Feminism

[Smithy]

There seems to be a bit of stigma attached to this word, so i was just curious what TiBB's stance on it was

Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes

Misandrist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against men

Misogynist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women


with these 3 definitions in mind, and these 3 definitions being the exact definition of the above words, would you call yourself a feminist?

[Shaun]

Yes.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d1JA-nh0IfI/hqdefault.jpg

[kirklancaster]

There seems to be a bit of stigma attached to this word, so i was just curious what TiBB's stance on it was

Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes

Misandrist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against men
Misogynist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women


with these 3 definitions in mind, and these 3 definitions being the exact definition of the above words, would you call yourself a feminist?

Why no definition and option for a man who simply adores women Smithy? :laugh:

[Marsh.]

Why no definition and option for a man who simply adores women Smithy? :laugh:

That would be: Pervert.

[Ramsay]

I believe everyone to be equal but man it gets on my tits when some feminists go too far

[Ninastar]

I'm not too sure tbh. There is so so much stupid **** posted on the internet these days by so called 'feminists'. These people make it their absolute mission to prove how awful men are, how men are the main problem in the world and how much better the world would be without them, etc, etc. At first I thought that most 'feminists' were like this, but I've started to realise that there are actually sane ones out there.

I believe in equality, but I also understand that men and women are different. I believe in equal pay, but I also believe that whoever does a better job should be paid more. Gender is irrelevant in that.

I kind of feel like there's not much to be bothered about in this country. Women are very very lucky to live here. Anyone is. I feel like feminism is much more needed in other places of the world. Places where women arent even allowed to drive, for example.

It's something I care about and hope to learn about more over the years. I feel like when you're passionate about something, you need to experience it on your own. I've never had something happen to me where I've thought, 'thIS IS WHY WE NEED FEMINISM!!!1'. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I refuse to see that where we live is that awful.

/sorryforthelongasspost

tl/dr: I'm unsure because of what I've seen. Want to experience more before having a say

[Ramsay]

Caitlin :clap1: :clap1:

[Marsh.]

I'm not too sure tbh. There is so so much stupid **** posted on the internet these days by so called 'feminists'. These people make it their absolute mission to prove how awful men are, how men are the main problem in the world and how much better the world would be without them, etc, etc. At first I thought that most 'feminists' were like this, but I've started to realise that there are actually sane ones out there.

Hint: That's NOT feminism. :laugh:

[Niall]

Yup. I am.


I believe in equality, but I also understand that men and women are different. I believe in equal pay, but I also believe that whoever does a better job should be paid more.

If that's what you believe in, then you're a feminist. That's one of the most basic things that feminism fights for.

[MTVN]

I'm not too sure tbh. There is so so much stupid **** posted on the internet these days by so called 'feminists'. These people make it their absolute mission to prove how awful men are, how men are the main problem in the world and how much better the world would be without them, etc, etc. At first I thought that most 'feminists' were like this, but I've started to realise that there are actually sane ones out there.

I believe in equality, but I also understand that men and women are different. I believe in equal pay, but I also believe that whoever does a better job should be paid more. Gender is irrelevant in that.

I kind of feel like there's not much to be bothered about in this country. Women are very very lucky to live here. Anyone is. I feel like feminism is much more needed in other places of the world. Places where women arent even allowed to drive, for example.

It's something I care about and hope to learn about more over the years. I feel like when you're passionate about something, you need to experience it on your own. I've never had something happen to me where I've thought, 'thIS IS WHY WE NEED FEMINISM!!!1'. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I refuse to see that where we live is that awful.

/sorryforthelongasspost

tl/dr: I'm unsure because of what I've seen. Want to experience more before having a say

I agree with this and would tend to stay out of discussions about it, and therefore I would not generally identify myself with the 'feminist' tag because it often implies a level of political activism over women's rights that I don't engage in

[Vicky.]

By those definitions, yes most definitely.

[Smithy]

I agree with this and would tend to stay out of discussions about it, and therefore I would not generally identify myself with the 'feminist' tag because it often implies a level of political activism over women's rights that I don't engage in

not necessarily, if you believe in complete equality for the sexes, then it's as simple as that

[Niamh.]

of course

[user104658]

I believe everyone to be equal but man it gets on my tits when some feminists go too far

Agreed. By those definitions, yes, I completely agree with option A. However, I am very hesitant to call myself a "feminist" because, sadly, that is not what the word means today and that is not the goal of many modern feminism supporters.

I believe in true equality which means I do NOT support "positive discrimintion".

To use an example: the goal of modern feminism in any random workplace seems to be to have a "quota" so that a equal number of men and women are employed. So let's say it's a workplace with 20 positions, currently there are 10 men and 9 women. Equality is not ensuring that a woman fills the vacant post. Equality is choosing the BEST APPLICANT for that post, completely blind to gender. Equality could be a workplace of 20 men, or 20 women, or anything inbetween, so long as those people have been chosen purely on merit and not because of which set of genitals they happen to have.

In short: I fully believe in equality of opportunity for all people, taking gender, race etc. Out of the equation. I do not agree with controlling ratios to prop up some artificial "equality quota" if it means that someone better qualified is passed over.

A lot of modern feminism is about empowering women at the expense of men. That is not any sort of equality. The word is tainted.

[Niall]

I agree with this and would tend to stay out of discussions about it, and therefore I would not generally identify myself with the 'feminist' tag because it often implies a level of political activism over women's rights that I don't engage in

As Smithy said, your level of immersion within feminist movements decides on how politicised you become. If you don't want to get into gender based arguments and discussions, then that's an entirely separate thing to being a feminist. Though it may help the cause of feminism, being a feminist doesn't carry with it a responsibility to engage in its discourse.

[user104658]

not necessarily, if you believe in complete equality for the sexes, then it's as simple as that

Why would complete equality be called feminism? The immediate implication is that there are currently no disadvantages to being male. The term itself is unequal.

[Livia]

I'm a feminist and I believe in total equality of the sexes. Like TS, I don't believe in positive discrimination on the grounds of sex, race or anything else. The person who gets the job should be the best candidate, regardless of who they are.

[MTVN]

not necessarily, if you believe in complete equality for the sexes, then it's as simple as that

As Smithy said, your level of immersion join feminist movements decides on how politicised you become. If you don't want to get into gender based arguments and discussions, then that's an entirely separate thing to being a feminist. Though it may help the cause of feminism, being a feminist doesn't carry with it a responsibility to engage in its discourse.

Sure of course the fundamental principles of 'feminism' are all well and fine but it is a very broad church with a lot of infighting, disagreements etc. and the tag often carries very political connotations that I'd rather not associate myself with

[Firewire]

of course

[Ninastar]

I guess I'm just blinding by the craziness of some feminists that I see. I always thought that feminism as strictly womens right, whereas if what you're all saying is true, then yes, I'd gladly admit that I am feminist.

[Niall]

Why would complete equality be called feminism? The immediate implication is that there are currently no disadvantages to being male. The term itself is unequal.

It's not unequal because historically, all the oppression and inequality has mostly been placed upon women. Even today men hold a position in society far more steeped in power and prestige than women do (you need only look at top earning salaries, how rape is unfortunately still at epidemic levels through society to see that).

The hugely disproportionate advantage men have is primarily why I've understood it to be called feminism. Feminism as a movement campaigns for the equality of both men and women, sure, but mostly it's dedicated to unpicking the patriarchal leanings of human society which are so very poisonous. Hence the name 'feminism'. Or at least that's what I think.

[Smithy]

I kind of feel like there's not much to be bothered about in this country. Women are very very lucky to live here. Anyone is. I feel like feminism is much more needed in other places of the world. Places where women arent even allowed to drive, for example.

It's something I care about and hope to learn about more over the years. I feel like when you're passionate about something, you need to experience it on your own. I've never had something happen to me where I've thought, 'thIS IS WHY WE NEED FEMINISM!!!1'. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I refuse to see that where we live is that awful.


I guess I'm just blinding by the craziness of some feminists that I see. I always thought that feminism as strictly womens right, whereas if what you're all saying is true, then yes, I'd gladly admit that I am feminist.


Personally i think that if you're wanting equality, then you want it on a WW basis, it might be better here in the UK than in other places, like the middle east for example, but that wouldn't stop anyone from being a feminist, just because we have it better.

And re; the why we need feminism/it strictly being women rights, there was a story in the paper a few weeks ago, i saw a woman had attacked a man, (bitten his ear off, or bottled him and he'd lost his eye sight in one eye or something equally bad) anyway, she'd been previously arrested 17 times and had numerous convictions for assault, and this case went to court, despite there being however much evidence the woman was let off with a caution, and i'm pretty sure if that had been a man, he'd have been sentenced to a pretty lengthy stretch in prison. Because men and women aren't viewed as equal, she got away with something horrendous

[kirklancaster]

That would be: Pervert.

:laugh:

[Niall]

I guess I'm just blinding by the craziness of some feminists that I see. I always thought that feminism as strictly womens right, whereas if what you're all saying is true, then yes, I'd gladly admit that I am feminist.

Often I think, the worst or most acidic sects of movements are the ones that get the most publicity. The media especially loves to use feminism as something to be exaggerated and laughed at for its perceived stupidity (like that thing TIME magazine did about feminism before the new year). It's given most people the wrong impression as to what feminism actually is. It's not man hating women. It's the fight for gender equality, simple as that.

[Ninastar]

Personally i think that if you're wanting equality, then you want it on a WW basis, it might be better here in the UK than in other places, like the middle east for example, but that wouldn't stop anyone from being a feminist, just because we have it better.

And re; the why we need feminism/it strictly being women rights, there was a story in the paper a few weeks ago, i saw a woman had attacked a man, (bitten his ear off, or bottled him and he'd lost his eye sight in one eye or something equally bad) anyway, she'd been previously arrested 17 times and had numerous convictions for assault, and this case went to court, despite there being however much evidence the woman was let off with a caution, and i'm pretty sure if that had been a man, he'd have been sentenced to a pretty lengthy stretch in prison. Because men and women aren't viewed as equal, she got away with something horrendous

ik, I'm saying that if for any reason I did call myself a feminist, it would be over the way things are in other places, rather than what they are like here. But if feminism really is gender equality, then yeah, I'd say i was

I agree, I totally think she should have been given a long sentence for that. I actually know a woman like that who needs locked away for good. She keeps getting custody of her kids when she is truly awful. So yeah, we see eye to eye on that. I just didn't think modern day 'feminists' believed that. It's nice to see that all the feminsts on here arent bat **** crazy. My cousin is like that. She blames men for everything and I just cringe with everything she says. I dont think she realises that she does more damage than good.

[Smithy]

ik, I'm saying that if for any reason I did call myself a feminist, it would be over the way things are in other places, rather than what they are like here. But if feminism really is gender equality, then yeah, I'd say i was

I agree, I totally think she should have been given a long sentence for that. I actually know a woman like that who needs locked away for good. She keeps getting custody of her kids when she is truly awful. So yeah, we see eye to eye on that. I just didn't think modern day 'feminists' believed that. It's nice to see that all the feminsts on here arent bat **** crazy. My cousin is like that. She blames men for everything and I just cringe with everything she says. I dont think she realises that she does more damage than good.

Yeah, thats why i put the other definitions in the OP, it's just misandry masquerading as feminism

[Ninastar]

I'm glad you did, it's nice to learn something good :love:

[user104658]

Yeah, thats why i put the other definitions in the OP, it's just misandry masquerading as feminism

Sadly though, I think in the "internet generation" the term has been hijacked to the extent that it is now quite toxic and in some situations, almost interchangeable with misandry. In my opinion, the entire concept of seeking equality for the sexes under the banner of either sex is sort of missing the point. Yes, women have historically been more oppressed than men, however, it would also be true to say that there are many modern examples of men "coming off worse" in terms of sexism:

Many young women have the mistaken impression that it is "OK" for a female to hit a male but "shocking" for a male to hit a female. It's not surprising that they have this impression, just look at Hollywood and "romcom" style films... you will frequently see women slapping men across the face being played "for laughs", and the implication is usually that he's done something to "deserve it". So the female star belts him one and walks off looking self-righteous and the male is left there obviously "ashamed" by his terrible actions and "accepting" that he deserved a slap. Now, turn that on it's head and have the male character whack the female across the chops. All of a sudden it becomes a dark tale of abuse, and people would be walking out of the cinema in protest.

Of course the reality is that it's not "OK" for EITHER partner in a relationship to be smacking the other around. Ever.

So, essentially what I'm saying is, regardless of history there are CURRENTLY, in the western world, negative inequalities on both sides that need to be tackled. I'm just not convinced at all that it can be done properly without the terminology being changed to be as it should be if it's to be truly equal: i.e. gender-blind.

I have no problem with people flying the banner of feminism on behalf of areas of the world where women are still genuinely oppressed in the most basic of ways. I just think that what needs to be focused on here at home to find equality is at this point, is actual equality, common ground, rather than an inherent suggestion that it's just women who need protecting / elevating in order to achieve equality.

Not least because there is currently a massive anti-feminist backlash in many areas, and part of that is down to men all too often feeling villainised and therefore becoming defensive. Is it a bit stupid that they do become defensive and lash out? Of course, but unfortunately "stupidity" and "ego" are huge parts of the human condition... so, I don't think it matters that it's stupid. All that matters is moving forward... the term "feminism" feels loaded, and what it's actually come to represent is NOT the definition in the OP. I think the quest for equality is going to be somewhat "stuck in a rut" until the language of equality becomes neutral.

[GypsyGoth]

Feminism has always been about achieving equal rights.

And the media presenting feminism as something radical and militant is a common tactic. It's been used many times in the past and it will be continued to be used because it's so effective. Recently there have been a spate of women displaying signing saying how they don't need feminism for one reason or another. In reality they didn't know what feminism was before they denounced it.

[smudgie]

Yes to being a feminist.
But I am no bra burner.

[Northern Monkey]

Some extreme 'feminists' have unfortunately ruined the terminology for the moderate majority.Also,As TS said in his excellent post above.If equality for both men and women is to ever truly be acheived then a new term which includes both sexes needs to be used instead.Sexism works both ways.The word 'feminist' implies that it only includes women which is a total contradiction to equality.Something along the lines of 'equalist' or 'gender equalist' would be less contradictary.
So no i am not a 'feminist' i am an equalist.

[Ninastar]

Some extreme 'feminists' have unfortunately ruined the terminology for the moderate majority.Also,As TS said in his excellent post above.If equality for both men and women is to ever truly be acheived then a new term which includes both sexes needs to be used instead.Sexism works both ways.The word 'feminist' implies that it only includes women which is a total contradiction to equality.Something along the lines of 'equalist' or 'gender equalist' would be less contradictary.
So no i am not a 'feminist' i am an equalist.

See, this is how I feel.

But yes, either way I believe in equality.

[InOne]

There's a few 'feminists' on my facebook. Always posting pedantic nonsense that makes Men fit into their narrow world view. What's worse is they try pass it off as being intelligent, cultured and worldly. Most Feminists these days strike me as Middle Class rich kids who want to 'belong'. If it wasn't Feminism they were screaming at us they'd no doubt be a member of UAF or Greenpeace

[Brother Leon]

I'm down for equality of course.

If they changed the whole "Feminism" fight to something like "Equality" then I'm sure there would be many more supporters tbh. I'm down for equality even though the name Feminism suggests that it is only Women that suffer from inequality and that there are none whatsoever vice versa.

[the truth]

feminism is a disgusting evil poison that is destroying western society. where we see abuse anywhere in the world of men or women or boys or girls or animals we should all act and seek to stamp it out. but to seek to help one gender over another is vile...its elad to discrimination in law against men, its lead to discrimination in health against men where billions less is spent on mens health..men are more likely to get cancer and die far more likely yet more of the pot goes to women. 1000s more institutions are set up and paid for to support women, far more money far more charities are set up and billions more is spent on women per head.....the law is biased against fathers, biased against family itself. its lead to social cultural bias against men with a million and one double standards across the board. in the end this hurts everyone men and women.the law and the rules and the culture should be equal, period.
where we get mixed up is when we include the middle east and those areas of the world that are 1000 years behind us....we are talking western society where the vast majority of discrimination is against men...men lose 80% of divorce battles, lose their kids in over 80% of divorce battles, lose their homes in over 80% of divorces....men kill themselves at 4 times the rate of women and men die young in every country across the globe

[Livia]

I'm down for equality of course.

If they changed the whole "Feminism" fight to something like "Equality" then I'm sure there would be many more supporters tbh. I'm down for equality even though the name Feminism suggests that it is only Women that suffer from inequality and that there are none whatsoever vice versa.

Got to agree with you BL. Equality is a far better term. I understand the way feminism rose out of centuries of women's oppression... but it's gone too far now and seems to be the domain of women who hate men. I love men, and I'd like to see everyone treated equally and not discriminated against on the grounds of race, sex, sexual orientation or anything other than ability.

[the truth]

Got to agree with you BL. Equality is a far better term. I understand the way feminism rose out of centuries of women's oppression... but it's gone too far now and seems to be the domain of women who hate men. I love men, and I'd like to see everyone treated equally and not discriminated against on the grounds of race, sex, sexual orientation or anything other than ability.

Bravo. The exaggerated revisionism is also dangerous. as if all men deliberately kept all women down. lets get it straight, working class men didn't have any voting rights just over a century ago. the whole country was controlled by landowners. it was simple story of the mega rich versus the rest and it still is....the battle of the sexes is a battle drawn up by the elite designed to get the working masses arguing amongst themselves when they should be battling against the elite........how much will apple pay on their quarterly £10 billion profits? a lot less as a percentage than the people who clean their sewers.........I say equality and justice for all and time to end this phoney war and take up the real one with the elite

[Ninastar]

Got to agree with you BL. Equality is a far better term. I understand the way feminism rose out of centuries of women's oppression... but it's gone too far now and seems to be the domain of women who hate men. I love men, and I'd like to see everyone treated equally and not discriminated against on the grounds of race, sex, sexual orientation or anything other than ability.

agree with all of that apart from loving men lol (not that i hate men, just that i dont love them because i like boobs)

[Kyle]

Egalitarian.

[Nedusa]

There seems to be a bit of stigma attached to this word, so i was just curious what TiBB's stance on it was

Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes

Misandrist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against men

Misogynist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women


with these 3 definitions in mind, and these 3 definitions being the exact definition of the above words, would you call yourself a feminist?

Sorry, but I do not believe this is the definition of a feminist.....




.

[Nedusa]

Feminism was created at a time when women where downtrodden and had little or no rights, it followed on from the suffrage movement which had its peak in the 1920's.

Feminism had a place when the balance was tipped too far in favour of men, in todays world although equality does not exist in every area of life the mainstream areas are pretty even and as such I do not think there is still a place for feminism in its literal meaning.

I also think the feminist movement was hi-jacked by the flat heeled,man hating brigade years ago, and they pretty much won't be happy until men are eradicated.

I agree with the push for further equality but I do not like the idea of trying to push one particular gender ahead of another.





.

[Niamh.]

Feminism was created at a time when women where downtrodden and had little or no rights, it followed on from the suffrage movement which had its peak in the 1920's.

Feminism had a place when the balance was tipped too far in favour of men, in todays world although equality does not exist in every area of life the mainstream areas are pretty even and as such I do not think there is still a place for feminism in its literal meaning.

I also think the feminist movement was hi-jacked by the flat heeled,man hating brigade years ago, and they pretty much won't be happy until men are eradicated.

I agree with the push for further equality but I do not like the idea of trying to push one particular gender ahead of another.





.

mmm good points Nedusa. What would make alot of sense in this day and age to move forward in a united way would be to change Feminism to Equality groups that cater for inequality for both sexes because in areas like fathers Rights for example men are definitely being hard done by, also women being awarded alimony is out dated. Both of these issues at one point in time were needed as women usually didn't work when married and also wouldn't have had as good opportunities as men did to earn a decent wage. And in regards to children, men used not take as active a role as women in raising their children. That has changed but the laws don't seem to have kept up and that can be a terrible thing for a father if a marriage breaks up. Men and women working together to get equal rights for everyone seems like a positive step forward

[DemolitionRed]

I'm a feminist. That doesn't mean I believe all men are potential rapists, it doesn't mean I'm superior to man in any way; it doesn't mean I'm a woman who preaches that we must stand by our ‘sisters’. It simply means I'm neither proud or ashamed to be a woman, I’m just happy to a be a human who has choices.

ED to say, any woman or man for that matter who agrees with my bolded bit is also a feminist.

[Nedusa]

mmm good points Nedusa. What would make alot of sense in this day and age to move forward in a united way would be to change Feminism to Equality groups that cater for inequality for both sexes because in areas like fathers Rights for example men are definitely being hard done by, also women being awarded alimony is out dated. Both of these issues at one point in time were needed as women usually didn't work when married and also wouldn't have had as good opportunities as men did to earn a decent wage. And in regards to children, men used not take as active a role as women in raising their children. That has changed but the laws don't seem to have kept up and that can be a terrible thing for a father if a marriage breaks up. Men and women working together to get equal rights for everyone seems like a positive step forward


Agree........yes if we carefully examine the whole spectrum of rights we would as you say find there are areas where men have less rights (like in Child custody) and areas where women are still under represented.

So taken as a whole I think we need the fight to be more of a general nature where both Men and Womens rights are represented in the areas where they are still lacking.

Either way I still associate the word Feminism with the battle to increase womens rights at the expense of everyone else's regardless of whether there is a desperate need or not.






.

[Niamh.]

Agree........yes if we carefully examine the whole spectrum of rights we would as you say find there are areas where men have less rights (like in Child custody) and areas where women are still under represented.

So taken as a whole I think we need the fight to be more of a general nature where both Men and Womens rights are represented in the areas where they are still lacking.

Either way I still associate the word Feminism with the battle to increase womens rights at the expense of everyone else's regardless of whether there is a desperate need or not.






.

Yeah, maybe it is time for the word to evolve like the cause has, to include both sexes fight for equality

[the truth]

Feminism has always been about achieving equal rights.

And the media presenting feminism as something radical and militant is a common tactic. It's been used many times in the past and it will be continued to be used because it's so effective. Recently there have been a spate of women displaying signing saying how they don't need feminism for one reason or another. In reality they didn't know what feminism was before they denounced it. it hasn't been about equal rights for decades, its now about getting everyone for women..otherwise why isn't male oppression ever seriously talked about, debated , considered? all the points I keep repeating about male suicide rates, death rates, divorce and family figures are barely mentioned in mainstream debate...why?because people are even more afraid of feminists than they are radical islam

[the truth]

yes agree with the posts on equality, equality for all, bravo

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like blonde feminists with a nicely turned ankle and perky do daas

[Cal.]

No bc women are better than men bye

[JoshBB]

People voting that they aren't are blatant misogynists, especially considering that the OP said to vote using the definitions provided.

[Ninastar]

People voting that they aren't are blatant misogynists, especially considering that the OP said to vote using the definitions provided.

This is another reason that people hate 'feminists'

There is absolutely no need for petty name calling just because people might not believe in the same thing as you. This is the main thing I hate about internet logic and it's the main reason I never cared for 'feminism' in the first place.

How about instead of calling people pathetic names which are all just your opinion, try and inspire them and educate them like others have done in this thread. I don't think people who don't believe in 'feminism' are 'blatant misogynists' as you say. If you read what half of them said, you'll find that they are very open minded and understanding indeed.

[Jack_]

Yes I am a feminist and it's important to note that there are many types of feminists, not just radical raving mid life crisis divorcees that hate men. And yes that is a stereotype. And it has ruined the image of feminism because that's all people picture, it's almost a dirty word or thing to be associated with and that's wrong.

[Smithy]

Sorry, but I do not believe this is the definition of a feminist.....



well go look it up in a dictionary, or on google, it's the definition :umm2:


I can understand the reason people don't like the word feminism, because it's more striving towards full equality, but it's still women which are more oppressed then men, so :shrug:

it hasn't been about equal rights for decades, its now about getting everyone for women..otherwise why isn't male oppression ever seriously talked about, debated , considered? all the points I keep repeating about male suicide rates, death rates, divorce and family figures are barely mentioned in mainstream debate...why?because people are even more afraid of feminists than they are radical islam

Sorry, but how are men oppressed more than women?

Women in some parts of the world can't even leave the house without a man by their side and if they do they're punished :umm2:

[user104658]

People voting that they aren't are blatant misogynists, especially considering that the OP said to vote using the definitions provided.
So if I make a poll saying "are you a neo-nazi yes/no" and then follow it up by saying "in this poll, neo-nazi means a lovely fair person who believes in peace and equality for all"

...

Will you vote yes, or no? If you vote no then you are racist.

[user104658]

well go look it up in a dictionary, or on google, it's the definition :umm2:


" The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of the equality of the sexes." - Oxford

As I said before there's more than a slight irony in talking about equality when the definition itself is not equal, by only mentioning women. I advocate women's AND men's rights on the grounds of equality. The definition above suggests that there are no imbalances that favour women and (in the western world) that is simply false. There may be MORE imbalances favouring men, but that is irrelevant, if they exist at all the other way around then only mentioning women's rights in regard to equality is questionable.

If feminism is truly about pure equality, then it is a misnomer. I am not a feminist unless I can also, at the same time, be a "masculist". I would much rather there was a term that encompassed both without using needless gender-based terminology.

[GypsyGoth]

Well TS if you believe in gender equality, you're a feminist, you may not like it, but you are. And yep you can be a masculist, however I don't believe masculism strives for equality.

Also do you get just as upset about the word mankind, or is that fine because it's a male word?

[user104658]

Well TS if you believe in gender equality, you're a feminist, you may not like it, but you are.

Because... who says so? You? I'm sorry but I disagree. I'm certainly not by the dictionary definition, as I pointed out above, and also, it is not insignificant that the word has been "hijacked". I reserve the right to refrain from referring to myself as a feminist - the word has been poisoned. I haven't voted on the poll at all for that reason - I'm hesitant to vote "no" because the implication then is that I don't believe in rights for women, but I refuse to arbitrarily refer to myself as "a feminist" (or as anything else, for that matter) just because a forum poll or a dubious definition says that I "must".

What it amounts to, ironically, is anti-male point scoring. "You HAVE to call yourself a feminist, so HAH!"

And yep you can be a masculist, however I don't believe masculism strives for equality.

"You don't believe" that it strives for equality so you wouldn't use that word. The dictionary definition, and the exact etymology, of the word is identical to feminism only advocating rights for males. Nothing more, nothing less. The point, though, is that I wouldn't use the word at all because I am aware of the connotations. Likewise, I don't believe that "modern feminism" strives for equality, either, hence I don't use the word "feminist" to describe myself.

Either way - apparently it's OK for you to reject the word "Masculist" but NOT OK for me to reject the word "Feminist"? Massive double standard.


Also do you get just as upset about the word mankind, or is that fine because it's a male word?

I don't get "upset" about the term "feminist", I just wouldn't refer to myself as one. It's also a bit contentious because whilst, yes, the word "mankind" is obviously focussed on the "male" in terms of etymology, it does actually in modern usage refer to all humans without exception. Feminism - despite the spammed (and cherry picked) dictionary definitions in this thread - is demonstrably NOT always focussed on equality for both genders. The word might be used as such by many people, but it is a FACT that there are large groups flying the banner of feminism who have absolutely no interest in "equality". The word has become a symbol and that symbol has been corrupted by people with other agendas. "You may not like it, but it has".

For the record, though... I personally would choose the word "humanity" over "mankind".

[Kizzy]

yes, the word "mankind" is obviously focussed on the "male" in terms of etymology, it does actually in modern usage refer to all humans without exception.

Yes due to the patriarchy of setting men before women, the correct term is humankind.

[Firewire]

tried five guys today, hotdog and chips. very expensive but very good.

[Marsh.]

tried five guys today, hotdog and chips. very expensive but very good.

It's taking me way too long to figure out how this relates to the topic.

I give up. Tell me. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

tried five guys today, hotdog and chips. very expensive but very good.

not a feminist then? :think:

[Northern Monkey]

I also think 'humankind' is a better phrase as it is equal for both genders.Feminist is certainly not and i do believe in equality for men and women but i am not feminist.I am an 'equalist'.Equality for both sexes.

[Niamh.]

I also think 'humankind' is a better phrase as it is equal for both genders.Feminist is certainly not and i do believe in equality for men and women but i am not feminist.I am an 'equalist'.Equality for both sexes.

An Equaliser :think:

[Northern Monkey]

An Equaliser :think:Lol no.That would imply that i have the power to make things equal,I don't unfortunately.Or it would imply that i am Edward Woodward,Not him either.

[the truth]

well go look it up in a dictionary, or on google, it's the definition :umm2:


I can understand the reason people don't like the word feminism, because it's more striving towards full equality, but it's still women which are more oppressed then men, so :shrug:



Sorry, but how are men oppressed more than women?

Women in some parts of the world can't even leave the house without a man by their side and if they do they're punished :umm2:

read my posts again, in western society I said men are FAR FAR MORE oppressed than women...not in backwards neanderthal middle eastern countries...these are 2 totally different worlds

[GypsyGoth]

Because... who says so? You? I'm sorry but I disagree. I'm certainly not by the dictionary definition, as I pointed out above, and also, it is not insignificant that the word has been "hijacked". I reserve the right to refrain from referring to myself as a feminist - the word has been poisoned. I haven't voted on the poll at all for that reason - I'm hesitant to vote "no" because the implication then is that I don't believe in rights for women, but I refuse to arbitrarily refer to myself as "a feminist" (or as anything else, for that matter) just because a forum poll or a dubious definition says that I "must".

What it amounts to, ironically, is anti-male point scoring. "You HAVE to call yourself a feminist, so HAH!"



"You don't believe" that it strives for equality so you wouldn't use that word. The dictionary definition, and the exact etymology, of the word is identical to feminism only advocating rights for males. Nothing more, nothing less. The point, though, is that I wouldn't use the word at all because I am aware of the connotations. Likewise, I don't believe that "modern feminism" strives for equality, either, hence I don't use the word "feminist" to describe myself.

Either way - apparently it's OK for you to reject the word "Masculist" but NOT OK for me to reject the word "Feminist"? Massive double standard.




I don't get "upset" about the term "feminist", I just wouldn't refer to myself as one. It's also a bit contentious because whilst, yes, the word "mankind" is obviously focussed on the "male" in terms of etymology, it does actually in modern usage refer to all humans without exception. Feminism - despite the spammed (and cherry picked) dictionary definitions in this thread - is demonstrably NOT always focussed on equality for both genders. The word might be used as such by many people, but it is a FACT that there are large groups flying the banner of feminism who have absolutely no interest in "equality". The word has become a symbol and that symbol has been corrupted by people with other agendas. "You may not like it, but it has".

For the record, though... I personally would choose the word "humanity" over "mankind".


All of the people here who identify as being feminist want equality. We're not trying to trick you here, or get you to sell your soul, we are simply stating that we are feminists and we want equality between the genders. There is no need for us to cherry pick definitions, we're happy with the word. If it's a label you don't like at all, fine, I'll never think of you as a feminist again.

And the masculism groups I've encountered online are nothing like feminism, they actually come across as antifeminist groups, while feminist groups tackle issues in society that effect us all, masculism groups seem to only want to tackle feminism. So I don't reject you calling yourself one of those at all, I only mentioned that they don't stand for equality, because they don't seem interested in that. And if you look at it this way, in a patriarchal society, if you try to increase the rights of women, you will come to a state of equality, however if you just focus on male rights, then the society becomes more unfair.

[user104658]

All of the people here who identify as being feminist want equality. We're not trying to trick you here, or get you to sell your soul, we are simply stating that we are feminists and we want equality between the genders. There is no need for us to cherry pick definitions, we're happy with the word. If it's a label you don't like at all, fine, I'll never think of you as a feminist again.

And the masculism groups I've encountered online are nothing like feminism, they actually come across as antifeminist groups, while feminist groups tackle issues in society that effect us all, masculism groups seem to only want to tackle feminism. So I don't reject you calling yourself one of those at all, I only mentioned that they don't stand for equality, because they don't seem interested in that. I don't think anyone HERE is looking for anything but equality but to say that no one flying the banner of feminism - rightly or not - is actually seeking female supremacy just isn't true. And if you haven't encountered THOSE women / groups online... Then you haven't been looking very hard. They are everywhere, especially all over Social Networking. Of course you're right about the masculist groups being anti-feminism but, again, that's actually part of my reason for not using those terms. These groups are a backlash against what is seen as aggressive feminist groups seeking to redress the imbalance between men and women by "beating men down" rather than elevating women. I fully believe that if groups seeking gender equality were to rebrand in a gender-neutral manner, there would be FAR fewer of these male "backlash" groups. Being unwilling to even consider it seems somewhat stubborn, like there is some sort of problem with removing the "fem" from "feminism", which strangely is sort of... Sexist.

Anyway, my point is that I am NOT a masculist for the same reasons that I am not a feminist. I believe in equality - therefore, I must either be both, or neither. I am neither.

And if you look at it this way, in a patriarchal society, if you try to increase the rights of women, you will come to a state of equality, however if you just focus on male rights, then the society becomes more unfair.

Again, I disagree. This assumes that there are zero examples of women having more rights, or being treated preferentially to, men... Which is simply untrue. I'm not denying that we have a somewhat patriarchal society and I fully accept that women receive unfair treatment more often than men, but so say that it's "always" the case is just false. If you only focus on increasing the rights of women, you will NEVER achieve equality, because there ARE areas that need attention for men. Family law has been used as an example here, and I will use my example from earlier again - in TV / Movies is is still "acceptable" to show a female character hitting / slapping, even punching, her partner as "comedy". The man takes his beating and then usually still stands there with a guilty look on his face like "yup, I deserved that because I was bad!". Can you - honestly - imagine a film that features a male lead character punching his wife in the face, and it being seen as anything but horrific / disgusting? Of course not. Group of women sitting around discussing men's tiny peenies / sexual ineptitude? Funny! Men sitting around discussing women in that way? BOOOO how awful!

Men do - on occasion - get the raw deal. To reiterate, I don't agree with "The Truth", I don't think men have it worse or even as bad, but I do KNOW that there are two sides to the coin and that purely elevating women without addressing sexism against men will never result in equality. And that's why feminism is a misnomer.

We should not be focussing on the "rights of women" or the "rights of men" at all. We should be focussing on the rights of PEOPLE, blind to gender, and ensuring that those rights are equal for EVERY person. Feminism is the wrong word and, even with the best of intentions, clinging to it is counter productive. It breeds resentment, misunderstanding, division and prompts exactly the sort of back-lash groups you mentioned.

[GypsyGoth]

Just LETTING you KNOW that I READ your POST, you're NOT a FEMINIST, I get it!!

[Firewire]

not a feminist then? :think:

This was supposed to be in the "what's for lunch" thread oops

[user104658]

Just LETTING you KNOW that I READ your POST, you're NOT a FEMINIST, I get it!!
Kthx awesome.

[billy123]

well go look it up in a dictionary, or on google, it's the definition :umm2:Unless we are looking up definitions on an American website or using an American dictionary or all of a sudden we are all Americans no it isnt you are wrong.

The definition of feminist in the Oxford English Dictionary is:
"A person who supports feminism."

The definition of feminism in the Oxford English Dictionary is:
"The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

Of course i support gender equality who in their right mind wouldn't but the feminist cause was long ago hijacked by women angry at their failed relationships and taking it out on the world which soiled that entire movement a long time ago so i voted no.

A gender equality movement i think would be a better term.

[Smithy]

read my posts again, in western society I said men are FAR FAR MORE oppressed than women...not in backwards neanderthal middle eastern countries...these are 2 totally different worlds

Ok but yet again you didn't explain HOW men are more oppressed, please do explain

[Mystic Mock]

In it's most basic form yes, it's the Misandrists that hijack Feminism that can put me against it sometimes.

[jennyjuniper]

I've never really been a part of the feminist movement. I enjoy being a woman and I also enjoy good manners in a gentleman. If a man gives up his seat or opens a door for me I always thank them very nicely, because good manners should have some acknowledgement.
Having said that, I stand up for myself, don't ask a man to do what I am capable of doing myself and don't expect preferential treatment because I am a woman.
What I can't stand is the type of woman who bleats about inequality in the sexes, but then uses a 'helpless kitten' approach to getting what she wants from a man.

[kirklancaster]

I've never really been a part of the feminist movement. I enjoy being a woman and I also enjoy good manners in a gentleman. If a man gives up his seat or opens a door for me I always thank them very nicely, because good manners should have some acknowledgement.
Having said that, I stand up for myself, don't ask a man to do what I am capable of doing myself and don't expect preferential treatment because I am a woman.
What I can't stand is the type of woman who bleats about inequality in the sexes, but then uses a 'helpless kitten' approach to getting what she wants from a man.

I'm your man then Scarlett - my name's Rhett Butler.

Joking aside Jenny, I still open doors and have always given up my seat for women when I used to use buses and trains. I also always help them up steps with prams and pushchairs, and always stop to push a few broken down cars for them, but increasingly a lot don't say "Thank you", or ignore me afterwards, or even look at me like I'm a perv.

Sign of the times?

[Kizzy]

Some people are nice and some not so nice, there have always been polite and impolite people, I don't class someone who holds a door a gent jenny just not a noob :laugh:

[the truth]

Ok but yet again you didn't explain HOW men are more oppressed, please do explain

I did re read my posts..........they get billions less spent on their medical health even though they get cancer far more frequently....men die younger in every country on earth, they are discriminated against as fathers, they lose over 80% of divorce cases, over 80% of them lose their home , even though the majority of men have to still continue paying the mortgage so theyre enslaved for life, they also lose over 80% fo custody battles as thr law and law courts and culture is massively biased in favour of women and mothers.....the ratio of organizations and charities supporting women outnumbers those for men by a ratio of over 50 to 1.....its disgusting. women always use the sexism card when it suits them to get their way....people do not deal with the facts. womenonly shortlists for members of parliament is actually illegal and contravenes all equality laws. its a fundamental part of our democracy yet if a man lives in certain counties hes not even allowed to run for parliament and debate the issues......these are just the tip of the iceberg...

culturally woman can say anything they like about men, like and slander them and the man is treated as guilty until proven innocent and his name slandered....yet men get sacked for the slightest trivial comment or joke...weve seen the male hate and the bias for years now....ive seen tv documentaries with studio audiences cheering for men killers in their jail cells....laugh at men who died after having their penises mutilated, endless streams of male hate and bigotry....yet a man makes a joke about a female lineswoman and he gets sacked and loses his home and his wife leaves him and his life falls apart....the endless bile that if we had women politicians thered beno wars? really? Maggie thatcher? the argentian prime minister? 98% of the votes on the Iraq and afghan wars 98% of the votes by female mps voted in favour of the illegal war....biased sexist drivel

[Niall]

it hasn't been about equal rights for decades, its now about getting everyone for women..otherwise why isn't male oppression ever seriously talked about, debated , considered? all the points I keep repeating about male suicide rates, death rates, divorce and family figures are barely mentioned in mainstream debate...why?because people are even more afraid of feminists than they are radical islam

Stupid argument, stupid thought process, stupid points, stupid post. Stupid stupid stupid.

This is precisely why feminism is something that's needed throughout society. Male dominance lingers over the entire world even in spite of the great leaps and bounds that we've come in modern times. Evidence to that fact is everywhere:

Women (on average) earn less than men pretty much across the board
Sexual violence is something that disproportionately affects women with convictions of the assailants being lower than ever
Women are incredibly unrepresented in a realistic manner throughout all media. It's all male focused largely, and the few leading roles that women are assigned are usually misogynistic tropes half the time.
Abortion, a.k.a the right for a woman to have control over her own body, still remains a debate in our society with men being afforded equal say in a debate that can only ever affect women.
Double standards on the basis of appearance and behaviour are a thing that constantly affect women with each and every day - take the word 'bitch' and the connotations and context around it for example.
Women are still often blamed for having sexual violence inflicted upon them by vast swathes of society. You need only look in comment sections on news articles to see that kind of trash.
The emphasis on appearance that women are so often exposed to day in, day out.


I could continue ad nauseum, but I'd be here all day. And need I remind you that those are issues specific to the so called 'developed' world which so many of you seem to think no longer needs feminism because we've achieved equality. I've said nothing of the far worse conditions women are forced to live in elsewhere on this planet, these are just issues specific to Britain and the western world in particular.

Oppression is a real thing that women face every day. Misogyny is a system of oppressive mechanics in place throughout society (both intentionally and unintentionally) that work to the disadvantage of women. Misandry, however, simply does not exist. Sure there might be a couple inequalities here and there but the sheer amount of privilege each man is afforded from birth until death is created by those oppressive systems working to hold him up while keeping the women around him down. It's not necessarily obvious or immediately visible but it doesn't take a whole lot of reflection to see that such a thing is very real, and changing your attitude on the matter is one of the ways we can begin to discredit and dismantle those toxic elements in our society.

[the truth]

I disagree with almost every word....nothing you say is accurate
women are never paid less for doing the same job to the same standard.
the overall average is less as more women choose to break up their careers and go back and also more choose to have kids and live off benefits and the benefits and legal and divorce courts favour women so women often get the kids in over 80% of divorces and often leave their careers...if there wasn't a bias in divorce law then this wouldn't happen so much
billions more is spent on womens health and womens charities and womens support groups to a ratio of over 50 to 1
even though men die of cancer at a far higher rate due to testosterone
men die younger across the whole world
men kill themselves at 4 times the rate of women in western society yet get 50 times less support from the government and from charities?
no one dictates to women over their bodies that's a lie...to make all abortion a feminazi issue is evil
1 million innocent babies get killed in the uk over a period of 6 years
in a vast number of cases the mothers and fathers feel rushed pressurised unsupported and regretful whentheir babies are killed off.......it haunts them for life.....parents need as much time and support and options as are possible to make these informed decisions...feminazis saythats patronising, Id rather been patronized than rush to kill a baby...women have far greater spending power per head too

everyone agrees the middle east still has much barbarism towards womens rights...that's not the issue here..this is western society where men are more discriminated against in every single area of society....men get falsely accused, their reputations ruined careers destroyed families ripped apart......they die young get infinitely less support kill themselves far more lose their kids homes life savings far more.......its a womans world

[jennyjuniper]

I'm your man then Scarlett - my name's Rhett Butler.

Joking aside Jenny, I still open doors and have always given up my seat for women when I used to use buses and trains. I also always help them up steps with prams and pushchairs, and always stop to push a few broken down cars for them, but increasingly a lot don't say "Thank you", or ignore me afterwards, or even look at me like I'm a perv.

Sign of the times?

I think that it's so ungracious not to acknowledge with a thankyou when someone does something nice for us. I'm glad you are a gentleman anyway Rhett:

[the truth]

I think that it's so ungracious not to acknowledge with a thankyou when someone does something nice for us. I'm glad you are a gentleman anyway Rhett:

agreed

[Smithy]

I did re read my posts..........they get billions less spent on their medical health even though they get cancer far more frequently....men die younger in every country on earth, they are discriminated against as fathers, they lose over 80% of divorce cases, over 80% of them lose their home , even though the majority of men have to still continue paying the mortgage so theyre enslaved for life, they also lose over 80% fo custody battles as thr law and law courts and culture is massively biased in favour of women and mothers.....the ratio of organizations and charities supporting women outnumbers those for men by a ratio of over 50 to 1.....its disgusting. women always use the sexism card when it suits them to get their way....people do not deal with the facts. womenonly shortlists for members of parliament is actually illegal and contravenes all equality laws. its a fundamental part of our democracy yet if a man lives in certain counties hes not even allowed to run for parliament and debate the issues......these are just the tip of the iceberg...

culturally woman can say anything they like about men, like and slander them and the man is treated as guilty until proven innocent and his name slandered....yet men get sacked for the slightest trivial comment or joke...weve seen the male hate and the bias for years now....ive seen tv documentaries with studio audiences cheering for men killers in their jail cells....laugh at men who died after having their penises mutilated, endless streams of male hate and bigotry....yet a man makes a joke about a female lineswoman and he gets sacked and loses his home and his wife leaves him and his life falls apart....the endless bile that if we had women politicians thered beno wars? really? Maggie thatcher? the argentian prime minister? 98% of the votes on the Iraq and afghan wars 98% of the votes by female mps voted in favour of the illegal war....biased sexist drivel

Oh my god I would rather stick my head in a blender than argue with this utter bull**** you're spewing

I love that you've just pulled this 80% figure out of your arse and applied it to everything :laugh2:

[the truth]

Oh my god I would rather stick my head in a blender than argue with this utter bull**** you're spewing

I love that you've just pulled this 80% figure out of your arse and applied it to everything :laugh2:

you cant argue because everything \Iive said is TRUTH...YOU DONT CARE BECAUSE YOU DONT CARE about men and you don't want equality you just want everything for women and to hell with men...you ignore male suicides male death rates males losing their children their homes their life savings higher cancer rates billions less on healthcare and support etc everything.........and you just couldn't care less

[sassysocks]

I agree with this and would tend to stay out of discussions about it, and therefore I would not generally identify myself with the 'feminist' tag because it often implies a level of political activism over women's rights that I don't engage in

Yes it implies it - it doesn't make it true.

And by allowing such 'implication' to control your actions you simply give power to those that imply it for their own ends - which is usually weak controlling men who need to see women as second-class or brainless women either desperate for male attention or dumb enough to buy it.

[sassysocks]

I disagree with almost every word....nothing you say is accurate
women are never paid less for doing the same job to the same standard.
the overall average is less as more women choose to break up their careers and go back and also more choose to have kids and live off benefits and the benefits and legal and divorce courts favour women so women often get the kids in over 80% of divorces and often leave their careers...if there wasn't a bias in divorce law then this wouldn't happen so much
billions more is spent on womens health and womens charities and womens support groups to a ratio of over 50 to 1
even though men die of cancer at a far higher rate due to testosterone
men die younger across the whole world
men kill themselves at 4 times the rate of women in western society yet get 50 times less support from the government and from charities?
no one dictates to women over their bodies that's a lie...to make all abortion a feminazi issue is evil
1 million innocent babies get killed in the uk over a period of 6 years
in a vast number of cases the mothers and fathers feel rushed pressurised unsupported and regretful whentheir babies are killed off.......it haunts them for life.....parents need as much time and support and options as are possible to make these informed decisions...feminazis saythats patronising, Id rather been patronized than rush to kill a baby...women have far greater spending power per head too

everyone agrees the middle east still has much barbarism towards womens rights...that's not the issue here..this is western society where men are more discriminated against in every single area of society....men get falsely accused, their reputations ruined careers destroyed families ripped apart......they die young get infinitely less support kill themselves far more lose their kids homes life savings far more.......its a womans world

It is amazing how you attempt to turn things around to blame women. For centuries women had a very bad deal and still do in many parts of the world.

They had no choice in anything, they had no rights in anything, including the law, and as a result were abused terribly with no recourse. They were very much second-class citizens. But thanks to the bravery of the few, things started to change. But those women suffered for their beliefs, some even died, that's what it took for women to start to get a fair deal.

Then those men who feel they have lost control, something many men like to have over women, start to bleat when the oppressed start to have a voice. They don't like it because they like having the upperhand. Tough!

As for all your crap about healtcare - if men are too dumb to care about their own health enough to get off their arses and do something about it instead of spouting hate towards the women who have done just that - they get what they deserve - or are women supposed to do everything for them.

[arista]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7564624#post7564624

[the truth]

It is amazing how you attempt to turn things around to blame women. For centuries women had a very bad deal and still do in many parts of the world.

They had no choice in anything, they had no rights in anything, including the law, and as a result were abused terribly with no recourse. They were very much second-class citizens. But thanks to the bravery of the few, things started to change. But those women suffered for their beliefs, some even died, that's what it took for women to start to get a fair deal.

Then those men who feel they have lost control, something many men like to have over women, start to bleat when the oppressed start to have a voice. They don't like it because they like having the upperhand. Tough!

As for all your crap about healtcare - if men are too dumb to care about their own health enough to get off their arses and do something about it instead of spouting hate towards the women who have done just that - they get what they deserve - or are women supposed to do everything for them.

spoken like atrue sexist man hater who couldn't give a damn about the mass of male suicides premature deaths lack of investment in their healthcare their cancer their rights their rights as parents etc etc

[Smithy]

spoken like atrue sexist man hater who couldn't give a damn about the mass of male suicides premature deaths lack of investment in their healthcare their cancer their rights their rights as parents etc etc

what has mens suicide got to do with oppression :umm2: maybe the fact more men are in higher paid higher role jobs is too stressful for them, so they check themselves off a bridge

[Samuel.]

I'm certainly for equality but I hate being representated by a label, especially one that is one gender focused. Of course equality of the sexes right now requires the heightening respect for that gender, but I believe in equality of all and feel uncomfortable aligning myself with one that has a specific goal. In fact I just don't like aligning myself with anything at all :laugh: I have my opinions but I don't want to be put into a category for them. There's always more to be learnt about any topic so my opinions are always open to change.

So no, while I agree with movement I don't consider myself one.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

samuel you support chris brown so the short answer is no

[sassysocks]

spoken like atrue sexist man hater who couldn't give a damn about the mass of male suicides premature deaths lack of investment in their healthcare their cancer their rights their rights as parents etc etc

Says a true sexist womanhater!

About time men like you took some responsibility for their own lives and stopped trying to blame women for all their inadequacies.

As I said, get off your backside and see a doctor if you have any health concerns - take charge of your own health, just as women have done.

[DemolitionRed]

you cant argue because everything \Iive said is TRUTH...YOU DONT CARE BECAUSE YOU DONT CARE about men and you don't want equality you just want everything for women and to hell with men...you ignore male suicides male death rates males losing their children their homes their life savings higher cancer rates billions less on healthcare and support etc everything.........and you just couldn't care less

Nobody is saying they don't want equality or they don't care but you can't make random claims without backing them up.

The reason there are more male suicides than female suicides is, when men attempt suicide its in their makeup to do it in a much more violent way. A man is more likely to jump in front of a train than a woman. A woman is more likely to slit her wrists or take an overdose. Men are less likely to seek help during the suicidal thought process.

Male drinking and eating habits are among reasons why they are 35% more likely to die from disease than women. They are more likely to smoke long term and when they get signs of a disease such as testicular cancer, they are less likely to visit a doctor early on. These are key factors regarding male mortality rates versus female mortality rates.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/29/men-cancer-deaths-greater-women

Heart and circulatory disease kills more than 82,000 women in the UK each year - compared with 79,000 men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26472725 and one of the reasons for this is, when a woman presents herself to her GP with symptoms, she is much more likely to be sent home with some remedy for indigestion than if she was a man.

Can you post a link to "billions less in health care" so we can understand the reasons?

I have to agree with you about men losing out when it comes to keeping their children or the family home and I think we should have a fairer system in place. I believe there are many instances when the child/children would be better off with the father. Too many men end up out on the street or having to start again from scratch and too many women get away with not having to pay maintance. I think its higly unfair that when a man finds himself homeless he's less likely to get help than a homeless woman.

Being a feminist is about equality and as a feminist I would fight your corner and not just my own.

[sassysocks]

Nobody is saying they don't want equality or they don't care but you can't make random claims without backing them up.

The reason there are more male suicides than female suicides is, when men attempt suicide its in their makeup to do it in a much more violent way. A man is more likely to jump in front of a train than a woman. A woman is more likely to slit her wrists or take an overdose. Men are less likely to seek help during the suicidal thought process.

Male drinking and eating habits are among reasons why they are 35% more likely to die from disease than women. They are more likely to smoke long term and when they get signs of a disease such as testicular cancer, they are less likely to visit a doctor early on. These are key factors regarding male mortality rates versus female mortality rates.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/29/men-cancer-deaths-greater-women

Heart and circulatory disease kills more than 82,000 women in the UK each year - compared with 79,000 men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26472725 and one of the reasons for this is, when a woman presents herself to her GP with symptoms, she is much more likely to be sent home with some remedy for indigestion than if she was a man.

Can you post a link to "billions less in health care" so we can understand the reasons?

I have to agree with you about men losing out when it comes to keeping their children or the family home and I think we should have a fairer system in place. I believe there are many instances when the child/children would be better off with the father. Too many men end up out on the street or having to start again from scratch and too many women get away with not having to pay maintance. I think its higly unfair that when a man finds himself homeless he's less likely to get help than a homeless woman.

Being a feminist is about equality and as a feminist I would fight your corner and not just my own.

Women have always been more aware of their own mortality and acted on any health concerns they had instead of ignoring them the way many men tend to do.

Do men honestly think women are less scared about the prospect of being told they may have something like cancer. Of course they aren't but in most cases they want to be there for their kids, so they act on their concerns by going to see the doctor, something they do more for their kids than themselves. Why can't men do the same? If they care about their kids and themselves, they would be more proactive in their own health rather than focusing on their fear and then whining on about what a raw deal they are getting.

Women have become more proactive in preserving their own health by campaining for better screening and care for common female cancers rather than sit there and expect others to do it, the way men like the 'truth' do. A real man would look after himself for the sake of his children.

As far as getting custody of the children is concerned, that originally came about as previous generations of men did not want to take on the responisibilty of looking after their kids, they considered it a woman's job. Again they were thinking of themselves.

Now views on child rearing have changed and more men are keen to do it, the fact that women appear to get preference has become a bone of contention. However, now that the one with custody of the chidren is more likely to get to remain in the house may, in some cases, be the reason for this contention.

At the end of the day, what is best for the children is what counts, not the gender of the parent, and it seems to me that a man who appears to focus all his atentions on blaming women for all his ills is not likely to be it. It has nothing to do with inequality.

[Northern Monkey]

If i hold the door open for a woman....Bitch better be greatful.

[Ninastar]

vNErQFmOwq0

Pretty much agree with her 100%

[hannah.]

I agree with pretty much everything Caitlyn said.

Also as mentioned, more men die from preeeetty much everything because they go to the doctors less... This is particularly the case for suicide; men are much less likely to seek help for mental health problems; this doesn't mean that they are more at risk from suffering, just that they deal with it differently.

This also explains why much less healthcare is spent on men, it's not a huge conspiracy to kill males off, and the truth's implication of that is at the least laughable, and at the most actually quite scary.

[empire]

feminism has wrecked family values, and forcing men too be less masculine, it has made males and young boys, more feminine and girly, I have seen girls forcing there boyfriends too be more like them, soft and fluffy, they have made one sided kangaroo court system, they want women who have sexually abused children, not too be jailed, and instead be giving treatment, for there predator behavior, and not too be put on the sex offenders list, feminist politicians have blocked a plan to make it illegal for women who tamper with condoms, when there male partner does not want children with her, inturn, he ends up paying the costs for that child,

[Smithy]

vNErQFmOwq0

Pretty much agree with her 100%

I only watched a minute and half then I turned it off... She was literally listing a bunch of reasons as to why we need feminism :joker:


"I'm not a femenist because I believe that both genders should be treated equally" oh good lord, shut her up :laugh2:

[Benjamin]

I believe everyone to be equal but man it gets on my tits when some feminists go too far

This, they cross over into the Misandrist zone and blame men for everything bad that happens to women. It's like firstly, stop blaming ALL men as we are not all the same, secondly some womem are also to blame for things that happen to other women, where is your hate for them?

[GypsyGoth]

“My response to the “I am not a feminist” internet phenomenon….

First of all, it’s clear you don’t know what feminism is. But I’m not going to explain it to you. You can google it. To quote an old friend, “I’m not the feminist babysitter.”

But here is what I think you should know.

You’re insulting every woman who was forcibly restrained in a jail cell with a feeding tube down her throat for your right to vote, less than 100 years ago.

You’re degrading every woman who has accessed a rape crisis center, which wouldn’t exist without the feminist movement.

You’re undermining every woman who fought to make marital rape a crime (it was legal until 1993).

You’re spitting on the legacy of every woman who fought for women to be allowed to own property (1848). For the abolition of slavery and the rise of the labor union. For the right to divorce. For women to be allowed to have access to birth control (Comstock laws). For middle and upper class women to be allowed to work outside the home (poor women have always worked outside the home). To make domestic violence a crime in the US (It is very much legal in many parts of the world). To make workplace sexual harassment a crime.

In short, you know not what you speak of. You reap the rewards of these women’s sacrifices every day of your life. When you grin with your cutsey sign about how you’re not a feminist, you ignorantly spit on the sacred struggle of the past 200 years. You bite the hand that has fed you freedom, safety, and a voice.

In short, kiss my ass, you ignorant little jerks.”


This was written by Libby Anne and I think she articulates it better than I could.

[Jay.]

i can see the reasons for and against saying you're a feminist like people who say they are against it saying that just want equality for all, but i'd still say i was a feminist...

just here for everyone to be happy tbh :hee:

[Smithy]

This, they cross over into the Misandrist zone and blame men for everything bad that happens to women. It's like firstly, stop blaming ALL men as we are not all the same, secondly some womem are also to blame for things that happen to other women, where is your hate for them?

But then they're misandrists not feminists? Just because they say they're one thing and act the opposite means that they're not what they said they are

It's literally like me saying I'm not racist... [uses racial slurs] and you saying, ah yeah but he said he's not racist, so he obviously isnt

“My response to the “I am not a feminist” internet phenomenon….

First of all, it’s clear you don’t know what feminism is. But I’m not going to explain it to you. You can google it. To quote an old friend, “I’m not the feminist babysitter.”

But here is what I think you should know.

You’re insulting every woman who was forcibly restrained in a jail cell with a feeding tube down her throat for your right to vote, less than 100 years ago.

You’re degrading every woman who has accessed a rape crisis center, which wouldn’t exist without the feminist movement.

You’re undermining every woman who fought to make marital rape a crime (it was legal until 1993).

You’re spitting on the legacy of every woman who fought for women to be allowed to own property (1848). For the abolition of slavery and the rise of the labor union. For the right to divorce. For women to be allowed to have access to birth control (Comstock laws). For middle and upper class women to be allowed to work outside the home (poor women have always worked outside the home). To make domestic violence a crime in the US (It is very much legal in many parts of the world). To make workplace sexual harassment a crime.

In short, you know not what you speak of. You reap the rewards of these women’s sacrifices every day of your life. When you grin with your cutsey sign about how you’re not a feminist, you ignorantly spit on the sacred struggle of the past 200 years. You bite the hand that has fed you freedom, safety, and a voice.

In short, kiss my ass, you ignorant little jerks.”


This was written by Libby Anne and I think she articulates it better than I could.
:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

Anyone noticed not many of the 'I'm not a feminist' advocates are over 20?..

WWTD (what would Taylor do?)

[Benjamin]

But then they're misandrists not feminists? Just because they say they're one thing and act the opposite means that they're not what they said they are




That's what I mean. They claim to be feminists (and may have started out as such) but then cross over to misandrists (so are no longer feminists). :laugh:

[Benjamin]

Anyone noticed not many of the 'I'm not a feminist' advocates are over 20?..

I clicked the wrong one by the way. Of course I want everyone to be equal, who wouldn't?

[Kizzy]

I clicked the wrong one by the way. Of course I want everyone to be equal, who wouldn't?

Sorry Ben I didn't mean on here, I mean holding the signs but I agree who really wouldn't want equal ops?

[Smithy]

Anyone noticed not many of the 'I'm not a feminist' advocates are over 20?..

WWTD (what would Taylor do?)

Quite funny I think (nearly) all are men too :laugh:

[Samuel.]

vNErQFmOwq0

Pretty much agree with her 100%

Speaks some truth

[Kizzy]

Hmm... are women raping these men? No, they aren't, therefore it's not relevant in the same context for me.
Of course prison reform is needed but is it a feminist issue?

[Niamh.]

“My response to the “I am not a feminist” internet phenomenon….

First of all, it’s clear you don’t know what feminism is. But I’m not going to explain it to you. You can google it. To quote an old friend, “I’m not the feminist babysitter.”

But here is what I think you should know.

You’re insulting every woman who was forcibly restrained in a jail cell with a feeding tube down her throat for your right to vote, less than 100 years ago.

You’re degrading every woman who has accessed a rape crisis center, which wouldn’t exist without the feminist movement.

You’re undermining every woman who fought to make marital rape a crime (it was legal until 1993).

You’re spitting on the legacy of every woman who fought for women to be allowed to own property (1848). For the abolition of slavery and the rise of the labor union. For the right to divorce. For women to be allowed to have access to birth control (Comstock laws). For middle and upper class women to be allowed to work outside the home (poor women have always worked outside the home). To make domestic violence a crime in the US (It is very much legal in many parts of the world). To make workplace sexual harassment a crime.

In short, you know not what you speak of. You reap the rewards of these women’s sacrifices every day of your life. When you grin with your cutsey sign about how you’re not a feminist, you ignorantly spit on the sacred struggle of the past 200 years. You bite the hand that has fed you freedom, safety, and a voice.

In short, kiss my ass, you ignorant little jerks.”


This was written by Libby Anne and I think she articulates it better than I could.

:clap2:

[Tom4784]

If you believe in equality between the sexes then you are a feminist, end of discussion on that point.

[user104658]

If you believe in equality between the sexes then you are a feminist, end of discussion on that point.
Why do people keep stating this like it's a fact when it's simply... Err... Not? Did someone famous say it or something? Was it spammed across Facebook attributed to some random celebface?

[Smithy]

Why do people keep stating this like it's a fact when it's simply... Err... Not? Did someone famous say it or something? Was it spammed across Facebook attributed to some random celebface?

because thats the definition of it? :conf2:

[Niamh.]

because thats the definition of it? :conf2:

Exactly, unfortunately it's been turned into a dirty word meaning manhaters lately.

[Kizzy]

If you want equality for men in the family courts also then does this automatically make you a feminist?

[Tom4784]

Why do people keep stating this like it's a fact when it's simply... Err... Not? Did someone famous say it or something? Was it spammed across Facebook attributed to some random celebface?

Look it up in a dictionary perhaps? If you don't think that's what feminism means then you've been caught up in the negative spin designed to discredit it.

[user104658]

because thats the definition of it? :conf2:
I'm going to post this again. I've already posted it on this thread but apparently no one wanted to actually read it.

This is the ACTUAL DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF FEMINISM from the Oxford dictionary, I am copy and pasting it, word for word:

Feminism, noun:

"The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of the equality of the sexes."


This does NOT translate to "if you believe in equality you are a feminist" or anything even approaching that. Feminism is inherently sexist, it always will be inherently sexist, and therefore not only is it not about equality, it CAN NEVER BE about equality until it is genuinely gender blind.

That includes losing the gender biased terminology.

[user104658]

Look it up in a dictionary perhaps? If you don't think that's what feminism means then you've been caught up in the negative spin designed to discredit it.
As you can see, I have, unlike apparently everyone else.

[Tom4784]

I'm going to post this again. I've already posted it on this thread but apparently no one wanted to actually read it.

This is the ACTUAL DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF FEMINISM from the Oxford dictionary, I am copy and pasting it, word for word:

Feminism, noun:

"The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of the equality of the sexes."


This does NOT translate to "if you believe in equality you are a feminist" or anything even approaching that. Feminism is inherently sexist, it always will be inherently sexist, and therefore not only is it not about equality, it CAN NEVER BE about equality until it is genuinely gender blind.

That includes losing the gender biased terminology.

Perhaps you should read the entire definition first before frothing at the mouth at seeing the phrase 'women's rights'?

Feminism is about equality, it's obviously focused more on women's rights because it isn't equal and anyone that believes the scales are equal are foolish and gullible for buying into the negative spin.

[Firewire]

I love meninists

[user104658]

Perhaps you should read the entire definition first before frothing at the mouth at seeing the phrase 'women's rights'?

Feminism is about equality, it's obviously focused more on women's rights because it isn't equal and anyone that believes the scales are equal are foolish and gullible for buying into the negative spin.
I fully believe in equality for all people, be it on the grounds of gender, race, sexual orientation, upbringing, circumstance, whatever. That should be fairly evident from the bulk of my posts on this forum. I am aware that it's not always a level playing field. That applies on many more layers than just gender, and gender isn't even the most significant of them. I also accept that first and second wave feminism over the last century or so has been vital.

But I also believe, fully, that modern feminism does nothing more than further division and in doing so, encourage inequality. It is a hot mess. I am not a feminist. I will not define myself as a feminist. And I refuse to be bullied into doing so by people who can't see beyond default terminology and established political norms.

It needs changed. I'm not being part of the problem.

[Kizzy]

I just like people... :/

[user104658]

I just like people... :/
Well I personally wouldn't go that far, I can't stand most people, but... I can't stand them equally :joker:

[DemolitionRed]

I also think 'humankind' is a better phrase as it is equal for both genders.Feminist is certainly not and i do believe in equality for men and women but i am not feminist.I am an 'equalist'.Equality for both sexes.

I think the word 'equalist' instantly says more about you than the word 'feminist'. If I tell someone I am a 'feminist' I have to accept that all manner of things will pop into their minds but if I simply say I'm an 'equalist', all that says is I like equality for men and equality for women.

[Firewire]

"Equalist" isn't even a word. That could mean bringing down men's rights to relate to women's rights. It's feminism because it's trying to match whatever superiority men have and thus becoming equal. There are advantages to being both genders, but feminism fights all corners.

[user104658]

"Equalist" isn't even a word. That could mean bringing down men's rights to relate to women's rights. It's feminism because it's trying to match whatever superiority men have and thus becoming equal. There are advantages to being both genders, but feminism fights all corners.
This is a contradiction.

[Firewire]

This is a contradiction.

How so?

[user104658]

How so?
You say that it's about raising women up where men have an advantage to ensure equality but then in the same breath admit that there are advantages to both, and suggest that feminism fights all corners... Even if that last part were true, it would render "feminism" a misnomer. A damaging misnomer.

[swinearefine]

FACT: the world is misogynistic and male-dominated and men do NOT get the short end of the stick and there are not different types of advantages bla bla bla. There are lots of issues men face, stereotypes and roles they have to fit in to because of the whim of society. They have to bottle up their emotions and present a "macho" front, get drafted into wars (men still have to register for the draft here in the US when they turn 18), etc. But here's the thing: OTHER MEN are responsible for those issues! The patriarchy is responsible for the inequalities between men and women and for creating the gender roles they have been stuffed into, gender roles which relegate women to the status of the other and the inferior.

If you're not a feminist you're a misogynist, that's all there is to it.

[Smithy]

FACT: the world is misogynistic and male-dominated and men do NOT get the short end of the stick and there are not different types of advantages bla bla bla. There are lots of issues men face, stereotypes and roles they have to fit in to because of the whim of society. They have to bottle up their emotions and present a "macho" front, get drafted into wars (men still have to register for the draft here in the US when they turn 18), etc. But here's the thing: OTHER MEN are responsible for those issues! The patriarchy is responsible for the inequalities between men and women and for creating the gender roles they have been stuffed into, gender roles which relegate women to the status of the other and the inferior.

If you're not a feminist you're a misogynist, that's all there is to it.

http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar62996_2.gif

Me crying bc I have to get a mop to clean up all this tea you spilt

[Samuel.]

FACT: the world is misogynistic and male-dominated and men do NOT get the short end of the stick and there are not different types of advantages bla bla bla. There are lots of issues men face, stereotypes and roles they have to fit in to because of the whim of society. They have to bottle up their emotions and present a "macho" front, get drafted into wars (men still have to register for the draft here in the US when they turn 18), etc. But here's the thing: OTHER MEN are responsible for those issues! The patriarchy is responsible for the inequalities between men and women and for creating the gender roles they have been stuffed into, gender roles which relegate women to the status of the other and the inferior.

If you're not a feminist you're a misogynist, that's all there is to it.

Ridiculous statement. Just because you may not necessarily be in support of a movement, it doesn't automatically mean you're against it. You can quite easily be neither.

[Kizzy]

For a society who hates labels and boxes people sure like putting others in boxes with labels on.

[the truth]

FACT: the world is misogynistic and male-dominated and men do NOT get the short end of the stick and there are not different types of advantages bla bla bla. There are lots of issues men face, stereotypes and roles they have to fit in to because of the whim of society. They have to bottle up their emotions and present a "macho" front, get drafted into wars (men still have to register for the draft here in the US when they turn 18), etc. But here's the thing: OTHER MEN are responsible for those issues! The patriarchy is responsible for the inequalities between men and women and for creating the gender roles they have been stuffed into, gender roles which relegate women to the status of the other and the inferior.

If you're not a feminist you're a misogynist, that's all there is to it.

Bigoted bile and lies

women have the advantage in EVERY situation in british society
women keep the kids
women keep the home
women keep haf their partners income
there is 4 times more money spent on womens health
women outlive men by 4 to 5 years in every country on earth
women have a ratio of over 50 to 1 charities and institutions
4 times as much is spent on womens cancer, despite the fact MORE men die of cancer
men are under represented in loads of areas of british life, especially nursery primary and secondary schools
over 50% children grow up with no father
over 4 times as any men kill themselves every year in every country onearth and NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT
over 80 million MEN died fighting fascism and Nazism in the 1940s
the average age of MEN killed in the Vietnam war was 19
working class MEN WERENT ALLOWED VOTE Either 110 years ago but feminists ignore than because they don't want equality for men at all they just want everything for women so they are one big lie
women have 70% of the spending power
men work longer hours on average and stick to the same career on average hence why in the longer term the men who stick at the same job get paid more
women only shortlists are illegal
boys are light years behind girls in schools at all ages and NOTHING is done about it
issues like smoking in pregnancy, were not allowed to discuss it in case it patronizes super sensitive women...meanwhile their unborn babies become disabled , deformed and face a lifetime or breathing problems because of it, or simply die prematurely
abortion. we cant talk about it. men aren't allowed an opinion, despite the fact its their child in the womb too, now we have world record levels of abortion...1 million babies aborted every 6 years, but were not allowed to talk about it in case it offends womens delicate sensibilities

women are NOT more peaceful there will probably be more wars with women in charge. why? well on average women politicians voted higher in favour of wars? in fact 98% of female british mps voted for the illegal Iraq invasion

women can say ANYTHING ABOUT MEN , slander, lie, falsely accuse, ive even heard women threaten to falsely accuse unless they get their way,,,they can call them pigs, generalize about all men as being lying cheating bastards and everyone is meant TO laugh...I saw 1 tv show with Sharon osbourne who told female murderers in prison they were right to have killed their husbans and the audience laughed....I saw another where they all laughed about a women who cut her husbands penis off and he bled to death...HILARIOUS...if a man said that or even joked about it..(or even joked about a lineswoman)..HE GETS SACKED AND HIS REPUTATION AND CAREER IS DESTROYED FOREVER AND IN MANY CASES HE THEN LOSES HIS HOME AND HIS WIFE LEAVES HIM AND TAKES HIS HOME AND THE CHILDREN? NO WONDER MALE SUICIDE IS SO HIGH?

women can make up lies about men to try and destroy them all the time and get away with it because their name is kept anonymous?

men NEVER accuse women of abuse or harassment because 1) the laws and the culture ignore mens problems and 2) WORKING men simply haven't the time as theyre working themselves into an early grave trying to pay all their bills and for their ex wives the homes they were kicked out of and the kids they still pay for but aren't allowed to see because the mother has poisoned them against him....women are even allowed to lie about who is the farther for years, they get years of income from ex partners from it, yet are never ever charged for that crime? women always find a way out , even when commiting perjury, false accusation, lies about paternity and destroyed mens property....they'll cry, they'll blame it on hormones, they'll claim emotional abuse, whatever that means, oh and they'll say don't lock me up who will look after my children? LOOK AROUND YOU. the behaviour of young women is 100 times worse than men, the attitude the abuse, the theft, the lies are endless

OH AND it was a MAN who fought all his life to get women and working class people the vote, a MAN who fought to get women and men the welfare state, a MAN who fought to get women and men national insurance, A MAN who fought to create the national health service....THESE NASTY MEN.....and nearly all medical advancements that save our lives every minute of every day were created by , yes you guessed it MEN....even in the most dangerous jobs, who goes into the most dangerous scenes first men, ALWAYS MEN....if a ship sinks, who do they save first, WOMEN ALWAYS WOMEN, FUNNY THEY DONT CLAIM TO BE PATRONISED IN THAT SITUATION?

now as the argument of the feminists is absurd and they lose the argument they always try to disingenuously change the subject and talk about the middle east? wrong ....Im talking UK and western society....which is profoundly sexist AGAINST MEN.

THE middle east is a bloodbath now thanks in huge part to the elite rich bombing them to hell for 100 years...these places used to be cradles of enlightenment and were even more democratic years ago...yes I concede some of their religious texts are absurd and the way the hardliners pervert them is also obscene. Is it sexist? theyre nutters. they kill more boys than girls. they train more boys to blow themselves up. ITS NOT A WAR OF THE SEXES. ITS A WAR BETWEEN THE ELITE RICH AND THE POOR, MASQUERADED AS SOMETHING ELSE.

the middle east is in the dark ages in many ways...though even there women vastly outnumber male graduates.

MEANWHILE BACK HOME where do men go when theyre being harssassed? no one listens nor cares...no wonder men die so young
feministseven screamed when they had to work to the same age as men? why? being as they live so much longer maybe they should work longer too?

THERE WAS NO WAR BETWEEN THE SEXES IN BRITISH SOCIETY THAT IS A LIE MADE UP BY MAN HATING FEMINISTS....THE WAR HAS IS AND ALWAYS WAS BETWEEN THE ELITE RULING CLASSES AND THE REST

[MB.]

I like how you bring up average life expectancy being longer for women as an example of them being more privileged than men, as if it's something we have to stop.

[Ninastar]

who would have thought I'd see the day where I agree with Toy_Soldier and not everyone else...

[Firewire]

Why do men get so worked up about this? I honestly couldn't care less

[the truth]

You say that it's about raising women up where men have an advantage to ensure equality but then in the same breath admit that there are advantages to both, and suggest that feminism fights all corners... Even if that last part were true, it would render "feminism" a misnomer. A damaging misnomer.

she IGNORES the areas where women have an advantage and chooses not to address them, typical feminism , it claimed it wanted equality this proves they don't want equality they just want to grab as much for women as possible and men can go to hell

[arista]

Yes.


No you can not be

you are a Fella

[user104658]

FACT: the world is misogynistic and male-dominated and men do NOT get the short end of the stick and there are not different types of advantages bla bla bla. There are lots of issues men face, stereotypes and roles they have to fit in to because of the whim of society. They have to bottle up their emotions and present a "macho" front, get drafted into wars (men still have to register for the draft here in the US when they turn 18), etc. But here's the thing: OTHER MEN are responsible for those issues! The patriarchy is responsible for the inequalities between men and women and for creating the gender roles they have been stuffed into, gender roles which relegate women to the status of the other and the inferior.

If you're not a feminist you're a misogynist, that's all there is to it.
You are 90% correct but ultimately miss the mark. The world is controlled by a privileged elite and we are ALL ultimately at their mercy. This privilege is one that these people are, for the mostpart, born into and has absolutely nothing at all to do with gender. Calling it "the patriarchy" is misdirection, deliberate misdirection, forged by these very people themselves, to artificially create a gender war taking the attention away from where it squarely belongs: the tiny number of elite who have the rest of us under their boot-heel. Women, men, dwarves, elves, every last ****ing one of us.

The fact that the most powerful of these people are currently male is simply a consequence of 2nd wave feminism having been relatively recent; women are starting to appear more and more frequently in the ranks of the powerful elite now. It doesn't matter. It doesn't improve things for any of us and never will.

If you seek equality you MUST stop being blinded by the flashing lights of the "boys vs girls" debate and everyone, together, must turn their gaze where it belongs. On these people. On these dynasties and corporate entities.

If you think gender equality is more than a drop in the ocean then you are distracted. You are buying the hype that is being sold to you BY these people (plenty of them now female) specifically to keep you distracted. They do not give one tiny **** what you have between your legs so long as you remain productive and work your hands to the bone for their advantage.

Feminism has been corrupted, it is very specifically controlled and it has become toxic. It will never achieve equality and, in fact, is starting to generate a backlash that will only make things worse. So what is the goal? Is it really equality? It can't be because no one seems to care if that goal is even being furthered.

I WILL NOT play a part in that game. I believe in equality. I hope desperately for a world where NONE of us are trodden on by those at the top as every last one of us are today.

I am not a ****ing feminist.

[MB.]

No you can not be

you are a Fella

Well that's him told

[the truth]

You are 90% correct but ultimately miss the mark. The world is controlled by a privileged elite and we are ALL ultimately at their mercy. This privilege is one that these people are, for the mostpart, born into and has absolutely nothing at all to do with gender. Calling it "the patriarchy" is misdirection, deliberate misdirection, forged by these very people themselves, to artificially create a gender war taking the attention away from where it squarely belongs: the tiny number of elite who have the rest of us under their boot-heel. Women, men, dwarves, elves, every last ****ing one of us.

The fact that the most powerful of these people are currently male is simply a consequence of 2nd wave feminism having been relatively recent; women are starting to appear more and more frequently in the ranks of the powerful elite now. It doesn't matter. It doesn't improve things for any if us and never will.

If you seek equality you MUST stop being blinded by the flashing lights of the "boys vs girls" debate and everyone, together, must turn their gaze where it belongs. On these people. On these dynasties and corporate entities.

If you think gender equality is more than a drop in the ocean then you are distracted. You are buying the hype that is being sold to you BY these people (plenty of them now female) specifically to keep you distracted. They do not give one tiny **** what you have between your legs so long as you remain productive and work your hands to the bone for their advantage.

Feminism has been corrupted, it is very specifically controlled and it has become toxic. It will never achieve equality and, in fact, is starting to generate a backlash that will only make things worse. So what is the goal? Is it really equality? It can't be because no one seems to care if that goal is even being furthered.

I WILL NOT play a part in that game. I believe in equality. I hope desperately for a world where NONE of us are trodden on by those at the top as every last one of us are today.

I am not a ****ing feminist.

100% SPOT ON...THE ELITE HAE DIVIDED AND CONQUERED THE MASSES FOR CENTURIES...USING ANYTHING....PHONEY WARS, MONEY, RELIGION, LAND, BRIBERY, BLACKMAIL AND OF COURSE OVER SIMPLISTIC GENDER BRAINWASHING NONSENSE.

Those nasty working class men were to blame for it all though, lets go back 100+ years....hmmm working men living in slums, paid a pittance , working down the mines and quarries , forced to go to war to fight a rich mans war, getting no pension, a pittance to live on, rations....millions died in wars , even the ones who survived and worked with rations and pennies to live off, and walked miles to work anywhere in worn out shoes died young averge age below 40 of tuberculosis...and the pittance of pay they earned was immediately handed to their wives and children........all that and they didn't have a vote either as the landowners controlled everything, you vote against a landowner and you lose your home

ahhhh its a mans world?

ITS A RICH PERSONS WORLD...BY RICH I MEAN ELITIST 100S OF MILLIONS...THAT IS THE ONLY WAR. SADLY IT WILL TAKE BRAINWASHED FEMINISTS ANOTHER 200 YEARS TO LEARN THIS SIMPLE FACT

[user104658]

ITS A RICH PERSONS WORLD...BY RICH I MEAN ELITIST 100S OF MILLIONS...THAT IS THE ONLY WAR. SADLY IT WILL TAKE BRAINWASHED FEMINISTS ANOTHER 200 YEARS TO LEARN THIS SIMPLE FACT

Rare that I agree with you truth but this is accurate: there's only one area worth focusing on when it comes to equality and this is it. Absolutely everything else is just a byproduct of this control.

[Pete.]

At least we know why Jim won CBB now

[MB.]

At least we know why Jim won CBB now

Linda's fault?