Death of Marilyn Monroe: What do you think?

[Cal.]

Just thought I'd start this up due to it being a heavily debated topic, and the subject being brought up in another thread. There's very compelling, telling, controversial and mysterious evidence surrounding the fateful night on which Marilyn Monroe died, but what do you think happened? Her death certificate states: 'probable suicide', despite the drug she had supposedly overdosed on not being found in her system - the coroner wrote this because she had a history of overdosing and being resuscitated.

(Please feel free to bring evidence you're basing your opinion on into the thread as well!)

There was a very telling documentary on Channel 5 last week actually, talking about the night of her death, but I don't know whether it was just a theory of the makers' or not, considering it seemed to place every single suspect of her death at her house on the night she died.

[Crimson Dynamo]

drugs overdose

no mystery

[kirklancaster]

drugs overdose

no mystery

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

[Cal.]

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

I agree. The drugs she'd supposedly overdosed on weren't found in her system either. The position she was lying in when found was faced down on the bed also, if she had an overdose she would have been in excruciating pain and would not have felt comfortable in the position she was in at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

So who came forward and testified to this?

[Marsh.]

So who came forward and testified to this?

How does one overdose on a drug without it entering their system? :think:

[Cal.]

LT is just trying to be controversial

[Shaun]

I hardly think saying a death was an overdose rather than some massive conspiracy is controversial :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Like all things like this the conspiracy relies on humans keeping stum for many years and the evidence shows that this is impossible, like 9/11

people cannot accept that someone famous dies a dull and boring death
she did, move on

[Cal.]

I hardly think saying a death was an overdose rather than some massive conspiracy is controversial :laugh:

LT is going against the majority of what people think because they know it'll get a reaction - when really they have no real belief in the thing they're pushing is true. It's the same with LT supporting Stevi Richie - they have no real belief Stevi is good or deserves to be in the competition, they just support him because they know it annoys other people on the forum and therefore they'll get a reaction from it.

[bots]

Well, as stated, it wasn't uncommon for her to need assistance in recovering from an attempted od, so on that basis, why would anyone need to murder her? Just make a selection of her favourite drugs available to her and wait. Have to agree that it would seem yet another conspiracy theory. People always want to see more in things than there actually ever is.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

The kennedys had her killed due to secrets she was about to release about them.


Source: my instincts

[kirklancaster]

LT is going against the majority of what people think because they know it'll get a reaction - when really they have no real belief in the thing they're pushing is true. It's the same with LT supporting Stevi Richie - they have no real belief Stevi is good or deserves to be in the competition, they just support him because they know it annoys other people on the forum and therefore they'll get a reaction from it.

Bang on Bullseye 1000% correct Who Is She - that's exactly what LT is up to. :wavey:

[Northern Monkey]

I am usually the last person to believe in conspiracy theories.
In this case though i don't think it's a mystery that it was murder and i don't think it's a mystery who atleast arranged it,I'd say it's fairly obvious,infact i would'nt even call it a conspiracy as an obvious cover up.
Now if you want a mystery look at Jimmy Hendrix's death.

[Cal.]

Some more facts which go against the overdose theory -

There was no glass in the room for Marilyn to have taken the pills, and she was known to gag on just one pill WITH water, so taking so many WITHOUT water would have been incredibly difficult for her.

She apparently overdosed at 9/10 pm, but had spoken with her ex Joe DiMaggio on the phone just an hour before, and was ecstatic that he had broken off his engagement with a women she hated, and Marilyn thought the pair stood a chance of getting back together. Why would a women overdose an hour or two after being ecstatic at the chance of reconciling with the man she loved?

Leading on from this point, her career was picking up as well as her personal life, and she had spent the afternoon after her meeting with Ralph Greenson planning for future film roles and events, why would she overdose when her life was looking up for the first time in months?

[Crimson Dynamo]

9/11


Źzzzźzźzzzz

[Cal.]

If you're not interested in debating about it, then don't bother posting in the thread. You seem to be on a mission to try and stop all discussion with your 'points'.

[Mazz01]

Hi, i'm mazz i have a friend currently writing a book on Marilyn's life, they have done lots of extensive research on these murder theories

First of all let's look at the facts. 25 Nembutal and at least 8
chloral hydrate in Marilyn's system the time of her death. How did it
get there? Well, there was no injection....and the enema theory is
about ridiculous and has next to no evidence....Marilyn took them
herself.
Accidentally? You don't take 33 pills accidentally. Maybe she
misjudged? Again, you don't take 33 pills and hope to live.

Let me clarify some thing:

"No “yellow trail” caused by the melting of the caps of Nembutal, which
usually leave a trail (though Noguchi claimed it was usual in ODs
experienced by drug abusers)"

Nembutal's do not leave a yellow 'trail' behind....the dye in the
capsules does not behave in this way.

No crystals were found in her stomach and duodenum (though Noguchi
claimed it was usual in ODs experiences by drug abusers, charts have
always proven the contrary)

I do not know what 'charts' these would be but it is absolutely
possible for drugs to pass through an empty stomach of a habitual user
without a trace....the strong stomach acid would dissolve a handful of
pills in UNDER 10 MINUTES....within 30-45 minutes there would be no
trace left, especially in a person highly used to receiving the
medication.

Because of the amount of drugs found in her blood, she should have
passed out before all the drugs had been processed by her organs :
there is NO way the stomach could be empty:

The stomach acid was more than capable to dissolve all the pills in
under 10 minutes, while Marilyn was still awake....even in a coma the
body would continue to move the drugs from the stomach into the
intestines.
It would not take a long time for the drugs to pass on....we are
talking less than an hour.

In ALL reported and studied cases of ODs similar to Marilyn’s case
(same blood and liver levels), there are ALWAYS contents in the
stomach. Why would things be different in Marilyn’s case?

It all depends on the severity of the drugproblem, weather the people
had eaten before or not....the fact that Marilyn's stomach was found
empty only points toward the sad fact that she had a huge drug problem
acquired over many years.

According to the pharmacist’s invoice from Monroe's estate, Marilyn
didn't have more than 25 Nembutal capsules at hand that last week so
the prescription was filled again on Aug. 3rd). Her last prescription
having been filled in June, it is hardly believable that as a drug
addict she would have kept some of the capsules from that June
prescription somewhere. She had used all of them by then.

According to the bloodcount there were about 25 Nembutal (and some
chloral hydrate) in her blood...the prescription filled from the day
before. The pills filled on aug. 3rd show up in her bloodstream the
next day, all of them!

Again let's look at the FACTS

Marilyn was in trouble and looking at her last months before her death
(and her actions), one can see that. Some say that she had everything
to live for, re-hired by the studio (for a movie that was god awful and
she knew it she had to repeat the same dumb blonde sex image all over
again)...and then what? She must have felt that her only security and
power, that as a sexy moviestar, was slipping away...the only thing
that gathered her attention and love was going to be over....with it
the adoration of the masses.....nothing but loneliness ahead.Maybe
somebody else like Kathreen Hepburn or Greta Garbo were stronger and
didn't care and went on about their Lives.....but Marilyn had no
family...no husband and children even......couldn't do anything else
besides being a sexy moviestar....she still wasn't receiving the
respect she wanted and now they were all talking about "poor
Marilyn"...her mental state of mind, her firing, her drugabuse, her
failed marriages.Maybe Marilyn just felt like a failure and didn't have
the mental strength to pull out of that....


Before people believe the murder theories ''lets take a look at
Marilyn's life in the last year and a half''

Early 1961: checked into a hospital for her drugabuse, depression and
possible suicidal behavior.Spring 1961: released to Joe DiMaggio but
Marilyn ditches him to hang with hard partying Sinatra crowd.

summer 1961: Gallbladder removal, blamed on her heavy barbiturate
consumption. Marilyn looks heavy and bloated.

Late summer 1961: Marilyn returns to her old stomping ground. Los
Angeles. Moves into her old apartment with minimal furnishings. (it
looked more like a bare hotel room than an apartment of a movie-star).

Late 1961: DETOX under 24-hour nursing supervision through Dr.
Greenson. Marilyn looses a lot of weight.

Early 1962: Marilyn moved into a small house in Brentwood by herself.
She appears intoxicated at a highly public event (GOLDEN GLOBES)

Spring 1962: Marilyn shows for work on her last movie over a week
late.....she misses more days than she works. She does a nude scene for
the film. (a sharp departure from wanting to be a 'serous actress'
during her New York years). She claims to be to sick to work yet takes
a strenuous trip to new York and back to L.A. in 2 days to appear drunk
one again at the Kennedy Gala, further exhausting her. (No doubt in
desperation to contact the Kennedy's.

Summer 1962: the day after Marilyn's 36th birthday. The Greenson
children speak of a depressed Marilyn, high on drugs, complaining about
her age and loneliness, all she does is stay in bed all day feeling
miserable.

Summer 1962 Marilyn is officially fired from "something's got to give"
and falls into an even deeper depression. Dr. Greenson has to cut short
a overseas trip to tend to a drugged out Monroe at her house. Marilyn
apparently had also suffered facial injuries, possibly due to a fall
while intoxicated.

Rumours that Dr Greenson beat Marilyn are unfounded and quite
ridiculous and would have gotten Greenson in a heap of trouble through
Newcomb or DiMaggio, still a presence in Monroe's Life). People are
afraid to leave her alone now Susan Strasberg says this and the fact
that Pat newcomb was over there 24-7 attests to this...also, the hiring
of Mrs. Murray and Greenson and Engelberg's frequent housecalls...

Mid summer 1962: Marilyn starts up a desperate campaign to keep her in
the public eye with semi-nude photo sessions where she appears a bit
haggard,intoxicated...though she still looks attractive you can still
see a glint of unhappiness in her eyes?

July 1962: Marilyn is rumored to have been highly intoxicated to the
point of embarrassment at the Cal neva with the Lawfords and Frank
Sinatra, again Marilyn is seen looking depressed as the day goes on and
there are a few photo's of that day confirming this?


And that was the sad reality of Marilyn's life... just before she had
died!!

These murder theories just don't hold up with any real evidence and the recent channel 5 documentary on Marilyn suggests the injection murder theory, but there was no fresh injection tracks seen on her body in the autopsy report, which you would had to be as blind as Bat if you had completely missed those marks???

[Mazz01]

Some more facts which go against the overdose theory -

There was no glass in the room for Marilyn to have taken the pills, and she was known to gag on just one pill WITH water, so taking so many WITHOUT water would have been incredibly difficult for her.

?

Hi, can i also clear up something here, there was actually a glass tumbler next to Marilyn's bed side on the floor, when she had went to Mexico in the early months of 62 she had went looking for new home accessories, these included water glass tumbler's that can be seen on a auction website of Marilyn's belongings, there you will also see the same dark glass tumbler on the floor it's there on the police photo of Marilyn's bedroom?

[kirklancaster]

People always want to see more in things than there actually ever is.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, where do we begin? Although the only logical conclusion that any rational, impartial person who researches Marilyn’s death can come to is murder, the enormity of such research in having to sift through all the sheer wealth of documentation concerning her last hours, in order to separate lie from fact, is not a task to be entered into lightly.

I am lucky, in that I have long been convinced that Marilyn was murdered and have therefore already read and researched a lot of the many books (own several) and articles concerning her death. Much of what I have learnt and suspected has been confirmed by the excellent recent Channel 5 documentary ‘Conspiracy; The Missing Evidence’ referred to by Who Is She – but more than just confirming, this documentary does, indeed, fill in the missing pieces with new evidence.

I think it’s important for anyone who has been seduced by the official propaganda and is therefore of the mindset that the Kennedy’s were honourable politicians and men who were above such ‘preposterous’ allegations, to research this clan – starting with the Patriarch Joe Kennedy.

If you do, you will learn not only discover that all the Kennedy's were sexual predators who make Bill Clinton look like a Trappist Monk by comparison, but you will also learn how Joe Kennedy acquired his millions through bootlegging, how he covertly used his money and connections with mobsters, celebrities, and the CIA and FBI, to get his sons elected to power - making many promises to them in return, only for him to ‘betray’ these people once his sons were duly elected. This trait of using people and then ditching them was continued by John, Bobby and Edward Kennedy, and was at the root of JFK and Bobby’s assassination.

During such research, you will discover the many ‘victims’ of the Kennedy’s duplicity, including, Cuban exiles who were promised that if they would invade Cuba and re-take it from Fidel Castro, the USA would give them ‘air support’ in the first instance and other support from there. This led to the ‘Bay of Pigs’ fiasco where the gullible exiles were betrayed with no such support.

The ousting of Castro was also one of the many clandestine promises made by the Kennedy’s to Joe Kennedy’s mobster pals because when Castro came to power, he booted the mafia off the island, seized their assets and closed all the casinos – the source of billions in mob revenue, and the mob were keen to reestablish themselves in a newly 'liberated' and 'liberal' Cuba .

Various covert inducements were also made to the mob in return for their ‘teamster votes’ to get his sons elected – one of which was that if Bobby was elected to Attorney General he would – naturally – implement ’soft policies’ on mob criminal activities. Once elected however, Bobby went after the mob with a vengeance. It may make you question why Jimmy Hoffa boss of the teamsters union subsequently suddenly 'disappeared'.

Among the many ‘powerful’ and 'persuasive' celebrities who were ‘courted’ by the Kennedy’s and used by them to get elected and re-elected, only to be ditched, were Peter Lawford and Frank Sinatra. Frank was utterly inconsolable when his ‘close friend’ JFK distanced himself from him once Frank’s usefulness to JFK was overshadowed by his growing infamy because of his association with mobster boss Sam Giancana (Frank co-owned the Cal Neva Lodge with Giancana) but – unlike Lawford, who was Kennedy’s brother-in-law – Frank never publicly ‘turned’ on the Kennedy’s or publicly revealed what he knew about their shady practices (though he revealed plenty 'off the record'). Does this 'using and subsequent 'betrayal by ditching' pattern remind you of JFK and Bobby's callous treatment of Marilyn? All will be made clear later.

Add to all this Senator Edward Kennedy - another corrupt, womanising, drunkard hypocrite Kennedy, one, who (like brother Bobby) used his power and connections to, quite literally, ‘get away with murder.

On July 18, 1969, Edward Kennedy was driving back from a party with pretty, 28 year old Campaign Worker Mary Jo Kapechne in his car, when his car plunged off the Chappaquidick bridge into a body of deep water. Coward Kennedy saved himself and swam ashore leaving Kapechne trapped in the back seats. He didn’t report the incident for a full nine hours by which time Mary Jo was found dead by rescuers. What’s utterly shocking is that Mary Jo had survived for several hours after the plunge – having been kept alive by an air pocket within the car. Divers maintained that had Kennedy reported the incident straight away, they would have definitely found Mary Jo alive. Subsequent Medical evidence substantiated this. It was alleged that Mary Jo was being 'used' by Kennedy for sex a la JFK and Bobby with Marilyn, but he not surprisingly denied this. He also denied being drunk, but nine hours gave him plenty of time to sober up, clean his dick, and make sufficient telephone calls to all the right people in order to best extricate himself from this 'career' and liberty threatening situation. (Remind you of Bobby Kennedy and Greenson's 5 hour delay reporting Marilyn's death to the police? It will become clear later.)

Instead of being charged with homicide, Kennedy used his power and connections to have the charge kept to 'Leaving the scene of an accident’ and was given a mere two-year suspended sentence and had his driving licence suspended for a year, although - thankfully - this did all but end his aspirations to follow his brother into the Oval Office.

Read up on this hateful clan of hypocrites, then decide for yourselves if this ‘stock’ was more than capable of having murder committed in order to preserve their status.

I am posting a detailed summary of the case for Marilyn's murder shortly.

[Smithy]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/3204840swsw.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://media.tumblr.com/9ee7d6fbf57299b28caaf7c9013c05ef/tumblr_inline_mf9gwcD21H1qj5nwn.gif

[kirklancaster]

Hi, i'm mazz i have a friend currently writing a book on Marilyn's life, they have done lots of extensive research on these murder theories

These murder theories just don't hold up with any real evidence and the recent channel 5 documentary on Marilyn suggests the injection murder theory, but there was no fresh injection tracks seen on her body in the autopsy report, which you would had to be as blind as Bat if you had completely missed those marks???

Hi Mazz and welcome to TIBB. You have posted a very eloquent and detailed case against Marilyn being murdered, and I look forward to an interesting exchange of views with you because I strongly believe that Marilyn was not only murdered, but also that Robert Kennedy was implicated up to his neck.

I have not time yet to answer you in depth (and depth is surely mandatory given the complexity of subject) but I will say that with all due respect your post is neither factual nor convincing.

You begin by stating; "Let's look at the facts" but then go on to relate unsubstantiated opinion and hypothesis.

Anyway, welcome, and as I say, I much look forward to a healthy, civilised debate on this subject. :wavey:

[Kyle]

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one. :grin2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one. :grin2:

Woman has a friend who is writing a book on subject.

Woman says all the conspiracy theories are bogus


Not looking good for thread

:joker:

[Novo]

She is still alive hiding out in Costa Rica

[Mazz01]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, where do we begin? Although the only logical conclusion that any rational, impartial person who researches Marilyn’s death can come to is murder, the enormity of such research in having to sift through all the sheer wealth of documentation concerning her last hours, in order to separate lie from fact, is not a task to be entered into lightly.

I am lucky, in that I have long been convinced that Marilyn was murdered and have therefore already read and researched a lot of the many books (own several) and articles concerning her death. Much of what I have learnt and suspected has been confirmed by the excellent recent Channel 5 documentary ‘Conspiracy; The Missing Evidence’ referred to by Who Is She – but more than just confirming, this documentary does, indeed, fill in the missing pieces with new evidence.

Haha that rumour has actually been debunked by James Hall the ambulance driver who's work colleague had since said that Mr Hall had lied about the whole incident, there was no injection by Dr Greenson and they were certainly Not at Marilyn's that evening?

I think it's maybe you that's being seduced by these scandalous murder theory books done by Slatzer and Donald Wolfe... you really need to put those books down.


I think it’s important for anyone who has been seduced by the official propaganda and is therefore of the mindset that the Kennedy’s were honourable politicians and men who were above such ‘preposterous’ allegations, to research this clan – starting with the Patriarch Joe Kennedy.

If you do, you will learn not only discover that all the Kennedy's were sexual predators who make Bill Clinton look like a Trappist Monk by comparison, but you will also learn how Joe Kennedy acquired his millions through bootlegging, how he covertly used his money and connections with mobsters, celebrities, and the CIA and FBI, to get his sons elected to power - making many promises to them in return, only for him to ‘betray’ these people once his sons were duly elected. This trait of using people and then ditching them was continued by John, Bobby and Edward Kennedy, and was at the root of JFK and Bobby’s assassination.

During such research, you will discover the many ‘victims’ of the Kennedy’s duplicity, including, Cuban exiles who were promised that if they would invade Cuba and re-take it from Fidel Castro, the USA would give them ‘air support’ in the first instance and other support from there. This led to the ‘Bay of Pigs’ fiasco where the gullible exiles were betrayed with no such support.

The ousting of Castro was also one of the many clandestine promises made by the Kennedy’s to Joe Kennedy’s mobster pals because when Castro came to power, he booted the mafia off the island, seized their assets and closed all the casinos – the source of billions in mob revenue, and the mob were keen to reestablish themselves in a newly 'liberated' and 'liberal' Cuba .

Various covert inducements were also made to the mob in return for their ‘teamster votes’ to get his sons elected – one of which was that if Bobby was elected to Attorney General he would – naturally – implement ’soft policies’ on mob criminal activities. Once elected however, Bobby went after the mob with a vengeance. It may make you question why Jimmy Hoffa boss of the teamsters union subsequently suddenly 'disappeared'.

Among the many ‘powerful’ and 'persuasive' celebrities who were ‘courted’ by the Kennedy’s and used by them to get elected and re-elected, only to be ditched, were Peter Lawford and Frank Sinatra. Frank was utterly inconsolable when his ‘close friend’ JFK distanced himself from him once Frank’s usefulness to JFK was overshadowed by his growing infamy because of his association with mobster boss Sam Giancana (Frank co-owned the Cal Neva Lodge with Giancana) but – unlike Lawford, who was Kennedy’s brother-in-law – Frank never publicly ‘turned’ on the Kennedy’s or publicly revealed what he knew about their shady practices (though he revealed plenty 'off the record'). Does this 'using and subsequent 'betrayal by ditching' pattern remind you of JFK and Bobby's callous treatment of Marilyn? All will be made clear later.

Add to all this Senator Edward Kennedy - another corrupt, womanising, drunkard hypocrite Kennedy, one, who (like brother Bobby) used his power and connections to, quite literally, ‘get away with murder.

On July 18, 1969, Edward Kennedy was driving back from a party with pretty, 28 year old Campaign Worker Mary Jo Kapechne in his car, when his car plunged off the Chappaquidick bridge into a body of deep water. Coward Kennedy saved himself and swam ashore leaving Kapechne trapped in the back seats. He didn’t report the incident for a full nine hours by which time Mary Jo was found dead by rescuers. What’s utterly shocking is that Mary Jo had survived for several hours after the plunge – having been kept alive by an air pocket within the car. Divers maintained that had Kennedy reported the incident straight away, they would have definitely found Mary Jo alive. Subsequent Medical evidence substantiated this. It was alleged that Mary Jo was being 'used' by Kennedy for sex a la JFK and Bobby with Marilyn, but he not surprisingly denied this. He also denied being drunk, but nine hours gave him plenty of time to sober up, clean his dick, and make sufficient telephone calls to all the right people in order to best extricate himself from this 'career' and liberty threatening situation. (Remind you of Bobby Kennedy and Greenson's 5 hour delay reporting Marilyn's death to the police? It will become clear later.)

Instead of being charged with homicide, Kennedy used his power and connections to have the charge kept to 'Leaving the scene of an accident’ and was given a mere two-year suspended sentence and had his driving licence suspended for a year, although - thankfully - this did all but end his aspirations to follow his brother into the Oval Office.

Read up on this hateful clan of hypocrites, then decide for yourselves if this ‘stock’ was more than capable of having murder committed in order to preserve their status.

I am posting a detailed summary of the case for Marilyn's murder shortly.

As i have noted from your post you go with the Kennedy's murder theory but please explain how exactly did they kill her? yes the police records were confiscated for the simple reason that Marilyn was having an affair with JFK...yes that part is true and lets Not forget all the other woman who had been secretly involved with him, and some even go on record stating they had actually got pregnant by the President - Judith Exner for one, and he also had an affair with his private secretary Mimi Alford and probably many many more...had these woman also been murdered by the Kennedy's i think Not...so what was so special about Marilyn's relationship?

It only makes sense that the CIA wanted to keep that under control....why does this point toward murder?
Anyhow, how do you think the Kennedy's physically killed her? With Nembutal? Doubtful. The conspiracy theories have GOT TO GO.


For all of you that believe Marilyn was somehow 'murdered'...what about Marilyn's history of overdoses and drug abuse, hospitalization and depression? is that being pushed aside and denied in favor of some slanderous theory? Marilyn overdosed several times and was saved each time by either Arthur Miller or Paula Strasberg....The last two years of Marilyn's life showed major depression, serious drug issues and detoxes, in and out of hospitals....She nearly overdosed TWICE in the last few weeks before her actual death! Magazines of that time predicted her actual suicide!! Yes, that is true!!! (I have many vintage magazines). Now, those are the facts....conspiracy theories have no proof at all. Where is the actual proof?
.

The one thing that nobody from the conspiracy camp can seem to tell me is HOW did the Kennedy's actually kill Marilyn?
She died from a drug over dose...is this the normal way to kill somebody? I have heard stuff like "she was forced to take the pills"...how by being hypnotized by a swinging pendulum....i mean, come on!!!


There is NO evidence Marilyn was murdered. Absolutely none. Zippo. It is very misleading to claim that there is actual proof. There are 'mystery sources', like secret bugs in Marilyn's house - again where are these secret tapes...hear-say, rumours and speculation....none of it amounts to PROOF. If there was they would have proven it a long time ago.

[Marsh.]

I have a friend who was there the night she died and is making a film based around the events that lead to her murder.

True dat.

[Cal.]

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

[Mazz01]

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

Ok then explain why Judith Exner or Mimi Alford was able to do the same thing while they had both been having affairs at the same time as Marilyn, they had also knew about secret information about the Cuban missile crisis amongst other private things, the Kennedy's were simply reckless men and really didn't care about these woman who might of known those things, they were certainly Not worried about any of these woman going public or exposing the Kennedy family... could you imagine how that would of wrecked Marilyn public image? Judith was actually pregnant by JFK late 1962 so why wasn't she disposed by him or Bobby...? it just seems odd that everyone assume's that Marilyn's relationship was more special...it really wasn't as i have said these woman that JKF or bobby were involved with knew exactly what Marilyn had known so what?

[Mazz01]

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

The one thing that nobody from the conspiracy camp can seem to tell me is HOW did the Kennedy's actually kill Marilyn?
how did they make Marilyn take those pills without being forced to do it.

She died from a drugover dose...is this the normal way to kill somebody? if i was one of the Kennedy brother's
i would of come up with a better murder plan then a bottle of pills...not the usual way to have someone killed is it?

[Cal.]

She was sedated and then smothered. In the Channel 5 documentary, a man who had heard the tapes from Marilyn's house (the FBI had the whole place rigged up with audio recording devices) heard Robert Kennedy and two other men arrive at Marilyn's home. This is backed up from neighbours who were having a gathering at home, who had seen Robert Kennedy and Entourage arrive at the house. Robert came to confront Marilyn a final time over her repeated threats that she was going to expose the Kennedys. The documentary also said JFK was at the home, and was heard saying 'Give her something to calm her down' when Marilyn was screaming '**** you! I'm Marilyn Monroe!'. This implies Marilyn was sedated by the men, and then according to the man in the documentary who heard the tapes, it was implied that Robert Kennedy proceeded to smother her to death. Then followed the cover up: Marilyn's body being placed in the unusual position it was found in, the bottle of empty pills conveniently nearby, and the whole room looking very tidy: fresh linen was even on the bed.

[Mazz01]

She was sedated and then smothered. In the Channel 5 documentary, a man who had heard the tapes from Marilyn's house (the FBI had the whole place rigged up with audio recording devices) heard Robert Kennedy and two other men arrive at Marilyn's home. This is backed up from neighbours who were having a gathering at home, who had seen Robert Kennedy and Entourage arrive at the house. Robert came to confront Marilyn a final time over her repeated threats that she was going to expose the Kennedys. The documentary also said JFK was at the home, and was heard saying 'Give her something to calm her down' when Marilyn was screaming '**** you! I'm Marilyn Monroe!'. This implies Marilyn was sedated by the men, and then according to the man in the documentary who heard the tapes, it was implied that Robert Kennedy proceeded to smother her to death. Then followed the cover up: Marilyn's body being placed in the unusual position it was found in, the bottle of empty pills conveniently nearby, and the whole room looking very tidy: fresh linen was even on the bed.

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, you are better off putting those books in the trash IMO

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

[Livia]

Marilyn Monroe was a big fan of enemas. She spoke quite candidly about them and the fact she was a fan. A lot of famous people were back then, it was kind of fashionable.

People can write volumes about what they think happened but the weight of your evidence doesn’t increase with your word count. The fact is that if there was as much real evidence as people claim the case would have been solved years ago. I think many people would be happier to think there was a great conspiracy involving the premature death of one of the world’s most famous and beautiful women, admired by men from the president down. However, the unglamorous truth in my opinion is that she was famously an insecure, sad, depressive woman who died of an overdose administered via an enema by her housekeeper - a service she'd performed for Marilyn many times before.

Eunice Murray, Marilyn’s housekeeper, was the women who alerted the police that she’d found Marilyn dead. When the police arrived, the washing machine was running. Seems strange to me that at a time like that, doing a load of washing was of paramount importance. Unless… it was to destroy evidence.


So, I’m going with… the Housekeeper… in the bedroom… with an enema.

[Cal.]

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, your are better off putting those books in the trash IMH.

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

I said many times I was getting my information from the documentary - the man said she was smothered on the tape, I can't remember how he knew this - how would a gentle smothering (considering she had been sedated so wouldn't have struggled) show up on an autopsy anyway? And I don't read murder theory books, I never mentioned murder theory books - where are you getting this information from?:conf:

[Mazz01]

Marilyn Monroe was a big fan of enemas. She spoke quite candidly about them and the fact she was a fan. A lot of famous people were back then, it was kind of fashionable.



So, I’m going with… the Housekeeper… in the bedroom… with an enema.

Again there was no actual signs of any struggle in the autopsy report and there was nothing suspicious with anything entering that part of Marilyn's body? i'm not sure how Mrs Murray who was also quite a smallish framed lady would of been able to sedate Marilyn unconscious then lift her body weight so she could self -administrate an enema...? in fact enema's were not fashionable and was never something ever reported in that era of the 1960's?

Can i ask have you read the entire official autopsy report obviously Not because you would of read the following FACTS - if an enema had been used then how was a stool found in her system at the autopsy, don't you think the enema would expel any contents from the colon opening of the rectum, who ever you think was administrating this to Marilyn would of had great difficulty even applying this type of procedure if the other person was unconscious? What is the actual purpose of an enema, it is for clearing out contents from the colon by expelling and Not by absorbing, so do you see the dilemma there?

Here are some of the facts found in the official autopsy report :


A, The discoloration found in her colon was on the OUTSIDE of the colon wall. It was also further up than the colon entrance where an enema would have taken place. There was no inflammation at the colon entrance.

B, There was a stool present in the colon. Something that would have been gone had an enema taken place don't you think?

C, Marilyn's bloodstream contained the very drugs she had bought herself the day before in a quantity matching the prescription. She also had a lethal amount of chloral hydrate in her blood. Was THAT in the enema too???

D, The inflamed stomach lining is a clear give away that the drugs were taken orally. Enema conspiracy people ignore this entirely.

This proves that no enema had been used as a means to administer drugs to Marilyn, it was her daily habit to take them orally (as the pill bottles on her nightstand attest to this?.

WHO in their right mind would want to have an enema anyways? it isn't pleasant....especially when pills were handy...let's get realistic here!

[Mazz01]

I said many times I was getting my information from the documentary - the man said she was smothered on the tape, I can't remember how he knew this - how would a gentle smothering (considering she had been sedated so wouldn't have struggled) show up on an autopsy anyway? And I don't read murder theory books, I never mentioned murder theory books - where are you getting this information from?:conf:

And like i have said why would you believe hear say and speculation without hearing the actual real tapes? all of those theories mentioned on that program have all since been debunked, i was very disappointed that it went over the same old murder theories without having any actual evidence to back it up?

[Livia]

Again there was no actual sign's of any struggle in the autopsy report and there was nothing suspicious with anything entering that part of Marilyn's body? i'm not sure how Mrs Murray who was also quite a smallish framed lady would of been able to sedate Marilyn unconscious then lift her body weight so she could self -administrate an enema...? in fact enema's were not fashionable and was never something ever reported in that era of the 1960's?

There weren't any signs of a struggle because Marilyn was a regular enema recipient and I suggest that it was given at Marilyn's request. And in fact they were very fashionable about that time and used for weight loss, mainly. She wouldn't have to lift the body, just roll it.

Like jack the Ripper, like the Kennedy assassination, there is never going to be a right answer after all this time.

[Mazz01]

There weren't any signs of a struggle because Marilyn was a regular enema recipient and I suggest that it was given at Marilyn's request. And in fact they were very fashionable about that time and used for weight loss, mainly. She wouldn't have to lift the body, just roll it.

Like jack the Ripper, like the Kennedy assassination, there is never going to be a right answer after all this time.

Okay maybe you can find me some old vintage news reports of enema's in that era, i would like to see this has my friend had never found any information or reports of enema's ever being used in the 60's?

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Mazz01;7356845]Haha that rumour has actually been debunked by James Hall the ambulance driver who's work colleague had since said that Mr Hall had lied about the whole incident, there was no injection by Dr Greenson and they were certainly Not at Marilyn's that evening?

I am supposed to be 're-modelling' our bathroom (to use American parlance) so I haven't really got a lot of time, but I will delight in answering you later in full.

For now, can you tell me just what source you are relying on to make the above emboldened statement? Because, as I know from years of my own research, it depends who you read on whether James Hall took 14 polygraph tests and passed all, or if he took just one and failed, whether James Hall accepted $400,000 for his story by the Globe newspaper or if he never tried to capitalise on his story, whether Hall's driver Murray Leibowitz supported Hall's story with similar testimony or if he said he had no recollection of being at Marilyn's during that fateful morning etc etc.

I think therefore, that; as you were not principally involved in Marilyn's final hours and have no personal, direct eyewitness knowledge of what actually transpired during her last hours but are as reliant on the existing documentation as I am to inform you, then you should refrain from arrogantly handing out advice regarding my "being seduced by these scandalous murder theory books done by Slatzer and Donald Wolfe" and especially that I need to "really need to put those books down."

As to; "As i have noted from your post you go with the Kennedy's murder theroy but please explain how exactly did they kill her? yes the police records were confiscated for the simple reason that Marilyn was having an affair with the president...yes that part is true and lets Not forget all the other woman in his life who had been secrely involved with him and some even go on record saying they had actually got pregnant by JKF - Judith Exner for one, and he also had an affair with his private secretary Mimi Alford and probably many many more...did these woman also get murdered i think Not, so what was so special about Marilyn;s relationship, i feel many of these woman knew the same has what Marilyn knew?"

Very briefly, Marilyn's situation with JFK and Bobby was unique because all the other women mentioned were not 'Marilyn Monroe' but 'fishwives and housewives' by comparison, and that being so, they did not share with JFK mutual 'friends' like mobster 'boss of all bosses' Sam Giancana.

As Joe Kennedy was a mobster himself, this covert close personal relationship of JFK's with Giancana is hardly surprising, but it nonetheless beggars the question of just what dealings and conversations Kennedy had with Giancana which Marilyn was directly privy to. In addition, we know Kennedy discussed matters of State Security with Marilyn, and as Marilyn was sleeping with both these powerful men, then who knows what information was passed to and fro by way of 'pillow talk'. Extra marital affairs might embarrass the Kennedy's in respect of the other woman they 'conquered' and used, but they had reason to really fear Marilyn exposing to the world what she knew about them, and only a fool would think otherwise given the unique circumstances of this matter .


"Anyhow, how do you think the Kennedy's physically killed her? With
Nembutal? Doubtful."

Is it beyond the realms of high logical probability that the best way to murder Marilyn Monroe and avoid detection, is via an administration of a lethal overdose of drugs and making it look suicide, given her use of the same, and her history of depression?

Bear in mind also that Bobby Kennedy himself visited Marilyn to try to appeal to her not to execute her threats to 'go public' with what she knew, and also to convince her to accept why he could not see her again, and why she should no longer attempt to contact him. Kennedy knew that Marilyn would not listen to anyone else and he arrogantly believed (probably because of her gullibility before with both JFK and him) that only he himself was capable of dissuading her. The evidence that he was in L.A and at Marilyn's that day and night, and also, therefore that the Kennedy 'alibi' that he was in Frisco was lies, is overwhelming. However, despite Kennedy's confidence, Marilyn erupted in anger at his attempts to end the relationship and her furious reaction and reinforced threats to reveal all to the world, determined his reaction and forced his hand. There was no time to plan an auto accident, a 'disturbed' burglary or any other manner of murdering her. It had to be now and Kennedy knew just how to achieve it - Marilyn's psychiatrist Ralph Greenson.

"There WAS a police report. I don't kn what you're referring to.
The conspiracy theories have GOT TO GO."


And what a 'police report' - Jack Clemmons a 15 year LA Police Veteran, who is the first officer on the scene, sees through the B.S staged death scene, notes rigor mortis in the corpse, detects Housekeeper Eunice Murray's 'vagueness and evasiveness, and perceives how overly desperate Marilyn's psychiatrist Ralph Greenson was to convince him that Marilyn committed suicide by swallowing the contents of all the empty pill bottles so conveniently arranged on her bedside table - complete with their caps all neatly screwed back on. Clemmons does not buy into this 'suicide' and declares that Marilyn was murdered. Within one hour Clemmons is replaced by Det Sgt Sergeant Marvin Iannone Bobby Kennedy's own personal 'dirty Tricks' cop and the very cop who'd been at the house earlier.

Clemmons views were 'dismissed' as was the evidence of Marilyn's neighbour along with other witness evidence not favourable to the 'official' sanitised Kennedy-friendly version of events.

As to the glass on the floor which 'turned up' on later photographs, the original officers on the scene swear it was not there when they inspected Marilyn's bedroom upon their arrival. That's a big a mystery as the blood smears on the bedroom wall seen in early police photographs but which magically have disappeared in later versions, and Eunice Murrays changing testimony - among other 'mysteries'.

"For all of you that believe Marilyn was somehow 'murdered'...what about
Marilyn's history of overdoses and drugabuse, hospitalization and
depression? is that beeing pushed aside and denied in favor of some
slanderous theory?

Marilyn overdosed several times and was saved each time by either
Arthur Miller or Paula Strasberg.... The last two years of Marilyn's life showed mayor depression, serious drug issues and detoxes, in and out of hospitals....
She nearly overdosed TWICE in the last few weeks before her actual
death! Magazines of that time predicted her actual suicide!! Yes, that
is true!!! (I have many vintage magazines). Now, those are the
facts....conspiracy theories have no proof at all. Where is the actual
proof?"

All the historical data above is not evidence of Marilyn's suicide, merely an indicator of just why if someone with a vested interest in having her murdered, would choose a 'suicide by drug overdose' as the best way to achieve it.

As I said, I have not time here to reproduce all the compelling evidence that Marilyn did not commit suicide but will do so later.

"The one thing that nobody from the conspiracy camp can seem to tell me
is HOW did the Kennedy's actually kill Marilyn?
She died from a drugover dose...is this the normal way to kill somebody?
I have heard stuff like "she was forced to take the pills"...how by
being hypnotized by a swinging pendulum....i mean, come on!!!"

That last nonsense is not worthy of you, and the Kennedy's did not murder Marilyn - Ralph Greenson did at Bobby Kennedy's behest.

"There is NO evidence Marilyn was murdered. Absolutely none. Zippo. It
is very misleading to claim that there is actual proof. There are
'mystery sources', like secret bugs in Marilyn's house - again where
are these secret tapes...hear-say, rumours and speculation....none of
it amounts to PROOF. If there was they would have proven it a long time
ago"

The tapes did exist - numerous credible witnesses heard them, and if they never existed, then why were they seized by the Secret service and why did Otash lodge a law suite in 1966 to have them returned?

No - Strip away all the inevitable false testimony by cranks, money grubbing 'opportunists', and Kennedy haters with their own axe to grind, and sift through the fake 'facts' introduced by those with a vested interest in 'debunking' the murder theorists, and there remains a hard core of evidence which compels that Marilyn was murdered. Such evidence ranges from the testimony of unimpeachable witnesses (most of it inexplicably suppressed, dismissed or ignored) as well as all the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, the many cases of vital evidence going 'missing', and vital body organs being mysteriously destroyed before they can be forensically examined.

As with all cases of any criminal activity by powerful politicians or state, witnesses who do step forward have their evidence suppressed or have their credibility undermined by being depicted as cranks or worse, by the all
powerful propaganda machines and state organisations which the guilty parties definitely control; Media, FBI, CIA, Police, District Attorney's Office etc etc. This is exactly what has transpired in this case with Clemmons and other genuine witnesses being rubbished or 'dismissed'. Then there are the other witnesses are too intimidated to say anything publicly until the men in power have died, or the state control changes hands and the threat of retribution has diminished or safely disappeared altogether.

[kirklancaster]

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, you are better off putting those books in the trash IMH.

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

Listen to yourself! You are guilty of the same practices which you are critising others on here for.

Why do you believe that there were no tapes? The tapes did exist - numerous credible witnesses heard them, and if they never existed, then why were they seized by the Secret service and why did Otash lodge a law suite in 1966 to have them returned?

What are your sources for stating your theories with such conviction? Or should I be asking where do you keep your Time machine?

I personally welcome any debate on here but please don't attempt to belittle other people because they don't agree with you, and please don't respond to a post by merely ridiculing that post and reiterating your own viewpoints without also answering the original points with valid counterpoints supported by rational reasons for those counterpoints.

[Livia]

Okay maybe you can find me some old vintage news reports of enema's in that era, i would like to see this has my friend had never found any information or reports of enema's ever being used in the 60's?

I'm not doing your friend's research for her. Tell her to Google Nembutal.

[kirklancaster]

Okay maybe you can find me some old vintage news reports of enema's in that era, i would like to see this has my friend had never found any information or reports of enema's ever being used in the 60's?

Again - why do you find it necessary to insist on proof from any Forum member who make statements which you take exception to, whilst simultaneously, you make statements which you present as gospel without yourself proffering any evidence to substantiate such statements?

What are your sources which justify your stance that you are 'right' and everyone else is wrong?

I believe Marilyn was murdered by Greenson at the behest of Robert Kennedy. I believe as much because of the years of research I myself have carried out, but I am not a bigot or an inflexible idiot, and I am here to be persuaded that my belief is wrong, but it is with logical argument supported by evidence that I will be convinced - not sweeping statements passed off as 'fact' without such evidence or substantive grounds. I also do not need to be patronised, and neither do my very intelligent and knowledgeable friends on here.

[kirklancaster]

I have a friend who was there the night she died and is making a film based around the events that lead to her murder.

True dat.

:joker::joker:

Oh Lord Marsh.

[Marsh.]

:joker::joker:

Oh Lord Marsh.

Don't diss my friend. :fist:

[Mazz01]

Listen to yourself! You are guilty of the same practices which you are critising other on here for.

Why do you believe that there were no tapes? The tapes did exist - numerous credible witnesses heard them, and if they never existed, then why were they seized by the Secret service and why did Otash lodge a law suite in 1966 to have them returned?

What are your sources for stating your theories with such conviction? Or should I be asking where do you keep your Time machine?

I personally welcome any debate on here but please don't attempt to belittle other people because they don't agree with you, and please don't respond to a post by merely ridiculing that post and reiterating your own viewpoints without also answering the original points with valid counterpoints supported by rational reasons for those counterpoints.

Hmm i wasn't trying to belittle anyone it's how i come across when i write on these type of forums, i have not said anything to insult anyone i'm not sure why you are getting so defensive? i made my points but you seem to have taken it out of context has me trying to say that i'm right and everyone is wrong, No that is not what i was doing...i just wanted to know why people are so easily swayed with believing these FACTS that do not show any real evidence to the contrary? you say that there were actual tapes of Marilyn's house being bugged so where are these tapes now... and who are these people saying that they had actually heard them, it seems odd that anyone can make these claims without showing any real evidence to back up their claims, and why would you believe those people if you had not heard the evidence for yourself?



And what a 'police report' - Jack Clemmons a 15 year LA Police Veteran, who is the first officer on the scene, sees through the B.S staged death scene, notes rigor mortis in the corpse, detects Housekeeper Eunice Murray's 'vagueness and evasiveness, and perceives how overly desperate Marilyn's psychiatrist Ralph Greenson was to convince him that Marilyn committed suicide by swallowing the contents of all the empty pill bottles so conveniently arranged on her bedside table - complete with their caps all neatly screwed back on. Clemmons does not buy into this 'suicide' and declares that Marilyn was murdered. Within one hour Clemmons is replaced by Det Sgt Sergeant Marvin Iannone Bobby Kennedy's own personal 'dirty Tricks' cop and the very cop who'd been at the house earlier.

Clemmons views were 'dismissed' as was the evidence of Marilyn's neighbour along with other witness evidence not favourable to the 'official' sanitised Kennedy-friendly version of events.

As to the glass on the floor which 'turned up' on later photographs, the original officers on the scene swear it was not there when they inspected Marilyn's bedroom upon their arrival. That's a big a mystery as the blood smears on the bedroom wall seen in early police photographs but which magically have disappeared in later versions, and Eunice Murrays changing testimony - among other 'mysteries'.

Lets see, you must of read several murder theories provided by Clemmons who had actually changed his official eye witness statement on that death report? see i think it's very important to not get wrapped up in all these conspiracy books and read from the official police report stated in 1962, where do you see any of Clemmons evidence suggesting Marilyn's body had been moved and a missing glass or Mrs Murray washing bed sheets in that 1962 report? all these details had suddenly changed in a book written by murder theorist Robert Slatzer in the 1970's when he had contacted Clemmons, Slatzer who is a notorious liar a man who confessed that he was once married to Marilyn in 1952, this was certainly Not true which had been debunked by many of Marilyn's close friends?

I really think you have been HAD on why Clemmons had changed his official police testimony, this officer had actually been fired from the Police department on grounds of ill practices that went against all police rules, he then decides to give a tell all story to Robert Slatzer about missing evidence of Marilyn's body being moved and the mysterious bed sheets being washed? and all this right in front of other police officers at the scene who had Not even witness any of this going on?...i mean come on!!! it's all lies i'm afraid.

[kirklancaster]

And like i have said why would you believe hear say and speculation without hearing the actual real tapes? all of those theories mentioned on that program have all since been debunked, i was very disappointed that it went over the same old murder theories without having any actual evidence to back it up?

Source please.

[Mazz01]

[/B]

Source please.

I think you need to show your source's that those tapes at Marilyn's house did actual exist...and no need for you to be so defensive as you can not prove what you say is right?

[Mazz01]

I'm not doing your friend's research for her. Tell her to Google Nembutal.

Oh that's okay, because you wont be able to find anything relating to enema's being fashionable in the 1960's, so there goes your theory?

[kirklancaster]

Hmm i wasn't trying to belittle anyone it's how i come across when i write on these type of forums, i have not said anything to insult anyone i'm not sure why you are getting so defensive? i made my points but you seem to have taken it out of context has me trying to say that i'm right and everyone is wrong, No that is not what i was doing...i just wanted to know why people are so easily swayed with believing these FACTS that do not show any real evidence to the contrary? you say that there were actual tapes of Marilyn's house being bugged so where are these tapes now... and who are these people saying that they had actually heard them, it seems odd that anyone can make these claims without showing any real evidence to back up their claims, and why would you believe those people if you had not heard the evidence for yourself?

There were several witnesses who had heard these tapes on the Channel 5 documentary which you purport to have studied. How did you miss them? Ray Strait listened to over 11 hours of these tapes.

Fred Otash secreted the tapes but upon his death the Secret Service stripped all three properties which Otash owned and the tapes - along with other documents - disappeared never to be seen again. At the same time, a filing cabinet containing Otash's most sensitive material was taken from his apartment by his lawyer and the contents of that too was never seen again.

The evidence from varied sources that these tapes existed is compelling, which is one of the reasons why I personally believe that they existed. Fred Otash's 1966 law suite to have them returned is conclusive proof.

Because they existed, and because there is also compelling evidence that Otash did bug Marilyn's house (as he bugged Rock Hudson's and others) and because the witnesses who claim to have heard the tapes come across as honest and very credible, and because their links to Otash and Marilyn are proven, then I also believe what they say regarding the contents of the tapes.

Again Mazz - what source do you rely on for you not to believe all this very credible evidence and testimony?

[Livia]

Oh that's okay, because you wont be able to find anything relating to enema's being fashionable in the 1960's, so there goes your theory?

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

[kirklancaster]

I think you need to show your source's that those tapes at Marilyn's house did actual exist...and no need for you to be so defensive as you can not prove what you say is right?

I'm not being 'defensive' - I am sure of my position and the very real reasons behind it.

I am beginning to suspect that you are merely a troll because you will not answer one single question but instead just repeat yourself - that is not debate.

[kirklancaster]

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

Some reearch for a book on the subject eh Livia? :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[Livia]

Some reearch for a book on the subject eh Livia? :shrug::shrug::shrug:

It's obviously a work of fiction.

[kirklancaster]

She is still alive hiding out in Costa Rica

:joker::joker::joker:

Riding Shergar with Elvis at the back of her and Lord Lucan shouting his support from the 92nd floor of a nearby vanilla skyscraper.

[kirklancaster]

It's obviously a work of fiction.

:joker::joker::joker:

That's my girl.

[Mazz01]

There were several witnesses who had heard these tapes on the Channel 5 documentary which you purport to have studied. How did you miss them? Ray Strait listened to over 11 hours of these tapes.

Fred Otash secreted the tapes but upon his death the Secret Service stripped all three properties which Otash owned and the tapes - along with other documents - disappeared never to be seen again. At the same time, a filing cabinet containing Otash's most sensitive material was taken from his apartment by his lawyer and the contents of that too was never seen again.


I'm not trying to cause any bad feelings but again why are you believing these people'' why has there not been any official report to back Otash claims of these tapes i'm sure he has also made alot of money from his stories, Marilyn had lived in her house for nearly six months how did these people gain access to her property how was that possible? how would they had carried out their bugging devices in the house because Marilyn had never left that house unattended for long when she went out to the film studio, seems odd that this had all happened under Marilyn's nose without any suspicion going on?


The evidence from varied sources that these tapes existed is compelling, which is one of the reasons why I personally believe that they existed. Fred Otash's 1966 law suite to have them returned is conclusive proof.

Because they existed, and because there is also compelling evidence that Otash did bug Marilyn's house (as he bugged Rock Hudson's and others) and because the witnesses who claim to have heard the tapes come across as honest and very credible, and because their links to Otash and Marilyn are proven, then I also believe what they say regarding the contents of the tapes.

Again Mazz - what source do you rely on for you not to believe all this very credible evidence and testimony?

You keep saying these tapes existed but you have never seen them or even listened to them...? seems strange that you would believe such claims, i was hoping that the channel 5 program might of had some real actual evidence to prove that these theories were actually true, but that program set out to make people believe what they had found was going to be explosive, but sadly they couldn't show the tapes because they did Not even exist?

[Mazz01]

It's obviously a work of fiction.

I think your own claims maybe fiction, :unsure:

[Mazz01]

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

But the point is you wont be able to find anything relating to it? meaning it was simply not that fashionable in the 60's as you had thought?

[Mazz01]

I'm not being 'defensive' - I am sure of my position and the very real reasons behind it.

I am beginning to suspect that you are merely a troll because you will not answer one single question but instead just repeat yourself - that is not debate.

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you have not been able to provide anything substantial has being real evidence so i think i will leave this discussion for now?

[Livia]

I think your own claims maybe fiction, :unsure:

I'm not actually claiming anything though... just putting forward an alternative view that has as much credence as anything you've written so far.

But the point is you wont be able to find anything relating to it? meaning it was simply not that fashionable in the 60's as you had thought?

And my point is... enemas and laxatives were fashionable in Hollywood for decades. They probably still are, along with the cabbage soup diet, bulimia, anorexia, diuretics, appetite suppressants and all the other things people have used to keep them thin.

Anyway, we're going round in circles. One of us may be right, all of us may be wrong. The difference is that I accept that.

[Livia]

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you are not been able to provide anything substantially has being actual evidence so i think i will leave this discussion for now?

You have opinions and conjecture formed from interpreting information written fifty years ago. You believing them doesn't make them facts.

[Mazz01]

I'm not actually claiming anything though... just putting forward an alternative view that has as much credence as anything you've written so far.



And my point is... enemas and laxatives were fashionable in Hollywood for decades. They probably still are, along with the cabbage soup diet, bulimia, anorexia, diuretics, appetite suppressants and all the other things people have used to keep them thin.

Anyway, we're going round in circles. One of us may be right, all of us may be wrong. The difference is that I accept that.

yes and you maybe right as well, i wasn't on here trying to start fights :)

[Cal.]

If you're so adamant your friend has never read up on these enemas - then they clearly haven't been doing very good research considering the subject is brought up in pretty much every speculation article on Marilyn's death. A brief Google search brings me to that conclusion.

[kirklancaster]

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you have not been able to provide anything substantially has being actual real evidence so i thinki will leave this discussion for now?

You flatter yourself. I am most certainly not threatened by your posts because up to now you have not posted anything but contentions without any corroborating evidence in support of what you contend, and yet that does not stop you from repeatedly claiming those unsupported contentions as 'FACT'.

What's more, because of the above, this hasn't been a 'discussion' , and yet, I don't want you to 'leave it', I want you to debate in a proper manner, otherwise this 'round robin' of unanswered points and unsubstantiated theories repeatedly being passed off as 'facts', is futile.

Nor do I want to have a row with you - no one on here does.

[Mazz01]

people cannot accept that someone famous dies a dull and boring death
she did, move on

I absolutely agree with you on that she died from the OD by her own hands, some of the conspiracy camp on here have not even read any of the information about the official autopsy report... if they had it would clear up alot of their misinformation?