UKIP expelled Rozanne Duncan after she used N***o word in BBC Docu

[arista]

[A councillor expelled by UKIP after saying
she had a problem with "negroes" has insisted
she is not racist and did not regret making
the comments.
Rozanne Duncan, who was a prominent
member of UKIP in the Thanet South seat
where Nigel Farage is running for Parliament,
was filmed by the BBC saying she
disliked "negroid features".
The same documentary also featured
the local UKIP chairman Martyn Heale
attempting to draw a line under
his past membership of the far-right National Front,
by saying: "I was never a member of the Gestapo".
UKIP expelled Ms Duncan in December as
soon as the party hierarchy became
aware of the remarks, but the comments
that led to the decision are revealed in
full for the first time in the
fly-on-the-wall documentary Meet the Ukippers.]


http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/national/11809829.I_m_no_racist__says_ex_Ukip_member/

http://www.courier.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/275787/Article/images/18938764/4835174-large.jpg

[Livia]

I can't imagine the selection process UKIP have to choose their candidates. I suspect they'll just take anyone who wants to represent them.

[arista]

I can't imagine the selection process UKIP have to choose their candidates. I suspect they'll just take anyone who wants to represent them.


That Lady says she has done nothing wrong
she should have been in the CH5HD Celeb Big Brother

http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/v1/unsecured/media/4221396001/201502/2669/4221396001_4074293208001_ukipper.jpg?pubId=4221396 001
BBC2HD 10PM tonight

[Livia]

The fact that she thinks she's done nothing wrong shows what a poor choice she was to stand for public office.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:clap1: Well done to Ukip once again getting rid of racists

a party of action

[JoshBB]

:clap1: Well done to Ukip once again getting rid of racists

a party of action

Yes, but isn't it weird how many racists UKIP are attracting? There's almost one removed every week - and nowhere near as many from the other parties (except maybe the BNP but they would never remove them so.. :smug:)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, but isn't it weird how many racists UKIP are attracting? There's almost one removed every week - and nowhere near as many from the other parties (except maybe the BNP but they would never remove them so.. :smug:)

Hardly, its just that it makes the news and dont forget Ukip is gaining so many more people and supporters unlike the others.

[JoshBB]

Hardly, its just that it makes the news and dont forget Ukip is gaining so many more people and supporters unlike the others.

The greens have had a surge in support too.. but there haven't been any people removed for racism.

[Kizzy]

Hardly, its just that it makes the news and dont forget Ukip is gaining so many more people and supporters unlike the others.

It's one thing having racist supporters but racist representatives?.....

Of course that would make the news for any party, but there's only dogmatic UKIP spokespeople that are bombastic enough to state their bigoted view in such a matter of fact way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The greens have had a surge in support too.. but there haven't been any people removed for racism.

hardly comparable

[Kizzy]

hardly comparable

Why not?

[Livia]

The greens have had a surge in support too.. but there haven't been any people removed for racism.

The Greens have had a surge in support from mainly young people who don't really know what we'd be letting ourselves in for in the Greens get in. Take some time to read about how they've run Brighton. They're a mess. And while some of their ideas are great, most of them are expensive and unworkable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Greens have had a surge in support from mainly young people who don't really know what we'd be letting ourselves in for in the Greens get in. Take some time to read about how they've run Brighton. They're a mess. And while some of their ideas are great, most of them are expensive and unworkable.

Jeremy Vine did a phone in about the Greens in Brighton, it was like a war zone with every call negative and callers really furious :shocked:

[Crimson Dynamo]

and then the performance of the Australian bint on Andrew Neill Daily Politics?

well. I ask you

[Livia]

Jeremy Vine did a phone in about the Greens in Brighton, it was like a war zone with every call negative and callers really furious :shocked:

The Greens have made themselves look ridiculous in Brighton. I'm frankly shocked that they're not laughed out the door when it comes to political programmes. I really hope they get to take part in the debates.

[Kizzy]

Yes but they're not racist are they?...

[billy123]

The Programme was pure comedy. What a Shambles.
Even the UKIP chairman for Thannet South where Farage is running is an ex National Front member.
The UKIP Councillor Janice Atkinson who referred to another Thai UKIP candidate as a Ting Tong was just disgusting. (She still works for UKIP but the Lady who she refferred to by that name has quit the party)

It would be funny if these people werent actually dangerous.

The Frank gallagher lookalike who wanted to be a councillor his interview was:
Why do you want to be a UKIP councillor? "Because i want to give something back and give it a go and because im cheeky"
Right your in!!

The scariest part of all is that this is the **** that spews out of their mouth when they know the cameras are rolling. Imagine what they are like behind closed doors.

warning the following video contains two racist loonykippers (one of which still represents them)
WErexf0vPDc#t=37jwA681CM7QE

[Kizzy]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I agree!

[Nedusa]

I love the way some people on this Forum revel in bashing UKIP. They are not alone though as the Political establishment are in the middle of a major campaign to discredit UKIP using any and all means at their disposal.

From outright condemnation of the party saying they are the modern day equivalent of the NF, that they are right wing and fascist. to ridiculing them through satire or poking fun at their members. the plan, however it is achieved it is to try and change public opinion and make people fearful from voting for UKIP or being associated with it in any way.

People on this Forum also buy into this mood and believe the nonsense spouted and post humerous or scathing posts about how UKIP are so right wing so hateful of foreigners so fascist....

But the election is fast approaching and the establishment is worried..... very worried as their cosy little plan to sell this Country down the river has been called out for everyone to see and folks people are watching and thinking and no amount of this smear campaign bull**** will make me or millions (hopefully) of people change their view of UKIP and that change is desparately needed and UKIP offer a way to start that change.

Just a small voice of protest , a line in sand where ALL peoples that currently live here in the UK are saying no to uncontrolled immigration, No to Europe and yes to real political representation by our elected leaders to do our bidding not just follow their own agenda or the agenda of big business and other vested interests.

So yes, carry on with all the ridiculous smearing, stupid TV programmes, personal attacks on it's members, it matters not because on election day I together with vast numbers of traditional Lab/Con/Lib voters will say..... enough of the failed status quo and register one of the biggest slaps in the face to the Political gentry of this Country in generations.

And not before time.

[Livia]

I just think they have to select their candidates a little more carefully.

[Nedusa]

Yes........a little more vetting wouldn't be a bad thing but still.....

[GiRTh]

I just think they have to select their candidates a little more carefully.Well yeah but what do they have to choose from? There has been one incident after another so I've no idea how their supporters can seriously talk of a smear campaign. Ukip are doing a great job losing votes by themselves. The quality of the people they want to put in office a joke.

[Livia]

Well yeah but what do they have to choose from? There has been one incident after another so I've no idea how their supporters can seriously talk of a smear campaign. Ukip are doing a great job losing votes by themselves. The quality of the people they want to put in office a joke.

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, I've never worked for UKIP... but the selection process for councillors, MEPs and MPs is the same as a job interview. You have to choose the best, most qualified candidate from a set of applicants. Sadly, fewer and fewer people are opting to stand and so the pool they're fishing from has got smaller and smaller. It gets to the point where you have to take anyone willing to stand in that area. UKIP being a small and virtually untested party suffer more than most when it comes to attracting suitable candidates.

Nice to see you back...I expect it feels positively arctic in comparison.

[Kizzy]

I love the way some people on this Forum revel in bashing UKIP. They are not alone though as the Political establishment are in the middle of a major campaign to discredit UKIP using any and all means at their disposal.

From outright condemnation of the party saying they are the modern day equivalent of the NF, that they are right wing and fascist. to ridiculing them through satire or poking fun at their members. the plan, however it is achieved it is to try and change public opinion and make people fearful from voting for UKIP or being associated with it in any way.

People on this Forum also buy into this mood and believe the nonsense spouted and post humerous or scathing posts about how UKIP are so right wing so hateful of foreigners so fascist....

But the election is fast approaching and the establishment is worried..... very worried as their cosy little plan to sell this Country down the river has been called out for everyone to see and folks people are watching and thinking and no amount of this smear campaign bull**** will make me or millions (hopefully) of people change their view of UKIP and that change is desparately needed and UKIP offer a way to start that change.

Just a small voice of protest , a line in sand where ALL peoples that currently live here in the UK are saying no to uncontrolled immigration, No to Europe and yes to real political representation by our elected leaders to do our bidding not just follow their own agenda or the agenda of big business and other vested interests.

So yes, carry on with all the ridiculous smearing, stupid TV programmes, personal attacks on it's members, it matters not because on election day I together with vast numbers of traditional Lab/Con/Lib voters will say..... enough of the failed status quo and register one of the biggest slaps in the face to the Political gentry of this Country in generations.

And not before time.

In the lead up to an election when a representative of a party says ' I'm not racist but I don't like Negros' then that's not conducive to a positive reflection is it?

[GiRTh]

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, I've never worked for UKIP... but the selection process for councillors, MEPs and MPs is the same as a job interview. You have to choose the best, most qualified candidate from a set of applicants. Sadly, fewer and fewer people are opting to stand and so the pool they're fishing from has got smaller and smaller. It gets to the point where you have to take anyone willing to stand in that area. UKIP being a small and virtually untested party suffer more than most when it comes to attracting suitable candidates.

Nice to see you back...I expect it feels positively arctic in comparison.I've caught a cold already. LOL

Surely it cant be too hard for Ukip to find suitable candidates before they tarnish their reputation all by them selves. The quality of their candidates is seriously undermining this campaign and will possibly affect future campaigns. .

[Livia]

I've caught a cold already. LOL

Surely it cant be too hard for Ukip to find suitable candidates before they tarnish their reputation all by them selves. The quality of their candidates is seriously undermining this campaign and will possibly affect future campaigns. .

It's hard to tell at selection interviews. It's just like job interviews... you get people who promise everything and deliver nothing, you get people who are brilliant but don't handle interviews well... And of course, UKIP don't have an across the board appeal.

So... you went all the way to the Caribbean and all you brought back was a cold.

[GiRTh]

She said there was "absolutely no way I'm a racist" but added: "Th e only people I do have problems with are negroes. And I don't know why.

"I don't know whether there is something in my psyche or whether it's karma from a previous life or whether something happened to me as a very, very young person and I've drawn a veil over it - because that sometimes happens, doesn't it?

"But I really do have a problem with people with negroid features."

She added: "I used to say to my daughter, by way of some sort of justification, you need to remember that I was born in the late 40s, early 50s when, especially down in Thanet, there weren't any and I wasn't brought up with them. Now that's no justification at all, it doesn't answer the question 'why is she like that with them and not anybody else'."

I''ve only just read the article. wow. This person is in no way fit for public office and if its all Ukip can attract then lets dismiss them as the joke they really are.

Is it me or is she just about admitting she is racist. No excuses the party needs to look at its image if this is the best they can do.

[Livia]

The whole system needs shaking up. Some of the councillors I've worked with in the past have been a bloody liability... Insulated and totally out of touch - and that's just their good points.

[GiRTh]

It's hard to tell at selection interviews. It's just like job interviews... you get people who promise everything and deliver nothing, you get people who are brilliant but don't handle interviews well... And of course, UKIP don't have an across the board appeal.

So... you went all the way to the Caribbean and all you brought back was a cold.
The trip was great even if all I've got to show for it is this cold. LOL

[kirklancaster]

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, I've never worked for UKIP... but the selection process for councillors, MEPs and MPs is the same as a job interview. You have to choose the best, most qualified candidate from a set of applicants. Sadly, fewer and fewer people are opting to stand and so the pool they're fishing from has got smaller and smaller. It gets to the point where you have to take anyone willing to stand in that area. UKIP being a small and virtually untested party suffer more than most when it comes to attracting suitable candidates.

Nice to see you back...I expect it feels positively arctic in comparison.

That's my thoughts exactly. It's a classic 'Catch 22'; a lot of people dare not approach to stand as a candidate for UKIP because of it's perceived 'racist' reputation - hell most people who do truly agree with most of UKIP's policies daren't even say so out loud for the same reason - so, as you rightly say, low quantity to select from, invariably means low quality of candidate selected.

People may not dare voice their agreement with UKIP, but if they speak instead with their vote in secret, and if Farage does establish his party as a creditable party with time and the racist 'bogeyman' is exorcised, then who can say whether UKIP becomes the number 1. party in UK politics or not?

Only time will tell.

I don't really subscribe to 'Better The Devil You Know' - not when each successive head Devils keeps promising to morph into Saints 'This Time', only to still boast horns, tails, and trident.

[kirklancaster]

I love the way some people on this Forum revel in bashing UKIP. They are not alone though as the Political establishment are in the middle of a major campaign to discredit UKIP using any and all means at their disposal.

From outright condemnation of the party saying they are the modern day equivalent of the NF, that they are right wing and fascist. to ridiculing them through satire or poking fun at their members. the plan, however it is achieved it is to try and change public opinion and make people fearful from voting for UKIP or being associated with it in any way.

People on this Forum also buy into this mood and believe the nonsense spouted and post humerous or scathing posts about how UKIP are so right wing so hateful of foreigners so fascist....

But the election is fast approaching and the establishment is worried..... very worried as their cosy little plan to sell this Country down the river has been called out for everyone to see and folks people are watching and thinking and no amount of this smear campaign bull**** will make me or millions (hopefully) of people change their view of UKIP and that change is desparately needed and UKIP offer a way to start that change.

Just a small voice of protest , a line in sand where ALL peoples that currently live here in the UK are saying no to uncontrolled immigration, No to Europe and yes to real political representation by our elected leaders to do our bidding not just follow their own agenda or the agenda of big business and other vested interests.

So yes, carry on with all the ridiculous smearing, stupid TV programmes, personal attacks on it's members, it matters not because on election day I together with vast numbers of traditional Lab/Con/Lib voters will say..... enough of the failed status quo and register one of the biggest slaps in the face to the Political gentry of this Country in generations.

And not before time.

A good post Nedusa, and I agree with it.

[smudgie]

The woman is a bloody moron.

[DemolitionRed]

Of course the Conservatives are worried about votes going to UKIP because if you vote UKIP the chances of Ed Miliband getting in goes up tenfold.

UKIP is amateurish and unfinished. Every time I see Farage smirking at the camera with a big fat cigar in his gob and a pint in his hand he reminds me of that Tim...nice but dim bloke.

[kirklancaster]

The woman is a bloody moron.

:laugh: Totally agree Smudgie.

[kirklancaster]

Of course the Conservatives are worried about votes going to UKIP because if you vote UKIP the chances of Ed Miliband getting in goes up tenfold.

UKIP is amateurish and unfinished. Every time I see Farage smirking at the camera with a big fat cigar in his gob and a pint in his hand he reminds me of that Tim...nice but dim bloke.

Fair comment, but I think the psychology behind the cigar and pint is that UKIP embraces both Tory and Labour traditional values and is the party to vote for if you're a voter who's disenchanted with either.

I don't think old Nigel is as thick as some people think.

[billy123]

This summed it up pretty well i thought.

566187951420612608

[GiRTh]

I love the way some people on this Forum revel in bashing UKIP. They are not alone though as the Political establishment are in the middle of a major campaign to discredit UKIP using any and all means at their disposal.

From outright condemnation of the party saying they are the modern day equivalent of the NF, that they are right wing and fascist. to ridiculing them through satire or poking fun at their members. the plan, however it is achieved it is to try and change public opinion and make people fearful from voting for UKIP or being associated with it in any way.

People on this Forum also buy into this mood and believe the nonsense spouted and post humerous or scathing posts about how UKIP are so right wing so hateful of foreigners so fascist....

But the election is fast approaching and the establishment is worried..... very worried as their cosy little plan to sell this Country down the river has been called out for everyone to see and folks people are watching and thinking and no amount of this smear campaign bull**** will make me or millions (hopefully) of people change their view of UKIP and that change is desparately needed and UKIP offer a way to start that change.

Just a small voice of protest , a line in sand where ALL peoples that currently live here in the UK are saying no to uncontrolled immigration, No to Europe and yes to real political representation by our elected leaders to do our bidding not just follow their own agenda or the agenda of big business and other vested interests.

So yes, carry on with all the ridiculous smearing, stupid TV programmes, personal attacks on it's members, it matters not because on election day I together with vast numbers of traditional Lab/Con/Lib voters will say..... enough of the failed status quo and register one of the biggest slaps in the face to the Political gentry of this Country in generations.

And not before time.At the rate they are going you may be voting by yourself. Can I ask why are you so desperate to administer this slap when this is the kind of person your party want to put in office? Do you think this person is fit for office and would you vote for them? If you think this person is fit for office then why do you think the country would be better with more people like this in office? I anticipate your reply.

The smearing is not ridiculous. It barely needed your party representatives are a joke.

[Vicky.]

She said there was "absolutely no way I'm a racist" but added: "Th e only people I do have problems with are negroes. And I don't know why.


lol...

[GiRTh]

She said there was "absolutely no way I'm a racist" but added: "Th e only people I do have problems with are negroes. And I don't know why.


lol...ITs almost laughable isnt it? The way she expresses it would have probably have got a laugh out of me if she's said it within ear shot. How the hell does she get to represent this party and why do Ukip supporters seriously think this country would be better with people like this is power. She's either an out and out racist or seriously deluded and either is not good for her credentials to be in a position of power

[DemolitionRed]

Fair comment, but I think the psychology behind the cigar and pint is that UKIP embraces both Tory and Labour traditional values and is the party to vote for if you're a voter who's disenchanted with either.

I don't think old Nigel is as thick as some people think.

He would like us all to believe he’s 'bon viveu' but I remain unconvinced. Don’t be fooled by his nature because he is not the man you think he is.

I lost all respect for Farage when when he happily jumped into the pockets of extreme far right parties in Poland and Brussels as well as chairing the xenophobic and right-wing Italian Northern League. The founder of this league is Umberto Bossi who once called for all illegal immigrants to be shot. He’s also firm friends with 'The True Finns' who got in trouble for suggesting all foreigners wear identity armbands. He’s not only mates with this lot, he’s been supported and funded by them.

The man has no more interest in the working class or aspiring middle classes than the conservatives but he does understand that by focusing his campaign on immigrant blame and exiting the EU instead of the Westminster elite and corporations that have got richer on tax payers money, he ensured himself plenty of votes, especially from the downtrodden north. It’s a left wing catch with a right wing hook.

Most of us know that the Conservatives are selling the NHS off. Farage stepped in and claimed he would ring fence the NHS from privatization, so why can I find document after document claiming Farage fully supports the selling off of the NHS to private corporate organizations? The TTIP are keen to sell us the American version of medicine and Farage, who once worked for these city firms is a keen supporter. Our NHS is not safe with the Conservatives and it certainly isn’t safe with UKIP.

Whilst I agree that Europe is run by big banks and bureaucrats; how will pulling out of the EU help maintain our peace and stability? With all this present unrest in the world, is now a good time to pull ourselves away from our 27 European neighbours? Can we really afford to become a remote vulnerable island?

The man is an elitist who desperately tries to play down his poshness. To me at least he appears ridiculous; its like watching a badly made pantomime.

[GiRTh]

He would like us all to believe he’s 'bon viveu' but I remain unconvinced. Don’t be fooled by his nature because he is not the man you think he is.

I lost all respect for Farage when when he happily jumped into the pockets of extreme far right parties in Poland and Brussels as well as chairing the xenophobic and right-wing Italian Northern League. The founder of this league is Umberto Bossi who once called for all illegal immigrants to be shot. He’s also firm friends with 'The True Finns' who got in trouble for suggesting all foreigners wear identity armbands. He’s not only mates with this lot, he’s been supported and funded by them.

The man has no more interest in the working class or aspiring middle classes than the conservatives but he does understand that by focusing his campaign on immigrant blame and exiting the EU instead of the Westminster elite and corporations that have got richer on tax payers money, he ensured himself plenty of votes, especially from the downtrodden north. It’s a left wing catch with a right wing hook.

Most of us know that the Conservatives are selling the NHS off. Farage stepped in and claimed he would ring fence the NHS from privatization, so why can I find document after document claiming Farage fully supports the selling off of the NHS to private corporate organizations? The TTIP are keen to sell us the American version of medicine and Farage, who once worked for these city firms is a keen supporter. Our NHS is not safe with the Conservatives and it certainly isn’t safe with UKIP.

Whilst I agree that Europe is run by big banks and bureaucrats; how will pulling out of the EU help maintain our peace and stability? With all this present unrest in the world, is now a good time to pull ourselves away from our 27 European neighbours? Can we really afford to become a remote vulnerable island?

The man is an elitist who desperately tries to play down his poshness. To me at least he appears ridiculous; its like watching a badly made pantomime.:clap1:

[joeysteele]

Yes, but isn't it weird how many racists UKIP are attracting? There's almost one removed every week - and nowhere near as many from the other parties (except maybe the BNP but they would never remove them so.. :smug:)

You always make good points JoshBB.
I actually don't think the basis of UKIP is racist,for me it is more a lack of tolerance for want of a better description.
This Councillor virtually echoed Nigel Farage when he said he was on the tube or a train and people were talking in a foreign language, which made him feel uncomfortable.

This woman said, she heard people calling to each other in the street in their own language and that made her feel uncomfortable.
More and more do seem to hold that view too as you point out.

It is that intolerance that in the end helps divide against and fuel anger against those not of British origin.
While not racist,I would say, it is a strong evidence of at the very least unacceptable intolerance, and that has to be wrong in British politics too.

I agree with you, it is seeming a good number are building up as to being dropped as candidates or being told to quiet down as to their comments and that is a worrying situation.

Even in this documentary, it was said by the UKIP agent and press officer that those in UKIP have to hold back on their comments and that nothing has to be filmed and made known until the message was more acceptable.
Well that means we are 'not' getting the real views of UKIP candidates in that case and it also means in effect they are not being upfront with the voters.

The press officer said this Councillor had been told before to keep quiet and hold her views to herself as to this.
In a party supposedly advocating free speech,that comes across as very odd indeed and to me as a voter, (although no way a UKIP one),that makes me feel very uncomfortable with them indeed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Have a look at the Ukip manifesto when all are out, see if you can find racist policies

If you cant then i would hold my tongue

Yes every party has renegades

take a look at Sir Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw today

perhaps a bit worse than being mildly racist in todays eyes?

Its easy to say "oooh UKIP are racists", indeed highlighting problems is the pasttime of fools - providing solutions to problems wont get many posts

too hard

[GiRTh]

Have a look at the Ukip manifesto when all are out, see if you can find racist policies

If you cant then i would hold my tongue

Yes every party has renegades

take a look at Sir Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw today

perhaps a bit worse than being mildly racist in todays eyes?

Its easy to say "oooh UKIP are racists", indeed highlighting problems is the pasttime of fools - providing solutions to problems wont get many posts

too hardHardly. Her comments are as close as I've seen for a while to true racist. Its s all there. She starts with a denial that she's racist but she just cant understand why she doesn't like black people. I find her comments truly abhorrent and not the misunderstood comments or old fashioned comments I've seen described as racist.

She admits she has a problem with black people and cannot point to one thing to justify it - if indeed it could ever be justified. How is that not racist or how is that only mild?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hardly. Her comments are as close as I've seen for a while to true racist. Its s all there. She starts with a denial that she's racist but she just cant understand why she doesn't like black people. I find her comments truly abhorrent and not the misunderstood comments or old fashioned comments I've seen described as racist.

She admits she has a problem with black people and cannot point to one thing to justify it - if indeed it could ever be justified. How is that not racist or how is that only mild?

and the the Mps expenses scandal?

[GiRTh]

and the the Mps expenses scandal?How is that relevant?

[Crimson Dynamo]

How is that relevant?


It is just contrast

racism is bad natch but its not the only show in town

[GiRTh]

It is just contrast

racism is bad natch but its not the only show in townPlease dont try and deflect. How are this woman's comments not racist?

[joeysteele]

Hardly. Her comments are as close as I've seen for a while to true racist. Its s all there. She starts with a denial that she's racist but she just cant understand why she doesn't like black people. I find her comments truly abhorrent and not the misunderstood comments or old fashioned comments I've seen described as racist.

She admits she has a problem with black people and cannot point to one thing to justify it - if indeed it could ever be justified. How is that not racist or how is that only mild?

Excellent points, there is no way to argue against those facts Girth, well said.

[Crimson Dynamo]

She has now nothing to do with ukip

Time to close the thread

:idc:

[joeysteele]

She was a UKIP councillor,supported by the UKIP party as a whole, if this had not come out, she would alsos till now be a UKIP councillor.

It does beg the question, how many more but now after this will the electorate be told of any more,or will they be kept 'muzzled' for want of a better description as to this issue,until after the general election now.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its begs your question joey

Meanwhile back in the real world. ..

[Kizzy]

Back in the real world we want our politicians unprejudiced... it's a big ask from UKIP it seems.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol

And what party are you thinking of?

[Kizzy]

Lol

And what party are you thinking of?

Not the same one your..you're...you are

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not the same one your..you're...you are

:joker:

[Nedusa]

Please dont try and deflect. How are this woman's comments not racist?

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

[kirklancaster]

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

Fair comment Nedusa.

I think the fact that these 'cranks' are repeatedly being 'discovered' within UKIP has more to do with the fact that many intelligent people who actually identify with UKIP and its policies, dare not 'come out of the closet' and state as much (rather like not agreeing with extreme left-wing views on here :hehe:) - let alone apply to become a candidate.

This dearth of applicants from which they are forced to try to select 'quality' candidates from, coupled with the fact that 'racists' gravitate towards the party anyway because of perceived intrinsic racism - largely 'media' caused - explains the frequency with which low brow UKIP representatives commit racist faux pas after racist faux pas.

I think that the spotlight should not fall solely on these morons because of the above, but also on the very real fact that Farage has both barred some known racist applicants from even becoming members, and is also continually purging members who prove to be so.

I do not believe that a party with genuine racist policies will ever attain power in the UK if such policies are blatant from the onset, and I do not believe that any party with genuine racist policies will stay in power in the UK for more than one term, if such policies are covert prior to election then manifest themselves slowly once in power.

Perhaps Farage is to be applauded not demonised because he appears to be the only political party leader actually lifting the party carpet to clear out all the hidden dirt - unlike the other leaders who seem content to hold with long practiced traditions in not only hiding the fact there is indeed a large pile of accumulated dirt under their party carpets, but in also sweeping more dirt under it.

There are, after all, other crimes and immoral practices which are just as offensive and wrong as racism, and unfortunately, the history of our political parties are a veritable store-house of examples of such practices, as this - not fully extensive - list from Wikipedia attests for those politically impartial members who are really interested in truth and not just anti UKIP propaganda:


1960s

Soviet agent John Vassall working for Minister Tam Galbraith (1962)
Profumo Affair (1963): Secretary of State for War John Profumo had an affair with prostitute Christine Keeler (to whom he had been introduced by pimp and drug-dealer Stephen Ward) who was having an affair with a Soviet spy at the same time.

1970s

Corrupt architect John Poulson and links to Conservative Home Secretary Reginald Maudling, Labour council leader T. Dan Smith and others (1972-4): Maudling resigned, Smith sentenced to imprisonment.

Earl Jellicoe and Lord Lambton sex scandal (1973): Conservatives, junior defence minister Lambton is arrested for using prostitutes and Cabinet minister Jellicoe also confesses.

Labour MP John Stonehouse's faked suicide (1974)
Harold Wilson's Prime Minister's Resignation Honours (known satirically as the "Lavender List") gives honours to a number of wealthy businessmen whose principles were considered antipathetic to those held by the Labour party (May 1976)

Peter Jay's appointment as British Ambassador to the U.S. by his father in law, the then Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan. At the time Jay was a journalist with little diplomatic experience.(1976)

"Rinkagate": Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe was arrested and tried for allegedly paying a hitman to murder his homosexual lover, model Norman Scott, while walking his dog on Exmoor; the hitman only shot the dog, Rinka. Thorpe was forced to resign due to his clandestine gay affairs, but was acquitted of conspiracy to murder.

1980s

Joseph Kagan, Baron Kagan, earlier ennobled by the Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson's notorious Lavender List (1976), was convicted of fraud (1980)
Cecil Parkinson affair with secretary Sara Keays resulting in their child, Flora Keays (1983)

Al Yamamah contract alleged to have been obtained by bribery (1985)
Westland affair (1986): The Defence Secretary, Michael Heseltine resigned from his Cabinet job in a disagreement with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher over the Westland affair. Mr Heseltine walked out of a meeting at Number 10 concerning his views on the future of the Westland helicopter company were being ignored at the time.

Jeffrey Archer and the prostitute allegations (1986), and his subsequent conviction for perjury (2001)

Edwina Currie resigns as a junior Health minister for incorrectly claiming that millions of British eggs were infected with salmonella, stating that "most of [British] egg production" was infected (1988)

"Homes for votes" gerrymandering scandal (1987–1989)

BSE (1989)

1990s

Nicholas Ridley compares the EU to the Third Reich in an interview in The Spectator magazine (1990)

Arms-to-Iraq and the closely connected Iraqi Supergun affair (1990)

David Mellor resignation after press disclosure of his affair with Antonia de Sancha and gratis holiday from a daughter of a PLO official (1992)

Squidgygate, the covert leaking of a bugged phone call between the Princess of Wales and James Hewitt, although the phrase originally referred to the exposure of the Princess's extramarital affair (1992)

Michael Mates gift of watch to Asil Nadir (1993)

Monklandsgate dominated the Monklands East by-election. It mainly consisted of allegations of sectarian spending discrepancies between Protestant Airdrie and Catholic Coatbridge, fuelled by the fact that all 17 of the ruling Labour group were Roman Catholics. (1994)

Back to Basics, a government policy slogan portrayed by opponents and the press as a morality campaign to compare it with a contemporaneous succession of sex scandals in John Major's government which led to the resignation of Tim Yeo and the Earl of Caithness, among others (1994)

Cash-for-questions affair involving Neil Hamilton, Tim Smith and Mohamed Al-Fayed (1994)

Jonathan Aitken and the hotel bill allegations, and subsequent conviction for perjury after his failed libel action against The Guardian, resulting in Aitken being only the third person to have to resign from the Privy Council in the 20th century. (1995)

Bernie Ecclestone was involved in a political scandal when it transpired he had given the Labour Party a million pound donation - which raised eyebrows when the incoming Labour government changed its policy to allow Formula One to continue being sponsored by tobacco manufacturers. The Labour Party returned the donation when the scandal came to light. (1997)

Double resignation rocks government. Peter Mandelson, Trade and Industry Secretary, resigns after failing to disclose £373,000 loan from Paymaster General Geoffrey Robinson. (1998)

Ron Davies resigns from the cabinet after being robbed by a man he met at Clapham Common and then lying about it (1998)

Jerry Hayes was "outed" as a homosexual by the News of the World, with the headline "TORY MP 2-TIMED WIFE WITH UNDER-AGE GAY LOVER". Hayes had met Young Conservative Paul Stone at the 1991 Conservative conference and that same evening, "committed a lewd act which was in breach of the law at the time". Stone had been 18 at the time, whilst the legal age for homosexual sex in 1991 was 21. He had previously supported Section 28 and other anti-gay legislation. (1997)

2000s

Officegate (2001). Henry McLeish, Labour First Minister of Scotland, failed to refund the House of Commons for income he had received from the sub-let of his constituency office in Glenrothes while still a Westminster MP.
Keith Vaz, Peter Mandelson and the Hinduja brothers. Mandelson forced to resign again due to misleading statements. (2001)

Jo Moore, within an hour of the September 11 attacks, Moore sent an email to the press office of her department suggesting: It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors' expenses? Although prior to the catastrophic collapse of the towers, the phrase "a good day to bury bad news" (not actually used by Moore) has since been used to refer to other instances of attempting to hide one item of news behind a more publicised issue.

In 2002, Edwina Currie revealed that she had had an affair, beginning in 1984, with John Major before he became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. This was criticised more harshly than may otherwise have been the case as Major had frequently pushed his Back To Basics agenda (see above), which was taken by the media as a form of moral absolutism.

The Burrell affair - allegations about the behavior of the British Royal Family and their servants with possible constitutional implications. (2002)

Ron Davies stands down from Welsh assembly following accusations of illicit gay sex. Mr Davies had claimed he had been badger-watching in the area. (2003)

The apparent suicide of Dr. David Kelly and the Hutton Inquiry. On 17 July 2003, Kelly, an employee of the Ministry of Defence, apparently committed suicide after being misquoted by BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan as saying that Tony Blair's Labour government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report into Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. The government was cleared of wrongdoing, while the BBC was strongly criticised by the subsequent inquiry, leading to the resignation of the BBC's chairman and director-general.

In April 2004, Beverly Hughes was forced to resign as minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Counter Terrorism when it was shown that she had been informed of procedural improprieties concerning the granting of visas to certain categories of workers from Eastern Europe. She had earlier told the House of Commons that if she had been aware of such facts she would have done something about it.

In 2005, David McLetchie, leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party is forced to resign after claiming the highest taxi expenses of any MSP. These included personal journeys, journeys related solely with his second job as a solicitor, and Conservative Party business, for example travel to Conservative conferences. Conservative backbench MSP Brian Monteith has the whip withdrawn for briefing against his leader to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper.

Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokesman Mark Oaten resigns after it is revealed by the News of the World that he paid rentboys to perform sexual activities on him.

Tessa Jowell financial allegations (2006). Tessa Jowell, Labour cabinet minister, embroiled in a scandal about a property remortgage allegedly arranged to enable her husband to realise £350,000 from an off-shore hedge fund, money he allegedly received as a gift following testimony he had provided for Silvio Berlusconi in the 1990s.[15] Popularised by the press as "Jowellgate".

In March 2006 it emerged that the Labour party had borrowed millions of pounds in 2005 to help fund their general election campaign. While not illegal, on 15 March the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey stated publicly that he had neither knowledge of or involvement in these loans and had only become aware when he read about it in the newspapers. A story was running at the time that Dr Chai Patel and others had been recommended for Life peerages after lending the Labour party money. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

Cash for Honours (2006). Following revelations about Dr Chai Patel and others who were recommended for peerages after lending the Labour party money, the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey said he had not been involved and did not know the party had secretly borrowed millions of pounds in 2005. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

In November 2007, it emerged that more than £400,000 had been accepted by the Labour Party from one person through a series of third parties, causing the Electoral Commission to seek an explanation.[18] Peter Watt resigned as the General Secretary of the party the day after the story broke and was quoted as saying that he knew about the arrangement but had not appreciated that he had failed to comply with the reporting requirements.[19]
On 24 January 2008, Peter Hain resigned his two cabinet posts (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and Secretary of State for Wales) after the Electoral Commission referred donations to his Deputy Leadership campaign to the police.

Derek Conway (2008). Conservative Party MP found to have reclaimed salaries he had paid to his two sons who had in fact not carried out the work to the extent claimed. Ordered to repay £16,918, suspended from the House of Commons for 10 days and removed from the party whip.

Cash for Influence (2009). Details of covertly recorded discussions with 4 Labour Party peers which their ability to influence legislation and the consultancy fees that they charge (including retainer payments of up to £120,000) were published by The Sunday Times.

United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal (2009), following the disclosure of widespread actual and alleged misuse of the permitted allowances and expenses claimed by Members of Parliament and attempts by MPs and peers to exempt themselves from Freedom of Information legislation.

2010s

The Iris Robinson scandal in which First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson stepped aside for six weeks in January 2010 following revelations of his wife’s involvement in an extramarital affair, her attempted suicide and allegations that he had failed to properly declare details of loans she had procured for her lover to develop a business venture.

The 2010 Cash for Influence Scandal, in which undercover reporters for the Dispatches television series posed as political lobbyists offering to pay Members of Parliament to influence policy.

On 29 May 2010 Chief Secretary to the Treasury David Laws resigned from the Cabinet and was referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards after the Daily Telegraph newspaper published details of Laws claiming around £40,000 in expenses on a second home owned by a secret partner between 2004 and 2009 whilst House of Commons rules have prevented MPs from claiming second home expenses on properties owned by a partner since 2006. By resigning Laws became the shortest serving Minister in modern British political history with less than 18 days service as a Cabinet Minister.

On 14 October 2011 Secretary of State for Defence Liam Fox resigned from the Cabinet after he "mistakenly allowed the distinction between [his] personal interest and [his] government activities to become blurred" over his friendship with Adam Werrity.

Conservative Party 'Cash for Access' scandal, March 2012.
In April 2012 Conservative Party MP and culture secretary Jeremy Hunt came under pressure to resign as a result of his closeness to Rupert Murdoch's media empire and alleged corruption in dealing with Murdoch's bid for News Corporation's takeover of BSkyB.

In October 2012 Andrew Mitchell resigned from his post as Chief Whip following allegations made about his conduct during an altercation with police at Downing Street on 19 September, the incident becoming known as "plebgate".

The 2013 Labour Party Falkirk candidate selection, which began following the announcement that the incumbent MP Eric Joyce was to step down at the 2015 General Election, erupted into a scandal after allegations were made on the significant infiltration of the selection process by the trade union Unite, currently the Labour Party's largest financial backer.

In April 2014 Maria Miller, the Culture Secretary, resigned following pressure relating to the results of an investigation into her past expenses claims.


So is Farage and his UKIP the racist 'Devil in Disguise' which the left wing media are so comprehensively portraying him as?

I for one, cannot judge him on unproven allegation, rumour, and even genuine associations, but I can judge the 'Devils We Know' who are the other political parties, based on very real and irrefutable histories going back over a hundred years.

[GiRTh]

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.Its the weakest defense I've ever heard. I'd respect her more if she admitted her irrational hatred. Her phobia is as clear a case of blatant racism as we will come across for a while.

[GiRTh]

Fair comment Nedusa.

I think the fact that these 'cranks' are repeatedly being 'discovered' within UKIP has more to do with the fact that many intelligent people who actually identify with UKIP and its policies, dare not 'come out of the closet' and state as much (rather like not agreeing with extreme left-wing views on here :hehe:) - let alone apply to become a candidate.

This dearth of applicants from which they are forced to try to select 'quality' candidates from, coupled with the fact that 'racists' gravitate towards the party anyway because of perceived intrinsic racism - largely 'media' caused - explains the frequency with which low brow UKIP representatives commit racist faux pas after racist faux pas.

I think that the spotlight should not fall solely on these morons because of the above, but also on the very real fact that Farage has both barred some known racist applicants from even becoming members, and is also continually purging members who prove to be so.

I do not believe that a party with genuine racist policies will ever attain power in the UK if such policies are blatant from the onset, and I do not believe that any party with genuine racist policies will stay in power in the UK for more than one term, if such policies are covert prior to election then manifest themselves slowly once in power.

Perhaps Farage is to be applauded not demonised because he appears to be the only political party leader actually lifting the party carpet to clear out all the hidden dirt - unlike the other leaders who seem content to hold with long practiced traditions in not only hiding the fact there is indeed a large pile of accumulated dirt under their party carpets, but in also sweeping more dirt under it.

There are, after all, other crimes and immoral practices which are just as offensive and wrong as racism, and unfortunately, the history of our political parties are a veritable store-house of examples of such practices, as this - not fully extensive - list from Wikipedia attests for those politically impartial members who are really interested in truth and not just anti UKIP propaganda:


1960s

Soviet agent John Vassall working for Minister Tam Galbraith (1962)
Profumo Affair (1963): Secretary of State for War John Profumo had an affair with prostitute Christine Keeler (to whom he had been introduced by pimp and drug-dealer Stephen Ward) who was having an affair with a Soviet spy at the same time.

1970s

Corrupt architect John Poulson and links to Conservative Home Secretary Reginald Maudling, Labour council leader T. Dan Smith and others (1972-4): Maudling resigned, Smith sentenced to imprisonment.

Earl Jellicoe and Lord Lambton sex scandal (1973): Conservatives, junior defence minister Lambton is arrested for using prostitutes and Cabinet minister Jellicoe also confesses.

Labour MP John Stonehouse's faked suicide (1974)
Harold Wilson's Prime Minister's Resignation Honours (known satirically as the "Lavender List") gives honours to a number of wealthy businessmen whose principles were considered antipathetic to those held by the Labour party (May 1976)

Peter Jay's appointment as British Ambassador to the U.S. by his father in law, the then Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan. At the time Jay was a journalist with little diplomatic experience.(1976)

"Rinkagate": Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe was arrested and tried for allegedly paying a hitman to murder his homosexual lover, model Norman Scott, while walking his dog on Exmoor; the hitman only shot the dog, Rinka. Thorpe was forced to resign due to his clandestine gay affairs, but was acquitted of conspiracy to murder.

1980s

Joseph Kagan, Baron Kagan, earlier ennobled by the Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson's notorious Lavender List (1976), was convicted of fraud (1980)
Cecil Parkinson affair with secretary Sara Keays resulting in their child, Flora Keays (1983)

Al Yamamah contract alleged to have been obtained by bribery (1985)
Westland affair (1986): The Defence Secretary, Michael Heseltine resigned from his Cabinet job in a disagreement with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher over the Westland affair. Mr Heseltine walked out of a meeting at Number 10 concerning his views on the future of the Westland helicopter company were being ignored at the time.

Jeffrey Archer and the prostitute allegations (1986), and his subsequent conviction for perjury (2001)

Edwina Currie resigns as a junior Health minister for incorrectly claiming that millions of British eggs were infected with salmonella, stating that "most of [British] egg production" was infected (1988)

"Homes for votes" gerrymandering scandal (1987–1989)

BSE (1989)

1990s

Nicholas Ridley compares the EU to the Third Reich in an interview in The Spectator magazine (1990)

Arms-to-Iraq and the closely connected Iraqi Supergun affair (1990)

David Mellor resignation after press disclosure of his affair with Antonia de Sancha and gratis holiday from a daughter of a PLO official (1992)

Squidgygate, the covert leaking of a bugged phone call between the Princess of Wales and James Hewitt, although the phrase originally referred to the exposure of the Princess's extramarital affair (1992)

Michael Mates gift of watch to Asil Nadir (1993)

Monklandsgate dominated the Monklands East by-election. It mainly consisted of allegations of sectarian spending discrepancies between Protestant Airdrie and Catholic Coatbridge, fuelled by the fact that all 17 of the ruling Labour group were Roman Catholics. (1994)

Back to Basics, a government policy slogan portrayed by opponents and the press as a morality campaign to compare it with a contemporaneous succession of sex scandals in John Major's government which led to the resignation of Tim Yeo and the Earl of Caithness, among others (1994)

Cash-for-questions affair involving Neil Hamilton, Tim Smith and Mohamed Al-Fayed (1994)

Jonathan Aitken and the hotel bill allegations, and subsequent conviction for perjury after his failed libel action against The Guardian, resulting in Aitken being only the third person to have to resign from the Privy Council in the 20th century. (1995)

Bernie Ecclestone was involved in a political scandal when it transpired he had given the Labour Party a million pound donation - which raised eyebrows when the incoming Labour government changed its policy to allow Formula One to continue being sponsored by tobacco manufacturers. The Labour Party returned the donation when the scandal came to light. (1997)

Double resignation rocks government. Peter Mandelson, Trade and Industry Secretary, resigns after failing to disclose £373,000 loan from Paymaster General Geoffrey Robinson. (1998)

Ron Davies resigns from the cabinet after being robbed by a man he met at Clapham Common and then lying about it (1998)

Jerry Hayes was "outed" as a homosexual by the News of the World, with the headline "TORY MP 2-TIMED WIFE WITH UNDER-AGE GAY LOVER". Hayes had met Young Conservative Paul Stone at the 1991 Conservative conference and that same evening, "committed a lewd act which was in breach of the law at the time". Stone had been 18 at the time, whilst the legal age for homosexual sex in 1991 was 21. He had previously supported Section 28 and other anti-gay legislation. (1997)

2000s

Officegate (2001). Henry McLeish, Labour First Minister of Scotland, failed to refund the House of Commons for income he had received from the sub-let of his constituency office in Glenrothes while still a Westminster MP.
Keith Vaz, Peter Mandelson and the Hinduja brothers. Mandelson forced to resign again due to misleading statements. (2001)

Jo Moore, within an hour of the September 11 attacks, Moore sent an email to the press office of her department suggesting: It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors' expenses? Although prior to the catastrophic collapse of the towers, the phrase "a good day to bury bad news" (not actually used by Moore) has since been used to refer to other instances of attempting to hide one item of news behind a more publicised issue.

In 2002, Edwina Currie revealed that she had had an affair, beginning in 1984, with John Major before he became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. This was criticised more harshly than may otherwise have been the case as Major had frequently pushed his Back To Basics agenda (see above), which was taken by the media as a form of moral absolutism.

The Burrell affair - allegations about the behavior of the British Royal Family and their servants with possible constitutional implications. (2002)

Ron Davies stands down from Welsh assembly following accusations of illicit gay sex. Mr Davies had claimed he had been badger-watching in the area. (2003)

The apparent suicide of Dr. David Kelly and the Hutton Inquiry. On 17 July 2003, Kelly, an employee of the Ministry of Defence, apparently committed suicide after being misquoted by BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan as saying that Tony Blair's Labour government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report into Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. The government was cleared of wrongdoing, while the BBC was strongly criticised by the subsequent inquiry, leading to the resignation of the BBC's chairman and director-general.

In April 2004, Beverly Hughes was forced to resign as minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Counter Terrorism when it was shown that she had been informed of procedural improprieties concerning the granting of visas to certain categories of workers from Eastern Europe. She had earlier told the House of Commons that if she had been aware of such facts she would have done something about it.

In 2005, David McLetchie, leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party is forced to resign after claiming the highest taxi expenses of any MSP. These included personal journeys, journeys related solely with his second job as a solicitor, and Conservative Party business, for example travel to Conservative conferences. Conservative backbench MSP Brian Monteith has the whip withdrawn for briefing against his leader to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper.

Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokesman Mark Oaten resigns after it is revealed by the News of the World that he paid rentboys to perform sexual activities on him.

Tessa Jowell financial allegations (2006). Tessa Jowell, Labour cabinet minister, embroiled in a scandal about a property remortgage allegedly arranged to enable her husband to realise £350,000 from an off-shore hedge fund, money he allegedly received as a gift following testimony he had provided for Silvio Berlusconi in the 1990s.[15] Popularised by the press as "Jowellgate".

In March 2006 it emerged that the Labour party had borrowed millions of pounds in 2005 to help fund their general election campaign. While not illegal, on 15 March the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey stated publicly that he had neither knowledge of or involvement in these loans and had only become aware when he read about it in the newspapers. A story was running at the time that Dr Chai Patel and others had been recommended for Life peerages after lending the Labour party money. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

Cash for Honours (2006). Following revelations about Dr Chai Patel and others who were recommended for peerages after lending the Labour party money, the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey said he had not been involved and did not know the party had secretly borrowed millions of pounds in 2005. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

In November 2007, it emerged that more than £400,000 had been accepted by the Labour Party from one person through a series of third parties, causing the Electoral Commission to seek an explanation.[18] Peter Watt resigned as the General Secretary of the party the day after the story broke and was quoted as saying that he knew about the arrangement but had not appreciated that he had failed to comply with the reporting requirements.[19]
On 24 January 2008, Peter Hain resigned his two cabinet posts (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and Secretary of State for Wales) after the Electoral Commission referred donations to his Deputy Leadership campaign to the police.

Derek Conway (2008). Conservative Party MP found to have reclaimed salaries he had paid to his two sons who had in fact not carried out the work to the extent claimed. Ordered to repay £16,918, suspended from the House of Commons for 10 days and removed from the party whip.

Cash for Influence (2009). Details of covertly recorded discussions with 4 Labour Party peers which their ability to influence legislation and the consultancy fees that they charge (including retainer payments of up to £120,000) were published by The Sunday Times.

United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal (2009), following the disclosure of widespread actual and alleged misuse of the permitted allowances and expenses claimed by Members of Parliament and attempts by MPs and peers to exempt themselves from Freedom of Information legislation.

2010s

The Iris Robinson scandal in which First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson stepped aside for six weeks in January 2010 following revelations of his wife’s involvement in an extramarital affair, her attempted suicide and allegations that he had failed to properly declare details of loans she had procured for her lover to develop a business venture.

The 2010 Cash for Influence Scandal, in which undercover reporters for the Dispatches television series posed as political lobbyists offering to pay Members of Parliament to influence policy.

On 29 May 2010 Chief Secretary to the Treasury David Laws resigned from the Cabinet and was referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards after the Daily Telegraph newspaper published details of Laws claiming around £40,000 in expenses on a second home owned by a secret partner between 2004 and 2009 whilst House of Commons rules have prevented MPs from claiming second home expenses on properties owned by a partner since 2006. By resigning Laws became the shortest serving Minister in modern British political history with less than 18 days service as a Cabinet Minister.

On 14 October 2011 Secretary of State for Defence Liam Fox resigned from the Cabinet after he "mistakenly allowed the distinction between [his] personal interest and [his] government activities to become blurred" over his friendship with Adam Werrity.

Conservative Party 'Cash for Access' scandal, March 2012.
In April 2012 Conservative Party MP and culture secretary Jeremy Hunt came under pressure to resign as a result of his closeness to Rupert Murdoch's media empire and alleged corruption in dealing with Murdoch's bid for News Corporation's takeover of BSkyB.

In October 2012 Andrew Mitchell resigned from his post as Chief Whip following allegations made about his conduct during an altercation with police at Downing Street on 19 September, the incident becoming known as "plebgate".

The 2013 Labour Party Falkirk candidate selection, which began following the announcement that the incumbent MP Eric Joyce was to step down at the 2015 General Election, erupted into a scandal after allegations were made on the significant infiltration of the selection process by the trade union Unite, currently the Labour Party's largest financial backer.

In April 2014 Maria Miller, the Culture Secretary, resigned following pressure relating to the results of an investigation into her past expenses claims.


So is Farage and his UKIP the racist 'Devil in Disguise' which the left wing media are so comprehensively portraying him as?

I for one, cannot judge him on unproven allegation, rumour, and even genuine associations, but I can judge the 'Devils We Know' who are the other political parties, based on very real and irrefutable histories going back over a hundred years.The spin machine is in full flow. Why dont we stick to the issues and discuss this woman statement and the intent behind it cuz in this case there is clear intent.

[Toy Soldier]

Meh. Maybe she does have an irrational fear / phobia of people with "black features". Phobias are many and varied, and to play devil's advocate, you can't just "decide" not to have a phobia. I wish that I wasn't racist about spiders, I really try, but then I see a spider and lose my **** every time. SO, she can't be "blamed" for her phobia - there's probably someone else who can be blamed for it (i.e. whoever presumably raised her on boogeyman tales about black people).

Howeveeerrr...

1) Should someone with an irrational fear or phobia of an ethnic group seek a career in politics or be accepted as a valid politician in a multi-racial country?

NOPE.


2) Does her choice of political allegiance and party membership speak volumes about UKIP?

Yup yup yup!

She felt like she would "fit in" at UKIP and find like-minded people. IMO, she was 100% right. Do you think for one second that her colleagues didn't know about her "fears" and opinions about black people before it came out in this documentary? It seems highly unlikely. She's been expelled because her views explicitly came out in public and UKIP, currently enjoying a bit of a membership boost, doesn't want to be seen as "extreme". She was not kicked out for holding those views in the first place.

[kirklancaster]

The spin machine is in full flow. Why dont we stick to the issues and discuss this woman statement and the intent behind it cuz in this case there is clear intent.

I have already stated that she is a moron who should not be in any type of official office, but just for the record; I believe that she is a low-brow who does not understand the issues of racial prejudice and she has not the intellectual ability or guile to 'Engage brain before operating mouth' and needs to GO.

As for "spin machine in full flow"; 'spin' is a double edged sword which cuts both ways,and - like a 'handgun' our view of it fully depends whether we are pointing the gun at someone or having it pointed at us.

I assume from the tone of your comment then Girth, that you sanction propaganda when it persuades opinion against Farage and UKIP, but when I point out that such propaganda is based on 'unproven allegation' summisation and 'might' and 'Probably', in contrast to the very real extensive and proven criminal and immoral acts perpetrated by the other main political parties, you deem such as 'spin'.

[kirklancaster]

Meh. Maybe she does have an irrational fear / phobia of people with "black features". Phobias are many and varied, and to play devil's advocate, you can't just "decide" not to have a phobia. I wish that I wasn't racist about spiders, I really try, but then I see a spider and lose my **** every time. SO, she can't be "blamed" for her phobia - there's probably someone else who can be blamed for it (i.e. whoever presumably raised her on boogeyman tales about black people).

Howeveeerrr...

1) Should someone with an irrational fear or phobia of an ethnic group seek a career in politics or be accepted as a valid politician in a multi-racial country?

NOPE.


2) Does her choice of political allegiance and party membership speak volumes about UKIP?

Yup yup yup!

She felt like she would "fit in" at UKIP and find like-minded people. IMO, she was 100% right. Do you think for one second that her colleagues didn't know about her "fears" and opinions about black people before it came out in this documentary? It seems highly unlikely. She's been expelled because her views explicitly came out in public and UKIP, currently enjoying a bit of a membership boost, doesn't want to be seen as "extreme". She was not kicked out for holding those views in the first place.

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

:clap1:

[GiRTh]

I have already stated that she is a moron who should not be in any type of official office, but just for the record; I believe that she is a low-brow who does not understand the issues of racial prejudice and she has not the intellectual ability or guile to 'Engage brain before operating mouth' and needs to GO.

As for "spin machine in full flow"; 'spin' is a double edged sword which cuts both ways,and - like a 'handgun' our view of it fully depends whether we are pointing the gun at someone or having it pointed at us.

I assume from the tone of your comment then Girth, that you sanction propaganda when it persuades opinion against Farage and UKIP, but when I point out that such propaganda is based on 'unproven allegation' summisation and 'might' and 'Probably', in contrast to the very real extensive and proven criminal and immoral acts perpetrated by the other main political parties, you deem such as 'spin'.
I dont care about Farage ansd Ukip I think they are a joke. As they are a new party they are rightly under increased scrutiny. As the issues was this ladies comments then I feel we should stick to the issue and not try to deflect into a discussion about political corruption,. IF you want that discussion then start that thread. :thumbs:

[arista]

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week now

[kirklancaster]

I dont care about Farage ansd Ukip I think they are a joke. As they are a new party they are rightly under increased scrutiny. As the issues was this ladies comments then I feel we should stick to the issue and not try to deflect into a discussion about political corruption,. IF you want that discussion then start that thread. :thumbs:

Fair comment Girth. You got me:bawling:

[kirklancaster]

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week now

Yes Arista, I agree, and this new scandal story will 'run' and 'run'.

[billy123]

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week nowNo it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/23/far-right-group-orchestrated-email-campaign-over-ukip-drama?CMP=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

[Nedusa]

Its the weakest defense I've ever heard. I'd respect her more if she admitted her irrational hatred. Her phobia is as clear a case of blatant racism as we will come across for a while.

Yes......I tend to agree, I think she has invented the phobia to use to defend her obvious racism.

[Nedusa]

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

I think that the powers that be have done a sterling job in slowly tarnishing the UKIP brand, it wouldn't surprise me if half the so called UKIP councillors were not in fact paid by person or persons unknown to get involved with UKIP simply so their right wing leanings could be exposed at a later date.

This party cannot be allowed to gain traction so says the official line, it must be seen to be tainted so we will help it on it's way with scandal after scandal in the hope that voters will be put off by their apparent right wing image.

So maybe many polls will start to show diminishing support for UKIP but this is based on voter feedback I would hope in the actual ballot booth voters still put their X in the UKIP space.

Our Political establishment must listen to us , we vote them in to do our bidding not to dictate what is best for us. It looks like they pass laws that are best for them and their paymasters - this has to stop and if UKIP can provide a short sharp shock then fine by me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/23/far-right-group-orchestrated-email-campaign-over-ukip-drama?CMP=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

"A councillor expelled by Ukip "

what part of the above are you having trouble with?

:shrug:

[kirklancaster]

No it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/23/far-right-group-orchestrated-email-campaign-over-ukip-drama?CMP=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

Even if the figures can be proved - and according to the linked article the Guardian could not provide such proof - it still leaves almost 3,000 complaints which we must deem then to be genuine and from members of the viewing public, so while the template is an indictment of the BNP's & Britain First's unethical manipulations, the remainder of the protests received are a reflection of the genuine umbrage felt by the public at what they perceived to be a program which was totally prejudiced against UKIP.

And there is nothing to say either, of course, that Farage knew about such shady practices, was complicit in them, or even wanted or welcomed them.

Do not Far Right racist groups align themselves to the Conservative party and support them? Do not Extreme Left Wing Groups align themselves the Labour Party and support them? This does not mean that Cameron or Milliband are aware of it, or that they want or welcome it.

So there is no evidence that Farage and UKIP are really "in bed" with the BNP or Britain First.

These idiots will support whichever party has a manifesto closer to their own ideologies no matter how tenuous such a closeness is, simply because they cannot ever attain power themselves.

I don't agree with any party's manifesto in its entirety, but come Election Day, I will be forced to opt for the one party whose policies come closest to reflecting my own ideology - even if it means some other of their policies are less than ideal.

As I say, up to now, Farage has done nothing to compel that he is a racist or has racist intentions once - and if - he ever does come to power, no matter how others perceive his guilt by association because of their own rigid ideology and prejudices.

The same cannot be said for the other parties which have secreted among their members and MP's every conceivable kind of self-seeker, and pervert and deviant and cheat known to man - including covert racists - as history attests.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I see Rifkind has resigned

Still lets keep on about ex councillors

[billy123]

"A councillor expelled by Ukip "

what part of the above are you having trouble with?

:shrug:Umm the TV show in my post had nothing to do with any of the many expelled councillors :shrug:
Bless you! Im not sure what part of that you are having trouble with. :joker:
Oh dear.
Maybe the inability to understand or read is a trait of kippers it would explain a lot. :joker::joker::joker::joker:

[kirklancaster]

Umm the TV show in my post had nothing to do with any of the many expelled councillors :shrug:
Bless you! Im not sure what part of that you are having trouble with. :joker:
Oh dear.
Maybe the inability to understand or read is a trait of kippers it would explain a lot. :joker::joker::joker::joker:

:joker::joker::joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Umm the TV show in my post had nothing to do with any of the many expelled councillors :shrug:
Bless you! Im not sure what part of that you are having trouble with. :joker:
Oh dear.
Maybe the inability to understand or read is a trait of kippers it would explain a lot. :joker::joker::joker::joker:

No, you said to Arista that this story has not gone now and Arista was right, it has and is old news

[kirklancaster]

No, you said to Arista that this story has not gone now and Arista was right, it has and is old news

I agree LT - And it was never really 'earth shattering' news to begin with when put into perspective with everything else which is occurring in this fecked up world, was it?

[billy123]

Starting a new thread every time kippers leave their racist views hanging out of their panty liners would be a tiresome and board consuming exercise.
Maybe a big old UKIP bigotry thread would be better?

They have dropped to their biggest low in the polls in their history since they agreed to be recorded. Surely this must concern kippers??
Dont you want to talk about it??

[billy123]

Brush Brush Brush! Shhhhhh

http://www.barefootblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/brush-under-carpet.jpg

[Kizzy]

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

It's as close to true racism as you can get... not in the extremist, violent sense; but in an irrational,deep seated sense.

[joeysteele]

It's as close to true racism as you can get... not in the extremist, violent sense; but in an irrational,deep seated sense.

I am more inclined to be with you on this Kizzy.

If it isn't a form of racism, then it certainly is, in my view, a strong unhealthy intolerance to certain people.
For me, as with racism, any such irrational intolerance has no place in UK politics.

She has only been pressured to go and got rid of, since this came out to the public, the UKIP press officer said she had been told before to be careful of what she said.

How many more think like her,I would guess no way is she the only one or even that she is possibly a minority.
It is why I will never, in addition to their reckless EU policy,ever consider taking a massive gamble with the UKs future and vote for UKIP.

[kirklancaster]

Starting a new thread every time kippers leave their racist views hanging out of their panty liners would be a tiresome and board consuming exercise.
Maybe a big old UKIP bigotry thread would be better?

They have dropped to their biggest low in the polls in their history since they agreed to be recorded. Surely this must concern kippers??
Dont you want to talk about it??

It would help immensely Bobnot if you identified just who are addressing. for me personally, I don't mind talking about any issues, and by the part which I have emboldened, do you mean "kippers" (I like that word :laugh:) as in UKIP party representatives leaving their racist views out to dry? Or do you mean those of us on here who have the courage not to follow what is merely the populist view, in favour of posting rational, detached and balanced views which see some merit in Farage and UKIP's policies? If it is the latter, supporting UKIP does not make us racist.

In fact, the real racists are really those who bend over backwards to be seen to be - misguidedly and fanatically - supporting an 'Open Door' immigration policy when such a policy is irreparably damaging to the security of this great country, utterly devastating to an economy which already is near to collapse, and critically overloading our already overwhelmed services like our Police, NHS, Housing, and Employment, because such madness is racist against the indegenous population of this country - and by indegenous, I include immigrants born here, as well as those already here, a lot of whom are also opposed to continued unfettered immigration.

Like an egg in a French batter recipe; an oeuf is an oeuf.

[kirklancaster]

Brush Brush Brush! Shhhhhh

http://www.barefootblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/brush-under-carpet.jpg

:joker: Sincere thanks for illustrating just how the Tories, Labour and Liberals have a long history of sweeping the crooks and deviants in their parties under the carpet.

Very helpful. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Starting a new thread every time kippers leave their racist views hanging out of their panty liners would be a tiresome and board consuming exercise.
Maybe a big old UKIP bigotry thread would be better?

They have dropped to their biggest low in the polls in their history since they agreed to be recorded. Surely this must concern kippers??
Dont you want to talk about it??

I wonder if that's where the phrase ' done up like a kipper comes from?' ;)

[Toy Soldier]

It's as close to true racism as you can get... not in the extremist, violent sense; but in an irrational,deep seated sense.

Thinking about it, I do have to agree with you there. It's essentially the "purest" racism. There are many people out there who have racist tendencies for all sorts of reasons - they believe or have been told specific things about a group, like that they are violent, or untrustworthy, or that they have "stolen our jobs", or that they will erode our culture... but it's more about those "things that they (think that they) know about those sorts of people". They genuinely believe specific bad things about them and that's where the hatred comes from.

But when someone doesn't seem to have ANY cause - they just look at people with a certain skin colour and "feel ill at ease", with no specific reason, just instinctively and completely arbitrarily? That's sort of the epitome of racism, in many ways.

[Crimson Dynamo]

lol

like the tories are not jam packed full of racists and labour of socialists on their ipads doing their shopping at John Lewis


and liberals er, well

do they actually exist?

[Nedusa]

Thinking about it, I do have to agree with you there. It's essentially the "purest" racism. There are many people out there who have racist tendencies for all sorts of reasons - they believe or have been told specific things about a group, like that they are violent, or untrustworthy, or that they have "stolen our jobs", or that they will erode our culture... but it's more about those "things that they (think that they) know about those sorts of people". They genuinely believe specific bad things about them and that's where the hatred comes from.

But when someone doesn't seem to have ANY cause - they just look at people with a certain skin colour and "feel ill at ease", with no specific reason, just instinctively and completely arbitrarily? That's sort of the epitome of racism, in many ways.

What is true racism....is it ignorance or fear or maybe both.

Perhaps it's a mixture of ignorance, fear and conditioning maybe by their parents who were also probably racist or cultural conditioning where black people are portrayed as rapists or violent gangsters.

Fact is people now as they become more educated less ignorant and we as a nation become more culturally diverse the effects are plain to see as the younger generations do not even understand how anyone could ever be prejudice against another person because their skin colour is slightly darker. I mean it's absolute madness if you think about it.

Older people are just displaying a mixture of all of those reasons and add to that snobbery as they somehow think they are more enlightened more intelligent than non white peoples.

Hopefully racism will continue to decline as we move forward and break down these ridiculous reasons for continuing the bigotry.

[Kizzy]

What is true racism....is it ignorance or fear or maybe both.

Perhaps it's a mixture of ignorance, fear and conditioning maybe by their parents who were also probably racist or cultural conditioning where black people are portrayed as rapists or violent gangsters.

Fact is people now as they become more educated less ignorant and we as a nation become more culturally diverse the effects are plain to see as the younger generations do not even understand how anyone could ever be prejudice against another person because their skin colour is slightly darker. I mean it's absolute madness if you think about it.

Older people are just displaying a mixture of all of those reasons and add to that snobbery as they somehow think they are more enlightened more intelligent than non white peoples.

Hopefully racism will continue to decline as we move forward and break down these ridiculous reasons for continuing the bigotry.

Don't tar all older people with this... What are you saying, she's not racist she's just a prejudiced bigot then?
It's a good thing she's out then who want's backwards thinking representation, not me.

[Nedusa]

Don't tar all older people with this... What are you saying, she's not racist she's just a prejudiced bigot then?
It's a good thing she's out then who want's backwards thinking representation, not me.

No....I'm saying she is a racist but I'm asking the question what makes people racist what is it that forms these views in peoples minds. fear,ignorance,parental conditioning, cultural conditioning, class conditioning. what makes people (more older than younger) walk around with these views ?

[GiRTh]

No....I'm saying she is a racist but I'm asking the question what makes people racist what is it that forms these views in peoples minds. fear,ignorance,parental conditioning, cultural conditioning, class conditioning. what makes people (more older than younger) walk around with these views ?
It mostly stems from ignorance and an unwillingness to accept change.

I also dont accept older people can be excused in any way. Not all older people are as you mention many dont have any prejudices.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just watched Meet the Ukippers

salt of the earth people trying to effect change

:love:

[kirklancaster]

Just watched Meet the Ukippers

salt of the earth people trying to effect change

:love:

:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

Tbh i'm sure all the parties have racists hidden within them.UKIP's just getting all the attention now because they're the next big thing in politics atm and are scaring the life out of the older parties.It'll die down after the election when all the political sniping toward all parties calms down a little.
Atleast UKIP are dealing with it and getting rid of the ignorant people they find in their party.
God knows how many closet racists are lurking in all the political parties and go unchecked.

[kirklancaster]

Tbh i'm sure all the parties have racists hidden within them.UKIP's just getting all the attention now because they're the next big thing in politics atm and are scaring the life out of the older parties.It'll die down after the election when all the political sniping toward all parties calms down a little.
Atleast UKIP are dealing with it and getting rid of the ignorant people they find in their party.
God knows how many closet racists are lurking in all the political parties and go unchecked.

Exactly. :thumbs: