Psychics, ghosts, supernatural stuff etc

[Crimson Dynamo]

Great documentary on last night on BBC 4 about the Amazing Randi (James Randi) and his life of exposing fakes and frauds. like Uri Geller and the like.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gyh3qgKidr0/TmfeCD6efkI/AAAAAAAAFTY/f9ElBj-Vceg/s1600/amazing_randi.jpg


I would think by 2014 there will be few people now who believe mediums but we still have people who think they have seen ghosts despite the total lack of evidence etc.

So what supernatural stuff do you believe and why?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04ndsb3/storyville-20142015-8-exposed-magicians-psychics-and-frauds

[Niamh.]

Unicorns

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unicorns

I am more talking about things that dont exist

[Niamh.]

I am more talking about things that dont exist

my sincerest apologies

[Crimson Dynamo]

my sincerest apologies

Its ok as I already knew that you would respond in this way by means of a small prophesy

[Kyle]

Manbearpig


I'm super cereal

[arista]

I do not need any help
I can sense a Ghost or Evil Ghost




Life In The City

[Crimson Dynamo]

The amazing Randi came out aged 81!

now that is pretty amazing

[Crimson Dynamo]

I do not need any help
I can sense a Ghost or Evil Ghost




Life In The City



What about good ghosts?

[arista]

What about good ghosts?


Never Good


Playing games
they are the Dead - still floating about

[kirklancaster]

You see millions of Ghosts every time you look up at the night sky - stars which died billions of years ago.

Who's to say that some 'energy' from 'dead' humans cannot sometimes be perceived by the living given a particular set of circumstances being ideal?

Do you seriously only believe in what your five senses perceive?

We know that some sounds exist which we cannot hear - ultra sonic ones. We know that some realities exist which we cannot see - atomic and sub atomic worlds within worlds. We know that there is something we call a 'sixth' sense because most of us have experienced it.

Radio and television waves are invisible and silent without a switched on receiver but they still exist without one.

Perhaps our brains - 90% of which we do not understand the function of - are capable of 'receiving' other types of wave energy which we have not identified yet but which exists nonetheless, and one type of such energy may emanate from human bodies after death - ghosts in other words.

Perhaps genuine photographs of ghosts have been obscured by the thousands of photographs faked by charlatans with varying degrees of success.

Who are we to dismiss everyone who claims to have seen a ghost as being liars, deluded or cranks? I am absolutely certain that some people have seen ghosts - especially of departed loved ones. They are not all nuts.

I will pose a variation of one of my favourite hypothetical scenarios; You are sitting at home with your partner or a friend, when say, Elvis appears to you. Old Elvis says; "I'm real man, but I'm a ghost . I just wanted you to know that death ain't the end. It's just the beginning. I need you to tell everybody man. Thank you very much". and with that he is gone. You both look at each other - yes it did just happen. Would you go out and tell anybody?

Would you hell. But even if you had the courage and actually did tell people - what reaction do you think you'd get? Even friends who would pay you 'lip service' to your face would think privately that you'd 'lost it' or were lying.

Think about it.

So how do we know that ghosts don't exist? How do we know that asylums haven't sometimes confined certain inmates who just should not have been there?

[the truth]

this ones a bit odd http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walesonline.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fwa les-news%2Fthomas-arms-llanelli-ghost-video-7416356&ei=eQNYVPmlOZXVaoGJgYAH&usg=AFQjCNFHi08HCvEFMwXQGut0wZmybXNFHA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.d2s

[kirklancaster]

this ones a bit odd http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walesonline.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fwa les-news%2Fthomas-arms-llanelli-ghost-video-7416356&ei=eQNYVPmlOZXVaoGJgYAH&usg=AFQjCNFHi08HCvEFMwXQGut0wZmybXNFHA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.d2s

The Welsh pub one is weird but two things make me feel it's B.S. - This purports to be CCTV footage so one would presume that the camera is 'fixed' yet the footage is shaking like the proverbial leaf, and the actual footage shows the identical sequence twice.

The other video of the hoodie being dragged by a ghost is out and out B.S. also - though I don't know how either footage was done.

[Marsh.]

this ones a bit odd http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walesonline.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fwa les-news%2Fthomas-arms-llanelli-ghost-video-7416356&ei=eQNYVPmlOZXVaoGJgYAH&usg=AFQjCNFHi08HCvEFMwXQGut0wZmybXNFHA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.d2s

Looks like the ghost is shafting someone over the sofa. :shocked:

[joeysteele]

You see millions of Ghosts every time you look up at the night sky - stars which died billions of years ago.

Who's to say that some 'energy' from 'dead' humans cannot sometimes be perceived by the living given a particular set of circumstances being ideal?

Do you seriously only believe in what your five senses perceive?

We know that some sounds exist which we cannot hear - ultra sonic ones. We know that some realities exist which we cannot see - atomic and sub atomic worlds within worlds. We know that there is something we call a 'sixth' sense because most of us have experienced it.

Radio and television waves are invisible and silent without a switched on receiver but they still exist without one.

Perhaps our brains - 90% of which we do not understand the function of - are capable of 'receiving' other types of wave energy which we have not identified yet but which exists nonetheless, and one type of such energy may emanate from human bodies after death - ghosts in other words.

Perhaps genuine photographs of ghosts have been obscured by the thousands of photographs faked by charlatans with varying degrees of success.

Who are we to dismiss everyone who claims to have seen a ghost as being liars, deluded or cranks? I am absolutely certain that some people have seen ghosts - especially of departed loved ones. They are not all nuts.

I will pose a variation of one of my favourite hypothetical scenarios; You are sitting at home with your partner or a friend, when say, Elvis appears to you. Old Elvis says; "I'm real man, but I'm a ghost . I just wanted you to know that death ain't the end. It's just the beginning. I need you to tell everybody man. Thank you very much". and with that he is gone. You both look at each other - yes it did just happen. Would you go out and tell anybody?

Would you hell. But even if you had the courage and actually did tell people - what reaction do you think you'd get? Even friends who would pay you 'lip service' to your face would think privately that you'd 'lost it' or were lying.

Think about it.

So how do we know that ghosts don't exist? How do we know that asylums haven't sometimes confined certain inmates who just should not have been there?

This is a fantastic post and I really commend you on making it.

It is massively thought provoking.
I have had things happen and heard of things which cannot just be explained away.
I do believe that some energy force leaves the human body once it dies and I hold an open mind as to what happens to that energy afterwards.

Brilliant post kirklancaster,in my view anyway.

[Kizzy]

Giving away the secrets of the parlour clairvoyants and magicians does not in any way rule out the possibility that there is something that we at the moment call a 'ghost'.

[Northern Monkey]

I've gotta say,I'm not a believer,Never have been.I even took my misses to stay in a 16th century so called 'haunted' pub where people claim to have seen things and been touched by ghostly beings just to prove to myself that i had the balls to stay in one and to see if i would encounter any spirits from another realm.But nothing was encountered and i stayed awake in the dark the majority of the night.
As for mediums,I think they are disgraceful frauds.The fact that they take peoples money and exploit their vulnerabilities is disgusting imo.
No offence to anyone who does believe in this stuff though,I just don't.

[Toy Soldier]

I've gotta say,I'm not a believer,Never have been.I even took my misses to stay in a 16th century so called 'haunted' pub where people claim to have seen things and been touched by ghostly beings just to prove to myself that i had the balls to stay in one and to see if i would encounter any spirits from another realm.But nothing was encountered and i stayed awake in the dark the majority of the night.
As for mediums,I think they are disgraceful frauds.The fact that they take peoples money and exploit their vulnerabilities is disgusting imo.
No offence to anyone who does believe in this stuff though,I just don't.
I agree, I don't mind the card tricks or the "mind reading" tricks where they get you to think of an animal and then they draw it, or whatever, but when they start using psychology tricks to make people think they're talking to dead loved ones... And take money for it... It just becomes very distasteful, in my opinion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Giving away the secrets of the parlour clairvoyants and magicians does not in any way rule out the possibility that there is something that we at the moment call a 'ghost'.

If you watch the documentary Randi did a lot more than that he exposed a wide variety of psychic scams, some government funded and offered 1 million dollars for anyone to provide proof, which of course no one ever did. He was also the first to expose the very lucrative Christian faith healer scams runnng in the USA where, like mediums, the healer worse an earpiece and used prayer requests to pretend:dance: to speak the "spirits. And thankfully he exposed Uri Gellar as a total fraud.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You see millions of Ghosts every time you look up at the night sky - stars which died billions of years ago. /snip


That is the problem with your post in general, we dont see ghosts we see physics in terms of distance and speed of light.

[kirklancaster]

That is the problem with your post in general, we dont see ghosts we see physics in terms of distance and speed of light.

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Once again LT, you are riding your two favourite high horses: 'Pedantics' and 'Terminology'.

Light is an electromagnetic wave. Starlight, Infra Red light, Light in the visible spectrum, Ultra Violet light, X-Rays, Gamma Rays etc - it's all radiant energy. So, the Starlight which we see in the night sky which has radiated from a 'long-dead star' is technically a 'ghost', and all I am saying; is that, why isn't it possible that some - as yet undiscovered - form of 'radiant energy leaves the human body upon 'death' -- a form of radiant energy which certain people in certain circumstances are able to perceive?

Just as radio and television waves are still there when our radios and TV's are switched 'off', then perhaps these radiant energy waves which have left a deceased person could be still there - silent and invisible, just like radio, TV and other energy waves.

And just as all radios and TV's have the 'potential' to 'receive' these waves but need to be 'switched on' and precisely 'tuned' in order to do so, then perhaps all human brains have the potential to receive 'dead human radiant energy waves' but similarly need the brain to be in a state of precise 'tuning', and the environmental conditions outside of the brain to be in 'harmonious synch' in order to enable such reception. Perhaps when such conditions are 'perfect' then the subject can and will perceive that 'dead human radiant energy' which we have come to term; 'ghosts'.

Just to spoil your day LT and have you scurrying to research 'May–September 1988 Radio Carbon Dating Test' :hehe: I wholeheartedly believe that this 'emission' of 'dead human radiant energy' - only a trillion times stronger in magnitude - was what occurred when the Christ 'rose from the dead' and caused the image on the burial cloth which we call 'The Shroud of Turin'.

But that's a whole other complex, and long and lengthy thread. (which will no doubt elicit purely intelligent, civil, discussion and relevant responses with no irrational overly-aggressive responses, no inane mocking comments which do not stick to topic and have no purpose other than to ridicule, and no irrelevant remarking. Well? I can dream can't I?)

Anyway, back to the subject matter - though digressing slightly;

Physics - your favourite subject:

If the universe is expanding (Big Bang et al) and as light 'diffracts' - spreads out as it travels - independently of this expansion, and if some of these 'dead stars' which are the source of this light are trillions of light years from our vantage point on Earth, then why do we still see the travelling light from these distant dead stars as starlight? Why hasn't it acted in accordance with the 'Laws of Physics' and spread out and dimmed as a massively wide glow of light? Why hasn't it changed colour even as it has 'cooled'?

I ask from a position of ignorance.

[kirklancaster]

This is a fantastic post and I really commend you on making it.

It is massively thought provoking.
I have had things happen and heard of things which cannot just be explained away.
I do believe that some energy force leaves the human body once it dies and I hold an open mind as to what happens to that energy afterwards.

Brilliant post kirklancaster,in my view anyway.

Thank you Joey. I believe the same as you do. :wavey:

[kirklancaster]

Looks like the ghost is shafting someone over the sofa. :shocked:

:joker::joker::joker:

I peed myself last night at this, and still laughed at it this morning. Your brain works in mysterious ways. Freud would crack up, but personally, I think if you went to have a check up by a qualified Chuckleologist, he would diagnose that the giggling pin which links your laughing shaft to your ha ha organ is grossly distended.

I love you Marsh. :blush:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Once again LT, you are riding your two favourite high horses: 'Pedantics' and 'Terminology'.

Light is an electromagnetic wave. Starlight, Infra Red light, Light in the visible spectrum, Ultra Violet light, X-Rays, Gamma Rays etc - it's all radiant energy. So, the Starlight which we see in the night sky which has radiated from a 'long-dead star' is technically a 'ghost', and all I am saying; is that, why isn't it possible that some - as yet undiscovered - form of 'radiant energy leaves the human body upon 'death' -- a form of radiant energy which certain people in certain circumstances are able to perceive?

Just as radio and television waves are still there when our radios and TV's are switched 'off', then perhaps these radiant energy waves which have left a deceased person could be still there - silent and invisible, just like radio, TV and other energy waves.

And just as all radios and TV's have the 'potential' to 'receive' these waves but need to be 'switched on' and precisely 'tuned' in order to do so, then perhaps all human brains have the potential to receive 'dead human radiant energy waves' but similarly need the brain to be in a state of precise 'tuning', and the environmental conditions outside of the brain to be in 'harmonious synch' in order to enable such reception. Perhaps when such conditions are 'perfect' then the subject can and will perceive that 'dead human radiant energy' which we have come to term; 'ghosts'.

Just to spoil your day LT and have you scurrying to research 'May–September 1988 Radio Carbon Dating Test' :hehe: I wholeheartedly believe that this 'emission' of 'dead human radiant energy' - only a trillion times stronger in magnitude - was what occurred when the Christ 'rose from the dead' and caused the image on the burial cloth which we call 'The Shroud of Turin'.

But that's a whole other complex, and long and lengthy thread. (which will no doubt elicit purely intelligent, civil, discussion and relevant responses with no irrational overly-aggressive responses, no inane mocking comments which do not stick to topic and have no purpose other than to ridicule, and no irrelevant remarking. Well? I can dream can't I?)

Anyway, back to the subject matter - though digressing slightly;

Physics - your favourite subject:

If the universe is expanding (Big Bang et al) and as light 'diffracts' - spreads out as it travels - independently of this expansion, and if some of these 'dead stars' which are the source of this light are trillions of light years from our vantage point on Earth, then why do we still see the travelling light from these distant dead stars as starlight? Why hasn't it acted in accordance with the 'Laws of Physics' and spread out and dimmed as a massively wide glow of light? Why hasn't it changed colour even as it has 'cooled'?

I ask from a position of ignorance.

Usual word salad that amounts to nothing more than an idea that you have formulated with no basis in fact.

Essentially my answer to all that text above is that if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle but she aint and she dont

As for your physics question, go look up the answer, I am not your pa.

[kirklancaster]

Usual word salad that amounts to nothing more than an idea that you have formulated with no basis in fact.

Essentially my answer to all that text above is that if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle but she aint and she dont

As for your physics question, go look up the answer, I am not your pa.

Oh well - Angry is as angry does. Momma always said TIBB is like working on the bin rounds - ya never know what rubbish ya gonna get.

Bye for ever LT. :wavey:

ps. I already know the (rather confusing) answer to the physics question, I thought you being so fond of quoting physics could perhaps enlighten me.

Oh, and as this is a Forum where intelligent ideas and valid viewpoints are meant to be exchanged, I'd much prefer a diet of 'word salads' which are relevant to the topic under discussion, than 'morsels' of irrational, unnecessary, uncalled for anger which are not.

[Liam-]

Oh well - Angry is as angry does. Momma always said TIBB is like working on the bin rounds - ya never know what rubbish ya gonna get.

Bye for ever LT. :wavey:

ps. I already know the (rather confusing) answer to the physics question, I thought you being so fond of quoting physics could perhaps enlighten me.

Oh, and as this is a Forum where intelligent ideas and valid viewpoints are meant to be exchanged, I'd much prefer a diet of 'word salads' which are relevant to the topic under discussion, than 'morsels' of irrational, unnecessary, uncalled for anger which are not.

:clap1:

Well said.

[Kizzy]

If you watch the documentary Randi did a lot more than that he exposed a wide variety of psychic scams, some government funded and offered 1 million dollars for anyone to provide proof, which of course no one ever did. He was also the first to expose the very lucrative Christian faith healer scams runnng in the USA where, like mediums, the healer worse an earpiece and used prayer requests to pretend:dance: to speak the "spirits. And thankfully he exposed Uri Gellar as a total fraud.

I don't doubt that he did... good for him, that doesn't change my view as stated in my post that I still believe in the possibility of a life force that exists after death :dance:.

[Liam-]

I'm not a very spiritual person in general, but when it comes to the after life, I'm a very firm believe in it.. If something has enough a mass of energy like the soul is said to have, I can't see how it would just evaporate into nothingness and just stop existing as soon as it's outer body dies.

I love all things paranormal, so stuff like this greatly intrigues me, of course some things have been faked pretty badly and some have been fake exceedingly well, but there is so much out there and so much evidence that i find it hard not to believe.

[kirklancaster]

I'm not a very spiritual person in general, but when it comes to the after life, I'm a very firm believe in it.. If something has enough a mass of energy like the soul is said to have, I can't see how it would just evaporate into nothingness and just stop existing as soon as it's outer body dies.

I love all things paranormal, so stuff like this greatly intrigues me, of course some things have been faked pretty badly and some have been fake exceedingly well, but there is so much out there and so much evidence that i find it hard not to believe.

Good for you Liam. This attitude that because the inevitable charlatans and rogues exist then therefore, there is nothing paranormal, is banal.

Imagine if any kind of scientific research had the same narrow attitude?

Imagine any type of Gold mining operation, digging up nothing but thousands of tons of non gold bearing ore then saying; "FK it Gold doesn't exist here lets pack it in".

Imagine the pursuit of anything guided by such ludicrous views? Oil drilling. Coal mining. Cancer research? Anything.

Keep believing and questioning and looking - that's really how science works. :wavey:

And sincere thanks for the earlier support.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't doubt that he did... good for him, that doesn't change my view as stated in my post that I still believe in the possibility of a life force that exists after death :dance:.

Wishful thinking is a very human and evolutionary aspect of our personality:dance:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm not a very spiritual person in general, but when it comes to the after life, I'm a very firm believe in it.. If something has enough a mass of energy like the soul is said to have, I can't see how it would just evaporate into nothingness and just stop existing as soon as it's outer body dies.

I love all things paranormal, so stuff like this greatly intrigues me, of course some things have been faked pretty badly and some have been fake exceedingly well, but there is so much out there and so much evidence that i find it hard not to believe.

Perhaps you could share one example where "there and so much evidence that i find it hard not to believe."

[Kizzy]

Wishful thinking is a very human and evolutionary aspect of our personality:dance:

That it may, thank jesus :dance: you're such an expert on every aspect of the human psyche to know these things.

[Josy]

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Once again LT, you are riding your two favourite high horses: 'Pedantics' and 'Terminology'.

Light is an electromagnetic wave. Starlight, Infra Red light, Light in the visible spectrum, Ultra Violet light, X-Rays, Gamma Rays etc - it's all radiant energy. So, the Starlight which we see in the night sky which has radiated from a 'long-dead star' is technically a 'ghost', and all I am saying; is that, why isn't it possible that some - as yet undiscovered - form of 'radiant energy leaves the human body upon 'death' -- a form of radiant energy which certain people in certain circumstances are able to perceive?

Just as radio and television waves are still there when our radios and TV's are switched 'off', then perhaps these radiant energy waves which have left a deceased person could be still there - silent and invisible, just like radio, TV and other energy waves.

And just as all radios and TV's have the 'potential' to 'receive' these waves but need to be 'switched on' and precisely 'tuned' in order to do so, then perhaps all human brains have the potential to receive 'dead human radiant energy waves' but similarly need the brain to be in a state of precise 'tuning', and the environmental conditions outside of the brain to be in 'harmonious synch' in order to enable such reception. Perhaps when such conditions are 'perfect' then the subject can and will perceive that 'dead human radiant energy' which we have come to term; 'ghosts'.

Just to spoil your day LT and have you scurrying to research 'May–September 1988 Radio Carbon Dating Test' :hehe: I wholeheartedly believe that this 'emission' of 'dead human radiant energy' - only a trillion times stronger in magnitude - was what occurred when the Christ 'rose from the dead' and caused the image on the burial cloth which we call 'The Shroud of Turin'.

But that's a whole other complex, and long and lengthy thread. (which will no doubt elicit purely intelligent, civil, discussion and relevant responses with no irrational overly-aggressive responses, no inane mocking comments which do not stick to topic and have no purpose other than to ridicule, and no irrelevant remarking. Well? I can dream can't I?)

Anyway, back to the subject matter - though digressing slightly;

Physics - your favourite subject:

If the universe is expanding (Big Bang et al) and as light 'diffracts' - spreads out as it travels - independently of this expansion, and if some of these 'dead stars' which are the source of this light are trillions of light years from our vantage point on Earth, then why do we still see the travelling light from these distant dead stars as starlight? Why hasn't it acted in accordance with the 'Laws of Physics' and spread out and dimmed as a massively wide glow of light? Why hasn't it changed colour even as it has 'cooled'?

I ask from a position of ignorance.

Amazing post Kirk :clap1:

I have posted a few times on here that I don't believe in 'ghosts' as such but I do definitely believe in residual energies that have been created by both humans, animals and so on and that will eventually fade out over time, I just can't imagine for example someone living until they were 90 years old, carrying out the same routine each and every day for a long time then when they pass on that energy just dies instantly?.

I truly think residual energy from people of the past is what most people are seeing/sensing when they feel as if a building is haunted, I also find it kinda sad in a way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That it may, thank jesus :dance: you're such an expert on every aspect of the human psyche to know these things.

I am sorry that life is not as mysterious as you think

[Crimson Dynamo]

Amazing post Kirk :clap1:

I have posted a few times on here that I don't believe in 'ghosts' as such but I do definitely believe in residual energies that have been created by both humans, animals and so on and that will eventually fade out over time, I just can't imagine for example someone living until they were 90 years old, carrying out the same routine each and every day for a long time then when they pass on that energy just dies instantly?.

I truly think residual energy from people of the past is what most people are seeing/sensing when they feel as if a building is haunted, I also find it kinda sad in a way.

Are you saying that these "energies" conform to the laws of physics and if so what are they made of?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=5597

is an interesting scientific discourse about where does the energy of the body go after death

[Kizzy]

I am sorry that life is not as mysterious as you think

I'm sorry your life is not as mysterious as it could be...

[Josy]

Are you saying that these "energies" conform to the laws of physics and if so what are they made of?

I was posting my opinion in reply to Kirk, if you are interested you could go read up on the subject with an open mind.

[Kizzy]

Amazing post Kirk :clap1:

I have posted a few times on here that I don't believe in 'ghosts' as such but I do definitely believe in residual energies that have been created by both humans, animals and so on and that will eventually fade out over time, I just can't imagine for example someone living until they were 90 years old, carrying out the same routine each and every day for a long time then when they pass on that energy just dies instantly?.

I truly think residual energy from people of the past is what most people are seeing/sensing when they feel as if a building is haunted, I also find it kinda sad in a way.

I agree with this too, we have a conscience self and a subconscience self.. at what point does our subconcience/spirt/essence/energy realise our heart has stopped beating?
It's something to ponder if you can open your mind wide enough isn't it?

[Kizzy]

Are you saying that these "energies" conform to the laws of physics and if so what are they made of?

Go explain to people who practice a religion that their beliefs have no basis in science, and good luck with that.

[kirklancaster]

Amazing post Kirk :clap1:

I have posted a few times on here that I don't believe in 'ghosts' as such but I do definitely believe in residual energies that have been created by both humans, animals and so on and that will eventually fade out over time, I just can't imagine for example someone living until they were 90 years old, carrying out the same routine each and every day for a long time then when they pass on that energy just dies instantly?.

I truly think residual energy from people of the past is what most people are seeing/sensing when they feel as if a building is haunted, I also find it kinda sad in a way.

Thanks Josy. Residual energy is a brilliant term for what I was trying to say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Go explain to people who practice a religion that their beliefs have no basis in science, and good luck with that.

They dont and that is why in every developing and educated country religion eventually dies out

[kirklancaster]

I agree with this too, we have a conscience self and a subconscience self.. at what point does our subconcience/spirt/essence/energy realise our heart has stopped beating?
It's something to ponder if you can open your mind wide enough isn't it?


Well said Kizzy. :wavey::clap1::clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

open your mind too much and your brain will fall out...


:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[AnnieK]

Given what's going on in my life at the moment I hope that there is something in a person that carries on

[Kizzy]

Given what's going on in my life at the moment I hope that there is something in a person that carries on

That doesn't sound too good annie :( hope you're ok.

[Kizzy]

They dont and that is why in every developing and educated country religion eventually dies out

In what country has that happened in on which to base your hypothesis?

[Kazanne]

Looks like the ghost is shafting someone over the sofa. :shocked:

:joker::joker:Marsh,lol trust you

[Crimson Dynamo]

In what country has that happened in on which to base your hypothesis?

Trends

Church attendance in advanced industrial societies is in gradual general decline with people shifting from weekly to monthly or holiday attendance. Sociologists have attributed this trend to a number of reasons, starting from a simple boredom during services and lack of motivation, to generational incompatibility of belief systems and social changes attributed to modernity.Research across 65 different nations showed that out of 20 advanced industrial countries - 16 demonstrated a declining rate of monthly church attendance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

[Kizzy]

Trends

Church attendance in advanced industrial societies is in gradual general decline with people shifting from weekly to monthly or holiday attendance. Sociologists have attributed this trend to a number of reasons, starting from a simple boredom during services and lack of motivation, to generational incompatibility of belief systems and social changes attributed to modernity.Research across 65 different nations showed that out of 20 advanced industrial countries - 16 demonstrated a declining rate of monthly church attendance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

1st world problems, people are becoming less spiritual according to the gospel of St wiki?

There is and always has been a flux in religious observance.

[arista]

1st world problems, people are becoming less spiritual according to the gospel of St wiki?

There is and always has been a flux in religious observance.



Bang On Right

There Is No God

[Kizzy]

God, ghosts, little green men from mars... We mock what we don't understand.

[Crimson Dynamo]

God, ghosts, little green men from mars... We mock what we don't understand.

No we dont, science tries to solve what we dont understand and logic exposes fraud and superstition.

There is a very good reason why, in courts up and down the land, they deal in fact -saying that god told you to steal a car or that a ghost put a bag of crack in your back pocket will get you nowhere.

(and swearing on a bible is tradition)

[kirklancaster]

1st world problems, people are becoming less spiritual according to the gospel of St wiki?

There is and always has been a flux in religious observance.

Bravo.

What's more any drop in the number of people of orthodox religions attending church or synagogue or mosque, is no indicator of any reduction in the numbers of people who have beliefs or faith.

That's like saying that there are more people who do not drink alcohol now because the numbers of people visiting pubs and clubs have dropped.

Perhaps it's just that people continue to drink just as before but at home watching TV or having friends round because they no longer see the need or have the desire to go out to enjoy a drink.

I firmly believe in God and Jesus as the Christ, but I don't feel the need to go to any church, and I'd bet there are millions of people who believe in something who don't feel the need to either.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sadly for the lone ranger christians the Bible says otherwise. The bible calls for christians to meet and worship together, hence the reason why churches exist.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t009.html

[Livia]

I believe your spirit goes on after death, I don't know how, I can't explain it... if I could there would be a church of Livia. But I don't think that anyone can contact people "on the other side". Mediums, as far as I am concerned, are charlatans preying on the vulnerable. I can't imagine how anyone who's seen Derren Brown perform, and hear that he says he has no psychic powers at all, can still think mediums are for real.

[JoshBB]

You see millions of Ghosts every time you look up at the night sky - stars which died billions of years ago.


You do realise that stars are;

1) absolutely lightyears away, we wouldn't be able to travel anywhere near one.
2) stars are formed from protostars which come from stellar nebulas.

[Livia]

You do realise that stars are;

1) absolutely lightyears away, we wouldn't be able to travel anywhere near one.
2) stars are formed from protostars which come from stellar nebulas.

At the time the Wright Brothers first flew, the idea of a man walking on the moon would have been preposterous. And yet it took only sixty years. Who knows what technologies will be unlocked in the future?

[Kyle]

1st world problems, people are becoming less spiritual according to the gospel of St wiki?

There is and always has been a flux in religious observance.

Church attendance in the UK has been declining for years. In what circumstances do you see that trend being bucked?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Church attendance in the UK has been declining for years. In what circumstances do you see that trend being bucked?

the only upturn is in the african dominated charismatic churches in London

[Northern Monkey]

Church attendance in the UK has been declining for years. In what circumstances do you see that trend being bucked?

The only way i see that trend reversing would be with the second coming of Christ.He would literally have to walk on water and feed the five thousand live on national TV.

[kirklancaster]

You do realise that stars are;

1) absolutely lightyears away, we wouldn't be able to travel anywhere near one.
2) stars are formed from protostars which come from stellar nebulas.

Yes Josh BB I do realise that stars are light years away, but I don't see what relevance that has with the subject? I only used the light from dead stars as a kind of analogy and never mentioned reaching any stars.

In any case - as Livia pointed out - interstellar flight is only an impossibility now, because of our lack of adequate technological knowledge, but that could all change with each new breakthrough in science.

I just wish it was in my lifetime but that possibility's remote. :wavey:

[kirklancaster]

I believe your spirit goes on after death, I don't know how, I can't explain it... if I could there would be a church of Livia. .

Ah.... Then I would start attending church to worship:blush:

[kirklancaster]

The only way i see that trend reversing would be with the second coming of Christ.He would literally have to walk on water and feed the five thousand live on national TV.

By which time it would all be too late.

[Ammi]

I believe your spirit goes on after death, I don't know how, I can't explain it... if I could there would be a church of Livia. But I don't think that anyone can contact people "on the other side". Mediums, as far as I am concerned, are charlatans preying on the vulnerable. I can't imagine how anyone who's seen Derren Brown perform, and hear that he says he has no psychic powers at all, can still think mediums are for real.


..I believe this as well..when someone dies it's just an 'empty body' but where does the 'essence' of that person go..what made them laugh/cry/feel emotion...that thing that made them unique and what they were..I don't think that just disappears, it's too strong and I do believe it can be felt as well...

[Creggle]

Ghosts etc is a murky topic for me, there could be some truth to some of the bollox you hear/see out there, but it's not related to religion, religion is a complete farce. Hopefully one day it's stamped out, imagine if all that time/effort spent on religion over the past 1-200 years had been devoted to science instead... We'd of colonized the entire solar system by now, ****ing religion... What has religion actually done for the human race? The crusades, the gulf war, Hitlers tyranny, extremists, the inquisition, human sacrifice... It's nothing more than an excuse to control people and commit atrocities.

[Marsh.]

:joker::joker:Marsh,lol trust you

:fan:

[Marsh.]

:joker::joker::joker:

I peed myself last night at this, and still laughed at it this morning. Your brain works in mysterious ways. Freud would crack up, but personally, I think if you went to have a check up by a qualified Chuckleologist, he would diagnose that the giggling pin which links your laughing shaft to your ha ha organ is grossly distended.

I love you Marsh. :blush:

:lovedup:

[kirklancaster]

Ghosts etc is a murky topic for me, there could be some truth to some of the bollox you hear/see out there, but it's not related to religion, religion is a complete farce. Hopefully one day it's stamped out, imagine if all that time/effort spent on religion over the past 1-200 years had been devoted to science instead... We'd of colonized the entire solar system by now, ****ing religion... What has religion actually done for the human race? The crusades, the gulf war, Hitlers tyranny, extremists, the inquisition, human sacrifice... It's nothing more than an excuse to control people and commit atrocities.

And who first brought 'religion' into this topic?

I think that if man had lived by the 10 commandments over the past few thousands of years then we would have maybe conquered the universe at least, but would definitely have conquered disease, famine, drought, and even the ageing process, because - had man abided by the commandments - then there would have been no murders, thefts etc, and therefore, the zillion, sqillion, trillion billions which have been wasted,and are still being wasted, on fighting crime and wars, would have been instead invested in all types of research.

Anyway, all of the things you point out are man's doing and man's alone. Religion is man's invention.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And who first brought 'religion' into this topic?

I think that if man had lived by the 10 commandments over the past few thousands of years then we would have maybe conquered the universe at least, but would definitely have conquered disease, famine, drought, and even the ageing process, because - had man abided by the commandments - then there would have been no murders, thefts etc, and therefore, the zillion, sqillion, trillion billions which have been wasted,and are still being wasted, on fighting crime and wars, would have been instead invested in all types of research.

Anyway, all of the things you point out are man's doing and man's alone. Religion is man's invention.

If man had lived by the 10 commandments we would conquered the universe?


:joker:

[Livia]

If man had lived by the 10 commandments we would conquered the universe?


:joker:

Maybe if we'd have put all the energy, money, time and knowhow that we've put into hating and killing each other and used those resources for something more constructive and beautiful the world would have been a very different place now. I'm not saying if everyone was religious that would have happened - we all know that religion doesn't have the monopoly on good, moral people - just that if we'd been the kind of species who didn't steal, murder, lie and covet our neighbour's ox, mankind might have been a greater species than we've turned out to be. Also, maybe science and technology might not have been as destructive as it's been because people could have been more ethical. We've gobbled up resources in our pursuit of technological advancement, almost exclusively driven by war and/or money, and in some cases that's resulted in devastation as great as war itself.

[Marsh.]

Maybe if we'd have put all the energy, money, time and knowhow that we've put into hating and killing each other and used those resources for something more constructive and beautiful the world would have been a very different place now. I'm not saying if everyone was religious that would have happened - we all know that religion doesn't have the monopoly on good, moral people - just that if we'd been the kind of species who didn't steal, murder, lie and covet our neighbour's ox, mankind might have been a greater species than we've turned out to be. Also, maybe science and technology might not have been as destructive as it's been because people could have been more ethical. We've gobbled up resources in our pursuit of technological advancement, almost exclusively driven by war and/or money, and in some cases that's resulted in devastation as great as war itself.

Great post.

[Dollface]

Maybe if we'd have put all the energy, money, time and knowhow that we've put into hating and killing each other and used those resources for something more constructive and beautiful the world would have been a very different place now. I'm not saying if everyone was religious that would have happened - we all know that religion doesn't have the monopoly on good, moral people - just that if we'd been the kind of species who didn't steal, murder, lie and covet our neighbour's ox, mankind might have been a greater species than we've turned out to be. Also, maybe science and technology might not have been as destructive as it's been because people could have been more ethical. We've gobbled up resources in our pursuit of technological advancement, almost exclusively driven by war and/or money, and in some cases that's resulted in devastation as great as war itself.

Like Marsh said, brilliant post Livia :clap2:

[Creggle]

And who first brought 'religion' into this topic?

I think that if man had lived by the 10 commandments over the past few thousands of years then we would have maybe conquered the universe at least, but would definitely have conquered disease, famine, drought, and even the ageing process, because - had man abided by the commandments - then there would have been no murders, thefts etc, and therefore, the zillion, sqillion, trillion billions which have been wasted,and are still being wasted, on fighting crime and wars, would have been instead invested in all types of research.

Anyway, all of the things you point out are man's doing and man's alone. Religion is man's invention.

Yeah but people as a whole, are corrupt. Something like Religion would perhaps work if chimps figured out what it was :joker: but people cannot have something like religion without all of the sh!t that's happened over the years due to religious zealotry. If something is corruptable, we will corrupt it. Religion is the most vulnerable thing to corruption going and really shouldn't be allowed.

Maybe if we'd have put all the energy, money, time and knowhow that we've put into hating and killing each other and used those resources for something more constructive and beautiful the world would have been a very different place now. I'm not saying if everyone was religious that would have happened - we all know that religion doesn't have the monopoly on good, moral people - just that if we'd been the kind of species who didn't steal, murder, lie and covet our neighbour's ox, mankind might have been a greater species than we've turned out to be. Also, maybe science and technology might not have been as destructive as it's been because people could have been more ethical. We've gobbled up resources in our pursuit of technological advancement, almost exclusively driven by war and/or money, and in some cases that's resulted in devastation as great as war itself.

Isn't it strange though that the majority of killing and hating has been because of religion? Don't get me wrong we as a whole will use any excuse to commit atrocities but if it wasn't for religion they'd of been much harder to cover up.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe if we'd have put all the energy, money, time and knowhow that we've put into hating and killing each other and used those resources for something more constructive and beautiful the world would have been a very different place now. I'm not saying if everyone was religious that would have happened - we all know that religion doesn't have the monopoly on good, moral people - just that if we'd been the kind of species who didn't steal, murder, lie and covet our neighbour's ox, mankind might have been a greater species than we've turned out to be. Also, maybe science and technology might not have been as destructive as it's been because people could have been more ethical. We've gobbled up resources in our pursuit of technological advancement, almost exclusively driven by war and/or money, and in some cases that's resulted in devastation as great as war itself.

Yes but life is not like that and never will be. One of the great problems of religion is this quest for nirvana rather than reality.

Its easy to see the problems but the solutions are hard to find. Education and population control is one of the answers.

[Livia]

Isn't it strange though that the majority of killing and hating has been because of religion? Don't get me wrong we as a whole will use any excuse to commit atrocities but if it wasn't for religion they'd of been much harder to cover up.

WW1 & 2 didn't have anything to do with religion. Japan massacring its way through south east Asia didn't have anything to do with religion. Vietnam didn't have anything to do with religion. Stalin slaughtered millions, but not in the name of religion. Although a lot of killing has been done in the name of religion, if we didn't have religion we'd still have spend a good part of history killing each other for power and/or money.

[Livia]

Yes but life is not like that and never will be.

... was my point. Humans are greedy, covetous and violent, religious or not.

[Crimson Dynamo]

... was my point. Humans are greedy, covetous and violent, religious or not.

Indeed and only humans could have dreamed up a scheme like religion to justify all of the above and do so wearing silly clothes

[kirklancaster]

WW1 & 2 didn't have anything to do with religion. Japan massacring its way through south east Asia didn't have anything to do with religion. Vietnam didn't have anything to do with religion. Stalin slaughtered millions, but not in the name of religion. Although a lot of killing has been done in the name of religion, if we didn't have religion we'd still have spend a good part of history killing each other for power and/or money.

So perfectly put. :flowers:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:umm2:

[Creggle]

WW1 & 2 didn't have anything to do with religion. Japan massacring its way through south east Asia didn't have anything to do with religion. Vietnam didn't have anything to do with religion. Stalin slaughtered millions, but not in the name of religion. Although a lot of killing has been done in the name of religion, if we didn't have religion we'd still have spend a good part of history killing each other for power and/or money.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Christianity was Hitler's main motivation for the majority of the things in his regime, he is what happens when a religious extremist so happens to wear a suit and lead a country.

[Northern Monkey]

I'm not religious.However i don't blame religion for all the wrongs in the world.It's all down to mankind.However intelligent we are,We are still just animals,Quite highly evolved animals but still animals and we behave as such,It's instinct.We are territorial just like many species and we fight each other mainly for territory.Chimps are'nt saints either btw,They can be incredibly nasty and that has'nt left us.I saw a doc on a group of chimps that went around in a pack and they encountered a lone chimp in the jungle and they set about it and literally ripped it apart,They ripped its genitals off and stamped all over it.I believe that mankind will wipe itself out before we ever get the chance to evolve into a higher species.

[Kizzy]

No we dont, science tries to solve what we dont understand and logic exposes fraud and superstition.

There is a very good reason why, in courts up and down the land, they deal in fact -saying that god told you to steal a car or that a ghost put a bag of crack in your back pocket will get you nowhere.

(and swearing on a bible is tradition)

Science can only go so far, it is not infallable is it as science is constantly being evaluated and reevaluated, disproved and discredited also as breakthroughs are being made.
Who knows what science will uncover tomorrow?

[Kizzy]

Church attendance in the UK has been declining for years. In what circumstances do you see that trend being bucked?

And why are we discussing the decline in church attendance in the UK..does that act as a marker that the world has given up on the concept of religion somehow?
Many people have faith and or spirituality who have never set foot in a church.

[Kizzy]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Christianity was Hitler's main motivation for the majority of the things in his regime, he is what happens when a religious extremist so happens to wear a suit and lead a country.

According to this quote his warped perception of Christianity propelled him towards the holocaust.

'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

[Creggle]

According to this quote his warped perception of Christianity propelled him towards the holocaust.

'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

Yep, religion itself isn't so bad (magnet for naivety at the worst) it's what it does to people that's bad. Somebody could read a passage from the Bible, Quran etc. and take it too literally or misconstrue its meaning, and suddenly it snowballs into a warped perception or ideology and it leads to atrocities like we've seen all through history. Religion is basically a weapon, some people wield it for the wrong reasons and kill/cause suffering to others. Unlike any other weapon though, there's no rules or regulations and there can't be really, so for the greater good it would be best removed or at least supervised. Both of those steps are nigh on impossible though, so we're stuck with nutcases like Hitler/ISIS running around doing their best to ruin the world, and people who devote their entire lives to religion that could of gone on to achieve wonderful things. I can respect why some turn to religion though, it gives a person false hope in this cesspit of a world we live in, and it's only human to cling to things like that, I guess some things we go through in life are easier to handle when we have faith to cling to.

Funnily enough I'm an optimist btw. :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Yep, religion itself isn't so bad (magnet for naivety at the worst) it's what it does to people that's bad. Somebody could read a passage from the Bible, Quran etc. and take it too literally or misconstrue its meaning, and suddenly it snowballs into a warped perception or ideology and it leads to atrocities like we've seen all through history. Religion is basically a weapon, some people wield it for the wrong reasons and kill/cause suffering to others. Unlike any other weapon though, there's no rules or regulations and there can't be really, so for the greater good it would be best removed or at least supervised. Both of those steps are nigh on impossible though, so we're stuck with nutcases like Hitler/ISIS running around doing their best to ruin the world, and people who devote their entire lives to religion that could of gone on to achieve wonderful things. I can respect why some turn to religion though, it gives a person false hope in this cesspit of a world we live in, and it's only human to cling to things like that, I guess some things we go through in life are easier to handle when we have faith to cling to.

Funnily enough I'm an optimist btw. :hehe:

A good post Creggle. Good points.

[kirklancaster]

'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

How such an insignificant, twisted, evil, little turd like Hitler captivated entire Nations and went on to cause a world war and, perpetrate the most mind-numbing, evil atrocities in human history, is unfathomable.

The incestuous bastard even spouts vitriolic lies in the above passage from Kizzie.

Jesus was a Jew himself - not a Christian, there were no Christians until after his death. Jesus did not fight against any 'Jewish' position per se. Yes, he was angered by corruption, inequality, the abuse of privilege - all the bad elements in life which were just as prevalent in Jewish society in Judea in his time, as they always have been in any other Country, before and since. Jesus's rage against the money changers in the Temple therefore, was not a rage against his own race - the Jews, but against what he perceived as corrupt practices by a very small minority of Jews.

Jesus's crucifixion on Calvary was preordained. It was his 'raison d'etre' the sole reason for his very existence. Judas Iscariot, Caiaphas, The Great Sanhedrin were all just unwitting pawns in God's Grand Plan to have his only son sacrificed. It had to be this way.

The Jews did not kill Christ. This is a vile anti-semitic falsehood perpetrated throughout history by anti-semitic hate-mongers for their own evil ends.

The Jews did not kill Christ - how could they have? because the Jews did not regard Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah (they still don't) so to the ruling Jewish authorities of his time, Jesus was nothing more than one of many 'false prophets', political agitators, and 'revolutionaries', who were a threat to their relatively peaceful existence under Roman rule, and to the very hard-fought and tenuous concessions they had won from them - including many concessions regarding their all-important religious practices and the Temple itself.

The Jews tried the criminal upstart and blasphemer Jesus of Nazareth as far as they were aware and concerned, and during his brief 'trial', Jesus had several opportunities to 'save himself' - he did not choose to because it was his sole preordained mission to die on the cross.

Remember, that although Caiaphas undoubtedly desired the death sentence for Jesus the blasphemer, Judaic law forbid it, and Jesus's death had to be sanctioned by the Roman Procurator Pontius Pilate, so it was a Roman not a Jew who actually sentenced Jesus to death.

For Christ - he had to die for the sake of all humanity.

For Caiaphas - Jesus had to die for the sake of Jewish survival under their Roman oppressors.

One for the sake of many. The parallel is notable.

In any event, Hitler - far from being a 'Christian' is the 'Anti-Christ'.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Science can only go so far, it is not infallable is it as science is constantly being evaluated and reevaluated, disproved and discredited also as breakthroughs are being made.
Who knows what science will uncover tomorrow?

Yes and thankgoodness

Sadly religion closed its doors 2000 years ago

As you can see above.....

[Nedusa]

What about the Ghosts...??? What happened to the Ghosts

This thread was about the existance of Ghosts now it's degenerated into the usual for or against Religion.




.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What about the Ghosts...??? What happened to the Ghosts

This thread was about the existance of Ghosts now it's degenerated into the usual for or against Religion.




.

Dont forget the holy ghost!

[kirklancaster]

What about the Ghosts...??? What happened to the Ghosts

This thread was about the existance of Ghosts now it's degenerated into the usual for or against Religion.

.

Yes Nedusa - and look back through the posts and see just who brought religion into this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The thread is about the supernatural and so religion will be an integral part

The holy ghost being the original ghost and probably where all fictional ghosts come from

[Liam-]

Really?.. another religious debate? Have mercy on us all.

[kirklancaster]

Really?.. another religious debate? Have mercy on us all.

:joker::joker::joker:

Mercy, indeed.

[Livia]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Christianity was Hitler's main motivation for the majority of the things in his regime, he is what happens when a religious extremist so happens to wear a suit and lead a country.

I'm pretty sure that he was driven by the lust for power and the wish to build the Third Reich into a world-dominating regime. Being a "Christian", however perverse his ideology, doesn't necessarily mean that his crusade was a religious one, and I believe he was more driven by his own megalomania than by any religious doctrine. Germany being humiliated after WW1 and the ensuing depression were bigger driving factors in the rise of the Nazis than religion was.

But all that’s beside the point. Not all wars are fought on religious grounds, and yet people always say how many lives have been lost to religion. Atheists are just as violent as believers because human beings, with very few exceptions, are flawed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hitler and stalin could never be called religious however the trouble in the middle east is religious and USA do go into every conflict bookended by God Bless America

[Dollface]

I'm pretty sure that he was driven by the lust for power and the wish to build the Third Reich into a world-dominating regime. Being a "Christian", however perverse his ideology, doesn't necessarily mean that his crusade was a religious one, and I believe he was more driven by his own megalomania than by any religious doctrine. Germany being humiliated after WW1 and the ensuing depression were bigger driving factors in the rise of the Nazis than religion was.

But all that’s beside the point. Not all wars are fought on religious grounds, and yet people always say how many lives have been lost to religion. Atheists are just as violent as believers because human beings, with very few exceptions, are flawed.

:clap1:

[Marsh.]

Really?.. another religious debate? Have mercy on us all.

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker:

no morsh

its

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Marsh.]

no morsh

its

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I'm not clapping you no matter how much you beg. :smug:

[Dollface]

As for ghosts, i believe in them yes. Not sure i believe in psychic powers and mediums though, they prey on the vulnerable, which isn't fair.

[Kizzy]

It would be interesting to know how many wars have had nothing to do with religion, the ones that spring to mind all have a group with a dogmatic fanatical obsession with eradicating by fair means or foul members of a differing religion to them.

[Creggle]

I'm pretty sure that he was driven by the lust for power and the wish to build the Third Reich into a world-dominating regime. Being a "Christian", however perverse his ideology, doesn't necessarily mean that his crusade was a religious one, and I believe he was more driven by his own megalomania than by any religious doctrine. Germany being humiliated after WW1 and the ensuing depression were bigger driving factors in the rise of the Nazis than religion was.

But all that’s beside the point. Not all wars are fought on religious grounds, and yet people always say how many lives have been lost to religion. Atheists are just as violent as believers because human beings, with very few exceptions, are flawed.

Why did he want to dominate the world though, why did he want everyone to have blonde hair blue eyes etc. ? He could very well of gotten his agenda from something he misinterpreted from the bible, but he also might not of. It would be hard to say without him being questioned directly. That part is speculation, but the holocaust was due to religion, no ways around that, and that part is fact. Speculation + fact creates a decent case about his crusade being driven by religion.

You're right about atheists, people are just scumbags in general. Though how much less death would there of been without religion? I don't dislike religious people btw, just throwing that out there.

As for ghosts, i believe in them yes. Not sure i believe in psychic powers and mediums though, they prey on the vulnerable, which isn't fair.

'I'm seeing a door, yes a door, did your loved one live in a house with a door?'

'OMG YES! :sad:'

'Ok ok, good good. Now I'm visioning... Did his name start with a letter from the alphabet?'

'YES!!! It was T!!!'

'Yes, yes I saw the letter T, was it compromised of other letters from the alphabet?'

'YES IT WAS TERRANCE!'

'Yes yes, I have Terrance right here, he say's that he loves you very much'

'OMG! *throws money* HE IS REAL, THE MAN CAN TALK TO THE DEAD!'

[Kizzy]

The comment 'Atheists are as violent as believers' cannot be proven as there has never been a war where atheism was the driving force has there?
Historically before religion civilisations were very peaceable :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Looking at the Hitler thing - whether he was or was not a christian is by the way but the vast majority of Germans at that time were Christians

It did not stop or inhibit them doing what they did

so what use is it?

[Kizzy]

Looking at the Hitler thing - whether he was or was not a christian is by the way but the vast majority of Germans at that time were Christians

It did not stop or inhibit them doing what they did

so what use is it?

What use is what Christianity or religion in general?
At any given time as many people with spirituality and or faith are doing positive things to enhance the world as destructive.

[kirklancaster]

Why did he want to dominate the world though, why did he want everyone to have blonde hair blue eyes etc. ? He could very well of gotten his agenda from something he misinterpreted from the bible, but he also might not of. It would be hard to say without him being questioned directly. That part is speculation, but the holocaust was due to religion, no ways around that, and that part is fact. Speculation + fact creates a decent case about his crusade being driven by religion.


I love your open mind about things Creggle, and the way you put counter viewpoints across without any unwarranted aggression or hostility to the person whose opinion you are countering.

However, Cregg, the bible had nothing to do with Hitler’s crackpot doctrines, and were not where he derived his ‘agenda’ from. Hitler was not a ‘true’ Christian, but falsely embraced Christianity for two reasons:

First; In the knowledge that Christianity was the biggest religion out there, Hitler thought that if he ‘nailed his colours’ to the Christian’s ‘mast’ with any degree of conviction, then he was guaranteed a ready-made audience of hundreds of millions who were at once, both, receptive to his twisted ideologies, and also sympathetic to his demonic cause.

Secondly; Hitler was under the gross misapprehension that all Christians detested the Jews as much as he personally did, because – in his distorted, over-simplistic view - he believed that all Christians blamed the Jews for killing The Christ. The Roman Catholic Church at the time, actually had hidden sympathy with this demon so the ploy was successful to some degree.

If anyone doubts that Hitler – or indeed any Nazi party member – was not Christian, I refer them to the following:

“Rosenberg claimed that Christianity was an alien Semitic slave-morality inappropriate to the warrior Aryan master race and thus supported a melange of aspects of Hindu Vedic and Zoroastrian teachings (both of these religions having been organised by Aryans), along with pre-Christian European Odinistic paganism, which he also considered to be distinctively Aryan in character”

Further:

Hitler actually formulated the core of his warped ideas from a late 19th century book – ‘An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races’ - written by a French aristocrat called De Gobineau. De Gobineau developed the B.S. theory that the ‘Aryan’ race was the ‘Master’ race and was a founder of ‘Scientific Racism’.

However, as with every other ideology which that little turd Hitler borrowed from, he ‘selectively edited’ the ideas of De Gobineau to suit his own insane doctrines, because De Gobineau was not only not anti-Semitic, but he actually extensively praised the Jews in other works, describing them as a; “free, strong, and intelligent people".

Hitler conveniently ignored this admiration of the Jews when he filched and re-crafted most of the remainder of De Gobineau’s other contentions to suit his own demented purposes.

The Nazi ideal of ‘Blond hair and blue eyes’ – or ‘Aryan’ ideal - originated from De Gobineau’s works in part, but mainly from the works of Nazi theorists H. F. K. Günther and Alfred Rosenberg, whose ideas themselves were a result of these authors deliberately twisting and bastardising historical fact and lacing it with fantasy and myth to finally, and conveniently, arrive at their conclusions that the ‘Aryan’ race was ‘essentially’ Germanic.

The term ‘Aryan’ is a Sanskrit word which originates in India (hardly a blond haired blue eyed indigenous person to be found there) and also has Iranian connections. ‘Iran’ is actually the ancient Persian word for ‘Land of the Aryans’ (hardly a blond haired blue eyed indigenous person to be found here either).

So to get around the fact that the original ‘Aryans’ were dark-skinned non-Germanic people (both of which according to Nazi criterion were qualities which qualified a particular race to be placed at the bottom of the pile when it came to ‘worth’) these authors ‘dreamt up’ a convoluted B.S. hypothesis that these Indo Iranian people were actually – wait for it - originally from Atlantis, and these ‘Atlantians’ lived in prehistoric times on the ‘North German Plain’.

Apparently, they migrated from the North German Plain to Iran and India via the Ukraine – on chariots no less. (Wagnerian undertones - imagery of heroic blue-eyed Germanic warriors riding into battle, long blond tresses flowing et al?).

You could not make it up – yet look at the catastrophic consequences of the gullible cretins who were Nazi followers swallowing this propaganda crap.

Anyway, the Aryan Master race prototype was created from all this convoluted crap and this prototype was not just confined to blond hair and blue eyes, as this description of a ‘pure Aryan’ from a 1922 leaflet ‘The Nazi Race’, shows;

“The Aryan race is tall, long legged, slim. The race is narrow faced with a narrow forehead, a narrow high-built nose and a lower jaw and prominent chin, the skin is rosy bright and the blood shines through.... the hair is smooth straight or wavy - possibly curly in childhood. The colour is blond. “

It’s very noticeable how most of the raggle-taggle, moronic, misfits which comprised the Nazi hierarchy – notably Himmler and old Adolf himself - was the total antithesis of this ideal. But they got around this with yet more convoluted B.S. and contrived 'jiggery-pokery.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What use is what Christianity or religion in general?
At any given time as many people with spirituality and or faith are doing positive things to enhance the world as destructive.

In my experience Christians are religious for about an hour on a sunday and for the rest of the time they are themselves and the same as anyone else.

Its like scouts, being in the local drama club or being a rotarian.

Its a wee club like other wee clubs and probably why as a christian nation germany did what they did

[Livia]

In my experience Christians are religious for about an hour on a sunday and for the rest of the time they are themselves and the same as anyone else.

Its like scouts, being in the local drama club or being a rotarian.

Its a wee club like other wee clubs and probably why as a christian nation germany did what they did

Judge not lest ye be judged.

[kirklancaster]

'I'm seeing a door, yes a door, did your loved one live in a house with a door?'

'OMG YES! :sad:'

'Ok ok, good good. Now I'm visioning... Did his name start with a letter from the alphabet?'

'YES!!! It was T!!!'

'Yes, yes I saw the letter T, was it compromised of other letters from the alphabet?'

'YES IT WAS TERRANCE!'

'Yes yes, I have Terrance right here, he say's that he loves you very much'

'OMG! *throws money* HE IS REAL, THE MAN CAN TALK TO THE DEAD!'

You are absolutely right with this Creggle, I despise all fake 'mediums' because their proliferation detracts from the fact that genuine examples of 'Extra Sensory Perception' and 'Clairvoyance' do exist.

I know from my own experiences that this is a reality, and I'm sure that there are a lot of people on here who have had similar experiences.

Sometimes, I have 'sensed' my mother or father - both of whom have passed. At times this 'perception' has been feint, fleeting, nothing more than an unaccountable feeling. and at other times, it has been so strong, that the smell of my mother's favourite perfume or my father's tobacco pervades the entire room if not every room in the house.

Think about this; part of a deceased parent's 'physical being' lives on in you as part of your genetic inheritance from them, and part of their cerebral existence lives on in you via the thought processes and ideas which you absorbed from them her while you were growing up under their loving guidance.

In light of the earlier post on 'residual' energy (thank you Josey) isn't it plausible then, that a spirit will return to that very place where he/she lived? Isn't it yet more plausible that he/she will revisit the very person who still retains so much of their living physical and cerebral essence?

I know my parents have re-visited me because of my own personal experiences, and I actually talk to my parents whenever I perceive their presence. These experiences always end in a 'feeling' of calmness and tranquility which overtakes me despite any previous mood I was in prior.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Judge not lest ye be judged.

I am happy with that deal


but I wish it was applied more to Louis on X-factor

[Livia]

I am happy with that deal


but I wish it was applied more to Louis on X-factor

Or Cheryl... sit and judge people on their singing... then get up and mime. She's probably going to hell.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Or Cheryl... sit and judge people on their singing... then get up and mime. She's probably going to hell.

and be arsey about it on twitter..:joker:

[Livia]

and be arsey about it on twitter..:joker:

Was she? LOL... She is a very pretty girl. That's all she's got though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would be very interested to hear about real mediums....


I think i knew one called...John....or Tom...or Bill or was it Phil


Jim.......B something.....S something??

[Niamh.]

Leave Louis out of this LT :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Was she? LOL... She is a very pretty girl. That's all she's got though.

Yup

Lovely tits and a good smile will get you quite far in media


Especially if you are a woman

[Crimson Dynamo]

Leave Louis out of this LT :fist:

He reminds me of a young Lenny Henry

[Niamh.]

Yup

Lovely tits and a good smile will get you quite far in media


Especially if you are a woman

:think:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnjdT6CRpmUf8VQYQ2RnjfrrRupz3_S mf3FMz73wVaTLYGuZCv

[Livia]

:think:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnjdT6CRpmUf8VQYQ2RnjfrrRupz3_S mf3FMz73wVaTLYGuZCv

Waaaaaaaaahahaha....

[Crimson Dynamo]

:think:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnjdT6CRpmUf8VQYQ2RnjfrrRupz3_S mf3FMz73wVaTLYGuZCv

:laugh2:

[Marsh.]

In my experience

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker:

I used to be the editor of a parish magazine you filthy doubting Thomas

:hmph:


I know my way round a flower rota..

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-the-best-scientific-explanation-for-the-presence-of-ghosts-2014-11

Scientists have now discovered why some folks "think" they feel ghosts or spirits