Judy Finnigan forced into humiliating apology

[arista]

Judy Finnigan forced into humiliating apology on her first day on Loose Women after excusing rape by footballer because it 'wasn't violent and the victim was drunk'

Evans, 25, was jailed for five years in 2012 after raping a 19-year-old woman
Speaking on Loose Women, veteran broadcaster Finnigan said: 'The rape was not violent... he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person'
The 66-year-old added: 'It was unpleasant... she had far too much to drink'
Her comments on the live show sparked immediate outrage on social media
100,000 people have signed petition to prevent Evans from returning to play
Finnigan has since 'apologised unreservedly' for any offence caused


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2790939/outrage-judy-finnigan-says-rapist-footballer-ched-evans-allowed-rejoin-club-rape-wasn-t-violent-girl-drunk.html#ixzz3G7IXcFLc

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/13/video-undefined-22301B1300000578-137_638x372.jpg

She is on loads of Front pages


http://www.geekalerts.com/u/jabba-the-hutt-figurine.jpg
this Not Her

[Crimson Dynamo]

She got herself trapped in the fact that the word rape covers such a huge range of circumstances and that by pointing out degrees of badness you are not condoning any of them

[arista]

She is Not on the Panel Today


Only done one day.

[Crimson Dynamo]

2 weeks worth of good PR for LW

[Niamh.]

She got herself trapped in the fact that the word rape covers such a huge range of circumstances and that by pointing out degrees of badness you are not condoning any of them

whilst I get what you're saying it seems to only ever apply to rape that it "not being that bad" is pointed out. Like if someone was murdered by being shot in the head, you're not going to hear someone say well it could have been worse, he could have been tortured first

[Livia]

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

[Niamh.]

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

Of course you're a victim if you're raped..... drunk or not

[lostalex]

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

bull****/ if it was a young man who was raped while passed out by a gay man no one would be blaming the pissed lad. no one would be saying "well he shouldn't have gotten drunk with his mates, if you get pissed with your mates, you should expect this sort of thing"

[Livia]

Of course you're a victim if you're raped..... drunk or not

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

[Crimson Dynamo]

whilst I get what you're saying it seems to only every apply to rape that it "not being that bad" is pointed out. Like if someone was murdered by being shot in the head, you're not going to hear someone say well it could have been worse, he could have been tortured first

There are degrees there too. Beheading someone with a chainsaw is a worse way to die than say being shot in the back of the head at close range

[Ross.]

She is Not on the Panel Today


Only done one day.

They rotate panellists on LW tho

[Niamh.]

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

No, drunk drivers are essentially in charge of a weapon and are liable to injure not only themselves but other people if they choose to drink and drive. Also, drink driving is illegal, getting drunk in general is not. Should people try to keep themselves safe? of course they should. Should people accept any blame when they're raped, attacked, robbed etc No, that always goes fully to the perpetrator of the crime imo

There are degrees there too. Beheading someone with a chainsaw is a worse way to die than say being shot in the back of the head at close range

I know there is, that wasn't the point I was making in my previous post though

[Smithy]

No, drunk drivers are essentially in charge of a weapon and are liable to injury not only themselves but other people if they choose to drink and drive. Also, drink driving is illegal, getting drunk in general is not. Should people try to keep themselves safe? of course they should. Should people accept any blame when they're raped, attacked, robbed etc No, that always goes fully to the perpetrator of the crime imo



Exactly, maybe teach men not to rape women rather than teaching women not to get drunk because they could be attacked

[Shaun]

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

Generally speaking one would think that a car is a little less liable to think "hang on, let's not rape and batter this girl" than a man should be...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

[lostalex]

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

what you just said makes no sense, how could she not give consent and then withdraw consent that she never gave? or maybe you were just making a very clever post that points out the ridiculousness. either way, no is the answer to the question (no pun intended)

[arista]

They rotate panellists on LW tho


Sure but she has done one day and hit Front Pages

[Niamh.]

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

If that was the case then the footballer would not have been found guilty, consent is consent, drunk or not :shrug:

[arista]

what you just said makes no sense, how could she not give consent and then withdraw consent that she never gave? or maybe you were just making a very clever post that points out the ridiculousness. either way, no is the answer to the question (no pun intended)


Not the same as USA Laws


and this Rapist Football is debuted on every UK media this week

[MTVN]

This was a strange case because Evans friend went back with this girl, text Evans about it and so he followed to the hotel room and had sex with her after his friend did. The woman woke up with no recollection and accused both men of rape, but Evans was found guilty and his friend wasn't which seemed like a strange verdict.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The trial took place at the Crown Court at Caernarfon in April 2012 before Judge Merfyn Hughes QC and a jury. Evans and McDonald admitted to having sex with the woman, but both denied raping her.[13] Counsel for the prosecution, John Philpotts, stated that the victim, a 19-year-old waitress, was too intoxicated to have consented.[14][15] The court heard that the victim had woken up naked and confused in a double bed with her clothes on the floor and no memory of the incident.[16] Samples taken from the victim at the time showed no alcohol, although the Crown claimed this was due to "elimination".[17] The samples showed traces of cocaine and cannabis, although she denied taking the drugs on the night of the incident.[18] She had drunk two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade, and a shot of sambuca.[18] As a result, she told police she "felt tipsy but not out of control".[19] The victim claimed to have almost no memory of what happened between leaving a dancing session with friends and waking up the following morning, leading her to believe that her drink had been spiked.[18] The defence stated both men had sex with the woman separately and with her consent, while the prosecution submitted that the pair "targeted" her for sex after she "literally stumbled across their path" and demonstrated herself to be too intoxicated to consent. Two friends of the men were also alleged to have watched and attempted to record the act through a window


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans_and_McDonald

[Niamh.]

The trial took place at the Crown Court at Caernarfon in April 2012 before Judge Merfyn Hughes QC and a jury. Evans and McDonald admitted to having sex with the woman, but both denied raping her.[13] Counsel for the prosecution, John Philpotts, stated that the victim, a 19-year-old waitress, was too intoxicated to have consented.[14][15] The court heard that the victim had woken up naked and confused in a double bed with her clothes on the floor and no memory of the incident.[16] Samples taken from the victim at the time showed no alcohol, although the Crown claimed this was due to "elimination".[17] The samples showed traces of cocaine and cannabis, although she denied taking the drugs on the night of the incident.[18] She had drunk two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade, and a shot of sambuca.[18] As a result, she told police she "felt tipsy but not out of control".[19] The victim claimed to have almost no memory of what happened between leaving a dancing session with friends and waking up the following morning, leading her to believe that her drink had been spiked.[18] The defence stated both men had sex with the woman separately and with her consent, while the prosecution submitted that the pair "targeted" her for sex after she "literally stumbled across their path" and demonstrated herself to be too intoxicated to consent. Two friends of the men were also alleged to have watched and attempted to record the act through a window


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans_and_McDonald

By that account it does sound like she was targeted by the men. One of them brought her back to a hotel room, called his friend over to have sex with her and presumably more than just that friend was called if two more of them were watching through a window and recording it....

[Cherie]

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

Of course everyone man or woman should take responsibility for themselves, (men can be raped too), but what you are talking about is completely different thing. If someone is drunk and goes on to commit a crime that is their responsibility, driving while under the influence is a crime, if someone is drunk and another person takes advantage of the fact and commits a crime against the drunk person the drunk person has not committed a crime and should not be held responsible for the other persons actions.

[Niamh.]

Of course everyone man or woman should take responsibility for themselves, (men can be raped too), but what you are talking about is completely different thing. If someone is drunk and goes on to commit a crime that is their responsibility, driving while under the influence is a crime, if someone is drunk and another person takes advantage of the fact and commits a crime against the drunk person the drunk person has not committed a crime and should not be held responsible for the other persons actions.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

So are we saying that men should not bang drunk women?

or at what stage do you think, hang on she is too pissed and wont remember this

[Niamh.]

So are we saying that men should not bang drunk women?

or at what stage do you think, hang on she is too pissed and wont remember this

Well, from the sounds of that article you posted regarding this case, the guy that she'd actually met while out wasn't convicted of rape at all. That case doesn't sound like a typical drunk girl gets drunk and regrets sex the next morning type either

[Livia]

The vast majority of men know that to rape a woman in any circumstances is wrong. But rape has been going on since humans have been populating the earth, and you're not going to stop it by saying that a woman shouldn't have to take responsibility for herself. It's not like I'm saying men should be given carte blanche to rape a woman, but I've seen young women both on TV and in reality, pissed, sitting on the kerb, skirt up round their waist, totally insensible to anything that's going on around her. What a state to get into... She wouldn't know whether she was giving her consent or not... until the next morning when she's in charge of her own mind again. In my opinion, if you're drunk beyond knowing what you're doing, then you are deliberately putting yourself at risk. That's not to say a man should be able to rape you... just that, if he says you gave consent, how do you know he's wrong? If a sober woman doesn't give consent... that's a whole different story.

[Niamh.]

The vast majority of men know that to rape a woman in any circumstances is wrong. But rape has been going on since humans have been populating the earth, and you're not going to stop it by saying that a woman shouldn't have to take responsibility for herself. It's not like I'm saying men should be given carte blanche to rape a woman, but I've seen young women both on TV and in reality, pissed, sitting on the kerb, skirt up round their waist, totally insensible to anything that's going on around her. What a state to get into... She wouldn't know whether she was giving her consent or not... until the next morning when she's in charge of her own mind again. In my opinion, if you're drunk beyond knowing what you're doing, then you are deliberately putting yourself at risk. That's not to say a man should be able to rape you... just that, if he says you gave consent, how do you know he's wrong? If a sober woman doesn't give consent... that's a whole different story.

We're talking about people who were actually raped though, just because a person is drunk doesn't necessarily mean they're going to forget everything that happened the night before.

In the specific case that Judy commented on yes the girl said she can't remember what happened but it sounds like she may have been drugged, and the court must have thought so too considering they jailed this footballer for 5 years after hearing the evidence :shrug:

[Ramsay]

Wrecks that my tits that people have mysteriously forgotten that Mike Tyson was convicted of raping a girl back in 92 but now everyone loves him
If i was at player at Sheffield Utd i know i wouldn't want a rapist in the same dressing room as me. absolute muck.

[Livia]

We're talking about people who were actually raped though, just because a person is drunk doesn't necessarily mean they're going to forget everything that happened the night before.

In the specific case that Judy commented on yes the girl said she can't remember what happened but it sounds like she may have been drugged, and the court must have thought so too considering they jailed this footballer for 5 years after hearing the evidence :shrug:

I'm very sorry she was raped, I'm very sorry anyone is raped, it's a truly horrific thing to happen. So surely the message should be, take responsibility for your own safety and don't get so drunk you can't take care of yourself.

[Livia]

Wrecks that my tits that people have mysteriously forgotten that Mike Tyson was convicted of raping a girl back in 92 but now everyone loves him
If i was at player at Sheffield Utd i know i wouldn't want a rapist in the same dressing room as me. absolute muck.

Mike Tyson was convicted of raping Desiree Washington in 1992 after she willingly accompanied him back to his hotel room at 3am. I'm not sure what she imagines she was going back there to do at that time. She also had a history of rape accusations, and she made a packet from the case, which I'm sure salved her hurt somewhat.

[Niamh.]

I'm very sorry she was raped, I'm very sorry anyone is raped, it's a truly horrific thing to happen. So surely the message should be, take responsibility for your own safety and don't get so drunk you can't take care of yourself.

What message? That if you're drunk when you get raped the guy who raped you shouldn't lose his job? cos that's what Judy was saying...

[Bluerang1]

Livia has a valid point. Is all drunk sex, that is both parties are drunk, considered rape because neither, or the female which is always the case, was intoxicated so couldn't give consent? This is a big issue here at my college but I mean if you willingly go out to get blackout drunk you should know that there will be consequences. It's annoyed me when someone said "don't leave your drunk friends to wander about by themselves". Friends are not other friends keepers. Adults should be able to take care of themselves without needing others to clean up their messes.

[Livia]

What message? That if you're drunk when you get raped the guy who raped you shouldn't lose his job? cos that's what Judy was saying...

What Judy is saying is what she's saying. What I'm saying is, don't get so drunk you might get raped. There are bad people out there so take some responsibility.

[Amy Jade]

Sounds to me like his friend had sex with her and she was so drunk she had passed out and the friend sent the dirty rapist a text to come get some.

Rape doesn't have to be a violent thing, would Judy or anyone else defending him still defend him if it was their daughter in the drunk girls position? doubt it.

[Livia]

Having just read Judy Finnigan's words, I think the whole bloody thing has been blown out of proportion.

[arista]

Having just read Judy Finnigan's words, I think the whole bloody thing has been blown out of proportion.


Yes but Every Paper attacked her
as it was her first time on the new Revamped
Loose Women

[Livia]

Yes but Every Paper attacked her
as it was her first time on the new Revamped
Loose Women

Slow news day.

[Niamh.]

Having just read Judy Finnigan's words, I think the whole bloody thing has been blown out of proportion.

I disagree completely

[lostalex]

Livia has a valid point. Is all drunk sex, that is both parties are drunk, considered rape because neither, or the female which is always the case, was intoxicated so couldn't give consent? This is a big issue here at my college but I mean if you willingly go out to get blackout drunk you should know that there will be consequences. It's annoyed me when someone said "don't leave your drunk friends to wander about by themselves". Friends are not other friends keepers. Adults should be able to take care of themselves without needing others to clean up their messes.


there is a big difference between 2 people having drinks together, having a good time and capping off the evening with a shag, VS 4 drunk men finding a drunk woman stumbling around on the street that they've never met and bringing her home to have their way with her.

a huuuuge difference. imho.

[Bluerang1]

Oh that Judy! She's so old now.

[Livia]

Oh that Judy! She's so old now.

The years haven't been kind to her, have they.

[Bluerang1]

there is a big difference between 2 people having drinks together, having a good time and capping off the evening with a shag, VS 4 drunk men finding a drunk woman stumbling around on the street that they've never met and bringing her home to have their way with her.

Well at my school drunk girls seem to call rape after nights with one guy so that's where my perspective is from. And there's no difference whether it's one or two. If a girl doesn't want to have sex but is too drunk to think for herself, and so is some random guy she meets at a bar, how is he at fault if she calls rape the next morning? They were out of their minds.

This is why I don't drink, I don't want to not be in control of myself.

[Niamh.]

Well at my school drunk girls seem to call rape after nights with one guy so that's where my perspective is from. And there's no difference whether it's one or two. If a girl doesn't want to have sex but is too drunk to think for herself, and so is some random guy she meets at a bar, how is he at fault if she calls rape the next morning? They were out of their minds.

This is why I don't drink, I don't want to not be in control of myself.

And these girls who "call rape" after a night out does the guy they accuse of rape get convicted? and how do you know that they weren't raped?

[lostalex]

Well at my school drunk girls seem to call rape after nights with one guy so that's where my perspective is from. And there's no difference whether it's one or two. If a girl doesn't want to have sex but is too drunk to think for herself, and so is some random guy she meets at a bar, how is he at fault if she calls rape the next morning? They were out of their minds.

This is why I don't drink, I don't want to not be in control of myself.

If he was as drunk as you are implying in this hypothetical situation, he wouldn't even be able to get it up, it's called Whisky Dick. You are making it sound like there aren't tons of guys that specifically PREY upon drunk women, even joke about it with their mates. you sound very naive.

[bots]

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

Hmm, someone who is drunk is a vulnerable person, similar to a child or an old or sick person. The fact that the vulnerability was self inflicted by getting drunk is irrelevant. The weak and vulnerable should be able to live without fear of being attacked, full stop. If someone takes advantage of a vulnerable person, whatever they do, there should be a corresponding punishment. Its crystal clear in my opinion.

[Bluerang1]

If he was as drunk as you are implying in this hypothetical situation, he wouldn't even be able to get it up, it's called Whisky Dick. You are making it sound like there aren't tons of guys that specifically PREY upon drunk women, even joke about it with their mates. you sound very naive.

And you seem to always make excuses in favor of the girls.

[lostalex]

I think livia is just saying that everyone should be aware of dangerous circumstances. I think both men and women need to be more conscious of their actions, not just women. The same way we all lock our doors at night, but that doesn't mean that anyone deserves to get robbed if they forget one night.

A thief is still a thief even if you don't lock the doors, and a rapist is still a rapist even if you had a few drinks.

[Niamh.]

I think livia is just saying that everyone should be aware of dangerous circumstances. I think both men and women need to be more conscious of their actions, not just women. The same way we all lock our doors at night, but that doesn't mean that anyone deserves to get robbed if they forget one night.

A thief is still a thief even if you don't lock the doors, and a rapist is still a rapist even if you had a few drinks.

I agree with this

[Bluerang1]

Same.

[Creggle]

Just want to throw it out there that Tyson didn't rape that hoe, as pointed out earlier in the thread. The fact he served jail time, had to pay her money and the fact it ruined him mentally in his boxing career makes her just as disgusting as a rapist. He's still banned from entering the UK... Lol...

This is also why rape is such an eggshell subject tbh. Whilst it's terrible when it actually happens, there are so many sick, disgusting people out there (both men and women) who enjoy lying about it, whether it's dreaming up a fake past situation and convincing people it happened for the attention, or falsely accusing someone of raping them for £, or the lols. They are as bad as rapists.

[Niamh.]

Just want to throw it out there that Tyson didn't rape that hoe, as pointed out earlier in the thread. The fact he served jail time, had to pay her money and the fact it ruined him mentally in his boxing career makes her just as disgusting as a rapist. He's still banned from entering the UK... Lol...

This is also why rape is such an eggshell subject tbh. Whilst it's terrible when it actually happens, there are so many sick, disgusting people out there (both men and women) who enjoy lying about it, whether it's dreaming up a fake past situation and convincing people it happened for the attention, or falsely accusing someone of raping them for £, or the lols. They are as bad as rapists.

How can you say that with absolute certainty about Mike Tyson? He was convicted of it, they must have had good reason for finding him guilty. Is it because you like Mike Tyson?

[lostalex]

How can you say that with absolute certainty about Mike Tyson? He was convicted of it, they must have had good reason for finding him guilty. Is it because you like Mike Tyson?

He's being sarcastic. No one could be that dumb. (i hope)

[Creggle]

How can you say that with absolute certainty about Mike Tyson? He was convicted of it, they must have had good reason for finding him guilty. Is it because you like Mike Tyson?

She has a history of false rape accusations and just so happened to get a ton of money off of it. She ruined his life and his reputation for a payout. Me liking him doesn't effect my opinion on it, people are wrongly convicted all the time, i'd say it's more likely she wanted an easy payout than Tyson risking raping someone. Why on earth would you go to somebodies hotel room at 3am in the morning? Look at his stamp collection? LOL.

I bet half way through she was thinking to herself, 'Gotcha.' :rant:

If you put all the facts together there's alot more point at her guilt than his, but because rape is such an awful crime it's almost as if the accusation of something so serious just overrides any sort of logic. Just incase he 'did'.

He's being sarcastic. No one could be that dumb. (i hope)

I'm sure you have some lovely strong points as to why my opinions are dumb. Of course, it's not that you're naive or anything...

[lostalex]

I'm sure you have some lovely strong points as to why my opinions are dumb. Of course, it's not that you're naive or anything...

Besides that fact that it's well documented with plenty of forensic evidence and it has been confirmed by many of his other exes that he is a violent abusive rapist, oh yea, and the fact that he BIT A MAN'S EAR OFF ON LIVE TELEVISION.

but like i said, i know you are being sarcastic. ;)

now tell me what you think about O.J. :D

[Niamh.]

She has a history of false rape accusations and just so happened to get a ton of money off of it. She ruined his life and his reputation for a payout. Me liking him doesn't effect my opinion on it, people are wrongly convicted all the time, i'd say it's more likely she wanted an easy payout than Tyson risking raping someone. Why on earth would you go to somebodies hotel room at 3am in the morning? Look at his stamp collection? LOL.

I bet half way through she was thinking to herself, 'Gotcha.' :rant:

If you put all the facts together there's alot more point at her guilt than his, but because rape is such an awful crime it's almost as if the accusation of something so serious just overrides any sort of logic. Just incase he 'did'.

His defense claimed that she had accused one person of rape before and her lawyer denied that was true. There wasn't a history of false accusations at all

Also agreeing to go to someones room doesn't mean you can't change your mind and it isn't evidence that you agreed to have sex. To add to that Mike Tyson does have a history of violence towards women which he's actually admitted to himself

[Marsh.]

What Judy is saying is what she's saying. What I'm saying is, don't get so drunk you might get raped. There are bad people out there so take some responsibility.

I agree. It's not excusing the rapist's disgusting actions, it's being responsible for your own safety.

The same as when you're asked to not leave your own belongings unattended in an airport or something. It doesn't mean that it's the victims fault that the criminal has committed a crime, but leaving your bags unattended is making it too easy for that criminal to act.

[Marsh.]

Hmm, someone who is drunk is a vulnerable person, similar to a child or an old or sick person. The fact that the vulnerability was self inflicted by getting drunk is irrelevant. The weak and vulnerable should be able to live without fear of being attacked, full stop. If someone takes advantage of a vulnerable person, whatever they do, there should be a corresponding punishment. Its crystal clear in my opinion.

But in a similar vein, a responsible adult should know to take care of themselves and not leave themselves in such a vulnerable position.

The same way an adult would not leave a child in a vulnerable situation to be kidnapped. That's not to say it's their fault a kidnapper acts, but there are precautions to be taken to try and ensure danger does not strike. That's just common sense IMO.

Leaving yourself so drunk you're alone, vulnerable, have no control over your body or mind then you are leaving yourself open to a multitude of dangers not just rape.

[Creggle]

His defense claimed that she had accused one person of rape before and her lawyer denied that was true. There wasn't a history of false accusations at all

Also agreeing to go to someones room doesn't mean you can't change your mind and it isn't evidence that you agreed to have sex. To add to that Mike Tyson does have a history of violence towards women which he's actually admitted to himself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlRawW--T24

Well, you can happily have sex with somebody and then say they raped you after and that's all the evidence you'd need. Just because he has a history of violence doesn't mean he is a rapist. Women like her are the predators. She sat through the entire trial and everything that came before and after (lots of TV show deals surprise surprise) with a creepy sadistic grin on her face, she never once gave any signs she's been through something as traumatic as rape. Even on the phone to 911 she was like 'errr, yeah i've kinda been like :whistle: raped' 'do you know the person?' 'well he's like, kinda famous :hehe:' Also, Tyson's jaw dropping honesty about pretty much everything he talks about gives the impression he'd happilly admit to doing it if he did at this point, yet to this day he says that he's outraged at the fact he'll go down in history as a rapist because of her, and rightly so.

It would seem like people don't wish to ever look at a man's innocence when it comes to rape, as they fear it could come across as condoning it. :idc: (general statement btw)

[lostalex]

I agree. It's not excusing the rapist's disgusting actions, it's being responsible for your own safety.

The same as when you're asked to not leave your own belongings unattended in an airport or something. It doesn't mean that it's the victims fault that the criminal has committed a crime, but leaving your bags unattended is making it too easy for that criminal to act.

but there is a double standard, when a guy is raped by another guy, no one says "well men shouldn't drink too much. men should be more careful to not drink so much" and you know that's true. I've never heard anyone try to blame a str8 man for getting drunk and getting raped. the media doesn't even like to report male rapes, which also says a lot, because there is also something in our society that men LIKE to hear about women getting raped, it fits into the narrative that women are weak and victims, and that men are powerful and sexual beasts.

[Marsh.]

but there is a double standard, when a guy is raped by another guy, no one says "well men shouldn't drink too much. men should be more careful to not drink so much" and you know that's true. I've never heard anyone try to blame a str8 man for getting drunk and getting raped. the media doesn't even like to report male rapes, which also says a lot, because there is also something in our society that men LIKE to hear about women getting raped, it fits into the narrative that women are weak and victims, and that men are powerful and sexual beasts.

Well, yes, you have a point, which is separate to the point I was making.

I wasn't referring to women but to everyone using their common sense and taking responsibility for themselves.

[Z]

Generally speaking one would think that a car is a little less liable to think "hang on, let's not rape and batter this girl" than a man should be...

I dunno man, I heard this Volvo saying some pretty dark **** the other night when I was walking home

[Marsh.]

I dunno man, I heard this Volvo saying some pretty dark **** the other night when I was walking home

Are you one of those people who has love affairs with motor vehicles? :worry:

[Z]

Are you one of those people who has love affairs with motor vehicles? :worry:

You're telling me you've never looked at a Smart car and thought damn...?

On a serious note, I agree with you and Livia about rape deterrents. You're a victim regardless of the circumstances but you've got a better chance at not being a victim if you're in control of your mental faculties; getting really hammered, having sex with someone who's taking advantage of you and then being upset about it isn't the same as being stalked and brutally attacked or being assaulted by someone you know in a safe environment or any other kind of rape, in my opinion. The comparison with the leaving baggage unattended is pretty spot on.

[lostalex]

this car is cute (i had this toy as a kid)

G-99GatcJY8

[Z]

Do you think she was... forced... to apologise... against her will...? :hehe:

[Livia]

I agree. It's not excusing the rapist's disgusting actions, it's being responsible for your own safety.

The same as when you're asked to not leave your own belongings unattended in an airport or something. It doesn't mean that it's the victims fault that the criminal has committed a crime, but leaving your bags unattended is making it too easy for that criminal to act.

And continuing on from that... someone on this thread said, suppose it was your daughter. Well, suppose it was your son or your brother... he gets a bit pissed has sex with a girl who's also a bit pissed, next morning she decides she didn't give consent and has been raped. There is evidence of intercourse and its her word against his. It's a very contentious issue.

If a man rapes a woman (or another man for that matter) after she (or he) has made it clear that they don't want to have sex, then that's a horrible crime and he should go to jail, it would be absolutely the right thing to happen. However, Bring drink into the equation and the issue isn't quite so clear cut.

[smudgie]

Quite silly having to aplogise, it was her personal opinion, on a show that is all about opinions and chat.

The question she answered to was if he should be allowed back into the football limelight. Very difficult, once someone has served their time, should they then be punished again by losing their livelihood and lifestyle.
The price of fame perhaps.

As to the rape issue, I do think it is such a muddy subject at times, I really think we should have degrees of rape..and the punishment to fit the degree.

[arista]

Quite silly having to aplogise, it was her personal opinion, on a show that is all about opinions and chat.

The question she answered to was if he should be allowed back into the football limelight. Very difficult, once someone has served their time, should they then be punished again by losing their livelihood and lifestyle.
The price of fame perhaps.

As to the rape issue, I do think it is such a muddy subject at times, I really think we should have degrees of rape..and the punishment to fit the degree.


ITV were not going to
and due to all the Front Pages with her
the Loose Women legal team would advise her to

[arista]

Do you think she was... forced... to apologise... against her will...? :hehe:


Loose Women is more important
that dear old Judy


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/14/article-2792301-22387FAF00000578-744_636x382.jpg

[Marsh.]

Do you think she was... forced... to apologise... against her will...? :hehe:

D: :fan:

[Livia]

Quite silly having to aplogise, it was her personal opinion, on a show that is all about opinions and chat.

The question she answered to was if he should be allowed back into the football limelight. Very difficult, once someone has served their time, should they then be punished again by losing their livelihood and lifestyle.
The price of fame perhaps.

As to the rape issue, I do think it is such a muddy subject at times, I really think we should have degrees of rape..and the punishment to fit the degree.

I'm with you all the way on this one Smudgie.

[arista]

Richard Madeley calls police over trolls' threats to rape daughter Chloe after wife Judy's comments about rapist footballer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793677/richard-madeley-calls-police-trolls-threaten-rape-wife-judy-finnigan-following-comments-earlier-week.html#ixzz3GDGmri5c


Feck Me - Calling the Police


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/15/1413362704070_Image_galleryImage_Richard_Madeley_t weets.JPG

[Niamh.]

Richard Madeley calls police over trolls' threats to rape daughter Chloe after wife Judy's comments about rapist footballer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793677/richard-madeley-calls-police-trolls-threaten-rape-wife-judy-finnigan-following-comments-earlier-week.html#ixzz3GDGmri5c


Feck Me - Calling the Police


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/15/1413362704070_Image_galleryImage_Richard_Madeley_t weets.JPG


ffs all this internet troll stuff is way out of control, who'd have thought there were was so many "brave" people sitting behind their computer screens :rolleyes:

[Livia]

ffs all this internet troll stuff is way out of control, who'd have thought there were was so many "brave" people sitting behind their computer screens :rolleyes:

LOL... I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY! But I won't.

[arista]

ffs all this internet troll stuff is way out of control, who'd have thought there were was so many "brave" people sitting behind their computer screens :rolleyes:



yes but no one is going to Rape their Daughter



It appears this is just to get their failed daughter in the Press

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/15/article-2793677-223D36D700000578-261_308x453.jpg

[Niamh.]

LOL... I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY! But I won't.

oh dear :laugh:

[Livia]

oh dear :laugh:

Yeah, I know what you mods are like. I don't want to be locked in that cupboard again.

[arista]

Now BBC1 News just showed a clip of Judy
on ITV1HD Loose Women.

And spoke of the tweet rape threat
to her daughter


And they are on many front pages

[Livia]

So... people upset by Judy's comments about a rapist, as it's such a terrible and sensistive subject, feel perfectly justified in threatening rape against her daughter who said nothing at all about the case. And I didn't think I could hold Twitter in any more contempt than I already do.

People moan about attempts to police the Internet. It's people who abuse their right to comment who will end up being the reason for all of us being policed online.

[Niamh.]

So... people upset by Judy's comments about a rapist, as it's such a terrible and sensistive subject, feel perfectly justified in threatening rape against her daughter who said nothing at all about the case. And I didn't think I could hold Twitter in any more contempt than I already do.

People moan about attempts to police the Internet. It's people who abuse their right to comment who will end up being the reason for all of us being policed online.

I know right. People are idiots

[lostalex]

i think it's more about keeping things in perspective. if someone is sending you weird things in the post(mail), or leaving things at your door step it's very serious.... but we've all said things on the internet that we regret, made extreme comments on youtube. It's important to remember the difference between the internet and real life. When it carries into real life, real letters, or real stalking that's a totally different thing. We've all said something offensive online in the heat of the moment, but someone who is obsessing about an individual and terrorizing them is different. Some of these celebrities pretend to be terrorized just because someone left a nasty comment on their youtube video or on twitter, and they are abusing the system to get more sympathy.

I'm an asshole, but i've never terrorized anyone.

[Amy Jade]

i think it's more about keeping things in perspective. if someone is sending you weird things in the post(mail), or leaving things at your door step it's very serious.... but we've all said things on the internet that we regret, made extreme comments on youtube. It's important to remember the difference between the internet and real life.
I totally agree.

Threatening to rape Chloe is utterly repulsive though but do comments made in jest really warrant prosecution? I don't know.

[Livia]

I totally agree.

Threatening to rape Chloe is utterly repulsive though but do comments made in jest really warrant prosecution? I don't know.

If the comment made in jest is threatening to rape an innocent women, then **** yeah it warrants prosecution. And these people are easier to trace than they would believe.

[lostalex]

If the comment made in jest is threatening to rape an innocent women, then **** yeah it warrants prosecution. And these people are easier to trace than they would believe.

it's not always serious though Livia, saying "i will rape you, and then you will be pregnant with my child, and then I will fist you until you have an abortion" is not a serious threat, it's just an internet comment. is it crass and disgusting? yes. now if the same person starts stalking that person, or obsesses about it that person, then sure, but treating every extreme comment as a threat is not right.

The internet is not real life. If it moves into real life, then of course the police should be involved, but most comments are just trolling and trolling should not be illegal. If trolling was illegal

I could make a case that the Entire Guardian Website is trolling! HOW MANY times did i hear comments on the Guardian that George W Bush should be water boarded, should we have treated all of those comments as "threats against the president"? everyone who has people disagreeing with them can claim that they are being
"trolled". where would you draw the line.

The police should only get involved when it becomes a REAL issue. someone who is near the person, and is directly threatened.

hyperbole is not a crime.

[Amy Jade]

If the comment made in jest is threatening to rape an innocent women, then **** yeah it warrants prosecution. And these people are easier to trace than they would believe.

Since we don't know what exactly even happened I won't even debate with you on that one :flutter:

[Livia]

Since we don't know what exactly even happened I won't even debate with you on that one :flutter:

Oh right. As you'd already commented on a debate thread I thought you had something to say.

[Livia]

it's not always serious though Livia, saying "i will rape you, and then you will be pregnant with my child, and then I will fist you until you have an abortion" is not a serious threat, it's just an internet comment. is it crass and disgusting? yes. now if the same person starts stalking that person, or obsesses about it that person, then sure, but treating every extreme comment as a threat is not right.

The internet is not real life. If it moves into real life, then of course the police should be involved, but most comments are just trolling and trolling should not be illegal. If trolling was illegal I could make a case that the Entire Guardian Website is trolling! everyone who has people disagreeing with them can claim that they are being
"trolled". where would you draw the line.

The police should only get involved when it becomes a REAL issue. someone who is near the person, and is directly threatened.

hyperbole is not a crime.

Whatever you say on the Internet is covered by exactly the same laws of libel and slander that cover what you would say in real life. There is no difference. The Internet is VERY real if you're on the receiving end of bullies, if someone nicks your identity and passes themself off as you, if someone threatens to rape you... Saying it doesn't count is you say it on the internet is like saying it doesn't count if you say it indoors. It's irrelevant.

[lostalex]

We should judge people on their actions, not on their words or beliefs.

[Amy Jade]

Oh right. As you'd already commented on a debate thread I thought you had something to say.

Because I can see both sides. On one hand it's horrible to threaten rape on anyone but I haven't seen the comments or their context I don't see the point in debating it.

See, if one of the 'threats' was stated in a certain way like 'If I raped your daughter lets see if you'd want me back in the public eye and forever have to suffer seeing my face' etc I'd support that comment.

But as stated, the supposed threatening comments have not been published so what's the point in debating.

[lostalex]

Whatever you say on the Internet is covered by exactly the same laws of libel and slander that cover what you would say in real life. There is no difference. The Internet is VERY real if you're on the receiving end of bullies, if someone nicks your identity and passes themself off as you, if someone threatens to rape you... Saying it doesn't count is you say it on the internet is like saying it doesn't count if you say it indoors. It's irrelevant.

well stealing someone else's identity is a crime, that's true. and making a legitimate threat is also a crime. but making a ridiculous internet comment, like "I want to stuff your pussy with so many poprocks that it makes your vagina explode", is not a serious threat, obviously that person is not going to put poprocks in your pussy. it's obviously hyperbole.

How many threats are legitimate and how many are just hyperbole? I'd say 99.9% are hyperbole. if someone was really gonna hurt someone, they wouldn't advertise it on the internet before they did it.

[arista]

So... people upset by Judy's comments about a rapist, as it's such a terrible and sensistive subject, feel perfectly justified in threatening rape against her daughter who said nothing at all about the case. And I didn't think I could hold Twitter in any more contempt than I already do.

People moan about attempts to police the Internet. It's people who abuse their right to comment who will end up being the reason for all of us being policed online.


Yes Richard
keeps stating he has screen photos of the Trolls
and will get the Police on to them.



I feel a Docu' being made now

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

'The tougher sentencing laws have already been dubbed 'Chloe's Law' in light of Miss Madeley's protest against trolls.' :facepalm:

Tough on people talking smack on the internet, forgiving to ACTUAL rapists. How do you know the rape would have been violent Judy? :shrug:

Can't stand her. Her husband I can just about bear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798573/crackdown-cyber-mobs-poisoning-britain-sentence-web-trolls-quadrupled-two-years-shocking-high-profile-online-abuse-cases.html

[arista]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78378000/jpg/_78378552_mail.jpg

[arista]

Feck me


Katie Hopkins live on SkyNewsHD
she said she get a mess
saying a man will hold her down
while her children are killed.


Troll Debate will be on their site soon

[Samm]

I'm screaming at her being compared to that

http://www.geekalerts.com/u/jabba-the-hutt-figurine.jpg

[arista]

I'm screaming at her being compared to that

http://www.geekalerts.com/u/jabba-the-hutt-figurine.jpg


Yes its online they do just that

[Josy]

Great news about the sentencing for internet trolls tbh :clap1:

[Kizzy]

Yes shame it took someone famous being trolled to get some action though.

[arista]

Great news about the sentencing for internet trolls tbh :clap1:



Yes I hope we get some fast
in the Courts


I bet some may
live at home with mummy