A Vision of Jesus

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm - once again - being friendly to you, and merely asking whichever God YOU believe in to bless you.

i believe in none as none exist.

and blessing?

what is that exactly?

[kirklancaster]

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

What's 'carm'?

[Crimson Dynamo]

What's 'carm'?

http://carm.org/

Its an apologists site that churns out the "evidence for god stuff". Its probably the best one

[kirklancaster]

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

I'm very, very perplexed if the above is true, why there are over 2.2 billion Christians in the world. and why I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of Christian Churches, Cathedrals, Chapels and, Minsters, where these billions worship their Christian God, but I've yet to see a 'Church of The Holy LeatherTrumpet'.

Why is that, do you think?

[lostalex]

well personally, i prefer the blue elephant with 8 arms to a crusty old white man. It's much more fun.

[kirklancaster]

well personally, i prefer the blue elephant with 8 arms to a crusty old white man. It's much more fun.

Whatever floats your boat Alex - Everyone's entitled to their own preferences and personal beliefs, and I would never, ever, try to convert someone away from those and to mine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm very, very perplexed if the above is true, why there are over 2.2 billion Christians in the world. and why I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of Christian Churches, Cathedrals, Chapels and, Minsters, where these billions worship their Christian God, but I've yet to see a 'Church of The Holy LeatherTrumpet'.

Why is that, do you think?


Well i am not sure how anyone defines a christian for a start and quoting numbers from countries like say Nigeria or some such places is more just an exercise in the lack of education in non first world countries. Just as saying well everyone was a church going christian in the UK in the 1800s

What would your definition of a christian be?

[kirklancaster]

Well i am not sure how anyone defines a christian for a start and quoting numbers from countries like say Nigeria or some such places is more just an exercise in the lack of education in non first world countries. Just as saying well everyone was a church going christian in the UK in the 1800s

What would your definition of a christian be?

Anyone who believes in Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anyone who believes in Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?:shrug:

[lostalex]

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?:shrug:
the christ is what jews are still waiting for. god in the form of man who will deliver a new message and free the world from sin. It was promised in the old testament. Christians believe Jesus was the christ, Jews are still waiting for him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the christ is what jews are still waiting for. god in the form of man who will deliver a new message and free the world from sin. It was promised in the old testament. Christians believe Jesus was the christ, Jews are still waiting for him.

So you have to believe Jesus was real as a bloke or have to believe he had super powers based on a book from the ever reliable middle east?:shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?:shrug:

Jesus's name was just 'Jesus' - 'The Christ' means 'anointed one of God' or 'Messiah'.

Islam believes Jesus was a prophet of God, and Christians believe he was The Christ. Judaism disagrees with this.

And now, I have some delicious home made soup and crispy buttered rolls awaiting (thanks to Josy) so I sincerely hope that we three can continue this later - and in the same amicable fashion.

[lostalex]

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

but a blue elephant with 8 arms did exist. i'm sure some indian in a jungle saw an elephant, the lighting (the way the clouds were, the time of day, we all know that sometimes the sky casts strange lights) made it look blue, and probably forest foliage made it look like it had many arms(tree branches that happened to be arranged in a similar pattern to arms). I'm also sure the man made claims that he felt a strange sense of awe, a supernatural feeling even. And I'm sure the young uneducated man believed what he saw. but he didn't see what he thought he saw.


This is how religions begin. trying to explain weird things. Humans don't do very well trying to explain something they've never seen before, they tend to make **** up. why? because the three hardest words for most people to say is "I don't know". they'd rather make **** up rather than just admit that they are clueless and powerless and small and stupid.

but that's what we really are as humans. we are clueless and powerless and small and stupid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jesus's name was just 'Jesus' - 'The Christ' means 'anointed one of God' or 'Messiah'.

Islam believes Jesus was a prophet of God, and Christians believe he was The Christ. Judaism disagrees with this.

And now, I have some delicious home made soup and crispy buttered rolls awaiting (thanks to Josy) so I sincerely hope that we three can continue this later - and in the same amicable fashion.

I would have thought that this god could at least have all his followers following the right god

Its like the whole thing is made up depending on where you live...

[lostalex]

kirk is manipulating things. some people are very manipulative.

[Jules2]

Morning Jules,

I reproduce my answer to LT Jules to save duplication:

It was not a rhetorical question - I genuinely do not know why. I have my own ideas - theory if you will - obviously biased and based upon my faith, but I don't know.

I wanted to discover other viewpoints for the very reason that I wasn't sure.

I would like to think that because she was an atheist and not a religious person (according to her own testimony in articles I have read, and in a documentary which someone on here mentioned) that Christ did actually appear to her.

I am not concerned that the vision she actually saw was an image -- a medieval artists impression -- of the 'Veronica Cloth', because no one can look upon the countenance of God, and if she did 'perceive' a vision of Christ, then her mind would project the image of Christ which she could identify.

Incidentally, the image of Christ - long hair and bearded - on that particular painting, is notable, because it is the sterotypical image that most artists depicted once the image on the Shroud of Turin had become known. Before then, depictions of Christ in art were diverse and generic.

As to the Dead Sea Scrolls, yes, I have always been interested in them, and have a couple of books which I've had for years and have also researched them - as you have Jules.

I have no reason to doubt the scrolls authenticity, or the Copper Scrolls.

Do your ideas on the connection between the Scrolls and Christ come from reading the works of Edmund Wilson Jules?
Hi ya Kirk,

Thank you for replying, I personally would find it hard for Christ to appear to any one person as there must be so many people praying for help. I have no doubt though that she saw part of her higher self.

The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls I am reading are named just that, 7th edition Penguin Classics. I had it downloaded to my Kindle, I havent heard of any specific author but I would guess that you may be questioning E.Wilson?

I am finding it very political and the rules and regulations seem very harsh if one should wander away from the hierarchy goal. What were:wavey: your thoughts on it all?

[Jules2]

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

Hi Kirk,

Can you give the evidence that Jesus was Christ, remember I am not knocking anyones beliefs but like you I am interested in other peoples point of views.

The trouble with reading too many books one tends to get lost in the theories. I have got a lot of thought provoking things through meditation, there was a time when I believed totally in the biblical stories of JC but I outgrew them when I decided to look into different things. I now realise that all things are within, we are our own goal.

An interesting point which please put me right if I am wrong, I learnt bits and pieces of French at school but am not very good....if we take the egoistic I "I am etc." and place it within Jesus between the u and the s, we have Je Suis, now in french this means "I am". Now as je suis belongs to all to me it is saying that all man is capable of thinking for him/herself. JC was a man, he says himself that he was not the son of "God" but his teachings were perhaps to help man, to show him/her a way of equality. We are all answerable for our own "sins" it would be hard for any one person to take on so much.

It is said that the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced.

[Jules2]

http://carm.org/

Its an apologists site that churns out the "evidence for god stuff". Its probably the best one

Oh LT I had a look at your link, not impressed at all.........

[kirklancaster]

Hi Kirk,

Can you give the evidence that Jesus was Christ, remember I am not knocking anyones beliefs but like you I am interested in other peoples point of views.

The trouble with reading too many books one tends to get lost in the theories. I have got a lot of thought provoking things through meditation, there was a time when I believed totally in the biblical stories of JC but I outgrew them when I decided to look into different things. I now realise that all things are within, we are our own goal.

An interesting point which please put me right if I am wrong, I learnt bits and pieces of French at school but am not very good....if we take the egoistic I "I am etc." and place it within Jesus between the u and the s, we have Je Suis, now in french this means "I am". Now as je suis belongs to all to me it is saying that all man is capable of thinking for him/herself. JC was a man, he says himself that he was not the son of "God" but his teachings were perhaps to help man, to show him/her a way of equality. We are all answerable for our own "sins" it would be hard for any one person to take on so much.

It is said that the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced.

I never believed 'totally in the biblical stories of JC Jules or 'totally' in any other Biblical stories per se - I believe in the essence of the bible.

I don't understand your point concerning Jesus though Jules - on the one hand you state that he is not the Son of God, yet you then say that "the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced."

How can this be?

As for my reasons why I believe Jesus is the Christ - I have formulated this view over many years and have considerable compelling evidence which I believe justifies my view. Sadly - because I love discussion - this forum is not the place to air or discuss this subject though, so I must decline your request Jules.

[Kizzy]

I kind of get it, he might be referring to the soul, that might be connected on a higher level but is only accessible in times of great distress or death?
What we consider Christianity seems to be a mish mash of teachings from zoroastrianism and paganism.

[Jules2]

I kind of get it, he might be referring to the soul, that might be connected on a higher level but is only accessible in times of great distress or death?
What we consider Christianity seems to be a mish mash of teachings from zoroastrianism and paganism.

Yes Kizzy, we are at dfferent levels at certain times. Like attracts like is to a certain extent true, we tend to try and fit in so we work on each level of thought . There are naturally certain things which we wouldnt even want to fit in with but the spirit level, the Christ spirit within, is where peace can be found. I definitely believe that JC was trying to teach this, he was trying to show a way. I guess he woud have been considered a good man of his day but as we know many have different views.

With Christianity I believe that we cannot always put todays understanding with things written in the bible. They are possibly truth but meant in a different way, we therefore have to delve deep. :wavey:

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/3204840swsw.gif

[Marsh.]

actually atheism says that we are all small insignificant creatures, How is that arrogant? That's the exact opposite of arrogance or superiority.

Thinking there is a God that loves you and makes you special and gives you special powers by praying to him is arrogant and gives YOU the faLSe sense of superiority,.

Who said believing in God makes us special and gives us powers? :umm2:

Clearly you don't understand a lot of religions half as much as you pretend.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who said believing in God makes us special and gives us powers? :umm2:

Clearly you don't understand a lot of religions half as much as you pretend.

The bible does

[Marsh.]

The bible does

Re-read it my dear.

[lostalex]

Who said believing in God makes us special and gives us powers? :umm2:

Clearly you don't understand a lot of religions half as much as you pretend.

umm, i was raised Christian, i understand it as well if not better than most people.

[Marsh.]

umm, i was raised Christian, i understand it as well if not better than most people.

Show us your powers then. :idc:

[lostalex]

Show us your powers then. :idc:

I am. not very impressive huh?

blame jesus then. :wavey:

[Marsh.]

I am. not very impressive huh?

blame jesus then. :wavey:

Jesus never promised me any powers. :smug:

[lostalex]

Jesus never promised me any powers. :smug:

actual;y he did, he promised you could pray to him(because jesus is god) and he also promised you eternal salvation. those are some pretty cool powers...(if they were real)

[Marsh.]

actual;y he did, he promised you could pray to him(because jesus is god) and he also promised you eternal salvation. those are some pretty cool powers...(if they were real)

Well I pray (as do millions of other people) and we only get to see whether we have eternal salvation after death so.... your point?

[lostalex]

Well I pray (as do millions of other people) and we only get to see whether we have eternal salvation after death so.... your point?

that you are being promised special powers. I already said that, before... do try to keep up.

(and the fact that millions do it doesn't make it any less dumb) (actually the more people that pray just proves how stupid it really is, because not a single prayer has ever been answered, you would think if there was a God he would've answered one by now)

[Marsh.]

that you are being promised special powers. I already said that, before... do try to keep up.

(and the fact that millions do it doesn't make it any less dumb) (actually the more people that pray just proves how stupid it really is, because not a single prayer has ever been answered)

That's where you make your mistake.

Praying isn't about asking Jesus to help you win the lottery. He's not a genie who grants wishes.

This shows how you clearly misunderstood when you were growing up as a Christian.

[lostalex]

That's where you make your mistake.

Praying isn't about asking Jesus to help you win the lottery. He's not a genie who grants wishes.

This shows how you clearly misunderstood when you were growing up as a Christian.

no i didn't misunderstand anything. i understand that it's only when good things happen you praise jesus, and when good things don't happen, you should blame yourself. right?

I understand Christianity perfectly.

[Marsh.]

no i didn't misunderstand anything. i understand that it's only when good things happen you praise jesus, and when good things don't happen, you should blame yourself. right?

No. When have I said that?

Praying to me isn't about asking for things. That's a pretty immature way of looking at it.

If my spirituality was based on asking Jesus to take all of my negatives away and make my life better by magic I'd have stopped praying when I was a child.

[Liam-]

I'm an atheist because Jesus didn't give the power to fly like i prayed for :fist:

No but really, The Bible doesn't promise anyone 'powers' it promises acceptance and tolerance, a constant shoulder to cry on and comfort when it is needed.. nothing less, nothing more.

[lostalex]

I'm an atheist because Jesus didn't give the power to fly like i prayed for :fist:

No but really, The Bible doesn't promise anyone 'powers' it promises acceptance and tolerance, a constant shoulder to cry on and comfort when it is needed.. nothing less, nothing more.

you obviously haven't read the bible. most of the bible is about the majority punishing minorities. it;s mostly about how we should treat other people badly.

then there're some parts that say if you do treat other people badly, then you get to live forever in heaven.

it's pretty ****ed up if you actually read it.

Clearly you haven't read it.

[lostalex]

and god does give super powers to some people in the bible. he could give super powers to everyone if he wanted to. but clearly god prefers suffering.

[Marsh.]

Did he tell you this after you smoked that funny cigarette? :fan:

[Liam-]

and god does give super powers to some people in the bible. he could give super powers to everyone if he wanted to. but clearly god prefers suffering.

So would i if i put so much effort into making it possible for humans to live and some of them turned out to be scumbags.

Natural selection is a wondrous thing, bad things happen to everyone.. it's natural, nothing can stop it and nothing can demand that it stop either.

Like i said, I'm an atheist, but even i find your constant attack against religion and religious people tiring, why does it bother you so much what other people believe? Is it effecting you in any sort of way? apart from the extremeist nutjobs who hate gays and anything slightly different?

The majority of religion is a peaceful believe in an almighty power, the belief that someone out there is looking out for them, the belief that one day, if they're good and accepted, that they'll be accepted into an afterlife where they can be eternally happy, what's so wrong with that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The bible clearly states you can see holy ghosts that you will ascend into some heaven thing after you die and tells you you can speak to an invisible god

Its all bog standard religious hokum of that time

[AnnieK]

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

Sigh

To whom do you refer?

[AnnieK]

Sigh

To whom do you refer?

I refer to believers and non believers as my post states.

[kirklancaster]

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well written Anniek but you won't get your message through.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I refer to believers and non believers as my post states.

Your first line specifies some sort of ridicule. Where is your evidence. All i can see is debate and some normal over the top stuff from alex.

[kirklancaster]

So would i if i put so much effort into making it possible for humans to live and some of them turned out to be scumbags.

Natural selection is a wondrous thing, bad things happen to everyone.. it's natural, nothing can stop it and nothing can demand that it stop either.

Like i said, I'm an atheist, but even i find your constant attack against religion and religious people tiring, why does it bother you so much what other people believe? Is it effecting you in any sort of way? apart from the extremeist nutjobs who hate gays and anything slightly different?

The majority of religion is a peaceful believe in an almighty power, the belief that someone out there is looking out for them, the belief that one day, if they're good and accepted, that they'll be accepted into an afterlife where they can be eternally happy, what's so wrong with that?

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well written Liam - but you won't get your message through.

[Jules2]

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

Hi Annie,

I agree with what you say re people poking fun at others beliefs we are lucky that this has become such a peaceful thread.

If we took away the headings we would just have experiences and know that it is life itself which we are all taking part in. We possibly each have feelings of exaggerated peace and love which the OP suggested happened with the lass, if not it is within each of us to experience it. No mystery just life. All words are man made but imo religion takes possession of the ones which unfortunately cause frustration. :wavey:

[Jules2]

you obviously haven't read the bible. most of the bible is about the majority punishing minorities. it;s mostly about how we should treat other people badly.

then there're some parts that say if you do treat other people badly, then you get to live forever in heaven.

it's pretty ****ed up if you actually read it.

Clearly you haven't read it.

LT if you compare the Scrolls with the bible imo you are correct in your assumption. They seem to consist of punishments things which we would find hard to bear in this day and age. This seems to be where JC came into play, he tried to teach equality. It was all very political, nothing has changed.

[Jules2]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well written Anniek but you won't get your message through.

Hi Kirk, I think it has been a good debate, I doubt very much that anyone wants to change anyone elses point of view but it is great to hear of others views.

[Crimson Dynamo]

LT if you compare the Scrolls with the bible imo you are correct in your assumption. They seem to consist of punishments things which we would find hard to bear in this day and age. This seems to be where JC came into play, he tried to teach equality. It was all very political, nothing has changed.

To be fair the teachings of Jesus are pretty standard fare and totally unachievable most of the time

love everyone, be nice yada yada


Sorry JC but folks worked out all these things long before your wee book was written

I mean love they neighbour? - in London if you even speak to your neighbour that is a bigger miracle than any JC managed

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hi Kirk, I think it has been a good debate, I doubt very much that anyone wants to change anyone elses point of view but it is great to hear of others views.

Yes we dont need Kirk bigging up anyone who vaguely agrees with him ad infinitum

:rolleyes:

[Marsh.]

That's if you take love thy neighbour as literally "the person living next door".

It means everyone we have in our lives. :spin:

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's if you take love thy neighbour as literally "the person living next door".

It means everyone we have in our lives. :spin:

yes Morsh I agree its nonsense


It sounds good but in the real world it kind of falls apart


Unless I am in a parallel world? :fc:

[Marsh.]

yes Morsh I agree its nonsense


It sounds good but in the real world it kind of falls apart


Unless I am in a parallel world? :fc:

Nobody said the world is perfect or that it should be. There's nothing wrong with trying to be a better person. The world wouldn't be in quite the state it is if more people gave it some effort.

[kirklancaster]

that you are being promised special powers. I already said that, before... do try to keep up.

(and the fact that millions do it doesn't make it any less dumb) (actually the more people that pray just proves how stupid it really is, because not a single prayer has ever been answered, you would think if there was a God he would've answered one by now)

There are millions of people who would disagree with your claim - me for one. I've had lots of my prayers answered, and sometimes those answers have been prayer specific, or in other words - could not be attributed to 'chance' coincidence' or 'random luck' .

As Marsh said, if you pray for a lottery win you ain't a getting it, but to make a sweeping statement that ' not a single prayer has ever been answered ' is presumptuous and cannot be substantiated by factual evidence -- something which you regard as an imperative when it comes to matters of faith Alex.

[kirklancaster]

Yes we dont need Kirk bigging up anyone who vaguely agrees with him ad infinitum

:rolleyes:

:fist: Hey, Kirk gives credit where it's due - whether it is to someone who has made him laugh because Kirk has a very broad sense of humour, or to someone who has posted an excellent and valid post. I believe that everyone appreciates being appreciated.

[kirklancaster]

To be fair the teachings of Jesus are pretty standard fare and totally unachievable most of the time

love everyone, be nice yada yada

Sorry JC but folks worked out all these things long before your wee book was written

I mean love they neighbour? - in London if you even speak to your neighbour that is a bigger miracle than any JC managed

Do not the emboldened statements contradict each other?

'Unachievable' implies a goal which cannot be attained, a problem which cannot be solved, whilst 'Worked things out' implies a problem has been solved.

[Kizzy]

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

That works both ways, those who do believe poke fun at those who don't too. And a huge question mark hangs over the word 'belief' as a concept... what defines a believer? god/s? jesus? I don't feel it's a waste of conversation, it's important understand what the other feels is important in their lives, and it's especially culturally important here in the UK to be understanding/accepting of each others faith/beliefs and that can't be achieved by not talking.

[Northern Monkey]

The Bible is very much like TOWIE,Fictional stories based on some real people.......imo.

[Ammi]

The Bible is very much like TOWIE,Fictional stories based on some real people.......imo.

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

[kirklancaster]

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

:joker::joker::joker:

[Niamh.]

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

:laugh3:

[Northern Monkey]

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

Haha.She's defo not an outdoor person.

[Jules2]

LOL Ammi.

Now to me the art of forgiveness could possibly be for ones own sake, if we dwell on a problem with a person it sometimes eats away within. If we forgive it and then leave it to the other person to sort themselves out, we can go on with our lives.

The art of prayer, now this imo once again comes down to the individual reaching positive vibes and avoiding the negative. We draw the good energy to us, I am a strong believer in healing and I do feel that we heal others within our sleep state. We may not realise it but if we look for the positive vibe we can reach it. I have to say because I, along with others, have had many experiences along this line I can accept it but to me it is still life itself reaching out to teach us. I could give many examples.

[Niamh.]

LOL Ammi.

Now to me the art of forgiveness could possibly be for ones own sake, if we dwell on a problem with a person it sometimes eats away within. If we forgive it and then leave it to the other person to sort themselves out, we can go on with our lives.

The art of prayer, now this imo once again comes down to the individual reaching positive vibes and avoiding the negative. We draw the good energy to us, I am a strong believer in healing and I do feel that we heal others within our sleep state. We may not realise it but if we look for the positive vibe we can reach it. I have to say because I, along with others, have had many experiences along this line I can accept it but to me it is still life itself reaching out to teach us. I could give many examples.

Yes exactly, it can make people bitter

[Liam-]

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

:laugh2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes exactly, it can make people bitter

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

[Niamh.]

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

Oh I don't mean keep going back for more, forgive but don't forget ;)

[Jules2]

The thing is Kirk and all, if we say to each other that we wont get our message through, it sort of puts an unequal quality into play. I read it as though we are respecting each other and I think that is great because sometimes it is hard to have to rethink our values. If we want to learn though we take everything into consideration.

[Jules2]

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

I guess it is hard really LT but if we let the bitterness store then we suffer further. I guess the old saying "what comes round goes round" hopefully takes care of an authentic slight.

[kirklancaster]

The thing is Kirk and all, if we say to each other that we wont get our message through, it sort of puts an unequal quality into play. I read it as though we are respecting each other and I think that is great because sometimes it is hard to have to rethink our values. If we want to learn though we take everything into consideration.

With all due respect Jules, with certain people - no matter how many times someone earnestly tries to explain a point in answer to a given question - they absolutely do not take any notice and merely repeat the question but couched in different terms.

And the explanation referred to is just that - an explanation for someone's viewpoint - and does not attempt to convert the questioner to the view of the one giving the explanation.

Such dogmatic refusal to even consider a sincere answer to the question posed, is wearing, does nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, and eventually leads to a reluctance to post through a sense of futility.

[Jules2]

With all due respect Jules, with certain people - no matter how many times someone earnestly tries to explain a point in answer to a given question - they absolutely do not take any notice and merely repeat the question but couched in different terms.

And the explanation referred to is just that - an explanation for someone's viewpoint - and does not attempt to convert the questioner to the view of the one giving the explanation.

Such dogmatic refusal to even consider a sincere answer to the question posed, is wearing, does nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, and eventually leads to a reluctance to post through a sense of futility.

Ok Kirk but tbh I just do not see anyone avoiding an issue. I see everyone on a positive vein and if there is a misunderstanding it can work itself out. Because some of us do not agree it doesnt mean to say that a message wont get through.

[Jules2]

Oh I don't mean keep going back for more, forgive but don't forget ;)

That is a good way of putting it Niamh, once bitten twice shy eh!! :wavey:

[Niamh.]

That is a good way of putting it Niamh, once bitten twice shy eh!! :wavey:

Indeed :love:

[kirklancaster]

Ok Kirk but tbh I just do not see anyone avoiding an issue. I see everyone on a positive vein and if there is a misunderstanding it can work itself out. Because some of us do not agree it doesnt mean to say that a message wont get through.

You either don't really read all the posts on these threads Jules, or you have a Saintly nature worthy of Jesus himself. :hehe:

[Jules2]

You either don't really read all the posts on these threads Jules, or you have a Saintly nature worthy of Jesus himself. :hehe:

I'll give you he he!! :laugh: No saintly nature for me Kirk as you know......no I have read most of the posts but have to admit that each one is relevant to how one feels. You see my point is this with you saying that if the message gets through suggest that you mean all of us. This with respect sounds as though you know better but I know that you know that I know that you do not. :laugh: but that was the message which got through to me. To me Annies point was valid but not for these threads, if a couple are having words with each other then they are giving as good as they get. Is that the beauty of a debate? I would never make a politician but I do prefer to try and see everyones point of view.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder if the woman ever thought


rather than show me a picture of you oh mighty universe creating god, why did you not just stop the rapist?

[Northern Monkey]

Could it possibly have been a lack of oxygen to the brain when she tried to kill herself which caused her halucination of Jesus?
I'm no medical expert,Just a thought.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Could it possibly have been a lack of oxygen to the brain when she tried to kill herself which caused her halucination of Jesus?
I'm no medical expert,Just a thought.

Well naturally there will be a medical explanation. I personally believe that she had a standard christian childhood eduction in terms of Jesus is all good and will save you and in her very hour of need she dragged up a very emotive image from her childhood.

[kirklancaster]

Well naturally there will be a medical explanation. I personally believe that she had a standard christian childhood eduction in terms of Jesus is all good and will save you and in her very hour of need she dragged up a very emotive image from her childhood.

Sit down LT. Pour yourself a glass of Drambuie -- Deep breath -- Are you ready?; In this case, upon further reading, and taking into account all the excellent responses (well, most of them) I think you're very probably right.