Feck University - Get a Trade Young People then No Debts

[arista]

University is not a help
Get a Trade first
Work First

[Jay.]

But I want to be a teacher, Arista, don't tell me what to do!!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

agreed, too many stupid media degrees etc

fine for lawyers and doctors but things like media, history, psychology and all that stuff should be ended

10 hours work a week and the rest of time wanking, watching telly and drinking?

feck off you lazy student gits

[Marsh.]

Some careers require the education.

There's pros and cons to both avenues. Depends upon the person.

If you want to join your dad plumbing then obviously uni is a waste of time for you.

[arista]

But I want to be a teacher, Arista, don't tell me what to do!!!!


Thats Noble


Become a Teachers Assistant
and work in Schools First
they need you
Good Money

[Marsh.]

Thats Noble


Become a Teachers Assistant
and work in Schools First
they need you
Good Money

Teachers in training do that in addition to earning their degree.

[arista]

Teachers in training do that in addition to earning their degree.


Well this thread is not for Jay
a Future Good Teacher

[Samm]

agreed, too many stupid media degrees etc

fine for lawyers and doctors but things like media, history, psychology and all that stuff should be ended

10 hours work a week and the rest of time wanking, watching telly and drinking?

feck off you lazy student gits

Shut up, it's about youth life

I plan to go to uni and take a media course

[Vicky.]

I don't really understand the fuss about student debts, as they only need to be paid back once you are earning a certain amount anyway.

My mum and dad are going to remortgage the house to pay for my brothers uni fees outright.

[arista]

agreed, too many stupid media degrees etc

fine for lawyers and doctors but things like media, history, psychology and all that stuff should be ended

10 hours work a week and the rest of time wanking, watching telly and drinking?

feck off you lazy student gits


Bang on Right

[Jay.]

Thats Noble


Become a Teachers Assistant
and work in Schools First
they need you
Good Money

Exactly what Marsh said.

[Jay.]

Well this thread is not for Jay
a Future Good Teacher

:clap1:

[Samm]

The student debt should be lowered or just cut overall

[Jay.]

I'm doing a communication and media degree. So if I got bored of being a teacher, I could work with in any office workplace with ease. I also need a degree in Media/English to work as a Media/English/ICT teacher.

The fee's can be easily paid off too, I'm not too worried about that.

[arista]

I don't really understand the fuss about student debts, as they only need to be paid back once you are earning a certain amount anyway.

My mum and dad are going to remortgage the house to pay for my brothers uni fees outright.

Yes Labour is going on about it


I agree with what you say
Wise Vicky

[Crimson Dynamo]

Shut up, it's about youth life

I plan to go to uni and take a media course

and join the job market 3 years behind in a job that they want experience and not theory?

[Marsh.]

and join the job market 3 years behind in a job that they want experience and not theory?

That's an issue today for both uni goers and non uni goers.

But there are jobs that also require degree level education.

[arista]

The student debt should be lowered or just cut overall


New Labour
brought it in



Its here forever
Suck it Up

[Samm]

and join the job market 3 years behind in a job that they want experience and not theory?

You don't know what they want, if they see you took a media degree at uni it will look much better then seeing you have worked before and have some experience

and as for today I am completely behind Labour

[Vicky.]

That's an issue today for both uni goers and non uni goers.

But there are jobs that also require degree level education.

This is the thing, it really depends what job you want to do. Some require education, others experience.

[arista]

That's an issue today for both uni goers and non uni goers.

But there are jobs that also require degree level education.

But Marsh by the Time they take to do that
years
The Job is filled by a English Speak French Man

High Educated french are over here now

[Jay.]

Uni's also offer a lot of work placements. I have the chance of either taking a year long placement of a 4 week minimum.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's an issue today for both uni goers and non uni goers.

But there are jobs that also require degree level education.

yes but there are an awful lot of young folk go and its like a 3 year piss up and at the end of it apply for jobs that are not looking for degrees so they end up getting jobs where their bosses are the same age as them but already have 3 or 4 years experience. :shrug:

[arista]

yes but there are an awful lot of young folk go and its like a 3 year piss up and at the end of it apply for jobs that are not looking for degrees so they end up getting jobs where their bosses are the same age as them but already have 3 or 4 years experience. :shrug:


LT speaks the Truth

[Marsh.]

But Marsh by the Time they take to do that
years
The Job is filled by a English Speak French Man

High Educated french are over here now

Well if they don't go to uni they don't get the job either so.... :shrug:

Close the borders. :idc:

[Samm]

yes but there are an awful lot of young folk go and its like a 3 year piss up and at the end of it apply for jobs that are not looking for degrees so they end up getting jobs where their bosses are the same age as them but already have 3 or 4 years experience. :shrug:

What's wrong about a bit of fun, after having about 7 years of pure education there's nothing wrong about it

[Cherie]

This is the thing, it really depends what job you want to do. Some require education, others experience.

:shocked:talk them out of this, Martin Lewis did a money programme a out student debt about a year ago, and doing this is a big no no, if they get into trouble paying it off they could lose their house, and as you say your brother wont start paying it off until he starts earning 21k and the it goes up in stages plus it is written off after a certain amount of time so say for instance he couldn't work for some reason his debt would never need to be repaid, whereas if they pay for the fees the onus is on them

[Marsh.]

yes but there are an awful lot of young folk go and its like a 3 year piss up and at the end of it apply for jobs that are not looking for degrees so they end up getting jobs where their bosses are the same age as them but already have 3 or 4 years experience. :shrug:

That's not their fault but the state of the country today.

[Cherie]

What's wrong about a bit of fun, after having about 7 years of pure education there's nothing wrong about it

Not sure that is the right approach to Uni :idc: it costs too much just to have a 3 year holiday

[Vicky.]

:shocked:talk them out of this, Martin Lewis did a money programme a out student debt about a year ago, and doing this is a big no no, if they get into trouble paying it off they could lose their house, and as you say your brother wont start paying it off until he starts earning 21k and the it goes up in stages plus it is written off after a certain amount of time so say for instance he couldn't work for some reason his debt would never need to be repaid, whereas if they pay for the fees the onus is on them

They are adamant they dont want him to end up in mountains of debt :S

I think its quite stupid of them really, given he doesn't need to pay it back til he's earning a decent amount, and even then its pennies that he has to pay from his wages

[Crimson Dynamo]

What's wrong about a bit of fun, after having about 7 years of pure education there's nothing wrong about it

racking up debt and sleeping is a waste of a young life.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's not their fault but the state of the country today.

and its the fault of you and the your socialist pals :fist:

[Cherie]

They are adamant they dont want him to end up in mountains of debt :S

I think its quite stupid of them really, given he doesn't need to pay it back til he's earning a decent amount, and even then its pennies that he has to pay from his wages

Search for the programme online maybe

[arista]

Well if they don't go to uni they don't get the job either so.... :shrug:

Close the borders. :idc:


They will if they are Not Fussy
Fecking Youth

[Vicky.]

Search for the programme online maybe

They wont listen. Stubborn bastards they are :joker: My dad was paying double on his mortgage payments a few years back as they were planning on doing this so they wanted to get it completely paid off. I think they are just excited that they have one child thats interested in going to uni tbh, as me and my sister had no interest at all given how much we hated school

[Samm]

racking up debt and sleeping is a waste of a young life.

k

[Samm]

Not sure that is the right approach to Uni :idc: it costs too much just to have a 3 year holiday

k

[Marsh.]

They will if they are Not Fussy
Fecking Youth

Uh.... that's the point.

They ARE fussy.

[Marsh.]

racking up debt and sleeping is a waste of a young life.

Stacking shelves and earning a pittance for ten years is also a waste of time. :idc:

[arista]

Stacking shelves and earning a pittance for ten years is also a waste of time. :idc:


No learn a Trade like
Plumbing
good money once you learn it all

[arista]

Uh.... that's the point.

They ARE fussy.


Yes Bloody Fussy Students
I just want to Slap them in the Face
and Shout Move it

[Marsh.]

Yes Bloody Fussy Students
I just want to Slap them in the Face
and Shout Move it

No, employers are fussy.

Besides, it's a shame when getting an education in general is seen as a bad thing. It's not always about job prospects.

Lots and lots of students work jobs alongside it to fund their life.

[arista]

No, employers are fussy.

Besides, it's a shame when getting an education in general is seen as a bad thing. It's not always about job prospects.

Lots and lots of students work jobs alongside it to fund their life.


No Education is Good (Basic Education is Essential )
but University is not worth it now

[Kizzy]

They are adamant they dont want him to end up in mountains of debt :S

I think its quite stupid of them really, given he doesn't need to pay it back til he's earning a decent amount, and even then its pennies that he has to pay from his wages

I agree with cherie, get some breakdowns of how the debt is spread and show them. What about the grants that come with the loans if they are a low income family he might be entitled to those? He could put them in an ISA and pay a portion of the loan off with that maybe?

[Marsh.]

No Education is Good

ok

[Vicky.]

I agree with cherie, get some breakdowns of how the debt is spread and show them. What about the grants that come with the loans if they are a low income family he might be entitled to those? He could put them in an ISA and pay a portion of the loan off with that maybe?

I dont think they would be classed as a low income family. My mums a nurse, my dad works and gets pension from the prison service too.

I already know its daft and have told them, but meh. Its their money :shrug:

[Kizzy]

I dont think they would be classed as a low income family. My mums a nurse, my dad works and gets pension from the prison service too.

I already know its daft and have told them, but meh. Its their money :shrug:

I guess it is, he better not drop out then she'll kill him :laugh:

[Vicky.]

I guess it is, he better not drop out then she'll kill him :laugh:

He's doing a gap year in africa first apparently, going in a few months :o He wants to help the ebola victims...I told him I will kill him myself if he brings that **** back here :laugh:

[Marsh.]

He's doing a gap year in africa first apparently, going in a few months :o He wants to help the ebola victims...I told him I will kill him myself if he brings that **** back here :laugh:

:joker:

[RichardG]

I dont think they would be classed as a low income family. My mums a nurse, my dad works and gets pension from the prison service too.

I already know its daft and have told them, but meh. Its their money :shrug:

It is a bit odd seeing as the loan repayment level is actually incredibly low. :laugh:

If they insist on going ahead with it then they should put it towards living costs. I'm not from a low income household either so will only receive a loan of £5000 a year when I go, which isn't much when most student accomodation is well above £4000, leaving not much left to survive on if you don't get a job while your studying. D:

[Kizzy]

He's doing a gap year in africa first apparently, going in a few months :o He wants to help the ebola victims...I told him I will kill him myself if he brings that **** back here :laugh:

What a guy! bet your ma is so proud, hopefully Labour will get in and bring the fees down to £6k as promised *crosses fingers*

[Crimson Dynamo]

He's doing a gap year in africa first apparently, going in a few months :o He wants to help the ebola victims...I told him I will kill him myself if he brings that **** back here :laugh:

jesus H when will people learn about this over hyped regional disease from sub saharan africa?

he has bought the missionary myth

[Vicky.]

jesus H when will people learn about this over hyped regional disease from sub saharan africa?

he has bought the missionary myth

Tbf he always said he wanted to help in Africa in his gap year...just he was planning on going with a group and helping build schools or something, this ebola thing has sidetracked him slightly

[joeysteele]

My parents saw me through UNI, I see myself as one of the lucky ones,it still doesn't change the fact that some people will come out of UNI with upwards of over £25,000 of debt around their necks even before they start doing anything else.

It is a debt that is there too, should they need to apply for other things.

Okay, Labour introduced the fees, then increased them slightly.
Then in 2010 we had the Lib Dems warning that the Conservatives were going to at least double the fees from the £3,000 they were then.
The Lib Dems near stalked new and existing students promising to abolish the fees altogether and if they had any influence after the 2010 election, to never vote to increase them.
Then they voted to actually 'treble' them.

I am no longer a student at Uni, I do however applaud Labour's plan to reduce the max. by a third to £6,000.
Also the very last people who should be talking about tuition fees and what should be done, are both the Conservatives and Lib Dems.
The Conservatives for not revealing they intended to treble the fees and the Lib Dems for their misleading of students and their families with their then betrayal of even signed pledges.

There are good and not so good students, Uni can be both physically and mentally draining for years, no wonder when assignments and work is complete, they really go wild and let their hair down.
It is easy to say all students are lazy,without actual fair and just knowledge of what they are doing, some courses are far harder and demanding than others.

Since joining tibb in 2010,I have had to battle against near prejudice and put downs as to students but I would like to see those who criticise and judge do some of the intense work and endless researching I had to do with strict deadlines.

I worked with dedication and extremely hard for my degrees and I was glad I was lucky enough to have the family backing not to leave Uni with massive debt around my neck, no matter how much I would have had to pay back or when.
It is still a total debt Students have.
All before going to try to buy property or rent property as well as all other things they need to do with any finances.

Any reduction in that new debt since the fees were trebled under this lying coalition govt; should be welcomed in my view, by Students, their families and those planning to just explore going to Uni too.

[JoshBB]

It's great that labour want to reduce them by 3000, but since they have been tripled since 2010 it just really isn't enough. Step in the right direction, yes. Enough, no.

[Kizzy]

If my daughter had been born a couple of months earlier she would have been in with the last intake to start at 3k :/

[Samuel.]

University hasn't only taught me well, I've grown considerably as a person since going. The changes I've gone through personally have been worth way more to me then the degree at the end of it. Regardless of the job prospects going forward, I feel more ready for life than I could have imagined as the timid hermit I was previously. This doesn't apply to everybody but it's been so vital for me; I found myself.

I don't really understand the fuss about student debts, as they only need to be paid back once you are earning a certain amount anyway.

My mum and dad are going to remortgage the house to pay for my brothers uni fees outright.

Completely agree. Having to earn over 21k to pay back around £30 a month, roughly the same as a mobile phone contract, is nothing really.

[kirklancaster]

Some careers require the education.

There's pros and cons to both avenues. Depends upon the person.

If you want to join your dad plumbing then obviously uni is a waste of time for you.

Sounds like the streetwalkers wing in a women's jail - that's full of pros and cons. :laugh:

[Toy Soldier]

I can appreciate that Uni students, during those years, could be seen as "doing very little" but there's more to the University experience than that, in my opinion. More to it than the job you get / money you make afterwards, too. About to throw out some MASSIVE generalizations here but... meh... it is true:

People who I know around my age, in their 20's / 30's. The ones who went to University are generally making less money than the ones who went straight into employment or trades. Yes. However, the ones who went straight into employments and trades are - in general - ****ing pig ignorant to anything in the world outside of their home town (which they probably grew up in, and went to school in too). They are fixing up the same houses they walked past when they were 5 years old. They're drinking in the same dusty pubs, with the same dusty friends, that they had their first pint in at 18. Fast forward 40 years and the ones who haven't drunk or eaten themselves to death will still be drinking in those same dusty pubs with the same dusty friends.

A University education teaches you how to think critically, to reason, to use logic. To know more about the world - to be INTERESTED in knowing more about the world - than what has fallen into your tiny sphere of existence.

I know the former is enough for some people. "Go to school get a trade get a job get married have some kids buy a house retire die". It's (rightly) not enough for many people.

I'm also not going to pretend that there aren't a huge number of students who fail to make the most of their time at University. There definitely are. In my opinion, though, much of that is due to massive failings in how the education system preceding University works. That is a WHOLE other debate, though. It's also sort of irrelevant. Stating that University is a "waste of time" for anyone who isn't seeking a vocational qualification is, frankly, bull****. It stems from the sort of mindset that thinks "work work working and accumulating wealth" is the be all and end all of the human experience.

[Marsh.]

That's exactly it. It's all well and good throwing people into employment at the earliest possible age so they can contribute to taxes, taxes, taxes but there is more to life.

[Toy Soldier]

University hasn't only taught me well, I've grown considerably as a person since going. The changes I've gone through personally have been worth way more to me then the degree at the end of it. Regardless of the job prospects going forward, I feel more ready for life than I could have imagined as the timid hermit I was previously. This doesn't apply to everybody but it's been so vital for me; I found myself.

And this, very well stated.

There are people that I met on my first day of first year University and was still living with 4 years later, on our last day in a shared house. All of us were very, very different people on that last day than the kids who arrived on the first day of freshers week. This is largely true of everyone I met through University.

Majority of the guys who went straight into employment and didn't move more than a couple of miles from home, as far as I can tell, were exactly the same people aged 22 as they were when I knew them at school aged 16. ****, I'm nearly 30 now and from what I've seen most of them are STILL exactly who they were at 16 :joker:.

[smudgie]

Totally up to the individual, both of mine went to uni.
Son went first, being the elldest, bright lad, but he felt dragged down by yet more education and dropped out after about 5 months.
Daughter had the sense to have a gap year, she was then looking forward to it, she loved every minute of it, moved to Brighton to do her teaching degree and has never looked back.
Son ended up doing his degree whilst doing an apprenticeship so he got there in the end,
He ended up with so much less debt, but our daughter has ended up with so much more life experience, the difference in their wages is not that big once her uni fees are taken out of her monthly wage packet, maybe about £6grand, but her chances of promotions are far higher.

[kirklancaster]

University hasn't only taught me well, I've grown considerably as a person since going. The changes I've gone through personally have been worth way more to me then the degree at the end of it. Regardless of the job prospects going forward, I feel more ready for life than I could have imagined as the timid hermit I was previously. This doesn't apply to everybody but it's been so vital for me; I found myself.

Completely agree. Having to earn over 21k to pay back around £30 a month, roughly the same as a mobile phone contract, is nothing really.

Good post great sense.

More young people aren't equipped to deal with life now because technology has taken over from real human interaction; people text instead of talking, punch keyboards instead of talking, live life by proxy via video games in darkened rooms instead of going out into the world and enjoying their own real mini-adventures.

I'm glad for you Samuel. Really glad. You sound so balanced and mature. Let's hope this fact and your qualifications do lead to a good career which you'll enjoy.

[kirklancaster]

Totally up to the individual, both of mine went to uni.
Son went first, being the elldest, bright lad, but he felt dragged down by yet more education and dropped out after about 5 months.
Daughter had the sense to have a gap year, she was then looking forward to it, she loved every minute of it, moved to Brighton to do her teaching degree and has never looked back.
Son ended up doing his degree whilst doing an apprenticeship so he got there in the end,
He ended up with so much less debt, but our daughter has ended up with so much more life experience, the difference in their wages is not that big once her uni fees are taken out of her monthly wage packet, maybe about £6grand, but her chances of promotions are far higher.

Great to hear Smudgie. My son racked up over £30K of debt gaining his Law degree but now works in a completely different field. My other two are still trying to find their way but at least all three are educated and happy.

Like you say; it's up to the individual.

[kirklancaster]

That's exactly it. It's all well and good throwing people into employment at the earliest possible age so they can contribute to taxes, taxes, taxes but there is more to life.

Good point Marsh. Being 'trapped' by financial circumstances in a job we do not like really does become 'work'. Being relatively happy in a career is worth thousands of pounds in my opinion.

[kirklancaster]

I can appreciate that Uni students, during those years, could be seen as "doing very little" but there's more to the University experience than that, in my opinion. More to it than the job you get / money you make afterwards, too. About to throw out some MASSIVE generalizations here but... meh... it is true:

People who I know around my age, in their 20's / 30's. The ones who went to University are generally making less money than the ones who went straight into employment or trades. Yes. However, the ones who went straight into employments and trades are - in general - ****ing pig ignorant to anything in the world outside of their home town (which they probably grew up in, and went to school in too). They are fixing up the same houses they walked past when they were 5 years old. They're drinking in the same dusty pubs, with the same dusty friends, that they had their first pint in at 18. Fast forward 40 years and the ones who haven't drunk or eaten themselves to death will still be drinking in those same dusty pubs with the same dusty friends.

A University education teaches you how to think critically, to reason, to use logic. To know more about the world - to be INTERESTED in knowing more about the world - than what has fallen into your tiny sphere of existence.

I know the former is enough for some people. "Go to school get a trade get a job get married have some kids buy a house retire die". It's (rightly) not enough for many people.

I'm also not going to pretend that there aren't a huge number of students who fail to make the most of their time at University. There definitely are. In my opinion, though, much of that is due to massive failings in how the education system preceding University works. That is a WHOLE other debate, though. It's also sort of irrelevant. Stating that University is a "waste of time" for anyone who isn't seeking a vocational qualification is, frankly, bull****. It stems from the sort of mindset that thinks "work work working and accumulating wealth" is the be all and end all of the human experience.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: A cracking post.

I never went to uni so I can only relate via my 3 kids, but the points you make about it are valid in my opinion. It is more than mere education (as Samuel so elegantly puts it in his post).

I can however, definitely vouch for your sentiments in the section which I have emboldened because I recognise everything you say in it. I would go further and add that such people usually end up marrying the girl from the next street - if not the next door. We are different generations but it seems like nothing much has changed there.

[MTVN]

agreed, too many stupid media degrees etc

fine for lawyers and doctors but things like media, history, psychology and all that stuff should be ended

10 hours work a week and the rest of time wanking, watching telly and drinking?

feck off you lazy student gits

Nonsense, without history government and society would be devoid of any direction or understanding

[Nedusa]

It's one of the biggest scams going, create thousands of pointless degree courses after upgrading hundreds of further education colleges to give out these pointless degrees.

So thousands of students who would be better suited to vocational work or professional trades have now got a sub standard degree in media studies from a university nobody has heard of. And they have £30,000 debt as well.

So now unemployed looking for that perfect media job they are sadly disappointed to learn 5,000 other graduates have similar or better degrees and they too are looking for the same job you are after.

So now unable to get your foot on the ladder to success unable to slot into the high powered media position you thought was there , instead saddled with 30 grand of debt you cannot leave your parents house and have to take any job you find.

So McDonald's at this point start to look like a good career move....

This situation is replayed over and over again and is a direct consequence of the shameful exploitation of the higher education system and a misguided or deluded idea that everyone should have a degree and all go to excel in high powered professional careers.

Society doesn't work like that , we can't all be Chiefs there have to be some Indians . A mixture of workers straddling all levels of employment .

Getting an apprentiship and being trained and paid and getting work experience from the start is now a very desirable career choice. I only wish there were more apprentiships out there.

But the present situation is unsustainable and unfair to the hundreds of thousands of youngsters whose carreer aspirations are being seriously undermined by successive govts shortsighted and ultimately flawed education policies.

[joeysteele]

It's great that labour want to reduce them by 3000, but since they have been tripled since 2010 it just really isn't enough. Step in the right direction, yes. Enough, no.

You ae right, it isn't enough, they should be reduced by at least half in my view, Universities were doing okay when they were only £3,000 a year ,so still near being doubled should be more than ample,despite the Universities croaking.

This is at least a start in the right direction.

However, it is in my view obscene that students at Uni, should come out of that education, (and despite the views of some who always get at students, actually do work really hard in the main for their degrees), with likely debts of more than £25,000 around their necks which are then taken into account when applying for mortgages etc; too.
Just for trying to better themselves.

Get jobs rather than UNi some say, what jobs, a part time job, a zero hours contrac job or another low paid job where in fact in those sort of jobs very little and even no tax would be paid anyway.
It is easy to attack students as being lazy and Uni a waste of time,while others can hold that view it doesn't make it right to brand all students the same.
I do get really annoyed at that since I saw how hard others worked at UNI and how hard and stressful I found it at times too.
Often having to prepare and work all through the night,over my years at UNI,at times to make sure I had everything done and in order.

The fact is this coalition should have never trebled the fees in the first place,with a policy to at least double the fees from one party and the wish to abolish the fees by the other party in the coalition,how the compromise came to actually treble them, is beyond all understanding to me.

[kirklancaster]

It's one of the biggest scams going, create thousands of pointless degree courses after upgrading hundreds of further education colleges to give out these pointless degrees.

So thousands of students who would be better suited to vocational work or professional trades have now got a sub standard degree in media studies from a university nobody has heard of. And they have £30,000 debt as well.

So now unemployed looking for that perfect media job they are sadly disappointed to learn 5,000 other graduates have similar or better degrees and they too are looking for the same job you are after.

So now unable to get your foot on the ladder to success unable to slot into the high powered media position you thought was there , instead saddled with 30 grand of debt you cannot leave your parents house and have to take any job you find.

So McDonald's at this point start to look like a good career move....

This situation is replayed over and over again and is a direct consequence of the shameful exploitation of the higher education system and a misguided or deluded idea that everyone should have a degree and all go to excel in high powered professional careers.

Society doesn't work like that , we can't all be Chiefs there have to be some Indians . A mixture of workers straddling all levels of employment .

Getting an apprentiship and being trained and paid and getting work experience from the start is now a very desirable career choice. I only wish there were more apprentiships out there.

But the present situation is unsustainable and unfair to the hundreds of thousands of youngsters whose carreer aspirations are being seriously undermined by successive govts shortsighted and ultimately flawed education policies.

:worship: I'm beginning to hate you Nedusa because my knees are getting sore from kneeling in worship. :laugh: Another brilliantly written post.

[kirklancaster]

You ae right, it isn't enough, they should be reduced by at least half in my view, Universities were doing okay when they were only £3,000 a year ,so still near being doubled should be more than ample,despite the Universities croaking.

This is at least a start in the right direction.

However, it is in my view obscene that students at Uni, should come out of that education, (and despite the views of some who always get at students, actually do work really hard in the main for their degrees), with likely debts of more than £25,000 around their necks which are then taken into account when applying for mortgages etc; too.
Just for trying to better themselves.

Get jobs rather than UNi some say, what jobs, a part time job, a zero hours contrac job or another low paid job where in fact in those sort of jobs very little and even no tax would be paid anyway.
It is easy to attack students as being lazy and Uni a waste of time,while others can hold that view it doesn't make it right to brand all students the same.
I do get really annoyed at that since I saw how hard others worked at UNI and how hard and stressful I found it at times too.
Often having to prepare and work all through the night,over my years at UNI,at times to make sure I had everything done and in order.

The fact is this coalition should have never trebled the fees in the first place,with a policy to at least double the fees from one party and the wish to abolish the fees by the other party in the coalition,how the compromise came to actually treble them, is beyond all understanding to me.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Cherie]

It's one of the biggest scams going, create thousands of pointless degree courses after upgrading hundreds of further education colleges to give out these pointless degrees.

So thousands of students who would be better suited to vocational work or professional trades have now got a sub standard degree in media studies from a university nobody has heard of. And they have £30,000 debt as well.

So now unemployed looking for that perfect media job they are sadly disappointed to learn 5,000 other graduates have similar or better degrees and they too are looking for the same job you are after.

So now unable to get your foot on the ladder to success unable to slot into the high powered media position you thought was there , instead saddled with 30 grand of debt you cannot leave your parents house and have to take any job you find.

So McDonald's at this point start to look like a good career move....

This situation is replayed over and over again and is a direct consequence of the shameful exploitation of the higher education system and a misguided or deluded idea that everyone should have a degree and all go to excel in high powered professional careers.

Society doesn't work like that , we can't all be Chiefs there have to be some Indians . A mixture of workers straddling all levels of employment .

Getting an apprentiship and being trained and paid and getting work experience from the start is now a very desirable career choice. I only wish there were more apprentiships out there.

But the present situation is unsustainable and unfair to the hundreds of thousands of youngsters whose carreer aspirations are being seriously undermined by successive govts shortsighted and ultimately flawed education policies.


Great post Nedusa

[jennyjuniper]

Having a university degree can be beneficial, even if you don't actually use the degree you studied for. My daughter and son-in-law both got degrees and worked part time whilst at university. Their employers offered them full time employment as soon as they finished uni AND their pay scale was higher than someone doing the same job, but without the degree.

[armand.kay]

and join the job market 3 years behind in a job that they want experience and not theory?

Most media corded are constantly adapting with the media industry. Also allot of them are heavily practice based (which in my opinion is a lot harder then writing a few essays on social learning theory. All of the ones I've seen also require you to do a certain number of hours of work experience placements. So with a media degree you leave uni trained and prepared for working in the industry.

[kirklancaster]

Most media corded are constantly adapting with the media industry. Also allot of them are heavily practice based (which in my opinion is a lot harder then writing a few essays on social learning theory. All of the ones I've seen also require you to do a certain number of hours of work experience placements. So with a media degree you leave uni trained and prepared for working in the industry.

Is 'Media' your 'bag' Armand?

[Kizzy]

I don't subscribe to a two tier class system, those who can't get in to uni with an AAA shunted to £2ph apprenticeships.
Degree courses are designed not only to educate but inspire, challenge, motivate and shape those who can dedicate 3yrs to them, it's not the easy option.

There are still many who prefer vocational work and have the desired qualifications to commit to the theory work involved in real apprenticeships such as plumber/electrician.

There are also plenty that I feel are getting the bum deal, the ones who have no A-C grade qualifications, who struggle to find anyone to take them on in any role no matter how menial. They are the ones forced into workfare type roles all stick and no carrot,or given what I class as a faux apprenticeship as a 'sandwich technician'. It's never going to lead to a full time position as there are an endless stream of young people to do the same thing for next to nothing... what are their life choices?

[arista]

Most media corded are constantly adapting with the media industry. Also allot of them are heavily practice based (which in my opinion is a lot harder then writing a few essays on social learning theory. All of the ones I've seen also require you to do a certain number of hours of work experience placements. So with a media degree you leave uni trained and prepared for working in the industry.



Sure
I hope I see you on SkyNewsHD4K
later on.


But some others are doing it wrong

[Toy Soldier]

War robots? w..wtf? This thread has taken a surreal turn :joker:

Anyway...


Degree courses are designed not only to educate but inspire, challenge, motivate and shape those who can dedicate 3yrs to them, it's not the easy option.

Totally agree with that, Kizzy. Most people who claim that Uni is an "easy 10 hours a week" or "doesn't involve hard work" are usually people who haven't been to University. Now, whilst it is true that in many courses you can "coast" the first year or two, as with anything, if you want to excel then you have to work very hard to stand out. Just as you would in any job. University is self-driven education, 10 hours of classes could (should) easily translate into a full week once you include time spent writing essays or reports (a good one will take several days work), self-driven study, etc. A lot of students also hold down part-time jobs of 16 - 25 hours per week on top of that. Also, whilst you can coast the first couple of years, for most degrees you will not complete your final year and get a degree worth having (2:1 or above) without putting in the effort.

Are the some students who skip classes, drink all day and generally just mess around? Of course there are, but there are plenty of people who are lazy in their jobs / careers too.

[Jay.]

War robots? w..wtf? This thread has taken a surreal turn :joker:

Anyway...



Totally agree with that, Kizzy. Most people who claim that Uni is an "easy 10 hours a week" or "doesn't involve hard work" are usually people who haven't been to University. Now, whilst it is true that in many courses you can "coast" the first year or two, as with anything, if you want to excel then you have to work very hard to stand out. Just as you would in any job. University is self-driven education, 10 hours of classes could (should) easily translate into a full week once you include time spent writing essays or reports (a good one will take several days work), self-driven study, etc. A lot of students also hold down part-time jobs of 16 - 25 hours per week on top of that. Also, whilst you can coast the first couple of years, for most degrees you will not complete your final year and get a degree worth having (2:1 or above) without putting in the effort.

Are the some students who skip classes, drink all day and generally just mess around? Of course there are, but there are plenty of people who are lazy in their jobs / careers too.

Exactly this. You are expected to more than the minimum. I have 2/3 days a week at uni, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything the rest of the time. And I care for my nan alongside it, so I can't have much of a social life. But I make sure I spend enough time on my work and I'm usually the first in my group to say they've started the work, or to even finish it. There are some people in my class that I've only seen a few times, that is their fault. They are missing out & probably (definitely) won't pass the course.

It's all down to the type of person really. Some excel, some go just for fun. It's easy to see what will pay off in the long term.

[joeysteele]

War robots? w..wtf? This thread has taken a surreal turn :joker:

Anyway...



Totally agree with that, Kizzy. Most people who claim that Uni is an "easy 10 hours a week" or "doesn't involve hard work" are usually people who haven't been to University. Now, whilst it is true that in many courses you can "coast" the first year or two, as with anything, if you want to excel then you have to work very hard to stand out. Just as you would in any job. University is self-driven education, 10 hours of classes could (should) easily translate into a full week once you include time spent writing essays or reports (a good one will take several days work), self-driven study, etc. A lot of students also hold down part-time jobs of 16 - 25 hours per week on top of that. Also, whilst you can coast the first couple of years, for most degrees you will not complete your final year and get a degree worth having (2:1 or above) without putting in the effort.

Are the some students who skip classes, drink all day and generally just mess around? Of course there are, but there are plenty of people who are lazy in their jobs / careers too.



Oh very well said and thank you for doing so.

This thread has just turned into a get at students thread.
Such has been the case since I joined in 2010, because I was a student then,by some when almost every word was criticised and challenged with attempts to belittle.

As you say likely from those who haven't been to University but who make generalisations about all students as if they were 2nd rate citizens.

[armand.kay]

Is 'Media' your 'bag' Armand?
Yeah.
Sure
I hope I see you on SkyNewsHD4K
later on.


Lol thanks :laugh:

[the truth]

University is not a help
Get a Trade first
Work First

agreed. unless you want to be a doctor , id suggest go to work for a few years then decide. then if you study for law degree go for it. but id rather go for a proper full on degree not one of the endless nonsense ones that offer no career

[arista]

agreed. unless you want to be a doctor , id suggest go to work for a few years then decide. then if you study for law degree go for it. but id rather go for a proper full on degree not one of the endless nonsense ones that offer no career


Doctors cost alot to train
then Down Under
nicks them with higher pay

That must stop

[Toy Soldier]

agreed. unless you want to be a doctor , id suggest go to work for a few years then decide. then if you study for law degree go for it. but id rather go for a proper full on degree not one of the endless nonsense ones that offer no career
I personally think that people should study whatever they want, but I do agree that people should take a few years to think about what they want to do, so that they might discover what genuinely interests them. Too many people jump right in straight from school into any old degree... And even the ones who do well and get well paid jobs after university sometimes (too often) discover too late that they lack passion for what they are doing.

I wish I had stuck with computer science instead of ditching it for psychology. I adore tech, I love programming... I can't STAND most human beings :joker:.

If I had been a bit older and wiser I'm convinced I would have a more useful degree and a job that I like (or at least don't actively despise) now. I would still have gone to uni but I'd have been smarter about it, and more committed.

[joeysteele]

I personally think that people should study whatever they want, but I do agree that people should take a few years to think about what they want to do, so that they might discover what genuinely interests them. Too many people jump right in straight from school into any old degree... And even the ones who do well and get well paid jobs after university sometimes (too often) discover too late that they lack passion for what they are doing.

I wish I had stuck with computer science instead of ditching it for psychology. I adore tech, I love programming... I can't STAND most human beings :joker:.

If I had been a bit older and wiser I'm convinced I would have a more useful degree and a job that I like (or at least don't actively despise) now. I would still have gone to uni but I'd have been smarter about it, and more committed.


I can see all the points as to what you say above Toy Soldier.They will work well for some and not so for others I guess.

Speaking for myself however,I went straight Uni with no break after education and now it is all done,I would not have wanted to do it any other way.

I have a choice of 2 careers ahead of me now and I love both.

I am actually now,(because I have prepared for it before anyone jumps in to attack students for going to uni then doing nothing with it),later this year stopping work for a time and taking a few months to myself to firstly relax,then also to decide which career I really want to follow.

I would hate to have done it the other way round myself and just be thinking about Uni say later this year.

[Toy Soldier]

I can see all the points as to what you say above Toy Soldier.They will work well for some and not so for others I guess.

Speaking for myself however,I went straight Uni with no break after education and now it is all done,I would not have wanted to do it any other way.

I have a choice of 2 careers ahead of me now and I love both.

I am actually now,(because I have prepared for it before anyone jumps in to attack students for going to uni then doing nothing with it),later this year stopping work for a time and taking a few months to myself to firstly relax,then also to decide which career I really want to follow.

I would hate to have done it the other way round myself and just be thinking about Uni say later this year.
Some people do obviously have a good idea what they want to do even at school, I know a girl who switched high schools (to my school from another) specifically because hers didn't offer Advanced Higher Biology and she wanted to get into medicine. So it is different for different people. But, many do feel "pushed" into applying by their schools, especially if they have good grades, and just apply for various courses without really knowing what captures their imagination. Drop out rates and first year course switching shouldn't really be as prevalent as it is, I think.

[joeysteele]

Some people do obviously have a good idea what they want to do even at school, I know a girl who switched high schools (to my school from another) specifically because hers didn't offer Advanced Higher Biology and she wanted to get into medicine. So it is different for different people. But, many do feel "pushed" into applying by their schools, especially if they have good grades, and just apply for various courses without really knowing what captures their imagination. Drop out rates and first year course switching shouldn't really be as prevalent as it is, I think.

Yes, they are all strong and very valid points again. I agree.

[arista]

So many that have been at University
are now saying they wasted 2 years.

Get a Trade
stand up strong.

[Marsh.]

Well if THEY wasted 2 years then that's their own fault.

[arista]

Well if THEY wasted 2 years then that's their own fault.


No its the advisers that tell them Uni is best
and Fecking New Labour

[joeysteele]

No its the advisers that tell them Uni is best
and Fecking New Labour

There's no such thing as New Labour now, thank goodness.

Also, some may feel they wasted 2/3 years at Uni, those also who go to Uni then drop out after a year or so also feel probably they wasted that time.

As with most situations as to life, hindsight after the event always makes things seem clearer,or that there should and could have been better ways.
However,to not have done that wasted time would have possibly left other regrets of not trying it at least.

No one is,or ever should be, forced to go to Uni, by politicians or anyone else,although the lack of real opportunities of good jobs now without some degrees,that in the jobs climate now over lots of areas of work, are becoming more and more selective and limited.
University does seem the way forward if you can get there and at least open up a more fighting chance for yourself.

Better to have tried and failed,as the saying goes, that in itself is more life experience and learning.