Young Woman subjected to 108 catcalls during 10 hour walk through New York

[Crimson Dynamo]

b1XGPvbWn0A


https://bmia.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/shoshona.jpg


A small squat woman with a large butt walked for 10 hours silently thru NYC and secretly videoed all the comments


How do you feel about it. Some of the comments were polite some were Joey from Friends type comments and there was some blatant harassment.?

had she been with a man she would have got probably no comments and i would think because men are bigger and stronger than women they comment because they can and they fear no come back.

[waterhog]

i saw this - this was on the wrightsuff a few days back i think. it looks very frightening for the lady and seems horrid they have to take so much abuse. if the men were more polite and less threatening it would have made it a bit better but no lady should have to take that. i can see the point that woman sometimes ware things that are not appropriate but we are a free society.

my conclusion - more work on the men that feel they have to do this.

[coffee]

This is dumb but I actually cried watching this lol. Some people are so disgusting and I think everything it shows in the video was sexual harassment. People don't normally go out especially to find someone to talk to so why do random men feel the need to come and talk to women who are trying to go about their business? They wouldn't do it to other guys so why to women? Where I stay just now I go through what this woman does almost every day and it's ****ing sick. I honestly got to the point where I don't want to try look nice leaving the house anymore. I don't do my hair and make-up the way I would want to unless I'm leaving this town I'm in away from all the hideous perverts. I know it's stupid and I should be dressing how I want to but I honestly feel like I can't because I have creepy guys following me to my building main door sometimes telling me to "smile" or saying "I love you my sweet darling come can I come in?" I have had it from guys of all ages. The worst are the ones similar to my age, who I have actually been physically grabbed and had to push off of me and tried to slam my door closed because this evil perverted guy was trying to push it open and get into my building! I don't know if it's just the area I live in because back in Glasgow it's not as extreme as it is in Morden (where I am now) but I honestly fear for my life just walking the streets and having some random guy say "how are you?" as he walks by me. Because why is she asking? Why does he care? He doesn't know me and I don't know him so don't talk to me I didn't leave my house to talk to anybody but the maybe the shop keeper who will be selling me my milk in the morning and I don't even wanna talk to that person either. I feel like this post is messy but talking about sexual harassment melts my brain I have had so many horrifying encounters of it just like many other women and people just think "haha, boys will be boys LOL!" no... **** off.

[MTVN]

It is quite bad and there were some people being very creepy but I think it's a bit misleading to say it was 108 cases of harassment, are people saying "what's up beautiful, have a good day", "how are you this morning" and "have a nice evening" really harassing her?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It seems from the video that most of the comments came from black or brown skinned people?

perhaps that is because of the areas walked or perhaps of the way the woman looked?

[coffee]

http://www.bustle.com/articles/46527-6-things-you-might-not-think-are-harassment-but-definitely-are-because-apparently-we-need-to

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.bustle.com/articles/46527-6-things-you-might-not-think-are-harassment-but-definitely-are-because-apparently-we-need-to

a link to a random persons opinion is not really that helpful

[coffee]

If you are female I find it hard to believe that you don't agree with it though. Talking to a woman you don't know in the street is sometimes terrifying for her even if it is just asking about her day.

[Amy Jade]

Some were just being friendly, I'm not denying it's because she's pretty because it likely is...but I don't think the people saying morning/evening were fine. I say hello back if I get spoken to in the street.

The one who followed in silence and the one asking if he was ugly were weird though.

[MTVN]

I dunno, that article seems to draw quite extreme conclusions from relatively innocuous acts like:

Men often think they’re doing you a favor by telling a woman to “smile” in the street. But guess what? A woman can do anything she well pleases with her facial expression, whenever she wants. Women NEVER tell other women to smile in the street. They never tell men to do it either. That’s because there’s an inherent dynamic within our culture that (even subconsciously) makes men believe:

A woman’s autonomy exists only in so far as she is pleasing to male proclivities, at which point…

…as the ultimate owner of the female body, the man is within his rights to dictate to her how she should be conducting herself within it.

Because of this dynamic, being told simply to “smile” is harassment that reinforces this anachronistic power structure, leading women to feel out of control, and potentially in danger.

Seems like over-analytical jargon. As do the conclusions from an appearance based compliment:

Her worth is only valued at her ability to adhere to rigid, culturally imposed beauty standards.

She is an object and therefore cannot reasonably be expected to be treated with the respect of a full human.

The man “complimenting” her feels entitled to look at her, judge how she looks, force that judgment onto her, forcing her to internalize his view of herself.

And if he feels entitled to her in those ways, where does it stop? Where is the line of entitlement drawn? Maybe that’s as far as it goes with this one person. But how does the woman know? How does she know that he doesn’t feel equally entitled to have sex with her or beat her or kill her, as some men do feel entitled to do to women? The point is: She does not know. And that is why it is threatening.

Makes out that the natural reaction to being told you're beautiful is to fear that you're going to be raped or murdered. Kinda depressing.

[Kyle]

Talking to a woman you don't know in the street is sometimes terrifying for her even if it is just asking about her day.

I talk to anyone I don't know in the street, it's called being nice. If I say hi to a woman I walk past or make a joke at a bus stop about the bus not turning up and she decides in her head that I'm going to ravish her in the bushes it's her problem not mine.

[coffee]

But who wants to be told by strangers that they're beautiful? I want my friends, family and boy/girlfriend to tell me I'm beautiful not someone I don't know what his intentions really are. Thats all just my opinion anyway.

[coffee]

I talk to anyone I don't know in the street, it's called being nice. If I say hi to a woman I walk past or make a joke at a bus stop about the bus not turning up and she decides in her head that I'm going to ravish her in the bushes it's her problem not mine.

Well if you don't have that rapey look in your eyes or voice and keep your distance you will mostly get a reply obviously. You can just tell when someone is being dodgy.

[Kyle]

Well if you don't have that rapey look in your eyes or voice and keep your distance you will mostly get a reply obviously. You can just tell when someone is being dodgy.

Maybe you want to change your original statement then to "talking to a woman on the street is sometimes terrifying for her when you are a hulking rapist lookalike even if it's just asking her about her day."

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am sure if an attractive man (to the woman concerned) paid her a compliment that would be acceptable but if some fat fecker said it it would not

[Niamh.]

There is a difference between striking up a conversation with someone as you stand at a bus stop and shouting things at someone as they're walking by, going about their business

[coffee]

I am sure if an attractive man (to the woman concerned) paid her a compliment that would be acceptable but if some fat fecker said it it would not

Attractive or not, if he gets too close or uses creepy bedroom eyes/voice then it's not okay. :nono:

[Kyle]

There is a difference between striking up a conversation with someone as you stand at a bus stop and shouting things at someone as they're walking by, going about their business

Did you see the statement I quoted or have you just assumed I was talking about the people in the video?

[Niamh.]

Did you see the statement I quoted or have you just assumed I was talking about the people in the video?

Yes I did, I was giving my opinion on what you said about talking to people at bus stops etc though

[arista]

Yes been debated all over TV News
here and America
the Git that walks with her
is the problem

[Amy Jade]

I know girls who suck guys off in bus stops so striking up an innocent convo is tame tbh.

[Niamh.]

Yes been debated all over TV News
here and America
the Git that walks with her
is the problem

Yeah, that was very creepy and intimidating

[arista]

I know girls who suck guys off in bus stops so striking up an innocent convo is tame tbh.



Do they make good Money?

[Niamh.]

:umm2:

[user104658]

A male model recreated this video and got just as many comments etc. as the girl in this video did (things like "Hey there, big guy!", "wow, that guys really hot!", one girl chasing after him to ask if "her friend" can have his number.

Is it harrassment? Maybe, but that's a different debate. It is clear, however, that if it is a problem, its a problem across the board and NOT a "feminist issue". Just another issue that's been hijacked.

I mean... The other day I read through an entire feminist article about unrealistic portrayals of the female body in Disney films and how that makes women and girls feel about their normal bodies. This had all the usual "patriarchy", "making women ideal", boohoo nonsense that all of these articles do. Not a mention of men, at all. Furthermore, it focused HEAVILY on Belle in beauty and the beast in her ball gown and her tiny waist.

Ahem...

Gaston, the villain:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142124/4004792-2051914099-gasto.jpg


:facepalm:. Yeah... And it's the unrealistic expectations of the female form that are the main problem.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i feel i need to get a perspective from

The Truth

[Brother Leon]

Have a good evening people. :)

[Ninastar]

this whole experiment has only had such a crazy reaction because people believe EVERYTHING they read on the internet...

"You look nice today, Ms"

SEXUAL HARRASMENT!!! CANT YOU SEE HOW MEN THINK THEY CAN TREAT WOMEN LIKE A PIECE OF CRAP!!??? SOCIETY HATEs WOMEN!!!

Yes, you get the odd creeps who say the strange and weird thing... but that has nothing to do with men thinking they r betta then women...

[Creggle]

A male model recreated this video and got just as many comments etc. as the girl in this video did (things like "Hey there, big guy!", "wow, that guys really hot!", one girl chasing after him to ask if "her friend" can have his number.

Is it harrassment? Maybe, but that's a different debate. It is clear, however, that if it is a problem, its a problem across the board and NOT a "feminist issue". Just another issue that's been hijacked.

I mean... The other day I read through an entire feminist article about unrealistic portrayals of the female body in Disney films and how that makes women and girls feel about their normal bodies. This had all the usual "patriarchy", "making women ideal", boohoo nonsense that all of these articles do. Not a mention of men, at all. Furthermore, it focused HEAVILY on Belle in beauty and the beast in her ball gown and her tiny waist.

Ahem...

Gaston, the villain:

[img] http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142124/4004792-2051914099-gasto.jpg[/im


:facepalm:. Yeah... And it's the unrealistic expectations of the female form that are the main problem.

A godlike post tbh :clap2:

Have to agree with the hijacking of issues by 'feminists' that aren't much different for men. When you're striving for solidarity and strength in a gender, it isn't the best idea to try and stamp out 'issues' they have that men do to, because it just makes women look weak. :worry:

Also, the majority of the stuff in that video is far far far from harassment, with the exception of one or two guys. Most of them were polite and you'd have to have personal issues, male or female, if compliments from strangers in these sort of situations made you feel awkward. I bet the woman in the video was pretty :flutter: inside from alot of the comments tbh. :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

What Toy Soldier said.He pretty much nailed it.Look at all the aftershave ads with ripped 6 packs everywhere,Women comment on men in the street all the time.It's 'a problem across the board' and 'NOT a femenist issue' as TS said.A human problem not a femenist problem.Imo.

[lily.]

It is quite bad and there were some people being very creepy but I think it's a bit misleading to say it was 108 cases of harassment, are people saying "what's up beautiful, have a good day", "how are you this morning" and "have a nice evening" really harassing her?

I agree.

I talk to anyone I don't know in the street, it's called being nice. If I say hi to a woman I walk past or make a joke at a bus stop about the bus not turning up and she decides in her head that I'm going to ravish her in the bushes it's her problem not mine.

I talk to people all the time. Guys talk to me all the time. I don't take it as sexual harassment in the slightest.

[Shaun]

I mean... The other day I read through an entire feminist article about unrealistic portrayals of the female body in Disney films and how that makes women and girls feel about their normal bodies. This had all the usual "patriarchy", "making women ideal", boohoo nonsense that all of these articles do. Not a mention of men, at all. Furthermore, it focused HEAVILY on Belle in beauty and the beast in her ball gown and her tiny waist.

Ahem...

Gaston, the villain:

[obnoxiously massive picture here]

:facepalm:. Yeah... And it's the unrealistic expectations of the female form that are the main problem.

He's the villain... in what way is he therefore an ideal for men?

If anything you've chosen the worst possible example since the hero is the Beast, a character designed to be loveable in spite of his appearance :laugh: I could understand if you pointed out the ridiculous abs&pecs of Batman/Superman/Captain America etc :p

[Creggle]

.A human problem not a femenist problem.Imo.

Aren't they the same thing though? Very few feminists have any sort of agenda other than 'women should be sacred and treated better than men' hence why crap like this is floating around the internet.

[Northern Monkey]

Aren't they the same thing though? Very few feminists have any sort of agenda other than 'women should be sacred and treated better than men' hence why crap like this is floating around the internet.

Personally i don't see complementing another person as a problem at all.What i was saying is that if it is a problem then it's a problem that women and men face,Not just women.The femenists who think that it is an issue to be complemented seem to believe that it only happens to women.

[Creggle]

Personally i don't see complementing another person as a problem at all.What i was saying is that if it is a problem then it's a problem that women and men face,Not just women.

I know I was agreeing with you :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I know I was agreeing with you :laugh:

:laugh:

[Ammi]

A male model recreated this video and got just as many comments etc. as the girl in this video did (things like "Hey there, big guy!", "wow, that guys really hot!", one girl chasing after him to ask if "her friend" can have his number.

Is it harrassment? Maybe, but that's a different debate. It is clear, however, that if it is a problem, its a problem across the board and NOT a "feminist issue". Just another issue that's been hijacked.

I mean... The other day I read through an entire feminist article about unrealistic portrayals of the female body in Disney films and how that makes women and girls feel about their normal bodies. This had all the usual "patriarchy", "making women ideal", boohoo nonsense that all of these articles do. Not a mention of men, at all. Furthermore, it focused HEAVILY on Belle in beauty and the beast in her ball gown and her tiny waist.

Ahem...

Gaston, the villain:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142124/4004792-2051914099-gasto.jpg


:facepalm:. Yeah... And it's the unrealistic expectations of the female form that are the main problem.

..I was just about to post the same, I saw that vid as well and I don't think this is a typical female thing but something that can be experienced by both sexes..

[kirklancaster]

I know girls who suck guys off in bus stops so striking up an innocent convo is tame tbh.

Disgusting! Filthy. Outrageous. Shameful. Vile. Immoral......

Er.... You don't happen to have these girls' phone numbers do you StupidHoe? I have several buses to catch next week....:hehe:

[user104658]

He's the villain... in what way is he therefore an ideal for men?

If anything you've chosen the worst possible example since the hero is the Beast, a character designed to be loveable in spite of his appearance :laugh: I could understand if you pointed out the ridiculous abs&pecs of Batman/Superman/Captain America etc :p
It's about physique, doesn't really matter that he's the villain. The Beast in human form is also square jawed and well built and that's a common theme in Disney "princes" and heroes... Tiny lower body, ridiculously wide shoulders and huge arms, chiselled features and jaw. You're right about comic book heroes but I don't think it's quite as much of a problem (for males or females) when the characters are "superpowered", like Captain America or Wolverine, or Superman at the extreme end. There's a reality disconnect there as they're not "supposed to be normal humans", whereas a lot of these other characters - although being cartoons - are nonetheless still just 'people".

Also, as mentioned above, just take a look at male underwear models / aftershave adverts / clothing catalogues and tell me that men in comparison to women aren't objectified, or that males are handed realistic expectations of what their bodies should look like in order to get the ladies all hot and bothered.

There's a massive double standard here, and it's not to the detriment of women.

I'm a straight white male. As far as the Internet is concerned - I am the Devil incarnate, free game for mocking, accusing and criticising... And woe betide me should I dare (from my apparent positiin of privilege) to complain about it. That's the elephant in the room when it comes to discussing the various "- isms" .

[thesheriff443]

Disgusting! Filthy. Outrageous. Shameful. Vile. Immoral......

Er.... You don't happen to have these girls' phone numbers do you StupidHoe? I have several buses to catch next week....:hehe:

you will catch more than a bus:hehe:

[thesheriff443]

Yes I did, I was giving my opinion on what you said about talking to people at bus stops etc though

niamh post's in the thread.

hey sexy:hehe:, (niamh smiles) cant argue with the truth!:laugh:

[kirklancaster]

you will catch more than a bus:hehe:

:joker::joker::joker:

I will use protection - I will take Carl Froch and David Haye along.:hehe:

[kirklancaster]

this whole experiment has only had such a crazy reaction because people believe EVERYTHING they read on the internet...

"You look nice today, Ms"

SEXUAL HARRASMENT!!! CANT YOU SEE HOW MEN THINK THEY CAN TREAT WOMEN LIKE A PIECE OF CRAP!!??? SOCIETY HATEs WOMEN!!!

Yes, you get the odd creeps who say the strange and weird thing... but that has nothing to do with men thinking they r betta then women...

You are right. It's got nothing to do with men thinking they're better than woman - this, like a lot of other deductions in the article could not be more wrong.

The ‘handshake’ is a universally recognised act of cordiality, friendship, sincerity, and numerous other ‘positives’, and is a custom dating back as far as 6,000 BC.

Despite these positives, however, the origins of the handshake did not originate among ‘friends’ - as would seem logical – but between ‘strangers’.

In ancient times, whenever two strangers approached each other on say, a lonely road, each would do so with paranoia, fear, suspicion that the other may attack. Because of this fear, they would often have hands on swords ready to draw them, and would give each other a wide berth until they’d passed.

Over time, strangers in such a situation began to hold out their right arms – away from their swords to show that they had no harmful intent to draw them. This practice developed into a fleeting handshake as two strangers passed each other, then into the firm deliberate handshakes we use now.

In this crazy, fecked up modern world, strangers are just as paranoid, fearful and suspicious of each other – if not more so. Yes, I know there are pscho’s out there, but it’s not encounters on lonely country lanes where someone could be forgiven for feeling apprehensive, which I’m referring to here – I’m talking about ordinary people in general.

Just watch people of all ages walking past each other on the street – heads down, or staring straight ahead with frowns on their faces. Watch them in bus queues or better still, in crowded doctor’s waiting rooms, where they all sit in self-conscious silence, staring down at the floor, up at the ceiling – anywhere but at each other. Even waiting couples irrationally talk to each other in embarrassed whispers.

Well Kyle is correct. A warm smile, a friendly comment or cheery remark whilst passing strangers is nothing more than an unconscious ‘disarming’ tactic – the modern day equivalent of the ‘open hand, arm away from sword’ ‘I mean you no harm’ gesture of ancient times.

The manner in which different people react to such cordial greetings/comments actually says more about them than the person making these innocuous remarks, because such remarks are often met with ignorant stony silence or even hostile looks.

I will stress again, that I am not referring to the boorish catcalling by yobbo cretins or nut-jack 'stalkers', but to normal innocuous greetings or comments by normal people.

If a normal man tells a passing woman she is beautiful - then I feel she ought to accept the compliment without whipping out her copy of 'Freud's Theories On Psychoanalysis' or suspecting sinister motives. Similarly, if some guy (or woman) starts a conversation with someone in a queue while waiting at a bus stop, it doesn't mean he's a crank.

When a beautiful woman tells me that I'm still devilishly handsome (and they do) I don't suspect ulterior motives....


...............I just pat her guide dog and thank her. :hehe::hehe::hehe:

[JoshBB]

@Toy Soldier,

feminism
ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

I put emphasis on the equality of sexes. So it would be a feminist issue as well..

[Kizzy]

A male model recreated this video and got just as many comments etc. as the girl in this video did (things like "Hey there, big guy!", "wow, that guys really hot!", one girl chasing after him to ask if "her friend" can have his number.

Is it harrassment? Maybe, but that's a different debate. It is clear, however, that if it is a problem, its a problem across the board and NOT a "feminist issue". Just another issue that's been hijacked.

I mean... The other day I read through an entire feminist article about unrealistic portrayals of the female body in Disney films and how that makes women and girls feel about their normal bodies. This had all the usual "patriarchy", "making women ideal", boohoo nonsense that all of these articles do. Not a mention of men, at all. Furthermore, it focused HEAVILY on Belle in beauty and the beast in her ball gown and her tiny waist.

Ahem...

Gaston, the villain:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142124/4004792-2051914099-gasto.jpg


:facepalm:. Yeah... And it's the unrealistic expectations of the female form that are the main problem.

Gaston is not the ideal in fact I see him as the modern day 'sted head' thick, arrogant an artificially pumped up narcissist.

[user104658]

@Toy Soldier,



I put emphasis on the equality of sexes. So it would be a feminist issue as well..
The dictionary definition of feminism and the realities of feminist activism are worlds apart. A huge number of modern feminists, and a large amount of modern feminist activity, is centred around the stereotyping and often vilification of males. This can be either blatant - some feminist movements are proudly proclaiming that women should "rule the world" - or just inherent.

Take the "all about the bass" song, for example. It's hailed as a positive message about body image, a feminist message etc... But then there's this line:

"boys like a little more booty to hold at nightttt"

Err, do we? Do all boys like a little more booty? Who is she to tell us what we do and don't like, exactly? If a man was singing a song and included lines about what all women like / want wouldn't not be considered by many to be arrogantly misogynistic?

There is a double standard in modern feminism that has nothing to do with the dictionary definition, and certainly nothing to do with equality. There is an element (a large element) that is firmly focused on female supremacy, and that element is no better than any patriarchy.

[user104658]

Gaston is not the ideal in fact I see him as the modern day 'sted head' thick, arrogant an artificially pumped up narcissist.
Gaston is a dick, we can all agree on that, but my point was purely based on the physical distortions of what is actually possible. A lot of people were focussing on the fact that belle's waist in some scenes is smaller than her head and promotes distorted body image. I'm merely pointing out that, in the same way, gaston is indeed roughly the size of a barge, with literally impossible body proportions that promote exactly the same distorted body image for men. Moving away from that - all Disney men are not only well built / ripped (like alladin, smaller, but with washboard abs on display) but usually either impossibly charming or rich to boot.

Take Frozen, for example... Kristoff was widely applauded for being a more "realistic" love interest but, let's face it, the guy is still pretty hench, lugging around ice blocks and rock trolls. Next to Anna, he's still built like a brick ****house.

... I know far too much Disney. Can you tell I have two girls? Haha...

[Vicky.]

Wouldnt say this was harrasment at all tbh. But the guy following her and the 'am i ugly' guy were utter creeps :umm2:

I noticed a lot of the comments were made BECAUSE she just blanked the original comment too..

[swinearefine]

This thread makes me sad, more outrage @ this sexism please. It was misogynistic harassment, and people thinking it isn't only solidify the misogyny. It has nothing to do even do with the content of the messages, it is the fact that society allows men the belief that they have the right to ogle women in public, that women in public are open to men's views and desires, and that when women react negatively to this uninvited harassment they are bitches. The woman who made this video had closed-off body behavior which should make it clear to anyone with a brain that she isn't in the mood for this ****. And lmao @ people whining about men receiving similar treatment, bull****. People like to make things tit-for-tat, finding a way to turn sexism targeted at women into sexism targeted at men no matter the facts. I walked around the streets of downtown Manhattan for hours and hours (got lost oops) and looked FANTASTIC, like, I really had it going on that day, got zero catcalls from women or gay men. Meanwhile my aging mother in boring work clothes gets catcalled on the reg in a rural town of ~8,000 people when she walks down main street. And whether a catcall is deemed "creepy" or "complimentary," it is all creepy because it's patriarchal objectification of women. And this woman has got rape threats and so much sexist vitriol from this which just proves her point even more.

[Brother Leon]

Calling someone beautiful or asking how their evening is has now now become sexual harassment. If they were forcing her to give her number or touching her up then yeah, but that's just being nice to a woman you happen to find attractive. There were a couple weird dudes though.

Anyway, it says it all when they recorded for 10 hours and this was the footage they could get.

[Kizzy]

This was over 10 hours... if you are good looking then obviously someone is going to pass comment, I don't see the prob. The guy following her for 5 mins was different that was freaky :/

[swinearefine]

This was over 10 hours... if you are good looking then obviously someone is going to pass comment, I don't see the prob. The guy following her for 5 mins was different that was freaky :/

The problem. It isn't obvious, it's a learned behavior for men to invade women's personal space because they have the audacity to be in public or worse be in public and be attractive. We need to teach boys more respect for women and women more respect for themselves, this is totally unacceptable and the fact that most people are so nonchalant or even aggressively misogynistic about it is so telling about society. It may not seem like a huge deal to have men catcalling women but it shows that women in public spaces are there for men's viewing pleasure when they actually just have places to go and **** to do? This attitude contributes to rape culture and cannot be tolerated.

[user104658]

This thread makes me sad, more outrage @ this sexism please. It was misogynistic harassment, and people thinking it isn't only solidify the misogyny. It has nothing to do even do with the content of the messages, it is the fact that society allows men the belief that they have the right to ogle women in public, that women in public are open to men's views and desires, and that when women react negatively to this uninvited harassment they are bitches. The woman who made this video had closed-off body behavior which should make it clear to anyone with a brain that she isn't in the mood for this ****. And lmao @ people whining about men receiving similar treatment, bull****. People like to make things tit-for-tat, finding a way to turn sexism targeted at women into sexism targeted at men no matter the facts. I walked around the streets of downtown Manhattan for hours and hours (got lost oops) and looked FANTASTIC, like, I really had it going on that day, got zero catcalls from women or gay men. Meanwhile my aging mother in boring work clothes gets catcalled on the reg in a rural town of ~8,000 people when she walks down main street. And whether a catcall is deemed "creepy" or "complimentary," it is all creepy because it's patriarchal objectification of women. And this woman has got rape threats and so much sexist vitriol from this which just proves her point even more.
If you don't see that women (and the media) also objectify men, and fairly frequently, then you are part of the problem. Not the solution. The question that needs asking is, is it OK for a person - any person - to be objectified without consent. Which set of genitals someone happens to have is, or should be, completely irrelevant. THAT is equality.

[user104658]

The problem. It isn't obvious, it's a learned behavior for men to invade women's personal space because they have the audacity to be in public or worse be in public and be attractive. We need to teach boys more respect for women and women more respect for themselves, this is totally unacceptable and the fact that most people are so nonchalant or even aggressively misogynistic about it is so telling about society. It may not seem like a huge deal to have men catcalling women but it shows that women in public spaces are there for men's viewing pleasure when they actually just have places to go and **** to do? This attitude contributes to rape culture and cannot be tolerated.
When I was a student I literally can't tell you how many times I had girls that I didn't know grope my arse while I was stood ordering a drink at the bar. On one occasion, a completely random girl had two of her friends grab me and hold my arms while she stuck her tongue in my face.

If that happened to a girl... Well. Just saying.

Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen?

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

nice tits love

[swinearefine]

There are obviously problems that men face, but they do not compare to women's. I never said that men didn't face problems because of their sex, as I face PLENTY of discrimination as a male who doesn't conform to gender roles and yadda yadda. But good job exemplifying my point about men always making misogyny somehow about male oppression. Because I pointed out the blatant sexism this woman experienced, all of a sudden I'm discounting men's experiences? And lmao at me possibly being part of the problem of sexism directed against anyone, thank **** I exist to help point out this bull****.

[Liam-]

There are obviously problems that men face, but they do not compare to women's. I never said that men didn't face problems because of their sex, as I face PLENTY of discrimination as a male who doesn't conform to gender roles and yadda yadda. But good job exemplifying my point about men always making misogyny somehow about male oppression. Because I pointed out the blatant sexism this woman experienced, all of a sudden I'm discounting men's experiences? And lmao at me possibly being part of the problem of sexism directed against anyone, thank **** I exist to help point out this bull****.

Complete bollocks.

What makes the sexual harassment of women more serious than the sexual harassment of men? what a ridiculous thing to say.

[user104658]

And lmao at me possibly being part of the problem of sexism directed against anyone, thank **** I exist to help point out this bull****.

" There are obviously problems that men face, but they do not compare to women's"

You are indeed sexist. Sorry.

[thesheriff443]

nice tits love

i bet you hear this all the time:hehe:

[swinearefine]

Complete bollocks.

What makes the sexual harassment of women more serious than the sexual harassment of men? what a ridiculous thing to say.

I never said that it didn't. When men and women are sexually assaulted it is obviously equally heinous. The point is that women face a much higher risk of sexual assault and are often blamed for dressing or acting provocatively while the boys will be boys excuse is applied to the perpetrators. Rape culture as a whole is a much greater threat to women than it is to men, and if you can't accept that you're not living in reality. Even from school age on rape culture is ingrained in children (at least here in America) where girls are banned from wearing revealing clothing like shorts and skirts or even showing bra straps, because boys just can't help but be distracted by these seductresses :rolleyes: we are taught that women in public places are objects for men's attentions which is a big reason why we have rampant sex crimes against women... it is what everyone is taught since school!

[swinearefine]

" There are obviously problems that men face, but they do not compare to women's"

You are indeed sexist. Sorry.

You are indeed ignorant of the world in which you live. Wake the **** up.

[lostalex]

If gay men did this to straight men everyday, if gay men harassed straight men the way that straight men harass women, all gay men would be rounded up and put into concentration camps.

I'm not saying all straight men should be put in concentration camps, but i would understand why if they were.

Think about all the straight guys that are paranoid about gay men in locker rooms, omg, they might look at me!!, meanwhile straight men are doing this to women everyday out on the streets. hypocrites.

[swinearefine]

I'm not saying all straight men should be put in concentration camps, but i would understand why if they were.

Yeah I would prob support that

[lostalex]

When I was a student I literally can't tell you how many times I had girls that I didn't know grope my arse while I was stood ordering a drink at the bar. On one occasion, a completely random girl had two of her friends grab me and hold my arms while she stuck her tongue in my face.

If that happened to a girl... Well. Just saying.

Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen?

what do you mean IF it happened to a girl?

It happens to girls hundreds of times per day in this world. the difference is how threatened did you actually feel? how much terror? and did you actually feel that you were in real danger ever? no, so it's not comparable.

Stop comparing your tiny pea nuts to apples.

[swinearefine]

what do you mean IF it happened to a girl? It happens to girls hundreds of times per day in this world. the difference is how threatened did you actually fell? how much terror? and did you actually feel that you were in real danger ever? no, so it's not comparable. stop comparing your tiny pea nuts to apples.

I wouldn't discount their experience based on their gender, that's just as wrong as minimizing sex crimes against anyone. Overall women are in much greater danger of sexual assault and are in a male-dominated culture with a lot of men that feel entitled to gawk at and objectify women (catcalling just being one example of this.) But that doesn't mean that when it does happen to men it is less threatening or traumatic.

[Kizzy]

what do you mean IF it happened to a girl?

It happens to girls hundreds of times per day in this world. the difference is how threatened did you actually feel? how much terror? and did you actually feel that you were in real danger ever? no, so it's not comparable.

Stop comparing your tiny pea nuts to apples.

That's a fair point.

[user104658]

You are indeed ignorant of the world in which you live. Wake the **** up.
And I would counter that you clearly have absolutely no concept of the forces in this world that truly fire the neo-feminist movement or their motivations, and just how little those forces care about everyday women, or men, or any hint of equality of any kind.

If I am asleep, you are blind, deaf, dumb and comatose. "wake up", indeed. You've barely even escaped the womb :facepalm:.

[user104658]

what do you mean IF it happened to a girl?

It happens to girls hundreds of times per day in this world. the difference is how threatened did you actually feel? how much terror? and did you actually feel that you were in real danger ever? no, so it's not comparable.

Stop comparing your tiny pea nuts to apples.
That it happens to women plenty was entirely my point. Perhaps I should have said "when" rather than "if" - my point being, WHEN it happens to women, people are horrified and I have no doubt any male perpetrators would be swiftly ejected from most clubs. When it happens to men, people find it cute / hilarious.

I can't say I'm bothered by people touching my arse but the latter incident was fairly unpleasant. I have recently, within the last year or so, been diagnosed with low-level asbergers and in my teens that essentially manifested as moderate social anxiety that I was VERY good at hiding behind a mask of false confidence / cool headedness. I laughed and joked all night with my friends about being face-raped. In reality it set off my social anxiety massively and I was indeed quite shaken.

But that's not "manly", is it? No no. Men don't mind random girls all over them. We love it, don't we? Because we're manly men who are brave and hypersexual! Arrrrr.


... And holding these beliefs are what makes you sexist. Against men. And me, as a teenager, playing along and pretending that it didn't bother me is what made me oppressed. Men are oppressed too. Men are handed sexist expectation, of ruggedness, of manliness, of bravery, by the bucketload every day. They are different sorts of expectations to those placed on women but anyone who believes it's all plain sailing is utterly blind.

Here's a conundrum for you: half of the men catcalling women on the street wouldn't be doing it if they weren't trying to impress their buddies or make them laugh / "for banter". Men (men of lower intelligence, to be blunt) feel like they are expected to do these things because of the sexist gender roles APPLIED TO THEM by the same society that simultaneously oppresses women and encourages militant feminism.

Ask yourself why. Ask yourself what happens to the entities that manipulate us en masse through their controlled media if we were all to ACTUALLY Unite under a banner of true equality. Ask yourself why they ****ing want us all at each other's throats distracted by petty pop-feminism.

Then you might truly wake up.

[Marsh.]

How dare that bastard say "Good morning". :fist: Sexist pig!

[swinearefine]

-gives up on society-

[Marsh.]

-gives up on society-

That's sexist! :mad:

[user104658]

Here's another fun fact: when polled with the question "have you ever been abused by a partner", hardly any men said yes, whereas several women said yes.

When the question is changed to "have you ever been struck by a partner hard enough to bruise or draw blood" the results are basically 50/50.

Men are under societal pressure not to admit to or report domestic abuse, even though it is a huge problem, because of the stigma that admitting that (even to themselves) would cause.

Most men also report being too scared to fight back or even properly defend themselves because of how that might be perceived.


Ignoring issues like these completely destroys any hope of true equality. Something that I genuinely believe in, by the way. Men and women are indeed unequal in many ways - to the benefit and detriment of both in different circumstances. That is what needs to be addressed. And that is why I despise the modern feminist movement and fully believe that all it will ever achieve is gender division and further inequalities.

[Ninastar]

Brilliantly said, TS...

[Tom4784]

If Fedoras had a smell this topic would reek of them.

Women are a lot more likely to suffer a sexual attack in their lifetimes then men which can make these catcalls a lot more intimidating for them. Granted most of them are innocent but it's still could be intimidating for the person involved. Victims of rape are often vilified too and are forced to fight for justice and, when they do seek justice, they'll be put on trial just as much as their rapist. When you look at pretty much all walks of life, women have it harder then men, women are often villainised while men are glorified for the same actions.

People who spout crap like 'lol women's rights WHAT ABOUT MEN'S RIGHTS?!' remind me very much of people in America who say 'If there's a black history month then why isn't there a white history month?' It's ignorant and self-entitled. As men, we are are lucky because we'll never have to deal with half the **** a woman has to deal with in their lifetimes.

[lily.]

Interesting reading through the opinions in this thread so far. I'm of the same opinion at TS .

[Kizzy]

Here's another fun fact: when polled with the question "have you ever been abused by a partner", hardly any men said yes, whereas several women said yes.

When the question is changed to "have you ever been struck by a partner hard enough to bruise or draw blood" the results are basically 50/50.

Men are under societal pressure not to admit to or report domestic abuse, even though it is a huge problem, because of the stigma that admitting that (even to themselves) would cause.

Most men also report being too scared to fight back or even properly defend themselves because of how that might be perceived.


Ignoring issues like these completely destroys any hope of true equality. Something that I genuinely believe in, by the way. Men and women are indeed unequal in many ways - to the benefit and detriment of both in different circumstances. That is what needs to be addressed. And that is why I despise the modern feminist movement and fully believe that all it will ever achieve is gender division and further inequalities.

Where was this 'fun fact' obtained?

This discussion has nothing to do with abusive relationships and is an entirely different debate. I see the tenuous link in which you suggest women are entirely capable of harassment and or abuse and yes they are, it's the pecentages involved that are different.
It's not even a question of public perception as it's not socially acceptable for women to cat call men either in the main it's seen as rather cheap and brazen.
Men's physique is shown in a different way to womens too, whereas women are sexualised men are shown as being good specimens of manhood, broad shoulders, defined muscles that are attractive as they would be considered a good mate in a primitive sense.

[Liam-]

I can't even deal with some of the **** i have read in this thread.. i should have stopped reading when i saw Alex join in and mention concentration camps for straight men, why do i do this to myself?

[lily.]

lol Liam... sometimes you have to just step away from the thread and count to ten... Trust me, I've been doing this since 2005 :thumbs:

[Liam-]

lol Liam... sometimes you have to just step away from the thread and count to ten... Trust me, I've been doing this since 2005 :thumbs:

It's just ridiculous, in one breath equality is the main goal and in the next, mens worries or dangers are less than that of a woman, it's ridiculous and frankly, insulting.

[Northern Monkey]

TS for PM TBH

[Kizzy]

It's just ridiculous, in one breath equality is the main goal and in the next, mens worries or dangers are less than that of a woman, it's ridiculous and frankly, insulting.

Men are in danger for some crimes less than women statistically, that is one good reason it's not intended to be insulting.
Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be equality.

[lily.]

It's just ridiculous, in one breath equality is the main goal and in the next, mens worries or dangers are less than that of a woman, it's ridiculous and frankly, insulting.

Men and women will never be equal any more than cats and dogs will be equal, but it is wrong for people to think that it is okay to treat men a certain way but not okay to treat women the same way.

[kirklancaster]

Complete bollocks.



1000% corect Liam - 'Complete bollocks' - that is the difference between Men and Women. :hehe:

[Ninastar]

Men and women will never be equal any more than cats and dogs will be equal, but it is wrong for people to think that it is okay to treat men a certain way but not okay to treat women the same way.

and there we go.

there will never EVER be equality between anyone. Someone will ALWAYS be better off than another. it has absolutely nothing to do with 'society hate BLAH BLAHBLAH', its just life.

[lostalex]

Here's another fun fact: when polled with the question "have you ever been abused by a partner", hardly any men said yes, whereas several women said yes.

When the question is changed to "have you ever been struck by a partner hard enough to bruise or draw blood" the results are basically 50/50.

Men are under societal pressure not to admit to or report domestic abuse, even though it is a huge problem, because of the stigma that admitting that (even to themselves) would cause.

Most men also report being too scared to fight back or even properly defend themselves because of how that might be perceived.


Ignoring issues like these completely destroys any hope of true equality. Something that I genuinely believe in, by the way. Men and women are indeed unequal in many ways - to the benefit and detriment of both in different circumstances. That is what needs to be addressed. And that is why I despise the modern feminist movement and fully believe that all it will ever achieve is gender division and further inequalities.


now since we are so into statistics, let's compare the number of women killed by hetero male partners, vs. the number of men killed by hetero female partners...

Care to share those numbers with us TS?

Let's look at the statistics about who should be afraid of who... *SPOILER ALERT!* ....it's not equal...

[swinearefine]

If Fedoras had a smell this topic would reek of them.

Women are a lot more likely to suffer a sexual attack in their lifetimes then men which can make these catcalls a lot more intimidating for them. Granted most of them are innocent but it's still could be intimidating for the person involved. Victims of rape are often vilified too and are forced to fight for justice and, when they do seek justice, they'll be put on trial just as much as their rapist. When you look at pretty much all walks of life, women have it harder then men, women are often villainised while men are glorified for the same actions.

People who spout crap like 'lol women's rights WHAT ABOUT MEN'S RIGHTS?!' remind me very much of people in America who say 'If there's a black history month then why isn't there a white history month?' It's ignorant and self-entitled. As men, we are are lucky because we'll never have to deal with half the **** a woman has to deal with in their lifetimes.

this :clap1:

[Marsh.]

TS for PM TBH

And Kizzy for PMS. :fan:

[kirklancaster]

And Kizzy for PMS. :fan:

What's PMS?

[Crimson Dynamo]

i would never pass comment on a woman in the street, no gentleman would

[Marsh.]

What's PMS?

:joker:

Premenstrual syndrome. :fan:

[kirklancaster]

:joker:

Premenstrual syndrome. :fan:


Ok. I'm not stupid .... I just ... sometimes... er, ...periodically forget things.
:hehe:

Ok I am stupid - I thought it stood for; Prime Ministers Secretary. :bawling:

But at least there's only us two know I dropped a goolie Marsh - Our little secret eh?:hehe:

[user104658]

Ok. I'm not stupid .... I just ... sometimes... er, ...periodically forget things.
:hehe:

Kirklancaster, with your puns you are really zpoiling us.

#pleased

[kirklancaster]

Kirklancaster, with your puns you are really zpoiling us.

#pleased

Thanks TS.

[lily.]

and there we go.

there will never EVER be equality between anyone. Someone will ALWAYS be better off than another. it has absolutely nothing to do with 'society hate BLAH BLAHBLAH', its just life.

Ever get the feeling you're in the minority though Cait? lol

[Ninastar]

Ever get the feeling you're in the minority though Cait? lol

i am! im in the minority in a few ways, yet i dont give a flying ****... im not going to let it upset me, nor am i going to use it as a sob story

get on with life, ffs people

[lily.]

i am! im in the minority in a few ways, yet i dont give a flying ****... im not going to let it upset me, nor am i going to use it as a sob story

get on with life, ffs people

True dat.

I think people just need something to complain about. It annoys me though, when there are actual serious issues out there to complain about..

[Ninastar]

True dat.

I think people just need something to complain about. It annoys me though, when there are actual serious issues out there to complain about..

yes. exactly. ****ing preach

[lostalex]

True dat.

I think people just need something to complain about. It annoys me though, when there are actual serious issues out there to complain about..

no, people don't just need something to complain about. Many women are actually intimidated and bullied just for walking down the street.

It's not okay.

now smile! smile bitch! SMILe! If you don't smile and pretend to like it then you are a stuck up femiNAZI, and you deserve abuse!

[Livia]

I find a firm "F... off" works quite well.

[Vicky.]

I find a firm "F... off" works quite well.

That tends to be my response to the random 'smile, it might never happen' comments(wehich by the way, I have had from both men and women)

I would never respond like that to someone complimenting me though :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I find a firm "F... off" works quite well.

That just turns some blokes on,They like it when you talk dirty.lol

[Brother Leon]

I find a firm "F... off" works quite well.

Looking beautiful today,Livia.

[Ammi]

..this was the same/similar reactions from females when the did the same experiment with an attractive male, I think he was a model so is it a sexist thing as such or more to do with that person being perceived as attractive..?...and then surely there would be some who would maybe feel complimented and others who would feel uncomfortable ..?..I think though generally that I agree with LT when he said he wouldn't comment because you don't know that person at all so don't know how they would feel about it and anyway, it is an invasion of their privacy and space if they're just walking down a street or something...I mean really if it was the opposite and someone was deemed to be 'unattractive' physically and people/strangers felt they had the right to make negative comments/insults...then that wouldn't be acceptable/we would be saying 'idiots'...so is it any more acceptable because the comments are sometimes 'positive'..I put that in single quotations because it's up to the person receiving them as to whether they feel they're positive....imagine if that wasn't staged though, that guy who followed her for 5 minutes...that was seriously creepy and would have been very scary....

[kirklancaster]

There are some really well thought out, well written, valid posts on here from both sides.

However, I always chat to strangers and when I was younger, used to always pay compliments to pretty girls. I've never had a problem, because I believe that it's not only what you say, but also the way in which you say it.

No intelligent, decent, self-assured woman is going to respond to a "You're worth one love" or a "Nice arse" type of remarks from boorish morons - unless it's with a well deserved 'Livia-style' "FK Off creep" retort, and the less confident type of woman has a right to be, and will be, intimidated by such offensive intrusions.

I do not think though, that on an overcast day, if a man smiles at an approaching pretty girl and says; "Morning beautiful - you've just brightened up my day" - or suchlike - that there is anything wrong with this. It is polite, cheery, inoffensive, and not even 'flirty', and in my opinion should be accepted as such by the recipient of the compliment - invited or not.

I truly believe that a man who is armed with a great sense of humour and can make a woman laugh - I mean really laugh - has a great advantage over other men who haven't such a quality when it comes to captivating women.

Obviously this is not applicable if the guy with the humour has the 'head of a crab and the body of a Social Worker' - to quote Woody Allen (who is a classic case in point - look at the beautiful women he's dated) but generally, I hold with my tenet.

I for one, would not have met some of the memorable loves of my life had I not took the first step and paid such 'uninvited' compliments to 'beautiful strangers'.

Just as with 'street peddlers', 'Big Issue' hawkers and 'Survey Takers' - all of whom make uninvited 'intrusions' into a passer by's 'personal space' - a female recipient of a good natured but 'uninvited' compliment from a smiling male, always has several options open to her, including totally ignoring, rudely retorting, or graciously acknowledging the compliment with a smile.

Insulting and offensive remarks to women by dimwitted sexist morons, or all degrees of persistent following or even 'stalking' by sexually inadequate social misfits, will always occur - whether ordinary males make innocuous compliments to passing women or not.

When I was a child, 'our street' had a character - an ageing ex WW2 seaman - who used to get pissed as a newt every payday and would roll up the cobbled street throwing sweets to all the 'urchin' kids from a huge bag of mixed sweets he'd buy from the corner shop on his way home from his dinnertime session at the local pub. He'd do this because he loved children and had lost his own young son during the war. Today this poor innocent, kind-hearted man would probably be stoned as a paedophile.

Why? Because society is fecked up (thank's for that word Arista). Because of our growing awareness now of the -admitted - existence of paedophilia, we tend to overreact and 'tar everyone with the same brush'.

It is a shame, but this same 'sad reality' is just as existent in the subject under discussion, but just because there are a minority of weirdos and sexist creeps out there, we should not censure normal males who just happen to indulge in the 'time-honoured' tradition of paying passing pretty girls compliments.

As for 'ugly girls', then I say that not only is 'beauty' subjective, but also, that I am as likely to say a cheery "Good Morning" or some other 'ice-breaking' comment to a passing 'non-beautiful' female stranger as I am to a passing beautiful one (or to a male for that matter) but - obviously - I am not going to say: "Morning beautiful" if she looks like Ann Widdicombe and her beard needs trimming, because then she will be offended, because she will think I am taking the piss.

Anyway, while I am not trivialising the very real issue of females being 'accosted' or cat-called by loutish cretins, I make an appeal not to confuse that issue with friendly guys making innocuous compliments or other good-natured remarks -- Sometimes; "good morning beautiful, you have just brightened my day" delivered with a smile, can mean just that, and sometimes, any 'sub-textual' meaning, or 'sinister' undertone, is surely in the mind of the recipient.

[user104658]

I very much agree kirklancaster - the problem here is not men, it's "morons"... and unfortunately, there's a large element of same-brush-tarring.

The problem is that the world is simply full of not-very-intelligent, not-very-civilised people, of both genders. There's a huge element of "monkey see, monkey do" - working class men catcalling because their buddies catcall who do it because their other buddies do it, ad infinitum.

What makes the problem more pronounced with men is that, it's a sad fact of biology, unintelligent men are more likely to think with what's in their pants than unintelligent women. That's not a societal issue, that's simple testosterone level. On that biological level, men and women can simply never be identical. And that's why when seeking "equality", it's foolish to aim for "sameness". We can, and should, be equal in the sense that neither gender is "better" than the other, or favoured in any meaningful way, or has more rights than the other... but we can't ever be equal in the sense of being "the same".

[Kizzy]

So.... by that logic the only men who can pass uninvited comment to a stranger is a good looking intelligent person, whose comments should be accepted without question?

It's not what you say it's how you say it that's the issue here? I'm sorry but I don't feel that was the point of the exercise at all and some have totally missed the point.
By this logic a woman walking through a high class establishment such as a university campus and the harassment she received would be entirely justified.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/cairo-university-blames-sexual-harassment-victim

What about these good looking, young and well educated men?

[kirklancaster]

So.... by that logic the only men who can pass uninvited comment to a stranger is a good looking intelligent person, whose comments should be accepted without question?

Kizzy - I never mentioned good looks or intelligence in the male in my post, nor did I say that his "comments should be accepted without question". Read my post again and you will see this.

It's not what you say it's how you say it that's the issue here? I'm sorry but I don't feel that was the point of the exercise at all and some have totally missed the point.

I really think that you are so intent on reading into the post what you want to see, that it is you who have 'missed the point' of what I was saying. I didn't say that "it was not what you say it's how you say it". I said "it's not only what you say, but also the way in which you say it." Meaning that if what you say is innocuous, cheery and/or complimentary, and is delivered with an engaging smile in a benign, inoffensive manner, then that has a far likelier chance of being met with a smile in return, than does the boorish, sexist remarks of your average neanderthal lout.

By this logic a woman walking through a high class establishment such as a university campus and the harassment she received would be entirely justified.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/cairo-university-blames-sexual-harassment-victim

'Class' has never really had anything to do with genuine manners or consideration for others, and being born into the aristocracy or even Royalty, is no guarantee of either 'good looks' or a charming personality - as any close inspection of our Royal Family or Peerage will confirm - so in this context 'High Class' is a misnomer. Especially since now, kids from all strata of society attend university. Additionally, one cannot be too specific in any post, but has to generalise to a degree.

In any event, I did not state or even intimate that making remarks to passing women should be the prerogative of good looking, intelligent, upper class males and should be 'accepted' without question. Boorish sexist remarks are threatening, uncalled for and constitute harassment, and Ignorant Louts are Ignorant Louts - whether they are called Billy Grimneck from Hull, or Algernon Thaddius Warbuck the Third from Heaton Square, Belgravia, and whether they are catcalling an innocent woman in the 3rd aisle of Netto, or whilst enjoying the contents of a Fortnum and Mason's picnic hamper while laying on the clipped grassy river bank at the Henley Regatta.

I did not defend any type of catcalling or harassment of women, and I did not deny that some women will be intimidated by such boorish behaviour. What I was pointing out in my post, was that it is a categorical overreaction because of this, to 'tar' males who may make -innocuous - comments in a friendly and non threatening manner to passing girls, with the 'same brush'.

Please read my post again and you will see that this is true, and that there was, therefore, no need for your response - which is completely off target - because I was not actually stating any of the things you have reacted to

[user104658]

So.... by that logic the only men who can pass uninvited comment to a stranger is a good looking intelligent person, whose comments should be accepted without question?

Moot point; intelligent, civilized people don't catcall at strangers at all.

Note - people, not men, again, women do it too... it may be less common but that doesn't mean it should simply be overlooked)

It's not what you say it's how you say it that's the issue here? I'm sorry but I don't feel that was the point of the exercise at all and some have totally missed the point.

Not how you say it, but rather the circumstances, surely? I personally don't think there's anything wrong with going up to someone in, say, a cafe if they're on their own / not obviously busy and introducing yourself and seeing if they're interested in talking to you. How else, beyond school / the workplace, is anyone supposed to meet new people without it being contrived? If someone interests you, you should try to talk to them. Who knows how many great opportunities are missed every day because people don't.

I don't think it's even wrong to talk to someone in the street, but the way to do it would be to catch their attention first, say excuse me, or just even give the clear opportunity for them to make small talk, and if they are interested, then they'll stop, if not, then walk on... AFTER they've shown some interest by talking would be the time to offer a compliment, surely. Not to just jump straight in with it. Once you're actually talking to someone I see nothing wrong with compliments and I don't even understand why it's any sort of problem or even has to mean anything, at all, besides being just an observation and a nice thing to say. Telling someone that they have nice eyes, for example, shouldn't have to be a "chat up line"... it's actually really sad that it would always be considered one.

A few weeks ago, a (slightly tipsy, to be fair) elderly gentleman who was at my workplace was telling me that I was a "very handsome lad" and that I "should have been a star of the silver screen!" :joker:. I was quite chuffed, really! It should be NICE for people to say nice things. People should be able to compliment - and take compliments - without it always being construed as something sexual or an indication of attraction. Wouldn't it be a better world?


By this logic a woman walking through a high class establishment such as a university campus and the harassment she received would be entirely justified.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/cairo-university-blames-sexual-harassment-victim

What about these good looking, young and well educated men?

This again I think is slightly irrelevant to the topic, which is modern feminism in the western world. There are obviously huge first and second wave feminist issues in many areas of the world where women genuinely have fewer legal rights and are can often be treated like cattle. Egypt is somewhat better than many, but no one's going to dispute that there are gender equality issues there. Note that well educated doesn't necessarily mean "not pig ignorant". I mean, look at David Cameron...

[Kizzy]

So.... by that logic the only men who can pass uninvited comment to a stranger is a good looking intelligent person, whose comments should be accepted without question?

Kizzy - I never mentioned good looks or intelligence in the male in my post, nor did I say that his "comments should be accepted without question". Read my post again and you will see this.

It's not what you say it's how you say it that's the issue here? I'm sorry but I don't feel that was the point of the exercise at all and some have totally missed the point.

I really think that you are so intent on reading into the post what you want to see, that it is you who have 'missed the point' of what I was saying. I didn't say that "it was not what you say it's how you say it". I said "it's not only what you say, but also the way in which you say it." Meaning that if what you say is innocuous, cheery and/or complimentary, and is delivered with an engaging smile in a benign, inoffensive manner, then that has a far likelier chance of being met with a smile in return, than does the boorish, sexist remarks of your average neanderthal lout.

By this logic a woman walking through a high class establishment such as a university campus and the harassment she received would be entirely justified.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/cairo-university-blames-sexual-harassment-victim

'Class' has never really had anything to do with genuine manners or consideration for others, and being born into the aristocracy or even Royalty, is no guarantee of either 'good looks' or a charming personality - as any close inspection of our Royal Family or Peerage will confirm - so in this context 'High Class' is a misnomer. Especially since now, kids from all strata of society attend university. Additionally, one cannot be too specific in any post, but has to generalise to a degree.

In any event, I did not state or even intimate that making remarks to passing women should be the prerogative of good looking, intelligent, upper class males and should be 'accepted' without question. Boorish sexist remarks are threatening, uncalled for and constitute harassment, and Ignorant Louts are Ignorant Louts - whether they are called Billy Grimneck from Hull, or Algernon Thaddius Warbuck the Third from Heaton Square, Belgravia, and whether they are catcalling an innocent woman in the 3rd aisle of Netto, or whilst enjoying the contents of a Fortnum and Mason's picnic hamper while laying on the clipped grassy river bank at the Henley Regatta.

I did not defend any type of catcalling or harassment of women, and I did not deny that some women will be intimidated by such boorish behaviour. What I was pointing out in my post, was that it is a categorical overreaction because of this, to 'tar' males who may make -innocuous - comments in a friendly and non threatening manner to passing girls, with the 'same brush'.

Please read my post again and you will see that this is true, and that there was, therefore, no need for your response - which is completely off target - because I was not actually stating any of the things you have reacted to

'nor did I say that his "comments should be accepted without question'

'I do not think though, that on an overcast day, if a man smiles at an approaching pretty girl and says; "Morning beautiful - you've just brightened up my day" - or suchlike - that there is anything wrong with this. It is polite, cheery, inoffensive, and not even 'flirty', and in my opinion should be accepted as such by the recipient of the compliment - invited or not.'

With the above quote you are justifying the action, which prompted my comment. And I still feel you missed the point due to the fact it was shown in the video that even innocent 'hellos' and 'good morning beautifuls' were highlighted as unwanted attention.
Whether you feel they are in the same league or have the same connotation is irrelevant.

[Northern Monkey]

Well,Imo,If a woman takes offence to someone saying 'morning beautiful' or similar then it's her problem and she needs to lighten up.

[erinp5]

Just watched this ....

Yvq6pH5Rheg

[Livia]

Well,Imo,If a woman takes offence to someone saying 'morning beautiful' or similar then it's her problem and she needs to lighten up.

Hmmm... I am not offended by compliments but the problem is that once you acknowledge the person giving you a compliment, you've started a dialogue and sometimes that will give people the green flag. So sadly, even nice, well-meant compliments will go unacknowledged by me.

[Marsh.]

Hollywood isn't really the best place to conduct such experiments. Not exactly your average street is it? :laugh:

[erinp5]

Hollywood isn't really the best place to conduct such experiments. Not exactly your average street is it? :laugh:

True .:laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

Hmmm... I am not offended by compliments but the problem is that once you acknowledge the person giving you a compliment, you've started a dialogue and sometimes that will give people the green flag. So sadly, even nice, well-meant compliments will go unacknowledged by me.
True.Atleast it does'nt offend you though like in man hating gender war type of offence.
I've never been one to just complement a woman in the street that i've never met before unless i was drunk tbh.Would'nt even dream of doing it now i'm not a single man anymore,If i did I'd probably think wtf am doing? Afterwards.
Can't see how it would be offensive though.

[GypsyGoth]

Just watched this ....

Yvq6pH5Rheg

That's really scary.

[kirklancaster]

Hmmm... I am not offended by compliments but the problem is that once you acknowledge the person giving you a compliment, you've started a dialogue and sometimes that will give people the green flag. So sadly, even nice, well-meant compliments will go unacknowledged by me.

I love Jewish women - I really do, and although I've never seen you, nor know what you look like, l am drawn to your intellect, style and 'ballsyness'.

There Livia - a few genuine compliments. No need to verbally acknowledge but a fleeting smile wouldn't hurt - would it?:blush:

[kirklancaster]

Well,Imo,If a woman takes offence to someone saying 'morning beautiful' or similar then it's her problem and she needs to lighten up.

Agree.

[Livia]

I love Jewish women - I really do, and although I've never seen you, nor know what you look like, l am drawn to your intellect, style and 'ballsyness'.

There Livia - a few genuine compliments. No need to verbally acknowledge but a fleeting smile wouldn't hurt - would it?:blush:

Why thank you, Kirk. That's very sweet of you to say.

Now don't go following me down the street and assuming we're engaged or anything...

[kirklancaster]

Why thank you, Kirk. That's very sweet of you to say.

Now don't go following me down the street and assuming we're engaged or anything...

:joker:

[lostalex]

Considering the most dangerous place for as woman to be is in her own home, because the number 1 place won,en are most likely to be attacked or raped or murdered is in her own home, keep on talking...

The fact is, Men kill women, Men kill men. but women don't seem to kill women, why is that?

Str8 men are the real problem and we need a system to start controlling men.,

Here's an idea./

If we put all the straight men on an island they would die out! (let's see how long it takes for the trolls to get the irony)

[Livia]

Considering the most dangerous place for as woman to be is in her own home, because the number 1 place won,en are most likely to be attacked or raped or murdered is in her own home, keep on talking...

The fact is, Men kill women, Men kill men. but women don't seem to kill women, why is that?

Str8 men are the real problem and we need a system to start controlling men.,

Here's an idea./

If we put all the straight men on an island they would die out! (let's see how long it takes for the trolls to get the irony)

Alex, look at you... an American doing irony :-) x

I could post you a list of homosexual psychopaths and killers, but the truth is - and don't we all already know this - some people are good and some people are bad. Men can be more violent than women, women can be more sneaky than men. Women are more likely to poison someone, men are more likely to shoot someone. The best we can all do is try to keep ourselves safe and not overreact wildly when someone says "Smile, it might never happen!".

[lostalex]

Alex, look at you... an American doing irony :-) x

I could post you a list of homosexual psychopaths and killers, but the truth is - and don't we all already know this - some people are good and some people are bad. Men can be more violent than women, women can be more sneaky than men. Women are more likely to poison someone, men are more likely to shoot someone. The best we can all do is try to keep ourselves safe and not overreact wildly when someone says "Smile, it might never happen!".

it didn't take long. :)

the point is, women have a right to live in peace, and using the concept that
"some women like getting that kind of of attention" is not good enough.

Most women DONT want that kind of attention, and that fact that we are all animals is not a good enough excuse.

Hetero Men are getting away with rape and murder. Hetero Men are the problem.

[Livia]

(let's see how long it takes for the trolls to get the irony)

it didn't take long. :)




I hope you're not calling me a troll, are you Alex?

Gay men, by percentage, are probably just as bad, and just as good as heterosexual men. People are people. Some are black, some are white, some are gay, some are straight, some are good some are bad.

[lostalex]

I hope you're not calling me a troll, are you Alex?

Gay men, by percentage, are probably just as bad, and just as good as heterosexual men. People are people. Some are black, some are white, some are gay, some are straight, some are good some are bad.

omg!!!! gay men are just like every other human being? shocking!

but who has the power?

[Livia]

omg!!!! gay men are just like every other human being? shocking!

but who has the power?

YOU were saying that heterosexual men are the problem.

Oh, you know what? I give up. It's hard work going round and round in bloody circles.

[Nedusa]

There are some really well thought out, well written, valid posts on here from both sides.

However, I always chat to strangers and when I was younger, used to always pay compliments to pretty girls. I've never had a problem, because I believe that it's not only what you say, but also the way in which you say it.

No intelligent, decent, self-assured woman is going to respond to a "You're worth one love" or a "Nice arse" type of remarks from boorish morons - unless it's with a well deserved 'Livia-style' "FK Off creep" retort, and the less confident type of woman has a right to be, and will be, intimidated by such offensive intrusions.

I do not think though, that on an overcast day, if a man smiles at an approaching pretty girl and says; "Morning beautiful - you've just brightened up my day" - or suchlike - that there is anything wrong with this. It is polite, cheery, inoffensive, and not even 'flirty', and in my opinion should be accepted as such by the recipient of the compliment - invited or not.

I truly believe that a man who is armed with a great sense of humour and can make a woman laugh - I mean really laugh - has a great advantage over other men who haven't such a quality when it comes to captivating women.

Obviously this is not applicable if the guy with the humour has the 'head of a crab and the body of a Social Worker' - to quote Woody Allen (who is a classic case in point - look at the beautiful women he's dated) but generally, I hold with my tenet.

I for one, would not have met some of the memorable loves of my life had I not took the first step and paid such 'uninvited' compliments to 'beautiful strangers'.

Just as with 'street peddlers', 'Big Issue' hawkers and 'Survey Takers' - all of whom make uninvited 'intrusions' into a passer by's 'personal space' - a female recipient of a good natured but 'uninvited' compliment from a smiling male, always has several options open to her, including totally ignoring, rudely retorting, or graciously acknowledging the compliment with a smile.

Insulting and offensive remarks to women by dimwitted sexist morons, or all degrees of persistent following or even 'stalking' by sexually inadequate social misfits, will always occur - whether ordinary males make innocuous compliments to passing women or not.

When I was a child, 'our street' had a character - an ageing ex WW2 seaman - who used to get pissed as a newt every payday and would roll up the cobbled street throwing sweets to all the 'urchin' kids from a huge bag of mixed sweets he'd buy from the corner shop on his way home from his dinnertime session at the local pub. He'd do this because he loved children and had lost his own young son during the war. Today this poor innocent, kind-hearted man would probably be stoned as a paedophile.

Why? Because society is fecked up (thank's for that word Arista). Because of our growing awareness now of the -admitted - existence of paedophilia, we tend to overreact and 'tar everyone with the same brush'.

It is a shame, but this same 'sad reality' is just as existent in the subject under discussion, but just because there are a minority of weirdos and sexist creeps out there, we should not censure normal males who just happen to indulge in the 'time-honoured' tradition of paying passing pretty girls compliments.

As for 'ugly girls', then I say that not only is 'beauty' subjective, but also, that I am as likely to say a cheery "Good Morning" or some other 'ice-breaking' comment to a passing 'non-beautiful' female stranger as I am to a passing beautiful one (or to a male for that matter) but - obviously - I am not going to say: "Morning beautiful" if she looks like Ann Widdicombe and her beard needs trimming, because then she will be offended, because she will think I am taking the piss.

Anyway, while I am not trivialising the very real issue of females being 'accosted' or cat-called by loutish cretins, I make an appeal not to confuse that issue with friendly guys making innocuous compliments or other good-natured remarks -- Sometimes; "good morning beautiful, you have just brightened my day" delivered with a smile, can mean just that, and sometimes, any 'sub-textual' meaning, or 'sinister' undertone, is surely in the mind of the recipient.

Good Post Kirk..... but the mindset of the actions you describe ie "morning beautiful" or "you've brightened up my day" is one ingrained in a western,christian, liberal democracy and these comments are acceptable under that mindset.

But today in the UK we are far more multi-cultural and have large numbers of differing religions and cultures. These approaches/comments to say an Asian lady or a Muslim lady may not be welcomed in the same way they would be with an independent, Christian,Liberal woman.

So what was acceptable in earlier times may not be acceptable now, I mean look at the way men in the past used to treat women wrt groping and bottom pinching etc..

I think we have to measure our behaviour against the ruling mindset of the day and if in doubt just say nothing and go on about your business.




.

[Brother Leon]

omg!!!! gay men are just like every other human being? shocking!

but who has the power?

Congrats on ****ing up your own agenda driven post :joker: :joker:

[kirklancaster]

Congrats on ****ing up your own agenda driven post :joker: :joker:

Ouch!:joker::joker::joker:

[kirklancaster]

Good Post Kirk..... but the mindset of the actions you describe ie "morning beautiful" or "you've brightened up my day" is one ingrained in a western,christian, liberal democracy and these comments are acceptable under that mindset.

But today in the UK we are far more multi-cultural and have large numbers of differing religions and cultures. These approaches/comments to say an Asian lady or a Muslim lady may not be welcomed in the same way they would be with an independent, Christian,Liberal woman.

So what was acceptable in earlier times may not be acceptable now, I mean look at the way men in the past used to treat women wrt groping and bottom pinching etc..

I think we have to measure our behaviour against the ruling mindset of the day and if in doubt just say nothing and go on about your business.

.

Valid points Nedusa, but in my heyday, the UK wasn't as multicultural, and I had (and still have) a certain charm about me when dealing with people in real life, and I was never offensive or insulting, so I never had any problems at all and had only positive reactions - from a smile, to actual conversations ensuing - some of which led to dating.

I stopped wearing denim jeans when I reached 35 years of age, removed my gold sleeper earrings, and stopped chatting to passing women, and there's no way that I would attempt to pay even the most innocuous of compliments to any woman who was not obviously British - even then.

[lostalex]

YOU were saying that heterosexual men are the problem.

Oh, you know what? I give up. It's hard work going round and round in bloody circles.

so I win by default then?

I'll take it! :cheer2:

[lostalex]

Congrats on ****ing up your own agenda driven post :joker: :joker:

you didn't answer the question in my post. and my only agenda is pointing out inequality. is that a bad agenda to have?

[Livia]

so I win by default then?

I'll take it! :cheer2:

Yeah, you've finally worn me down. If I had a white flag I'd be waving it.

[kirklancaster]

Yeah, you've finally worn me down. If I had a white flag I'd be waving it.

:joker::joker::joker:

[Marsh.]

you didn't answer the question in my post. and my only agenda is pointing out inequality. is that a bad agenda to have?

You can walk the streets without being arrested. What more do you want? Sheesh! :idc:

[Ninastar]

I hope you're not calling me a troll, are you Alex?

Gay men, by percentage, are probably just as bad, and just as good as heterosexual men. People are people. Some are black, some are white, some are gay, some are straight, some are good some are bad.

Funny how people say this ALL THE TIME when they want equality, yet they love to blame 'certain' people for other problems.

these people pick and choose when to be offended by something and they choose when something is not offensive

its so hypocritical and pathetic.

[Livia]

Funny how people say this ALL THE TIME when they want equality, yet they love to blame 'certain' people for other problems.

these people pick and choose when to be offended by something and they choose when something is not offensive

its so hypocritical and pathetic.

Silence, Lesbian!

[Ninastar]

Silence, Lesbian!

Shut up, Juno... (Jew joke lolol)

[Livia]

Shut up, Juno... (Jew joke lolol)

LOL... you're going to have to try harder than that you know. Juno sounds positively lovely!

[Ninastar]

im all out of sass today! :sad:

[Marsh.]

Get a room you two. :idc:

and leave the door open just a tad...

[Ninastar]

no way

i am shutting that door so no disgusting white het men get in and kill us

[Marsh.]

:joker: