Lying To Kids?

[kirklancaster]

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?

[Livia]

You could say that all fiction is lying so we shouldn't tell children stories. While convincing children that Santa exists isn't telling the truth, I wouldn't go quite so far as saying it's "lying". Like everything else, it's the intended consequence of the lie that's important.

Not sure I'm down with the 'witches' thing... what about Guy Fawkes? Witches belong at Halloween... but it's all personal.

[Kyle]

Well I believe that it's ok to lie in general if it's a good cause (telling someone who is clearly just about to bleed to death they are going to be ok/someone coming to the door with a machete asking for someone you have hiding in your basement etc) I don't personally see the harm in playing the whole Santa Claus/tooth fairy trope to stimulate the minds of the child.

I enjoyed it and when I grew up to realise it was a load of bull I also knew the context it was in and that it happens all over the place. Much a do about nothing.

[Jessica.]

Well, I don't agree with properly lying to kids, like saying their dad went to buy milk after he has been gone for three months. :hehe:

With some things, like christmas, you want the child to feel the magic, some people go a bit overboard, but I think it's fair, kids usually appreciate the effort when they find out it's all a scam.

The ones that really bother me is when people lie to their children and scare them because they don't know how to punish their own child.. "The security guard is going to kick you out", "The bogey man will get you if you leave your bed in the night", "the man will take you away if you don't stay with me when we go out". :bored: I think all of that is very idiotic.

(my sister uses harry potter to convince my niece to be good because she is scared of him :rolleyes:)

[Christmas Dynasnow]

If largest LT girl asks me who this present is from I still say Santa. My Chrimbo lies will be with me till the grave.

But if say smallest LT boy child says "what happens to me after I die?" I say nothing, you will rot or burn. If he says is Granny in heaven I say no, she is dead and that is that.

Life is hard and kids dont need sugar coating, apart from Chrimbo

oh and telling them their mum is great and not a scheming passive-aggressive self obsessed narcissist...






serentity now, serenity now, serenity NOW...

[Kyle]

If largest LT girl asks me who this present is from I still say Santa. My Chrimbo lies will be with me till the grave.

But if say smallest LT boy child says "what happens to me after I die?" I say nothing, you will rot or burn. If he says is Granny in heaven I say no, she is dead and that is that.

Life is hard and kids dont need sugar coating, apart from Chrimbo

oh and telling them their mum is great and not a scheming passive-aggressive self obsessed narcissist...






serentity now, serenity now, serenity NOW...

Who is mummy LT? I don't feel like I know her.

[Kazanne]

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?

I agree with this although as Livia said the witches probably more for Halloween ,Guy Fawkes for Bonfire Night,but I'm all for the stuff that makes kids lives magical,they lose that all too soon,so enjoy it all while they are kids I say,who could deny a childs face thinking they have seen Santa?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Who is mummy LT? I don't feel like I know her.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/cd857aeaf7bb3402e6b60e79c234801a/tumblr_mxzs2kh7vp1siwdl5o1_500.gif

[Kyle]

:joker:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

:joker:

I must put these wedding pics away now

[Kyle]

I must put these wedding pics away now

You got what you deserved then pal, I thought most succubus's hide their true form until after the honeymoon. Looks like she had already turned before you got to say I do.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

You got what you deserved then pal, I thought most succubus's hide their true form until after the honeymoon. Looks like she had already turned before you got to say I do.

I should have guessed when instead of turning up to the church in a vintage Rolls she rose from one of the sunken graves at the side of the Vestry

:suspect:

[Kyle]

I should have guessed when instead of turning up to the church in a vintage Rolls she rose from one of the sunken graves at the side of the Vestry

:suspect:

Not mention she had cousin IT fetch her vows :think:

[coffee]

I look after a little boy every single day and when he's bad I tell him Slenderman is going to come get him and take him to the dungeon of bad children and that he will never see his mum again if Slenderman gets him. He eventually stoped being scared of him so I showed him a clip of the American version of The Grudge where the ghost is under the womans cover so tell him now that the grudge will get him in his bed if he doesn't start doing what he's told. It makes him be good and it's really funny for me when he's bad 'cause I get to tell him these things and he gets really scared and says sorry. My parent's used to scare me all the time when I was little and so I'm just passing on my family values lol. Is it wrong of me to do this? Probably.

[kirklancaster]

I must put these wedding pics away now

:joker::joker::joker:

[Candy Annie Cane]

Children lose their innocence too fast now, Father Christmas, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy are all good in my opinion.

My son is nearly 4 and if he asks questions that need an truth or lie question, I won't lie. He is at an age where accepts that people die and you won't see them again without fully understanding the implication and moves on but I don't want to lie to him. He is very inquisitive and doesn't forget anything so I will be caught out if I try to lie and sugar coat things.

[JoshBB]

It's a lie by definition but I wouldn't put it in the same league. Have no issue with letting your kids have a bit of fun!

[smudgie]

As parens we are duty bound to try and gve our kids a magical childhood.
We even had Pixies at the end of our gaden.

[ChristmasNeeve]

As parens we are duty bound to try and gve our kids a magical childhood.
We even had Pixies at the end of our gaden.
:love:

[Kyle]

As parens we are duty bound to try and gve our kids a magical childhood.
We even had Pixies at the end of our gaden.

Bloody hell I hope your kids never accidentally walked into your wardrobe :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Bloody hell I hope your kids never accidentally walked into your wardrobe :hehe:

Because they'll find LT in there dressed in a PVC catsuit, 'Marilyn' wig and full make up. :hehe:

[Kyle]

Because they'll find LT in there dressed in a PVC catsuit, 'Marilyn' wig and full make up. :hehe:

:laugh:

I saw him more as Mr Tumnus :hehe:

https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/uploads/media/photo_592_large.jpg

[kirklancaster]

:laugh:

I saw him more as Mr Tumnus :hehe:

https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/uploads/media/photo_592_large.jpg

:joker::joker::joker::joker:

[andybigbro]

I think in terms of what you are sayig lying to kids is acceptable. There are things kids need to be lied to about.

For example, spoiling the magic of Christmas, having them believe in Santa is a wonderful thing and I know that when I was a young believing in Santa was the best thing ever.

Also children have to be lied to about serious matters because sometimes things are too graphic, or too explicit for their little ears/eyes.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Because they'll find LT in there dressed in a PVC catsuit, 'Marilyn' wig and full make up. :hehe:

lucky guess


:hmph:

[Cherry Christmas]

I look after a little boy every single day and when he's bad I tell him Slenderman is going to come get him and take him to the dungeon of bad children and that he will never see his mum again if Slenderman gets him. He eventually stoped being scared of him so I showed him a clip of the American version of The Grudge where the ghost is under the womans cover so tell him now that the grudge will get him in his bed if he doesn't start doing what he's told. It makes him be good and it's really funny for me when he's bad 'cause I get to tell him these things and he gets really scared and says sorry. My parent's used to scare me all the time when I was little and so I'm just passing on my family values lol. Is it wrong of me to do this? Probably.

Am i the only one to read this and think this is tantamount to abuse :suspect: I feel sorry for this boy you are probably giving him nightmares :nono: i hope he finds the courage to tell his parents and that you never get to work with kids again :idc:

[Marsh.]

lucky guess


:hmph:

I hope they don't find your....ahem.... toys.

[kirklancaster]

I think in terms of what you are sayig lying to kids is acceptable. There are things kids need to be lied to about.

For example, spoiling the magic of Christmas, having them believe in Santa is a wonderful thing and I know that when I was a young believing in Santa was the best thing ever.

Also children have to be lied to about serious matters because sometimes things are too graphic, or too explicit for their little ears/eyes.

I totally agree with this. They do need shielding from the bad things in life until they're old enough to deal with them. :wavey:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I totally agree with this. They do need shielding from the bad things in life until they're old enough to deal with them. :wavey:

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

[kirklancaster]

Am i the only one to read this and think this is tantamount to abuse :suspect: I feel sorry for this boy you are probably giving him nightmares :nono: i hope he finds the courage to tell his parents and that you never get to work with kids again :idc:

No Cherie, you echo my thoughts, but I genuinely thought this was somebody doing a 'wind up' for a reaction. :wavey:

[Cherry Christmas]

No Cherie, you echo my thoughts, but I genuinely thought this was somebody doing a 'wind up' for a reaction. :wavey:

Maybe! But scarey if this person is for real, be careful who you leave your kids with!

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I totally agree with this. They do need shielding from the bad things in life until they're old enough to deal with them. :wavey:

No Cherie, you echo my thoughts, but I genuinely thought this was somebody doing a 'wind up' for a reaction. :wavey:

its a wind-up

[Candy Annie Cane]

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

Agreed.....

If he asks. I tell my son the truth. I won't go out of my way to tell him horrible stuff but if he asks I tell him the truth.

[joeysteele]

I don't think there is anything wrong as to telling stories to Children,I knew my Dad was making up stories when he told me stories when I was little.

Father Christmas,now I know I am in a massive minority here,however I found everything as to him terrifying, really.
I could not sleep on Christmas eve from aged 3 to 5 for all the wrong reasons,because I was petrified he would come into my room.
I would go nowhere near him with my Parents in Stores,I even said I wanted nothing for Christmas so he didn't have to come to our house.
I wanted nothing from him.

I still don't know why I had such a bad feeling as to Santa Claus but I was massively relieved to learn before I reached 6 that he didn't exist and that it was my family that bought and gave the presents.
I believe I was 'huffed' a bit that they had let me be scared and not said he didn't exist before.

I don't know if it was the long beard or just the idea of him being able to get into houses and into my room that worried me so much but that is likely the only thing I wish even now and moreso then that my Parents had been fully honest with me as to him.

[kirklancaster]

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

I think kids discover the realities of life all by themselves as they grow and begin to socialise, but I have always explained matters such as life and death to them gradually - as they've grown, or when they've actually asked questions.

With religion, I left that to the schools they attended - for instance, they knew more about Allah and Mohammed than they did the four Evangelists because of school. Of my 3 children, only my daughter believes in Christ and God, and that's initially because she began to question and research for herself - just as I did.

I suppose every parent is different. I'm just grateful for the way my kids have turned out.

[kirklancaster]

I don't think there is anything wrong as to telling stories to Children,I knew my Dad was making up stories when he told me stories when I was little.

Father Christmas,now I know I am in a massive minority here,however I found everything as to him terrifying, really.
I could not sleep on Christmas eve from aged 3 to 5 for all the wrong reasons,because I was petrified he would come into my room.
I would go nowhere near him with my Parents in Stores,I even said I wanted nothing for Christmas so he didn't have to come to our house.
I wanted nothing from him.

I still don't know why I had such a bad feeling as to Santa Claus but I was massively relieved to learn before I reached 6 that he didn't exist and that it was my family that bought and gave the presents.
I believe I was 'huffed' a bit that they had let me be scared and not said he didn't exist before.

I don't know if it was the long beard or just the idea of him being able to get into houses and into my room that worried me so much but that is likely the only thing I wish even now and moreso then that my Parents had been fully honest with me as to him.

Wow -- It's never entered my mind that any kid could ever be frightened of Santa Joey. Made me think.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I think kids discover the realities of life all by themselves as they grow and begin to socialise, but I have always explained matters such as life and death to them gradually - as they've grown, or when they've actually asked questions.

With religion, I left that to the schools they attended - for instance, they knew more about Allah and Mohammed than they did the four Evangelists because of school. Of my 3 children, only my daughter believes in Christ and God, and that's initially because she began to question and research for herself - just as I did.

I suppose every parent is different. I'm just grateful for the way my kids have turned out.

I wish they did not teach religion at schools - it wastes up valuable time when they could be learning real things.

[coffee]

Am i the only one to read this and think this is tantamount to abuse :suspect: I feel sorry for this boy you are probably giving him nightmares :nono: i hope he finds the courage to tell his parents and that you never get to work with kids again :idc:

The parents know I told him this. He's a good kid but one of those ones that have a real mean streak if you know what I mean. The parents know exactly everything that I tell him because myself and the little boy tell them. I don't think it's abuse. If a kid won't stop being rotten then make them scared to be rotten. It's not like I'm dressing up as something scary and going to his room at night to freak him out I'm just telling him spooky stories and showed him 1 clip from a horror movie. His damn Father teaches him to hate homosexuals but I should never work with kids again :joker: bye, Felicia.

[Cherry Christmas]

A kid with a mean streak :umm2:, maybe he is imitating behaviour from one or both of his parents or his minder :think:

[Marsh.]

*calls NSPCC*

[coffee]

A kid with a mean streak :umm2:, maybe he is imitating behaviour from one or both of his parents or his minder :think:

Not really his minder since I've been with him for only a few months :joker:

[Cherry Christmas]

Not really his minder since I've been with him for only a few months :joker:

Babysitter, childminder, nanny what do you call yourself?

[coffee]

Babysitter, childminder, nanny what do you call yourself?

I meant not a mean streak from me since I've barely been his nanny for long.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

:umm2:

[Ammi]

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?



..I don't believe in lying as such..with the Father Christmas/Santa thing and things like the tooth fairy etc...it's just a 'magic' that is a universal thing and I think to actually say from a very young age that there is no Father Christmas would be to deprive your child from something very positive to them..also from my experience, when a child does find out that it's actually parents who have been 'Santa', they do appreciate gifts more and the expense of them..?...and then their Christmas list starts to get a little more 'realistic'..?...I've never really done Bonfire Night much but with Halloween, it was always quite a big thing when the boys were younger, but just in terms of us all going Trick or Treating and we always had a big party with all of their and our friends with 'scary food' so it was something they loved because it was things we all did together and of course the dressing up bit..:laugh:...but we never really talked about 'witches' as such...as they got older, we enjoyed 'scary stories' but they never thought of them as anything more than stories/fiction ..and obviously the level of scary was dependant on their age as well....


...I think it's less about 'lying' and more about finding a way to explain some of the sadder stuff to your own child/an individual thing like so many things are because a parent knows their child better than anyone and knows their level of understanding, you know/and they're the best judgement on these things..?..because these it's not 'one size fits all'...just like adults, every child is different and their understanding and processes with information is all different..there are some details of awful stuff that I personally don't feel the need to know but others would be fine with it or even feel that they 'need to know'....but for me, I wouldn't be 'brutally honest' to the point of unnecessary details when the boys were younger but I would be truthful if that makes sense...explaining on levels they understood ..a bit off topic though, with children...?..one of my own personal 'pet hates' was 'baby talk' with children...a dog is a dog, it's not a 'doggy'...a cow is not a moo moo either..it's a cow..:laugh:...just using the correct words for things..:fist:...

[Candy Annie Cane]

..I don't believe in lying as such..with the Father Christmas/Santa thing and things like the tooth fairy etc...it's just a 'magic' that is a universal thing and I think to actually say from a very young age that there is no Father Christmas would be to deprive your child from something very positive to them..also from my experience, when a child does find out that it's actually parents who have been 'Santa', they do appreciate gifts more and the expense of them..?...and then their Christmas list starts to get a little more 'realistic'..?...I've never really done Bonfire Night much but with Halloween, it was always quite a big thing when the boys were younger, but just in terms of us all going Trick or Treating and we always had a big party with all of their and our friends with 'scary food' so it was something they loved because it was things we all did together and of course the dressing up bit..:laugh:...but we never really talked about 'witches' as such...as they got older, we enjoyed 'scary stories' but they never thought of them as anything more than stories/fiction ..and obviously the level of scary was dependant on their age as well....


...I think it's less about 'lying' and more about finding a way to explain some of the sadder stuff to your own child/an individual thing like so many things are because a parent knows their child better than anyone and knows their level of understanding, you know/and they're the best judgement on these things..?..because these it's not 'one size fits all'...just like adults, every child is different and their understanding and processes with information is all different..there are some details of awful stuff that I personally don't feel the need to know but others would be fine with it or even feel that they 'need to know'....but for me, I wouldn't be 'brutally honest' to the point of unnecessary details when the boys were younger but I would be truthful if that makes sense...explaining on levels they understood ..a bit off topic though, with children...?..one of my own personal 'pet hates' was 'baby talk' with children...a dog is a dog, it's not a 'doggy'...a cow is not a moo moo either..it's a cow..:laugh:...just using the correct words for things..:fist:...

I hate that too Ammi......:fist:

[Cherry Christmas]

I meant not a mean streak from me since I've barely been his nanny for long.

Can I ask Coffee are you a qualified Nanny? What you have said is really not sitting right with me at all

[joeysteele]

I think baby talk is okay, I aree largely with most of Ammi's post above but Doggy is okay and moo moo helps educate as to the sound a Cow makes too,just like baa baa for sheep too.
That is not lying to children just easing them into with some 'fun' expressions as to real identity of things.

Santa Claus is a different one for me as I outlined above, that is a blatant lie to children really, they are told this man can see and hear them all through the year, if he thinks they are bad, they will get nothing and other children will.
They have to,no matter what they may feel as to him, respect him for really nothing. They are shoved into Stores and often put on his knee while he spouts utter and total nonsense and lies to them.

I know I am a minority on that but it is heartening to find some other mates of mine who felt the same way in part as I did as to the idea of Santa Claus.
Tooth fairies and other things like that are less worrying, I think so anyway.

I feel Christmas is exciting enough with the decorations, lights and all the atmosphere that goes on without this lie that Santa Claus decides who gets presents and he then brings the presents, however only if you are good and he can see that you have as to all you do all the time.
Not only that he comes into your house with elves and lord knows what else.

If he cannot get in, elves come through the keyholes or letter boxes to let him in from the inside and then he gets to go all round your house and even into your own bedroom but you must never be seen to wake up then.
That to me is more like a horror story as to when I was 3 and 4.
As I said, I went to bed really stressed and scared on Christmas eve.

Once I knew at 5 years old there was no such person as Santa Claus, I loved Christmas after that and was so happy and relaxed on Christmas eve then,it was like waking up to something really good..

There is nothing wrong with some fantasy as to stories and events but I don't see fairy stories as lying.
They are I would doubt, rarely stated as being real, hence the word story.
However with this Santa Claus, he is presented as fact and as this all important figure that you must respect, do all he says and have the feeling he can see and hear everything you do all the time too.
That to me is possibly more in line with lying than fairy stories or childish descriptions of animal sounds to help identify them.

[coffee]

Can I ask Coffee are you a qualified Nanny? What you have said is really not sitting right with me at all

No, I'm just an au pair. Here to help the child with learning English and helping him with school. You're a bit too sensitive if you think I'm a child abuser just from telling him a spooky story and a 2 minute long clip from a horror film. At the end of the day the kid loves me and thinks of me like a big sister. He never wants to leave my side, just like I was with my older cousins who scared me all the time when I was young. His English and how he does at school has improved since I got here unlike with his past au pairs. So, I still don't see why this is an issue. I explained what movie clip I showed him, so you will know it wasn't anything to do with murder or violence. There was no blood or weapons involved. Unlike some video games a lot of people let kids play but you probably wouldn't call them child abusers.

[Cherry Christmas]

No, I'm just an au pair. Here to help the child with learning English and helping him with school. You're a bit too sensitive if you think I'm a child abuser just from telling him a spooky story and a 2 minute long clip from a horror film. At the end of the day the kid loves me and thinks of me like a big sister. He never wants to leave my side, just like I was with my older cousins who scared me all the time when I was young. His English and how he does at school has improved since I got here unlike with his past au pairs. So, I still don't see why this is an issue. I explained what movie clip I showed him, so you will know it wasn't anything to do with murder or violence. There was no blood or weapons involved. Unlike some video games a lot of people let kids play but you probably wouldn't call them child abusers.

You are scaring him to control his behaviour though, you are not doing it for his enjoyment or because he loves to hear scary stories, can't you understand how wrong that is :shrug: As for parents who let their 6 year old play games suitable for 18 year olds that is a whole different debate.

[Good King Glennceslas]

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?

That is fantastic :love:

[Kizzy]

I agree with cherie 100% what you're doing is psychological damage and not teaching the child by positive means right from wrong.

I have lied to my kids often to protect them from being upset, there's things they just don't need to know.
I do believe in keeping the magic of santa and the tooth fairy alive as long as possible, you're an adult for a long time so to maintain the wonder of childhood is important for me.