School nativity plays 'pushed aside'

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79425000/jpg/_79425610_005076145.jpg


The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.

Parents on Netmums have given examples of characters such as spacemen, Elvis Presley and footballers being introduced to the nativity story.

There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".

Netmums co-founder Siobhan Freegard said parents were concerned Christmas traditions were being "pushed aside".

-----------------------------------

:idc: The "Christians" hijacked this festival (Saturnalia) from the Romans from the 4th C to try and take the pagan masses with them so Christmas is not really about baby J and his fake birthday...


What do you think?

[Kyle]

Not reight bothered to be honest if they keep the religious elements, that's what we all know it as anyway.

I had fun and it didn't turn me into a Christian, just seems like one of those 'causes' that people like to drum up nowadays.

[kirklancaster]

Not reight bothered to be honest if they keep the religious elements, that's what we all know it as anyway.

I had fun and it didn't turn me into a Christian, just seems like one of those 'causes' that people like to drum up nowadays.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

This latest 'innovation is more madness, Christmas means 'Christ's' 'Mass' or 'Mass or Festival of Christ' . :shrug:

There is no getting away from this - that is the true origin and literal meaning of the word Christmas.

And it's as you say above Kyle - it does not matter whether the religious meaning is observed or not, there is no need to change the tradition or Nativity Story.

What valid reason is there for this? Because it is not only offensive to all Christians, but is yet more dangerous erosion by stealth of our traditional way of life by malignant and covert parties.

[arista]

Is this the USA problem LT?

[kirklancaster]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79425000/jpg/_79425610_005076145.jpg

idc: The "Christians" hijacked this festival (Saturnalia) from the Romans from the 4th C to try and take the pagan masses with them so Christmas is not really about baby J and his fake birthday...

What do you think?

Yes you're almost right. The 25th of December was a Pagan festival (and still is to Pagans) but saying that "Christmas is not really about baby J and his fake birthday" is complete idiocy.

Christmas means 'Christ's' 'Mass' or 'Mass or Festival of Christ' .

There is no getting away from this - that is the true origin and literal meaning of the word Christmas.

The fact that the newly converted Roman emperor Constantine chose December 25th as Christmas day does not alter the fact that Christmas is all about celebrating Christ's birthday.

Constantine wanted to convert all his subjects to Christianity, and what better way to do it than place the official day to celebrate Christ, on a day on which which most of his subjects already celebrated their - soon to be outlawed - existing 'religion' .

It's far easier to make horses drink a different type of water if you merely replace that in their usual trough, rather than trying to totally educate them to use another trough in a different location.

This fact however, does not mean that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ's 'birthday' - it is all to do with it. A false date, or Pagan day or not.

What's more - and you can mock - this latest idiocy is far more than than being merely offensive to all Christians -- it is yet more 'baby steps', almost imperceptible, covert destruction of our Western Democratic way of life by deep rooted, long ensconced Islamic 'Fifth Columnists' who have permeated into just about every position of real power in this country since the 1960's.

Laugh away - and perhaps we'll debate how comical my contention is on another thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes you're almost right. The 25th of December was a Pagan festival (and still is to Pagans) but saying that "Christmas is not really about baby J and his fake birthday" is complete idiocy.

Christmas means 'Christ's' 'Mass' or 'Mass or Festival of Christ' .

There is no getting away from this - that is the true origin and literal meaning of the word Christmas.

The fact that the newly converted Roman emperor Constantine chose December 25th as Christmas day does not alter the fact that Christmas is all about celebrating Christ's birthday.

Constantine wanted to convert all his subjects to Christianity, and what better way to do it than place the official day to celebrate Christ, on a day on which which most of his subjects already celebrated their - soon to be outlawed - existing 'religion' .

It's far easier to make horses drink a different type of water if you merely replace that in their usual trough, rather than trying to totally educate them to use another trough in a different location.

This fact however, does not mean that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ's 'birthday' - it is all to do with it. A false date, or Pagan day or not.

What's more - and you can mock - this latest idiocy is far more than than being merely offensive to all Christians -- it is yet more 'baby steps', almost imperceptible, covert destruction of our Western Democratic way of life by deep rooted, long ensconced Islamic 'Fifth Columnists' who have permeated into just about every position of real power in this country since the 1960's.

Laugh away - and perhaps we'll debate how comical my contention is on another thread.

yes top marks the actual word christmas is linked to that but that is it, santa, snow, trees, presents, holidays, celebration, family etc is nothing to do with Christianity

so you can have the semantics and we will have the fun:dance:

[Niamh.]

Honestly, Santa is the main focus of Christmas for most people I know :hehe:

[Kizzy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/holydays/wintersolstice.shtml

I don't think it's a coincidence that they chose that week to install 'Christmas' either.

Let the schools do what they like.

[Niamh.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/holydays/wintersolstice.shtml

I don't think it's a coincidence that they chose that week to install 'Christmas' either.

Let the schools do what they like.

Oh interesting, so they basically just hijacked the whole thing :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/holydays/wintersolstice.shtml

I don't think it's a coincidence that they chose that week to install 'Christmas' either.

Let the schools do what they like.

The puritans never celebrated christmas and neither did half of the North of Scotland for many a year, my relations in Sutherland never did christmas due to its pagan nature.

[Niamh.]

The puritans never celebrated christmas and neither did half of the North of Scotland for many a year, my relations in Sutherland never did christmas due to its pagan nature.

Personally I just like having a holiday and a celebration of friends and family, giving gifts, eating and drinking lots and having time off work. I don't really care too much how it came about

[Kizzy]

Personally I just like having a holiday and a celebration of friends and family, giving gifts, eating and drinking lots and having time off work. I don'y really care too much how it came about

Exactly, you give thanks for your hearth and home, for what you have and those you love.
Without provisos :)

[kirklancaster]

yes top marks the actual word christmas is linked to that but that is it, santa, snow, trees, presents, holidays, celebration, family etc is nothing to do with Christianity

so you can have the semantics and we will have the fun:dance:

:joker:

My house looks like Santa's Grotto inside - there's a decorated tree, garlands festooning the mantle and stair balustrade, snowmen, animatronic santa on his sleigh and rudolph, giant nutcracker solidiers, holly wreaths and bells and candles everywhere.

The wine rack's full, ditto the freezers and fridge already, so believe me, we celebrate Christmas with our family and friends with the same 'bells and whistles' that you do, but in one corner of my room, I have the Nativity crib and porcelain figures of the baby Jesus, Joseph and Mary, Angels, shepherds and Magi, and even the 'lowing cattle'- all beautifully illuminated by a candle in a red glass holder.

Do I observe the Birth of Christ and celebrate it amidst all the secular partying - yes.

Do I ever try to enforce or coerce my family or guests to? No never.

Old heathen you, would be as welcome in my home at Christmas as anyone, and I would genuinely love merry-making with you and never mention Christ.

But I will fight to the death to protect my Western Democratic rights to have that Nativity Crib in my room as much as my choice to have the Santa's, Snowmen, Bells and Whistles.

[Cherie]

It's our tradition though, even if you don't believe in the story, it is something that has been handed down through the generations and it is a shame that we seem to be so weak and lily livered in this country that we are ashamed of our traditions and are slowly turning into a mini America, soon it will be "the holidays", Spring Break is becoming more familiar than Easter holidays, shops have jumped on "the black Friday" bandwagon like shopping was going out of fashion or something, I loved seeing my kids in their nativity plays and have videos and pictures of them doing it, not sure seeing them dressed up as Elvis at Christmas time would evoke the same memories :idc:

[kirklancaster]

Honestly, Santa is the main focus of Christmas for most people I know :hehe:

Yes Niamh - That is one meaning of the magic of Christmas to a lot of people now - the Santas and Snowmen and Rudolphs, just as it is in my home - especially when my kids were young.

But to billions of Christians around the world, there is another meaning to Christmas; the original and true meaning - a Celebration of The Christ's birthday (the date is irrelevant).

To most Christians, Christmas is not about celebrating one meaning to the exclusion of the other meaning. Most of us do both.

I am no miserable Calvinistic bible-basher just because I believe in Christ, I'm anything but, yet I am deeply offended at any attempt to eradicate the core of my belief by re-writing the Nativity story and replacing its central figures with Buzz Light Year or Elvis characters.

The 'commercial' and secular side of Christmas is not religious, yet imagine how every parent would react if - by stealth - sinister forces could be seen slowly over the years trying to enforce a situation where Santa, Rudolph and Snowmen and Christmas trees were banned?

What right has anyone to try take way any other person's freedom or forcibly alter or eradicate the fundamental core of their belief system?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes Niamh - That is one meaning of the magic of Christmas to a lot of people now - the Santas and Snowmen and Rudolphs, just as it is in my home - especially when my kids were young.

But to billions of Christians around the world, there is another meaning to Christmas; the original and true meaning - a Celebration of The Christ's birthday (the date is irrelevant).

To most Christians, Christmas is not about celebrating one meaning to the exclusion of the other meaning. Most of us do both.

I am no miserable Calvinistic bible-basher just because I believe in Christ, I'm anything but, yet I am deeply offended at any attempt to eradicate the core of my belief by re-writing the Nativity story and replacing its central figures with Buzz Light Year or Elvis characters.

The 'commercial' and secular side of Christmas is not religious, yet imagine how every parent would react if - by stealth - sinister forces could be seen slowly over the years trying to enforce a situation where Santa, Rudolph and Snowmen and Christmas trees were banned?

What right has anyone to try take way any other person's freedom or forcibly alter or eradicate the fundamental core of their belief system?

All the Christians i have ever met, and i have met a fair few, maybe go to a midnight mass, some even to church on the day for 20 mins and after that get wired in to the pagan side of things for the duration.

They spend far more time shopping for gifts than thinking about baby jesus and his naughty mum.

[kirklancaster]

The puritans never celebrated christmas and neither did half of the North of Scotland for many a year, my relations in Sutherland never did christmas due to its pagan nature.

OFFS - Christmas has no 'Pagan Nature' no more than 'Paganism' has a Christian nature.

You already know yourself - and I have also explained - why Constantine chose the 25th of December as 'Christmas' day, so although the other things you state may be facts, they are built on a foundation of fallacy.

[kirklancaster]

All the Christians i have ever met, and i have met a fair few, maybe go to a midnight mass, some even to church on the day for 20 mins and after that get wired in to the pagan side of things for the duration.

They spend far more time shopping for gifts than thinking about baby jesus and his naughty mum.

You are virtually paraphrasing what I have already said.:shrug: Although it's hardly factual to be calling it the 'Pagan side'. The celebration of Christmas - as it is now - has its roots in many different traditions of which paganism is just a part.

[kirklancaster]

It's our tradition though, even if you don't believe in the story, it is something that has been handed down through the generations and it is a shame that we seem to be so weak and lily livered in this country that we are ashamed of our traditions and are slowly turning into a mini America, soon it will be "the holidays", Spring Break is becoming more familiar than Easter holidays, shops have jumped on "the black Friday" bandwagon like shopping was going out of fashion or something, I loved seeing my kids in their nativity plays and have videos and pictures of them doing it, not sure seeing them dressed up as Elvis at Christmas time would evoke the same memories :idc:

Well put Cherie.

[MTVN]

The puritans never celebrated christmas and neither did half of the North of Scotland for many a year, my relations in Sutherland never did christmas due to its pagan nature.

Mainly because of it was seen a throwback to ungodly Catholic displays of unnecessary extravagance though, as far as I know there was never any real qualms over its paganism

[Josy]

It's our tradition though, even if you don't believe in the story, it is something that has been handed down through the generations and it is a shame that we seem to be so weak and lily livered in this country that we are ashamed of our traditions and are slowly turning into a mini America, soon it will be "the holidays", Spring Break is becoming more familiar than Easter holidays, shops have jumped on "the black Friday" bandwagon like shopping was going out of fashion or something, I loved seeing my kids in their nativity plays and have videos and pictures of them doing it, not sure seeing them dressed up as Elvis at Christmas time would evoke the same memories :idc:

Fantastic post Cherie

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mainly because of it was seen a throwback to ungodly Catholic displays of unnecessary extravagance though, as far as I know there was never any real qualms over its paganism

that's right blame the papes


actually, yes lets


:fist:

[kirklancaster]

Mainly because of it was seen a throwback to ungodly Catholic displays of unnecessary extravagance though, as far as I know there was never any real qualms over its paganism

'The truth is out there' - and MTVN just said it. The aversion was due to Catholicism not Paganism.

[Crimson Dynamo]

'The truth is out there' - and MTVN just said it. The aversion was due to Catholicism not Paganism.

Thats what I love about the Christians, they love splitting up and then hating on each other

[kirklancaster]

Thats what I love about the Christians, they love splitting up and then hating on each other

:evilgrin:

[Northern Monkey]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

This latest 'innovation is more madness, Christmas means 'Christ's' 'Mass' or 'Mass or Festival of Christ' . :shrug:

There is no getting away from this - that is the true origin and literal meaning of the word Christmas.

And it's as you say above Kyle - it does not matter whether the religious meaning is observed or not, there is no need to change the tradition or Nativity Story.

What valid reason is there for this? Because it is not only offensive to all Christians, but is yet more dangerous erosion by stealth of our traditional way of life by malignant and covert parties.

This^
I am no Christian but i understand what Christmas is and it's how i've been brought up to recognise it.Although i don't necessarily believe the Nativity it is at the core of what Christmas is.To me the Nativity is as far fetched as Santa Claus but i have a big Santa on my wall just as i have a small pot Nativity scene.I have photos and memories of being a sheperd in the Nativity play.Multiculturalism does'nt mean wiping out the traditions of the host country but accepting them and respecting them just as we build Mosques and Gurdwara's in every city and accept those religious traditions.We live in a Christian country and just because we don't all believe it does'nt mean we should'nt respect it.
Imagine a large population of Europeans moving to Pakistan and trying to change the name of Ramadan or Eid,That **** would'nt fly over there and why should it here?

[Tom4784]

I imagine the CofE schools will still stick to the traditional nativity but it's not surprising to see other schools deviate from it. When I was in Primary School I hated doing the Nativity apart from one year when they changed it up a bit.

When you're made to do it every year you've got to spice it up a bit to keep the kids interested.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am amazed no school has tried to do a mock beheading take on the nativity

[Cherie]

I imagine the CofE schools will still stick to the traditional nativity but it's not surprising to see other schools deviate from it. When I was in Primary School I hated doing the Nativity apart from one year when they changed it up a bit.

When you're made to do it every year you've got to spice it up a bit to keep the kids interested.

Really, there doesn't seem to be the same need to spice up Halloween, kids are quite happy to dress up year on year and pretend to be the walking dead, and we know that doesn't happen either, its all down to this country's problem with Christianity, as Eyeball Paul has said we are practically falling over backwards to embrace EID and Diwali, but they too are based on stories so I really don't get why people who have no interest in it keep trying to get rid of it, I don't have any interest in EID or Diwali but am happy to let people get on with it. :idc

[Ammi]

...lots of schools don't do traditional Christmas Nativities and haven't done so for a long time..every year I mean...they just do a Christmas Production/Play which varies each time ...sometimes it is a Nativity but it could also be more just 'in the spirit of Christmas'....

[JoshBB]

Kids enjoy it, leave them be. Yes it's religious but you don't need to be a christian to celebrate christmas traditions.

[Northern Monkey]

...lots of schools don't do traditional Christmas Nativities and haven't done so for a long time..every year I mean...they just do a Christmas Production/Play which varies each time ...sometimes it is a Nativity but it could also be more just 'in the spirit of Christmas'....

Yeah and that's fair enough if it's by choice.But it should be a choice.If a school wants to do a modern take then that's cool but they also should be able to do a traditional Nativity if they so choose without feeling outside pressure to censor the religious content so we don't upset other religions.Our country bends over backwards to accomodate other cultures but we should'nt be forced to forget our own.Imo.

[Northern Monkey]

I am amazed no school has tried to do a mock beheading take on the nativity

:joker:Nothing would surprise me these days.

[kirklancaster]

Yeah and that's fair enough if it's by choice.But it should be a choice.If a school wants to do a modern take then that's cool but they also should be able to do a traditional Nativity if they so choose without feeling outside pressure to censor the religious content so we don't upset other religions.Our country bends over backwards to accomodate other cultures but we should'nt be forced to forget our own.Imo.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well put Paul.

When it comes to 'upsetting other religions', immigrant 'Cultures' or 'Creeds', I am getting very tired of having to be on the defensive as an English Christian in my own country. A country which just happens to be England, which just happens to still be a Western Christian Democracy - and always will be if I have anything to do with it.

None of the many subtle and not so subtle alterations to our democratic way of life, our customs and traditions, even our laws, over the past 60 years have happened by chance, but slowly and oh so surely, 'Englishness' if not 'Britishness' is disappearing, and it's almost as if some people are now 'ashamed' to be either.

Schools should leave Christmas Nativity plays alone or completely stop performing them and perform something which will better appease and please their School Governors, 'Power Parents' , and Local Councillors -- how about 'The Life And Times Of The Prophet Muhammad'? That should keep everybody happy.

[Marsh.]

Remove the religious figures?

Uh, they do realise what the nativity is based on, right?

I understand them doing a Christmas play/concert that isn't a nativity but it's pointless to try and "modernise" the nativity itself because it defeats the purpose.

[Ammi]

Yeah and that's fair enough if it's by choice.But it should be a choice.If a school wants to do a modern take then that's cool but they also should be able to do a traditional Nativity if they so choose without feeling outside pressure to censor the religious content so we don't upset other religions.Our country bends over backwards to accomodate other cultures but we should'nt be forced to forget our own.Imo.

..yeah it is totally by choice and quite often also chosen by the children themselves..(the school council..)...they're given the choice of a Nativity or an alternative and they quite often choose the alternative ..but it's always a good children's Christmas Story as well and with a mixture of traditional songs and some more current ones ...personally I think it makes it more interesting for all of us..staff/parents and children, rather than doing the same thing every year ...

[Northern Monkey]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well put Paul.

When it comes to 'upsetting other religions', immigrant 'Cultures' or 'Creeds', I am getting very tired of having to be on the defensive as an English Christian in my own country. A country which just happens to be England, which just happens to still be a Western Christian Democracy - and always will be if I have anything to do with it.

None of the many subtle and not so subtle alterations to our democratic way of life, our customs and traditions, even our laws, over the past 60 years have happened by chance, but slowly and oh so surely, 'Englishness' if not 'Britishness' is disappearing, and it's almost as if some people are now 'ashamed' to be either.

Schools should leave Christmas Nativity plays alone or completely stop performing them and perform something which will better appease and please their School Governors, 'Power Parents' , and Local Councillors -- how about 'The Life And Times Of The Prophet Muhammad'? That should keep everybody happy.

Very true:clap1:

[Samm]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Well put Paul.

When it comes to 'upsetting other religions', immigrant 'Cultures' or 'Creeds', I am getting very tired of having to be on the defensive as an English Christian in my own country. A country which just happens to be England, which just happens to still be a Western Christian Democracy - and always will be if I have anything to do with it.

None of the many subtle and not so subtle alterations to our democratic way of life, our customs and traditions, even our laws, over the past 60 years have happened by chance, but slowly and oh so surely, 'Englishness' if not 'Britishness' is disappearing, and it's almost as if some people are now 'ashamed' to be either.

Schools should leave Christmas Nativity plays alone or completely stop performing them and perform something which will better appease and please their School Governors, 'Power Parents' , and Local Councillors -- how about 'The Life And Times Of The Prophet Muhammad'? That should keep everybody happy.

Nobody I know cares about Christianity at xmas and stuff that much so it's not a massive deal, there shouldn't be just one religion to celebrate at xmas either, I have lit never talked about religion on here but I know a few people who celebrate xmas in a different way and your making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas?

[the truth]

Very true:clap1:

all these over liberal atheists tub thumping prats are achieving is to destroy Christianity, undermine our own laws, beliefs and culture. which in turn opens the way for radical islam. these cowardly tub thumping radical liberal atheists fools will of course fail spectacularly to treat island and judaism for fear of reprisals. so not only do they believe in nothing and undermine and weaken our entire country theyre also complete and utter cowards who embolden the radical hard line bigots from the extreme religions. thus making us all even more vulnerable to the very principles these idot liberals pretend to oppose. twats

[the truth]

Nobody I know cares about Christianity at xmas and stuff that much so it's not a massive deal, there shouldn't be just one religion to celebrate at xmas either, I have lit never talked about religion on here but I know a few people who celebrate xmas in a different way and your making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas?

what complete and utter nonsens. Christmas is about CHRIST. not islamd or anything else. deary me liberal drivel.

[armand.kay]

My school never did a nativity play the year 5 would just do a different Christmas play every year. My year 5 group did A Christmas carol.

[Marsh.]

Nobody I know cares about Christianity at xmas and stuff that much so it's not a massive deal, there shouldn't be just one religion to celebrate at xmas either, I have lit never talked about religion on here but I know a few people who celebrate xmas in a different way and your making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas?

Christmas is about the birth of Jesus so the Hindu's can **** off. :inamood:

[kirklancaster]

Christmas is about the birth of Jesus so the Hindu's can **** off. :inamood:

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

I fecking love you Marshy - mood or not.

[kirklancaster]

My school never did a nativity play the year 5 would just do a different Christmas play every year. My year 5 group did A Christmas carol.

Exactly - No problem with that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Im just posti g to see if my name has changed

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh good

[kirklancaster]

what complete and utter nonsens. Christmas is about CHRIST. not islamd or anything else. deary me liberal drivel.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[kirklancaster]

Oh good

:laugh2:

Nuts. (love nuts at Chrimbo - all kinds:hehe:)

[the truth]

My school never did a nativity play the year 5 would just do a different Christmas play every year. My year 5 group did A Christmas carol.

no doubt your old school will be doing muhammad plays soon , or else

[armand.kay]

no doubt your old school will be doing muhammad plays soon , or else
No. Muslims wouldn't want their prophet to be degraded like that.

[Marsh.]

No. Muslims wouldn't want their prophet to be degraded like that.

http://musicblog.vh1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/iggy.gif

[Cherie]

..yeah it is totally by choice and quite often also chosen by the children themselves..(the school council..)...they're given the choice of a Nativity or an alternative and they quite often choose the alternative ..but it's always a good children's Christmas Story as well and with a mixture of traditional songs and some more current ones ...personally I think it makes it more interesting for all of us..staff/parents and children, rather than doing the same thing every year ...

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger :laugh:

[Marsh.]

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger :laugh:

:joker:

[kirklancaster]

Nobody I know cares about Christianity at xmas and stuff that much so it's not a massive deal, there shouldn't be just one religion to celebrate at xmas either, I have lit never talked about religion on here but I know a few people who celebrate xmas in a different way and your making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas?

I'm 'making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas' - because there is -- Christianity. The clue is in the name.

It's not called AllahMas or Siddhartha Gautamamas or Quatermass - it's called Christ Mas, meaning The Mass of Christ, or Festival of Christ, and is specifically to celebrate the birth (and death) of Jesus Christ. So it is a Christian Festivity.

If people choose not to observe the true meaning of Christmas then that's up to them. Just don't try to alter or eradicate Christian traditions and ridicule Christian beliefs on one of the most holiest days in the Christian calendar, by rewriting the Nativity and substituting characters like Elvis or Spongebob Fecking Squarepants for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because this is highly offensive to Christians.

I'd like to see the fecking reaction from British, bleeding heart, Politically Correct, liberals, if I staged 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' outside any Mosque during 'Mawlid al-Nabi' or 'Ramadam-adingdong'. They'd soon be bayiing for blood.

[Scarlett.]

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

[Cherie]

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

Pushy parent alert :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

Children don't like going to school Chewy, but I don't see anybody altering schools and turning them into Amusement parks.

[Marsh.]

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

[Cherie]

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

[Scarlett.]

Children don't like going to school Chewy, but I don't see anybody altering schools and turning them into Amusement parks.

Adding silly characters to plays isn't anything new, they did it back all the way back in the 90s, hell the school nativity I was in had three astronauts instead of three wise men :joker: That would have been 2001, I think.

[Marsh.]

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago? :think:

Or was this set on the moon?

[Scarlett.]

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago? :think:

Or was this set on the moon?

Time travel I think :laugh:

[Ammi]

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger :laugh:

..I don't see it as an issue at all though Cherie..tbh, it doesn't say that the story has been changed at all..just that there are some 'modern characters' added ..and that might be for comedy effect which the children..(and hopefully parents as well..)..would appreciate..maybe not those mums in the OP but they could be very much a minority of parents who didn't like it..who didn't appreciate the school putting their own interpretation on the story..who didn't want any deviation from a traditional nativity... but the school may have felt that story/interpretation was much more relevant to their students...or what the students wanted themselves...?..there may have been many more parents who did enjoy it...far more than didn't...

[Marsh.]

Ammi so wants to see Elvis in the manger. :laugh:

[the truth]

I'm 'making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas' - because there is -- Christianity. The clue is in the name.

It's not called AllahMas or Siddhartha Gautamamas or Quatermass - it's called Christ Mas, meaning The Mass of Christ, or Festival of Christ, and is specifically to celebrate the birth (and death) of Jesus Christ. So it is a Christian Festivity.

If people choose not to observe the true meaning of Christmas then that's up to them. Just don't try to alter or eradicate Christian traditions and ridicule Christian beliefs on one of the most holiest days in the Christian calendar, by rewriting the Nativity and substituting characters like Elvis or Spongebob Fecking Squarepants for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because this is highly offensive to Christians.

I'd like to see the fecking reaction from British, bleeding heart, Politically Correct, liberals, if I staged 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' outside any Mosque during 'Mawlid al-Nabi' or 'Ramadam-adingdong'. They'd soon be bayiing for blood.

correct:laugh:

[joeysteele]

[/B]

Really, there doesn't seem to be the same need to spice up Halloween, kids are quite happy to dress up year on year and pretend to be the walking dead, and we know that doesn't happen either, its all down to this country's problem with Christianity, as Eyeball Paul has said we are practically falling over backwards to embrace EID and Diwali, but they too are based on stories so I really don't get why people who have no interest in it keep trying to get rid of it, I don't have any interest in EID or Diwali but am happy to let people get on with it. :idc

Good post indeed Cherie and I agree totally with you.

[kirklancaster]

Good post indeed Cherie and I agree totally with you.

Ditto.

[Scarlett.]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

[smudgie]

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

It Certainly was at the school my friend works at.
One very naughty young boy called Stanley brought the house down.
When Joseph knocked at the door and asked if there was any room at the Inn, Stanley replied " no there isn't, now ******* off to the stable.


We have had many a laugh at the antics of young Stanley:laugh:

[Ninastar]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

its true

almost all news channels are biased in their own ways...

we should always be tolerent of other peoples beliefs, but I also think that the people who come here should respect our traditions '

although saying that, i've never met a muslim who thinks, '**** ENGLAND AND ITS CHRISTIAN WAYS!!!!'

its just a load of crap said by the media.

Most muslims ive met are very accepting and understanding

[Northern Monkey]

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

[the truth]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

[Scarlett.]

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

I don't know what to say, other than lol.

[Ninastar]

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

I totally agree. well said

[kirklancaster]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

I'm not basing my reaction specifically on the linked article posted by LT Chewie, but also on my own experiences dealing with certain muslim Asian dignitaries and the inexplicable changes to long traditional policies in certain schools and even nursing homes within my area over the years.

It will be a long post to just outline the details, but here goes: My children went to a very reputable Church of England school, where 'Morning Assembly' was cancelled abruptly only to be followed by the abandoning of the traditional Christmas Nativity in favour of little 'plays' written by the Head Teacher.

There were only 3 muslim Asian kids in the school and their father was a 'Doctor' who was something of a 'dignitary' - he was on the school Board of Governors, on some Police Authority Board, was Chairman of Community Race Relations or suchlike, Leader of the local 'mosque' (actually a converted terrace house) etc. etc. He was very respected and feted in fact - as most 'local dignitaries' are.

What most of the community don't know, is that he is one of the most crooked, cheating bastards walking God's earth, and racially prejudiced against white English people to boot.

I know because I dealt with him in business for a while until I could not stomach his sneering contempt for English people and our way of life, any longer and actually threw him out of my office.

I had been travelling on a mutual business trip in the back seat of his Range Rover and there were 5 other Asian colleagues of his whom I did not know. On a 15 mile journey, every time we passed a white female they started talking among themselves in Urdu and fractured English, about 'English harlots', 'Slags' Sluts' - you name it, and some of the females we passed were just schoolgirls.

I nearly came to blows with 2 of them in the car and demanded they turned the car around telling him he could "Feck" his business, and he did turn it around.

Back home, he followed me into my office and told me that he couldn't understand my reaction because I wasn't an "English bastard" but was Asian like them (because I am mixed race) and it ended up with me physically throwing him out.

This is all true.

The mistake he made was in believing that I was his 'friend' but although I did do business with him and was friendly with him to begin with, I soon grew to dislike him immensely. During that time though, I witnessed enough of his 'dodgy dealings' and total disregard for even his own Muslim community whom he was 'ripping off'. He tried to get me to submit a deliberately inflated quote to the council so he could get a bigger Grant but I refused. He tried to get me to do the same on invoices for the local 'Mosque' so he could recoup his 'outlay' from the Muslim community he 'served' and pocket the - considerable - difference on each invoice. I refused.

Anyway, this was the hypocritical bastard who was (and still is) held in such high regard by our community and its 'Big Wigs', and this is the man whose influence - along with his certain of his Asian cronies - and friendship with the school's Head teacher initiated the said changes to that school's traditions.

It got so bad that when the kids at the school - including mine - were creating gaily decorated hoops to hang from the assembly room ceiling at Christmas, the children were told that they could no longer do Angels, but Stars were OK.

I actually went to see the Head and queried these changes and was told that morning assembly was cancelled because the school did not want the 'non-Christian' children (all 3 of them) to feel 'excluded'. Similarly, he explained that the school was no longer putting on the traditional Christmas Nativity because: it did not want to "offend the parents of the non-Christian children" (all 1 of them - the dad in question) when they came to attend the play. I argued the toss with him but my logic fell on deaf ears.

The situation deteriorated when my son came home with homework on the life of the prophet Muhammed and text books on Islam. I have already stated on here that I have never made any attempt to 'push' my beliefs onto my children, so I asked my little son if he knew who the four evangelists were. He shook his little head.

I went back to see the prick of a head teacher and asked why; in a Church of England School, he was teaching the kids Islam when Christianity wasn't on the curriculum and he gave me a load of B.S. by way of an answer.

I had a choice, remove my kids from one of the (hitherto) highest performing schools in the area, or leave them and accept the situation.

I left them.

This Asian dignitary also owned several 'Care Homes' which were full of old 'white' English people - not a Muslim in sight - and all the staff were the same. Yet Christmas was not allowed to be celebrated in any of his homes even though a lot of the inmates and staff wanted to put Christmas trees up and decorate.

But isn't this the situation now given the topic of this thread?

Having change thrust upon us for no valid reason? Change which is not only offensive to our belief system, but which is yet another example of our civil liberties as English Christians being taken away from us? Changes which are just a thinly cloaked way of eroding our heritage, our traditions, our way of life?

What about our rights?

[Ammi]

My school never did a nativity play the year 5 would just do a different Christmas play every year. My year 5 group did A Christmas carol.

..and that’s a great Christmas story for children as well, Armand...just in the same way that I don’t think that schools should exclude stories that have religious attachments, I also don’t think that they should exclude those that haven’t if they also relay a very good Christmas message to children just because they’re not based on the birth of Christ....I also think that it’s ok to put a ‘modern touch’ on the Nativity as well..we did that one year and had the Three Kings as XFactor judges...

[Nedusa]

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

[Cherie]

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

:clap1:

[kirklancaster]

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Brilliantly put Paul.

[kirklancaster]

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.

.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Well said as usual Nedusa.

[Nedusa]

I'm 'making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas' - because there is -- Christianity. The clue is in the name.

It's not called AllahMas or Siddhartha Gautamamas or Quatermass - it's called Christ Mas, meaning The Mass of Christ, or Festival of Christ, and is specifically to celebrate the birth (and death) of Jesus Christ. So it is a Christian Festivity.

If people choose not to observe the true meaning of Christmas then that's up to them. Just don't try to alter or eradicate Christian traditions and ridicule Christian beliefs on one of the most holiest days in the Christian calendar, by rewriting the Nativity and substituting characters like Elvis or Spongebob Fecking Squarepants for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because this is highly offensive to Christians.

I'd like to see the fecking reaction from British, bleeding heart, Politically Correct, liberals, if I staged 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' outside any Mosque during 'Mawlid al-Nabi' or 'Ramadam-adingdong'. They'd soon be bayiing for blood.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:




.

[the truth]

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

absolutely spot on to a tee..........please run for office:cheer2:

[Ninastar]

I'm not basing my reaction specifically on the linked article posted by LT Chewie, but also on my own experiences dealing with certain muslim Asian dignitaries and the inexplicable changes to long traditional policies in certain schools and even nursing homes within my area over the years.

It will be a long post to just outline the details, but here goes: My children went to a very reputable Church of England school, where 'Morning Assembly' was cancelled abruptly only to be followed by the abandoning of the traditional Christmas Nativity in favour of little 'plays' written by the Head Teacher.

There were only 3 muslim Asian kids in the school and their father was a 'Doctor' who was something of a 'dignitary' - he was on the school Board of Governors, on some Police Authority Board, was Chairman of Community Race Relations or suchlike, Leader of the local 'mosque' (actually a converted terrace house) etc. etc. He was very respected and feted in fact - as most 'local dignitaries' are.

What most of the community don't know, is that he is one of the most crooked, cheating bastards walking God's earth, and racially prejudiced against white English people to boot.

I know because I dealt with him in business for a while until I could not stomach his sneering contempt for English people and our way of life, any longer and actually threw him out of my office.

I had been travelling on a mutual business trip in the back seat of his Range Rover and there were 5 other Asian colleagues of his whom I did not know. On a 15 mile journey, every time we passed a white female they started talking among themselves in Urdu and fractured English, about 'English harlots', 'Slags' Sluts' - you name it, and some of the females we passed were just schoolgirls.

I nearly came to blows with 2 of them in the car and demanded they turned the car around telling him he could "Feck" his business, and he did turn it around.

Back home, he followed me into my office and told me that he couldn't understand my reaction because I wasn't an "English bastard" but was Asian like them (because I am mixed race) and it ended up with me physically throwing him out.

This is all true.

The mistake he made was in believing that I was his 'friend' but although I did do business with him and was friendly with him to begin with, I soon grew to dislike him immensely. During that time though, I witnessed enough of his 'dodgy dealings' and total disregard for even his own Muslim community whom he was 'ripping off'. He tried to get me to submit a deliberately inflated quote to the council so he could get a bigger Grant but I refused. He tried to get me to do the same on invoices for the local 'Mosque' so he could recoup his 'outlay' from the Muslim community he 'served' and pocket the - considerable - difference on each invoice. I refused.

Anyway, this was the hypocritical bastard who was (and still is) held in such high regard by our community and its 'Big Wigs', and this is the man whose influence - along with his certain of his Asian cronies - and friendship with the school's Head teacher initiated the said changes to that school's traditions.

It got so bad that when the kids at the school - including mine - were creating gaily decorated hoops to hang from the assembly room ceiling at Christmas, the children were told that they could no longer do Angels, but Stars were OK.

I actually went to see the Head and queried these changes and was told that morning assembly was cancelled because the school did not want the 'non-Christian' children (all 3 of them) to feel 'excluded'. Similarly, he explained that the school was no longer putting on the traditional Christmas Nativity because: it did not want to "offend the parents of the non-Christian children" (all 1 of them - the dad in question) when they came to attend the play. I argued the toss with him but my logic fell on deaf ears.

The situation deteriorated when my son came home with homework on the life of the prophet Muhammed and text books on Islam. I have already stated on here that I have never made any attempt to 'push' my beliefs onto my children, so I asked my little son if he knew who the four evangelists were. He shook his little head.

I went back to see the prick of a head teacher and asked why; in a Church of England School, he was teaching the kids Islam when Christianity wasn't on the curriculum and he gave me a load of B.S. by way of an answer.

I had a choice, remove my kids from one of the (hitherto) highest performing schools in the area, or leave them and accept the situation.

I left them.

This Asian dignitary also owned several 'Care Homes' which were full of old 'white' English people - not a Muslim in sight - and all the staff were the same. Yet Christmas was not allowed to be celebrated in any of his homes even though a lot of the inmates and staff wanted to put Christmas trees up and decorate.

But isn't this the situation now given the topic of this thread?

Having change thrust upon us for no valid reason? Change which is not only offensive to our belief system, but which is yet another example of our civil liberties as English Christians being taken away from us? Changes which are just a thinly cloaked way of eroding our heritage, our traditions, our way of life?

What about our rights?

Wow, that's really sad and quite a shame.

I also work in a C of E school, and there are a few Muslim children there.

Thankfully, all of their parents are completely understanding and are more than happy for them to take part in the Christmas nativities. Although one thing, (which upsets me greatly) is that the mothers have mentioned how they worry about taking pictures, as some people in their family and back home (I think it was Pakistan... not too sure though) would be very angry and disgusted.

It's sad, because I get on with these mothers very well. I have said it before on here, but I have never met a nasty Muslim or Asian. But I will be honest, I've heard plenty of scary things from other members of staff in the school.

I do think that we will eventually be asked to not do the nativity anymore, for quite a few reasons.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it. If it is a school of a different religion, I have absolutely no problem with them not doing a Christmas nativity.

But I don't think the nativity should be banned, nor do I think it should be forced... It should be up to the school.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to say my opinion!

[kirklancaster]

Wow, that's really sad and quite a shame.

I also work in a C of E school, and there are a few Muslim children there.

Thankfully, all of their parents are completely understanding and are more than happy for them to take part in the Christmas nativities. Although one thing, (which upsets me greatly) is that the mothers have mentioned how they worry about taking pictures, as some people in their family and back home (I think it was Pakistan... not too sure though) would be very angry and disgusted.

It's sad, because I get on with these mothers very well. I have said it before on here, but I have never met a nasty Muslim or Asian. But I will be honest, I've heard plenty of scary things from other members of staff in the school.

I do think that we will eventually be asked to not do the nativity anymore, for quite a few reasons.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it. If it is a school of a different religion, I have absolutely no problem with them not doing a Christmas nativity.

But I don't think the nativity should be banned, nor do I think it should be forced... It should be up to the school.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to say my opinion!

You ain't rambling Caitlin, you're being balanced and making sense. I'm not ranting about Muslims per se, I have repeatedly stressed that ordinary Muslims are no more part of ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism than were ordinary Irish Catholics and Protestants part of the IRA troubles years ago. They are also not responsible for the covert usurpation which is definitely occurring here in the UK, and has been, dating back to the early 1960's.

It is the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' Islamic extremists who are behind what's happening here. They infiltrate organisations as diverse as the BBC and Channel 4 & 5, newspapers, Councils, Police, Medical and School Authorities, and all departments of our Civil Service - the real power in this country irrespective of which Government is in 'phoney' power.

Once in, they work their way into positions of power. These are 5th columnists, working from within, and in no hurry, but every bit as dangerous as their Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist brothers waging war and wreaking carnage without, because their objective is the same - subjugation and usurpation of the UK as part of their self proclaimed mission to ultimately render the entire world Islamic. They are preparing the way by stealth.

I don't care who thinks I have a bolt loose, I have moved in certain circles and witnessed certain conversations for over a decade, and know the truth.

"It's B.S.". "He's seen too many films". "It can't happen". - Well, it is happening, but is so diversely spread, and done so subtly with 'baby steps', that no one collates it all, or thinks and analyses it. And that's exactly why it is happening the way it is.

[Kazanne]

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

[Ninastar]

You ain't rambling Caitlin, you're being balanced and making sense. I'm not ranting about Muslims per se, I have repeatedly stressed that ordinary Muslims are no more part of ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism than were ordinary Irish Catholics and Protestants part of the IRA troubles years ago. They are also not responsible for the covert usurpation which is definitely occurring here in the UK, and has been, dating back to the early 1960's.

It is the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' Islamic extremists who are behind what's happening here. They infiltrate organisations as diverse as the BBC and Channel 4 & 5, newspapers, Councils, Police, Medical and School Authorities, and all departments of our Civil Service - the real power in this country irrespective of which Government is in 'phoney' power.

Once in, they work their way into positions of power. These are 5th columnists, working from within, and in no hurry, but every bit as dangerous as their Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist brothers waging war and wreaking carnage without, because their objective is the same - subjugation and usurpation of the UK as part of their self proclaimed mission to ultimately render the entire world Islamic. They are preparing the way by stealth.

I don't care who thinks I have a bolt loose, I have moved in certain circles and witnessed certain conversations for over a decade, and know the truth.

"It's B.S.". "He's seen too many films". "It can't happen". - Well, it is happening, but is so diversely spread, and done so subtly with 'baby steps', that no one collates it all, or thinks and analyses it. And that's exactly why it is happening the way it is.

Oh no, please dont think I was accusing you of muslim hating! Cause I definitely wasn't, lol...

but no, I do agree with your post... and this one. It's true and its a shame people don't realise it.

all this 'we must be very careful what we say!!' crap actually does more damage than good.

[kirklancaster]

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

Brilliant post Kaz.

[Cherie]

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

Nicely put Kaz, the word whinging is very apt.

[Kazanne]

Brilliant post Kaz.

Well ,Kirk the state of the world and certain groups are whinging about kids in a play,pfft,idiots why should England tremble Eh?

[Kazanne]

Nicely put Kaz, the word whinging is very apt.

:laugh: Isn't it just:wavey:

[kirklancaster]

10,000 Helium filled balloons in one room are a hell of a lot of balloons. They can’t be missed, ignored, or denied, but 10,000 Helium filled balloons let loose outside, will soon separate, float apart, disappear into the vast, vast endless sky.

Over the course of a few weeks, you might spot one or even two floating on high. A few months later, you might spot another. You may ponder about these for a few seconds, but then dismiss it from your mind as you ‘get on’ with all the increasingly demanding complexities of living life.

The probability is, that if another balloon floated into view some weeks later, you would pay no attention to it at all, or even if you did – it would be a mere fleeting recognition which your mind would dismiss in a nano second.

However, the fact that you can no longer see them, or fail to acknowledge them, does not mean that they never existed, or that they do not still exist. Nor does it mean that even though now separated by time and space, these balloons are not forever linked by their common origins.

Such is the situation with the Islamic Fundamentalist ‘Fifth Columnists’ who are slowly, but oh so surely destroying the UK from within as they march relentlessly towards their goal of conquering every non Islamic country in the world and ‘reinstating’ Islam in them.

The evidence for this is increasingly prolific and irrefutable, but like the airborne balloons in my analogy, seen in isolation and separated by space and time, that evidence is trivialised, dismissed, and ignored, and the link is not recognised.

I have formulated my 'Islamic Fifth Columnist' theories over the past 15 years largely due to my own experiences, observations and intuition.

Yesterday, however, a very valued friend sent me a couple of links about a woman who I had never previously heard of, and I am so grateful that she did, because this woman's Facts echo my theories, and she articulates those facts with more eloquence, intelligence and skill than I am capable of.

I am now busily reading everything I can about this remarkable woman, but before I post those links, I wish to abridge what she says as a comparator for what I genuinely believe is occurring right now in the UK.

LEBANON.

From gaining independence in 1943, Lebanon was the only Middle Eastern country to boast ‘Western Democratic’ values. Christianity was the majority national religion. It was the Financial and Banking capital of the Middle East and – without the benefit of oil – had one of the strongest economies, and its Universities were the envy of even Western Democratic countries.

In 1965 National Geographic magazine featured Lebanon on its front cover under the legend; ‘Eden of The East’, whilst other Western countries fondly dubbed Lebanon, ‘The Paris of the East’.

A lot like our little ‘Kingdom’ then eh? More than you think:

Because – like the UK - Lebanon was also a ‘forward thinking’, tolerant, liberated country which practiced multiculturism and had an ‘open door’ immigration policy which welcomed all Nationalities, Colours and Religions, and -- just as with the UK –- Muslims were the great majority of all ‘refugee’ immigrants to the Lebanon.

Also like the UK, Muslims from all around the world enrolled at Lebanon’s Universities to secure education of the highest kind.

Look what happened:

Like in the UK now, this influx of predominantly Muslim ‘asylum seekers’ and ‘refugee’ immigrants into Lebanon, used the freedom of the very Western democratic system which embraced and welcomed them, to covertly plot with Muslims already in Lebanon to conquer Lebanon from within, usurp its indigenous people, and build terror bases where they conspired to destroy Israel, and eventually declared jihad on all Christians.

As with the UK now, and in my ‘Helium Balloon’ analogy, this initially covert ‘plot’ first manifested itself in ‘baby steps’ – insignificant little displays of ‘raised voices’ of protest against the existing ‘socio political’ and religious status quo of the host country – ‘not much to worry about’.

As with UK now however, as the Islamic population grew and as the indigenous Lebanese allowed one concession after another, these Islamic conspirators started becoming more openly aggressive and intolerant in demanding more rights beneficial to Islam at the cost to Lebanon’s Western type democracy and its traditional Judeo Christian religion.

As with the UK now, the ‘Writing’ was well and truly ‘On The Wall’ for the Lebanese to read, but they did not recognise it, or ignored it, and in just a few short years, by the late 1960’s early 1970’s Islam became the Majority National Religion in Lebanon, and Christianity became the Minority.

Look at Lebanon now, follow these two links, listen, analyse, then think about what has been happening in the UK over the past decades, and then tell me I'm a crank, but finally - a few of those 10,000 balloons:

1) Muhammad has become the most popular name for newborn boys in the UK, according to website BabyCentre.

2) According to the UK 2011 Census: the number of Christians in the UK has fallen from 37 million to 33 million since 2001. Christians now make up only 59 percent of the population, as opposed to 72 percent in 2001.

3) The same census reveals: the number of Muslims has risen from 1.5 million to 2.7 million - or 5 percent of the population.
4) From the same census: Islam is set to become the dominant religion in Britain within the next generation.

5) There are already 85 Islamic Sharia Courts in Britain operating parallel to the British Judiciary System.

6) Nationwide, the number of Muslims sitting on Local Councils is increasing at unprecedented rates. In London alone the numbers almost doubled from 2002 to 2006 and have continued growing since.

" The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist." ― Charles Baudelaire.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" – Will Durant.

Follow these links to the excellent Brigitte Gabriel, and make up your own minds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think we were once a Christian country about 50 years ago but to say that now is nonsense. 4 % of us go to church and churches are shutting faster than pubs.

[kirklancaster]

I think we were once a Christian country about 50 years ago but to say that now is nonsense. 4 % of us go to church and churches are shutting faster than pubs.

Until, the head count says differently, this is still a Christian country whether church attendances have dropped or not - I am a Christian but shun church.

There were hardly any Muslims here 50 years ago either - well not fundamentalist ones openly preaching hate, intimidating passers by, enslaving women, and murdering civilians and off duty soldiers on our streets.

[Kyle]

The UK census 2011 also sees non-religiosity dramatically on the rise.

Pleasing.

[kirklancaster]

The UK census 2011 also sees non-religiosity dramatically on the rise.

Pleasing.

Yes Kyle, pleasing to already committed non-religious people and that's fair comment, but the rise in such is a negligible factor in the fall of Christianity and rise of Islam.

I genuinely do not fear British Atheists just as I don't fear Jews or even Wiccans, because I've never heard of any currently trying to subjugate the Western Democracies by terrorism, bombings and beheadings.

We are a civilised moderate lot. Too much so in my book.

[Nedusa]

10,000 Helium filled balloons in one room are a hell of a lot of balloons. They can’t be missed, ignored, or denied, but 10,000 Helium filled balloons let loose outside, will soon separate, float apart, disappear into the vast, vast endless sky.

Over the course of a few weeks, you might spot one or even two floating on high. A few months later, you might spot another. You may ponder about these for a few seconds, but then dismiss it from your mind as you ‘get on’ with all the increasingly demanding complexities of living life.

The probability is, that if another balloon floated into view some weeks later, you would pay no attention to it at all, or even if you did – it would be a mere fleeting recognition which your mind would dismiss in a nano second.

However, the fact that you can no longer see them, or fail to acknowledge them, does not mean that they never existed, or that they do not still exist. Nor does it mean that even though now separated by time and space, these balloons are not forever linked by their common origins.

Such is the situation with the Islamic Fundamentalist ‘Fifth Columnists’ who are slowly, but oh so surely destroying the UK from within as they march relentlessly towards their goal of conquering every non Islamic country in the world and ‘reinstating’ Islam in them.

The evidence for this is increasingly prolific and irrefutable, but like the airborne balloons in my analogy, seen in isolation and separated by space and time, that evidence is trivialised, dismissed, and ignored, and the link is not recognised.

I have formulated my 'Islamic Fifth Columnist' theories over the past 15 years largely due to my own experiences, observations and intuition.

Yesterday, however, a very valued friend sent me a couple of links about a woman who I had never previously heard of, and I am so grateful that she did, because this woman's Facts echo my theories, and she articulates those facts with more eloquence, intelligence and skill than I am capable of.

I am now busily reading everything I can about this remarkable woman, but before I post those links, I wish to abridge what she says as a comparator for what I genuinely believe is occurring right now in the UK.

LEBANON.

From gaining independence in 1943, Lebanon was the only Middle Eastern country to boast ‘Western Democratic’ values. Christianity was the majority national religion. It was the Financial and Banking capital of the Middle East and – without the benefit of oil – had one of the strongest economies, and its Universities were the envy of even Western Democratic countries.

In 1965 National Geographic magazine featured Lebanon on its front cover under the legend; ‘Eden of The East’, whilst other Western countries fondly dubbed Lebanon, ‘The Paris of the East’.

A lot like our little ‘Kingdom’ then eh? More than you think:

Because – like the UK - Lebanon was also a ‘forward thinking’, tolerant, liberated country which practiced multiculturism and had an ‘open door’ immigration policy which welcomed all Nationalities, Colours and Religions, and -- just as with the UK –- Muslims were the great majority of all ‘refugee’ immigrants to the Lebanon.

Also like the UK, Muslims from all around the world enrolled at Lebanon’s Universities to secure education of the highest kind.

Look what happened:

Like in the UK now, this influx of predominantly Muslim ‘asylum seekers’ and ‘refugee’ immigrants into Lebanon, used the freedom of the very Western democratic system which embraced and welcomed them, to covertly plot with Muslims already in Lebanon to conquer Lebanon from within, usurp its indigenous people, and build terror bases where they conspired to destroy Israel, and eventually declared jihad on all Christians.

As with the UK now, and in my ‘Helium Balloon’ analogy, this initially covert ‘plot’ first manifested itself in ‘baby steps’ – insignificant little displays of ‘raised voices’ of protest against the existing ‘socio political’ and religious status quo of the host country – ‘not much to worry about’.

As with UK now however, as the Islamic population grew and as the indigenous Lebanese allowed one concession after another, these Islamic conspirators started becoming more openly aggressive and intolerant in demanding more rights beneficial to Islam at the cost to Lebanon’s Western type democracy and its traditional Judeo Christian religion.

As with the UK now, the ‘Writing’ was well and truly ‘On The Wall’ for the Lebanese to read, but they did not recognise it, or ignored it, and in just a few short years, by the late 1960’s early 1970’s Islam became the Majority National Religion in Lebanon, and Christianity became the Minority.

Look at Lebanon now, follow these two links, listen, analyse, then think about what has been happening in the UK over the past decades, and then tell me I'm a crank, but finally - a few of those 10,000 balloons:

1) Muhammad has become the most popular name for newborn boys in the UK, according to website BabyCentre.

2) According to the UK 2011 Census: the number of Christians in the UK has fallen from 37 million to 33 million since 2001. Christians now make up only 59 percent of the population, as opposed to 72 percent in 2001.

3) The same census reveals: the number of Muslims has risen from 1.5 million to 2.7 million - or 5 percent of the population.
4) From the same census: Islam is set to become the dominant religion in Britain within the next generation.

5) There are already 85 Islamic Sharia Courts in Britain operating parallel to the British Judiciary System.

6) Nationwide, the number of Muslims sitting on Local Councils is increasing at unprecedented rates. In London alone the numbers almost doubled from 2002 to 2006 and have continued growing since.

" The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist." ― Charles Baudelaire.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" – Will Durant.

Follow these links to the excellent Brigitte Gabriel, and make up your own minds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

Excellent post Kirk.............sometimes these things need saying as I agree I have seen and am still witnessing a slow creeping Islamification of not just the UK but Europe in general.

This is why I have grave reservations about calling Islam a peaceful religion, in my mind it is a cult (albeit a very large one) that seeks to change people's view towards it's own using any and all means available including violence.

It is indeed about time we brought the debate out into the open and asked senior Islamic leaders to redefine their faith and declare it's limits. They need to speak out against the extremist ideaologies and declare violent Jihad as terrorism pure and simple.

We certainly need to be able to have this long overdue debate before we all descend into religious hatred and violent confrontation.




.

[kirklancaster]

Excellent post Kirk.............sometimes these things need saying as I agree I have seen and am still witnessing a slow creeping Islamification of not just the UK but Europe in general.

This is why I have grave reservations about calling Islam a peaceful religion, in my mind it is a cult (albeit a very large one) that seeks to change people's view towards it's own using any and all means available including violence.

It is indeed about time we brought the debate out into the open and asked senior Islamic leaders to redefine their faith and declare it's limits. They need to speak out against the extremist ideaologies and declare violent Jihad as terrorism pure and simple.

We certainly need to be able to have this long overdue debate before we all descend into religious hatred and violent confrontation.

.

Your post is excellent. Thanks Nedusa, and I'm glad - really glad - that you have seen the same 'creeping Islamification' (as you so excellently put it) as I have.

I just hope we can open a few other people's eyes.

[Tom4784]

It's always hilarious how people get hysterical saying that Islam is on the rise and it's gonna take over. Pray do tell how is that gonna happen? Islam is a minority when it comes to religions in the UK and they are dwarfed by people who identify as Christians, agnostics and Atheists among others and more people are taking on agnostic and atheist views each year. How exactly is Islam going to 'take over' when the media runs anti-Islam stories every day and parties like UKIP are slowly gaining power? We are a democracy and, in the current political climate, the chances of a radical Muslim gaining enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way are slim to none.

Also, have you ever considered that most Muslims probably don't want an islamic state? Why do you think Islamic immigrants come here? I bet one of the big reasons is because they're trying to escape countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it.

It's also incredibly patronising and ignorant to say that we can be moderate and civilised yet you're painting millions of people with the same extremist brush. All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad.

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Dezzy;7406031]

"It's always hilarious how people get hysterical saying that Islam is on the rise and it's gonna take over. Pray do tell how is that gonna happen? Islam is a minority when it comes to religions in the UK and they are dwarfed by people who identify as Christians, agnostics and Atheists among others and more people are taking on agnostic and atheist views each year."

You obviously do not read the posts on the threads which you keep playing 'Hokey Cokey' on and leaping in and out of to post criticisms, because if you did, you would have the answers to all your questions before you posed them.

As my lengthy post on Lebanon, and the given links, have already explained - had you read them - being in a minority does not preclude that minority in achieving its evil objective, if that minority is proactive, intolerant, immoral and malignant, and the majority is passive, tolerant, moral, benign, and apathetic or unwary.

Further: I have already answered your points about 'Agnostics and atheists' in my response to Kyle which precedes your response and which I would presume you had read prior to posting. But I will reiterate;

The given negligible rise in Atheism in the context of my post's subject matter, does not account for the fall in Christianity and the rise in Islam.

"How exactly is Islam going to 'take over' when the media runs anti-Islam stories every day and parties like UKIP are slowly gaining power?


Again, you cannot have read my posts or followed the links and watched the two excellent videos.

Most ordinary people are much too busy with trying to deal with life to take much notice of 'the media' running 'anti-Islam stories every day', and most, certainly do not consciously 'link' the reality behind such 'stories' anyway - as in my 'Helium balloon' analogy. They are also likely to suffer from becoming 'acclimatised' to a degree,about 'over exposure' to news regarding Islamic Terrorism.

When the first British soldier was killed in Ireland during the 'IRA troubles', it was so shocking and so outraged the 'moral majority' that the entire front pages of every newspaper was dedicated to the story of it. Less than one year later, the 'murder' of six soldiers in Ireland was relegated to a few columns on the inside pages.

"We are a democracy and, in the current political climate, the chances of a radical Muslim gaining enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way are slim to none."

You are stating opinion as fact when all the real facts - had you read them - would preclude you posting that opinion.

Did we have 85 Islamic Sharia Law courts in the UK before? - No.
Were innocent off duty soldiers being slaughtered by Islamic murdering bastards on the streets of Britain before? - No.
Did we have innocent non-Muslim passers by openly accosted and threatened by contemptuous Islamic Fundamentalist thugs before? -No.
Were we involved in the tremendous financial cost and trouble of having our National Security Service on 'Red Alert' because of increased anti-British activities by British based Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists before - No.

"radical Muslims" have already "gained enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way", never mind the chances of doing so according to you, being "slim to none.". Unless you think everything is not going to get worse and it will all disappear, and our way of life, traditions and freedoms, will miraculously revert back to the halcyon days of yesteryear?

"Also, have you ever considered that most Muslims probably don't want an islamic state? Why do you think Islamic immigrants come here? I bet one of the big reasons is because they're trying to escape countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it."

I have stated already many times, that it is not the ordinary Muslims in Britain who I am referring to, and you are right - ordinary peaceful, moderate Muslims do not identify with these Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists, and are as terrified of them, and as 'at risk from their extreme Islamic intolerance, as non-Muslims are. These bastards are slaughtering moderate Muslims in the Middle East as I type.

My point is; that being decent and moderate, and not being part of the Islamic Fundamentalists I refer to, ordinary Muslims too are not aware of any 'Fifth Columnist' infiltration of Britain, or the 'Muslim Brotherhoods' 1928 Plan for World domination and the 'restoration' of Islam to every non-Muslim country on Earth, by stealth from within, and Force from without.

So as for "escaping countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it." If we do not wake up and recognise just what is happening in our country there will be very soon be nowhere for anyone to escape to that isn't ruled by Sharia Law.

"It's also incredibly patronising and ignorant to say that we can be moderate and civilised yet you're painting millions of people with the same extremist brush. All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad."

With respect, it is you who is being incredibly patronising and ignorant, because you quite evidently have not read my previous posts on this thread or any of my other posts on other threads such as 'The Meaning of Life' because if you had, you would not now be wrongfully accusing me of 'painting millions of people with the same extremist brush', as I take great pains in those posts to make clear that I am not referring to all Muslims - the great majority of whom are God-fearing, peace-loving decent humans - but to inhuman, evil Islamic Fundamentalists.

Finally, I take great exception to your statement that: "All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad." because - unless you are meaning ancient historical sense - are you really and seriously implying that these evil scumbag Jihadists who behead innocent civilians among other atrocities, have any counterpart among the extremists of modern Christianity and Judaism? Or indeed any other religion?

[Northern Monkey]

10,000 Helium filled balloons in one room are a hell of a lot of balloons. They can’t be missed, ignored, or denied, but 10,000 Helium filled balloons let loose outside, will soon separate, float apart, disappear into the vast, vast endless sky.

Over the course of a few weeks, you might spot one or even two floating on high. A few months later, you might spot another. You may ponder about these for a few seconds, but then dismiss it from your mind as you ‘get on’ with all the increasingly demanding complexities of living life.

The probability is, that if another balloon floated into view some weeks later, you would pay no attention to it at all, or even if you did – it would be a mere fleeting recognition which your mind would dismiss in a nano second.

However, the fact that you can no longer see them, or fail to acknowledge them, does not mean that they never existed, or that they do not still exist. Nor does it mean that even though now separated by time and space, these balloons are not forever linked by their common origins.

Such is the situation with the Islamic Fundamentalist ‘Fifth Columnists’ who are slowly, but oh so surely destroying the UK from within as they march relentlessly towards their goal of conquering every non Islamic country in the world and ‘reinstating’ Islam in them.

The evidence for this is increasingly prolific and irrefutable, but like the airborne balloons in my analogy, seen in isolation and separated by space and time, that evidence is trivialised, dismissed, and ignored, and the link is not recognised.

I have formulated my 'Islamic Fifth Columnist' theories over the past 15 years largely due to my own experiences, observations and intuition.

Yesterday, however, a very valued friend sent me a couple of links about a woman who I had never previously heard of, and I am so grateful that she did, because this woman's Facts echo my theories, and she articulates those facts with more eloquence, intelligence and skill than I am capable of.

I am now busily reading everything I can about this remarkable woman, but before I post those links, I wish to abridge what she says as a comparator for what I genuinely believe is occurring right now in the UK.

LEBANON.

From gaining independence in 1943, Lebanon was the only Middle Eastern country to boast ‘Western Democratic’ values. Christianity was the majority national religion. It was the Financial and Banking capital of the Middle East and – without the benefit of oil – had one of the strongest economies, and its Universities were the envy of even Western Democratic countries.

In 1965 National Geographic magazine featured Lebanon on its front cover under the legend; ‘Eden of The East’, whilst other Western countries fondly dubbed Lebanon, ‘The Paris of the East’.

A lot like our little ‘Kingdom’ then eh? More than you think:

Because – like the UK - Lebanon was also a ‘forward thinking’, tolerant, liberated country which practiced multiculturism and had an ‘open door’ immigration policy which welcomed all Nationalities, Colours and Religions, and -- just as with the UK –- Muslims were the great majority of all ‘refugee’ immigrants to the Lebanon.

Also like the UK, Muslims from all around the world enrolled at Lebanon’s Universities to secure education of the highest kind.

Look what happened:

Like in the UK now, this influx of predominantly Muslim ‘asylum seekers’ and ‘refugee’ immigrants into Lebanon, used the freedom of the very Western democratic system which embraced and welcomed them, to covertly plot with Muslims already in Lebanon to conquer Lebanon from within, usurp its indigenous people, and build terror bases where they conspired to destroy Israel, and eventually declared jihad on all Christians.

As with the UK now, and in my ‘Helium Balloon’ analogy, this initially covert ‘plot’ first manifested itself in ‘baby steps’ – insignificant little displays of ‘raised voices’ of protest against the existing ‘socio political’ and religious status quo of the host country – ‘not much to worry about’.

As with UK now however, as the Islamic population grew and as the indigenous Lebanese allowed one concession after another, these Islamic conspirators started becoming more openly aggressive and intolerant in demanding more rights beneficial to Islam at the cost to Lebanon’s Western type democracy and its traditional Judeo Christian religion.

As with the UK now, the ‘Writing’ was well and truly ‘On The Wall’ for the Lebanese to read, but they did not recognise it, or ignored it, and in just a few short years, by the late 1960’s early 1970’s Islam became the Majority National Religion in Lebanon, and Christianity became the Minority.

Look at Lebanon now, follow these two links, listen, analyse, then think about what has been happening in the UK over the past decades, and then tell me I'm a crank, but finally - a few of those 10,000 balloons:

1) Muhammad has become the most popular name for newborn boys in the UK, according to website BabyCentre.

2) According to the UK 2011 Census: the number of Christians in the UK has fallen from 37 million to 33 million since 2001. Christians now make up only 59 percent of the population, as opposed to 72 percent in 2001.

3) The same census reveals: the number of Muslims has risen from 1.5 million to 2.7 million - or 5 percent of the population.
4) From the same census: Islam is set to become the dominant religion in Britain within the next generation.

5) There are already 85 Islamic Sharia Courts in Britain operating parallel to the British Judiciary System.

6) Nationwide, the number of Muslims sitting on Local Councils is increasing at unprecedented rates. In London alone the numbers almost doubled from 2002 to 2006 and have continued growing since.

" The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist." ― Charles Baudelaire.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" – Will Durant.

Follow these links to the excellent Brigitte Gabriel, and make up your own minds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s
Brilliant post:clap1:
I have seen both those vids before,She speaks the truth.

There is definately a section of the Muslim community who's aim is to Islamify western country's and create Islamic states all over the world.They want to enforce Sharia law in our country.There was a documentary a while back(possibly Panorama) which went under cover in a Mosque which had a direct video link to an Islamic fundamentalist on a big screen who was preaching to the Muslims who attended.He was explaining how they need to infiltrate western country's and when the time is right to "rise up" and take power and how the infidels(non believers) should be treated as the enemy.These people need to be taken seriously because the threat is very real.As Brigitte Gabriel says,In all of the great attrocities of history "The peaceful majority were irrelevant"

[Ninastar]

Brilliant post:clap1:
I have seen both those vids before,She speaks the truth.

There is definately a section of the Muslim community who's aim is to Islamify western country's and create Islamic states all over the world.They want to enforce Sharia law in our country.There was a documentary a while back(possibly Panorama) which went under cover in a Mosque which had a direct video link to an Islamic fundamentalist on a big screen who was preaching to the Muslims who attended.He was explaining how they need to infiltrate western country's and when the time is right to "rise up" and take power and how the infidels(non believers) should be treated as the enemy.These people need to be taken seriously because the threat is very real.As Brigitte Gabriel says,In all of the great attrocities of history "The peaceful majority were irrelevant"

I think you showed me them! I remember now... Thank you very much for showing me those... they've changed the way i see the world. In the best way possible

[Northern Monkey]

I think you showed me them! I remember now... Thank you very much for showing me those... they've changed the way i see the world. In the best way possible

Yeah i did.I can't even remember where i found them.lol

[kirklancaster]

And there we have it: the beauty and relevance of this brilliant forum. What started as a relatively 'trivial' article (solitary Helium balloon) about unnecessary change to a school nativity, has evolved - through intelligent discussion and exchanging of knowledge and ideas - into a 'whole new bag of mashings'.

I have been informed and educated by others on here, and some have agreed and others disagreed with my theories, but isn't this the exact 'raison d'etre' of any proper forum.

I am just so pleased that there are others who look beyond the superficial, and share my concerns regarding the very real threat of Islam to this country.

[Kizzy]

Yes conspiracy theories are rife on forums, for every argument there is a counter argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MrtjdEyNtc