"If people voted for policies, the Green Party would win."

[JoshBB]

Article - http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-people-voted-for-policies-the-green-party-would-win-the-next-election-9887199.html

Vote for Policies - http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

The report shows that when people vote for policies and not the party, here are who tops the polls:

1) Green Party - 26.44%
2) Labour - 20.12%
3) Liberal Democrats - 16.87%
4) Conservatives - 14.33%
5) UKIP - 12.02%
6) BNP - 10.22%

However, this is not representative of recent election results. I personally think this is due to unfair coverage and media bias. What do you guys think?

[Shaun]

Have been a Green supporter for a few years now, it's frustrating how sidelined they are by the media.

[Firewire]

I think I'll be voting Greens in the elections but it always feels like such a wasted vote because voting Labour helps get Conservatives out.

[JoshBB]

Have been a Green supporter for a few years now, it's frustrating how sidelined they are by the media.

I think I'll be voting Greens in the elections but it always feels like such a wasted vote because voting Labour helps get Conservatives out.

Didn't know green support even existed on here! But honestly it's not a wasted vote at all, UKIP is splitting the tory vote massively.

[Firewire]

Didn't know green support even existed on here! But honestly it's not a wasted vote at all, UKIP is splitting the tory vote massively.

Quite a few supporters on here

[joeysteele]

I agree Josh, sadly and it is still the case, the 2 main parties with their powerful machines will always likely take over 60% of the votes cast between them.

While that is a lot less than it used to be I doubt it could go much lower.
I also agree the Greens would likely come out on top as to policy too, however while you have big business and the big companies financing the Conservative party and the Unions financing Labour,it will be hard to bring that down much more.

It is a fact, if there is a poor Labour govt, the only effective way to remove it from power and halt its policies is to vote Conservative.
Equally so, with this hated govt. in power now, the only sure way to vote it out of power too is by voting Labour,voting anything else could lead to it being in power again and maybe this time propped up by the sinister UKIP as well.

Until some form of PR is put in place for elections, nothing is likely to change much really, that is where the Lib Dems failed their voters badly again when joining this coalition.
They should have insisted on AV being put in place for the next election and then holding a referendum in the next parliament for a fuller version of PR.
Until that comes about, it will be Labour led or Conservative led governments we get and I hope to high heaven it is not a Conservative led one come 2015.

[Crimson Dynamo]

as no media support greens they have no chance

[arista]

They need a British Leader for a start

[Crimson Dynamo]

They need a British Leader for a start

The scottish guy is a good speaker and was very prominent during the referendum debates

[joeysteele]

They need a British Leader for a start

Well I think their MP who was their leader, Caroline Lucas always talks sense in the Commons and is in my view a really effective and good MP.

If the Conservative party has their way no party would be wise to have a 'British' leader it would need to be a probable English one from an English seat as it would be ridiculous to have a leader and PM, who was then unable to vote as to policy on English matters because they are not English or representing an only English seat.

[arista]

Well I think their MP who was their leader, Caroline Lucas always talks sense in the Commons and is in my view a really effective and good MP.

If the Conservatives party has their way no party would be wise to have a 'British' leader it would need to be a probable English one from an English seat as it would be ridiculous to have a leader and PM, who was then unable to vote as to policy on English matters because they are not English or representing an only English seat.

Lucas
is a fool

She thinks the Country can be Powered without Nukes


Stupid Fecking Cow

[James]

I looked at the policy list for the Economy for the Greens. http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/policies-browser/party


This Party will implement a £45 billion investment to create 1 million jobs and lay the foundations for a sustainable and fair society. As part of this we will;

Regulate banking and close tax loopholes.
Invest massively in renewable energy and energy efficiency.
Invest in public transport and in waste management.
Create more affordable housing for rent.
Provide free insulation for homes, schools and hospitals.
Introduce green workforce training
Provide decent pensions and free social care for older people.


People are going to look at that list and think that looks great, and select it as the best set of policies. Trouble is, there is no mention of how they are going to pay for it.

It's easy to come up with policies that people will agree with if you know you aren't going to be elected, and don't have to implement it.

[joeysteele]

I looked at the policy list for the Economy for the Greens. http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/policies-browser/party



People are going to look at that list and think that looks great, and select it as the best set of policies. Trouble is, there is no mention of how they are going to pay for it.

It's easy to come up with policies that people will agree with if you know you aren't going to be elected, and don't have to implement it.

That is all very true too.

[Kizzy]

I looked at the policy list for the Economy for the Greens. http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/policies-browser/party



People are going to look at that list and think that looks great, and select it as the best set of policies. Trouble is, there is no mention of how they are going to pay for it.

It's easy to come up with policies that people will agree with if you know you aren't going to be elected, and don't have to implement it.

They have said in the opening line, close tax loopholes.
It's a shame there aren't more green MP's at least, to give a voice to those who don't want nuclear energy for instance.

[swinearefine]

I support the US green party and it's so frustrating, most people I talk to aren't even aware of its existence or they have no idea who the Green presidential nominee is, and if they really knew more about their policies they would support them.. but the tides are turning, especially here in Maine which has the highest percent of greens in the US (a whopping 4%). Well the southern half of Maine does, the Northern half which I live in is a conservative ****hole.

[JoshBB]

I support the US green party and it's so frustrating, most people I talk to aren't even aware of its existence or they have no idea who the Green presidential nominee is, and if they really knew more about their policies they would support them.. but the tides are turning, especially here in Maine which has the highest percent of greens in the US (a whopping 4%). Well the southern half of Maine does, the Northern half which I live in is a conservative ****hole.

I would truly hate to have american politics. It's practically impossible to break out of the 2-party system over there.

[joeysteele]

I would truly hate to have american politics. It's practically impossible to break out of the 2-party system over there.

I agree with you again JoshBB.
We are getting, very sadly, near to it here,with our elections treated by the media as a Presidential type thing between party leaders.

I would far prefer to hear from all spokesman for each party throughout the campaign and get back to looking at which party is better in Govt. because of its policies and not because of its leader.

The even more annoying thing about that is the fact that all the 3 main parties have unpopular leaders and the concentrating on them only in general elections is really tedious and does nothing for UK politics either.

[James]

They have said in the opening line, close tax loopholes.
It's a shame there aren't more green MP's at least, to give a voice to those who don't want nuclear energy for instance.

Yeah, but that is pretty vague though. I'm sure the other parties promise that also. There's a mention about removing tax relief on private pensions in another of the Green's list of policies but it doesn't appear under Economy.

If they have ambitions to get elected, and not just be a party that gets about 5% in the polls there will be greater scrutiny about their policies.

[Kizzy]

the opposite for the tories, they get elected for creating tax loopholes ;)

maybe they should just lie, just make up some random rubbish that they know will get them elected? That's proven to work.

[arista]

They have said in the opening line, close tax loopholes.
It's a shame there aren't more green MP's at least, to give a voice to those who don't want nuclear energy for instance.


That alone is So Stupid
you would have no power without that

[Northern Monkey]

I'm not a fan tbh.They have some good policies which would more than likely never happen when reality hit them in the face.
We would end up with thousands more of those ugly and unreliable wind farms plaguing our beaches and country side,Have you seen these things in the sea?They're awful and they don't produce enough energy to power our country alone.They would scrap our nuclear power stations leaving us reliant on the weather with no back up,Power cuts galore!
They would fill our already congested roads with more bus and cycle lanes making over crowded roads even worse.
They would more than likely try and tax drivers off the road.We already pay waay too much road tax and petrol prices are daylight robbery.
Their airy fairy policies from a glance seem all lovely and nice but in reality would be a nightmare.

[swinearefine]

I would truly hate to have american politics. It's practically impossible to break out of the 2-party system over there.

this. And if you say you support the Green Party or another third-party like the Libertarians or Peace and Freedom (go Roseanne <3) you get derided as wasting your vote when actually you're just doing some thinking outside of what the media reports. Jill Stein, the Green presidential nominee in 2012, was arrested for just trying to enter the debates.

[Mystic Mock]

BNP got 10.22% wtf?:shocked:

And to answer the OP, Labour and The Conservatives will never allow a party to rival them, because the UKIP vote will quickly die once Farage leaves as the rest of the party is filled with a bunch of loons.

[Kizzy]

That alone is So Stupid
you would have no power without that

It is not stupid, if the councils had more power and the country was divided into boroughs with each being responsible for generating their own electricity?

The times we live in you have to think outside the box a little, gone are the days of exploitation as we are the ones being exploited. Some are just too blinkered to see it, sustainable energy never runs out and the cost never increases.. bar some maintenance. Nobody wants to be reliant on the cartel energy companies and yet not enough is being done to aid the move from them.

[joeysteele]

BNP got 10.22% wtf?:shocked:

And to answer the OP, Labour and The Conservatives will never allow a party to rival them, because the UKIP vote will quickly die once Farage leaves as the rest of the party is filled with a bunch of loons.

You make a good point as to Nigel Farage going as leader,which actually may happen if he fails to win in Thanet in the 2015 election.
Possibly Douglas Carswell could take the reigns after him but I agree with you,UKIP could sink back as to votes once Farage goes.

Which makes all this frantic following of his policies by the Conservatives in the main and to a degree Labour too, all the more foolish.

The only thing I am not sure as to your post was that both parties would never allow a party to rival them.
In the 2010 Labour manifesto was a firm commitment to hold a referendum as to the AV voting system.
Had they won or been able to form a coalition with the Lib dems, I do think AV may have got supported in the referendum.
AV would have probably meant no party really got an overall majority again in elections so coalition would be the norm.
Exept when a party was well ahead and a landslide likely.

It was a clever move by the Conservatives to get a lot of the extreme and unpopular policies going through parliament,having the Lib Dems throw out all they stood for and supporting same and then have Nick Clegg running the referendum for AV as all that took place as the Lib Dems popularity started to crumble dramatically.

Obviously the 2 main parties want to be in govt. however it could have been advantageous to Labour for AV to be in place as it would have meant, working with the Lib Dems as to all the Lib Dems stood for at that time, would have been pretty easy to do.

There will never however be AV or any PR system proposed by the Conservative party.
They think they have a divine right to always be in govt. Hence the fact they treated parliament after the 2010 election as if they had won it outright rather than failed to win it conclusively.

A simple fact they still ignore as to the extreme heartless policies they still embark on with their arrogant and dismissive attitude towards all criticism of said policies for all quarters the criticism and warnings come from.

[arista]

It is not stupid, if the councils had more power and the country was divided into boroughs with each being responsible for generating their own electricity?

The times we live in you have to think outside the box a little, gone are the days of exploitation as we are the ones being exploited. Some are just too blinkered to see it, sustainable energy never runs out and the cost never increases.. bar some maintenance. Nobody wants to be reliant on the cartel energy companies and yet not enough is being done to aid the move from them.


There is No Network set up
for such a dream

[Kizzy]

No there isn't, but there was no fracking set up not long ago was there?... things can move very quickly when it needs to.

[arista]

No there isn't, but there was no fracking set up not long ago was there?... things can move very quickly when it needs to.



In the dizzy eyes of Lucas
you may say that.


But Today in the UK
there are no long term plans
for Unstable Green Dreams.



Fact

[Kizzy]

Through MY eyes I see that actually.

I am aware there are no plans as not enough of the current set of lizards in charge would make enough money from that. It wouldn't benefit them enough to propose it, that's why it's not a reality NOT that it wouldn't work.

[arista]

The Green Party will not be
in power of England in the next 20 years

So any such dreams are not worthy

[Kizzy]

The Green Party will not be
in power of England in the next 20 years

So any such dreams are not worthy

They are worthy and viable, it's our increasingly corrupt government that holds these innovative advancements back.

[arista]

They are worthy and viable, it's our increasingly corrupt government that holds these innovative advancements back.



Yes 13 Wasted years of New Labour

[Kizzy]

Yes 13 Wasted years of New Labour

And 4yrs of the most damaging party of the last century.

[joeysteele]

And 4yrs of the most damaging party of the last century.

Not forgetting the worst ones.
The whole unbroken run of 18 wasted years before the 13 years of Labour either Kizzy, which actually was the main reason for the loss of industrial heartlands and communities, and the start of the greedy companies who bought the energy utilities cheaply and then set out to begin charging the earth to their customers over time.

[Mystic Mock]

You make a good point as to Nigel Farage going as leader,which actually may happen if he fails to win in Thanet in the 2015 election.
Possibly Douglas Carswell could take the reigns after him but I agree with you,UKIP could sink back as to votes once Farage goes.

Which makes all this frantic following of his policies by the Conservatives in the main and to a degree Labour too, all the more foolish.

The only thing I am not sure as to your post was that both parties would never allow a party to rival them.
In the 2010 Labour manifesto was a firm commitment to hold a referendum as to the AV voting system.
Had they won or been able to form a coalition with the Lib dems, I do think AV may have got supported in the referendum.
AV would have probably meant no party really got an overall majority again in elections so coalition would be the norm.
Exept when a party was well ahead and a landslide likely.

It was a clever move by the Conservatives to get a lot of the extreme and unpopular policies going through parliament,having the Lib Dems throw out all they stood for and supporting same and then have Nick Clegg running the referendum for AV as all that took place as the Lib Dems popularity started to crumble dramatically.

Obviously the 2 main parties want to be in govt. however it could have been advantageous to Labour for AV to be in place as it would have meant, working with the Lib Dems as to all the Lib Dems stood for at that time, would have been pretty easy to do.

There will never however be AV or any PR system proposed by the Conservative party.
They think they have a divine right to always be in govt. Hence the fact they treated parliament after the 2010 election as if they had won it outright rather than failed to win it conclusively.

A simple fact they still ignore as to the extreme heartless policies they still embark on with their arrogant and dismissive attitude towards all criticism of said policies for all quarters the criticism and warnings come from.

A brilliant post Joey, some very valid points in your post.

Tory party I find to be very sinister personally as well.

[Kizzy]

Not forgetting the worst ones.
The whole unbroken run of 18 wasted years before the 13 years of Labour either Kizzy, which actually was the main reason for the loss of industrial heartlands and communities and the start of the greedy companies who bought the energy utilities cheaply and then set out to begin charging the earth to their customers over time.

Amen to that Joey! :worship:

[orwellkafkararara]

The UK should dump the outdated FPP system (which is prone to gerrymandering, vote wastage and vote splitting) and replace it with a proportional system (either MMP or proportional representation) where votes count, and parliament is more representative of the views of the people.

[orwellkafkararara]

New Zealand replaced the British FPP system with MMP (and had their first MMP election in 1996). In New Zealand's 2014 elections, the Green Party won 14 of the 121 seats in parliament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election,_2014