Rate in scale of importance

[Kyle]

Rate what is more important to a society in your opinion on a scale of 1 for least important and 10 for most important.

The society in question is roughly based on amalgamation of any standard Western European nation.


Health care
Universal Education
Military defence
Secular governance
Freedom of speech
Agriculture
Equal rights between sexes/sexuality
National Welfare system
Economical infrastructure
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare.

[waterhog]

its to early for this - need a drink.

[Kizzy]

In the words of Beveridge the '5 giants' should be tackled first, Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness.
So following that principle..

National welfare
Healthcare
Universal education
Economic infrastructure
Farming practice/agriculture are equally as important.
Sexual equality and freedom of speech are equal too.
Military defence
secular governance

[Kyle]

Please feel free to add extra agenda's for another topic I have in mind as I did this quite quickly and have missed loads out

A couple that have sprung to mind

Transportation and Roads
Investments in space travel and search for extra terrestrial resources
Sport and public leisure facilities

[Kizzy]

I was going to say you haven't mentioned housing.

[Kyle]

I was going to say you haven't mentioned housing.

Yep good one Kizzy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

economy
immigration
nhs

[Novo]

Better ties with China and Russia so I guess Economy, the Brics deal will work wonders for the Countries involved

[user104658]

Freedom of Speech

Secular governance

(Vital, above all else. None of the rest of it will ever work properly without this at the top of the agenda)

National Welfare system

Universal Education

(Both Welfare and Education standards come before healthcare, because enlightened people need the healthcare system less or at least they should need it less, and as for welfare, people struggling to survive on nothing are invariably less healthy)

Health care

Economical infrastructure

Agriculture

Military defence

(This is only so far down the list when thinking about the UK, which realistically currently has very few threats besides terrorism, e.g. we are not at real risk of invasion of any kind. Full scale war between developed nations = the end of humanity. Its sort of a fruitless effort to try to have a traditional military defence against this sort of threat, and IMO the "war on terror" needs tearing apart and re-addressed in a completely new way by a completely different kind of military)

Equal rights between sexes/sexuality

(This is a civil issue for we the people to address and demand from one another, if the first two points which I pointed out are vital are upheld - freedom of speech and secular governance - then there shouldn't need to be government intervention here. It's not that this isn't an important issue - just that it's a social one, not a political one, in a truly free society.)

Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare

(As above, in a free society this isn't an issue for governance, it's an important issue but political enforcement isn't necessarily the way to tackle it)

[Kizzy]

Freedom of Speech

Secular governance

(Vital, above all else. None of the rest of it will ever work properly without this at the top of the agenda)

National Welfare system

Universal Education

(Both Welfare and Education standards come before healthcare, because enlightened people need the healthcare system less or at least they should need it less, and as for welfare, people struggling to survive on nothing are invariably less healthy)

Health care

Economical infrastructure

Agriculture

Military defence

(This is only so far down the list when thinking about the UK, which realistically currently has very few threats besides terrorism, e.g. we are not at real risk of invasion of any kind. Full scale war between developed nations = the end of humanity. Its sort of a fruitless effort to try to have a traditional military defence against this sort of threat, and IMO the "war on terror" needs tearing apart and re-addressed in a completely new way by a completely different kind of military)

Equal rights between sexes/sexuality

(This is a civil issue for we the people to address and demand from one another, if the first two points which I pointed out are vital are upheld - freedom of speech and secular governance - then there shouldn't need to be government intervention here. It's not that this isn't an important issue - just that it's a social one, not a political one, in a truly free society.)

Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare

(As above, in a free society this isn't an issue for governance, it's an important issue but political enforcement isn't necessarily the way to tackle it)

Define 'enlightened' in terms of an education system... Don't healthier people learn better?

I do believe that food standards and welfare of animals ( a primary food source for most) should and must be regulated by the government as the impact of bad practices can be catastrophic, episode such as the BSE crisis could have been prevented, therefore the development of CJD eradicated as one instance.

[Kyle]

I would imagine it's because the better educated someone is, the better choices they are likely to make with regards to personal health decisions?

[Kizzy]

I would imagine it's because the better educated someone is, the better choices they are likely to make with regards to personal health decisions?

What if they're too sick to learn?... it's the chicken and the egg :laugh:

[Kazanne]

Child protection
Health care
Housing
Criminal justice system
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare.
Economy
Animal Protection
Education.

[Kyle]

What if they're too sick to learn?... it's the chicken and the egg :laugh:

:laugh:

Well unless we are counting on a similar event to yersinia pestis that will wipe out a third of our nations populace I'm sure the odd 10 or 11 in every 1000 who are too sick to learn for whatever reason won't be too much of a burden to the vast majority.

Stuff yer chicken with that nugget then hen :wink:

[Kyle]

Child protection
Gerard Butler Statue
Health care
Housing
Gerard Butler sexual services ltd.
Criminal justice system
Gerard Butler educational foundation
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare.
Economy
Animal Protection
Education.

I see where your priorities lie Kaz :hehe:

[Kazanne]

I see where your priorities lie Kaz :hehe:

:joker::joker::joker: You know me too well Kyle:hehe:

[Kizzy]

:laugh:

Well unless we are counting on a similar event to yersinia pestis that will wipe out a third of our nations populace I'm sure the odd 10 or 11 in every 1000 who are too sick to learn for whatever reason won't be too much of a burden to the vast majority.

Stuff yer chicken with that nugget then hen :wink:

What about the flu, H1N1 could wipe out hundreds of thousands at the next mutation?

[Kyle]

What about the flu, H1N1 could wipe out hundreds of thousands at the next mutation?

It could, or we could all be struck by a meteor in which case we could discuss this in an underground bunker :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Well if you're not going to be seriarse :hmph:

[Kyle]

Well if you're not going to be seriarse :hmph:

I'm outta my depth here Kizzy lol, I know nowt about the likelihood of the flu virus mutating and causing widespread desolation before a vaccination can be distributed.

Is there a decent chance of it happening?

[Kizzy]

I'm outta my depth here Kizzy lol, I know nowt about the likelihood of the flu virus mutating and causing widespread desolation before a vaccination can be distributed.

Is there a decent chance of it happening?

Er.... No, * holds kyle and rocks*

[Kyle]

Er.... No, * holds kyle and rocks*

Poor Marsh :hehe:

[Shaun]

Health care - 10/10 - lives literally on the line, etc.
Universal Education - 8/10 - I'm guessing this includes tuition fees, which I'm ambivalent about because I'm not sure whether it's totally necessary to get into a career.
Military defence - 4/10
Secular governance - 9/10
Freedom of speech - 9/10
Agriculture - 5/10
Equal rights between sexes/sexuality - 9/10
National Welfare system - 9/10
Economical infrastructure - don't know nearly enough about this to make an informed judgment
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare. - 3/10

[JoshBB]

Health care - 10/10
Universal Education - 9/10
Military defence - 5/10
Secular governance - 9/10
Freedom of speech - 9/10
Agriculture - 6/10
Equal rights between sexes/sexuality - 10/10
National Welfare system - 9/10
Economical infrastructure - 9/10
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare - 8/10

[user104658]

Define 'enlightened' in terms of an education system... Don't healthier people learn better?

I get what you're saying but then I also think that healthy people making good choices, and importantly, motivated and hopeful people are less likely to need health care at all. Also, I think for better personal health education should be provided so that people would stop over using health care services. There would be no funding issue at all in the NHS if there wasn't so much waste. People go for vaccinations / antibiotics / GP appointments that are completely fruitless far too often... Over prescription, over diagnosis, and too many appointments and hospital visits are a huge problem and it's mainly because most people don't understand their own bodies or know when medical intervention is appropriate. The vast majority of health care spending is unnecessary: if people understood and trusted their bodies they would know better when it's more appropriate to simply rest up and heal.

The UK's education system is woefully inadequate when it comes to actual life skills and personal understanding, sadly. A better educated population, and one educated more fairly and with much more respect for individuality than what's there currently, would need a much smaller health care system to remain healthy. Unavoidable major health conditions aside (genetic conditions, cancers, accidents)... Most people should be able to be healthy for life, or at least until old age, without so much as sniffing a GP appointment.

I appreciate what you're saying about it all being intertwined, though. A better education system is impossible without first addressing some of the major inequalities in society, so that could easily bump both welfare and economic policy up the list.

[James]

Policing and the justice system are pretty important too, because without that it would be anarchy.

[Kyle]

Health and education are both obviously important but to me education would be the most important because;

+educated people should be more likely to make more health conscious decisions.

+greater education among the populace should result in a greater pool of talent to make scientific breakthroughs in healthcare in the future.

[Kyle]

Policing and the justice system are pretty important too, because without that it would be anarchy.

Yeh, bit pissed off I missed that one lol.

[Kizzy]

Raking this old chestnut kyle... slow news day? Without healthcare you're less likely to make it to school age, look at the infant mortality rates prior to the the advent of the NHS.
Great point James public services are extremely important and should never be sidelined, privatised or aligned with any political party ( as the police are now with 'commissioners')

[Kyle]

Raking this old chestnut kyle... slow news day? Without healthcare you're less likely to make it to school age, look at the infant mortality rates prior to the the advent of the NHS.
Great point James public services are extremely important and should never be sidelined, privatised or aligned with any political party ( as the police are now with 'commissioners')

Which I'm sure came about as a result of a greater education of the general public who no longer require the government to do everything for them kizzbot

What's the point of making it to school age if you have no voice because you have no idea how the world works?

[user104658]

Raking this old chestnut kyle... slow news day? Without healthcare you're less likely to make it to school age, look at the infant mortality rates prior to the the advent of the NHS.
Great point James public services are extremely important and should never be sidelined, privatised or aligned with any political party ( as the police are now with 'commissioners')

Infant mortality rates in the past were almost entirely down to malnutrition and poor sanitation... the (vast) majority of children in the western world these days reach adulthood without the need for much (if any) medical intervention at all.

[Kizzy]

Which I'm sure came about as a result of a greater education of the general public who no longer require the government to do everything for them kizzbot

What's the point of making it to school age if you have no voice because you have no idea how the world works?

It came about due to social reformists such as Joseph Rowntree.
The point is for a civilised ordered society everyone deserves a say.

[Kyle]

It came about due to social reformists such as Joseph Rowntree.
The point is for a civilised ordered society everyone deserves a say.

You aren't going to get a say if you live in a repressed population with access to education restricted only to those who are lucky enough to be born into it.

Education is the motivator to all other avenues. An educated population can not be as easily fooled or trodden down.

[Kizzy]

Infant mortality rates in the past were almost entirely down to malnutrition and poor sanitation... the (vast) majority of children in the western world these days reach adulthood without the need for much (if any) medical intervention at all.

Environmental issues such as air pollutants were a direct cause of respiratory disease , without healthcare there would be no screening for congenital abnormality, no assisted labour or antibiotics to guard against infectious and or parasitic disease.
Do I think that if the NHS were to be removed tomorrow there would be a drop in infant mortality? Yes absolutely.

[Kizzy]

You aren't going to get a say if you live in a repressed population with access to education restricted only to those who are lucky enough to be born into it.

Education is the motivator to all other avenues. An educated population can not be as easily fooled or trodden down.

You don't read the mail then?... :laugh:
We could go round and round, they are both important :)

[Kyle]

You don't read the mail then?... :laugh:
We could go round and round, they are both important :)

Cheers for accepting defeat Kizzy it's very humble of you. :tongue:

[Kizzy]

Cheers for accepting defeat Kizzy it's very humble of you. :tongue:

I accept you are not fully aware of the facts kyle :pat:

[Kyle]

I accept you are not fully aware of the facts kyle :pat:

And guess what's to blame for that Kizzy?

My Yorkshire EDUCATION! :fist:

[Kizzy]

And guess what's to blame for that Kizzy?

My Yorkshire EDUCATION! :fist:

Maybe you have an underlying undiagnosed health condition preventing you from understanding?

[Kyle]

Maybe you have an underlying undiagnosed health condition preventing you from understanding?

I'm afraid I do. 7 years ago on my 18th birthday I was officially diagnosed a man.

[Kizzy]

I'm afraid I do. 7 years ago on my 18th birthday I was officially diagnosed a man.

That's terrible poor you, on my 18th I was diagnosed a ball breaker.. it's a cross I have to bear :laugh:

[Kyle]

That's terrible poor you, on my 18th I was diagnosed a ball breaker.. it's a cross I have to bear :laugh:

:laugh: and here was me thinking you would take to that role like a duck would take to water.

[Raph]

Rate what is more important to a society in your opinion on a scale of 1 for least important and 10 for most important.

The society in question is roughly based on amalgamation of any standard Western European nation.


Health care
Universal Education
Military defence
Secular governance
Freedom of speech
Agriculture
Equal rights between sexes/sexuality
National Welfare system
Economical infrastructure
Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare.

Good idea!

1. Universal Education
2. Health Care
3. Secular Governance
4. Economical Infrastructure
5. Agriculture
6. National Welfare system
7. Military Defence
8. Ethical Animal husbandry and welfare
9. Freedom of Speech
10. Equal rights between sexes (Although the sexualities thing id prioritize more just not the gender crap)

[Kyle]

Can I ask why you put secular governance so high up in your list please Raph?

Just curious mate that's all.

[user104658]

Environmental issues such as air pollutants were a direct cause of respiratory disease , without healthcare there would be no screening for congenital abnormality, no assisted labour or antibiotics to guard against infectious and or parasitic disease.
Do I think that if the NHS were to be removed tomorrow there would be a drop in infant mortality? Yes absolutely.

I'm not saying that there wouldn't be an increase in mortality rates (of all age ranges) without free health care, I do think free health care is vital to a fair society, but I also know that there is a shocking amount of waste in the current system and that if people were better educated on when it's appropriate to seek out a doctor and when it's more appropriate to just do a bit of home nursing and TLC then a lot of money would be saved. E. G people rush to the doctors for infant fever when there's no need at all unless there's an accompanying rash or the fever tops 40 - bed and plenty of fluids is all that's needed. Likewise, people seek antibiotic prescriptions (and they are handed out) far too quickly for infections that could and should be fought naturally (to stop antibiotic resistance and strengthen natural immunity). Also people taking up GP and hospital time for nothing at all simply because they don't know what is or isn't a perfectly normal quirk of the human body. All of this should be covered by the education system, it's as important (if not more important??) than literacy and numeracy. It would save the health service a huge amount of money and get the whole thing running more smoothly and efficiently at the same time.

I'd certainly never advocate removal of free health care, it would be a disaster, because as I said there are of course unavoidable medical issues such as genetic problems, cancers, and of course accidents and broken bones that all must be treated, for free, promptly, and without question.

[kirklancaster]

I see where your priorities lie Kaz :hehe:

"Gerard Butler Statue" ---:joker::joker::joker: