First e-cigarette 'vaping' advert to be shown on TV

[Crimson Dynamo]

The first UK TV advert featuring the use of an electronic cigarette - vaping - will be shown later.

While e-cigarette adverts have been on television for some time, showing the device itself was banned until a change in advertising rules which came into force overnight.

However, the Committee of Advertising Practice has ruled that adverts must not show tobacco "in a positive light".

Critics warn showing e-cigarette use could normalise the imagery of smoking.

The British government banned cigarette advertising on television in 1965.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29959379

http://www.whichecigarette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/e-cigarettes_and_the_media.jpg

How do you feel about this?

[Tom4784]

Hmm, it's less toxic then smoking but there's still questions over whether it's safe or not. I'd disagree with it until it's effects can be researched more conclusively.

[Northern Monkey]

The only known toxic ingredient in them is the nicoteen itself and i've seen loads of ads for patches and gum etc so i don't see the harm tbh.

[BBfanUSA]

I've seen a couple ads for vaping here the states.

The vapor is harmless to people, you just have to remember to keep it out of kids reach because ingesting it is very poisonous.

[Ramsay]

Tried them for a while and it just made me more hooked and now i'm back on fags :umm2:

[arista]

Loose Women on ITV1HD
called it Pornagrahic?


Is it Sex Tool as well?

[arista]

I've seen a couple ads for vaping here the states.

The vapor is harmless to people, you just have to remember to keep it out of kids reach because ingesting it is very poisonous.



What this model on Our
UK TV tonight?

[Northern Monkey]

Loose Women on ITV1HD
called it Pornagrahic?


Is it Sex Tool as well?

Anything's a sex tool to them horny old trouts.

[arista]

Anything's a sex tool to them horny old trouts.

Loose Woman could only show
a Photo as its a after 9PM


but they said they watched it
and said the woman in it was
Pornographic

[JoshBB]

needs more research.

[arista]

needs more research.



No they just want Money
to be made

[Northern Monkey]

Loose Woman could only show
a Photo as its a after 9PM


but they said they watched it
and said the woman in it was
Pornographic

Probably is to them with their covert vibrators:laugh:

[arista]

Probably is to them with their covert vibrators:laugh:


no Dear Old Judy Finnegan
could never use one , now

[TerryTagnut]

Hmm, it's less toxic then smoking but there's still questions over whether it's safe or not. I'd disagree with it until it's effects can be researched more conclusively.

Not many things in life are completely safe. The most important thing about ecgis is that they are a healthier alternative. How much safer than a regular cigarette? Most leading cardiologist would probably give you the following answer. If smoking has a risk of 100, then ecigs by comparison would be between 1 and 5 in comparison.

The only known toxic ingredient in them is the nicoteen itself and i've seen loads of ads for patches and gum etc so i don't see the harm tbh.

Nicotine has the same risk profile as caffeine. It's also not particular addictive (contrary to popular belief). Nicotine isn't toxic. Good point though - an ecig has exactly the same ingredients as other NRT products albeit fewer of then :)

Tried them for a while and it just made me more hooked and now i'm back on fags :umm2:

That's a shame. I've been a smoker all my life (over 20 years :( ). Since using an ecig (3 years ago) I haven't touched a cig since. There's a lot of options out there though. General rule of thumb, the ones that look like a cigarette are usually pants. Get an ecig called an "ego", these work really well, and the chances are you'll never want to smoke again (also, use higher nic, i.e, 24mg or 36mg).

needs more research.

True. Although there has recently been a lot of research, and they all go to show that ecigs are a much healthier alternative to smoking (perhaps having the same risks as drinking coffee).

[Kizzy]

Terry aka marketing manager for vape inc? :laugh:

I heard the dangers associated with vaping are found in the oils used in the cartridges for those with preexisting lung conditions.

[Mystic Mock]

Anything's a sex tool to them horny old trouts.

I didn't know that they was sluts.

Not very MILF sluts though.

[Marsh.]

Terry aka marketing manager for vape inc? :laugh:

I heard the dangers associated with vaping are found in the oils used in the cartridges for those with preexisting lung conditions.

And they stink of piss/BO too. :bored:

[Kizzy]

And they stink of piss/BO too. :bored:

Don't keep them in your sock drawer then :idc:

[Marsh.]

I don't smoke them, so that failed. :fist:

[TerryTagnut]

Terry aka marketing manager for vape inc? :laugh:

I heard the dangers associated with vaping are found in the oils used in the cartridges for those with preexisting lung conditions.


No oils in ecigs. They have 4 components: Propylene glycol (found in asthma inhalers) vegetable glycerine (found in a lot of foods), nicotine (found in potatoes, peppers and a lot of other vegetables lol) and flavourings.

Lol, the only manager I'm a manager of, is the manager of better health. As a smoker I was wheezing my lungs up, and in and out of hospital with persistent lung complaints. Since switching my peak flow has gone from dangerously bad to way above average. Haven't used my asthma inhaler (not once) for coming on 2 years and now run marathons and currently training to be a personal trainer. :)

And they stink of piss/BO too. :bored:


What does? I usually smell of custard, because I vape mainly custard flavour lol. :laugh:

[Marsh.]

Sorry, I didn't realise you were an e-cig salesman.

[Kizzy]

No oils in ecigs. They have 4 components: Propylene glycol (found in asthma inhalers) vegetable glycerine (found in a lot of foods), nicotine (found in potatoes, peppers and a lot of other vegetables lol) and flavourings.

Lol, the only manager I'm a manager of, is the manager of better health. As a smoker I was wheezing my lungs up, and in and out of hospital with persistent lung complaints. Since switching my peak flow has gone from dangerously bad to way above average. Haven't used my asthma inhaler (not once) for coming on 2 years and now run marathons and currently training to be a personal trainer. :)




What does? I usually smell of custard, because I vape mainly custard flavour lol. :laugh:


Vegetable glycerine is an oil, food isn't absorbed into your lungs is it tel?
You already stated there is 24g or 36g of nicotine in this product, comparatively how much is in a spud?

If I were you I would get a better handle on what you put in your body if you want a career as a personal trainer, who wants to employ a fitness expert who smells of oily custard..

[arista]

Can someone please post the Video


I want to see if she is Pornographic

[arista]

Terry aka marketing manager for vape inc? :laugh:

I heard the dangers associated with vaping are found in the oils used in the cartridges for those with preexisting lung conditions.


Amazing he finds the time
they are so busy tricking new customers

Feel The Force

[Livia]

Oh no, for the sake of the children, keep e-cig adverts off the telly! Because not advertising on TV has worked so well keeping kids off drugs, right?

Kids will try stuff whether it's advertised or not. I'd be far more concerned about cheap booze being advertised on telly. The anti-smoking Gestapo are not going to allow e-cigs to get a foothold, even though they don't contain tobacco. And yes more research is needed because nicotine's addictive. But so it caffeine, and yet drinking coffee is not only socially acceptable, it's positively encouraged. Seems ridiculous...

[Kizzy]

i6SQiu08DxQ

All these 'sexy' vaping products are destined for the UK it seems, so we have spent millions on anti smoking campaigns and now there's some other nicotine based product specifically targeting young people to take their place. :/

[Marsh.]

If I were you I would get a better handle on what you put in your body if you want a career as a personal trainer, who wants to employ a fitness expert who smells of oily custard..

:joker: Post of the day.

[Livia]

Not many things in life are completely safe.....

Welcome, by the way, Terry.

[arista]

Thats not the UK TV video


Loose Women, yesterday
informed us
it is Pornographic

[Kizzy]

Thats not the UK TV video


Loose Women, yesterday
informed us
it is Pornographic

No it isn't, those are the products coming to the UK.

Is this it on here?
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/22492/1/the-first-vaping-advertisement-hits-british-tv-tonight

[Marsh.]

I think they were referring to the ones already airing which had slogans like "Put it in your mouth and taste it" being very sexualised.

You're obsessed with porn arista. :idc:

[lily.]

I am hearing/reading about non-smokers starting to use e-cigs. I don't know if this is just rumour, but it seems a bit mental.

[Kizzy]

I know, look at the expo it's crazy there's a vape thing that looks like a pokemon bong :/

I guess it's just a case of sex sells, and it's just one more thing that's avoidable if you want to stay healthy but the target market is a bit young an that's what sticks in my craw.

[TerryTagnut]

Sorry, I didn't realise you were an e-cig salesman.

I don't sell them. But they saved my life in the most literal sense. Why is it so wrong to be passionate about something so positive?

Vegetable glycerine is an oil, food isn't absorbed into your lungs is it tel?
You already stated there is 24g or 36g of nicotine in this product, comparatively how much is in a spud?

If I were you I would get a better handle on what you put in your body if you want a career as a personal trainer, who wants to employ a fitness expert who smells of oily custard..

Thankfully, a lot of people in this world will celebrate my change of lifestyle and see the positives. :) We all have our foibles - some are addicted to trash tv; rotting their mind and soul, some just sit on their backsides all day. However, I think it's good to look for the good in other people though, rather than sit back in judgement waving the finger of self-righteous indignation. :laugh:

The reason I'm so passionate about ecigs is because they work. I tried every conceivable method to try and quit, every type of NRT, gums, patches, sprays etc. Nothing worked. The first day I tried vaping, I quit - and haven't smoked since. My peak flow is a clear indicator that my health has vastly improved.

Vegetable glycerin is often used to sweeten foods. It is used in both foods, medical and pharmaceutical products. As for nicotine, again, the amounts of nicotine is not really the issue. The quantities used in an ecig pose the same sort of risks as caffeine. People erroneously believe it's the nicotine that is the bad guy, but it's really the tar and the other 4000 chemicals in them. In fact, a lot of recent research are starting to show that nicotine can be beneficial to health, esp for the treatment of alzheimers.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/112198/medical_conditions/nicotine_fact___its_medically_proven_to_be_good_fo r_you.html#.UtUWI6UT2sA.twitte%E2%80%8Br


With smoking there is combustion. Ecigs, there is no combustion.

I laugh when I see the argument that ecigs are targeting children. This is just a mindless argument that has been instilled by the media. Who is targeting children? No, ecigs are targeting adults. Potentially millions upon millions of lives could be saved if people switched to ecigs. It's as simple as that. Real lives, real people.

Let's think of the adults for a change?

And here's the opinion from the world's authority on these types of things:

watch?v=SVS0_BGHHjM

[TerryTagnut]

Welcome, by the way, Terry.

Thank you. :)

[lily.]

I know, look at the expo it's crazy there's a vape thing that looks like a pokemon bong :/

I guess it's just a case of sex sells, and it's just one more thing that's avoidable if you want to stay healthy but the target market is a bit young an that's what sticks in my craw.


Mine too.

[Kizzy]

I don't sell them. But they saved my life in the most literal sense. Why is it so wrong to be passionate about something so positive?



Thankfully, a lot of people in this world will celebrate my change of lifestyle and see the positives. :) We all have our foibles - some are addicted to trash tv; rotting their mind and soul, some just sit on their backsides all day. However, I think it's good to look for the good in other people though, rather than sit back in judgement waving the finger of self-righteous indignation. :laugh:

The reason I'm so passionate about ecigs is because they work. I tried every conceivable method to try and quit, every type of NRT, gums, patches, sprays etc. Nothing worked. The first day I tried vaping, I quit - and haven't smoked since. My peak flow is a clear indicator that my health has vastly improved.

Vegetable glycerin is often used to sweeten foods. It is used in both foods, medical and pharmaceutical products. As for nicotine, again, the amounts of nicotine is not really the issue. The quantities used in an ecig pose the same sort of risks as caffeine. People erroneously believe it's the nicotine that is the bad guy, but it's really the tar and the other 4000 chemicals in them. In fact, a lot of recent research are starting to show that nicotine can be beneficial to health, esp for the treatment of alzheimers.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/112198/medical_conditions/nicotine_fact___its_medically_proven_to_be_good_fo r_you.html#.UtUWI6UT2sA.twitte%E2%80%8Br


With smoking there is combustion. Ecigs, there is no combustion.

I laugh when I see the argument that ecigs are targeting children. This is just a mindless argument that has been instilled by the media. Who is targeting children? No, ecigs are targeting adults. Potentially millions upon millions of lives could be saved if people switched to ecigs. It's as simple as that. Real lives, real people.

Let's think of the adults for a change?

And here's the opinion from the world's authority on these types of things:

watch?v=SVS0_BGHHjM


I'll look past all the waffle if you don't mind and just say this if you want to stop smoking then stop, using any other contraption or aid as a crutch suggests you are still addicted so this endevour has not helped you in any way whatsoever.
My initial response was to the oil, I see your links and commentary on the comparisons to the food industry but that is irrelevant here.
The claims that nicotine has any specific neurological benefit is not made by any reputable scientific establishment, therefore isn't really of any merit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738952/Harmful-chemical-linked-rare-factory-lung-condition-e-cigarette-liquid.html

[TerryTagnut]

Waffle? :(

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah) :)

http://imagestore.puff.com/2012/05/01/p_3565241_0.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think they are a great idea and the sooner they take over from the cancer ridden tobacco cigs the better

[Niamh.]

Waffle? :(

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah) :)

http://imagestore.puff.com/2012/05/01/p_3565241_0.jpg

I thought it was a great post Terry. Welcome to the forum :love:

[Liam-]

Waffle? :(

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah) :)

http://imagestore.puff.com/2012/05/01/p_3565241_0.jpg

I like you already :laugh:

Welcome!

[arista]

I think they were referring to the ones already airing which had slogans like "Put it in your mouth and taste it" being very sexualised.

You're obsessed with porn arista. :idc:


You Can Talk.


It was what the Loose Woman Panel
said yesterday

[Crimson Dynamo]

i wonder where one can but that ravishing busty painted lady from the video?

I could do with 20 of her a day

[Marsh.]

You Can Talk.


It was what the Loose Woman Panel
said yesterday

What are you trying to say? :fist:

[Marsh.]

i wonder where one can but that ravishing busty painted lady from the video?

I could do with 20 of her a day

They'd eat you alive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They'd eat you alive.

:worry:

they do look fierce

[Northern Monkey]

I think they are a great idea and the sooner they take over from the cancer ridden tobacco cigs the better

This!I use one as i used to be a smoker.Started on 2.4mg and cut down to 0.8mg now.My nicotene intake is at an all time low.Soon i'll be on 0 nicotene and then off the vape all together.They are brilliant.

[Kizzy]

Waffle? :(

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah) :)

http://imagestore.puff.com/2012/05/01/p_3565241_0.jpg

Excuse me but you quoted me first terry, and you still haven't addressed my concerns about the oil in ecigs adequately at least my opinion is based on research and not simply the fact that they are my fix of choice.
Not sure why you're attempting to patronise me about drinking coffee and yes I am thinking of the children actually it's no bad thing is it?

[TerryTagnut]

I thought it was a great post Terry. Welcome to the forum :love:

Thankies! :)

I like you already :laugh:

Welcome!

Whoohoo lucky me :laugh:

Excuse me but you quoted me first terry, and you still haven't addressed my concerns about the oil in ecigs adequately at least my opinion is based on research and not simply the fact that they are my fix of choice.
Not sure why you're attempting to patronise me about drinking coffee and yes I am thinking of the children actually it's no bad thing is it?

Patronising? :shrug:

I have answered your concerns over vegetable glycerine. I've even linked you to some juicy links which shows the positives of ecigs.

Would you be willing to answer the following questions Kizzy?

Do you drink tea or coffee? They are both drugs.
Do you consume sugar? Most dieticians regard sugar as a recreational drug.
Do you consume alcohol?
Do you take regular exercise?
Are you overweight?

I'll answer those questions first. I might drink a few cups of tea a day (usually black) and have an occasional coffee. Mainly though, I drink herbal tea. I don't drink alcohol, and I avoid sugar. I do regular cardiovascular exercise and train with weights. I train for marathons and currently learning to rock climb. In short, I'm a very very boring person :( :bawling: :laugh:

That said, I have no problems whatsoever if people enjoy getting ratarsed, can't be bothered to do any exercise and drink coffee like it's going out of fashion. It's their life - non of my business (although tbh, I do think of the children sometimes when I see shelf after shelf stacked with sugar-laden chocolate, a recreational drug clearly aimed at children).

However, I do enjoy my nicotine (my drug of choice, just like alcohol or caffeine might be other people's choice). I now enjoy my nicotine in a far healthier manner.

If you answered yes to any of the questions above btw, would you consider me patronising for rebuking you because you enjoy them?

Sorry for the waffle (!) but I think this is important. I have tried over and over again to give up cigarettes (and if used according to the instructions, will probably kill you). Traditional NRT (gums, patches, sprays) have over a 90% failure rate (in other words, they do not work but line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry). NRT never worked for me. You can give me the line about "just give up". But only a non smoker would ever say such a thing. Fact is fact. I have tried and failed. But succeeded by using an ecig.

Now, even the most ardent opponent of ecigs would have to concur that ecigs are without question, far far far safer than using a cigarette. Couple that with the fact that, for some, just giving up smoking is impossible, then what do you do?

Just condemn people to die a horrendous fate, just because you and the Daily Mail can't stand the idea of people enjoying themselves?

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the "think of the children" line tbh. How do you want me to think about them precisely? That line is usually dragged out when there's a lack of supporting evidence to bolster a proper line of argument.

For some reason, the Daily Mail has an agenda against ecigs. It completely ignores the positive, but blatantly lies week after week with half truths and misinformation. :shrug: That link you gave earlier, about diacetyl. At the moment diacetyl is a contentious issue in the vaping community, but it's only found in some and not all eliquids. It's also a problem being address, making sure future liquids will not contain these chemicals. And even if they did, they would still be far far far far safer than smoking a traditional cigarette. It's scare tactics, it's taking something and completely distorting it to fit an agenda.

If you want to criticise ecigs because of a weakness that can be remedied, then you might as well criticise water because some people drown in it. In other words, you can change things to make them safer. In other words, it's not a legitimate argument against the inherent positives of ecigs.

Anyway, sorry about the waffle. But I look forward to your answers. Is stoicism really the answer? Is pleasure such a bad thing? Who gives anyone the right to pass judgement, just because they personally don't like it? You can drag up as many children as you want, but the fact remains; if you try to prevent people from using ecigs, then you would be condemning millions and millions of people to an early demise. This is fact.

[Kizzy]

Thankies! :)



Whoohoo lucky me :laugh:



Patronising? :shrug:

I have answered your concerns over vegetable glycerine. I've even linked you to some juicy links which shows the positives of ecigs.

Would you be willing to answer the following questions Kizzy?

Do you drink tea or coffee? They are both drugs.
Do you consume sugar? Most dieticians regard sugar as a recreational drug.
Do you consume alcohol?
Do you take regular exercise?
Are you overweight?

I'll answer those questions first. I might drink a few cups of tea a day (usually black) and have an occasional coffee. Mainly though, I drink herbal tea. I don't drink alcohol, and I avoid sugar. I do regular cardiovascular exercise and train with weights. I train for marathons and currently learning to rock climb. In short, I'm a very very boring person :( :bawling: :laugh:

That said, I have no problems whatsoever if people enjoy getting ratarsed, can't be bothered to do any exercise and drink coffee like it's going out of fashion. It's their life - non of my business (although tbh, I do think of the children sometimes when I see shelf after shelf stacked with sugar-laden chocolate, a recreational drug clearly aimed at children).

However, I do enjoy my nicotine (my drug of choice, just like alcohol or caffeine might be other people's choice). I now enjoy my nicotine in a far healthier manner.

If you answered yes to any of the questions above btw, would you consider me patronising for rebuking you because you enjoy them?

Sorry for the waffle (!) but I think this is important. I have tried over and over again to give up cigarettes (and if used according to the instructions, will probably kill you). Traditional NRT (gums, patches, sprays) have over a 90% failure rate (in other words, they do not work but line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry). NRT never worked for me. You can give me the line about "just give up". But only a non smoker would ever say such a thing. Fact is fact. I have tried and failed. But succeeded by using an ecig.

Now, even the most ardent opponent of ecigs would have to concur that ecigs are without question, far far far safer than using a cigarette. Couple that with the fact that, for some, just giving up smoking is impossible, then what do you do?

Just condemn people to die a horrendous fate, just because you and the Daily Mail can't stand the idea of people enjoying themselves?

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the "think of the children" line tbh. How do you want me to think about them precisely? That line is usually dragged out when there's a lack of supporting evidence to bolster a proper line of argument.

For some reason, the Daily Mail has an agenda against ecigs. It completely ignores the positive, but blatantly lies week after week with half truths and misinformation. :shrug: That link you gave earlier, about diacetyl. At the moment diacetyl is a contentious issue in the vaping community, but it's only found in some and not all eliquids. It's also a problem being address, making sure future liquids will not contain these chemicals. And even if they did, they would still be far far far far safer than smoking a traditional cigarette. It's scare tactics, it's taking something and completely distorting it to fit an agenda.

If you want to criticise ecigs because of a weakness that can be remedied, then you might as well criticise water because some people drown in it. In other words, you can change things to make them safer. In other words, it's not a legitimate argument against the inherent positives of ecigs.

Anyway, sorry about the waffle. But I look forward to your answers. Is stoicism really the answer? Is pleasure such a bad thing? Who gives anyone the right to pass judgement, just because they personally don't like it? You can drag up as many children as you want, but the fact remains; if you try to prevent people from using ecigs, then you would be condemning millions and millions of people to an early demise. This is fact.

You didn't answer my concerns and have conveniently glossed over the article I posted voicing said concerns... maybe you could dip your toe and give a response to that?

I don't feel questioning me on my habits would be of any benefit seeing as I'm not addicted to nicotine, nothing else would be comparable would it?
You can't compare one addictive substance to another like that.... nicotine suspended in an oil based solution is nothing like sugar, sugar is a substance in it's natural state, it is ingested and absorbed in a compleatly different way and it's effects are equally diverse.

Why you've aligned me with the daily mail and suggested I don't like people 'enjoying themselves' I don't know :conf:
If you vape and are not physically or mentally equipt to rid yourself of your addiction and choose to see what you do as enjoyment that's fine terry.

I never asked you to think of the children, I stated I was considering them due to the target market is all, don't misquote me please. I'm not judging you either, you can surround yourself in a custardy haze all day for all I care, my initial issue was with the aim of the marketing is all.

[Kizzy]

'The revised EUTPD should come into force this May and most of the new rules, including a ban on packs of less than 20 cigarettes and 30g of rolling tobacco, should apply by the first half of 2016.

Capsule cigarettes and other 
flavoured tobacco products will be banned from 2016, but a further phase-out period of four years will apply to menthol cigarettes.'

is this suggesting ecigs are to be banned?

http://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/advice/products-in-depth/tobacco-playing-the-numbers-game/355349.article

The amount of nicotine is questionable too, the figures quoted 24mg to 36mg seem really high that's equivalent to 2 packs of cigarettes roughly. C10H14N2 contains carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen... not that beneficial to the human body whatever pseudoscience says.

[arista]

Terry



I Drink Kenya Tea
it gives me a Kick


Better than your Toxic e cigg

[TerryTagnut]

You didn't answer my concerns and have conveniently glossed over the article I posted voicing said concerns... maybe you could dip your toe and give a response to that?

I don't feel questioning me on my habits would be of any benefit seeing as I'm not addicted to nicotine, nothing else would be comparable would it?
You can't compare one addictive substance to another like that.... nicotine suspended in an oil based solution is nothing like sugar, sugar is a substance in it's natural state, it is ingested and absorbed in a compleatly different way and it's effects are equally diverse.

Why you've aligned me with the daily mail and suggested I don't like people 'enjoying themselves' I don't know :conf:
If you vape and are not physically or mentally equipt to rid yourself of your addiction and choose to see what you do as enjoyment that's fine terry.

I never asked you to think of the children, I stated I was considering them due to the target market is all, don't misquote me please. I'm not judging you either, you can surround yourself in a custardy haze all day for all I care, my initial issue was with the aim of the marketing is all.


From the International Journal of Environmental Research and
Public Health:

Propylene glycol and glycerol are the main ingredients of EC liquids. Both are classified by Food
and Drug Administration (FDA) and by the Flavor and Extracts Manufacturers Association (FEMA) as
additives that are “generally recognized as safe” for use in food (FEMA GRAS numbers 2,940 and
2,525 respectively). They are also used in tobacco cigarettes as humectants; however they may be
pyrolyzed to acrolein and formaldehyde [32,33]. Goniewicz et al. found acrolein and formaldehyde in
EC vapour [34]; however, the levels detected were lower compared to CS by orders of magnitude,
probably because the temperature of evaporation of EC liquid is lower compared to the temperature of
combustion in tobacco cigarettes. Similar observations were made by Lauterbach and Laugesen [35].
Even if such chemicals were released during vapour production in this study, the amount was probably
not enough to produce any significant cytotoxic effect on cultured cells. Nicotine, at levels commonly
found in cigarettes, does not induce cell death and may even have anti-apoptotic properties in
myocardial [36] and other cell lines [37,38].,



Damn, there's probably loads of studies which back up use of vegetable glycerine to be 'safe'. I don't pretend to be a medical expert (actually, medically ignorant would be a better description), but one thing I do know, there's a plethora of peer reviewed research that all come to the same conclusion - that ecigs are a far healthier alternative to smoking. As I've stated before, if cigarettes are deemed 100 (in terms of risk), then ecigs by comparison are somewhere between 1 and 5.

But, not even getting bogged down by the science, you speak to any user of ecigs and they'll all probably be saying the same thing: they can breathe better, they feel far healthier and it's been a life-changing decision for them.

I'm not sure why you're saying that it's unfair to compare one addiction to another. Let's take alcohol for a start. In 2012, about 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 % of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. That's quite a number.

Remember, nicotine has the same risk profile as caffeine. So, I'm left unclear why someone would say it's unfair to make a comparison? People think nicotine is the killer, when in fact it's all the other crap in cigarettes. There's mountain evidence that far from being a killer, nicotine in fact might be a wonder drug!

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

It would be a crying shame if the benefits of nicotine were swept under the carpet just because of some moral fanaticism.

Anyway, I apologise for aligning you with the Daily Mail. I think it was the "think of the children" thing that lead me to this misapprehension. Usually put forward by the zealots without any rational argument. Speaking of which:

http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-logical-fallacies-of-anti-vaping-zealots

I think people's main concern with ecigs is the fact that in some circumstances it can look like smoking. But it's just vapour. Do we ban kettles? Do we ban shaking coke cans in public because it might look like a gratuitous act of onanism? Where do we draw the line?

One thing I know though - the sooner the truth about ecigs becomes apparent, and can be discussed in a sensible and adult fashion, without emotive and nonsensical argument put forward such as "the think of the children" line (which doesn't have one shred of evidence to substantiate it being used), the better it will be. It will give millions of smokers a chance to make an informed decision to switch to a healthier alternative if they so desire.

That said, I have nothing against smokers - it's their choice, and they should have the right to carry on without the constant bullying and chastisement from a pernicious and judgemental society. :)

[billy123]

'The revised EUTPD should come into force this May and most of the new rules, including a ban on packs of less than 20 cigarettes and 30g of rolling tobacco, should apply by the first half of 2016.

Capsule cigarettes and other 
flavoured tobacco products will be banned from 2016, but a further phase-out period of four years will apply to menthol cigarettes.'

is this suggesting ecigs are to be banned?

http://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/advice/products-in-depth/tobacco-playing-the-numbers-game/355349.article

The amount of nicotine is questionable too, the figures quoted 24mg to 36mg seem really high that's equivalent to 2 packs of cigarettes roughly. C10H14N2 contains carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen... not that beneficial to the human body whatever pseudoscience says.In short no.
Capsule cigarettes are normal tobacco cigarettes that you smoke like a regular cigarette but they have a capsule containing flavour in the filter so very different to e-cigs.
Also ecigs are not classed as a tobacco product as they contain no tobacco.

Regarding the Nicotine levels in ecigs v a tobacco cigarette the figures are confusing as a direct comparison in nicotine levels is very misleading as nicotine levels of ejuice are measured in concentrations of a liquid mg/l whereas cigarette nicotine levels are measured in micrograms and are shown as the amount you would be expected to absorb from a single cigarette. i.e. a cigarette with a nicotine level of 1.2mg accounts for there being a 10% absorbtion level of nicotine meaning there is actually 12mg of nicotine in a single cigarette and 240mg of nicotine in a packet of cigs a hell of a lot more than the 24mg per litre in a bottle of ejuice.

The propylene glycol used in ejuices is also used in asthma inhalers,lipstick,soap and all sorts of things and is long known to be completely harmless.

[Kizzy]

From the International Journal of Environmental Research and
Public Health:





Damn, there's probably loads of studies which back up use of vegetable glycerine to be 'safe'. I don't pretend to be a medical expert (actually, medically ignorant would be a better description), but one thing I do know, there's a plethora of peer reviewed research that all come to the same conclusion - that ecigs are a far healthier alternative to smoking. As I've stated before, if cigarettes are deemed 100 (in terms of risk), then ecigs by comparison are somewhere between 1 and 5.

But, not even getting bogged down by the science, you speak to any user of ecigs and they'll all probably be saying the same thing: they can breathe better, they feel far healthier and it's been a life-changing decision for them.

I'm not sure why you're saying that it's unfair to compare one addiction to another. Let's take alcohol for a start. In 2012, about 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 % of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. That's quite a number.

Remember, nicotine has the same risk profile as caffeine. So, I'm left unclear why someone would say it's unfair to make a comparison? People think nicotine is the killer, when in fact it's all the other crap in cigarettes. There's mountain evidence that far from being a killer, nicotine in fact might be a wonder drug!

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

It would be a crying shame if the benefits of nicotine were swept under the carpet just because of some moral fanaticism.

Anyway, I apologise for aligning you with the Daily Mail. I think it was the "think of the children" thing that lead me to this misapprehension. Usually put forward by the zealots without any rational argument. Speaking of which:

http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-logical-fallacies-of-anti-vaping-zealots

I think people's main concern with ecigs is the fact that in some circumstances it can look like smoking. But it's just vapour. Do we ban kettles? Do we ban shaking coke cans in public because it might look like a gratuitous act of onanism? Where do we draw the line?

One thing I know though - the sooner the truth about ecigs becomes apparent, and can be discussed in a sensible and adult fashion, without emotive and nonsensical argument put forward such as "the think of the children" line (which doesn't have one shred of evidence to substantiate it being used), the better it will be. It will give millions of smokers a chance to make an informed decision to switch to a healthier alternative if they so desire.

That said, I have nothing against smokers - it's their choice, and they should have the right to carry on without the constant bullying and chastisement from a pernicious and judgemental society. :)

It's not just water though is it in all seriousness? In the information you posted there is the mention of formaldehyde so the argument that they are harmless begins to crumble.
The inclusion of the 'think of the children line again is unnecessary as I have already explained your misquotation of that comment,neither are my concerns nonsensical as I have also provided science based counter information to your claims that ecigs are the next best thing to fresh air, which as your breakdown of the components prove they are not.
Nobody is bullying anyone as far as I can see everyone still has the choice to smoke, there is no pernicious societal judgement involved in this discussion so you can relax.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/07/22/how-safe-and-effective-electronic-cigarettes-really-are/

[InOne]

I saw an advert for them on TV the other day. It was quite boring and made E-cigs look the same. People sat around at dinner parties chatting and politely vaping away.

[TerryTagnut]

It's not just water though is it in all seriousness? In the information you posted there is the mention of formaldehyde so the argument that they are harmless begins to crumble.
The inclusion of the 'think of the children line again is unnecessary as I have already explained your misquotation of that comment,neither are my concerns nonsensical as I have also provided science based counter information to your claims that ecigs are the next best thing to fresh air, which as your breakdown of the components prove they are not.
Nobody is bullying anyone as far as I can see everyone still has the choice to smoke, there is no pernicious societal judgement involved in this discussion so you can relax.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/07/22/how-safe-and-effective-electronic-cigarettes-really-are/

Lol @ that link. That features the infamous Stanton Glantz - he's basically a complete laughing stock, considered a buffoon of the highest order by proper medical doctors and cardiologist (his PhD is in applied mechanics and engineering economic systems).

He's following a puritanical agenda (most probably getting back-handers). Basically spouting lie after lie, which have all been blown out of the water by proper professional medical scientist.

I have never said that ecigs are harmless. From the very beginning I said that it's harm reduction. Not many things in life are harmless. Just like people who enjoy coffee, alcohol, meat, milk etc etc, are all engaging in an exercise of risk.

There again, compared to real cigarettes it's harm reduction by a considerable amount.

Your last line is incorrect. Smokers have been castigated, belittled, bullied, demonised and turned into social pariahs by the media. It's disgusting. Not only disgusting, but slightly alarming when you sit back and think about the wider implications. Yeah, yeah, relax. Comfortably numb eh? This is a sad reflection of modern times. :joker:

[arista]

I saw an advert for them on TV the other day. It was quite boring and made E-cigs look the same. People sat around at dinner parties chatting and politely vaping away.



Was it Not Pornographic?

[lostalex]

ummm, where's the hot cowboy???

http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cowboy-aec26.jpg?w=500&h=567

[Kizzy]

Lol @ that link. That features the infamous Stanton Glantz - he's basically a complete laughing stock, considered a buffoon of the highest order by proper medical doctors and cardiologist (his PhD is in applied mechanics and engineering economic systems).

He's following a puritanical agenda (most probably getting back-handers). Basically spouting lie after lie, which have all been blown out of the water by proper professional medical scientist.

I have never said that ecigs are harmless. From the very beginning I said that it's harm reduction. Not many things in life are harmless. Just like people who enjoy coffee, alcohol, meat, milk etc etc, are all engaging in an exercise of risk.

There again, compared to real cigarettes it's harm reduction by a considerable amount.

Your last line is incorrect. Smokers have been castigated, belittled, bullied, demonised and turned into social pariahs by the media. It's disgusting. Not only disgusting, but slightly alarming when you sit back and think about the wider implications. Yeah, yeah, relax. Comfortably numb eh? This is a sad reflection of modern times. :joker:

Ah right I see so you can post links to your biased 'ecigreview' sites and yet you rubbish mine with specific measured data included?
Your inclusion of potatoes was laughable enough but now milk comes under question in your analysis of the benefits of nicotine... It's an addiction, and you are a not demonised there is a drive to help those who wish to rid themselves of that addiction. I don't feel by vaping you are doing yourself any favours substituting one nicotine product for another isn't a 'healthy' option however you attempt to spin it.
You yourself are probably more at risk due you your preference forthe custard flavour which as you probably know will contain traces of the very dangerous diacetyl.

[TerryTagnut]

Ah right I see so you can post links to your biased 'ecigreview' sites and yet you rubbish mine with specific measured data included?
Your inclusion of potatoes was laughable enough but now milk comes under question in your analysis of the benefits of nicotine... It's an addiction, and you are a not demonised there is a drive to help those who wish to rid themselves of that addiction. I don't feel by vaping you are doing yourself any favours substituting one nicotine product for another isn't a 'healthy' option however you attempt to spin it.
You yourself are probably more at risk due you your preference forthe custard flavour which as you probably know will contain traces of the very dangerous diacetyl.

What's laughable about a potato? Or a pepper. They both have nicotine in them. That was just an example that nicotine is found in innocuous sources. An example that nicotine is fairly common and not just found in a rolled up piece of paper full of tar. I'm not sure why the inclusion of this example is so difficult for you to grasp? :shrug: Why was my reference to milk so hard for you to understand? Don't you realise that supermarket milk is full of growth hormones? Sorry, I overestimated you, I thought you'd be able to join the dots together, to comprehend the implicit.

This is becoming a fruitless discussion to be honest. It's getting ridiculous. I supply you with peer-review research from leading medical scientist and you call that pseudo-science, but at the same time, you give me a link from a laughing-stock who's not even a qualified medical practitioner!

You're suffering from a bad bout of confirmation bias because instead of perhaps looking at those peer-reviewed studies I supplied you with, you'd rather attack science with ignorance in the form of Stanton Glantz. The man's a laughing stock, period. It's quite embarrassing even referring to him.

Nope about the diacetyl. I make my own liquid. I have my own pharma grade PG/VG/Nic and get my custard from a company called Flavourart, who don't use diacetyl in their custards.

Addiction. Please don't moralise to me about addiction. You refused to answer if you consumed caffeine, or alcohol. We all have our poisons. God, even TV can be said to be a form of addiction. Unless you can come back to me and say you do regular exercise, don't indulge in alcohol, don't drink caffeine, don't indulge in the odd 'recreational' drug etc etc, then you can keep your lecturing to yourself. Otherwise, it just makes you look like a high-horsed, moralising hypocrite. :nono:

Right I'm done I guess. My last post. I enjoy engaging in conversation, but one addiction I don't suffer from is banging my head unremittingly against a brick wall. I think I might need an E-wall :joker:

[Kizzy]

What's laughable about a potato? Or a pepper. They both have nicotine in them. That was just an example that nicotine is found in innocuous sources. An example that nicotine is fairly common and not just found in a rolled up piece of paper full of tar. I'm not sure why the inclusion of this example is so difficult for you to grasp? :shrug: Why was my reference to milk so hard for you to understand? Don't you realise that supermarket milk is full of growth hormones? Sorry, I overestimated you, I thought you'd be able to join the dots together, to comprehend the implicit.

This is becoming a fruitless discussion to be honest. It's getting ridiculous. I supply you with peer-review research from leading medical scientist and you call that pseudo-science, but at the same time, you give me a link from a laughing-stock who's not even a qualified medical practitioner!

You're suffering from a bad bout of confirmation bias because instead of perhaps looking at those peer-reviewed studies I supplied you with, you'd rather attack science with ignorance in the form of Stanton Glantz. The man's a laughing stock, period. It's quite embarrassing even referring to him.

Nope about the diacetyl. I make my own liquid. I have my own pharma grade PG/VG/Nic and get my custard from a company called Flavourart, who don't use diacetyl in their custards.

Addiction. Please don't moralise to me about addiction. You refused to answer if you consumed caffeine, or alcohol. We all have our poisons. God, even TV can be said to be a form of addiction. Unless you can come back to me and say you do regular exercise, don't indulge in alcohol, don't drink caffeine, don't indulge in the odd 'recreational' drug etc etc, then you can keep your lecturing to yourself. Otherwise, it just makes you look like a high-horsed, moralising hypocrite. :nono:

Right I'm done I guess. My last post. I enjoy engaging in conversation, but one addiction I don't suffer from is banging my head unremittingly against a brick wall. I think I might need an E-wall :joker:

It's not difficult for me to grasp it's just pointless... as pointless as saying when you use mouthwash you should join AA as it contains alcohol.
Whatever issues you have with the dairy industry are not relevant to this thread either so shall we stick to the issue here?
I think the consensus is there is a question mark over the industry with it being so new and much of the information comes from sources with some kind of organisational bias so it's hard to find reputable independent study.

However you make your frankenfags is of no interest to me, again if you want to feed your addiction that's your business.
This is a discussion forum I don't have to have first hand experience of anything to have an opinion thank you but as it happens I do have experience of addiction as I am an ex smoker.. I hope that qualifies me in your mind to have a view on this subject.,I'm not a bleeding heart, a mail reader, fun thief or hypocrite.

[TerryTagnut]

It's not difficult for me to grasp it's just pointless... as pointless as saying when you use mouthwash you should join AA as it contains alcohol.
Whatever issues you have with the dairy industry are not relevant to this thread either so shall we stick to the issue here?
I think the consensus is there is a question mark over the industry with it being so new and much of the information comes from sources with some kind of organisational bias so it's hard to find reputable independent study.

However you make your frankenfags is of no interest to me, again if you want to feed your addiction that's your business.
This is a discussion forum I don't have to have first hand experience of anything to have an opinion thank you but as it happens I do have experience of addiction as I am an ex smoker.. I hope that qualifies me in your mind to have a view on this subject.,I'm not a bleeding heart, a mail reader, fun thief or hypocrite.

Wow, do you realise that you have an uncanny knack of contradicting yourself? Also, is there more than one of you there? You keep using the phrase "shall we". Strange. :joker:

Anyhoo, it seems you missed the whole point to the dairy reference. It went so far over your head that you could bounce radio signals off it. :laugh:

But, and you've been a bit naughty here, if you'd come out and straight away said you were one of those types of ex-smokers, I wouldn't have bothered in trying to engage in a rational discussion. The Allen Carr brigade and the Daily Fail are not the sort of things I usually waste my time with tbh.

I don't know if you're aware, but your whole tone is very passive aggressive. On the one hand you state it's non of your business and you couldn't care less, and then straight away decide it's reasonable to attach a derogatory label to it (frankenfags). So one minute you're saying you know nothing about the subject, and then the next attaching a nasty label to something you've just said you know nothing about. :shrug: Is this a demonstration of childishness or just plain stupidity? I'm really not trying to be rude here, but I can only see these two options as possible answers.

Here's another person who initially had the same type of opinion as you, but he decided that facts are fairly useful when forming an opinion. Also, he's a doctor. Oh, don't tell me, more bias! :joker:

Right, I think you're done. I could have gone on to say it's been fun.... but it hasn't :( :sleep:

watch?v=nkiaSW8ZR1g

[Kizzy]

Wow, do you realise that you have an uncanny knack of contradicting yourself? Also, is there more than one of you there? You keep using the phrase "shall we". Strange. :joker:

Anyhoo, it seems you missed the whole point to the dairy reference. It went so far over your head that you could bounce radio signals off it. :laugh:

But, and you've been a bit naughty here, if you'd come out and straight away said you were one of those types of ex-smokers, I wouldn't have bothered in trying to engage in a rational discussion. The Allen Carr brigade and the Daily Fail are not the sort of things I usually waste my time with tbh.

I don't know if you're aware, but your whole tone is very passive aggressive. On the one hand you state it's non of your business and you couldn't care less, and then straight away decide it's reasonable to attach a derogatory label to it (frankenfags). So one minute you're saying you know nothing about the subject, and then the next attaching a nasty label to something you've just said you know nothing about. :shrug: Is this a demonstration of childishness or just plain stupidity? I'm really not trying to be rude here, but I can only see these two options as possible answers.

Here's another person who initially had the same type of opinion as you, but he decided that facts are fairly useful when forming an opinion. Also, he's a doctor. Oh, don't tell me, more bias! :joker:

Right, I think you're done. I could have gone on to say it's been fun.... but it hasn't :( :sleep:

watch?v=nkiaSW8ZR1g

Explain where I contradict myself.
As I said the dairy example was irrelevant so it didn't go over my head at all,it just has nothing to do with this discussion. Whatever conspiracy theory you have about the food industry which if you remember are the ones who say vape oil is safe... The FDA wasn't it you quoted?
Are they so wrong on milk standards and yet so right with everything else?

Why am I 'that' sort of ex smoker? First you intimate I cant have an opinion because I don't have experience of an addictive substance and now I can't because I have, you're not being very fair here terry.
You don't like derogatory terms? I though that was quite witty actually I'm upset now. You were quite derogatory to me too at time and your tone could be described as passive aggressive when you suggested I was joyless and a high horsed moralising hypocrite then :nono:

I didn't say I knew nothing about it to be fair I have done some research and so far I don't find them to be the holy grail as you appear to sorry.
These links also seem to corroborate my concerns https://www.ersnetsecure.org/public/prg_congres.abstract?ww_i_presentation=59718
https://www.ersnetsecure.org/public/prg_congres.abstract?ww_i_presentation=59718