John Bird Attacks Ed Miliband over his giving money to beggars

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/05/1415145655920_wps_54_MANCHESTER_ENGLAND_OCTOBE.jpg
Ed having to play up to Cameras
the Fool.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/05/1415145635866_wps_52_John_Bird_co_founder_of_T.jpg
John Bird was on the BBC2 Daily Politics
and ITV1London .

[Giving money to beggars isn't kindness, Ed, it's cruelty. And I should know, I used to be one, says founder of the Big Issue John Bird

John Bird co-founder the Big Issue in 1991 after being a beggar himself
Says that Ed Miliband should never have gave money to beggar last week
Explains that giving to beggars is not an act of kindness but one of cruelty
Adds that it does nothing to alleviate the plight of the recipient]


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2821189/Giving-money-beggars-isn-t-kindness-Ed-s-cruelty-know-used-one-says-founder-Big-Issue-JOHN-BIRD.html#ixzz3IDgDp1Cr

[Shaun]

What does this guy want - for Miliband to buy her a flat?

[arista]

What does this guy want - for Miliband to buy her a flat?



No John is Right


The begger is only 14
and has a home
its a Scam


Ref: BBC2 Daily Politics Today

[Crimson Dynamo]

he should have said to her: Why are you not at school, why are you sitting down and where do you live? But the twit gave her money

And he wants to be PM?

Gods teeth

[Livia]

He's never one to miss a photo opportunity, he's worse than Cameron for that, and who thought that would be possible? I'm shocked he's not wearing his feminist teeshirt, kill two birds with one stone.

[kirklancaster]

He's never one to miss a photo opportunity, he's worse than Cameron for that, and who thought that would be possible? I'm shocked he's not wearing his feminist teeshirt, kill two birds with one stone.

Pun intentional?

[arista]

he should have said to her: Why are you not at school, why are you sitting down and where do you live? But the twit gave her money

And he wants to be PM?

Gods teeth


Bang On Right LT

[Livia]

Pun intentional?

Oh! LOL no - happy accident.

[kirklancaster]

Oh! LOL no - happy accident.

:joker:

[joeysteele]

I find John Bird annoying, actually big issue sellers are murder for pushing the mag in your face almost trying to sell them.
I do however buy it off them and often get the scam too of, this is my last one with the indication of hoping I will say keep it so they can sell it again.

However, like Ed Miliband,I still always give money to people sitting in the streets, not a lot of money obviously but I will not walk past on the other side with my nose in the air.
It may not help them but the main issue for me is that anyone genuine in being on the streets is a scandal as to whatever govt. is in power at the time and I see more and more people on the streets under this coalition govt. than I ever saw in the last 4 years of the last one.

Slamming Ed Miliband for photo opportunism for putting perhaps a 50p piece in a cup is rather unfortunate.
Cameron would have said he will bring something for her tomorrow,or the next day or even the next week but never get around to actually doing so.

[arista]

I find John Bird annoying, actually big issue sellers are murder for pushing the mag in your face almost trying to sell them.
I do however buy it off them and often get the scam too of, this is my last one with the indication of hoping I will say keep it so they can sell it again.

However, like Ed Miliband,I still always give money to people sitting in the streets, not a lot of money obviously but I will not walk past on the other side with my nose in the air.
It may not help them but the main issue for me is that anyone genuine in being on the streets is a scandal as to whatever govt. is in power at the time and I see more and more people on the streets under this coalition govt. than I ever saw in the last 4 years of the last one.

Slamming Ed Miliband for photo opportunism for putting perhaps a 50p piece in a cup is rather unfortunate.
Cameron would have said he will bring something for her tomorrow,or the next day or even the next week but never get around to actually doing so.



Joey it was a Fecking Scam
Do you Not Get that?

Ref: Daily Politics BBC2 Today

[Crimson Dynamo]

too many people giving money to pro beggars like this Romanian who should be sent back to her own country and forced to go to school

smh

[Kizzy]

And if he hadn't? the headline ' Milliband ignores homeless child!' :/

[user104658]

Whilst I think the picture is nonsense, I have to say of Mr Big Issue... What a hypocrite. We all know that selling the big issue is legitimised begging, and thinly veiled at that. Giving someone a pound out of sympathy for the privilege of throwing a rag in the nearest bin. I don't know why the charade carries on... They should just stand with a cup and reel off a few of the day's headlines to anyone who gives them a quid. Would save paper, at least.

[joeysteele]

And if he hadn't? the headline ' Milliband ignores homeless child!' :/

Absolutely and scam or not, I would have actually thought less of him had he done that,just walked by ignoring totally someone sitting there.
The press would have had a field day, presenting him as this hypocrite who goes on about the poor but would totally ignore someone apparantly who could have been homeless.

It was said he had only put 2p in as well but it turns out it was a fair bit more than 2p.

Had Cameron or his wife Sam, (who will have plenty of homeless to get more photo shots of her at, during the 2015 campaign than she did in the 2010 one now,thanks to her husband's policies.),put something in a cup in the same scenario,the headlines would have likely been.
'Cameron/s show they really care'.

I would have done exactly the same as Ed Miliband did, scam or not, I'd rather not just stick my head in the air and march on ignoring people who may be in some need or genuinely on the streets.

Also as ToySoldier says, the big issue is also a form of 'legitimised begging'anyway and as I said I often get one almost rammed in my face as they try to sell it.
These people sitting in the street as you pass, rarely say a word at all,I have found.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And if he hadn't? the headline ' Milliband ignores homeless child!' :/

perhaps in the mirror or guardian but it would have given him an opportunity to say that she was not a beggar she was a schoolgirl from Romania who should have been back home studying and then he could have made the distinction between good and bad immigration and scored some good political points

[arista]

And if he hadn't? the headline ' Milliband ignores homeless child!' :/



"No ignores scam child"



She has a home
ref : BBC Daily Politics 5/11/14

[joeysteele]

"No ignores scam child"



She has a home
ref : BBC Daily Politics 5/11/14

He did not know that at the time arista, that is the whole point.

[Crimson Dynamo]

He did not know that at the time arista, that is the whole point.

she looked 14 and she looked like a Romanian scam beggar


what is he not seeing that we all can?

[smudgie]

Never give to beggars in the day time, most are scammers.
Looked more like rewarding someone for paying truant, get the beggars off the street and into school.

[Nedusa]

What a sad useless pathetic figure Ed Miliband is, unable to just be a strong leader he instead worries more about , how he is perceived by the press . He is acutely aware of all photo opportunities good or bad and is more preoccupied with his image than his actual job of possibly running the Country.

The Man is not up to this job , never was, never will be. Does not have that X factor needed to hold the top job .

Labour know this but time is against them and they cannot see how they can drop him so soon to an election.

UKIP will steal plenty of seats from the Tories but they will take seats from Labour also as voters are furious with this bumbling shambolic excuse for a Labour Leader.



.

[Amy Jade]

He was just being nice.

[Kizzy]

Why is it important to raise the issue of homelessnes?... Because it is an important contemporary issue.

'Rising homelessness shows the damage caused by welfare cuts
Homelessness has now risen by 34% since 2010, with measures including the benefit cap and the bedroom tax blamed by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and Crisis.'

'In 2013 the UK economy finally began to show signs of recovery, but as we have argued in previous Monitors, policy factors have a more direct bearing on levels of
homelessness than the recession in and of itself. Most key informants interviewed in
2013 expect a new surge in homelessness associated with the ramping up of welfare
reform, particularly the social sector bedroom limits and the introduction of Universal Credit. At the same time, housing market pressures seem unlikely to ease, particularly in London and the South. A range of specialist homelessness funding programmes intended to ameliorate the impact of these negative structural trends on particularly vulnerable groups are also due to end in 2014. It therefore seems that, as in 2010, we may soon be facing another critical juncture in homelessness trends in England.'

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/12/rising-homelessness-shows-damage-caused-welfare-cuts
http://www.crisis.org.uk/data/files/admin_uploads/research/HomelessnessMonitorEngland2013_ExecSummary.pdf

[joeysteele]

she looked 14 and she looked like a Romanian scam beggar


what is he not seeing that we all can?

Does she look 14?
I myself am useless at guessing or estimating peoples ages,to me she looks a possible young homeless person.
I certainly would not thave thought this a scam on the face of that passing glance and moment.
Many times I have thought someone was younger than they were and vice versa older than they were.

This was a passing glance and split second event, also if all he wanted was a photo opportunity, he could have engaged in deeper conversation with her and certainly handed more money out too.
That would have got even more headlines, but he didn't.

It is easy to criticise and pick at someone people don't like for anything and in fact near everything they say and do they do but that doesn't actually make all the criticism fair, valid or right.
That is something I am at times guilty of too as to many members of the present govt. and likely too as to Nick Clegg.

[arista]

He did not know that at the time arista, that is the whole point.


Thats his Bad Luck

[joeysteele]

Thats his Bad Luck

Well it would be anyones bad luck arista,mine too had I come across it.
At least he responded with a bit of compassion,however misguided it may have been with 'hindsight', and no matter how being in any way compassionate comes about, it is something I admire and applaud as to people.

[Kizzy]

Well it would be anyones bad luck arista,mine too had I come across it.
At least he responded with a bit of compassion,however misguided it may have been with 'hindsight', and no matter how being in any way compassionate comes about, it is something I admire and applaud as to people.

Well said, it seems it would have been more acceptable if he'd kicked dirt in her eye :shrug:

[joeysteele]

Well said, it seems it would have been more acceptable if he'd kicked dirt in her eye :shrug:

It seems that way Kizzy.
It is not and never will be my way to ignore anyone I 'think' may be in need,no matter how small I may be able to help.

[Kizzy]

It seems that way Kizzy.
It is not and never will be my way to ignore anyone I 'think' may be in need,no matter how small I may be able to help.

You are a good man joey, and they're in short supply :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

It seems that way Kizzy.
It is not and never will be my way to ignore anyone I 'think' may be in need,no matter how small I may be able to help.

If you live in a city I would be amazed if you ever reach the supermarket before it shuts...

[Kizzy]

If you live in a city I would be amazed if you ever reach the supermarket before it shuts...

I heard boris is investing in flamethrowers so you'll be fine :idc:

[joeysteele]

If you live in a city I would be amazed if you ever reach the supermarket before it shuts...

I live outside a city but have a supermarket near,however whenever I am in a city, I always take the time to acknowledge people and if I see anyone I feel needs help or assistance then I will give them it,if I can.

Dropping a few coins into a hat or cup or whatever doesn't even need to change any speed at all that I would need to get where I was going.
If I have more time, I will talk to people who it appears most in the city just walk past as if they are invisible.

I believe all human beings who have done nothing wrong and especially those who are in need or homeless for whatever reasons, still should have dignity as human beings and I respect that dignity.

I consider myself a very fortunate person in life and I would far rather build others up than bring them down or leave them when they are down.
That is just how I am I guess.

I also love to talk to people and hear their take on life and issues and I have had some of my best ever conversations with and indeed often learned more too from those who a lot in society brand as down and outs and worthless.

[arista]

On Ed the more people see him
the more Hate him


Ref : Daily Politics Today BBC2

[Crimson Dynamo]

On Ed the more people see him
the more Hate him


Ref : Daily Politics Today BBC2

Just reported on the 2pm news that senior labour mps are calling for his head


had to happen

[arista]

Just reported on the 2pm news that senior labour mps are calling for his head


had to happen


Yes SkyNewsHD reported
no one is standing up to take his place
thats the problem

[Crimson Dynamo]

I live outside a city but have a supermarket near,however whenever I am in a city, I always take the time to acknowledge people and if I see anyone I feel needs help or assistance then I will give them it,if I can.

Dropping a few coins into a hat or cup or whatever doesn't even need to change any speed at all that I would need to get where I was going.
If I have more time, I will talk to people who it appears most in the city just walk past as if they are invisible.

I believe all human beings who have done nothing wrong and especially those who are in need or homeless for whatever reasons, still should have dignity as human beings and I respect that dignity.

I consider myself a very fortunate person in life and I would far rather build others up than bring them down or leave them when they are down.
That is just how I am I guess.

I also love to talk to people and hear their take on life and issues and I have had some of my best ever conversations with and indeed often learned more too from those who a lot in society brand as down and outs and worthless.

Yes very good joey but that does not get a 14 year old girl back to her own country and in school, not does it solve the reason why the total feck is she here sitting on her arse begging in the first place.

i am sure she is a lovely wee girl but we are doing her no favours giving her money

[Northern Monkey]

Well imo.Milliband does'nt give a crap about the begger and obvs did it for the photo op and public image and this Bird fella is probably just a Tory supporter who saw a chance to get one over Milliband.All politics,Both pathetic and not a 'big issue'...

[kirklancaster]

Well imo.Milliband does'nt give a crap about the begger and obvs did it for the photo op and public image and this Bird fella is probably just a Tory supporter who saw a chance to get one over Milliband.All politics,Both pathetic and not a 'big issue'...

Well true and brilliant pun to boot.:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:

[JoshBB]

LOOOL the right-wingers on here are desperate and it's pathetic.

[Crimson Dynamo]

LOOOL the right-wingers on here are desperate and it's pathetic.

calling any forum member desperate and pathetic is against forum rules and can lead to a ban if reported to a mod

so comment on the subject young man :nono:

[joeysteele]

The cowardly MPs,who moan at their leader but don;t have the support necessary to trigger a leadership contest make me mad.
There are many in the Conservative party too who would love to see the back of David Cameron too and even more in the Lib Dems dying for clegg to go.

[Livia]

LOOOL the right-wingers on here are desperate and it's pathetic.

LOOOOL at you making comments about other forum members, which is against the rules.

[Kizzy]

To be fair there have been comments before about looney lefties so it's swings and roundabouts, why is nobody asking why there are so many homeless and looking at the causes of this... :conf:
As highlighted in my last post homelessness has risen by a third since 2010, why is this not the focus when looking at this issue?

[Northern Monkey]

Well true and brilliant pun to boot.:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:
:thumbs:

[arista]

LOOOL the right-wingers on here are desperate and it's pathetic.



I am not Right Wing
I am all over the place

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be fair there have been comments before about looney lefties so it's swings and roundabouts, why is nobody asking why there are so many homeless and looking at the causes of this... :conf:
As highlighted in my last post homelessness has risen by a third since 2010, why is this not the focus when looking at this issue?

Its hardly a vote winner so it will not be a feature of the election

[Kizzy]

Its hardly a vote winner so it will not be a feature of the election

I think you'll find it is, the spare room subsidy abolition is one of Labours key policies .

[kirklancaster]

LOOOL the right-wingers on here are desperate and it's pathetic.

Not me. I've been a no-winger since I learn't that there is not one iota of real difference between all politicians despite what banner they march under. The only two politicians of any genuine integrity in my opinion, have been Tony Benn on the left and Enoch Powell on the right - both were extremists whose crackpot lack of moderation clouded the fact that both spoke a hell of a lot of sense and both meant what they spouted.

Eyeball Paul is absolutely right here - in my opinion - a 'kissing baby' type photo opportunity for one and a political point scoring opportunity for the other.

This has absolutely nothing to do with whether giving alms to beggars is right or not, it is merely questioning the real motives of Miliband in doing so, and Bird for criticising him for doing so.

I donate to charities from my bank by Standing Order, and also directly on the street - when I feel the recipient is genuine. I will admit though, that I am a 'Charity Begins At Home' man, and support St Dunstan's, Macmillan's, Cancer Research Uk, and the NSPCC and RSPCA, first, with most street beggars far down my list of needy causes - no matter what colour, Nationality, Creed or sex they may be.

I have seen too many 'street beggars' running to the nearest bookies, off licence, or street drug dealers with their collected donations to worry what anyone thinks of my stance.

I have also watched quite a few valid documentaries where certain big-city 'street beggars' have toddled off to their strategically parked BMW or Mercedes with their day's takings, then driven back to their own quite desirable private residences.

If this attitude makes me a selfish FK Head - then so be it, but a desperate 'right winger' FK Head? Never sah. :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think you'll find it is, the spare room subsidy abolition is one of Labours key policies .

that is not the same as dealing with homeless people, and homeless people I am not sure even exist as an entity as there are so many categories of why someone appreas to bbe homless..drugs, mental state, drink, rows at home, care stsyem etc

[joeysteele]

To be fair there have been comments before about looney lefties so it's swings and roundabouts, why is nobody asking why there are so many homeless and looking at the causes of this... :conf:
As highlighted in my last post homelessness has risen by a third since 2010, why is this not the focus when looking at this issue?

Yes, when David Cameron was up against it there were comments like wait until until the left brigade come on,indicating anyone from the left are likely to have a ridicuolous view.

The point is, at the time this short event took place when Ed Miliband or anyone else for that matter gave this girl a few coins, it was 'not',I stress 'not,' known she was only 14, not genuinely homeless so that argument is not appropriate in my view.
That knowledge has only come with hindsight and investigation.

I would have given her some coins,had I passed her for one,I said earlier that I see more people who appear to be homeless now than I ever did 4 years ago.
Charities, the CAB and welfare groups are all saying homelessness has risen and in part hold this govts. policies as partly responsible for that.
I really hope it is an issue at the forefront of the election campaign because it is a matter of shame for the UK and its govt. of the time.

Sadly the media will brush it aside in the main, preferring to concentrate on where UKIP are in the polls and analysing the polls day by day.

Ed Miliband is not a popular leader, none of the 3 main party leaders are but it sure gets some annoyed when he does anything that highlights the real shame as to this rotten govts. policies.

I was myself on the right of politics when I first came on here.
From all I have seen and witnessed personally, I can say assuredly that for as long as the right is represented by govts and politicians such as make up this govt, then I want no part of the right again.
I am 100% now happy to be called a leftie,even a loony leftie at that,I am just sorry if caring about people means wey are all loony left individuals with invalid opinions.

I believe in walking alongside people,those who are well up and those who are right at the bottom equally.
I will never believe in trampling on people and treating them as if they don't exist.
Or for that matter, (with being so fortunate myself), that I would ever walk past someone 'possibly' in need as if they were invisible.

[Kizzy]

that is not the same as dealing with homeless people, and homeless people I am not sure even exist as an entity as there are so many categories of why someone appreas to bbe homless..drugs, mental state, drink, rows at home, care stsyem etc

Homelessness does not exist?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Homelessness does not exist?

no, the generic term homeless person for any beggar on the street sitting on the ground with a blanket and a cup

[joeysteele]

Homelessness does not exist?

I share you exasperation Kizzy, it is far worse now than 4 years ago.

Now,it is not just the Govt. that should be doing more as to the homeless,I would agree with anyone as to that.
The Churches have a duty too, they spout off on the homeless every service they hold, then lock the doors of their fancy Churches which are warm and dry while leaving those homeless outside in all weathers,never bothering as to going around and seeing if they have basic food at least in the main.

It isn't a votewinner,the issue of homelessnes as LT said,however the thing the issue of homelessness should be for whatever govt. is in power at the time is a massive vote loser.
Those sitting on the street with a blanket,many are homeless, they may reside in a hostel at night but through the day have nothing at all and are effectively homeless with no permanent address.

[arista]

Homelessness does not exist?


Of course it does.


But the Girl of 14 on this thread
has a home

It was another Scam

[Creggle]

He only did this to look good, or does he walk around with a guy who has a camera 24/7 for no apparent reason? Blatant set up, doesn't even attempt to hide it.

[joeysteele]

He only did this to look good, or does he walk around with a guy who has a camera 24/7 for no apparent reason? Blatant set up, doesn't even attempt to hide it.

With respect there are always cameras wherever leading politicians of all parties go.

He didn't tell them to take the pictures,just as Cameron didn't when that guy ran into him.

[arista]

I share you exasperation Kizzy, it is far worse now than 4 years ago.

Now,it is not just the Govt. that should be doing more as to the homeless,I would agree with anyone as to that.
The Churches have a duty too, they spout off on the homeless every service they hold, then lock the doors of their fancy Churches which are warm and dry while leaving those homeless outside in all weathers,never bothering as to going around and seeing if they have basic food at least in the main.

It isn't a votewinner,the issue of homelessnes as LT said,however the thing the issue of homelessness should be for whatever govt. is in power at the time is a massive vote loser.



Sure Joey
times are hard for some.

But not as hard as Africa



Yes Convert Every Church into Bunk bed dorms

[arista]

He only did this to look good, or does he walk around with a guy who has a camera 24/7 for no apparent reason? Blatant set up, doesn't even attempt to hide it.


Bang On Right

[Livia]

There was homelessness under Labour previously. There will be homelessness under Labour in the future.

[joeysteele]

Sure Joey
times are hard for some.

But not as hard as Africa



Yes Convert Every Church into Bunk bed dorms

Oh really arista, for goodness sake, we are not Africa, we are one of the richest Nations of the world.
Times should not be hard for anyone in the UK,it is govts. who when in power always fail those who should be protected and built up.

[arista]

Oh really arista, for goodness sake, we are not Africa, we are one of the richest Nations of the world.
Times should not be hard for anyone in the UK,it is govts. who when in power always fail those who should be protected and built up.


Yes Joey We Built The World
and Owned America
I wish I had a Time Machine

[Creggle]

With respect there are always cameras wherever leading politicians of all parties go.

He didn't tell them to take the pictures,just as Cameron didn't when that guy ran into him.

He could of told them not to take it, a picture like this will only do more harm than good, he'll look like a pretentious dimwit and his supporters will look naive whenever he's bought up and they say things like 'he gives money to the homeless :lovedup:'.

Yes Joey We Built The World
and Owned America
I wish I had a Time Machine

Yep, bigger than the Roman empire yet what did we do? Gave it all back. :cheer2:

[joeysteele]

There was homelessness under Labour previously. There will be homelessness under Labour in the future.

With the fullest respect as always,not as much as it has risen in these last 4 years,which I have sought out and seen and helped with from my own wish to do so.

Talking to welfare groups,the CAB and charities, they all say homelessness has risen faster in the last 4 years and the Govt. has been told endlessly of that.
They do nothing,except pay lip service to the issue.

Homelessness should,in my view, never be right or for that matter acceptable to rise under any Govt.
It should be the policy to find a solution with compassion as to it.

[joeysteele]

He could of told them not to take it, a picture like this will only do more harm than good, he'll look like a pretentious dimwit and his supporters will look naive whenever he's bought up and they say things like 'he gives money to the homeless :lovedup:'.



Yep, bigger than the Roman empire yet what did we do? Gave it all back. :cheer2:

Tell a cameraman not to take a picture, that would make them all the more likely to do so.

Then he would have been derided for saying don't take a picture, for drawing more attention to the incident.

[Livia]

With the fullest respect as always,not as much as it has risen in these last 4 years,which I have sought out and seen and helped with from my own wish to do so.

Talking to welfare groups,the CAB and charities, they all say homelessness has risen faster in the last 4 years and the Govt. has been told endlessly of that.
They do nothing,except pay lip service to the issue.

Homelessness should,in my view, never be right or for that matter acceptable under any Govt.

And with respect back, Joey... If Ed Miliband really wants to do something, he needs to come up with a plan for getting young people, ex-military personnel, people with mental health problems off the streets and into jobs and homes. Instead he's captured by the press cynically putting money into the cup of a women who's come to this country probably specifically to beg. John Bird knows more about homelessness than I do and I defer to his summing up of Miliband's latest bit of ridiculousness. If the Tories, or indeed UKIP, get in at the next General Election it will be because Labour are being led by an donkey with no credence at all.

[joeysteele]

And with respect back, Joey... If Ed Miliband really wants to do something, he needs to come up with a plan for getting young people, ex-military personnel, people with mental health problems off the streets and into jobs and homes. Instead he's captured by the press cynically putting money into the cup of a women who's come to this country probably specifically to beg. John Bird knows more about homelessness than I do and I defer to his summing up of Miliband's latest bit of ridiculousness. If the Tories, or indeed UKIP, get in at the next General Election it will be because Labour are being led by an donkey with no credence at all.



With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

[Kizzy]

Thus in 2012 rough sleeping in England rose 6%, as compared with 23% in 2011. In London, there was a rise of 13% in recorded rough sleeping in 2012/13,pushing the two year increase to over 60%. There are growing numbers of both UK and overseas nationals sleeping rough in the capital. After falling sharply for six years, the number of statutory homelessness acceptances has risen substantially (by 34%) over the past
three years, but the increase in 2012/13 (at 6%) is lower than the previous year (14%).
There is marked regional divergence, with the growth in statutory homelessness strongly concentrated in London and the South.


And what will the asses responsible for dreaming this do when 1000s of under 25 flood the streets?

'Homeless young people have hit out against the Conservatives plans to cut housing benefit for the 18-21s, saying it would force vulnerable young people onto the streets and unsafe environments.'

http://www.centrepoint.org.uk/news-events/news/2014/october/benefit-cuts-hit-vulnerable-young-people

[Livia]

[/B]

With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

Considering some of the things that have been said about the Tories (although not by you, I hasten to add), it was quite mild.

[Kizzy]

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

[kirklancaster]

Oh really arista, for goodness sake, we are not Africa, we are one of the richest Nations of the world.
Times should not be hard for anyone in the UK,it is govts. who when in power always fail those who should be protected and built up.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

ed gave money to a schoolgirl

he is the reason why beggars exist

he is a disgrace:nono:

[Livia]

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

I was justifying a quote I made to joeysteele. No one was suggesting it's tit for tat, I was making the point that insulting politicians is not a way street.

Taking advantage of a cheap photo opportunity doesn't make Ed the saviour of the homeless, it makes a cynical opportunist. But then, I could never respect a man who shafted his own brother to get his job. Labour have to choose another leader if they've got any hope of doing well at the General Election. Right now he's the best weapon in the Tory arsenal and they're hoping against hope he's still the Labour leader next May.

[joeysteele]

Considering some of the things that have been said about the Tories (although not by you, I hasten to add), it was quite mild.

:joker:I was just surprised it came from you my great friend, I admire your posting on here and always will.
Usually when you and I respond to each others posts we always do so in context and I also hope in fairness as much as possible.
So I got a little shock when I read that response.

Even for me, Ed Miliband would not have been my choice of Labour leader from all the candidates there were and there were indeed a good few of them too to choose from.
However he got elected and I respect that but I also don't think he has made really any more gaffes than the other party leaders and so doesn't,just my opinion, warrant such personal abuse.
It is just his gaffes are front page news, while the others are mostly bypassed.

Quite frankly I now haven't a clue as to the 2015 election, for me it will likely be dominated sadly and tediously by where UKIP are in the polls every day that a poll is released.
I almost despair for the political process really at this time but I do still believe that despite Ed Miliband's current awkward position,Labour will be the largest party by a good number too.

I then hope he will do the things he has so far promised, to repeal as much of the NHS reforms as is possible, to get rid of the bedroom tax,to set in place an energy price rise freeze and to continue welfare reforms but adding compassion and sensitivity to the process,especially to those disabled and most vulnerable.

Then I would hope he will do whatever can be done to eradicate as much as possible the homeless on the streets.
In all cities, buildings are empty all over the place, surely rather than be left to decay and stand empty, these buildings could be put to some good use, even temporarily.
That would be a start and I think more is likely to be done by Miliband for all vulnerable people if he got power than will ever be done from either of the parties in this coalition Govt.

[Nedusa]

[/B]

With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

Win power...... Are you kidding ??

This Man is a Dead Party leader walking, the knives are out and the whispering campaign has started.

It is no secret now that most Labour Grandees and an increasing number of Labour MP's consider Miliband a total liability who surely only deliver failure at the next election.

So in my mind he is already gone, decision has made and now it's just a case of how to replace him without damaging the Party any further.

I think now we will see the whispering campaign gaining momentum in the Press until calls for his resignation become unstoppable .

Bye Bye Mr Miliband .....

[arista]

Win power...... Are you kidding ??

This Man is a Dead Party leader walking, the knives are out and the whispering campaign has started.

It is no secret now that most Labour Grandees and an increasing number of Labour MP's consider Miliband a total liability who surely only deliver failure at the next election.

So in my mind he is already gone, decision has made and now it's just a case of how to replace him without damaging the Party any further.

I think now we will see the whispering campaign gaining momentum in the Press until calls for his resignation become unstoppable .

Bye Bye Mr Miliband .....


http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9162787.ece/alternates/w620/p10milibandREUTERS.jpg

[kirklancaster]

I was justifying a quote I made to joeysteele. No one was suggesting it's tit for tat, I was making the point that insulting politicians is not a way street.

Taking advantage of a cheap photo opportunity doesn't make Ed the saviour of the homeless, it makes a cynical opportunist. But then, I could never respect a man who shafted his own brother to get his job. Labour have to choose another leader if they've got any hope of doing well at the General Election. Right now he's the best weapon in the Tory arsenal and they're hoping against hope he's still the Labour leader next May.

He is very 'grey' a la John Major. Where are all the dynamic politicians?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://cfrankdavis.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/nigel-farage-at-stony-stratford.jpg



Nigel Farage just been asked if he would have given money to 14 year old beggar and he said no. Asked if he ever gives money to beggars he said no.

He said that so many of the street beggars in London are organised by gangs and that he agrees with John Bird that giving money to beggars eeven if by chance they are genuine is keeping them down, not helping them up.

Nigel saying it straight and speaking for the people

:clap1:

[joeysteele]

Actually John Bird has put more people on the streets selling the big issue, day after day, some often just selling barely a few of them too,since you can in some cities find them all the way down the strrets and at every turn too.

I really cannot see where it is a major help to the homeless either really.

I actually find more people moan when they seea big issue seller than they do someone sitting on the pavement saying nothing really.
What likely irritates people about those sitting on the pavement is that their consciences may hit them.
I agree some people feel uncomfortable seeing and passing such individuals,some people can just walk on regardless,not bothered at all at them being there, then you get others,who actually ring the Police to see if they can be moved on.

As I said,I do buy the big issue from various sellers,however even when you have it in your hand, other big issue sellers are moving closert o you shoving their copies in front of you.

John Bird has not got the answer,the big issue is not the way to eradicate people homeless on the streets, it needs to be worked out with the charities who know where the homeless are and also what needs they have.
The problem is, no votes are seen to be got from the homeless so politicians ignore the problem largely.

Charities will be starting soon for Christmas in its help for those homeless,what an eye opener it is to be involved with causes like that and get to see and talk with those who are vulnerable and homeless.
Not shove them on the streets in all weathers freezing, raining, snowing for near all day selling a paper/mag.

In the city I am near, I was in it 3 days ago and across 4 streets of it were no less than 12 big issue sellers.
Know what, the thing I am most thankful of is that I am not homeless and would have topossibly live like that for any part of everyday.
However,I will never ignore and turn my back on them.Seeing how much I could do to help both financially and physically rather than judge and condemn.

[joeysteele]

Win power...... Are you kidding ??

This Man is a Dead Party leader walking, the knives are out and the whispering campaign has started.

It is no secret now that most Labour Grandees and an increasing number of Labour MP's consider Miliband a total liability who surely only deliver failure at the next election.

So in my mind he is already gone, decision has made and now it's just a case of how to replace him without damaging the Party any further.

I think now we will see the whispering campaign gaining momentum in the Press until calls for his resignation become unstoppable .

Bye Bye Mr Miliband .....

Nedusa, usually I love your posts but I have to say, who is going to get into power then, the Conservatives again.Ehat you say will not come about as the process of electing and choosing a new Labour leader takes ages.
No way 6 months before the election would that even be a sensible thing to do.
What would pelase those Labour grumblers is Ed Miliband offering an EU referendum too.
Were he to do that, he would get less backbench grumblings from a 'few' Labour MPs.
I am actually surprised he won't do that,I am not bothered as I don't want one anyway.

Really there is only 2 parties that can win the 2015 election,I doubt either will probably get an overall majority but it is so, that the Conservatives can be 3% ahead of Labour and still not be the largest party.

They can both be on 30% each and Labour will still be the largest party. Whatever happens in Scotland,the SNP would never support a Conservative govt and certainly never with any of UKIPs ideas.
The SNP are a pro EU party too.

I fear that actually leaves Cameron more dead in the water than Labour.
Also there are the leaders debates, David Cameron performed badly in those last time and then didn't get an overall majority, Gordon Brown was lost in them from the start really.

Ed Miliband is a diferent performer and he ,I have the feeling, could impress a lot in such debates over Cameron and Clegg's record.
Also, Nigel Farage,he will impress in any debate he is part of, and although I genuinely think he intensely dislikes all the 3 main party leaders equally, I get the feeling he has just a little more respect for Ed Miliband.

I actually think Nigel Farage would love the scenario of a Labour largest party result where UKIP had picked up enough seats simply to say,give a referendum on the EU and UKIP will not vote against your programme.
I also believe since he says regularly, that he doesn't trust Cameron or believe a single word he says, that he would trust Ed Miliband to deliver such a referendum in the light of a hung parliament for that support.

No leader is far and away a popular one at present, however the Labour party is on equal terms or slightly more preferred as a party to the Conservatives in all polling.
If things stay that way as they even are now, even with the problems for Labour in Scotland,it will be labour who win by far the most seats and who will be part of, if not the, next Government,despite their leader.

Really the Conservatives would also be likely doing much better with another leader too, in fact all 3 main parties need a new leader.
None will come now before the election and there are 2 who will be seen as having failed the UK in Govt. namely Cameron and Clegg, and one that so far hasn't, Miliband.

David Cameron is a really poor PM we just as Gordon Brown was too, we have no idea who makes a good PM until we give them the chance.
For me, Cameron has had his chance and so Miliband with all his faults and awkwardness gets my support.
I could never support UKIP because I neither want an EU referendum or to leave the EU.
The Lib Dems for their misleading of the voters in 2010 and subsequent betrayal as to their promises, warrant being sent into the political wilderness for decades at least.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/6/347834/default/v1/dm-07nov-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/6/347831/default/v1/1001ic-dtndt-1-071114-a001c-dt-1-720x960.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/6/347843/default/v1/ii07.01-1-720x960.jpg

[Nedusa]

Nedusa, usually I love your posts but I have to say, who is going to get into power then, the Conservatives again.Ehat you say will not come about as the process of electing and choosing a new Labour leader takes ages.
No way 6 months before the election would that even be a sensible thing to do.
What would pelase those Labour grumblers is Ed Miliband offering an EU referendum too.
Were he to do that, he would get less backbench grumblings from a 'few' Labour MPs.
I am actually surprised he won't do that,I am not bothered as I don't want one anyway.

Really there is only 2 parties that can win the 2015 election,I doubt either will probably get an overall majority but it is so, that the Conservatives can be 3% ahead of Labour and still not be the largest party.

They can both be on 30% each and Labour will still be the largest party. Whatever happens in Scotland,the SNP would never support a Conservative govt and certainly never with any of UKIPs ideas.
The SNP are a pro EU party too.

I fear that actually leaves Cameron more dead in the water than Labour.
Also there are the leaders debates, David Cameron performed badly in those last time and then didn't get an overall majority, Gordon Brown was lost in them from the start really.

Ed Miliband is a diferent performer and he ,I have the feeling, could impress a lot in such debates over Cameron and Clegg's record.
Also, Nigel Farage,he will impress in any debate he is part of, and although I genuinely think he intensely dislikes all the 3 main party leaders equally, I get the feeling he has just a little more respect for Ed Miliband.

I actually think Nigel Farage would love the scenario of a Labour largest party result where UKIP had picked up enough seats simply to say,give a referendum on the EU and UKIP will not vote against your programme.
I also believe since he says regularly, that he doesn't trust Cameron or believe a single word he says, that he would trust Ed Miliband to deliver such a referendum in the light of a hung parliament for that support.

No leader is far and away a popular one at present, however the Labour party is on equal terms or slightly more preferred as a party to the Conservatives in all polling.
If things stay that way as they even are now, even with the problems for Labour in Scotland,it will be labour who win by far the most seats and who will be part of, if not the, next Government,despite their leader.

Really the Conservatives would also be likely doing much better with another leader too, in fact all 3 main parties need a new leader.
None will come now before the election and there are 2 who will be seen as having failed the UK in Govt. namely Cameron and Clegg, and one that so far hasn't, Miliband.

David Cameron is a really poor PM we just as Gordon Brown was too, we have no idea who makes a good PM until we give them the chance.
For me, Cameron has had his chance and so Miliband with all his faults and awkwardness gets my support.
I could never support UKIP because I neither want an EU referendum or to leave the EU.
The Lib Dems for their misleading of the voters in 2010 and subsequent betrayal as to their promises, warrant being sent into the political wilderness for decades at least.

Joey......... I read your posts with relish especially your Posts concerned with Politics, they well researched and well constructed. but surely even you with your insights into Politics must surely concede Mr Miliband will not win the next election and in fact could even be replaced as Party leader sooner rather than later.

His only hope as you touch upon is that David Cameron is not well liked but people do accept he is a leader and has some credibility in the top Job.

The Lib Dems are a spent force and UKIP will takes seats from all the main parties. so I think Labour will struggle to beat the Tories in a straight fight. But voters ARE not taking to Mr Miliband, Poll after Poll is demonstrating that fact, he appears gawky and wierd and regardless of his personality or conviction in today's World you must have that certain charisma if you expect people to vote for especially the undecided voters who unfortunately do give their vote to the person rather than the party.

Mr Miliband does not look or sound like a PM, the Public think this, the Labour Bigwigs fear this as does increasing numbers of Labour MP's and Party/TUC activists.

Once the groundswell gets to a certain level the Press will start airing these criticism's and more and more influential Labour MP's will start making noises as well. We have all seen this before, we all know how it works.

Shame on Labour for not grooming an understudy or successor to Miliband as now there really is no one credible to replace him.

A shambles for all concerned.




.

[Crimson Dynamo]

LBC can reveal a new poll suggests half of voters think Labour would be more likely to win the next election if Ed Miliband wasn't leader.

"49% of voters think Labour would be better off at the election if they ditched him as leader.

"It comes amid reports that Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham, the Shadow Health Secretary, could run on a joint ticket to replace Mr Miliband.

Ed Miliband has rejected reports several backbenchers have demanded his resignation.

John Mills is one of the Labour party's biggest donors and has told LBC the party needs to pull together. He said: "He was chosen by the Labour party four or five years ago and in politics, you get these bad runs from time to time.

"You've just got to put your head down, get on canvassing, stay loyal to the leader, stick to the policies we've got and get elected."

http://lbc.co.uk/mm/image/31026.jpg
http://www.lbc.co.uk/labour-more-likely-to-win-without-miliband-says-lbc-poll-99974

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-i-hope-miliband-survives-for-my-own-sake-99984

Listen to Nigel talk about Ed Milliband this morning

[joeysteele]

LBC can reveal a new poll suggests half of voters think Labour would be more likely to win the next election if Ed Miliband wasn't leader.

"49% of voters think Labour would be better off at the election if they ditched him as leader.

"It comes amid reports that Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham, the Shadow Health Secretary, could run on a joint ticket to replace Mr Miliband.

Ed Miliband has rejected reports several backbenchers have demanded his resignation.

John Mills is one of the Labour party's biggest donors and has told LBC the party needs to pull together. He said: "He was chosen by the Labour party four or five years ago and in politics, you get these bad runs from time to time.

"You've just got to put your head down, get on canvassing, stay loyal to the leader, stick to the policies we've got and get elected."

http://lbc.co.uk/mm/image/31026.jpg
http://www.lbc.co.uk/labour-more-likely-to-win-without-miliband-says-lbc-poll-99974

Well oddly enough I would have preferred Andy Burnham to have got the Labour leadership, if I had been a supporter of the party then,he would have been my choice had I had a vote.

I agree with him on the NHS 100% and did so when he was Health Secretary too up to May 2010.

However, I don't see any change coming about, a Leader has to have his own agenda and to change most of what Labour stands for now with a new leader possibly only weeks before the campaign could in fact be even worse.

I don't think on the day of the election, the bloodbath against Labour will materialise to the extent it may seem now and although both Conservative and Labour will be affected by whatever poll rating UKIP will be on at the elction, I still believe firmly UKIP will hit the Conservative vote more than Labours.
Which really leaves it likely anyones guess what happens in the 2015 election as to the arithmetic of who gets power with no main 'old' party getting enough for an overall majority.

Andy Burnham however taking the reigns for Labour anytime would be a good move for me.

[Northern Monkey]

Looks like Labour could be in trouble if they don't get over this,Either by ousting Milliband or starting to back him and concentrate on the election.They don't need this now though.Maybe they're thinking a new leader might breathe some life into the party and get voters heads turning away from UKIP.

[joeysteele]

Looks like Labour could be in trouble if they don't get over this,Either by ousting Milliband or starting to back him and concentrate on the election.They don't need this now though.Maybe they're thinking a new leader might breathe some life into the party and get voters heads turning away from UKIP.

It is in all parties, we had Charles Kennedy on uestion time last night saying he didn't vote for the Lib Dems joining this Coalition, David Cameron has really massive problems with this Rochester by election because the fear is,if he loses it badly to an MP who only entered the Commons in 2010,it could trigger greater dissent in more of his MPs.

This may yet, not be the last by election of this Parliament if some Conservative MPs feel they can safely hold onto their seats on a UKIP ticket as Carswell and Reckless will have.

UKIP are on the rise,no doubt at all as to that and the more they rise, the more David Cameron also becomes isolated.

Labour's problem is presentation, Ed Miliband need to look at 2 years ago, when he was etting the agenda on the bedroom tax and the energy price freeze.
He has allowed himself to become a little complacent,Labour also need to push more to the front the real strong players in their team. Such as Chukka Ummunah, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Rachel Reeves to name just 4.
Get the presentation right, stress it more and more and the masage is a far more hopeful one and in my view,better one than the Govt, currently has.

The thing is, the 2 main 'old' parties are both running scared of UKIP,I still believe UKIP will hit both but the Conservatives more,however I do really wish Ed Miliband would also offer an EU referendum, that would halt the backbench worries and take the heat out of the EU debate too.
It is that Ed Miliband is seen to be lot listening to those backbenchers that is helping cause this unrest.
I think he has the right ideas and will be compassionate and strong where that needs to be done but he does have to wake up to this and get his presentation for the campaign ready and presented more confidently.

The 2015 election is starting to look,with all 3 main parties at a loss as to UKIP,as if it will be a really poor show all the way through if all this keeps up from all of them.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/8/348399/default/v1/obse-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/8/348402/default/v2/times-1-720x960.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/8/348403/default/v1/mail-on-sunday-1-720x960.jpg

[joeysteele]

The polls are odd,It is the way questions are asked that often 'guide' an answer one way or another.
I will wait to see if these headlines are actually true in the full context of what the MPs are supposed to be saying.
I almost could belive some Labour MPs don't actually want to win the 2015 election,some in the Labour party for instance,never liked either Miliband brother anyway.

I tried this out today on just 20 people,not scientific,10 each with a differently put question.
To the first 10, I asked ''with the recent publicity of Ed Milband's performances do you think he could be a good PM''.
All said No.

To the second 10, I asked, ''Do you believe Ed Miliband as PM could be trusted to carry out Labours policies for the NHS and scrapping the bedroom tax''
9 said yes, 1 said no.

It doesn't prove anything but it would seem highlighting the negatives holds back support for him,while if these moaning MPs got out with the positive, strong and united message on the policies they all agree on, a different response seems probable as to him.

The press are having a field day at present but they ignore the rpoblem fo how hard it is to challenge and change a Labour leader at present.
I feel sure Tristram Hunt has been misquoted and would liek to hear all he ahs to say from himslef, not with the journalistic doctoring.
Tristram Hunt,if he does feel that way, should then test the water for himself on the party and see if he could ever get enough MPs to publicly back a leadership challenge.

I think he would end up being very disappointed, so these MPs should put up or shut up and get on with the job of exposing the heartlessness of this present Conservative led govt and the dangerous and unjust policies it would bring in,were it to ever get any kind of overall majority in 2015.

Love him or loathe him, when your leader has his back to the wall you avoid any situation that will make things worse for him and in turn the Party overall.
If Tristram Hunt for one, has these thoughts then he should resign from the Shadow Cabinet or be thrown out along with anyone else who intends working against the leadership rather than for it.

It is simply too late to change leader now,way too late,however even where Labour are in the polls now, they would be the next govt. or the lading Party in it.
Labour MPs should think hard before they speak on the issue to any journalist,trust their leader not journalists and certainly never anyone from the rotten sick Mail.

There are rumblings obviously,that cannot be denied, however this talk of any change of leader is futile and ridiculous.
Just as in the Conservative party, they have MPs who would see Cameron gone tomorrow too, a good number see him already as a loser,failing to win an overall majority in 2010.
They for sure know with the UKIP situation and how he has fared in the polls since early 2011, he is a pretty strong bet for being an even worse loser again in 2015.
Even if he stayed on the 30% to 33% the Conservatives have now and Labour even went down to the 29/30% it got in 2010.

That represents the very sad state of all the Parties and politics at the present time.

[Kizzy]

People are so fickle, why would they have faith in someone they have heard nothing of over Ed? Again it's playing right into the hands of the conservatives who are ramping up the pressure I see, can't see what's in front of them some people it's ridiculous.

[joeysteele]

People are so fickle, why would they have faith in someone they have heard nothing of over Ed? Again it's playing right into the hands of the conservatives who are ramping up the pressure I see, can't see what's in front of them some people it's ridiculous.

I agree with you Kizzy.
Being honest, I would rather there had been a different leader of Labour than Ed Miliband, however he is the leader and in fact he and the policies he has accepted as firm policies has won me over from my previous Conservative background and my voting Lib Dem in 2010.
His efforts and the policies of his Labour Party have done that.

I think every main 'old' party has a poor leader really,you have Nick Clegg who in fact, has the unenviable fact of not only his word meaning nothing but also anything he signs his name to either.
Then we get David Cameron,guaranteeing no top down re-organisation of the NHS,then doing it,causing absolute dismay and chaos in the NHS, despite it neither being in his manifesto or the Lib dems.

Then he goes on about the EU, saying it is an important issue that needs to be sorted.
He said that over 2 years ago, then feels this important issue can wait over 2 years until the next election.
Then he states if, I stress if, he gets an overall majority,only then will he set out to get a better deal from the EU for the UK.
He will then unbelievably take another 2+ years on this important issue to do re-negotiations and only then afterwards hopefully hold a referendum by the end of his then almost 3rd year in power again.

If this is how he treats an important issue, lord help us as to the other things that need sorting by Govt.
He has no intention of holding a referendum,none at all unless it was clear that the voters would vote to stay in, he knows for big business,that would have to be the case.
he could in fact have done the re-negotiations these last 2 years he has rambled on about them and then in 2015, be able to offer a firm referendum date,that is, 'if' he was really genuine as to it.

So he is now another one not to be trusted at all with anything and certainly nothing important.

That is why despite all the issues and problems Ed Milband has,I support him and his Party.
He has not had the chance to show us what he can really deliver,the old 2 have and it has been a disaster so for those reasons and the policies Labour have in putting the wrong things right again,I will support Ed Miliband and Labour and help give him that chance.

Only then will we see if he can be trusted too and what kind of PM he could and would be.
However he couldn't possibly do worse than these 2 leaders we have had running things these last near 5 years now, who have been an almost totally incompetent and sadly heartless shambles.

[Kizzy]

I agree with you Kizzy.
Being honest, I would rather there had been a different leader of Labour than Ed Miliband, however he is the leader and in fact he and the policies he has accepted as firm policies has won me over from my previous Conservative background and my voting Lib Dem in 2010.
His efforts and the policies of his Labour Party have done that.

I think every main 'old' party has a poor leader really,you have Nick Clegg who in fact, has the unenviable fact of not only his word meaning nothing but also anything he signs his name to either.
Then we get David Cameron,guaranteeing no top down re-organisation of the NHS,then doing it,causing absolute dismay and chaos in the NHS, despite it neither being in his manifesto or the Lib dems.

Then he goes on about the EU, saying it is an important issue that needs to be sorted.
He said that over 2 years ago, then feels this important issue can wait over 2 years until the next election.
Then he states if, I stress if, he gets an overall majority,only then will he set out to get a better deal from the EU for the UK.
He will then unbelievably take another 2+ years on this important issue to do re-negotiations and only then afterwards hopefully hold a referendum by the end of his then almost 3rd year in power again.

If this is how he treats an important issue, lord help us as to the other things that need sorting by Govt.
He has no intention of holding a referendum,none at all unless it was clear that the voters would vote to stay in, he knows for big business,that would have to be the case.
he could in fact have done the re-negotiations these last 2 years he has rambled on about them and then in 2015, be able to offer a firm referendum date,that is, 'if' he was really genuine as to it.

So he is now another one not to be trusted at all with anything and certainly nothing important.

That is why despite all the issues and problems Ed Milband has,I support him and his Party.
He has not had the chance to show us what he can really deliver,the old 2 have and it has been a disaster so for those reasons and the policies Labour have in putting the wrong things right again,I will support Ed Miliband and Labour and help give him that chance.

Only then will we see if he can be trusted too and what kind of PM he could and would be.
However he couldn't possibly do worse than these 2 leaders we have had running things these last near 5 years now, who have been an almost totally incompetent and sadly heartless shambles.

That would almost be too sensible to not believe the desperate smokescreens and slur campaigns of the right wing media, it's so sad how gullible the public are... seriously frightening joey, as you say how the heck could it ever be any worse?
Everything they have done has been to line their own pockets..lobbying fraud, cronyism, expenses scandals, cash for honours. It's all forgotten about due to this silly non story, pathetic.

[arista]

That would almost be too sensible to not believe the desperate smokescreens and slur campaigns of the right wing media, it's so sad how gullible the public are... seriously frightening joey, as you say how the heck could it ever be any worse?
Everything they have done has been to line their own pockets..lobbying fraud, cronyism, expenses scandals, cash for honours. It's all forgotten about due to this silly non story, pathetic.


Kizzy what about The Labour MP's that want him out?
Thats the only Factor that Fecking matters here

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/8/348406/default/v4/09nov-ios-front-1-720x960.jpg
And Kizzy
This Ain't a Right Wing Paper
Let alone todays Observer


Toxic Ed

[joeysteele]

With respect arista a lot of Jewish voters are disillusioned with all the Parties stances on Palestine, however just because it may offend some sections of society,it isn't wrong to be pushing for a state for Palestine.

It will be and is the real only way to a lasting peace of sorts in that area probably,many Nations are coming round to that too and of course it will have to be done with full consultation with Israel.
I have every sympathy for Israel,it is a Nation surrounded by nothing but hostile other Nations as to its existence but it has to be protected too.

There was a vote in the House of Commons, not in any way a firm vote of recognition of a Palestinaian state but certainly a testing of the water and it was carried by a good margin.
So in fact all Parties in the UK are moving to this being the only way ahead but I hope it is done with agreement and support for it eventually from Israel too.

For some Jewish voters to turn against Labour for their stance on this, is not really reasoned politics, this is also old news, I am surprised you missed it but Maureen Lipman ,a likely lifelong Labour supporter stated she was not going to support Labour now at least a week ago.

Well that's fine, however to be living here in the UK and believe in the labour policies for the NHS and be against most of the other social policies of this Govt.
Then to throw all that out and stop supporting a Party for that party saying something should be done,while not advocating doing it on a whim, shows a very sad reasoning for me from her, andalso by those who make this the only issue as to who they will support in an election in the UK.

Well she and others can vote Conservative or Lib Dem then or even UKIP,what is their view on Palestine, does anyone know, I don't.
However I think it wrong that in the UK which has served such voters well overall and which they have dedicated themselves to as well, to make these silly, 'right, I don't agree with that so I am not voting for them again' statements is I am sorry to say in my view a childish and ridiculous position to take.

I am supporter of Israel,they are a Nation that have to be ever watchful in the area they are in as to their existence even.
I also believe in a Palestinian state too, my hope is that both Israel and the Palestinians will in time,sooner rather than later, find their way to that table again and work things out.

That does not mean however that any other Country or any Party in another country has not the right to say what it believes is right to happen and to set out to probably support same.

[arista]

"Maureen Lipman"

Yes Joey

Things Change.


But also the Observer
is Not Right Wing

[joeysteele]

"Maureen Lipman"

Yes Joey

Things Change.


But also the Observer
is Not Right Wing

I never said it was arista. However,I still don't go with the excessive drama the papers are trying to present as to this issue,from in the main so called,anonymous,unnamed MPs and sources.
I have little time,indeed no time at all ,for cowards who want to say something or want something done but will not identify themselves fully in the process.

I still also believe that Tristram Hunt has likely been misquoted and his comments taken out of context too, as is the case for most politicians of all parties with journalists.

[arista]

I never said it was arista. However,I still don't go with the excessive drama the papers are trying to present as to this issue,from in the main so called,anonymous,unnamed MPs and sources.
I have little time,indeed no time at all ,for cowards who want to say something or want something done but will not identify themselves fully in the process.

I still also believe that Tristram Hunt has likely been misquoted and his comments taken out of context too, as is the case for most politicians of all parties with journalists.

Sure on T.Hunt


But many are Shocked at the Left Wing Observer
attacking Ed.

As for names
when they get a Leader confirmed
then the names could come

[joeysteele]

Sure on T.Hunt


But many are Shocked at the Left Wing Observer
attacking Ed.

As for names
when they get a Leader confirmed
then the names could come

I would guess the Observer would prefer to see a Labour victory in 2015 and it does likely feel that a new leader would make such a victory more assured.
However the polling suggest not a great deal of change no matter who was leader.

For me, and I still think it is a really good and strong one, the mesage of Labour's policies is what matters in the end.
Despite the reservations many have as to Ed Miliband,the more he sticks to his guns and presses on,I think voters will come to at least respect that and continue to support those policies,even if they cannot the man at the helm.

If,in Govt. he really delivers all he says he will as PM,(and I am convinced he would),then there could be a whole turnaround for him.

[arista]

I would guess the Observer would prefer to see a Labour victory in 2015 and it does likely feel that a new leader would make such a victory more assured.
However the polling suggest not a great deal of change no matter who was leader.

For me, and I still think it is a really good and strong one, the mesage of Labour's policies is what matters in the end.
Despite the reservations many have as to Ed Miliband,the more he sticks to his guns and presses on,I think voters will come to at least respect that and continue to support those policies,even if they cannot the man at the helm.

If,in Govt. he really delivers all he says he will as PM,(and I am convinced he would),then there could be a whole turnaround for him.



Sure
or until he makes a Tragic Error

In Politics alot can happen in just 5 days

[joeysteele]

Sure
or until he makes a Tragic Error

In Politics alot can happen in just 5 days



That is true,both in negative and positive ways.

I cannot see what tragic error he can now make, the only one I see as to his policies and political status was his outright and still outright refusal to commit to a referendum on the EU in the next parliament.

That doesn't bother me,as I have no wish whatsoever to be given a vote myself on the EU.
It would be a waste of taxpayers money and time for me as we are in the EU and I would vote everytime to stay in the EU.

However had Ed Miliband committed to one,these rumblings from a minority in the Labour party would be non existent, so petty are their arguments as to him.
I actually admire that he again on that issue stands firm, so is clearly not frightened of any challenge,because at a stroke he could make life a lot easier for himself as leader if he was to agree to one.

I also realy cannot see the predicted bloodbath coming about in Scotland either,I predict Labour could lose from 5 to 10 seats in Scotland but I really doubt any more.

When a storm comes,you have to ride it through and it is often the loudest thunder that brings the smallest rain in the end.

[arista]

https://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/staggers.png?w=480&h=394

[JohnnyBB]

Suppose this is what labour gets for pissing off Murdoch there all his papers.

[arista]

Suppose this is what labour gets for pissing off Murdoch there all his papers.


Sure
and now all the Left Wing Papers /mags
have also got it in for ED.


He Can't Escape it

The more he talks
the worse it gets

[arista]

Joey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_MacKinlay

Andrew MacKinlay was just live on BBCNews
older than us
he is 65 and former Labour MP

He said Ed Miliband is not rallying the troops
and in a speech he goes wrong.
he has seen other Labour Leaders
like that , and they did not win

[joeysteele]

Joey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_MacKinlay

Andrew MacKinlay was just live on BBCNews
older than us
he is 65 and former Labour MP

He said Ed Miliband is not rallying the troops
and in a speech he goes wrong.
he has seen other Labour Leaders
like that , and they did not win

Former MPs have had their day and many of them grumbled at Harold Wilson,James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock, and even more at Tony Blair.
Just as many former MPs have attacked Conservative leaders and PMs too

I have said and I agree with a present MP, that Ed Miliband needs to push to the front his team of shadow ministers.
I have said the presentation is a problem,that doesn't however make the content of the presentation invalid at all.

You must hope he won't win. for you that is,for me I on the other hand want him to,I also believe that the way politics is at present, he is the one with the best, if not only chance of coming nearer to an overall majority,if he turns things around a bit in Scotland he likely will scrape an overall majority.

He won me over for one,I am in no way unique,I am sure he has many others thinking too, no matter what they may think of him personally.

As for the press, I never take any notice of the press at all, whether it supports the party I do or if it doesn't.
The press are a dying breed as to influencing voters, people get more truth as to politics from other outlets on the internet without reading the biased and often vitriolic lies and nonsense that journalist print about all politicians, from all parties.

[JoshBB]

Sometimes I like ed (eg. when he did a speech slating the bedroom tax), then at other times I don't. Imo it would be best for Labour if he stands down, however UKIP may have damaged the Conservative vote enough for them to still get in - plus a lot of tories aren't happy with Cameron's leadership.

[arista]

Sometimes I like ed (eg. when he did a speech slating the bedroom tax), then at other times I don't. Imo it would be best for Labour if he stands down, however UKIP may have damaged the Conservative vote enough for them to still get in - plus a lot of tories aren't happy with Cameron's leadership.


Yes

Also UKIP takes Labour Voters
as well

[arista]

Former MPs have had their day and many of them grumbled at Harold Wilson,James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock, and even more at Tony Blair.
Just as many former MPs have attacked Conservative leaders and PMs too

I have said and I agree with a present MP, that Ed Miliband needs to push to the front his team of shadow ministers.
I have said the presentation is a problem,that doesn't however make the content of the presentation invalid at all.

You must hope he won't win for for you that is,for me I on the other hand want him to,I also believe that the way politics is at present, he is the one with the best, if not only chance of coming nearer to an overall majority,if he turns things around a bit in Scotland he likely will scrape an overall majority.

He won me over for one,I am in no way unique,I am sure he has many others thinking too, no matter what they may think of him personally.

As for the press, I never take any notice of the press at all, whether it supports the party I do or if it doesn't.
The press are a dying breed as to influencing voters, people get more truth as to politics from other outlets on the internet without reading the biased and often vitriolic lies and nonsense that journalist print about all politicians, from all parties.

Sure
some others like you also backed
the Walking Dead PM Brown

[arista]

Also On Ch4NewsHD , just now
if they changed to Alan Johnson
the backing numbers would go right up.

Under Miliband
they keep going down

[joeysteele]

Sure
some others like you also backed
the Walking Dead PM Brown

:joker:I never backed Gordon Brown at all, I helped vote him out.

I wanted to be able to vote Conservative in 2010 with my first ever vote but I lost trust in David Cameron as to his ideas for the NHS.
I didn't really believe his assurance that there would be 'no top down re-organisation of the NHS under him'.
I was proven right to have done that as he mislead the voters.

So I voted Lib Dem, hoping for a hung parliament, whereby they would moderate the Conservative policies and keep down tuition fees and help protect the NHS.
I saw that vote as a hopeful insurance policy that if it was Labour they kept in power, that they would curb any borrowing by Labour, keep them to their plan of halving the deficit in 4 years, no rise in tuition fees and protecting and investing in the NHS.

Well what a shock I got from the Lib Dems too, they threw all my and the other voters who did, trust right back in my face and completely betrayed their voters in return for crumbs from the Conservative party.

What I have seen happen and the devastation caused as to the poorest, the most vulnerable, sick and disabled from this govts.policies is what has brought me to Labour and Ed Milibands door and also my main concern, the NHS which even with their faults as to it, I see Labour as the only party that can really be trusted with the NHS now.
Even the Lib Dems have lost my trust in that direction too.

I was a Conservative until I was 17 arista,this heartless current Conservative is nothing what I expect a decent party of the UK to be or act.

This govt. has in fact lost over a third of what it got in 2010,down from 61% of votes cast for the 2 parties, running at 38% in the polls now.
Only UKIP, Greens and Labour have gone up in votes since 2010.

It still seems voters are at a bit of a loss who to vote for to get rid of this coalition Govt.
I just really hope they realise in time that there is really only one way to 100% ensure this Govt. is sent packing conclusively in 2015, and that is to vote Labour.
Voting UKIP may help get rid of them too but to be sure,it is really only votes for Labour that will get this heartless,rotten shower out,once and for all.
That is what I hope and still think will happen on election day too.

Voters cannot believe anything David Cameron and Nick Clegg say.
It may also well be that Ed Miliband may not be able to be trusted too,maybe he will,that cannot be said true one way or the other.
However we have seen what this PM and Deputy PM have done with power,it is far from acceptable or right.
We haven't however seen what Ed Miliband will really do and like them he now deserves a shot at it,in my opinion.

[arista]

I Know you never backed Brown
I said other "Like " you

[joeysteele]

I Know you never backed Brown
I said other "Like " you

:laugh:Oh I see.
It has been really enjoyable chatting with you on this arista, it always is,I am sure we will return to some issue like this again.
Possibly after the Rochester by election when it may be another leader struggling to keep some order in his party.

[arista]

"Miliband Out - If A Labour MP Breaks Cover"

Yes Please

http://news.sky.com/story/1369979/miliband-out-if-a-labour-mp-breaks-cover

[Nedusa]

"Miliband Out - If A Labour MP Breaks Cover"

Yes Please

http://news.sky.com/story/1369979/miliband-out-if-a-labour-mp-breaks-cover

matter of days.......

[joeysteele]

No way is Ed Miliband going anywhere and I doubt he will be even after the elction. Because at the very least Labour,I believe will still be the largest party after the election.

With more likely guarded support to govern from the Natonalists,who would never I believe allow the Conservatives to continue and also the support of the SDLP in N. Ireland,no way will the Conservatives and Lib Dems win enough seats to erode that scenario.

There is simply no real appetite or evn time from the vast majority of the Labour movement to now embark on a leadership election.
There is in all truth and in all fact, no vacancy and that vast majority of the Labour movement, don't want there to be a vacancy either.

Now let us settle down to hear all David Cameron's likely problems with his party after the farce in the Commons yesterday and then the result of the Rochester by election next week.
Far more substance in those issues than in Ed Milibands already assured position as Labour leader for the 2015 election and I also believe well beyond it too as he is still likely to be the next Prime Minister.

[Kizzy]

No way is Ed Miliband going anywhere and I doubt he will be even after the elction. Because at the very least Labour,I believe will still be the largest party after the election.

With more likely guarded support to govern from the Natonalists,who would never I believe allow the Conservatives to continue and also the support of the SDLP in N. Ireland,no way will the Conservatives and Lib Dems win enough seats to erode that scenario.

There is simply no real appetite or evn time from the vast majority of the Labour movement to now embark on a leadership election.
There is in all truth and in all fact, no vacancy and that vast majority of the Labour movement, don't want there to be a vacancy either.

Now let us settle down to hear all David Cameron's likely problems with his party after the farce in the Commons yesterday and then the result of the Rochester by election next week.
Far more substance in those issues than in Ed Milibands already assured position as Labour leader for the 2015 election and I also believe well beyond it too as he is still likely to be the next Prime Minister.


:joker::joker: Yes let's, the media hatchet job was most likely expected, he needs to just stand firm and watch the conservatives implode.

[joeysteele]

Furthermore all this as to Ed Milibands low poll ratings, there is little he can do to show he would be a good PM until he becomes one.
The amazing thing is of those polled in the same poll, nearly two thirds of those polled said they didn't rate Cameron either and Cameron has been doing the job for the last 4 and a half years.

Nothing really positive for him either then, he is PM but only just over a third rate his premiership, now let see what the ratings may be for Ed Miliband after 4 and a half years of being PM.
I'd dare bet they'd be higher than procrastinator Cameron's.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2QFv9lIYAAlH4j.jpg:large




:joker:

[Nedusa]

I'm sorry but I am sticking to my earlier prediction that Mr Miliband will be replaced soon. He had an opportunity today to give a speech allaying fears he was affected by the current press clamour for his removal. But the audience were hand picked and his message is landing on deaf ears.

The majority of mainstream labour voters do not think Mr Miliband has what it takes to beat the Conservatives and run the Country.

No amount of speeches by Mr Miliband will change this perception. The Labour hierarchy now have to decide whether to stick with The labour leader and risk losing the election or cut and run , replace him with a more charismatic leader but also run the risk of doing this too close to the election for voters to get to know the new leader.
Either way Labour are in trouble, they have dillied and dallied with Mr Miliband for 3 or 4 years now knowing he was a risk to voters. They never groomed a credible understudy who could strip in should Mr Miliband falter.

Now they are left between a rock and a hard place. Thank goodness Mr Cameron is equally unpopular and with the UKIP on the rise taking voters from both main parties the best the Labour Party can hope for is a coalition govt with Labour the senior party but well short of a parliamentary majority.

Watch this space.

[joeysteele]

I thought his speech today was a good one but an unnecessary one,it wss however far more relevant to the UK at large than the childish sniping from the media and their inventions of stories that sadly politicians of all parties have to put up with nowadays.

He re-iterated his values, the policies of compassion as to KLabour policies, the NHS and also his determination not to be sidestepped from standing up to those who not only get at him but also the business giants who rip their customers off right,left and centre.

He took on UKIP too and stressed his determination not to be put off course from doing all he has promised to if elected.

Contrast that with rthe deceit and lies we were told by the Conservatives and Lib Dems in 2010 and likely even now too.
By the Conservatives as to not only likely doubling tuition fees but actually trebling them, as to no top down re-organisation for the NHS then doing it,without any mandate from the voters to do so too.
Then the slimy Lib Dems, who threw every promise made to their voters out the window for to secure a miserable 5 years of shared power and a few Ministerial positions for themselves.

Contrast just those few things with the speech Miliband made today and I know, for one,who I will give the chance to prove themself now and it is neither of the pevious misleading and lying two,the aforementioned David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

[Nedusa]

I thought his speech today was a good one but an unnecessary one,it wss however far more relevant to the UK at lasrge than the childish sniping from the media and their inventions of stories that sadly politicians of all parties have to put up with nowadays.

He re-iterated his values, the policies of compassion as to KLabour policies, the NHS and also his determination not to be sidestepped from standing up to those who not only get at him but also the business giants who rip their customers off right,left and centre.

He took on UKIP too and stressed his determination not to be put off course from doing all he has promised to if elected.

Contrast that with rthe deceit and lies we were told by the Conservatives and Lib Dems in 2010 and likely even now too.
By the Conservatives as to not only likely doubling tuition fees but actually trebling them, as to no top down re-organisation for the NHS then doing it,without any mandate from the voters to do so too.
Then the slimy Lib Dems, who threw every promise made to their voters out the window for to secure a miserble 5 years of shared power and a few Ministerial positions for themselves.

Contrast just those few things with the speech Miliband made today and I know, for one,who I will give the chance to prove themself now and it is neither of the pevious misleading and lying two,the aforementioned David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

That's the sad irony of this whole affair is that the best leader is not necessarily the best looking most eloquent or most charismatic. But they are the ones that get voted in, it's the way of politics now where the voter is voting for the leader not the party so only the personal qualities of the leader are judged above the policies of the party.

It's totally wrong I know but it happens every time. Look at Tony Benn and Michael Foot both would have made great leaders but they never got the chance.

I hope Mr Miliband survives and wins the election but honestly can't see it as once the hounds attack the sniping gets louder and louder until a labour front bencher breaks ranks and openly criticises the leader forcing him to hold a vote of confidence and by then I'm afraid it's pretty much game over for Mr Miliband.

I think if he survives to Christmas then he will be OK, but I suspect there are further pitfalls and bear traps lying in wait for him. It could be a long 7 weeks.




.

[joeysteele]

That's the sad irony of this whole affair is that the best leader is not necessarily the best looking most eloquent or most charismatic. But they are the ones that get voted in, it's the way of politics now where the voter is voting for the leader not the party so only the personal qualities of the leader are judged above the policies of the party.

It's totally wrong I know but it happens every time. Look at Tony Benn and Michael Foot both would have made great leaders but they never got the chance.

I hope Mr Miliband survives and wins the election but honestly can't see it as once the hounds attack the sniping gets louder and louder until a labour front bencher breaks ranks and openly criticises the leader forcing him to hold a vote of confidence and by then I'm afraid it's pretty much game over for Mr Miliband.

I think if he survives to Christmas then he will be OK, but I suspect there are further pitfalls and bear traps lying in wait for him. It could be a long 7 weeks.




.

Exactly Nedusa, Tony Benn,had he been a Labour leader and then PM,would have changed the UK completely.
Although had I been born in his time,I would not then have agreed with his policies,I admit that.
However I respect and love the way he too, despite all the personal attacks fired at him by the press and the Conservative party,how he stood firm and carried on regardless.

He was branded the most dangerous man in politics and a loony left madman by the Conservatives for advocating in the 80s and early 90s that we should leave the EU,what does that now make this lot in power now then.

I agree with you, I hope Labour win the election but I also agree with you that it now looks more likely they will be the largest party rather than a govt. with an overall majority.
Divided parties do struggle in elections so this nonsense around Ed Miliband going, has to be well and truly halted and dealt with,then the main issues can be hopefully got across.
Having said that, I am sure this is the going to be the most dirty,nasty and rotten election campaign form the Conservatives and their 'press' friends,especially the sickening Daily Mail and the paper that,in my view, should never have been allowed to continue in existence,The Sun.

I mean, yesterday even Nigel Farage said he could work with Labour,I guess he meant if they agreed a referendum on the EU that he would not have his party bring down a Labour govt in that scenario.

I am not that worried as to Scotland, if Labour lost half its seats there, they will all go to the SNP, no way will the SNP support a Conservative led govt.
So in reality,although not desired, the next house of commons could look really strange as to its makeup.

There will be,in another hung parliament a likely massive anti Conservative vote from just about all the other parties,except for the DUP in Northern Ireland.
It could yet be that at last we get a govt. that reflects the views in part of just about all the parties of the UK,which oddly enough may also just be one the best govts. the UK has had.

[joeysteele]

I have to say if Ed Miliband wants to really look at making an impact and re-inventing himself as a credible leader to more voters.
I hope he watched the SNP conference today.

Alex Salmond has been the SNP leader the longest of all the other party leaders of any party,his farewell speech today was vibrant, full of vision and sounded fresher than anything any other party or their leaders appear to be or have acted for years.
I don't care for Nicola Sturgeon but she as the new SNP leader also presented a clear vision and the enthusiasm for the fight ahead and for her Nation was clearly evident.

This is how politicians should be, fighting for their Nation and also setting out to ensure all citizens benefit with no discriminatory policies against any section of society or demonising any sections of society either.

I was gripped throughout the whole session today, the thought came firing at me this is what Ed Miliband needs to do too,really force the message across.
he has a fantastic amount to go on too.

David Cameron's lies as to the NHS re-organisation,the massive danger presented to the UK with his procrastinated over 4 year long EU referendum policy and his attack, demonisation of and discriminatory policies against the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable, sick and disabled of the UK.

Then Ed has the other waste of space left, Nick Clegg,the man who promised voters loads, even signed a pledge in order to get their trust and votes, only to smack them in the face for their trust and votes by supporting some of the most unjust, heartless and rotten policies against vulnerable people from a rotten from the core, not to the core govt.which he chose to be part of too.

Come on Ed, get your front team together,get out there hammering that message home all the time up to the 2015 election.
Accepting things are better economically at last but also reminding people that we were out of recession and had 1.1% growth when this lot took power in 2010,which they then eroded for nearly 3 years with at best tiny or no growth at all.
Leaving inflation to eat away at peoples incomes.

He needs to spell out how Labour would not let the recovery and growth in place now be eroded by himself and Labour, to stress they will build on that growth and nurture that recovery which is at last in place after so long.
Not be put off by the small,at last, successes of this govt. but use it to his and Labour's advantage.
Pressing home how important it is not to let the Conservatives and Lib Dems after the election in 2015, erode the recovery and growth in place now as they did by the end of 2010.

Ed said there was a lot to fight for, he is right and he should start right now on the lines outlined above.
If he did and energised Labour and the voters, he could yet get a very positive surprising result in 2015.

I hope he does watch the SNP conference highlgihts today,because for me that is the way to do it and go about things.

[arista]

"Come on Ed, get your front team together,"


How can he when half of them want him out.

[lostalex]

If they can't even figure out how to choose a decent leader, how the **** can you expect them to lead any meaningful policies? Gawd Labour is so ****ing pathetic.

Who the **** would ever trust these idiots to lead anything, let alone the entire country.

It seems the only think Labour is good at is gaining sympathy. do they honestly believe people will vote for them just based on sympathy? just because they are so sad and pathetic?

Who the **** would ever vote for a party that seems so pathetic?

[joeysteele]

"Come on Ed, get your front team together,"


How can he when half of them want him out.

No they don't and that is not the case at all.

I still hope he will learn that negatives can be turned into positives,as I outlined as to the SNP.

Alex Salmond was ridiculed in the independence referendum campaign by those at the very top of UK politics and the press too.
He narrowly lost the fight for the referendum results he wanted but the SNP coming together, rallying round their leadership despite all that negativity towards his cause and himself.
Has seen him as he hands over to Nicola Sturgeon being seen as one of the better politicians in the UK and he would have remained so had he stayed as leader too.

Those who fired the negativity, the ridicule, the insults and the threats are the ones who have lost the credibility.
It can be done and if the Labour party unite around their leadership,the full team of Shadow Ministers, the election is still able to be theirs.

3 days ago we had a poll saying the Conservatives were 3% ahead of Labour 32% to 29% respectively, today the you gov poll says Labour has a 3% lead with 35% to the Conservatives 32%.
All the polls are saying the same thing, things are close between the 2 main parties but the fact is, if the polls stay as they are then Labour will be the next govt.

All the main parties need a shake up but as yet there is no proven record of Ed Miliband lying to and misleading the voters, as there is with the other 2.
I really do still believe he can win in 2015 and rather strongly too.

[arista]

"that is not the case at all."


How would you know?

[joeysteele]

"that is not the case at all."


How would you know?

Simple,There is not a single front bench MP of the Labour party that has come forward and said in any form whatsoever that they want Ed Miliband to go.

You only have the stories of the press with their likely inventions as to stories and their 'anonymous' sources.
None of whom have even been named by the press either to force them out in the open.
Therefore,I can easily accept that none of the Shadow cabinet or the bulk of Labour MPs want a change of leader at this time.

It was quoted in a certain rag of a paper that both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper,(Ed Ball's wife),had signified they would put themselves forward for the leadership.
Both called the report total nonsense,both said it was pure fiction on the particular paper's part.
The paper has never come back on that so clearly Andy and Yvette were correct. nothing of any substance just rubbish reporting and inventing of storylines.

I talk to people in the Labour party every day rather than the trashy press,as I do to some in other parties too and that is how I believe I can say I know.
It is also how I know 100% that no way will Ed Miliband not be leader in the election of 2015.
Despite what others may hope to see come about.

I also for one will be out with hoards of others battling for Labour and Ed Miliband all through the election campaign,every vote fought for and I think and hope there will be a good positive result.

Whatever happens,Labour majority govt. a Labour led coalition or a Labour minority govt. as long as this rotten heartless shower are turfed out of power, all will be good in my eyes.
Whatever else may happen, that is what I believe will happen too, this lot out and well out too.

[arista]

"that has come forward"

Of Course


But many months to go Lad



Also ITN, BBC and SkyNews Reporters have spoken
direct to Labour MP's
and they are waiting for their moment.


Thats not made up

[joeysteele]

"that has come forward"

Of Course


But many months to go Lad



Also ITN, BBC and SkyNews Reporters have spoken
direct to Labour MP's
and they are waiting for their moment.


Thats not made up


I feel fairly sure that someone as politically astute as you are arista,with your deep and great knowledge of elections and your own observances of politics, know also that there will be no change of leader of any party now before the 2015 election.

After that election now, there could well be at least 2 changes of Leader pretty quick too depending on the result.

[Kizzy]

Simple,There is not a single front bench MP of the Labour party that has come forward and said in any form whatsoever that they want Ed Miliband to go.

You only have the stories of the press with their likely inventions as to stories and their 'anonymous' sources.
None of whom have even been named by the press either to force them out in the open.
Therefore,I can easily accept that none of the Shadow cabinet or the bulk of Labour MPs want a change of leader at this time.

It was quoted in a certain rag of a paper that both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper,(Ed Ball's wife),had signified they would put themselves forward for the leadership.
Both called the report total nonsense,both said it was pure fiction on the particular papers part.
The paper has never come back on that so clearly Andy and Yvette were correct. nothing of any substance just rubbish reporting and inventing of storylines.

I talk to people in the Labour party every day rather than the trashy press,as I do to some in other parties too and that is how I belive I can say I know.
It is also how I know 100% that no way will Ed Miliband not be leader in the election of 2015.
Despite what others may hope to see come about.

I also for one will be out with hoards of others battling for Labour and Ed Miliband all through the election campaign,every vote fought for and I think and hope there will be a good positive result.

Whatever happens,Labour majority govt. a Labour led coalition or a Labour minority govt. as long as this rotten heartless shower are turfed out of power, all will be good in my eyes.
Whatever else may happen, that is what I belive will happen too, this lot out and well out too.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: