Irish Printer refuses to print wedding invitations for gay couple

[Niamh.]

Jonathon Brennan (29), from Drogheda, Co Louth, said he was “infuriated and shocked” when the owner of local printers, Beulah Print & Design, told him they would not do business with him because “we don’t agree with homosexuality”.

The salon owner, who will become civil partnered to his boyfriend of eight years, John Kierans (35), in August, said he had been doing business with the printers for four years before the refusal.

Mr Brennan told the Irish Independent: “It came to the time that we were to organise getting our invitations printed for our ceremony. I contacted the printers, because they know me, and they’ve done some work for me before, and I was quite happy with their work.”

He said the co-owner, Noel Tuite, initially agreed to print the invitations, but when he visited Mr Brennan’s salon yesterday afternoon, it became apparent that he had changed his mind.

“He said, ‘Myself and my business partner are devout Christians. We don’t believe in gay marriage, and we don’t agree with homosexuality. So in this instance, there’s a conflict of interest, and we won’t be able to do business with you.’

Read more: 'I support this vote with every fibre of my being' - Colin Farrell kicks off Claire Byrne Live with strong support for same-sex marriage

“I was shocked. I didn’t know what was going to come out of his mouth. He said it would be the same instance if somebody came in and they wanted to get a picture of a nude woman printed. We wouldn’t be able to do that either.

“I said, ‘I wish I had been aware of your conflicts of interest four years ago before I started doing business with you.’ He went to shake my hand, but I wouldn’t shake it, and he left. I was just infuriated by this, and shocked, that this was the attitude from a local businessman. Not in my adult life have I ever experienced anything like this.”

Mr Brennan added: “The gay marriage referendum is coming up, and it’s not an open and shut case. A lot of the younger generation would believe that gay people should be entitled to get married. But not everybody thinks that way. I feel it is important to highlight that.”

This morning Beulah Print released a statement outlining why it took the decision.

It said: We, at Beulah Print, are Bible-believing Christians who are committed to standing by our conscience and God’s Word.

“We have never hidden our faith from our customers and represent the gospel at every opportunity. We are not against homosexuals however, we do not support same sex marriage, which printing wedding invitations would do.

“We believe the love of God is extended to all people and that He has called us all to walk in the light of His word, for He is the way, the truth and the life.”

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gay-couple-infuriated-and-shocked-at-printers-refusal-to-make-civil-ceremony-invitations-31043312.html

[Black Dagger]

Hope he goes out of business

[Niamh.]

Hope he goes out of business

well he's getting a load of ****ty publicity today, all the radio stations are talking about it

[T*]

what a scummy twat
hope karma ****s him up big style

[Crimson Dynamo]

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus, which form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, contain the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."


Paul the Apostle wrote in the First Epistle to the Corinthians,


“ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."


So the printers are correct as Bible believing Christians to abhor homosexuality as it says so it their instruction manual

[Jessica.]

well he's getting a load of ****ty publicity today, all the radio stations are talking about it

I saw a few posts about it on fb already by noon, it's ridiculous, they should just report the business for discrimination and then forget about it. :bored:

[Niamh.]

I saw a few posts about it on fb already by noon, it's ridiculous, they should just report the business for discrimination and then forget about it. :bored:

They're talking about it on 4fm now on the Niall Boylan show

[Jessica.]

They're talking about it on 4fm now on the Niall Boylan show

Typical :joker:

[Niamh.]

Typical :joker:

lol he's slaughtering anyone who's backing the printers up :laugh: He's my guilty pleasure

[Niamh.]

He just asked someone "How do you know Jesus wasn't gay?" :hehe:

[Shaun]

If he wants to lose business then go for it...

[Niamh.]

If he wants to lose business then go for it...

and this guy owns a hairdressers and had been a customer of his for 4 years........idiot

[Jessica.]

He just asked someone "How do you know Jesus wasn't gay?" :hehe:

:joker: he asks the most outrageous questions. Jesus could very well have been gay. He might have been Mary Magdalene's gay best friend.

[Niamh.]

:joker: he asks the most outrageous questions. Jesus could very well have been gay. He might have been Mary Magdalene's gay best friend.

Well he was asking this guy and he said who was he with so, we never saw him with anyone, knowing that he wouldn't say Mary Magdalene because of course the church have to deny that he could have been married to her lol, he said for all you know he could have been secretly meeting up with Judas :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

if I printer refused my business I would say

"dont you take that tone with me"

:fan:

[Jessica.]

Well he was asking this guy and he said who was he with so, we never saw him with anyone, knowing that he wouldn't say Mary Magdalene because of course the church have to deny that he could have been married to her lol, he said for all you know he could have been secretly meeting up with Judas :laugh:

They did have a kiss once or twice, there's proof of that, funny how nobody around them though it was strange. :wink:

[Niamh.]

if I printer refused my business I would say

"dont you take that tone with me"

:fan:

:laugh:

They did have a kiss once or twice, there's proof of that, funny how nobody around them though it was strange. :wink:

There you go then :smug:

[Kizzy]

Religious people ...In Ireland?... nah.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, if his thinking is due to his religious beliefs then he's entitled I guess.

[Niamh.]

Religious people ...In Ireland?... nah.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, if his thinking is due to his religious beliefs then he's entitled I guess.

People in Ireland aren't that religious anymore really, the change in such a short few years has been massive.

What about if his religious beliefs told him that he couldn't do business with black people, would you think he'd still be entitled?

[Livia]

I don't see why someone should get shtick for their religious beliefs. Some of the comments on here are terrible... if they'd been directed at gay people there would, quite rightly, be hell on.

[Niamh.]

I don't see why someone should get shtick for their religious beliefs. Some of the comments on here are terrible... if they'd been directed at gay people there would, quite rightly, be hell on.

I disagree. The man is a disgrace, discriminating against and humiliating that man because of who he chooses to spend his life with.

[Liam-]

As much as it was a ****ty thing for him to do.. in the grand scheme of things, it's his business, so who can choose to serve and not serve whoever he sees fit, his beliefs are his and he's fully entitled to have them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

this is why we have laws however to stop people just making up rules as they see fit

[Kizzy]

People in Ireland aren't that religious anymore really, the change in such a short few years has been massive.

What about if his religious beliefs told him that he couldn't do business with black people, would you think he'd still be entitled?


Does the bible say that, if not it's not really comparable is it?

[Kizzy]

this is why we have laws however to stop people just making up rules as they see fit

We don't have those laws... We have hate laws they have NOTHING to do with religious interpretation.

[Livia]

I disagree. The man is a disgrace, discriminating against and humiliating that man because of who he chooses to spend his life with.

And then the man going off and making a massive issue out of it that could end the bloke's business and put people out of work.

And I say this as someone who believes you should live your life in the happiest way possible, whoever you are, whatever your sexual pursuasian... and whether or not you're a Christian.

[Niamh.]

Does the bible say that, if not it's not really comparable is it?

So basically no you would think discriminating against a black person would be wrong then but gay people are fair game? Interesting :think:

[Niamh.]

And then the man going off and making a massive issue out of it that could end the bloke's business and put people out of work.

And I say this as someone who believes you should live your life in the happiest way possible, whoever you are, whatever your sexual pursuasian... and whether or not you're a Christian.

By telling the truth about how he was treated? That sounds like victim blaming :shrug:

[Livia]

You're only disagreeing with me because I'm Jewish :fist:

[Nedusa]

The printing firm can decide who they do business with, it's as simple as that. It's nobody else's business how they decide on their customers.

Another non story blown up by the "gay brigade"....

[Niamh.]

You're only disagreeing with me because I'm Jewish :fist:

True :idc:

[Kizzy]

So basically no you would think discriminating against a black person would be wrong then but gay people are fair game? Interesting :think:

Nope never said that.

[Niamh.]

The printing firm can decide who they do business with, it's as simple as that. It's nobody else's business how they decide on their customers.

Another non story blown up by the "gay brigade"....

Well maybe not, there are anti discrimination laws over here and this guy had been a customer of his for 4 years already

[Nedusa]

if I printer refused my business I would say

"dont you take that tone with me"

:fan:

:joker::joker:

[Niamh.]

Nope never said that.

You never answered the question I asked though so that was the conclusion I came to from your side stepping

[Livia]

Well maybe not, there are anti discrimination laws over here and this guy had been a customer of his for 4 years already

Do the anti-discrimination laws apply to Christians, or... not.

[Marsh.]

A gay hairdresser?! WTF????? D:

[Kizzy]

The printing firm can decide who they do business with, it's as simple as that. It's nobody else's business how they decide on their customers.

Another non story blown up by the "gay brigade"....

Now this... this is prejudice.

No religious reasoning just an example of pure bigotry.

[Nedusa]

Well maybe not, there are anti discrimination laws over here and this guy had been a customer of his for 4 years already

If they don't want to do business with that person then that is their choice, everything else is just supposition.

You cannot be forced to give work to people because they are Gay...lol

[Niamh.]

Do the anti-discrimination laws apply to Christians, or... not.

Sure but Christians don't have special rules just because they're Christians, they'll have to follow the rules like every other person

[Jessica.]

As I said previously, I don't think such a big deal should have been made about it but it's an extremely ridiculous reason to refuse service and it was probably very upsetting for the couple who were probably very happy to be taking a huge step towards their big day. :sad:

Another thing I don't understand is that I haven't seen anyone stories about people refusing service to people who break other rules the bible says such as don't get tattoos or eat pork. It even says not to drink alcohol in a church. :umm2: Why is the gay stuff the only thing people find so offensive?

[Nedusa]

Now this... this is prejudice.

No religious reasoning just an example of pure bigotry.

Oh for goodness sake get off your Politically correct high horse...

People make choices what they do... and if they don't want to give work to someone for whatever reason that is their choice

Plain and simple

Enough of the bigotry nonsense:nono::nono:

[Niamh.]

As I said previously, I don't think such a big deal should have been made about it but it's an extremely ridiculous reason to refuse service and it was probably very upsetting for the couple who were probably very happy to be taking a huge step towards their big day. :sad:

Another thing I don't understand is that I haven't seen anyone stories about people refusing service to people who break other rules the bible says such as don't get tattoos or eat pork. It even says not to drink alcohol in a church. :umm2: Why is the gay stuff the only thing people find so offensive?

Yep or refusing to do wedding invitations for a woman or man who is divorced

[Livia]

Sure but Christians don't have special rules just because they're Christians, they'll have to follow the rules like every other person

So gay people's rights outweigh Christians' right to religious freedom?

[Jessica.]

So gay people's rights outweigh Christians' right to religious freedom?

If a gay couple had a business and they refused to serve straight people, that would be disgusting behaviour as well.

[Marsh.]

As I said previously, I don't think such a big deal should have been made about it but it's an extremely ridiculous reason to refuse service and it was probably very upsetting for the couple who were probably very happy to be taking a huge step towards their big day. :sad:

Another thing I don't understand is that I haven't seen anyone stories about people refusing service to people who break other rules the bible says such as don't get tattoos or eat pork. It even says not to drink alcohol in a church. :umm2: Why is the gay stuff the only thing people find so offensive?

Not drinking alcohol in church isn't really the same thing. :joker:

It's like saying a library wants you to be quiet..... throughout your life.

[Jessica.]

Not drinking alcohol in church isn't really the same thing. :joker:

It's like saying a library wants you to be quiet..... throughout your life.

Well who decides what to ignore and what not to? :umm2: I just don't understand it.

[Marsh.]

Yep or refusing to do wedding invitations for a woman or man who is divorced

Do they normally include that on the invitations?

"You are cordially invited to Alicia Jenkins' fifth wedding in 10 years"

:hehe:

[Marsh.]

Well who decides what to ignore and what not to? :umm2: I just don't understand it.

Well not drinking in church =/= never drink alcohol.

Just as if I didn't allow people to wear shoes in my house on my lovely carpet doesn't mean I don't agree with shoes. :joker:

[Niamh.]

So gay people's rights outweigh Christians' right to religious freedom?

I believe so in this circumstance yeah. I mean, anyone can start a religion and say X, Y and Z is against my religion, so I think sticking to Human rights trumping religious rights is a good plan. There's plenty of stuff that came out of the Bible that religions have dropped already because it's so out of step with modern society already.

[Jessica.]

Well not drinking in church =/= never drink alcohol.

Just as if I didn't allow people to wear shoes in my house on my lovely carpet doesn't mean I don't agree with shoes. :joker:

But people drink in church all the time Morsh, the priests have wine to represent Jesus' blood.

[Livia]

If a gay couple had a business and they refused to serve straight people, that would be disgusting behaviour as well.

That's not the same thing Jess at all, Jess!

[Marsh.]

But people drink in church all the time Morsh, the priests have wine to represent Jesus' blood.

So where did you get the "no alcohol" rule from? Your arse?

[Crimson Dynamo]

would the christian printer have to have gay sex with the couple?

if so then I am with the printer here, sorry


I know that the gays are keen for new members but that is too far



(perhaps a handjob if it were a big order)

[Livia]

I believe so in this circumstance yeah. I mean, anyone can start a religion and say X, Y and Z is against my religion, so I think sticking to Human rights trumping religious rights is a good plan. There's plenty of stuff that came out of the Bible that religions have dropped already because it's so out of step with modern society already.

Can't they just live and let live, respect each other's beliefs and lifestyle and not burden the rest of us with a storm in a teacup, hmmm?

[Livia]

would the christian printer have to have gay sex with the couple?

if so then I am with the printer here, sorry


I know that the gays are keen for new members but that is too far



(perhaps a handjob if it were a big order)

LOL... you're an arse, LT.

[Nedusa]

would the christian printer have to have gay sex with the couple?

if so then I am with the printer here, sorry


I know that the gays are keen for new members but that is too far



(perhaps a handjob if it were a big order)


How heavy is that fcuking Dog in your Avatar picture......:shocked::shocked:

[Jessica.]

So where did you get the "no alcohol" rule from? Your arse?

Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die.”

[Niamh.]

Can't they just live and let live, respect each other's beliefs and lifestyle and not burden the rest of us with a storm in a teacup, hmmm?

It probably doesn't feel like such a storm in a tea cup to that couple :shrug:

[Niamh.]

Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die.”

Don't be silly, no ones going to fit in the tabernacle Jess :nono:

[Kizzy]

If a gay couple had a business and they refused to serve straight people, that would be disgusting behaviour as well.

That would be personal and nothing to do with religious observance though.

[Jessica.]

Don't be silly, no ones going to fit in the tabernacle Jess :nono:

:joker: Back then the tabernacle was basically a pop-up church, silly.

[Nedusa]

It probably doesn't feel like such a storm in a tea cup to that couple :shrug:

Oh for Goodness sake.........not everyone likes Gay people or Gay marriage etc, especially if they are religious and are brainwashed by traditional religious dogma.

Some people are never going to welcome gay people with open arms.

[Mokka]

Similar case in the states:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/02/bakery-same-sex-oregon-fined-wedding-cake/22771685/

Bakery owners end up losing their business and will be paying a hefty fine for their "religious stance"

Was it worth it?

[Jessica.]

Oh for Goodness sake.........not everyone likes Gay people or Gay marriage etc, especially if they are religious and are brainwashed by traditional religious dogma.

Some people are never going to welcome gay people with open arms.

Nobody is asking anybody to like gay people or gay lifestyle. :umm2: All they have to do is stop being discriminatory to potential customers.

[Niamh.]

That would be personal and nothing to do with religious observance though.

What if a person started up a religion where that was one of the rules, would it be ok then?

[Livia]

It probably doesn't feel like such a storm in a tea cup to that couple :shrug:

If it's tainted their life to such an extent, then they really need a reality check. Unless there's only one printer in Ireland. You could offer to do them on your computer, Niamh! If you do I want 10% for bringing the business in.

[Nedusa]

Nobody is asking anybody to like gay people or gay lifestyle. :umm2: All they have to do is stop being discriminatory to potential customers.

Hang on a minute.........surely if they don't agree with Gay Marriage their actions in refusing to give work to this man will always be viewed as discriminatory.........

[Niamh.]

Oh for Goodness sake.........not everyone likes Gay people or Gay marriage etc, especially if they are religious and are brainwashed by traditional religious dogma.

Some people are never going to welcome gay people with open arms.

Oh for Goodness sake.........not everyone likes Black people or Black to white marriage etc, especially if they are religious and are brainwashed by traditional religious dogma.

Some people are never going to welcome Black people with open arms

sound different now?

[Kizzy]

What if a person started up a religion where that was one of the rules, would it be ok then?

Reaching a bit here Niamh... I was referring to the established churches in Ireland at the moment, I'm not discussing hypothetical religion.

[Livia]

The thing that really aggravates me about these stories is... and this isn't going to be popular... but if that couple had gone to a Muslim printer and he's refused them, I think most people would have said well, fair enough then...

[Nedusa]

Oh for Goodness sake.........not everyone likes Black people or Black to white marriage etc, especially if they are religious and are brainwashed by traditional religious dogma.

Some people are never going to welcome Black people with open arms

sound different now?

What's your point............???

[Niamh.]

If it's tainted their life to such an extent, then they really need a reality check. Unless there's only one printer in Ireland. You could offer to do them on your computer, Niamh! If you do I want 10% for bringing the business in.

Nivia Printers, I like it :hehe:

[JoshBB]

As much as it was a ****ty thing for him to do.. in the grand scheme of things, it's his business, so who can choose to serve and not serve whoever he sees fit, his beliefs are his and he's fully entitled to have them.

I agree with this entirely.

[Ninastar]

The thing that really aggravates me about these stories is... and this isn't going to be popular... but if that couple had gone to a Muslim printer and he's refused them, I think most people would have said well, fair enough then...

if this was the case, it wouldn't even reach the media/social websites etc etc

the main reason people are so bothered about it is because they can bitch about christians

[Niamh.]

Reaching a bit here Niamh... I was referring to the established churches in Ireland at the moment, I'm not discussing hypothetical religion.

Not really, if the precedent is set for people to discriminate as long as they're part of a religion, what's to stop people from starting up religions with any "rules" they want?

[Jessica.]

The thing that really aggravates me about these stories is... and this isn't going to be popular... but if that couple had gone to a Muslim printer and he's refused them, I think most people would have said well, fair enough then...

That's the exact same situation though. :umm2: What's the different between a Catholic homophobe and a Muslim homophobe?

[Cherie]

If it goes against his Christian beliefs why should he be forced into it, we can't have "freedom of speech and expression" if only one side is heard, just go somewhere else and stop creating a drama out of it :idc:

[Livia]

Nivia Printers, I like it :hehe:

And Nivia means snow white in Latin, which is pretty. Well, Nivea, but it's close.

[JoshBB]

That's the exact same situation though. :umm2: What's the different between a Catholic homophobe and a Muslim homophobe?

Yes exactly. I bet you wont see britain first moaning about this.

[Cherie]

That's the exact same situation though. :umm2: What's the different between a Catholic homophobe and a Muslim homophobe?

So this guy is a homophobe because he want to follow his Christian beliefs, what does that make the gay couple then?

[Livia]

That's the exact same situation though. :umm2: What's the different between a Catholic homophobe and a Muslim homophobe?

Public perception.

[Niamh.]

The thing that really aggravates me about these stories is... and this isn't going to be popular... but if that couple had gone to a Muslim printer and he's refused them, I think most people would have said well, fair enough then...

if this was the case, it wouldn't even reach the media/social websites etc etc

the main reason people are so bothered about it is because they can bitch about christians

Oh come on, we had a story here just yesterday about a gay man being thrown off a roof for being gay........ I haven't actually heard a story similar to this one in Ireland, if I did I would post about that too :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

And Nivia means snow white in Latin, which is pretty. Well, Nivea, but it's close.

Snow White Printers?

do they do discounts on the letter K if used 3 times?

[Niamh.]

And Nivia means snow white in Latin, which is pretty. Well, Nivea, but it's close.

Oh that's racist :fist: we're out of business already :hehe:

[Livia]

Oh come on, we had a story here just yesterday about a gay man being thrown off a roof for being gay........ I haven't actually heard a story similar to this one in Ireland, if I did I would post about that too :shrug:

We're not talking about throwing people off roofs, we're talking about a service being refused and the perception of people's religious beliefs being valid or invalid.

Snow White Printers?

do they do discounts on the letter K if used 3 times?

No, no discounts. And no cheques or credit.

[Kizzy]

Oh for goodness sake get off your Politically correct high horse...

People make choices what they do... and if they don't want to give work to someone for whatever reason that is their choice

Plain and simple

Enough of the bigotry nonsense:nono::nono:

Whatever twisted perception anyone has is of no concern to me, this relates to religion, political correctness does come into it as here politics and religion clash...
As much as I an against religion if that's how someone lives their life I'm for that, not sure if you noticed that.

[Livia]

Oh that's racist :fist: we're out of business already :hehe:

LOL... I was thinking of the fairy tale, honest I was.

[Jessica.]

So this guy is a homophobe because he want to follow his Christian beliefs, what does that make the gay couple then?

Yes, everyone who feels an aversion to homosexuality is homophobic, I don't believe homophobia is a strong word though, there are all kinds of homophobes and I'm sure most don't vocalise their dislike so that doesn't bother me as long as nobody is being discriminated.

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.

[Niamh.]

We're not talking about throwing people off roofs, we're talking about a service being refused and the perception of people's religious beliefs being valid or invalid.



No, no discounts. And no cheques or credit.

Ok, that's the only story I've heard recently though with regards to Muslims and gay people and it's a hell of alot worse than this one here :laugh:

If there was a story similar to this one but with a Muslim business I would also post it :P I imagine there's a hell of a lot less Muslim run printers in Ireland then there are Christian ones though so i wouldn't hold my breath!

[Kyle]

if this was the case, it wouldn't even reach the media/social websites etc etc

the main reason people are so bothered about it is because they can bitch about christians

A homosexual is denied a service on the single basis of a persons personal beliefs that their sexuality is 'wrong' and you somehow flip this into an attack on Christians.

[Kizzy]

Not really, if the precedent is set for people to discriminate as long as they're part of a religion, what's to stop people from starting up religions with any "rules" they want?

It wouldn't be part of a long standing religious doctrine stretching back through generations and written thousands of years ago.
Anything with views like this wouldn't get off the ground in the modern day.

[Livia]

Ok, that's the only story I've heard recently though with regards to Muslims and gay people and it's a hell of alot worse than this one here :laugh:

If there was a story similar to this one but with a Muslim business I would also post it :P I imagine there's a hell of a lot less Muslim run printers in Ireland then there are Christian ones though so i wouldn't hold my breath!

Look, if I'm not winning this argument, I insist on wrestling for it.

[Niamh.]

It wouldn't be part of a long standing religious doctrine stretching back through generations and written thousands of years ago.
Anything with views like this wouldn't get off the ground in the modern day.

Exactly.

[Jessica.]

Look, if I'm not winning this argument, I insist on wrestling for it.

Why did my brain automatically turn that into an image of mud wrestling? :bawling:

[Niamh.]

Look, if I'm not winning this argument, I insist on wrestling for it.

no -scared-

[Cherie]

Yes, everyone who feels an aversion to homosexuality is homophobic, I don't believe homophobia is a strong word though, there are all kinds of homophobes and I'm sure most don't vocalise their dislike so that doesn't bother me as long as nobody is being discriminated.

But they are following the teaching of their religion, it doesn't automatically follow that they have negative attitudes to gays! Just that perhaps they like to stick to the code laid down by their religion.

[Niamh.]

Why did my brain automatically turn that into an image of mud wrestling? :bawling:

It's all this gay talk Jess, messing with your mind. 10 Hail Marys and an Our father

[Marsh.]

:joker: Back then the tabernacle was basically a pop-up church, silly.

Emphasis on "back then..."

[Nedusa]

Whatever twisted perception anyone has is of no concern to me, this relates to religion, political correctness does come into it as here politics and religion clash...
As much as I an against religion if that's how someone lives their life I'm for that, not sure if you noticed that.

Yes.....I know that

I guess what I'm saying is although I don't agree with the Printer's reasons for not giving work to this person, I have to accept that the printer has the final say in who he gives work to and if through some outdated misguided religious dogma he feels unable to associate with Gay people then that is his problem.

But to try and publicize and call for his business to be ruined or for him to face some kind of legal redress for holding these religious views is also wrong.

You cannot force someone to take an unfamiliar or alien view only educate them so they realise their traditional view is unfair,unjust and has no place in the modern World.

[Jessica.]

But they are following the teaching of their religion, it doesn't automatically follow that they have negative attitudes to gays! Just that perhaps they like to stick to the code laid down by their religion.

Well I didn't want to put it so bluntly but it has come to that. Religion is belief, homosexuality is fact, if these people don't believe that these people should be allowed to love each other or find each other attractive then they fit into a category with other people who think like them. I haven't said anything bad about homophobia, I just said that these people are homophobic.

[Kizzy]

Exactly.

Exactly what? ... :laugh: you're hypothetical modern religion analogy proves nothing.
It has nothing to do with this as the onus is on established religious beliefs, they cannot be changed along with cultural norms.
He hasn't incited any hatred or made public his view it was his own personal interpretation of text. If we seek to change what would that entail?

[Livia]

Why did my brain automatically turn that into an image of mud wrestling? :bawling:

Just the track your brain takes, Jess, I guess.

[Niamh.]

Exactly what? ... :laugh: you're hypothetical modern religion analogy proves nothing.
It has nothing to do with this as the onus is on established religious beliefs, they cannot be changed along with cultural norms.
He hasn't incited any hatred or made public his view it was his own personal interpretation of text. If we seek to change what would that entail?

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes? :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Yes.....I know that

I guess what I'm saying is although I don't agree with the Printer's reasons for not giving work to this person, I have to accept that the printer has the final say in who he gives work to and if through some outdated misguided religious dogma he feels unable to associate with Gay people then that is his problem.

But to try and publicize and call for his business to be ruined or for him to face some kind of legal redress for holding these religious views is also wrong.

You cannot force someone to take an unfamiliar or alien view only educate them so they realise their traditional view is unfair,unjust and has no place in the modern World.

So you don't agree that he shouldn't do the work on religious grounds but on the basis that he just dislikes homosexuals it's ok?
I don't think I subscribe to that, and you would have to have been living in a cave for the last 20yrs to not know that cultural norms relating to homosexuality have moved on.

[Nedusa]

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes? :laugh:

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

[Cherie]

Nobody said the guy who wouldn't let Rhianna get her knockers out in a video on his farm had a negative attitude towards women, it just didn't fit with his values, and that was the end of it.

[Kizzy]

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes? :laugh:

We can't change what was written thousands of years ago.
You could suggest the bible is hate propaganda and call for it to be burned... good luck with that.

[Jessica.]

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

:umm2: That doesn't make sense at all, I'm sure there are plenty of homophobic atheists and if the printers were atheists and refused to print the invitations for this couple, I'm sure the couple would still feel discriminated against. :shrug:

[Nedusa]

So you don't agree that he shouldn't do the work on religious grounds but on the basis that he just dislikes homosexuals it's ok?
I don't think I subscribe to that, and you would have to have been living in a cave for the last 20yrs to not know that cultural norms relating to homosexuality have moved on.

Er....No I'm not saying that at all

Read my post again, I can't make it any simpler to understand.

[Nedusa]

:umm2: That doesn't make sense at all, I'm sure there are plenty of homophobic atheists and if the printers were atheists and refused to print the invitations for this couple, I'm sure the couple would still feel discriminated against. :shrug:

It wasn't supposed to..........

[Niamh.]

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

And it would be completely wrong, just like this is

Nobody said the guy who wouldn't let Rhianna get her knockers out in a video on his farm had a negative attitude towards women, it just didn't fit with his values, and that was the end of it.

I don't really think they're comparable :laugh:

We can't change what was written thousands of years ago.
You could suggest the bible is hate propaganda and call for it to be burned... good luck with that.

Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Er....No I'm not saying that at all

Read my post again, I can't make it any simpler to understand.

Then explain 'traditional view' to me... I don't understand this term.

[Kizzy]

Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments :shrug:

There are hate laws in place to prohibit inciting discrimination via any means, what has this to do with personal views?

[Niamh.]

There are hate laws in place to prohibit inciting discrimination via any means, what has this to do with personal views?

You've actually lost me now Kizzy.

[Cherie]

And it would be completely wrong, just like this is



I don't really think they're comparable :laugh:



Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments :shrug:

Why are they not comparable? The farmer exercised his rights to do as he felt and believed on his property, the printer is doing the same, is he not being discriminated against for his beliefs?

[Kizzy]

You've actually lost me now Kizzy.

You said it shouldn't be tolerated by government, they aren't.
But until we get rid of all churches and have thought police individuals with religious views can think as they like.

[Niamh.]

Why are they not comparable? The farmer exercised his rights to do as he felt and believed on his property, the printer is doing the same, is he not being discriminated against for his beliefs?

There's a difference between stripping off on someones property and refusing to work with a person because they are a stripper

You said it shouldn't be tolerated by government, they aren't.
But until we get rid of all churches and have thought police individuals with religious views can think as they like.

Sure they can think what they like lol, when did I ever say they couldn't?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;7627049]There's a difference between stripping off on someones property and refusing to work with a person because they are a stripper

:suspect:

[Kizzy]

Sure they can think what they like lol, when did I ever say they couldn't?

Based on those thoughts they can offer their services....or not.
That is the crux of the problem isn't it?

[Niamh.]

Based on those thoughts they can offer their services....or not.
That is the crux of the problem isn't it?

Well no they shouldn't be allowed discriminate because of their homophobic thoughts :laugh:

[Nedusa]

Then explain 'traditional view' to me... I don't understand this term.

I have read my post again and yes the word "traditional" is not needed in the context of what I am saying.

So read again but omit the word traditional

Cheers.............:wavey:

[Kizzy]

Well no they shouldn't be allowed discriminate because of their homophobic thoughts :laugh:

You just contradicted yourself, you said people with religious views can think what they like.. and now they can't as they'll be labeled homophobic. :conf:

[Kizzy]

I have read my post again and yes the word "traditional" is not needed in the context of what I am saying.

So read again but omit the word traditional

Cheers.............:wavey:

No, I won't bother I think I got the measure of it the first time.

[Niamh.]

You just contradicted yourself, you said people with religious views can think what they like.. and now they can't as they'll be labeled homophobic. :conf:

How is that contradictory? They can think what they like obviously it's their own heads lol that doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't homophobic :shrug:

[Nedusa]

No, I won't bother I think I got the measure of it the first time.

OK............glad we sorted that out :spin:

[Kizzy]

How is that contradictory? They can think what they like obviously it's their own heads lol that doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't homophobic :shrug:

I think it's a given that you feel that his religious interpretation is homophobic, the fact is he's done nothing illegal it's his view and his right to work for who he likes based on this.
In effect he's done nothing wrong.

[Tom4784]

Discrimination is discrimination, It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Religion is not an excuse, it's an optional belief system. If you choose to believe that being gay is wrong then you are a bigot, people who use religion to justify their ****ty views and attitudes deserve what they'll get.

[Niamh.]

I think it's a given that you feel that his religious interpretation is homophobic, the fact is he's done nothing illegal it's his view and his right to work for who he likes based on this.
In effect he's done nothing wrong.

But he has done something illegal according to Irish law imo

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Equality_FAQ
1. What discrimination is unlawful under Irish equality legislation?

Irish equality legislation prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services, on any of the following nine grounds - gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

Discrimination in the area of employment is prohibited by the Employment Equality Acts 1998 and 2004. The Acts cover all aspects of work including recruitment and promotion, the right to equal pay, conditions of employment, training or experience. If you are an employee, or trying to get a job and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts.

Discrimination outside the workplace is prohibited by the Equal Status Acts 2000 to 2004. If you are trying to access goods or services and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts. They cover many different goods and services, including access to a place, facilities for banking, entertainment, cultural activities or transport, professional or trade services, health services, access to education and accommodation.

The Equality Authority is tasked with providing information and advice to any person who feels that he or she has been discriminated against on any of the grounds covered in the equality legislation, whether in an employment or non-employment area.

[Iceman]

Discrimination is discrimination, It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Religion is not an excuse, it's an optional belief system. If you choose to believe that being gay is wrong then you are a bigot, people who use religion to justify their ****ty views and attitudes deserve what they'll get.

:clap2:

[T*]

Discrimination is discrimination, It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Religion is not an excuse, it's an optional belief system. If you choose to believe that being gay is wrong then you are a bigot, people who use religion to justify their ****ty views and attitudes deserve what they'll get.

:worship: :clap2:

[Kizzy]

But he has done something illegal according to Irish law imo

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Equality_FAQ
1. What discrimination is unlawful under Irish equality legislation?

Irish equality legislation prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services, on any of the following nine grounds - gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

Discrimination in the area of employment is prohibited by the Employment Equality Acts 1998 and 2004. The Acts cover all aspects of work including recruitment and promotion, the right to equal pay, conditions of employment, training or experience. If you are an employee, or trying to get a job and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts.

Discrimination outside the workplace is prohibited by the Equal Status Acts 2000 to 2004. If you are trying to access goods or services and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts. They cover many different goods and services, including access to a place, facilities for banking, entertainment, cultural activities or transport, professional or trade services, health services, access to education and accommodation.

The Equality Authority is tasked with providing information and advice to any person who feels that he or she has been discriminated against on any of the grounds covered in the equality legislation, whether in an employment or non-employment area.

Depends on whether you view sexual orientation or religious belief as a motivating factor....

[Niamh.]

Depends on whether you view sexual orientation or religious belief as a motivating factor....

Well not really, the law says prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services the only person who was refused a service was the gay man who was told by the printer that it was because he was gay, seems quite clear to me :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Discrimination is discrimination, It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Religion is not an excuse, it's an optional belief system. If you choose to believe that being gay is wrong then you are a bigot, people who use religion to justify their ****ty views and attitudes deserve what they'll get.

quite right

they are using their interpretation of a book they think gives them some sort of status in life to hate on others

[Jessica.]

bwoty is hard to say :omgno:

[Kizzy]

Well not really, the law says prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services the only person who was refused a service was the gay man who was told by the printer that it was because he was gay, seems quite clear to me :shrug:

Well yes really, I'm sure that would refer to a third party and not as it's you personally that is the service, and your religious beliefs that create the issue.
I can't see it as that black or white.

[Niamh.]

Well yes really, I'm sure that would refer to a third party and not as it's you personally that is the service, and your religious beliefs that create the issue.
I can't see it as that black or white.

How do you mean a third party?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article31043536.ece/8bc13/ALTERNATES/w620/John%20Kierans%201%20Jonathon%20_2.jpg

[Marsh.]

Why is he marrying his dad? :worry:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why is he marrying his dad? :worry:

stephen fry teas

[Kizzy]

How do you mean a third party?

I mean anyone providing the services of someone else for someone else.

[Niamh.]

I mean anyone providing the services of someone else for someone else.


Providing the services of some one else for someone else? Like how? Could you give me an example? It seemed pretty clear to me that a business (like this printers) couldn't refuse their services to a person based on their sexuality ( like this guy)

[Glenn.]

We, at Beulah Print, are Bible-believing Christians who are committed to standing by our conscience and God’s Word.

“We have never hidden our faith from our customers and represent the gospel at every opportunity. We are not against homosexuals however, we do not support same sex marriage, which printing wedding invitations would do.

“We believe the love of God is extended to all people and that He has called us all to walk in the light of His word, for He is the way, the truth and the life.”

Crap like this is the reason we have war in the world.

[Tom4784]

Crap like this is the reason we have war in the world.

'We're not homophobic, we just don't want the gays to have equal rights.'

[T*]

this is disgusting
i can't believe this is being defended by people going 'they're just sticking to their religion, thats all!!!!1' when if this happened to someone because, say, their skin colour or nationality there would be more massive outrage

[T*]

'We're not homophobic, we just don't want the gays to have equal rights.'

:clap2:

[Kizzy]

Providing the services of some one else for someone else? Like how? Could you give me an example? It seemed pretty clear to me that a business (like this printers) couldn't refuse their services to a person based on their sexuality ( like this guy)

I mean if you were a company representative for example.

[Glenn.]

I've just read the first few pages of this and I can't believe people are defending it.

[Niamh.]

I mean if you were a company representative for example.


And what makes you think that's what the law was referring to?

[Kizzy]

And what makes you think that's what the law was referring to?

You asked for an example and I gave one.

As religious observance is the reason as stated I feel it would be harder to enforce any law seeing as that is also protected under the same law.

[Kyle]

this is disgusting
i can't believe this is being defended by people going 'they're just sticking to their religion, thats all!!!!1' when if this happened to someone because, say, their skin colour or nationality there would be more massive outrage

The Confederacy pointed to the bible to justify slavery. These will know doubt have justified themselves in a similar way.

Hiding behind 'sincerely held religious beliefs' doesn't wash for me as an excuse to discriminate.

[Niamh.]

You asked for an example and I gave one.

As religious observance is the reason as stated I feel it would be harder to enforce any law seeing as that is also protected under the same law.

It's not protected under the same law. If it was a company refusing to do business with a person because of their religion then it would be covered but not whenit's the religous person doing the discriminating. It doesn't say discriminating against gay people is ok if you're a Christian/Muslim in brackets

[Kizzy]

It's not protected under the same law. If it was a company refusing to do business with a person because of their religion then it would be covered but not whenit's the religous person doing the discriminating. It doesn't say discriminating against gay people is ok if you're a Christian/Muslim in brackets

That may be the case, we shall see..
If he the person felt that gay marriage was against his religious principles then that's fair enough but if he the business is against it that might be seen as a separate issue.

[the truth]

who gives a sh*t if he doesn't want to , its up to him , end of chat

[Niamh.]

That may be the case, we shall see..
If he the person felt that gay marriage was against his religious principles then that's fair enough but if he the business is against it that might be seen as a separate issue.

well, in their statement they say "We, at bealuh print are bible believing Christians" that sounds like it's the business who are taking this stance :shrug:

[Niamh.]

who gives a sh*t if he doesn't want to , its up to him , end of chat

Not if he's breaking the law......

[Kizzy]

well, in their statement they say "We, at bealuh print are bible believing Christians" that sounds like it's the business who are taking this stance :shrug:

It does, well we'll see if there's a prosecution.
Where is the statement from them?

[JoshBB]

In all honesty though I find it disgusting how these kind of mindsets exist in 2015.

[Niamh.]

It does, well we'll see if there's a prosecution.
Where is the statement from them?

It's in the OP at the end

[Kizzy]

Ah yes thought I'd seen it here somewhere.

[Nedusa]

Not if he's breaking the law......

You keep saying it's against the law but to be honest the law is unenforceable because as this story proves , we have choice and our choices may be based on prejudices or even illegal prejudices but they are our choices none the less.

So this printer has the choice to decide who he gives this work to, and he can base that decision on any reasoning or set of wierd prejudices he sees fit, it is entirely up to him. He is giving out this work therefore he gets to decide.

Simple as that....... End of debate

[Niamh.]

You keep saying it's against the law but to be honest the law is unenforceable because as this story proves , we have choice and our choices may be based on prejudices or even illegal prejudices but they are our choices none the less.

So this printer has the choice to decide who he gives this work to, and he can base that decision on any reasoning or set of wierd prejudices he sees fit, it is entirely up to him. He is giving out this work therefore he gets to decide.

Simple as that....... End of debate

but it is against the law to discriminate against someone because of their sexual orientation. I posted the wording of the law a few posts back :shrug:

[Benjamin]

I don't see the problem with the printers refusal. He wasn't rude about it, it's his beliefs, even if they are not mine or others. It's his business at the end of the day and if he wants to lose business by being like that then hey, that is his loss. I don't see why this is a news story to be quite honest.

[Nedusa]

but it is against the law to discriminate against someone because of their sexual orientation. I posted the wording of the law a few posts back :shrug:

Oh my God...... I know I agree the law is there and it is trying to stop assholes like this man discriminating in this case on the grounds of sexual orientation. But as I said it is unenforceable as this mans reasons for giving out this work are based on his own personal reasoning however warped that may be.

As this man stated his reasons for not giving out this work then for this reason the law may be able to be applied and this Printer may be shown the red card.

Ps - Niamh why are you still working , must be a very long day for you :wavey:

[Niamh.]

Oh my God...... I know I agree the law is there and it is trying to stop assholes like this man discriminating in this case on the grounds of sexual orientation. But as I said it is unenforceable as this mans reasons for giving out this work are based on his own personal reasoning however warped that may be.

As this man stated his reasons for not giving out this work then for this reason the law may be able to be applied and this Printer may be shown the red card.

Ps - Niamh why are you still working , must be a very long day for you :wavey:

lol I'm at home, I'm not still at work :laugh:

[empire]

the thing is, the church is part of irish culture, and its been like that for a long time,

[the truth]

Not if he's breaking the law......

its not and if these easily offended idiots want to take it to court theyd get laughed out of court

[Glenn.]

its not and if these easily offended idiots want to take it to court theyd get laughed out of court

Such a lovely use of words as ever.

[T*]

its not and if these easily offended idiots want to take it to court theyd get laughed out of court

yeah about that
im sure hate crime/discrimination isnt laughed out of court :umm2:

[the truth]

yeah about that
im sure hate crime/discrimination isnt laughed out of court :umm2:

its hate crime youre lying

[Northern Monkey]

Hmm.I think some people are getting confused.He's not refusing the gay mans custom,He's just refusing to do that one job because it goes against his religion.He's taken this guys custom for 4 years already so has served him atleast 1-2 times before.He also said he would refuse to print nudey pics of women as that goes against his beliefs too.
He's not saying 'I won't serve you because you're gay' because he's served this man before,Infact for 4 years.He's saying he can't print out invs for a same sex marriage because it goes against his religion just as pics of naked women would too.

[Northern Monkey]

The thing that really aggravates me about these stories is... and this isn't going to be popular... but if that couple had gone to a Muslim printer and he's refused them, I think most people would have said well, fair enough then...

Exactly :clap1: Christians should have atleast the same rights as muslims.But this couple would'nt have gone to a muslim printers because they know the answer they'd get and they'd probably accept it easier because they're muslim.

[Cherie]

I don't see the problem with the printers refusal. He wasn't rude about it, it's his beliefs, even if they are not mine or others. It's his business at the end of the day and if he wants to lose business by being like that then hey, that is his loss. I don't see why this is a news story to be quite honest.

Have you ever listened to Irish radio, the presenters love the sound of their own voice, and people love phoning in to have a whinge.

[Niamh.]

the thing is, the church is part of irish culture, and its been like that for a long time,

The same kind of thing happened in England, this sort of thing doesn't happen regularly over here I can assure you

[Kizzy]

* really want's to post the 'down with this sorta ting' gif *

[Niamh.]

Exactly :clap1: Christians should have atleast the same rights as muslims.But this couple would'nt have gone to a muslim printers because they know the answer they'd get and they'd probably accept it easier because they're muslim.

I don't think there are very many Muslim printers over here tbqh, I work in a business that deal with alot of printers around the country for the last 15 years and so far I haven't come across one :shrug:

[Niamh.]

* really want's to post the 'down with this sorta ting' gif *

http://i.imgur.com/NZQv5MJ.gif

[Livia]

I don't think there are very many Muslim printers over here tbqh, I work in a business that deal with alot of printers around the country for the last 15 years and so far I haven't come across one :shrug:

But let's say hypothetically that there was. And there will be at some point.... would it be wrong for him to refuse to print wedding invitations for a gay couple based on his strong religious beliefs, even though he'd served them with other things previously?

[Glenn.]

Where did my post go?

[Niamh.]

But let's say hypothetically that there was. And there will be at some point.... would it be wrong for him to refuse to print wedding invitations for a gay couple based on his strong religious beliefs, even though he'd served them with other things previously?

Of course it would. Why would I make an exception for Muslims?

[Kizzy]

http://i.imgur.com/NZQv5MJ.gif

* reports Niamh for posting gifs in SD *

[Niamh.]

* reports Niamh for posting gifs in SD *

:hehe:

whoops

[Livia]

Of course it would. Why would I make an exception for Muslims?

Because there'd be a outcry! Lots of middle-class white people would be incensed you'd expected a Muslin to go against his beliefs!

Morning Niamh, by the way...

[Niamh.]

Because there'd be a outcry! Lots of middle-class white people would be incensed you'd expected a Muslin to go against his beliefs!

Morning Niamh, by the way...

Morning :love:

I know you're right of course, there would probably alot of people defending Muslims that condemn Christians for the same thing, of course you'd also have the other extreme of people taking a harder pop because they're Muslims as well. For me personally, I would feel the same no matter what religion it was, discrimination is discrimination :shrug:

[Livia]

Morning :love:

I know you're right of course, there would probably alot of people defending Muslims that condemn Christians for the same thing, of course you'd also have the other extreme of people taking a harder pop because they're Muslims as well. For me personally, I would feel the same no matter what religion it was, discrimination is discrimination :shrug:

I've played Devil's Advocate for much of this thread... of course if you're offering a service you have to be willing to offer a full service to everyone. When I lived in London I had a corner shop run by a Muslim who sold alcohol and ham...

[Kizzy]

It would still be against the law then I presume?

[Niamh.]

I've played Devil's Advocate for much of this thread... of course if you're offering a service you have to be willing to offer a full service to everyone. When I lived in London I had a corner shop run by a Muslim who sold alcohol and ham...

Well there you go lol, it just seems that it's always the gay agenda that some religions seem to take the most strong "stand" against

[Livia]

Well there you go lol, it just seems that it's always the gay agenda that some religions seem to take the most strong "stand" against

I suppose gays are the new kids on the block when it comes to rights. In the future it'll be unthinkable that anyone could be discriminated against for falling in love and wanting to marry.

[Niamh.]

I suppose gays are the new kids on the block when it comes to rights. In the future it'll be unthinkable that anyone could be discriminated against for falling in love and wanting to marry.

Lets hope so

[lostalex]

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus, which form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, contain the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."


Paul the Apostle wrote in the First Epistle to the Corinthians,


“ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."


So the printers are correct as Bible believing Christians to abhor homosexuality as it says so it their instruction manual

no they are not correct, the quotes you gave said that men shall not lie with a man as he does with a woman. gay men don't lie with women at all, so they don't lie with men as they do with women.

The bible is only against bisexuality, not homosexuality. and it says nothing about lesbianism.

[Crimson Dynamo]

no they are not correct, the quotes you gave said that men shall not lie with a man as he does with a woman. gay men don't lie with women at all, so they don't lie with men as they do with women.

The bible is only against bisexuality, not homosexuality. and it says nothing about lesbianism.


it depends on what translation you use

God is not keen on cross dressers also

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5

[Niamh.]

it depends on what translation you use

God is not keen on cross dressers also

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5

These rules don't sound very "Godlike" :laugh:

[Livia]

it depends on what translation you use

God is not keen on cross dressers also

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5

You're sure that's God and not Trinny and Susannah?

[Crimson Dynamo]

k6z_P0uWUIg

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're sure that's God and not Trinny and Susannah?

they look like blokes wearing womens clothes them 2 hags

:hehe:

[Niamh.]

You're sure that's God and not Trinny and Susannah?

:laugh:

[Cherie]

I've played Devil's Advocate for much of this thread... of course if you're offering a service you have to be willing to offer a full service to everyone. When I lived in London I had a corner shop run by a Muslim who sold alcohol and ham...

You make that sound like it is unusual, it isn't

[Cherie]

The same kind of thing happened in England, this sort of thing doesn't happen regularly over here I can assure you

Isn't that the point these guys can go a mole down the road and get the job done, so what is all the fuss about

[Niamh.]

Isn't that the point these guys can go a mole down the road and get the job done, so what is all the fuss about

It's discrimination and shouldn't happen, that's what it about :shrug:

[Cherie]

It's discrimination and shouldn't happen, that's what it about :shrug:

Aren't the gays discriminating against the publishers right to practice his religion fully, and where does freedom of expression fit into all this or are some groups more worthy than others :laugh: we could go round in circles for ever with this one, key point is they will probably get it done for free elsewhere, and I doubt I will be invited to what is turning out to be the event of the year

[Niamh.]

Aren't the gays discriminating against the publishers right to practice his religion fully, and where does freedom of expression fit into all this or are some groups more worthy than others :laugh: we could go round in circles for ever with this one, key point is they will probably get it done for free elsewhere, and I doubt I will be invited to what is turning out to be the event of the year

Yeah, been through this point already, no I don't think the printers are being discriminated against, imo it would the same as if someone refused to serve them because they disagree with their religious beliefs which of course would also be discrimination. They weren't being asked to go the wedding or give them their blessing, just to print up some invites like they would for anyone else.

[Niamh.]

latest Status from their FB page :

Yes, there are differences between civil partnerships and religious weddings, however, one thing I think we would all agree on, is that they both are public declarations of an intended life long commitment. The Bible teaches clearly that marriage is between a man and a woman so, for homosexual people to make that commitment is contrary to God’s word and we could not support it. ‘And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’” Matthew 19.4&5

https://www.facebook.com/BeulahPrint?fref=nf

[Glenn.]

Despicable tbh religious or not.

[Niamh.]

Despicable tbh religious or not.

I've been reading through the comments on it and I have only seen one who agrees with them so far, that's a good sign atleast

[Livia]

latest Status from their FB page :

Yes, there are differences between civil partnerships and religious weddings, however, one thing I think we would all agree on, is that they both are public declarations of an intended life long commitment. The Bible teaches clearly that marriage is between a man and a woman so, for homosexual people to make that commitment is contrary to God’s word and we could not support it. ‘And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’” Matthew 19.4&5

https://www.facebook.com/BeulahPrint?fref=nf
Actually, a civil wedding has eff all to do with the church... so that's what Judge Judy would call, a lot of who shot John.

[Niamh.]

Actually, a civil wedding has eff all to do with the church... so that's what Judge Judy would call, a lot of who shot John.

Judge Judy is amazing :love:

[Marsh.]

Judge Rinder >>>>>>>>>>

[Niamh.]

Judge Rinder >>>>>>>>>>

No way, he's got the smarmiest head and most annoying voice ever

[the truth]

judy judy said shes NOT a feminist and says she has made it to the top on herown hard work and has never felt any barriers at all in getting there and has had loads fo help from men. if only the evil chip on both shoulders feminists could take her more of her genuine honest positive hard working intelligent attitude. instead of trying to get in through the back door and short cuts. shes brutally honest and always seeks the truth. shes awesome

[Niamh.]

judy judy said shes NOT a feminist and says she has made it to the top on herown hard work and has never felt any barriers at all in getting there and has had loads fo help from men. if only the evil chip on both shoulders feminists could take her more of her genuine honest positive hard working intelligent attitude. instead of trying to get in through the back door and short cuts. shes brutally honest and always seeks the truth. shes awesome

Seriously what on earth is your obsession with feminists about? :laugh:

[Black Dagger]

Are these people having a meltdown? Their FB is getting a proper beating. Love it.

[Glenn.]

I've been reading through the comments on it and I have only seen one who agrees with them so far, that's a good sign atleast

I read through the comments too and I'm glad at what I see. It's disgusting discrimination.

[Livia]

My friend is planning his wedding with his partner. So far no one's offered them anything but kindness and congratulations.

[the truth]

what point?, Judge Judy says she's not a feminist? So what? What has that got to do with anything? :laugh:

shes not deliberately LOOKING to be offended like so many liberals...this thread is a perfect example of false outrage of liberals, why don't they just go to another printer and shut the hell up

[Crimson Dynamo]

its religion, why is anyone surprised?

[the truth]

its religion, why is anyone surprised?

stop discriminating against religions

[Crimson Dynamo]

stop discriminating against religions

i am not I am bundling them all together and hating one them as a homogeneous group

:smug:

[VanessaFeltz.]

Nasty creature i hope he will lose all of his buisness.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Those printers may wish to view this link...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158

[Marsh.]

No way, he's got the smarmiest head and most annoying voice ever

:joker:

[Niamh.]

:joker:

That's a word damn it :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's a word damn it :fist:

neem are you stilll at work?

[Niamh.]

neem are you stilll at work?

No :fist:

[Vicky.]

Meh. IMO the printer is wrong, if you own a business you should not discriminate about who you serve. However, I am sick of seeing stories like this about, its starting to feel like people blow it up to massive proportions to get a taste of Z-leb life now. I probably feel this way because if it was me personally being discriminated against, I would probably be pissed off, but would just deal with it and go elsewhere. I don't see the need in getting the press and everything involved. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

However, I am sick of seeing stories like this about

Yeah, and yet you bumped it. :notimpressed:

[Vicky.]

WTF, this was on the front page of my newest posts page :S

Oh dear :facepalm:

[kirklancaster]

Meh. IMO the printer is wrong, if you own a business you should not discriminate about who you serve. However, I am sick of seeing stories like this about, its starting to feel like people blow it up to massive proportions to get a taste of Z-leb life now. I probably feel this way because if it was me personally being discriminated against, I would probably be pissed off, but would just deal with it and go elsewhere. I don't see the need in getting the press and everything involved. :shrug:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: The printers are a pair of dicks, but you are right (Bumped or not) - a mountain out of a molehill.

[kirklancaster]

He just asked someone "How do you know Jesus wasn't gay?" :hehe:

Impossible - Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

[MTVN]

Impossible - Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

Can't meet many Christians who agree with you there

[lostalex]

I don't see why someone should get shtick for their religious beliefs. Some of the comments on here are terrible... if they'd been directed at gay people there would, quite rightly, be hell on.

No, if it were a gay couple that refused to print cards for an interracial couple because of their strong religious beliefs, the comments would be exactly the same.

[kirklancaster]

Can't meet many Christians who agree with you there

No, but I've always said that I am a 'unorthodox Christian' Matt, and my extensive research into my religion leads me to the conviction that Jesus was Mary's partner and very probably married to her.

Apart from the fact that Jesus was an adult Jewish male and it is the norm in Judaism to be married at his age, there is just so much evidence for this that it is ridiculous - in my opinion - not to accept as much.

From 1,600 year old texts coming to light which had hitherto been hidden away in the British Museum, to the evidence of the Nag Hammadi 'Lost Gospels' , to the secret 'codes' within Da Vinci and Michelangelo's art works, the evidence is compelling.

The latest revelations about the recently discovered and reconstructed clay prototype of Michaelangelo's 'Pieta' is especially persuasive.

The fact that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene does nothing to detract from him being the Christ and perhaps it's time that orthodox Christians should take a fresh look at Christianity and acknowledge that much of what we read in our Holy Bible owes more to MAN's prejudice-driven draconian editing than any unaltered truth.

[Niamh.]

Impossible - Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

Elton John was married to a woman at one stage as well :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Elton John was married to a woman at one stage as well :hehe:

:nono: You Naughty Naughty Girl. :joker: (Elton was just confused and didn't know which way to point his Candle In The Wind :hehe:)

[Niamh.]

:nono: You Naughty Naughty Girl. :joker: (Elton was just confused and didn't know which way to point his Candle In The Wind :hehe:)

Jesus might have been the same ......except..it'd be his sandel in the wind :unsure:

[Marsh.]

:umm2:

[kirklancaster]

Jesus might have been the same ......except..it'd be his sandel in the wind :unsure:

:joker::joker::joker: Actually, that was really Quick and really witty Niamh :fist: But still Naughty. :laugh: