Gamergate

[Kizzy]

What is your view on depression quest?

http://www.depressionquest.com/


'Until recently, you might have lived a life blissfully unaware of the online #Gamergate movement. But last week, computing giant Intel pulled its ads from an independent game-development site thanks to the gaming lobby. Now that major companies are taking sides, it's time to figure it out. Let us be your guides.'

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

[Scarlett.]

I find the whole thing absolutely ridiculous, both sides need to grow the hell up. They're both acting as bad as each other.

[Niamh.]

I got about half way through that explanation and gave up lol Basically, this woman who made a game about depression was being harassed by "gamers" (what are these? just video game players?) because they don't like women being involved in video games?

[Scarlett.]

I got about half way through that explanation and gave up lol Basically, this woman who made a game about depression was being harassed by "gamers" (what are these? just video game players?) because they don't like women being involved in video games?

That's pretty much what it started, but it has become such an ugly convoluted mess that all the normal people who play video games are tired of.

[Niamh.]

this comment did make me laugh a bit though :hehe:

Too long.

"What is #GamerGate?"

"Ever met a dip**** teenager who thought he was oppressed? This is another form of that."

[Niamh.]

That's pretty much what it started, but it has become such an ugly convoluted mess that all the normal people who play video games are tired of.

What do these people just ............not play her game if they don't like it? :laugh:

[Scarlett.]

What do these people just ............not play her game if they don't like it? :laugh:

I really don't know, there seems to be a popular thing at the moment with people constantly whinging about games they don't like, and overreacting to games they don't like.

[Niamh.]

I really don't know, there seems to be a popular thing at the moment with people constantly whinging about games they don't like, and overreacting to games they don't like.

That's just really strange, just don't buy the thing then, it's not rocket science, is it? :laugh:

[Scarlett.]

That's just really strange, just don't buy the thing then, it's not rocket science, is it? :laugh:

I think there was more to the Depression Quest thing, I heard stuff about the creator apparently sleeping with a reviewer or something, but I didn't really pay attention to it all. It's just all really odd. :laugh:

[MTVN]

This sounds like something I'll never be interested in

[Kizzy]

It's actually really interesting it's more like an interactive novel than a game, not something your average grand theft auto player would be into I suppose.

[Niamh.]

It's actually really interesting it's more like an interactive novel than a game, not something your average grand theft auto player would be into I suppose.

I've been reading through the comments below the article and I'm getting a better grip of the situation from there. Sounds like another case of people thinking they're untouchable behind their computer screens and behaving in a repulsive way, this type of trolling and speaking to and about people in that kind of way seems to almost be like a game in itself, that's quite worrying

[Kizzy]

I agree, it's abuse whichever way you look at it.
Have you had a go at playing it? It's a bit real for me and had to turn it of :laugh:

[Niamh.]

I agree, it's abuse whichever way you look at it.
Have you had a go at playing it? It's a bit real for me and had to turn it of :laugh:

Which? That depression Quest game? No lol, I'm as far from being a "gamer" as you can get, I haven't played a game like that since Sonic and Mario were popular :laugh:

[user104658]

It's actually really interesting it's more like an interactive novel than a game, not something your average grand theft auto player would be into I suppose.

Ignorance Kizzy! Grand Theft Auto, since San Andreas at least (so the last 3 full games) if you play the game "properly" through the storyline rather than just mindlessly blowing stuff to bits, it's actually a very intelligent game full of pop culture mockery, political commentary and satire.

I actually think they're brilliant games for teens to play, if they're subliminally taking in the messages being offered.

:hmph:

[Kizzy]

Which? That depression Quest game? No lol, I'm as far from being a "gamer" as you can get, I haven't played a game like that since Sonic and Mario were popular :laugh:

Honestly Niamh neither am I, just have a look.
I clicked back on and finished it... bit choked tbh.
Those dumb, drone minded gamers :fist:

[Kizzy]

Ignorance Kizzy! Grand Theft Auto, since San Andreas at least (so the last 3 full games) if you play the game "properly" through the storyline rather than just mindlessly blowing stuff to bits, it's actually a very intelligent game full of pop culture mockery, political commentary and satire.

I actually think they're brilliant games for teens to play, if they're subliminally taking in the messages being offered.

:hmph:

I thought the whole concept of being subliminally influenced by a video game was a fallacy?... :suspect:

[Tom4784]

They're just a bunch of morons who perpetuate the gamer stereotype in the worst possible way. Fedora wearing losers with bad necksweat that blame all women because they're too repulsive inside and out to get a girlfriend.

[user104658]

I thought the whole concept of being subliminally influenced by a video game was a fallacy?... :suspect:
I don't mean manipulated or programmed, I mean that it offers some quite overt messages about the establishment, authority, politics and western culture. The sort of things that many teens aren't naturally inclined to seek out - so it's a massive positive if they encounter these ideas when they're "just gaming".

[Kizzy]

I don't mean manipulated or programmed, I mean that it offers some quite overt messages about the establishment, authority, politics and western culture. The sort of things that many teens aren't naturally inclined to seek out - so it's a massive positive if they encounter these ideas when they're "just gaming".

Oh, so they're a medium to influence young minds? I never thought a game about raping and killing people could be used in such a interesting and informative way.

[user104658]

Oh, so they're a medium to influence young minds? I never thought a game about raping and killing people could be used in such a interesting and informative way.
That's what I mean by ignorance, Kizzy... Grand theft auto isn't about raping and killing people. You CAN indiscriminately kill people, I'm sure a lot of people do, but you're not supposed to.

Its OK if you don't "get it" though Kizzy. The Media has been demonising gaming for years and GTA has taken a major chunk of it. It's OK that you've just accepted everything you've read or heard without actually having any clue about gaming as a creative medium. Totes OK.

[Tom4784]

Oh, so they're a medium to influence young minds? I never thought a game about raping and killing people could be used in such a interesting and informative way.

There's no raping to be found in GTA and you face consequences for killing indiscriminately.

Do you not think that something that contains violence cannot be informative or otherwise inspirational? Do you hold films and TV shows to the same standards?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://acidcow.com/pics/20111028/famous_movies_01.gif

[Kizzy]

There's no raping to be found in GTA and you face consequences for killing indiscriminately.

Do you not think that something that contains violence cannot be informative or otherwise inspirational? Do you hold films and TV shows to the same standards?

I read about it a while ago and made reference to it, I don't hold anything to a standard I was objecting to the inference that they were a positive influence and an aid to heighten awareness of social and political issues via satire is all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11030801/Grand-Theft-Auto-video-game-male-avatars-are-virtually-raping-women.html

[Kizzy]

That's what I mean by ignorance, Kizzy... Grand theft auto isn't about raping and killing people. You CAN indiscriminately kill people, I'm sure a lot of people do, but you're not supposed to.

Its OK if you don't "get it" though Kizzy. The Media has been demonising gaming for years and GTA has taken a major chunk of it. It's OK that you've just accepted everything you've read or heard without actually having any clue about gaming as a creative medium. Totes OK.

My opinion of GTA isn't really the issue or relevant to the thread, I could've used any number of violent video game as an example.... If not being au fait with these games makes me ignorant then yes I am, and happy to be thankyou.
Can we get back to my topic now?

[user104658]

My opinion of GTA isn't really the issue or relevant to the thread, I could've used any number of violent video game as an example.... If not being au fait with these games makes me ignorant then yes I am, and happy to be thankyou.
Can we get back to my topic now?
You can, I'll pass.

[Kizzy]

Ok :thumbs:

[Tom4784]

I read about it a while ago and made reference to it, I don't hold anything to a standard I was objecting to the inference that they were a positive influence and an aid to heighten awareness of social and political issues via satire is all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11030801/Grand-Theft-Auto-video-game-male-avatars-are-virtually-raping-women.html

Oh, a mod. Well there's nothing you could do about that. It's not a part of the game. It's something that's created and added by an individual.

You could mod a Peppa Pig game so that she goes around killing people and doing heroin but you wouldn't say that Peppa Pig endorses any of those things would you?

You can't hold developers responsible for what other people decide to do with their game in response to mods.

[Scarlett.]

In regards to Gamergate... there's nothing really to discuss, other than the internet being the internet.

Other than this, gives an idea of what kind of people are involved in the whole silly arguement

jYPC-YMdJFI

[Kizzy]

In regards to Gamergate... there's nothing really to discuss, other than the internet being the internet.

Other than this, gives an idea of what kind of people are involved in the whole silly arguement

jYPC-YMdJFI

Lordy..... :/ that's disturbing.

[user104658]

In regards to Gamergate... there's nothing really to discuss, other than the internet being the internet.


This is very true. Gamergate is an "internet problem", not a "gaming problem".

[Kizzy]

E47-FMmMLy0

'There is a war going on in video games right now. Not on the screen for once, but on forums and in the comments sections of specialist games news sites like Kotaku and Polygon. It is a war between self-identifying “gamers” and video game critics. And like most wars it is chaotic, damaging and depressing.'

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/03/gamergate-corruption-games-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn

[Niamh.]

This is very true. Gamergate is an "internet problem", not a "gaming problem".

That's what it sounds like alright

[MessiahCarey]

It's basically a bunch of dumb, straight white boys who are mad that the girls they bully and harass online won't date them and now hate every single female on earth

I can't wait till they finally move out of their moms basement at 37 and finally experience the real world where you can't hide behind a keyboard

[Kizzy]

This is very true. Gamergate is an "internet problem", not a "gaming problem".

Could you expand on this please, are you saying that gamers involved in #gamergate behave the way everyone using the internet does?

[user104658]

Could you expand on this please, are you saying that gamers involved in #gamergate behave the way everyone using the internet does?
Not everyone, but not all gamers are involved in Gamergate. There are people on forums for any topic you can think of who get involved in "flaming wars" and keyboard battles. People behaving that way is certainly not restricted to gaming. I ran a parenting forum for several years and all it really taught me is that when pushed, sometimes even only a little bit, people online are ****ing awful to each other in ways that they would never dream of in the "real world".

During the Big Brother seasons it can start to get pretty messy on TiBB, even. Especially regarding divisive things e.g. Helen Wood. It doesn't get too out of hand because TiBB is small enough to be very actively moderated. If it was poorly moderated or unmoderated, I can only imagine the things that people would start saying about each other.

With gamergate you have a multitude of problems. Lots of immature teens getting involved who have grown up in the "troll generation", the fact that the whole issue has been hijacked by a massive lump of mostly unnecessary aggressive feminism (one of the messiness topics online), along with what I mentioned before: gaming is historically a favourite "buzz topic" for media hysterics. It was a bit of a perfect storm.

Beyond all of that, when it comes to the actual games, there aren't any huge issues. Even with online multiplayer, in my experience. There are small groups of idiots but aren't there always? Everywhere?

[JoshBB]

most gamers do tend to have little friends and this is why

[Tom4784]

It's basically a bunch of dumb, straight white boys who are mad that the girls they bully and harass online won't date them and now hate every single female on earth

I can't wait till they finally move out of their moms basement at 37 and finally experience the real world where you can't hide behind a keyboard

Preach.

[Kizzy]

Not everyone, but not all gamers are involved in Gamergate. There are people on forums for any topic you can think of who get involved in "flaming wars" and keyboard battles. People behaving that way is certainly not restricted to gaming. I ran a parenting forum for several years and all it really taught me is that when pushed, sometimes even only a little bit, people online are ****ing awful to each other in ways that they would never dream of in the "real world".

During the Big Brother seasons it can start to get pretty messy on TiBB, even. Especially regarding divisive things e.g. Helen Wood. It doesn't get too out of hand because TiBB is small enough to be very actively moderated. If it was poorly moderated or unmoderated, I can only imagine the things that people would start saying about each other.

With gamergate you have a multitude of problems. Lots of immature teens getting involved who have grown up in the "troll generation", the fact that the whole issue has been hijacked by a massive lump of mostly unnecessary aggressive feminism (one of the messiness topics online), along with what I mentioned before: gaming is historically a favourite "buzz topic" for media hysterics. It was a bit of a perfect storm.

Beyond all of that, when it comes to the actual games, there aren't any huge issues. Even with online multiplayer, in my experience. There are small groups of idiots but aren't there always? Everywhere?

I specifically said the gamers involved in gamergate.

[user104658]

I specifically said the gamers involved in gamergate.
You specifically asked if they behave like "everyone using the Internet", actually. I was saying that, no, they aren't like everyone using the Internet - but they are not representative of the vast majority of gamers, and there are plenty of people using the Internet who are just like them but are NOT gamers.

Or, to reiterate, "It's an Internet / keyboard warrior problem, not a gaming problem".

[Samuel.]

most gamers do tend to have little friends and this is why

Not sure if trolling or actually aware your speaking about over a quarter of the UK population.

[Kizzy]

You specifically asked if they behave like "everyone using the Internet", actually. I was saying that, no, they aren't like everyone using the Internet - but they are not representative of the vast majority of gamers, and there are plenty of people using the Internet who are just like them but are NOT gamers.

Or, to reiterate, "It's an Internet / keyboard warrior problem, not a gaming problem".

Yes I did... because you said it was an internet problem, not a gaming problem.

It is a small percentage of internet users and a significantly larger percentage of gamers ergo it's more of a gaming issue than an internet one imo.

Anyone can be a keyboard warrior, man or woman.. I can see that but the specific issue of sexism is being highlighted as a problem area specifically within gaming.

[Scarlett.]

Yes I did... because you said it was an internet problem, not a gaming problem.

It is a small percentage of internet users and a significantly larger percentage of gamers ergo it's more of a gaming issue than an internet one imo.

Anyone can be a keyboard warrior, man or woman.. I can see that but the specific issue of sexism is being highlighted as a problem area specifically within gaming.

http://i.imgur.com/xu4f51o.jpg

[Kizzy]

Gaming’s feminist advocate

'Anita Sarkeesian has played video games her whole life. In 2012, after observing that women represent about 40% of the gaming audience, she launched a crowdfunding campaign for Tropes vs. Women in Video Games, a web series that would “explore five common and recurring stereotypes of female characters in video games.” She hit her goal of $6,000 on the first day and ultimately raised more than $150,000. But she also became the target of vicious, misogynist harassment that included death and rape threats, pornographic vandalism of her Wikipedia page and a coordinated effort to have her Kickstarter flagged as terrorism. All of this because she wanted to have a conversation about the way women are portrayed in video games.
Anita is just the latest woman writer to prove the law coined by journalist Helen Lewis: that the sexist comments on any article about feminism justify feminism. In the face of hysterical and childish abuse, Anita has refused to back down. She continues to speak around the world about the role of women in video games and popular media. She also talks about her life as a target in the online culture war known as Gamergate, waged by entitled male gamers who fear change in an industry that is evolving while they seem determined to remain 15 forever.

Anita is a feminist for the digital age, using modern tools and platforms to engage thousands of people who want to hear her thoughts and respond to the challenges she raises. A lesser person may throw up her hands and unplug her game console, but Anita is determined to ensure that video games are inclusive and representative of everyone who plays them. As her detractors grow increasingly unhinged, we have proof that her efforts are working.'

http://time.com/3822727/anita-sarkeesian-2015-time-100/

[Samuel.]

I'm all for equal representation in games (obviously), and games can lack good strong female characters especially as protagonists, but Anita is terrible and finds things to complain about that simply don't exist. She causes more friction because of her often extreme and unfounded views than she does good.

A lot of the issues games suffer with in this respect are more or less represented in every medium and are not an exclusive issue to games.

[Samuel.]

most gamers do tend to have little friends and this is why

I still can't get over this post. I agree with a lot of your posts Josh, but this is all kinds of ignorant.

[BBfanUSA]

I still can't get over this post. I agree with a lot of your posts Josh, but this is all kinds of ignorant.
This, he hasn't been to any Comic Con has he? Where there's a good chunk of gamers involved

I'm all for equal representation in games (obviously), and games can lack good strong female characters especially as protagonists, but Anita is terrible and finds things to complain about that simply don't exist. She causes more friction because of her often extreme and unfounded views than she does good.

A lot of the issues games suffer with in this respect are more or less represented in every medium and are not an exclusive issue to games.

and this, this is why I hate most feminism and both sides of GG, which is why I try avoiding the topic as much as possible like the plague.