the public goodwill for his own ends.

[waylander1973]

I add if whole bunch of housemates come out of this show, being attacked about gary, tell good luck to big brother getting known/semi-known celebrities on that show in january, even if the money offer is good, would they take the risk of another gary or jim type being in the house and paying the price.

Only gary and audley have a true claim to being famous, the rest known by a few in this country.

[jet]

If he is acting all of this up, then he should ashamed of himself he's damaging people's lives post show and using the public goodwill for his own ends.

I'm not sure I'd go that far...but I do think he knows what he's doing more than is generally believed.

[LemonJam]

Brilliant thread. :thumbs: I've had a generally mixed opinion on Gary (leaning a big towards negative I'll admit) but with this knowledge I've changed some perspective. However with this knowledge I find myself asking what parts of his character are due to brain damage and what parts are really just Gary? It's a fair thought that these undesirable characteristics are solely from the brain damage but what if some weren't?

I totally agree with the notion that the housemates should've been informed a bit more but I fear this is what production wants (they know how the public are suckers for an underdog story). Producers don't want to show us everyone being nice to Gary and they've manipulated the situation to their favour in the name of entertainment. But God aren't we enjoying it? :laugh:

I'd be interested to see how the dynamic changes once they are (if ever) informed.

[jet]

Brilliant thread. :thumbs: I've had a generally mixed opinion on Gary (leaning a big towards negative I'll admit) but with this knowledge I've changed some perspective. However with this knowledge I find myself asking what parts of his character are due to brain damage and what parts are really just Gary? It's a fair thought that these undesirable characteristics are solely from the brain damage but what if some weren't?

I totally agree with the notion that the housemates should've been informed a bit more but I fear this is what production wants (they know how the public are suckers for an underdog story). Producers don't want to show us everyone being nice to Gary and they've manipulated the situation to their favour in the name of entertainment. But God aren't we enjoying it? :laugh:

I'd be interested to see how the dynamic changes once they are (if ever) informed.

Yes, I said this the other day. The producers can do what they want and what they want is for the public to get emotionally invested. It's the oldest trick in the book.

[JoshBB]

Oh please. I don't believe what I'm reading some days... you guys..
:idc:

It's shocking, isn't it, how people behave? Maybe you should cut him some slack.

[jessicadanielle]

As I said in another thread but which fits here better:

Gary was talked down to and seemed to be isolated last night. It was uncomfortable viewing.That live feed was just after live nominations though when tensions and feelings are running high and as most of the HM's nominated him, they might have felt uncomfortable themselves interacting with him. It's maybe not a good example of what a normal everyday live feed may be like. If I went by that alone, I would think Gary was being treated badly, no doubt about it.
Then I think of Celeb Apprentice usa, and he drove everyone up the wall on it as well and they hadn't much patience for him either. So that's two shows and 20 + people who are all pretty heartless and uncaring, and by the law of averages that just doesn't compute. So common sense tells me that many of those people have tried in their own way with Gary and he still bugs the hell out of them for whatever reason.
I think he could be manipulative, I think he could be winding people up sometimes. He did it in the USA show, but it was clearer there because they were in situations were they had to work together constantly on campaigns, sales etc. .
So I just don't know what to make of it, but wherever he goes, he causes controversy and it's brilliant viewing. Can anyone imagine what this series would be like without him?

On Celeb Apprentice, was he intentionally winding people up, or just a bit of an awkward personality?

Also, I think on the Apprentice it might be a bit different from BB because they have to work in a team towards an end goal, whereas on BB they just.. be. I'm sure that some of his annoyingness on Celeb Apprentice would translate to living as housemates too though.

[jet]

On Celeb Apprentice, was he intentionally winding people up, or just a bit of an awkward personality?

Also, I think on the Apprentice it might be a bit different from BB because they have to work in a team towards an end goal, whereas on BB they just.. be. I'm sure that some of his annoyingness on Celeb Apprentice would translate to living as housemates too though.

A bit of both. Often, if they planned some approach, he wanted to do the opposite because he knew things they didn't. :hehe:
He wasn't a team player, wanted things done his way and he held them back more often than not. The general feeling was that he enjoyed being disruptive and standing out from the rest.
When others tried to reason with him he thanked them and still loved them. lol

He was far from stupid as he won the task one week for the team and his hearing didn't seem to be a problem at all as far as I remember.
He drove them bonkers - and they weren't living with him 24/7 in a small space.
I see many similarities in his behaviour in the house even though it's a different situation. He's 2 years older now though and maybe isn't as sharp though I've a feeling he is sharp enough still! :laugh:

[jessicadanielle]

A bit of both. Often, if they planned some approach, he wanted to do the opposite because he knew things they didn't. :hehe:
He wasn't a team player, wanted things done his way and he held them back more often than not. The general feeling was that he enjoyed being disruptive and standing out from the rest.
When others tried to reason with him he thanked them and still loved them. lol

He was far from stupid as he won the task one week for the team and his hearing didn't seem to be a problem at all as far as I remember.
He drove them bonkers - and they weren't living with him 24/7 in a small space.
I see many similarities in his behaviour in the house even though it's a different situation. He's 2 years older now though and maybe isn't as sharp though I've a feeling he is sharp enough still! :laugh:

:laugh::laugh: that doesn't surprise me at all! I can defo imagine that in a situation where the team has to do something right, Gary would always think his way is the right way. I'm reeeeally gonna have to watch the series!

[FlippingEck]

It's shocking, isn't it, how people behave? Maybe you should cut him some slack.

Why? If he was a tad more personable I would consider it