Which religion is the true one?

[Crimson Dynamo]

There are around 4200 religions around the world and even in each one there are hundreds if not thousands of interpretations like catholics, protestant etc

But which one do you think is the right one as they cant all be right?:shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Angry-religious-man-via-Shutterstock-615x345.jpg

[Firewire]

wicca

[Mokka]

You did not just start this thread... it can lead to no good :facepalm:

but my answer is they are all wrong :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You did not just start this thread... it can lead to no good :facepalm:

but my answer is they are all wrong :laugh:

and which is the wrongest?

[Mokka]

and which is the wrongest?

Is wrongest a word? oh, it is!!!
I always assumed wrong was wrong.
Religion is wrong, or having a set of beliefs that makes you 100% right if you believe in them and everyone else wrong if they don't is wrong. People are fluid, humanity is fluid, and human nature is fluid. Trying to box these into one belief system or another can't work and hasn't worked since the inception of religion.

[user104658]

We figured out in a thread yesterday that it is, perhaps surprisingly, Scientology.

[the truth]

Christinaity. The rest are either watered down versions , weak immitations or simply inferior.

[Livia]

I guess there's only one way to find out for sure.

[Josy]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

[Marsh.]

I'll tell you when I die.

[Livia]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

If this thread goes on for a hundred pages this will still be the truest post.

[joeysteele]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

That is a really great answer.

[Mokka]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

If this thread goes on for a hundred pages this will still be the truest post.

If only it were true... but that is my point about religion. None of them are only personal, and all of them include a need to convert others to your point of view and to condemn those who are not of the same religion as you.

[DemolitionRed]

They are all right, at least to the people who believe in them.

[Marsh.]

If only it were true... but that is my point about religion. None of them are only personal, and all of them include a need to convert others to your point of view and to condemn those who are not of the same religion as you.

All of them? Well that's not true.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

and that would be fine if, like believing in say Klingons, it was a personal matter and not something that l in out schools :umm2: and in our politics

I am afraid its not all that lovely dovey and anodyne


Look at how young disillusioned men, who dont get enough sex or dates, become radicalised and then commit mass murder to punish people who dont share their religious views.


The fact that people think they are right and others are wrong is front line major problem for mankind right here, right now

and in vfact ISIS probably tow that line the most

[Shaun]

Beyonce.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Beyonce.

amen

[Josy]

and that would be fine if, like believing in say Klingons, it was a personal matter and not something that l in out schools :umm2: and in our politics

I am afraid its not all that lovely dovey and anodyne


Look at how young disillusioned men, who dont get enough sex or dates, become radicalised and then commit mass murder to punish people who dont share their religious views.


The fact that people think they are right and others are wrong is front line major problem for mankind right here, right now

I see you bringing up the school issue a lot in serious debates in regards to religion, if it directly affects you and you don't want your child's education to involve any religion then you can arrange for that with the school or you send them to a non denominational school instead.

It's my personal view that non religious people attempt to force their opinion on others about what they believe rather than the other way round, of course that's not involving extremists but i'm sure you know were I'm coming from.

Your second last sentence is a complete contradiction, if they end up committing mass murder for the reasons you stated then the religion thing is only used as an excuse, the real reason they are angry is because they aren't getting enough sex or dates. Make your mind up? :shrug:

Live and let live.

[Marsh.]

I see you bringing up the school issue a lot in serious debates in regards to religion, if it directly affects you and you don't want your child's education to involve any religion then you can arrange for that with the school or you send them to a non denominational school instead.

It's my personal view that non religious people attempt to force their opinion on others about what they believe rather than the other way round, of course that's not involving extremists but i'm sure you know were I'm coming from.

Your second last sentence is a complete contradiction, if they end up committing mass murder for the reasons you stated then the religion thing is only used as an excuse, the real reason they are angry is because they aren't getting enough sex or dates. Make your mind up? :shrug:

Live and let live.

:clap1:

[Livia]

If only it were true... but that is my point about religion. None of them are only personal, and all of them include a need to convert others to your point of view and to condemn those who are not of the same religion as you.

My religion doesn't actively recruit and I have never condemned anyone for their beliefs or their lack of them - except Leather Trumpet, he's fair game.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I see you bringing up the school issue a lot in serious debates in regards to religion, if it directly affects you and you don't want your child's education to involve any religion then you can arrange for that with the school or you send them to a non denominational school instead.

It's my personal view that non religious people attempt to force their opinion on others about what they believe rather than the other way round, of course that's not involving extremists but i'm sure you know were I'm coming from.

Your second last sentence is a complete contradiction, if they end up committing mass murder for the reasons you stated then the religion thing is only used as an excuse, the real reason they are angry is because they aren't getting enough sex or dates. Make your mind up? :shrug:

Live and let live.

what is your reason for religifying children?

surely you agree that children should be given the best education afforded by the best peer reviewed research available and then when adults if they wish to get into religious cults they can?

[Crimson Dynamo]

:clap1:

kirk teas

:suspect:

[Josy]

what is your reason for religifying children?

surely you agree that children should be given the best education afforded by the best peer reviewed research available and then when adults if they wish to get into religious cults they can?

I personally don't have any reasons or issues, it's not me that mentions it? I was replying to your comment about it :shrug:

Some parents want there children to learn about religion (and btw a lot of schools teach the kids about a wide range of religions not just one) that's not the same as forcing them into a religion.

And just like those parents choose to do that you can choose not to like I mentioned above, just because you have an issue with it doesn't mean everyone does.

[Mokka]

My religion doesn't actively recruit and I have never condemned anyone for their beliefs or their lack of them - except Leather Trumpet, he's fair game.

While I have no idea what religion you claim, and I can believe that you personally have never condemned someone else for their differing beliefs, the design and construct of a religion is faith that the core beliefs of it are the truth, and by saying what you believe is true over anyone's differing beliefs, your religion is putting all others in the category of the condemned by its own doctrine.

"It's true to me that god exists and that if I don't believe in him I go to hell after death" is saying that those not in my religion and belief system are condemned

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes its interesting that many religions seem to have a very sticky end forecast for those who dont join their gang?


:suspect:

i wonder why...

[Ninastar]

I guess there's only one way to find out for sure.


ffFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHTTTTTTT

[Crimson Dynamo]

ffFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHTTTTTTT

hang on

they have been doing that for 5000 years

and Livias one has previous

:suspect:

[Livia]

While I have no idea what religion you claim, and I can believe that you personally have never condemned someone else for their differing beliefs, the design and construct of a religion is faith that the core beliefs of it are the truth, and by saying what you believe is true over anyone's differing beliefs, your religion is putting all others in the category of the condemned by its own doctrine.

"It's true to me that god exists and that if I don't believe in him I go to hell after death" is saying that those not in my religion and belief system are condemned

I'm Jewish and Jews don't believe in hell.

Whatever you believe the design and constructs of a religion are, I personally don't know anyone of any faith who would wish to convert someone... except maybe some Jehovah's Witnesses I lived near once, they were pretty keen on ministry. I've always found that it's people with no faith who are quick to condemn religions by lumping them all together and pulling out the very worst of each one. Extremists - found in virtually all religions - are an exception of course.

[Livia]

hang on

they have been doing that for 5000 years

and Livias one has previous

:suspect:

In our defence, we've spent the last 5000 years either being oppressed or escaping from places.

[Mokka]

I'm Jewish and Jews don't believe in hell.

Whatever you believe the design and constructs of a religion are, I personally don't know anyone of any faith who would wish to convert someone... except maybe some Jehovah's Witnesses I lived near once, they were pretty keen on ministry. I've always found that it's people with no faith who are quick to condemn religions by lumping them all together and pulling out the very worst of each one. Extremists - found in virtually all religions - are an exception of course.

But your faith does believe in a "World to Come" where if you are not born into or apart of the Jewish faith... you do not get to be apart of. A difference to hell yes... but still an exclusion/ condemnation to those who don't qualify.

[Livia]

But your faith does believe in a "World to Come" where if you are not born into or apart of the Jewish faith... you do not get to be apart of. A difference to hell yes... but still an exclusion/ condemnation to those who don't qualify.

I don't get your point. Are you saying that if I believe in an afterlife, I'm condemning others not of my faith?

Who can say what happens after death? No one, not really. My faith teaches me one thing, someone else's faith teaches them something else. Jesus was a Jew who said that he believed in the Laws of Moses. Does that mean that Christians all go to the same place as Jews? Who knows.

The best I can offer you is, I believe in freedom for everyone to worship as they wish, or not worship if they wish, and live a happy, fulfilled life. I don't believe you have to be religious to do that.

[Kazanne]

There are around 4200 religions around the world and even in each one there are hundreds if not thousands of interpretations like catholics, protestant etc

But which one do you think is the right one as they cant all be right?:shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Angry-religious-man-via-Shutterstock-615x345.jpg

Whichever one you believe in I guess.

[user104658]

In our defence, we've spent the last 5000 years either being oppressed or escaping from places.

That sounds rubbish! I think this is why you don't recruit, Livia. You gave up centuries ago because "Join us! You get to be oppressed, AND escape from places." just wasn't selling. Those pesky Christians with their namby-pamby-holdy-handsy magician and those damned door-to-door hard-selling Jovvus Whitnesses were just too hard to compete with. Judaism is a vintage thing, for the more discerning customer. You want to be a Jew? You seek it out yourself! And you had better be bloody sure about your decision.

...I've made myself want to be a Jew now I think. Damn it.

[Livia]

That sounds rubbish! I think this is why you don't recruit, Livia. You gave up centuries ago because "Join us! You get to be oppressed, AND escape from places." just wasn't selling. Those pesky Christians with their namby-pamby-holdy-handsy magician and those damned door-to-door hard-selling Jovvus Whitnesses were just too hard to compete with. Judaism is a vintage thing, for the more discerning customer. You want to be a Jew? You seek it out yourself! And you had better be bloody sure about your decision.

...I've made myself want to be a Jew now I think. Damn it.

LOL... we only accept applicants who are good at accounting, obviously.

[Ninastar]

^and have big noses of course

[Livia]

^and have big noses of course

That's because the air is free!

I don't have a big nose...

[Marsh.]

^and have big noses of course

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

:joker:

[user104658]

LOL... we only accept applicants who are good at accounting, obviously.

Yes. Much like owning a vintage car - being a Jew is rewarding, but expensive. You must be frugal and save a large portion of your money, as you just never know when it will be needed. For escaping.

It's all starting to make sense...

[Livia]

Yes. Much like owning a vintage car - being a Jew is rewarding, but expensive. You must be frugal and save a large portion of your money, as you just never know when it will be needed. For escaping.

It's all starting to make sense...

You get it now... book yourself in for a circumcision immediately.

[user104658]

^and have big noses of course

I think the nose thing is a byproduct rather than a requirement. When you have your head over a desk counting money all day, it just starts to elongate. You can't fight gravity.

I am worried that we're hovering dangerously close to antisemitism at this point...

[Livia]

I think the nose thing is a byproduct rather than a requirement. When you have your head over a desk counting money all day, it just starts to elongate. You can't fight gravity.

I am worried that we're hovering dangerously close to antisemitism at this point...

No, no... it's in the Torah.

Moses proposes all Jews shall have big noses.
Except for Aaron, he'll have a square 'un.

[Ninastar]

That's because the air is free!

I don't have a big nose...


Ahh yes, if there is one things jews like more than money, it's something that's free

[user104658]

You get it now... book yourself in for a circumcision immediately.

I'm actually already done, which makes the prospect of conversion far less terrifying!

In my teens, I was embarrassed about being "different" and actually decided at one point that as an adult I'd just "pretend to be Jewish" to explain why I was circumcised. I am actually serious. I had forgotten about that plan, and have only just realized how hilarious it was :joker:.

My other plan was to "move to America". Ha!

[Livia]

I'm actually already done, which makes the prospect of conversion far less terrifying!

In my teens, I was embarrassed about being "different" and actually decided at one point that as an adult I'd just "pretend to be Jewish" to explain why I was circumcised. I am actually serious. I had forgotten about that plan, and have only just realized how hilarious it was :joker:.

My other plan was to "move to America". Ha!

Pictures, or GTF out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i pretty much pull for the jews because of woody allen

and seinfeld and curb


in fact other religions can KMA

[user104658]

No, no... it's in the Torah.

Moses proposes all Jews shall have big noses.

http://r22.imgfast.net/users/2211/13/17/84/smiles/736173.gif Not sure if serious...

[user104658]

Pictures, or GTF out.

Wife got mad last time I posted dik pix.

And that was to her :(

[Livia]

http://r22.imgfast.net/users/2211/13/17/84/smiles/736173.gif Not sure if serious...

Not serious. Blasphemous probably, but not serious.

[user104658]

i pretty much pull for the jews because of woody allen

Didn't he turn out to be part of Prince Andrew's* paedo-gang though?

*https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4itOhiCAAIWQ5r.jpg

[Nedusa]

We figured out in a thread yesterday that it is, perhaps surprisingly, Scientology.

Yes.... I agree looks like we've all been fooled an Scientology is actually the only true faith......:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Mokka]

I don't get your point. Are you saying that if I believe in an afterlife, I'm condemning others not of my faith?

Who can say what happens after death? No one, not really. My faith teaches me one thing, someone else's faith teaches them something else. Jesus was a Jew who said that he believed in the Laws of Moses. Does that mean that Christians all go to the same place as Jews? Who knows.

Yes... I am saying that at the core of every religion is the "we are right an you are wrong" factor, and none of us knows for sure what if anything happens after death, but the belief in it is an assertion that your belief is right over another, and I can't get on board that train of thought.

The best I can offer you is, I believe in freedom for everyone to worship as they wish, or not worship if they wish, and live a happy, fulfilled life. I don't believe you have to be religious to do that.

I also believe in this same freedom, and I don't try to interfere in others beliefs, and I teach my kids tolerance and respect for all beliefs and ideologies... but I disagree with you that non-religious people are the driving force behind intolerance. Religions themselves are innately intolerant in their structure and strictures.

[Nedusa]

Well...... I'm impressed 52 posts in and nobody is at anybody's throat.

Probably gonna have to wait until the big hitters start posting....

[user104658]

Yes... I am saying that at the core of every religion is the "we are right an you are wrong" factor, and none of us knows for sure what if anything happens after death, but the belief in it is an assertion that your belief is right over another, and I can't get on board that train of thought.

"And lo, Jesus did ascend the steps and address his detractors, with the simplest of rebuttals.

Na na, na naaa na, Na-na-na-na-naaaah nah. Your religion is rubbish and mine is awesome.

And they saw that it was good."

[user104658]

Well...... I'm impressed 52 posts in and nobody is at anybody's throat.

Probably gonna have to wait until the big hitters start posting....

I think the threads somewhat lighthearted first page has ruined any chance of fisticuffs :(.

I also suspect that TiBB is suffering from some major "religion-thread fatigue" at the moment :hehe:

[waterhog]

has anyone heard of my religion ?

the religion of poetry ?

i swear by it.

[Marsh.]

Nedusa is scum! :fist:

[Nedusa]

Didn't he turn out to be part of Prince Andrew's* paedo-gang though?

*https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4itOhiCAAIWQ5r.jpg

Nedusa is scum! :fist:

I love you too......Marsh :kiss::kiss::kiss:

[Kyle]

I am only operating thetan level 2 but obviously the teaching of L.Ron Hubbard are true and you all are suppressive persons.

[InOne]

Well...... I'm impressed 52 posts in and nobody is at anybody's throat.

Probably gonna have to wait until the big hitters start posting....

Someone needs to throw out Pascal's Wager. That'll get things going.

[user104658]

Someone needs to throw out Pascal's Wager. That'll get things going.

Nah, the wager is totally broken in betting terms, it advertises even odds but the real odds are well over 100/1. What a scam!

[InOne]

Nah, the wager is totally broken in betting terms, it advertises even odds but the real odds are well over 100/1. What a scam!

They've been getting away with that one for years! :fist:

[user104658]

They've been getting away with that one for years! :fist:

I'm going to blame Jews. I'm pretty sure Pascal's Wager is Christian but I'm blaming Jews anyway. It's a bandwagon thing. Jews made Jesus in the first place, amirite?

[kirklancaster]

Moved to new thread

[InOne]

I'm going to blame Jews. I'm pretty sure Pascal's Wager is Christian but I'm blaming Jews anyway. It's a bandwagon thing. Jews made Jesus in the first place, amirite?

They made him and when he got a bit too big for his boots decided to throw him away.

[JoshBB]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

This! My personal religion (even though people say it doesn't count as one) is humanism.

[the truth]

If only it were true... but that is my point about religion. None of them are only personal, and all of them include a need to convert others to your point of view and to condemn those who are not of the same religion as you.

how many times has sometime tried to convert you to Christianity in the past decade Im guessing none...whereas atheists try to preach their anti Christian hatred and brainwash people with their doctrine of hate at far more regular intervals in public places too

[Nedusa]

CAPTAIN KIRK'S LOG - TIBB DATE 765,987.1

In the Year 18,980 B.T. (Before The Great Prophet TIBB) Our crew were assigned to InterStellar Investigatory Ship (ISIS) 6546. Our mission? To cruise the entire cosmos in search of intelligent life forms.

The first planet with signs of organic life which we encountered was one which we had classified as 3354 in the Sector 347 - a Solar System near the Andromeda Galaxy.

The creatures were organic but very primitive. and probably the weirdest life forms we had ever encountered. They were elusive and very difficult to capture, but we eventually caught one specimen and beamed it up into our laboratory.

This strange alien was less than 1.5 meters tall and was at first, extremely ferocious, then suddenly timid, as if it was in awe of us. It had heavily wrinkled, leathery brown skin and two deep set obsidian eyes beneath thick long red eyebrows and a shock of thick red hair. The creature had one arm on one side of its slender body and what can only be described as a rudimentary winding handle fashioned from some type of metal on the other side of its body.

The creature seemed to have male genitalia though it was really tiny and obscured by a weird type of pouch hanging from a belt around its waist.

The strangest feature though was its three huge lobed ears - one on the left side, one on the right side, and a FINAL FRONT EAR.

Then the creature looked directly at me and I said; "I am Kirk of the TIBB Federation. Who are you?" The creature spoke - in low guttural, quite aggressive tones which our green hulk of a Cyborg R. E-STAR (ARISTA - geddit?) translated:

"Him Leather Trumpet of Planet Earth. Yes. He Think You Are A God."

I replied "No, I am Kirk a Tibbian." But the creature persisted and R.E STAR translated: "Yes. He Is Sure. Kirk Is His God But No God Only Dawkins".

I raised my hand to halt the laughter from the crew and continued to communicate with our little friend, and it transpired that he came from a land on this planet called 'SCORT' - or as R.E. STAR said; "SCORTLAND". It was revealed that the alien only needed one arm because despite his superficial ferocity, he was half harmless, and that the strange metallic device on the other side of his body was, indeed an ancient winding crank, because Leather Trumpet was a cranky old 'winder upper' - apparently, he was famous among his people for this.

R.E. STAR also questioned him about the strange pouch covering his genitalia and it seemed that Leather Trumpet was some kind of Micro Biologist, because, he apparently used to keep some kind of Spore captive in the pouch but it must have escaped and fled at speed, because R.E. STAR said that the alien kept pointing to his pouch and saying; "MY SPORE RAN."

The strange little alien who had seemed so unfriendly at first soon endeared himself to us as we became used to his ways, and we studied him for over one Tibb Lunar Cycle, then it was time for us to let him go and return to our own world. We asked him where he wanted dropping off and I don't think he understood despite R.E. STAR's best efforts, and we ended up asking him where he would usually be right now if we had not captured him, but he kept referring to being trapped in boggy land - or as R.E. STAR probably misinterpreted it; "Stuck into MARSH".

Anyway, I parted company with the strange little primitive alien but not before patting his head and promising him that one day I would return and take him to my world - if he was good. As we blasted off I was sure that we'd never forget him.

CAPTAIN KIRK'S LOG: SUPPLEMENTAL - TIBB DATE 825,764.5

ISIS 5410 recently returned from 3354 in the Sector 347 of the Andromeda Galaxy - the strange world we visited all those years ago, and the Captain reports that the little alien Leather Trumpet is now the leader and Holy Prophet of the planet's main religion; KIRKISM, which worships a God who came down from the heavens in a fiery metal CABER and promised one day to return.

The sad part is that the prophet Leather Trumpet is carrying out mass slaughter of all those on his world who refuse to convert to Kirkism.

Naw TIBBERS - This is just me, Kirk having a larf - don't worry, nothing like this could ever happen here..........................Could it?

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

[Pete.]

Follow Godney

[user104658]

how many times has sometime tried to convert you to Christianity in the past decade Im guessing none...whereas atheists try to preach their anti Christian hatred and brainwash people with their doctrine of hate at far more regular intervals in public places too

Jehovah's Witnesses are technically Christians so... the answer to this, for anyone, is clearly going to be "several million".

I've also been accosted by quite a few Mormons, though they tend to just grab you in the street rather than come to your door. I've seen a handful of Street Preachers in the center of Glasgow, too, wailing about damnation and the like. So I'd imagine all major cities have their share.

I can't say I've ever encountered anyone "preaching atheism in public", to be fair :shrug:

[Kizzy]

has anyone heard of my religion ?

the religion of poetry ?

i swear by it.

:worship:

Religion no, faith yes.

[Mokka]

how many times has sometime tried to convert you to Christianity in the past decade Im guessing none...whereas atheists try to preach their anti Christian hatred and brainwash people with their doctrine of hate at far more regular intervals in public places too

OMG... well it started in elementary school with the me being the only child in my class that had never taken first communion up until I left the catholic system for public school in Secondary education...

Then when I was in secondary ed... a number of my friends attended a church youth group... so I went along at first and every time I attended I was given the "speech" about accepting Christ or go to hell etc.. etc..

My young mind fell victim and then it became not enough to be a believer but now we were indoctrinated into converting our friends and going out on missionary trips to save the others...

And now, I spend my time deflecting the inlaws from programming my children in this same manner by arming them with general facts about all religions and a sense of self awareness that they don't need a god to save them because they are not guilty, or automatically sinful just for breathing.

Aside from that.... yeah Jehovah's Witnesses

[Mokka]

Incidentally... I have never been a approached by an atheist with their views... but I have found out that some of my friends are atheists just by learning about them as people

also to add to my last post, my son's best friend for 8 years now comes from a family of Christians, and they would invite me over and out to church all the time until they realized I wasn't going to convert... then they lost our phone number

[Nedusa]

Jehovah's Witnesses are technically Christians so... the answer to this, for anyone, is clearly going to be "several million".

I've also been accosted by quite a few Mormons, though they tend to just grab you in the street rather than come to your door. I've seen a handful of Street Preachers in the center of Glasgow, too, wailing about damnation and the like. So I'd imagine all major cities have their share.

I can't say I've ever encountered anyone "preaching atheism in public", to be fair :shrug:

Jehovah's witnesses are like Christianity but far more right wing, they take the bible very seriously and translate it into literal terms.

They take their religion very seriously , it is 60 % Christianity , 30 % Judaism and 10% Delusional disorder.

[Mokka]

Jehovah's witnesses are like Christianity but far more right wing, they take the bible very seriously and translate it into literal terms.

They take their religion very seriously , it is 60 % Christianity , 30 % Judaism and 10% Delusional disorder.

I am starting to thing Christianity in the UK is a far different thing to what it is here in N.A. It is all extremely right wing here and literal.

[kirklancaster]

Jehovah's witnesses are like Christianity but far more right wing, they take the bible very seriously and translate it into literal terms.

They take their religion very seriously , it is 60 % Christianity , 30 % Judaism and 10% Delusional disorder.

:laugh:

[the truth]

OMG... well it started in elementary school with the me being the only child in my class that had never taken first communion up until I left the catholic system for public school in Secondary education...

Then when I was in secondary ed... a number of my friends attended a church youth group... so I went along at first and every time I attended I was given the "speech" about accepting Christ or go to hell etc.. etc..

My young mind fell victim and then it became not enough to be a believer but now we were indoctrinated into converting our friends and going out on missionary trips to save the others...

And now, I spend my time deflecting the inlaws from programming my children in this same manner by arming them with general facts about all religions and a sense of self awareness that they don't need a god to save them because they are not guilty, or automatically sinful just for breathing.

Aside from that.... yeah Jehovah's Witnesses

OMG... well it started in elementary school with the me being the only child in my class that had never taken first communion up until I left the catholic system for public school in Secondary education...

Then when I was in secondary ed... a number of my friends attended a church youth group... so I went along at first and every time I attended I was given the "speech" about accepting Christ or go to hell etc.. etc..

My young mind fell victim and then it became not enough to be a believer but now we were indoctrinated into converting our friends and going out on missionary trips to save the others...

And now, I spend my time deflecting the inlaws from programming my children in this same manner by arming them with general facts about all religions and a sense of self awareness that they don't need a god to save them because they are not guilty, or automatically sinful just for breathing.

Aside from that.... yeah Jehovah's Witnesses

wow you went to a Christian church and they spoke about Christianity , amazing anecdote....and you've NEVER heard atheists being our and aggressive with their views in public? what biased drivel. and those nasty missionaries going round the world feeding the starving in wartorn countries clothing the impoverished raising billions for the poorest sickest most vulnerable people in the world...horrible people...

.no Christian has tried to convert me outside any Church in 20 years , ive had 1 jehovas knock my door and they were perfectly polite...the atheists on here and across the internet shout their abusive hate from the rooftops they demand cheap attention with their often loud aggressive abusive foul mouthed aggressive rants , usually utterly disrespectful to all people with different views and totally intolerant of the fact other people have different beliefs...weve seen where this radical liberalism takes us....it sees radical liberals making themselves Gods making their own rules up and demanding everyone agrees with them or else they get called nasty racist sexist bigots....pathetic.

[Kizzy]

wow you went to a Christian church and they spoke about Christianity , amazing anecdote....and you've NEVER heard atheists being our and aggressive with their views in public? what biased drivel. and those nasty missionaries going round the world feeding the starving in wartorn countries clothing the impoverished raising billions for the poorest sickest most vulnerable people in the world...horrible people...

.no Christian has tried to convert me outside any Church in 20 years , ive had 1 jehovas knock my door and they were perfectly polite...the atheists on here and across the internet shout their abusive hate from the rooftops they demand cheap attention with their often loud aggressive abusive foul mouthed aggressive rants , usually utterly disrespectful to all people with different views and totally intolerant of the fact other people have different beliefs...weve seen where this radical liberalism takes us....it sees radical liberals making themselves Gods making their own rules up and demanding everyone agrees with them or else they get called nasty racist sexist bigots....pathetic.

Why ask others for their experiences then rubbish them and give your own perspective?

[Mokka]

wow you went to a Christian church and they spoke about Christianity , amazing anecdote....and you've NEVER heard atheists being our and aggressive with their views in public? what biased drivel. and those nasty missionaries going round the world feeding the starving in wartorn countries clothing the impoverished raising billions for the poorest sickest most vulnerable people in the world...horrible people...

.no Christian has tried to convert me outside any Church in 20 years , ive had 1 jehovas knock my door and they were perfectly polite...the atheists on here and across the internet shout their abusive hate from the rooftops they demand cheap attention with their often loud aggressive abusive foul mouthed aggressive rants , usually utterly disrespectful to all people with different views and totally intolerant of the fact other people have different beliefs...weve seen where this radical liberalism takes us....it sees radical liberals making themselves Gods making their own rules up and demanding everyone agrees with them or else they get called nasty racist sexist bigots....pathetic.

Wow you are a hardened sort aren't you... and aggressive!

Well as a youth it was framed as a fun place with games and ski trips etc. to hang out at, and the events were not all in a church nor were they apart of a church service, but the conversion tactics were there from the off.

And I don't consider myself particularly bias, I am not a christian now no... but I have been in all the christian circles on my side of the world... even to Bible College for a year and on mission trips ( but I won't go into how they really did not provide help to those they looked down upon)... and I was able to form my own opinion over time.

And of course your going to come across all sorts of aggressive belief patterns on the internet in a chat forum... cause that is where the atheists and the zealots like you will go to spout their propaganda. You honestly think your language and tactics are any better than those you bemoan then you are delusional.

I won't be responding to any more of your posts

[smudgie]

Everyones own religion is true to them, that's all that matters.

You beat me to it.

Everyone's own belief is their truth, even if you are an atheist.

[Kizzy]

Amen to that :)

[user104658]

the atheists on here and across the internet shout their abusive hate from the rooftops they demand cheap attention with their often loud aggressive abusive foul mouthed aggressive rants , usually utterly disrespectful to all people with different views and totally intolerant of the fact other people have different beliefs...weve seen where this radical liberalism takes us....it sees radical liberals making themselves Gods making their own rules up and demanding everyone agrees with them or else they get called nasty racist sexist bigots....pathetic.

And on the 8th day God created great hypocrisy, and he put it on a place called TiBBy, and in his infinite love of irony, he called it "the truth".


P.s. If you have genuinely only had one Jehovah's Witness at your door in decades, you need to share your secret. A large dog, perhaps? Landmines?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think the fact that religion historically has had a position of power and respect and the fact that it is now dwindling to the point of extinction in the UK religionists now feel threatened when anyone dares to question their "faith" or belief with no evidence.

50 years ago if you were very religious people respected you and it gave you status in your community, now it probably has the reverse role.

Thus we get the truths line about aggressive atheists and the like, its a common theme - indeed Dawkins, who is a mild mannered and thoughtful chap gets all this biollocks thrown at him!

[Nedusa]

I think the fact that religion historically has had a position of power and respect and the fact that it is now dwindling to the point of extinction in the UK religionists now feel threatened when anyone dares to question their "faith" or belief with no evidence.

50 years ago if you were very religious people respected you and it gave you status in your community, now it probably has the reverse role.

Thus we get the truths line about aggressive atheists and the like, its a common theme - indeed Dawkins, who is a mild mannered and thoughtful chap gets all this biollocks thrown at him!

I think Religion mirrors the mood of the times or the Zeitgeist, it changes to suit the prevailing mindset. I think large organised Christian Churches like the C of E/Methodist or the Catholic Church have seen falling attendences over the past 30 years but this has been to some extent balanced by the growth in newer more modern churches like the Baptist or Evangelical movements especially with the incease in TV Religious Channels.

I think more people are experiencing their faith on a more personal level so have less desire to trek to a building which may be miles away.

Also the change in perception of Atheism has encouraged more people to openly state they have Atheist or even Anti-Theist views, and who can blame them when they look around at the murderous crimes committed in the name of Deities.

As for Mr Dawkins who is a confirmed Anti-Theist along with the likes of Stephen Fry, well he is entitled to his opinion as long as he doesn't try and ram it down everybody's throat.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think Religion mirrors the mood of the times or the Zeitgeist, it changes to suit the prevailing mindset. I think large organised Christian Churches like the C of E/Methodist or the Catholic Church have seen falling attendences over the past 30 years but this has been to some extent balanced by the growth in newer more modern churches like the Baptist or Evangelical movements especially with the incease in TV Religious Channels.

I think more people are experiencing their faith on a more personal level so have less desire to trek to a building which may be miles away.

Also the change in perception of Atheism has encouraged more people to openly state they have Atheist or even Anti-Theist views, and who can blame them when they look around at the murderous crimes committed in the name of Deities.

As for Mr Dawkins who is a confirmed Anti-Theist along with the likes of Stephen Fry, well he is entitled to his opinion as long as he doesn't try and ram it down everybody's throat.


The so called growth of the pentecostal churches etc is more a reflection of immigration to the main cities than anything.

Dawkins does not ram anything but he does get an awful lot of media calls and invites so that is just a media perception than a reality.

As for religious channels, have you watched any?

if that is the future of religion then its doomed, doomed I tells ya

AqvAJiRAYQc

[user104658]

Also the change in perception of Atheism has encouraged more people to openly state they have Atheist or even Anti-Theist views, and who can blame them when they look around at the murderous crimes committed in the name of Deities.

I actually totally agree with that - I suspect that atheism (and certainly non-religion, plenty believe in an unknowable god / creator but not in any sort of religion or church) is not "on the rise" quite as much as it seems - rather, 50 or 60 years ago it would have been viewed as "odd" or even "shameful" not to be a churchgoing Christian, especially in small communities, non-religious families would have found themselves excluded from a lot of the town's social activities, which would have been church-based. Even when I was in primary school (20 - 25 years ago) a LOT of community activity in the village I lived in centered on the church. I think a lot of people who questioned their religion, or even flat out didn't believe in any of it, would have played along simply because that was "the norm", and people generally don't like to stand up and be "different".

I know that my grandfather on my mum's side (I never knew him, he died before I was born) certainly fell into that category. My mum told me that, when she was an adult, he had confessed in a conversation with her that he wasn't a believer at all. However, he was the headmaster of a high school (parents would probably have burned him at the stake) and my grandmother WAS religious (he told my mum to never ever mention what he had said) and so, he dressed up and attended church every Sunday for most of his life.

[Nedusa]

The so called growth of the pentecostal churches etc is more a reflection of immigration to the main cities than anything.

Dawkins does not ram anything but he does get an awful lot of media calls and invites so that is just a media perception than a reality.

As for religious channels, have you watched any?

if that is the future of religion then its doomed, doomed I tells ya

AqvAJiRAYQc

I've often joked on that in hundreds of years time religion will be looked on by the peoples of the day as a kind of prevailing mass phobia brought on by ignorance and fear , due to lack of understanding of their place and position in the Universe.

There will be religious museums where the history of religion can be shown, and the peoples of the day will look back in slight horror at all the death and destruction this irrational phobia caused for centuries until slowly people evolved become more connected and enlightened and realised they did not need to cling to strange beliefs in invisible people living in the clouds.

I wonder how far away that day actually is.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I've often joked on that in hundreds of years time religion will be looked on by the peoples of the day as a kind of prevailing mass phobia brought on by ignorance and fear , due to lack of understanding of their place and position in the Universe.

There will be religious museums where the history of religion can be shown, and the peoples of the day will look back in slight horror at all the death and destruction this irrational phobia caused for centuries until slowly people evolved become more connected and enlightened and realised they did not need to cling to strange beliefs in invisible people living in the clouds.

I wonder how far away that day actually is.

The power of what your parents tell you is indeed a wonder.

[user104658]

I've often joked on that in hundreds of years time religion will be looked on by the peoples of the day as a kind of prevailing mass phobia brought on by ignorance and fear , due to lack of understanding of their place and position in the Universe.

There will be religious museums where the history of religion can be shown, and the peoples of the day will look back in slight horror at all the death and destruction this irrational phobia caused for centuries until slowly people evolved become more connected and enlightened and realised they did not need to cling to strange beliefs in invisible people living in the clouds.


:omgno:

.................. ......... :flutter:

[Nedusa]

was kinda hoping for a bit more comment than a one line quip and a shocked emoticon...????

how long do you think religion will survive.....

[Crimson Dynamo]

was kinda hoping for a bit more comment than a one line quip and a shocked emoticon...????

how long do you think religion will survive.....

Ignorance and a lack of education seems to survive a long time but the trend is as education increases superstition decreases.

The first thing that needs to happen is the USA needs to face up to its atheism a bit more and a President needs to admit to being one too.

[kirklancaster]

I think the fact that religion historically has had a position of power and respect and the fact that it is now dwindling to the point of extinction in the UK religionists now feel threatened when anyone dares to question their "faith" or belief with no evidence.

50 years ago if you were very religious people respected you and it gave you status in your community, now it probably has the reverse role.

Thus we get the truths line about aggressive atheists and the like, its a common theme - indeed Dawkins, who is a mild mannered and thoughtful chap gets all this biollocks thrown at him!

Many years ago, in all ancient societies, the only way to acquire knowledge was by personal experience. This meant that the wisest members of such societies were invariably the oldest members, which in turn led to the formation of 'Council of Elders' or similar bodies.

Among other duties, the Council of Elders were available for younger citizens with problems, to consult with to receive advice, which led to a long tradition of the aged members of every society being the most respected by other members - especially the young.

As civilization has 'progressed' and become increasingly more technologically advanced, young people now have access to more knowledge at the touch of a button than one million old people (who mainly do not understand such technology) could ever acquire in a million lifetimes each.

This is one of the reasons why (even subconsciously) old people are increasingly no longer respected by a lot of young people - though there are, of course, many other reasons - and this is fair enough; the young now 'know it all'.

It is exactly the same with religion. Scientific advances and increasing technological knowledge now increasingly persuades that God cannot exist, so religion and people of faith are increasingly no longer respected by a lot of others - which is fair enough; modern man now 'knows it all'.

A lack of respect is one thing if it remains just that - live and let live, amicable agreement to differ - but unfortunately, it often does not 'remain just that' and increasingly, some young people do not only not 'respect' old people, but perceive them as weak, defenseless and legitimate targets to bully, intimidate, beat, rob, and murder.

Similarly, where religion and people of faith are concerned, some people who do not believe - armed by their 'scientific knowledge and convinced of the absolute truth of atheism - perceive believers, no matter how moderate, as legitimate targets to bully, intimidate and verbally assault.

The truth of this can be evidenced on various threads on this forum, where the sheer vehemence of some anti-religious posts is both irrational and unwarranted.

There really is no need. I personally could not give a hoot what someone believes or does not believe, or what their reasons are, because I believe in live and let live, and we are all entitled to our own personal views and opinions. Yet, where I have been drawn into discussions on religion, I have often been subjected to 'over the top' abusive counters and been repeatedly forced into a 'defensive' or even 'apologetic' stance, despite the fact that I have always tried to discuss civilly and in a non-confrontational manner.

Science is not always right. Einstein redefined Newtons 'Laws', and new scientific discoveries are constantly proving the lie of other scientific 'laws' which we once regarded as absolutes.

Dawkins' book is riddled with fallacies, inconsistencies and contradictions, and - in my opinion - it takes a greater 'leap of faith' to accept it in its entirety, than it does to accept the Judeo Christian Bible wholly literally.

I do not mind humour - even when directed at me or my faith - but there is a vast difference between gentle fun and 'herd instinct' mockery and ridicule from multiple people.

I would love to write a comprehensive post on the very many logical reasons behind my decision to become a (non-orthodox) Christian, but I just know that instead of rational debate and discussion, it would descend into the usual melee.

Anyway, in my opinion, 'The Truth' is correct in a lot of his complaints, though I agree that he can sometimes be perceived as being a tad extreme in some of his assertions, but perhaps that may be because he has become 'conditioned' by constantly being met with extremism from those who he has previously debated with.

Incidentally L.T. and picking up on another post of yours; Barack Obama is not an atheist - he is a devout Muslim.

[Northern Monkey]

Imo,They are all as true as each other......

[Northern Monkey]

I've often joked on that in hundreds of years time religion will be looked on by the peoples of the day as a kind of prevailing mass phobia brought on by ignorance and fear , due to lack of understanding of their place and position in the Universe.

There will be religious museums where the history of religion can be shown, and the peoples of the day will look back in slight horror at all the death and destruction this irrational phobia caused for centuries until slowly people evolved become more connected and enlightened and realised they did not need to cling to strange beliefs in invisible people living in the clouds.

I wonder how far away that day actually is.I also think this will be the case.
The religions of today will be looked back upon as we look on the religions of ancient Egypt and Greece and Rome.

[user104658]

was kinda hoping for a bit more comment than a one line quip and a shocked emoticon...????

how long do you think religion will survive.....

My emoticons represented a thousand words! The shocked emoticon was to represent my fear for your safety after stating such things. The latter emoticon, because I dream of the world that you imagine in that post. My problem isn't with religion, or the religious, you see... it's more what the entire concept represents. People who are fearful and want to be "told" and "comforted" rather than to think and wonder and just be amazed by the Universe and all of its mystery. And a world where people need a reason, or bribery (heaven) or blackmail (hell) or an instruction manual to be good and moral people instead of just being good and moral people because they want to be and because it is right and fair.

I dream of a world where people don't need a book or preachers or anything other than their own philosophies and imaginations to be good, and to be inspired.


Sadly, I don't think there will ever be a day where that happens entirely. I think mass religion will be around for a long time to come - although I guess maybe not in terms of the entirity of human history. Maybe 500 years? However, I think for as long as there are humans, there will be pockets of religion. Most likely viewed by most as strange cultists. Some people seem to need (completely) that direction and instruction, those predefined safety nets to fall back on. People offering "answers", eternal life and salvation will always be able to find someone to follow them. Because the Universe is too impossibly complex and multi-layered for us humans to ever know or understand... and some people are just not ok with that uncertainty. They want to know, they want an answer, they want "it's God".

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol Obama is not a Muslim

He is a closeted atheist if anything

[user104658]

He is a closeted atheist if anything

The majority of World Leaders are / have been for centuries, in my opinion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The majority of World Leaders are / have been for centuries, in my opinion.

Agree with that

[kirklancaster]

Lol Obama is not a Muslim

He is a closeted atheist if anything

He is Muslim by birth, upbringing, and belief. There is no doubt there.

[Nedusa]

My emoticons represented a thousand words! The shocked emoticon was to represent my fear for your safety after stating such things. The latter emoticon, because I dream of the world that you imagine in that post. My problem isn't with religion, or the religious, you see... it's more what the entire concept represents. People who are fearful and want to be "told" and "comforted" rather than to think and wonder and just be amazed by the Universe and all of its mystery. And a world where people need a reason, or bribery (heaven) or blackmail (hell) or an instruction manual to be good and moral people instead of just being good and moral people because they want to be and because it is right and fair.

I dream of a world where people don't need a book or preachers or anything other than their own philosophies and imaginations to be good, and to be inspired.


Sadly, I don't think there will ever be a day where that happens entirely. I think mass religion will be around for a long time to come - although I guess maybe not in terms of the entirity of human history. Maybe 500 years? However, I think for as long as there are humans, there will be pockets of religion. Most likely viewed by most as strange cultists. Some people seem to need (completely) that direction and instruction, those predefined safety nets to fall back on. People offering "answers", eternal life and salvation will always be able to find someone to follow them. Because the Universe is too impossibly complex and multi-layered for us humans to ever know or understand... and some people are just not ok with that uncertainty. They want to know, they want an answer, they want "it's God".

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

[Nedusa]

My emoticons represented a thousand words! The shocked emoticon was to represent my fear for your safety after stating such things. The latter emoticon, because I dream of the world that you imagine in that post. My problem isn't with religion, or the religious, you see... it's more what the entire concept represents. People who are fearful and want to be "told" and "comforted" rather than to think and wonder and just be amazed by the Universe and all of its mystery. And a world where people need a reason, or bribery (heaven) or blackmail (hell) or an instruction manual to be good and moral people instead of just being good and moral people because they want to be and because it is right and fair.

I dream of a world where people don't need a book or preachers or anything other than their own philosophies and imaginations to be good, and to be inspired.


Sadly, I don't think there will ever be a day where that happens entirely. I think mass religion will be around for a long time to come - although I guess maybe not in terms of the entirity of human history. Maybe 500 years? However, I think for as long as there are humans, there will be pockets of religion. Most likely viewed by most as strange cultists. Some people seem to need (completely) that direction and instruction, those predefined safety nets to fall back on. People offering "answers", eternal life and salvation will always be able to find someone to follow them. Because the Universe is too impossibly complex and multi-layered for us humans to ever know or understand... and some people are just not ok with that uncertainty. They want to know, they want an answer, they want "it's God".

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

[user104658]

He is Muslim by birth, upbringing, and belief. There is no doubt there.
I don't know kirk, you can prove the first two claims and even state that he is by tradition and has a respect, or even bias, for Muslim culture using external evidence. I'm not saying I believe it, but it's valid to be able to claim to prove it. However, you can't state so certainly that he is "by belief", not unless the man outright makes such a statement. No one can know what his true beliefs are but the man himself. As LT says, he may well not truly believe in any of it (Islam, Christianity or any God at all), no matter what he has said or done outwardly.

[the truth]

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

AGAIN YOU MAKE THE CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE OF LABELLING ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME...many people who are Christian for example are also scientists , in fact the majority of great scientists were religious...theyre totally separate subjects and they CAN co exist....many people believe in the symbolic allegorical meaning of religious texts, in particular Christians, you have all sorts of varieties such as agnostics too. Your post is patroninising twadlle, no offence

[Crimson Dynamo]

AGAIN YOU MAKE THE CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE OF LABELLING ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME...many people who are Christian for example are also scientists , in fact the majority of great scientists were religious...theyre totally separate subjects and they CAN co exist....many people believe in the symbolic allegorical meaning of religious texts, in particular Christians, you have all sorts of varieties such as agnostics too. Your post is patroninising twadlle, no offence

Not that old line again truth

you are confusing the fact that most people were religious (or said they were) in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th century

it was those great scientists who effectively killed religion in the 20th century

If you have the names of eminent 21st century scientists who are religionists then post them

[Livia]

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

These issues you have... do you think they could be because you are looking at faith through atheist eyes and thereby filling in the gaps you don't understand?

I don't think religion needs to be transformed - apart from reigning in extremists and other newsworthy miscreants. And if it does need transformation of any kind, it doesn't need to be transformed by people with no faith.

[Livia]

Not that old line again truth

you are confusing the fact that most people were religious (or said they were) in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th century

it was those great scientists who effectively killed religion in the 20th century

If you have the names of eminent 21st century scientists who are religionists then post them

My cousin the physicist. I'm not posting his name... but he's a religious scientist and he's not alone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

My cousin the physicist. I'm not posting his name... but he's a religious scientist and he's not alone.

Not alone but they wont make an effective gang if it kicked off

[kirklancaster]

I don't know kirk, you can prove the first two claims and even state that he is by tradition and has a respect, or even bias, for Muslim culture using external evidence. I'm not saying I believe it, but it's valid to be able to claim to prove it. However, you can't state so certainly that he is "by belief", not unless the man outright makes such a statement. No one can know what his true beliefs are but the man himself. As LT says, he may well not truly believe in any of it (Islam, Christianity or any God at all), no matter what he has said or done outwardly.

Then we cannot know anyone. Obama has provided a wealth of evidence of where his beliefs are, from deliberate statements in support of Allah and the Quran, to 'Freudian' slips during interviews. This, in addition to the facts about his his birth, parents, upbringing, registration at two schools, documentary, photographic and video evidence, the testimony of those who know him, and some of the strange military decisions he has been responsible for concerning US initiatives in the war against IS, shape my conclusion T.S.

Obviously, others may disagree.

[Nedusa]

AGAIN YOU MAKE THE CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE OF LABELLING ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME...many people who are Christian for example are also scientists , in fact the majority of great scientists were religious...theyre totally separate subjects and they CAN co exist....many people believe in the symbolic allegorical meaning of religious texts, in particular Christians, you have all sorts of varieties such as agnostics too. Your post is patroninising twadlle, no offence

As patronising posts go.........I'd have to go a long long way to even get close to some of rabid rants you engage in.

Still everyone's entitled to their view.

[Livia]

Not alone but they wont make an effective gang if it kicked off

People like my cousin don't fight.

Or date.

[Redway]

None. (In my opinion.)

[kirklancaster]

No, no... it's in the Torah.

Moses proposes all Jews shall have big noses.
Except for Aaron, he'll have a square 'un.

Removed by Kirk

[user104658]

"Noses and The Yearning Bush"

Sounds like Jewish porn...

[kirklancaster]

Sounds like Jewish porn...

:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

Sounds like Jewish porn...:laugh::joker: