The Budget 18/3/15 BBC2HD & SkyNewsHD

[arista]

Cg4TyYoOUuQ
this remix was also posted by kizzy on another thread


Confirmed Wages are going up

http://news.sky.com/story/1444408/the-budget-what-to-expect-from-osborne


Also on ITV1HD from the later time of 12:15PM -2PM

[Kizzy]

Fat lot of good that's going to be on a 0hr contract.
Too little too late.

[arista]

Fat lot of good that's going to be on a 0hr contract.
Too little too late.


Valid Point

[joeysteele]

What exactly is the point of this budget other than to possibly try to do some 'engineered electioneering'.

This should have been postponed until after the election in just 7 weeks time.
If this lot lose in May, then this budget is probably virtually meaningless, as the next govt; will be doing their own budget soon after the election is over and taking power.

[JoshBB]

ed miliband bopping to the music lmao

but yeah he needs to end zero hour contracts and also look into reversing some austerity before this is even credible tbh

[arista]

Stop Moaning Joey
its better than nothing

[Crimson Dynamo]

good bit of electioneering

osbourne has stopped the downturn, balanced the books and is the darling of europe

now his budget will show that if you are voting on the economy, better vote tory


labour cannot be trusted with money

this budget should be the final nail in millibands coffin

[joeysteele]

Stop Moaning Joey
its better than nothing

I'm not moaning just making an observation as to planning and presenting a possible unnecessary budget.

They have known for years this election was to be held on May 7th, I see no point at all of presenting a budget just barely 2 or 3 weeks before parliament is to be ended until after the election.

No one has much idea what make up of govt; could be in power after May 7th, this budget could in all likelihood be rendered totally meaningless in just less than 8 weeks time.

[Kizzy]

good bit of electioneering

osbourne has stopped the downturn, balanced the books and is the darling of europe

now his budget will show that if you are voting on the economy, better vote tory


labour cannot be trusted with money

this budget should be the final nail in millibands coffin

Define 'balanced the books'.....
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/03/article-0-190F39AD000005DC-388_634x382.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48143000/gif/_48143635_annual_budget_deficits_466_4.gif

The Chancellor, George Osborne, has outlined the government's plans to "balance the books" by 2016.

Mr Osborne said the government planned to cut the structural budget deficit to zero in the next six years.

The structural deficit represents the hole in the public finances that is not expected to be repaired by economic recovery.

The chancellor also said he expected the UK's total debt levels to have started falling by 2016.

But he added that the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) was forecasting that the government would meet these targets a year early, by 2015.
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George Osborne on growth forecast

The OBR, headed by economist Sir Alan Budd, was set up to provide an independent assessment of the state of the UK's public finances and the UK economy.

Total borrowing is expected to fall to 2.1% of GDP by 2015, the OBR said, and reach 1.1% by 2016.

Current borrowing stands at £155bn - 11% of GDP.

The UK's total debt, which currently stands at more than 62% of GDP, is forecast to peak at 70% of GDP in 2013-14, before falling to 67% by 2015-16.

Announcing the plan, Mr Osborne said the Budget "deals decisively with this country's record debts".
Slower growth

Although confirming that the government's target for deficit reduction was achievable, the OBR warned that the economy would suffer as a result.

It is now forecasting that the UK economy will grow by 1.2% this year and 2.3% in 2011, lower than the previous government's forecasts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375236

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;7644906]Define 'balanced the books'.....
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/03/article-0-190F39AD000005DC-388_634x382.jpg[/QUOT

Into 2013 as well Kizzy.

This is the Chancellor and govt; that said the deficit had to be cleared by 2015 or that would be a disaster for the UK.

If things were really as 'rosy' as they would have us believe, then there would be no need for savage further austerity measures.
Also the growth in place at present and the long awaited for recovery we have been waiting for over the first near 4 years of this govt; would have fed down to those at the lowest end of the scale of things.
None of which has happened.

The growth we now have and the recovery is welcome, it is however still a case of playing catch up on the near negative period between late 2010 and up to early 2014.

The deficit is only half cleared, a massive failure of this govt; and it is only half cleared because they have altered the way the deficit is now measured as to the economy.
In fact from what it stood at, and how it was measured in 2010, there is still only a third off it likely.

Despite all this sudden good news, this govt; is having the audacity to come into the 2015 election promising as it did in 2010 to clear the deficit in 3 to 4 years, planning even more severe austerity measures too,so in fact asking for the same time to do exactly the same things again after failing the last 5 years to do so.

That amounts to massive failure in my book and the only thing annoying me with Labour is that instead of shying away from the economy, they should be pointing all that out,because it does amount to failure on this govts; part on a huge scale.

I also think a suspicion could be right to take,that this rosy picture could fall away after the election and as in 2010, this govt; have to start downgrading its optimistic predicitions,as it did almost every quarter from 2010 to late 2013.

Far from trusting these again with the economy, I wouldn't trust their predictions at all,they and the independent economists too, all had to downgrade their predictions for the economy over the last 4 and half years.
Add in to that, the one true fact is that the vast majority of people in the UK will, despite this so called wondeful news now, be worse off, and some extremely so, than they actaully were in 2010.
No matter what this budget offers, that is a fact that will remain far beyond election day on May 7th.

I see no success from this govt; also figures and statistics can be thrown about left,right and centre, most of which just go way over the heads of the voters.
They just want to feel better off than they did before, with decent wages and living standards for them rising, none of that can be claimed after 5 years of this shambles.

[Kizzy]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48143000/gif/_48143635_annual_budget_deficits_466_4.gif

The Chancellor, George Osborne, has outlined the government's plans to "balance the books" by 2016.

Mr Osborne said the government planned to cut the structural budget deficit to zero in the next six years.

The structural deficit represents the hole in the public finances that is not expected to be repaired by economic recovery.

The chancellor also said he expected the UK's total debt levels to have started falling by 2016.

But he added that the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) was forecasting that the government would meet these targets a year early, by 2015.
Jump media player
Media player help
Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.

George Osborne on growth forecast

The OBR, headed by economist Sir Alan Budd, was set up to provide an independent assessment of the state of the UK's public finances and the UK economy.

Total borrowing is expected to fall to 2.1% of GDP by 2015, the OBR said, and reach 1.1% by 2016.

Current borrowing stands at £155bn - 11% of GDP.

The UK's total debt, which currently stands at more than 62% of GDP, is forecast to peak at 70% of GDP in 2013-14, before falling to 67% by 2015-16.

Announcing the plan, Mr Osborne said the Budget "deals decisively with this country's record debts".
Slower growth

Although confirming that the government's target for deficit reduction was achievable, the OBR warned that the economy would suffer as a result.

It is now forecasting that the UK economy will grow by 1.2% this year and 2.3% in 2011, lower than the previous government's forecasts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375236

Have you seen the date of this article....Osborne ave his crystal ball out did he?
Bit way of the mark :joker:

edit: in the same month (june 2010)

'Budget: Osborne's 'tough' package puts VAT up to 20%
Chancellor George Osborne increased VAT from 17.5% to 20% and cut welfare spending as he moved "decisively" to tackle Britain's record debts.
Child benefit and public sector pay will be frozen and 25% cut from public service spending'

5yrs on squeezed to death and no better off.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/17/377960/default/v2/times-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/17/377965/default/v2/guardian-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/17/377961/default/v2/telegraph-1-720x960.jpg

[arista]

good bit of electioneering

osbourne has stopped the downturn, balanced the books and is the darling of europe

now his budget will show that if you are voting on the economy, better vote tory


labour cannot be trusted with money

this budget should be the final nail in millibands coffin

Valid Point

[MTVN]

PMQs followed by the budget, ****ing love it

[Crimson Dynamo]

great kitchen joke by Dave

lol

[MTVN]

"He literally doesn't know where his next meal is coming from" :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

"He literally doesn't know where his next meal is coming from" :joker:

:joker:

[smudgie]

Enjoying this PMQ's.
Cameron does seem to have all the answers.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Osborne has so, so much ammo here

balls has no chance

[Vicky.]

To deliver falling debt, Government must achieve £30 billion further savings by 2017/18 - £13 billion from Government departments, £12 billion from welfare savings and £5 billion from clamping down on tax avoidance and evasion, said Mr Osborne.

What else can they cut from welfare without introducing the living wage I wonder. Given pensions will be untouched again..should be saving more from clamping down on tax avoidance IMO :S

[arista]

great kitchen joke by Dave

lol


Yes and Osborne
on Mobile phones controlling
2 Fridges of 2 Kitchen Homes
like the Rich Labour Leader
has


http://news.sky.com/story/1447473/osborne-tells-voters-choose-the-future

[MTVN]

:joker: Two kitchens Miliband provides so much fun

[arista]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02276/01_FABUDGE_2276771a.jpg

[MTVN]

Cider duty cut :clap2:

[arista]

ITV1HD News has left Ed Milibands Live reply
and gone to debating the Budget in the Studio.


How Nice

[smudgie]

Is It my imagination, or is Miliband getting worse at public speaking.
I can't count the times he repeats himself before actually getting his point across.

Time he went, he is no asset to the Labour Party, such a shame really.

[arista]

Osborne has so, so much ammo here

balls has no chance


Its Not Balls
its that Horrid Voiced Labour Leader
moaning.

so much
one news dumped him

[smudgie]

ITV1HD News has left Ed Milibands Live reply
and gone to debating the Budget in the Studio.


How Nice

You can't blame them..he is on a permanent loop.
Blah blah blah...and then the constant repeating himself:sleep:

[arista]

Is It my imagination, or is Miliband getting worse at public speaking.
I can't count the times he repeats himself before actually getting his point across.

Time he went, he is no asset to the Labour Party, such a shame really.


Yes better to mute him
and put on subtitles

[Crimson Dynamo]

Cider duty cut :clap2:

yup

LT makes a saving on his beloved K cider

[joeysteele]

I am stunned at any beer and alcohol cut as to duty, the NHS is flooded with people with alcohol related problems, this govts; answer,make it cheaper.

Overall this was a neutral budget mixed with a fair amount of fantasy as to living standards for 'all'. as to recovery and growth.

I actually thought Ed Miliband made good points, in the house of commons, the noise is excruciating and overpowering.
It is hard for any politician, particularly when being yelled at to keep on track and ensure they get heard.
It happened to shadow Mnisters from the Conservatives when in opposition too from Labour members,no politician is immune from it.

I actually think for the vast majority of voters, this budget presentation will just go over their heads, too much technical jargon and not enough clear explanation.

The one thing most will notice is the main lie, that people are better off under this govt; then they were in 2010.
That was a really patronising own goal from the Chancellor.

Ed Miliband was right to, to point out, all his targets figures of the election campaign of 2010, have just about all been missed,as to growth, the deficit and time of assured strong recovery.
I say assured because when these took power there was already a recovery in place and growth of around 1% too, which was then completely eroded within 2 quarters and did not solidly return until 2014.

Of course he has had successes too, no one can deny from his perspective,he has the good of the country in his mind, it is how he plans to get there, tramping over the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable that make just about all his planned measures wrong.

Measures that didn't work for nearly 4 years before and ones that could again risk the recovery and growth there is now.
Half succeeding over 5 years with such severe policies all through, does not inspire confidence that they will work now over the same time again with even more severe cuts to be put in place.
No thank you, not for me.

The weakest, the poorest,te most vulnerable, sick and disabled,and also genuine jobseekers warrant a far better and more compassionate way of supporting them in work, out of work and who are incapable of work,especially those on 16 hour contracts and zero hour contracts too
Not forgetting the NHS, because quite frankly from all I heard today, he is going to have to save money on a great scale and there are only 2 things he can really hit, that is the NHS and Welfare spending.

Those that care about those things and in fairness and justice for the people they affect overall,need to think carefully about ever trusting this lot with those vulnerable issues again.
Cameron had a hidden agenda as to the NHS last time and I fear he has a bigger one this time, no matter what he says as to it.
He blatantly lied last time in the debates as to this issue and so I for one won't take his word on the NHS again.

It also really is time to stop tramping into the ground,those who are the most vulnerable, sick and disabled,I heard not a thing for them here at all today from the Chancellor.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-1920/h--/q-95/ec95453279019e716ba48b57cd5b321b21d944f8/0_46_2059_1237/2000.jpg

[arista]

First Time Buyers
save £12,000
and then they Get FREE £3,000

Thats the max amount you can save to get the Max Free Cash

Ref: Radio5 Live

That is a Great help

[arista]

Osborne's 'Political' Pitch For Old And Young

http://news.sky.com/story/1447473/osbornes-political-pitch-for-old-and-young

[At the heart of his last Budget before the General Election,
Mr Osborne put a Help To Buy ISA, which would see the
Government contribute £50 for every £200 saved
towards a deposit on a first home - a 25% top-up.
And he announced savers would not have to pay tax
on the first £1,000 of their savings.
He also announced the level at which workers start paying
the 40p tax rate would increase above inflation from £42,385 to £43,300
and raised the level at which people start to pay income tax on earnings to £11,000.]

[Nedusa]

I'm not moaning just making an observation as to planning and presenting a possible unnecessary budget.

They have known for years this election was to be held on May 7th, I see no point at all of presenting a budget just barely 2 or 3 weeks before parliament is to be ended until after the election.

No one has much idea what make up of govt; could be in power after May 7th, this budget could in all likelihood be rendered totally meaningless in just less than 8 weeks time.

I agree..........back in 2010 Osbourne delivered his own "emergency Budget" in June or July making the last labour one in May pointless.

[user104658]

Awesome. Now, when is it going to be possible for me to buy a 3 bed semi in my local area for less than £140,000? Oh that's not happening? Well then the first time buyers boost is completely ****ing useless isn't it! Huff, puff.

Though I might buy a flat, rent it out, and use the rent to pay a chunk of my own rent...

... That actually makes quite a lot of sense. At least then I might end up OWNING something rather than lining other people's pockets on the 1st of every month.

[user104658]

(basically what I'm saying is, anyone who can afford to be a first time buyer AT ALL doesn't need a handout)

[Nedusa]

I am stunned at any beer and alcohol cut as to duty, the NHS is flooded with people with alcohol related problems, this govts; answer,make it cheaper.

Overall this was a neutral budget mixed with a fair amount of fantasy as to living standards for 'all'. as to recovery and growth.

I actually thought Ed Miliband made good points, in the house of commons, the noise is excruciating and overpowering.
It is hard for any politician, particularly when being yelled at to keep on track and ensure they get heard.
It happened to shadow Mnisters from the Conservatives when in opposition too from Labour members,no politician is immune from it.

I actually think for the vast majority of voters, this budget presentation will just go over their heads, too much technical jargon and not enough clear explanation.

The one thing most will notice is the main lie, that people are better off under this govt; then they were in 2010.
That was a really patronising own goal from the Chancellor.

Ed Miliband was right to, to point out, all his targets figures of the election campaign of 2010, have just about all been missed,as to growth, the deficit and time of assured strong recovery.
I say assured because when these took power there was already a recovery in place and growth of around 1% too, which was then completely eroded within 2 quarters and did not solidly return until 2014.

Of course he has had successes too, no one can deny from his perspective,he has the good of the country in his mind, it is how he plans to get there, tramping over the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable that make just about all his planned measures wrong.

Measures that didn't work for nearly 4 years before and ones that could again risk the recovery and growth there is now.
Half succeeding over 5 years with such severe policies all through, does not inspire confidence that they will work now over the same time again with even more severe cuts to be put in place.
No thank you, not for me.

The weakest, the poorest,te most vulnerable, sick and disabled,and also genuine jobseekers warrant a far better and more compassionate way of supporting them in work, out of work and who are incapable of work,especially those on 16 hour contracts and zero hour contracts too
Not forgetting the NHS, because quite frankly from all I heard today, he is going to have to save money on a great scale and there are only 2 things he can really hit, that is the NHS and Welfare spending.

Those that care about those things and in fairness and justice for the people they affect overall,need to think carefully about ever trusting this lot with those vulnerable issues again.
Cameron had a hidden agenda as to the NHS last time and I fear he has a bigger one this time, no matter what he says as to it.
He blatantly lied last time in the debates as to this issue and so I for one won't take his word on the NHS again.

It also really is time to stop tramping into the ground,those who are the most vulnerable, sick and disabled,I heard not a thing for them here at all today from the Chancellor.

Joey...............THEY DON'T CARE.......they really couldn't give a fig about the lower working classes and below. They know Labour do not have a cat in hell's chance of winning this election let alone winning enough enough seats to form a Labour Govt.

With SNP decimating the Labour MP's in Scotland and UKIP doing the same thing in the North of England Labour will probably have about 75 MP's or less than they had 5 years ago. The Tories know they are onto a winner albeit in another coalition so this Budget was crowing at its best.

Such a shame though as the Tories have not really demonstrated they have the right formula for recovery and a lot of their numbers and forecasts are suspect as has already been discussed in earlier posts.

I think the next govt will be Cons led coalition poss with SNP's and UKIP and mayber the Lib Dems but it will be 80% Tory with the same faces in the senior cabinet positions.

[joeysteele]

Joey...............THEY DON'T CARE.......they really couldn't give a fig about the lower working classes and below. They know Labour do not have a cat in hell's chance of winning this election let alone winning enough enough seats to form a Labour Govt.

With SNP decimating the Labour MP's in Scotland and UKIP doing the same thing in the North of England Labour will probably have about 75 MP's or less than they had 5 years ago. The Tories know they are onto a winner albeit in another coalition so this Budget was crowing at its best.

Such a shame though as the Tories have not really demonstrated they have the right formula for recovery and a lot of their numbers and forecasts are suspect as has already been discussed in earlier posts.

I think the next govt will be Cons led coalition poss with SNP's and UKIP and mayber the Lib Dems but it will be 80% Tory with the same faces in the senior cabinet positions.


Interesting post as yours always are Nedusa, I don't share your pessimism of Labour's chances.
I still think that despite Ed Miliband, they could easily be the largest party.
No way do I see them having less than 200 seats as you mention in your post, in fact I think the 'minimum' they will win, even with the losses in Scotland will be around 280.
Labour would need to be under 25% in the voting to possibly fall under 200 seats.

I don't think UKIP will do that well in Labour held seats either, they will for sure move into a good 2nd place in a lot of them and put up a formidable challenge in some but actually winning them,I doubt that will happen in more than 3 to 4 seats at the most.

The SNP will never under any circumstances prop up a Conservative govt; even as a supply and vote arrangement.

It is still a fact that regardless of where UKIP may get, that the Conservatives need to be at least 6% ahead of Labour to be sure of the smallest possible overall majority.
With the Labour position in Scotland at present, although I expect votes to return to Labour by May,I accept Labour will lose seats to the SNP but that really doesn't bother me.
I myself would love a Labour led govt; with SNP support, not a full coalition but there on major legislative votes and confidence issues.

I actually can see the SNP having with its gains from Labour and also the Lib Dems, around 35 to 44 seats min. in Scotland.

I also can see both the Conservatives and Labour having around 285 upwards of seats each too.

This could actually leave parliament in the situation where no party could govern without some agreement with the SNP.
Knowing the strong anti Conservative make up from other parties in the house of commons,this would really leave the SNP supporting Labour along with Plaid Cymru and the SDLP in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein who have 5 seats at present never take their seats in westminster so that means only 323 seats are needed for an overall majority.

I think there is still a mountain to climb for the Conservatives to be in govt; again and with a vastly depleted Lib Dem representation likely too, that chance seems ever slimmer.

Whatever happens whether it is more your idea in your post or more near mine, as long as the Conservatives again fail to get an overall majority then I will be content.
Also the more parties needed to get to a governing majority,the better for me too, as every seat further away from an overall majority for this Conservative party and this hopeless PM,will be acceptable to me and in the long run, better for the UK too in my view.

[arista]

Joey...............THEY DON'T CARE.......they really couldn't give a fig about the lower working classes and below. They know Labour do not have a cat in hell's chance of winning this election let alone winning enough enough seats to form a Labour Govt.

With SNP decimating the Labour MP's in Scotland and UKIP doing the same thing in the North of England Labour will probably have about 75 MP's or less than they had 5 years ago. The Tories know they are onto a winner albeit in another coalition so this Budget was crowing at its best.

Such a shame though as the Tories have not really demonstrated they have the right formula for recovery and a lot of their numbers and forecasts are suspect as has already been discussed in earlier posts.

I think the next govt will be Cons led coalition poss with SNP's and UKIP and maybe the Lib Dems but it will be 80% Tory with the same faces in the senior cabinet positions.

Yes Far better
than fecking Labours
2 EDs who were in the last Tragic
13 years of Stinking New Labour

[empire]

funny I was watching an old, spitting image, ep, about the budget, with thatcher in their, and norman tebbit, the leather clad skin head, hitting nigel lawson, with a police baton,and making him cave in, to signing her name the the budget book,

[arista]

6_BxEXGgnqc&list=UUHeuoBGZ-zlu0Qe_-GEly7g


Joey
look at these 2 Nice women in
Plymouth


I recorded this from Ch4HDNews Live

[Crimson Dynamo]

very wise ladies with good business heads

not foxed by milliband and his 2 kitchens

[arista]

very wise ladies with good business heads

not foxed by milliband and his 2 kitchens


Bang On Right LT

[joeysteele]

6_BxEXGgnqc&list=UUHeuoBGZ-zlu0Qe_-GEly7g


Joey
look at these 2 Nice women in
Plymouth


I recorded this from Ch4HDNews Live

So what am I supposed to take from that, one of them was already going to vote Conservative anyway and the other likely was too.
Hardy surprising there's no change at that, however, I watched a clip from marginal Lancaster,where there was far less enthusiasm for the Chancellor's budget.

There are still around a third of voters at least likely to vote Conservative arista, the law of averages will mean such people will easily be found.

It is however quite pleasing and surprising too, to hear Conservative voters going on about the minimum wage being increased as a good thing, considering that without a Labour govt; the minimum wage would 'never' have probably been introduced in the UK by a Conservative govt; since they claimed mass unemployment would have been the result if it ever was.

Those 2 don't impress me at all, I thought like them just over 5 years ago myself as to the Conservatives,certainly not now however and never while Cameron or any other leader that thinks like him is leader.

[arista]

"Those 2 don't impress me at all,"

so Out of Touch
you are.

[Kizzy]

Last set of lies, half truths and untruths from a party that has done more to damage this country to line their own pockets than any other government.
That was the biggest load of twaddle I've ever heard.... but cider is down plebs! just sit in your bedsit in hull and suck on your apple flavoured chemicals until it's time to get back on the wheel serf.
Roll on the debates, I don't think Ed could believe his ears to be fair... every fibre of his being would have wanted to scream 'nobody would be stupid enough to believe this lot surely'!!?

"People are £1,600 a year worse off, the next generation has seen wages plummet and tuition fees treble.
"You have built fewer homes than at any time for nearly 100 years.
"And it's certainly not a truly national recovery when there are more zero hours contracts than the population of Glasgow, Leeds and Cardiff combined.
"That is the reality of the lives of working people.
"These are the facts, these are the inconvenient truths of his record - it's a recovery for the few from a Government of the few."

Bang on right.

[joeysteele]

"Those 2 don't impress me at all,"

so Out of Touch
you are.

We will see after May 7th and what is the next govt; following the 'voters' decision.

Until then I am as out of touch as you would be if it was true,which is not at all.
I am surprised you join the bandwagon and make such a cheap jibe at me actually just because I happen to be supporting a different side of the political arguments and party than yourself.

[joeysteele]

Last set of lies, half truths and untruths from a party that has done more to damage this country to line their own pockets than any other government.
That was the biggest load of twaddle I've ever heard.... but cider is down plebs! just sit in your bedsit in hull and suck on your apple flavoured chemicals until it's time to get back on the wheel serf.
Roll on the debates, I don't think Ed could believe his ears to be fair... every fibre of his being would have wanted to scream 'nobody would be stupid enough to believe this lot surely'!!?

The campaign is going to be more interesting than I believed it would be.
I also still believe too that Ed Miliband can really make the argument in the campaign.

Although I hate personal attacks, on a programme it was said by a political pundit as to the Conservatives making constant personal attacks on Miliband.
'Insults come against someone when they are feared'.

I still think that is why Cameron will not face him head on too.

[Kizzy]

The campaign is going to be more interesting than I believed it would be.
I also still believe too that Ed Miliband can really make the argument in the campaign.

Although I hate personal attacks, on a programme it was said by a political pundit as to the Conservatives making constant personal attacks on Miliband.
'Insults come against someone when they are feared'.

I still think that is why Cameron will not face him head on too.

True Joey, it's purile playground politics and it's evidence that they are running scared, if any were needed.

[MTVN]

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

[Livia]

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

So true...

[Vicky.]

I think the next govt will be Cons led coalition poss with SNP's and UKIP and maybe the Lib Dems but it will be 80% Tory with the same faces in the senior cabinet positions.

My god that idea scares the **** out of me.

Mind, last I heard Farage said no Tory backup unless he was guaranteed an EU referendum by the end of the year. Honestly..I don't think thats unreasonable. I would like a vote on it though I don't know which way I would go

[Kizzy]

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

When has it actually been commented on by the media as excessive before though? It smacks of a rat backed into a corner... they've come flying out with insults and lies as they've nothing else.

[joeysteele]

When has it actually been commented on by the media as excessive before though? It smacks of a rat backed into a corner... they've come flying out with insults and lies as they've nothing else.

Not about this particular time but my Dad tells me that even as a Conservative voter he was very uncomfortable with the media and govt; with its attacks on Neil Kinnock, who my Dad didn't care for at all.
However he was really annoyed and nearly didn't vote at all in protest at what he says were really despicable attacking of Glenys Kinnock his wife in 2 elections.

Of course there are punch and judy politics but the deep personal attacks on Ed Miliband are unnecessary in my view.
I as a voter can engage in attacking the other parties for what they seem to stand for however,I would I hope always refrain from making attacks as to their appearance.
I think it is time polticians grew up and stopped that offputting part of punch and judy politics, in fact that is another thing this PM said he wanted to see happen, yet he has become one of the main offenders as to it and seems to even encourage it

As you point out too, sections of the media have described it as excessive.

Anyway, I have a feeling this budget,such as it was, will not have the impact hoped for.

[joeysteele]

My god that idea scares the **** out of me.

Mind, last I heard Farage said no Tory backup unless he was guaranteed an EU referendum by the end of the year. Honestly..I don't think thats unreasonable. I would like a vote on it though I don't know which way I would go

Scares me too, I really believe a Conservative led govt with UKIP either in support or full coalition would be a total disaster.
Mind you, to be fair to them, a great many decent Conservative MPs would detest completely doing any deal with UKIP, which could cause major problems for David Cameron.

Anyway,we will only get a referendum from David Cameron 'if' he gets an overall majority, if he doesn't even get an overall majority, he isn't even committed to any re-negotiations with the EU as that too is conditional on getting an overall majority for himself.

He for sure couldn't do any re-negotiations with all members of the EU in a few months, then a referendum bill would have to be debated in the commons and then have to get through the Lords,who could hold it up considerably.
So Nigel Farage knows full well, David Cameron could never deliver a referendum in that time so hopefully no deal can be forthcoming.
Not that I believe anyway that David Cameron ever intends to hold one.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/18/378338/default/v1/telegraph-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/18/378337/default/v1/metro-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/18/378342/default/v1/express-1-720x960.jpg

[MB.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAadoGTUgAEQQ0i.jpg

Sweet dreams all.

[Kizzy]

If you earn money and don't spend it, just leave it for them to gamble with great.
How will anyone on a 0hr contract get a morgage?....
1p off a pint (cue the that's for you northern oik memes)

[the truth]

new labour should be abolished. start the old labour party again and try to evolve from there. new labour were pure evil, everything they did was based on lies , deceit and of course lead to illegal wars and bankruptcy. I as you know detest some of their health and safety their petty pc drivel and the endless new [petty laws regulations stealth taxes and giving in to the European union disaster.......the gap between rich and poor grew to larger than for 200 years...they did nothing for industry, they nearly destroyed the UK, they tried to break up all unions they sold off the public utilies , they ripped up clause 4, passed 3000 mostly absurd laws, sucked up to Murdoch, grew government and enormous government waste and cover ups...took debt to all time records, oversaw the housing banking and stock market collapse, endless cover ups, filthy hospitals and disgraceful abuses across the nhs etc.....another term of labour and wed have gone to hell. they've learnt nothing grown not a bit and will repeat their own moronical policies.

[the truth]

Scares me too, I really believe a Conservative led govt with UKIP either in support or full coalition would be a total disaster.
Mind you, to be fair to them, a great many decent Conservative MPs would detest completely doing any deal with UKIP, which could cause major problems for David Cameron.

Anyway,we will only get a referendum from David Cameron 'if' he gets an overall majority, if he doesn't even get an overall majority, he isn't even committed to any re-negotiations with the EU as that too is conditional on getting an overall majority for himself.

He for sure couldn't do any re-negotiations with all members of the EU in a few months, then a referendum bill would have to be debated in the commons and then have to get through the Lords,who could hold it up considerably.
So Nigel Farage knows full well, David Cameron could never deliver a referendum in that time so hopefully no deal can be forthcoming.
Not that I believe anyway that David Cameron ever intends to hold one.

It was a predictably pathetic budget which offered nothing for anyone
but the labour party is such a joke that frankly any muppet in 10 and 11 downing street would beat them. vat is the number 1 issue labour should attack them on, then chasing up corporate tax evasion, the nhs is looker weaker ground for labour though they messed that up big time....milibland may have to suck back up to the unions....sadly with him as leader harriet man hater harmon and ed balls up on the front row they haven't got a snowmans chance in hell

[Kizzy]

new labour should be abolished. start the old labour party again and try to evolve from there. new labour were pure evil, everything they did was based on lies , deceit and of course lead to illegal wars and bankruptcy. I as you know detest some of their health and safety their petty pc drivel and the endless new [petty laws regulations stealth taxes and giving in to the European union disaster.......the gap between rich and poor grew to larger than for 200 years...they did nothing for industry, they nearly destroyed the UK, they tried to break up all unions they sold off the public utilies , they ripped up clause 4, passed 3000 mostly absurd laws, sucked up to Murdoch, grew government and enormous government waste and cover ups...took debt to all time records, oversaw the housing banking and stock market collapse, endless cover ups, filthy hospitals and disgraceful abuses across the nhs etc.....another term of labour and wed have gone to hell. they've learnt nothing grown not a bit and will repeat their own moronical policies.

I think you got your parties confused the tories sold the utilities... and nigh on everything else.

'Amid the early 80s recession, the Tories had begun to propose privatisation as a potential panacea. Conservative MP Geoffrey Howe extolled the "discipline" of the marketplace. The emerging doctrine was that privatisation would make the large utilities more efficient and productive, and thus make British capitalism competitive relative to its continental rivals. In this period, the government sold off Jaguar, British Telecom, the remainder of Cable & Wireless and British Aerospace, Britoil and British Gas.


'Following the Tories' third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/29/short-history-of-privatisation

[the truth]

I think you got your parties confused the tories sold the utilities... and nigh on everything else.

'Amid the early 80s recession, the Tories had begun to propose privatisation as a potential panacea. Conservative MP Geoffrey Howe extolled the "discipline" of the marketplace. The emerging doctrine was that privatisation would make the large utilities more efficient and productive, and thus make British capitalism competitive relative to its continental rivals. In this period, the government sold off Jaguar, British Telecom, the remainder of Cable & Wireless and British Aerospace, Britoil and British Gas.


'Following the Tories' third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/29/short-history-of-privatisation

no not at all. Im well aware of the evil tories under Maggie thatcher milk snatcher, but what did new labour do to reverse this? nothing, they continued it, they were even worse. then managed to continue thatchers work but also managed to destroy the economy too...that's why if you had bothered to actually read my posts youd realise I ask for the original labour party to reform and for new labour to end. milibland , ed balls up and hariett haggard are all relics of the disastrous new labour so they have no chance....its 5 more years of tories im afraid and we need to start planning already for 2020 if any of us are still around then

[user104658]

If you earn money and don't spend it, just leave it for them to gamble with great.
How will anyone on a 0hr contract get a morgage?....
1p off a pint (cue the that's for you northern oik memes)
Not even just 0hr, mortgage lenders at the moment are too shy to lend on anything other than contracted hours. Loads of people on 16 - 35 hour contracts working more hours than that regularly. The system is a total mess. The only positive lately is the changed to paid holiday allowance (companies have to give paid holiday based on average hours worked per week, NOT contract hours)... Which to be fair is a large part of why zero-hour contracts exist at all. So that you can work full weeks but are not contractually entitled to paid holiday, sick pay, parental leave, etc.

Really bugged me even when I was on a 20 hour contract. I *always* worked far more hours, 30 to 40, but for holidays and paternity I was only paid for the contracted 20... Well short of my usual pay.

Total scam and good that it's being fixed.

Like I said though, won't be the same situation with lenders, and this 3k boost for first time buyers is totally useless while property prices are sky high and lenders are shylocking.

[joeysteele]

The point really is that the recovery we have at present is consumer led, lower prices and people spending again, the real hard input needed for solid growth and recovery are still not forthcoming,yet anyway.

This is described as a budget for savers but if people start saving rather than spending, then that could possibly affect the recovery and growth in a negative way,however that seems to be a risk that this Chancellor is prepared to take, despite his failures over the first near 4 years of this govt:

However this was a rather neutral budget in the main, some have termed it empty, such is the case that Ed Balls has apparantly stated that he as Chancellor would not reverse any of it.
Which rather takes the shine, that George Osborne tried to put on it, off it.

The only thing Ed Balls has said is that he will not cut as severely as this govt; was planning to,which in itself is the thing most needed now to also help recovery and growth, rather than 4 more years at least of the over extreme cutting that has gone on over the last 5 years already.

Also 'the truth', Kizzy was correct,it was the Conservative govt; that sold off all the utilities, rather cheaply too, for Labour to ahve reversed than by the time they came to power, they would have then rightly been pilloried for setting out on a very costly for the taxpayer indded programme of re-nationalising those utilities again.

They should never have been sold off in the first place,with hindsight.

Having said that, it is the one thing I wish the present Labour party would set out to look at doing now, I think there is a mood in the country for the energy companies to be taken to task and even for a return to state control of the energy industries, in fact the water industy too.
Not forgetting the railways.

I accept a lot of voters who dislike intensely this govt; are unsure of the alternative,however if like me, those doubters really want this govt; gone for the heartless and unjust way it has pursued its policies, then there is only one main alternative to support that can get rid of it for sure,and I for one will be voting for that change too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was a good day for the Tories yesterday

[Livia]

It was a good day for the Tories yesterday

It was a pretty good day for the Left too. It allowed them to unleash a display of histrionics the like of which has not been seen since the last budget.

[user104658]

Anyone can have a good day when they're willing to tell a pack of lies to gullible audience :joker:.

[user104658]

I mean really. There are people out there who actually buy into the rhetoric that the economy is recovering. They're like "yaaaay it's over!! Thanks, Tories!". It must be quite nice to be so blissfully unaware of the fact that we're all ****ed.

[joeysteele]

Not even just 0hr, mortgage lenders at the moment are too shy to lend on anything other than contracted hours. Loads of people on 16 - 35 hour contracts working more hours than that regularly. The system is a total mess. The only positive lately is the changed to paid holiday allowance (companies have to give paid holiday based on average hours worked per week, NOT contract hours)... Which to be fair is a large part of why zero-hour contracts exist at all. So that you can work full weeks but are not contractually entitled to paid holiday, sick pay, parental leave, etc.

Really bugged me even when I was on a 20 hour contract. I *always* worked far more hours, 30 to 40, but for holidays and paternity I was only paid for the contracted 20... Well short of my usual pay.

Total scam and good that it's being fixed.

Like I said though, won't be the same situation with lenders, and this 3k boost for first time buyers is totally useless while property prices are sky high and lenders are shylocking.

At the supermarket where I live, the staff are on 16 hour contracts only now.

Most of them just cannot manage and as you say holidays and other leave only get the bare 16 hours pay.
That is a disgrace in my opinion and many of them say,they only get substantially more hours work over Christmas,easter and the main holiday period, end of july to early august...
Just about near impossible to budget adequately for that if you are the only one in work, yes it is okay for say the 2nd person in a relationship to have that position but if it is someone's main income, it makes life even harder even though they are considered by this govt; to be in 'full employment'.

This budget did not a single thing for any of those people, they have got some work but are getting kicked in the teeth for doing so by these smaller number of hours contracts.
Hours they may only get week after week but they also must always be available to do more if needed, so taking another job is out of the question.

I say, no one should be considered in full employment unless they are on at least 33 hours guaranteed work every week.
Then let's see the real unemployment figures,not the massaged ones.

[joeysteele]

I mean really. There are people out there who actually buy into the rhetoric that the economy is recovering. They're like "yaaaay it's over!! Thanks, Tories!". It must be quite nice to be so blissfully unaware of the fact that we're all ****ed.

With a minimum of 4 more years still to come of severe austerity cuts again at least.
Which were all supposed to be done with by 2014/5 on this lots 2010 policies.

Doesn't sound much like even just a fair recovery,never mind a good recovery to me either.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anyone can have a good day when they're willing to tell a pack of lies to gullible audience :joker:.

shoosh you

stop breaking the illusion that politicians make changes and not people and businesses :nono:

[Livia]

Anyone can have a good day when they're willing to tell a pack of lies to gullible audience :joker:.

So that's all parties of all colours, then.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So that's all parties of all colours, then.

:nono:

The Greens lady could not remember her lies

[Livia]

With a minimum of 4 more years still to come of severe austerity cuts again at least.
Which were all supposed to be done with by 2014/5 on this lots 2010 policies.

Doesn't sound much like even just a fair recovery,never mind a good recovery to me either.

To be fair joey, Labour left the finances is a massive state, spending money they didn't have, borrowing more, and now they're demanding the Tories not only clear up their mess but they've put a time limit on it! Ridiculous really.

[joeysteele]

To be fair joey, Labour left the finances is a massive state, spending money they didn't have, borrowing more, and now they're demanding the Tories not only clear up their mess but they've put a time limit on it! Ridiculous really.

To be fair,no matter what govt; had been in when the banking and financial crisis hit, not just the UK but most of the global financial world too,would have left some big problem to deal with after it.

I believe the Conservative party if in govt; in 2008,would have too bailed out the banks, the pressure from people with bank accounts would have been too great not to.
In fact, that crisis could have been worse that hit the UK, as the then Conservative opposition led by David Cameron wanted 'less' regulation of the banks,not 'more'.

Labour should have built up good reserve to fall back on I agree,however they presided over 11 years of unprecedented growth in the UK,between 1997 and 2007,with no hint of recession until this worldwide crisis hit.
No one foresaw it coming really either and certainly not on the scale it did.

The Conservative way to deal with recession is usually to allow unemployment to soar,(unemployment a price worth paying), that is likely the route they would have taken had they been in govt; in 2008 but I say again, I still think for sure they too would have had to invest in and bail,out the banks.

So Labour left a big financial mess to sort out,no argument at all there, the Conservatives however would have,I believe, left the UK with a massive human cost as to jobs lost and livelihoods shattered via unemployment to sort out, with then likely millions of people left on the unemployment scrapheap for 5 to 10 years or even more.


It was also the Conservative party in 2010,no one else, that said it would sort things out in 5 years and have the deficit cleared by 2015.
Labour planned to only halve the deficit over 4 years, making no major cuts in the first year after 2010 and making at least 20% less cuts.
They did have the UK out of recession and have growth in place of around 1% by the end of 2009 and early 2010.

It is only this govt; that set the target of having things cleared up by its savage and extreme austerity programme over the 5 years from 2010 to 2015.
Even the Lib Dems in 2010 were saying the deficit didn't need to be cleared in 5 years it could be done much more slowly over time.

It is David Cameron and George Osborne who set the time frame for success in sorting things out, no one else, and they have failed as they are only halfway there at best.
Now they are asking for the same time again, to do the same things, to achieve that same first target they set in 2010.

A Uni lecturer once said to us, there are no prizes for failure.
Well for me this govt; has failed and to say it intends to inflict even more cuts and austerity measures for at least another 4 years,with only at best half off the deficit, on an altered measuring of how the deficit is now calculated from how it was measured in 2010.
That amounts to me, not just failure but failure on a grand scale.

Having failed to realise their unfairly planned austerity measures have probably in part stifled success rather than really been instrumental in helping success.
The worst part was them not planning for the austerity measures failing by having a back up plan to counteract unnecessary and heartless effects on those most vulnerable.
That is something that to me is unforgivable,especialy when they are being told by endless support gorups and charities and organisations.

All govts; get things wrong, all the time, no matter their makeup.
However,punishing,trampling and scapegoating the weakest in any society is however the lowest of the low as to things to carry out.
For me it is anyway.

[Livia]

Great post as always joey. Don't agree with all of it though. Labour mismanaged money on a gargantuan scale and they do it every time they get in. Then the Tories get back in and make massive, unpopular cuts but manage to get the economy back on track so that by the time Labour get back in the coffers are full once again and Labour can spend it all again. I am very uncomfortable with a lot of the things the Tories have done in the last few years but that doesn't mean that Labour have suddenly started to get it right, because they haven't. And they won't. They need a new leader for a start in my opinion or they are doomed. But anyway, great post with good points as usual.

[Nedusa]

If the Country doesn't have the money , it doesn't have the money. No amount of fiddling around with the Budget is going to hide that fact. New Labour tried to increase immigration to increase productivity and try and grow the Country back into the black, the Tories have taken more of a austerity approach where they cut public services and reduced welfare spending and spending on the NHS.

Both approaches are flawed and hurt the very people who are expecting the quality of their lives to improve.

Nobody has really gotten to grips with the unpaid tax issue of Big Banks and Multi Nationals. There must be billions of unpaid tax owed to the treasury but the Tories are all in bed with these Companies and will not risk upsetting them.

Meanwhile another year and public borrowing continues unapaced forever increasing our national Debt to record levels.

The rich become richer and poor become poorer and the middle classes the tax payers are promised jam tomorrow but tomorrow never comes.

bottom line we are not a wealthy Country and cannot afford to project ourselves as one.

We should as a nation should have a serious debate about our place in the world and question our spending on Trident and our massive outlay to the EU.

Meanwhile the immigration game has failed with the infrastructure and services of all our major cities hopelessly clogged up.

It's a mess and it's getting worse, and taking 1p off a pint of Beer is no real solution.

[Livia]

Got to agree with the majority of that Nedusa, except the bit about us not being a rich country. There's more than enough to go round, but those who have it don't want to part with it. Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything else.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the Country doesn't have the money , it doesn't have the money. No amount of fiddling around with the Budget is going to hide that fact. New Labour tried to increase immigration to increase productivity and try and grow the Country back into the black, the Tories have taken more of a austerity approach where they cut public services and reduced welfare spending and spending on the NHS.

Both approaches are flawed and hurt the very people who are expecting the quality of their lives to improve.

Nobody has really gotten to grips with the unpaid tax issue of Big Banks and Multi Nationals. There must be billions of unpaid tax owed to the treasury but the Tories are all in bed with these Companies and will not risk upsetting them.

Meanwhile another year and public borrowing continues unapaced forever increasing our national Debt to record levels.

The rich become richer and poor become poorer and the middle classes the tax payers are promised jam tomorrow but tomorrow never comes.

bottom line we are not a wealthy Country and cannot afford to project ourselves as one.

We should as a nation should have a serious debate about our place in the world and question our spending on Trident and our massive outlay to the EU.

Meanwhile the immigration game has failed with the infrastructure and services of all our major cities hopelessly clogged up.

It's a mess and it's getting worse, and taking 1p off a pint of Beer is no real solution.


:nono:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-31944621


2% cut on whisky excise duty will free many Scots from poverty

I am intending to celebrate this fact at the weekend with some Teachers


( and by that I dont mean the ones who work for half a year and moan about it for the other half)

[Kizzy]

To be fair,no matter what govt; had been in when the banking and financial crisis hit, not just the UK but most of the global financial world too,would have left some big problem to deal with after it.

I believe the Conservative party if in govt; in 2008,would have too bailed out the banks, the pressure from people with bank accounts would have been too great not to.
In fact, that crisis could have been worse that hit the UK, as the then Conservative opposition led by David Cameron wanted 'less' regulation of the banks,not 'more'.

Labour should have built up good reserve to fall back on I agree,however they presided over 11 years of unprecedented growth in the UK,between 1997 and 2007,with no hint of recession until this worldwide crisis hit.
No one foresaw it coming really either and certainly not on the scale it did.

The Conservative way to deal with recession is usually to allow unemployment to soar,(unemployment a price worth paying), that is likely the route they would have taken had they been in govt; in 2008 but I say again, I still think for sure they too would have had to invest in and bail,out the banks.

So Labour left a big financial mess to sort out,no argument at all there, the Conservatives however would have,I believe, left the UK with a massive human cost as to jobs lost and livelihoods shattered via unemployment to sort out, with then likely millions of people left on the unemployment scrapheap for 5 to 10 years or even more.


It was also the Conservative party in 2010,no one else, that said it would sort things out in 5 years and have the deficit cleared by 2015.
Labour planned to only halve the deficit over 4 years, making no major cuts in the first year after 2010 and making at least 20% less cuts.
They did have the UK out of recession and have growth in place of around 1% by the end of 2009 and early 2010.

It is only this govt; that set the target of having things cleared up by its savage and extreme austerity programme over the 5 years from 2010 to 2015.
Even the Lib Dems in 2010 were saying the deficit didn't need to be cleared in 5 years it could be done much more slowly over time.

It is David Cameron and George Osborne who set the time frame for success in sorting things out, no one else, and they have failed as they are only halfway there at best.
Now they are asking for the same time again, to do the same things, to achieve that same first target they set in 2010.

A Uni lecturer once said to us, there are no prizes for failure.
Well for me this govt; has failed and to say it intends to inflict even more cuts and austerity measures for at least another 4 years,with only at best half off the deficit, on an altered measuring of how the deficit is now calculated from how it was measured in 2010.
That amounts to me, not just failure but failure on a grand scale.

Having failed to realise their unfairly planned austerity measures have probably in part stifled success rather than really been instrumental in helping success.
The worst part was them not planning for the austerity measures failing by having a back up plan to counteract unnecessary and heartless effects on those most vulnerable.
That is something that to me is unforgivable,especialy when they are being told by endless support gorups and charities and organisations.

All govts; get things wrong, all the time, no matter their makeup.
However,punishing,trampling and scapegoating the weakest in any society is however the lowest of the low as to things to carry out.
For me it is anyway.

Fantastic post joey! How much have the welfare reforms actually saved, that would be interesting to know, I wonder if it's as much as IDS has spent?

"The Department for Work and Pensions has spent £700 million on Universal Credit since the programme began in 2010. However, very little progress has been achieved on the front line. Fewer than 18,000 people were claiming Universal Credit by October 2014, out of around seven million expected in the longer term – just 0.3% of the eligible population.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-accounts-committee/news/report-universal-credit-progress-update/

[joeysteele]

Fantastic post joey! How much have the welfare reforms actually saved, that would be interesting to know, I wonder if it's as much as IDS has spent?

"The Department for Work and Pensions has spent £700 million on Universal Credit since the programme began in 2010. However, very little progress has been achieved on the front line. Fewer than 18,000 people were claiming Universal Credit by October 2014, out of around seven million expected in the longer term – just 0.3% of the eligible population.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-accounts-committee/news/report-universal-credit-progress-update/

Firstly thank you Livia, for your comments as to my post above,(sorry it was so long), well one of them anyway:joker:
I love how we can be on different sides yet hold massive respect for the others view without any sarcasm and unnecessary tit for tat.
You know too I hope, that although I don't agree with you as to the Conservatives now, I do respect your views and I also can take a lot on board that you say too.
So thank you again.

Now Kizzy, I have little doubt the welfare reforms are costing way more than anything saved.
I really also, unless they were even more heartless and stupid enough to do so,believe that it will stay that way unless they actually slashed benefit entitlements.
If they are not going to remove from the more well off pensioners for example,the winter fuel allowance and other extra benefits, then they will have to hit those relying on benefits.
They cannot possibly reduce the welfare bill any other way as pensions and the extra's to that, make up the greater bill for welfare anyway.

So I cannot see where the reforms are ever going to bring in anything worthwhile at all.

I also don't like the idea of Universal credit either, it is costing way too much too,it is behind schedule despite what Ian Duncan Smith would tell us, in most places it is operating only for new claimants.
There is the massive backlog of existing claimants, and all that will cost, to get through yet.

I hate its proposal that those claiming it will be paid every 4 weeks.these are benefits for goodness sake, not actual wages.
I also disagree strongly with for those on housing benefit and cpuncil tax rebate, that it will be paid directly to the claimant and not to the local authority or landlord.
That is going to cause really big problems in my view.

The old system, in my view, from what I have come across, just needed tightening up, not having payments of different benefits all paid on different days of the week.
Universal credit will do that but claimanats should have the option of being paid weekly, fortnightly or monthly, not have it forced on them.
In my recent work, I came across someone who got pension credit on a monday,their ESA on a thursday and their DLA paid monthly on a Wednesday.
Crazy,absolutely crazy.

These are badly thought out welfare reforms, that have caused massive confusion and distress to claimants.
Saving very little, in relation to the welfare bill overall in the long run but costing near the earth to do.
You are right to point out the slow progress of Universal credit, which means even more delays and problems due the ime involved in setting it up for people actually in need.

This is an area of funding that even Margaret Thatcher pulled back from, as to changing it too much.
After seeing the chaos from Ian Duncan Smith's reforms, it is easy to see why she largely left it be too.
Take in the costs too of those who have had their benefit cut or stopped altogether, who have then had to wait almost up to a year at times to get it sorted in court,with the ruling then that the cut or stopping them was wrong.
All the costs of putting that right must eat further into anything saved as benefits.

I also for the life of me, cannot see why we have to pay multi millions to an American company to re-assess our claimants,in order to in effect likely save a pittance as opposed to what it will all cost to do.
Far better take on more jobcentre staff and move more experienced staff up to do such re-assessments for the DWP.

[joeysteele]

If the Country doesn't have the money , it doesn't have the money. No amount of fiddling around with the Budget is going to hide that fact. New Labour tried to increase immigration to increase productivity and try and grow the Country back into the black, the Tories have taken more of a austerity approach where they cut public services and reduced welfare spending and spending on the NHS.

Both approaches are flawed and hurt the very people who are expecting the quality of their lives to improve.

Nobody has really gotten to grips with the unpaid tax issue of Big Banks and Multi Nationals. There must be billions of unpaid tax owed to the treasury but the Tories are all in bed with these Companies and will not risk upsetting them.

Meanwhile another year and public borrowing continues unapaced forever increasing our national Debt to record levels.

The rich become richer and poor become poorer and the middle classes the tax payers are promised jam tomorrow but tomorrow never comes.

bottom line we are not a wealthy Country and cannot afford to project ourselves as one.

We should as a nation should have a serious debate about our place in the world and question our spending on Trident and our massive outlay to the EU.

Meanwhile the immigration game has failed with the infrastructure and services of all our major cities hopelessly clogged up.

It's a mess and it's getting worse, and taking 1p off a pint of Beer is no real solution.

First class post.
However I support Trident and also being in the EU,although I think all govt;s should autmatically always be negotiating for better terms from the EU.

The banking sector is largely responsible for the ills we find the UK has now and for me they have still got off very lightly under this govt:

There has been a lot of 'lip service' from David Cameron and co as to the banks but liitle in the way of serious action.
You made a realy strong point as to that Nedusa, well said.

The 1p off a pint of beer and other alcohol, is unbelievable,when the NHS is flooded with having to cope with peoplel with alcohol related serious health conditions.
Making things cheaper will only help make that far worse and drain the NHS further in my view.

[joeysteele]

Anyway back to the budget,now today we have had Danny Alexander in the commons setting out in part a different Lib Dem way rather than what the Chancellor announced yesterday.

This was supposed to be a 'coalition' budget wasn't it? Surely that is a little out of order for a govt; Minister to have tried to do that in the debate in the commons.
I know it is a long time since the Lib Dems had any power in the UK but surely he has to stand behind this budget and its contents as presented yesterday, since he is part of the Ministerial team that actually produced it.

[Kizzy]

All these private overseas companies are the key as it will be impossible to trace who they have involvements with, and I would bet that the elite in our government are well in there creaming offshore their share.
They don't care, they want the old, ill, disabled and mentally incapable to just die...
There's plenty of others to take their place when they shuffle off, there is no such thing as society.
Soon there will be no welfare state and it will be every man for himself once again, and the last 100yrs will have gone full circle as we are dangerously close to many many people living as they would during the depression.

[joeysteele]

All these private overseas companies are the key as it will be impossible to trace who they have involvements with, and I would bet that the elite in our government are well in there creaming offshore their share.
They don't care, they want the old, ill, disabled and mentally incapable to just die...
There's plenty of others to take their place when they shuffle off, there is no such thing as society.
Soon there will be no welfare state and it will be every man for himself once again, and the last 100yrs will have gone full circle as we are dangerously close to many many people living as they would during the depression.

A dark picture indeed there Kizzy but I think near the truth as well.

The rhetoric as to the most vulnerable, as to scapegoating and demonising them, has never been allowed to get as bad as it has under this coalition govt; who also have in fact fuelled that demonisation of them too a fair amount of the time.

[the truth]

VAT is the single biggest hole in the tory lies. Thatcher doubled it and the tories again here raised it 5%.......this vile tax is a tax on the poor, it has no effect on the rich at all and keeps all small businesses small

[user104658]

VAT is the single biggest hole in the tory lies. Thatcher doubled it and the tories again here raised it 5%.......this vile tax is a tax on the poor, it has no effect on the rich at all and keeps all small businesses small
I personally have no problem with VAT raises within reason SO LONG AS, hand in hand with that, essentials are exempt. Food, basic clothing, household products etc... They could also introduce things like tax breaks on economical, reasonably priced cars that wouldn't apply to the top end vehicles.

Basically a tax on luxury items. It then scales quite well with income. You have more money for non essentials, you spend more money, you pay more tax.

I'm not even saying this selfishly - I spend a quite obscene amount per year on "techy ****" like TVs, phones, tablets, laptops, computer components and parts, games consoles, games... And I genuinely wouldn't mind that much if an extra 5% was whacked on all of the above, so long as everyday items are left out of the equation.

[user104658]

All these private overseas companies are the key as it will be impossible to trace who they have involvements with, and I would bet that the elite in our government are well in there creaming offshore their share.
They don't care, they want the old, ill, disabled and mentally incapable to just die...
There's plenty of others to take their place when they shuffle off, there is no such thing as society.
Soon there will be no welfare state and it will be every man for himself once again, and the last 100yrs will have gone full circle as we are dangerously close to many many people living as they would during the depression.
The thing is, they can't afford to dismantle the welfare state without forcing their buddy private companies to dramatically increase wages. A huge chunk of the welfare state is in-work top ups paid to families in employment, and they are essential. If you remove them, you remove vast swathes of people from the consumer economy - they won't have any money to buy all of the frivolous tat that keeps the capitalist world ticking. And they won't be available as a low-priced workforce. The government knows this. That is why they repeatedly and viciously target the unemployed and the disabled. They are worth far less to the "system". And that's why it's pointless because the vast majority of benefits are in work benefits and pensions.

[Kizzy]

Then where will the 12 billion welfare savings come from? That's the 12 billion dollar question...

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10118178.ece/alternates/w460/Spending%20forecast%20OBR.JPG

Mr Osborne has said he would find the vast bulk of the savings by cutting welfare spending by £12 billion and clamping down on tax avoidance.
But the head of the influential think tank the Institute for Fiscal Studies said he had failed to set out his plans in sufficient detail.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/budget-2015-wheres-the-money-coming-from-george-10118830.html

[Livia]

I personally have no problem with VAT raises within reason SO LONG AS, hand in hand with that, essentials are exempt. Food, basic clothing, household products etc... They could also introduce things like tax breaks on economical, reasonably priced cars that wouldn't apply to the top end vehicles.

Basically a tax on luxury items. It then scales quite well with income. You have more money for non essentials, you spend more money, you pay more tax.

I'm not even saying this selfishly - I spend a quite obscene amount per year on "techy ****" like TVs, phones, tablets, laptops, computer components and parts, games consoles, games... And I genuinely wouldn't mind that much if an extra 5% was whacked on all of the above, so long as everyday items are left out of the equation.

I'd vote for that.

[Kizzy]

The VAT increase the tories brought in as soon as they came into power from 17.5% to 20% meant straight away an extra £33 on food bills, where you pay it for 'non essentials' and yet VAT is on mobility aids for the elderly and sanitary products but not the lottery, betting or bingo.
Guess what else it's not on now?...

'Government outsourcing is expected to increase after the coalition removed VAT charges for private sector bidders on public sector contracts'

That's good on two counts, they can sell off more of the NHS and there will be less of a paper trail back to them so we'll be less likely to find out they're directly profiting from it.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/274999e0-cd7a-11e4-a15a-00144feab7de.html#axzz3UvwtmVRh

[Kazanne]

Great post as always joey. Don't agree with all of it though. Labour mismanaged money on a gargantuan scale and they do it every time they get in. Then the Tories get back in and make massive, unpopular cuts but manage to get the economy back on track so that by the time Labour get back in the coffers are full once again and Labour can spend it all again. I am very uncomfortable with a lot of the things the Tories have done in the last few years but that doesn't mean that Labour have suddenly started to get it right, because they haven't. And they won't. They need a new leader for a start in my opinion or they are doomed. But anyway, great post with good points as usual.

100% agree with this Livia,Conservatives will always get more flack as they are the ones that have to be cruel to be kind.

[joeysteele]

100% agree with this Livia,Conservatives will always get more flack as they are the ones that have to be cruel to be kind.

Nothing wrong at all at times in having to be cruel to be kind. however just being cruel is a very different thing altogether.

I have seen absolute devastation to people lives who have cancer and other serious illneses, are severely disabled, even who are incurably and terminally ill.
Having benefits cut or stopped altogether due to heartlessly cruel welfare reforms,which have not an ounce of kindness attached or as the final oucome to the reforms either.
People so ill, they have had to end up in court with a legal team to help win back what was taken wrongly off them.
That is not being cruel to be kind, that is being plain cruel only.

If you would think that is acceptable then fine.That has to be your choice and I fully rspect that,however I say again, it is 'just' being cruel, not being cruel to be kind.
For me, I believe whenever there is a need to be 'cruel to be kind' that one thing that must always be ensured, is that the most vulnerable that even just could, never mind would, be affected by any decisions, are fully isolated and protected from unjust and too severe results from such policies.

Now Ian Duncan Smith and this govt; have been told week after week, year after year of how the reforms to welfare are hitting hardest those in genuine need the worst.
No matter who tells them, the medical professions, charities who are trying to pick up the pieces of the chaos caused, welfare groups and the CAB too.
All dismissed with total arrogance.

That isn't being cruel to be kind, that is wilful vindictiveness against the weakest in society.
You know this lot would bring fox hunting with dogs back, odd mentality to even want to do that but then I look at the policies of this govt and realise likely many people really genuinely ill, some with limited time, feel like they are being hunted too by this govt,the heartless policies being the pack mentality,no compassion for the distress caused meantime and no compassion at the end too.

On paper, I should have actually been a Conservative voter, for my sins I nearly was in 2010 as I almost believed David Cameron when he said there would be no top down re-organisation of the NHS.

He blatantly lied as to that and seeing the devastation he and this govt; have brought to innocent, poor and genuinely sick and disabled peoples lives leaves me feeling content, I didn't trust him.

I don't believe in rewards for failure, injustice and blatant lies,3 things this govt; are riddled with and I will despair if these get the chance to cut yet another 12 billion pound off the welfare budget after seeing how they chose to do so over the last 5 years.
They have said they are not going to do so by touching pensioners and the related extra entitlements all pensioners get, so that only leave the jobless and sick and disabled left.

I see not a single flash of anything in the way of compassion or compromise as to the policies on welfare reform,nothing at all.
They have already gone way too far in my view,and now it appears need to go even further to make up cuts they need to cover this budget they have just presented.

Really, it is a massive case of all powers that be, to help the poorest, weakest, most vulnerable,sick, disabled including those incurably or terminally ill, if they have to suffer more cuts the way they have these last 5 years under this govt:

It may well be in May that this heartless shower,hold most of the votes they got in 2010, however thankfully that was nowhere near enough to win them the election outright and I hope that is the case again.

Since for me,despite supporting the coalition at the start in 2010/11, all I have come across in my time at Uni and in my work afterwards has filled me with dismay at how they can be so cruel, with not an ounce of any kindness whatsover included in the policy making or as the end result.

It is votes like mine they need to win and also get others back too to win outright.
When the Conservatives have a leader that is fair and just, will show compassion to the weakest and most vulnerable in UK society again,and also not tell blatant lies as he did on the NHS,then one day I may consider looking at them again.
I could have never predicted or even thought possible in 2010, that any govt; elected in the UK could actually be so cruel to the weakest and most vulnerable.
It will stun me and leave me massively disillusioned as to politics if voters reward this PM and this govt for doing so.
Talk about kicking dogs when they are down, that is exactly how this govt; has treated the most vulnerable and I have seen it and been happy to try to help pick up the pieces as best I can for more than several peoples lives when possible.

[Kizzy]

Yeah kaz..... wot he said! :laugh: