Passenger Plane gone down in French Alps

[Crimson Dynamo]

Germanwings A320 aircraft flying from Barcelona to Düsseldorf goes down in southern French Alps with 148 on board

A passenger plane for the airline Germanwings flying from Barcelona to Dusseldorf has crashed in southern France, officials have confirmed.

The Airbus A320 making the flight for Lufthansa’s lowcost arm, Germanwings, crashed near the small mountain village of Barcelonette in the southern Alps. It had made a distress call at 10.47am then disappeared off the radar at around 11.20am, Le Figaro reported.

The French TV station iTele said there had been at least 142 passengers and six crew-members on board.

Airbus said it is aware of the reports of a crash but could not confirm.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/german-a320-airbus-plane-crashes-french-alps

[Niamh.]

This is happening alot lately :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/46148e1fbf7b2e3dc3babe2fcb2f3e17907e61ae/388_162_3873_2325/1000.jpg

[arista]

This is happening alot lately :/


No its rare


This one is Tragic as its a Hi Tech plane
and all the tragic deaths

[Niamh.]

No its rare


This one is Tragic as its a Hi Tech plane
and all the tragic deaths

It's certainly happening more often

[Vanessa]

:o:dog:

[kirklancaster]

Terrible tragedy. I pray there's some survivors and hope that the cause is not sinister.

[MTVN]

Christ how awful, looks like there won't be any survivors

[kirklancaster]

It's certainly happening more often

I agree Niamh - It does seem to be anyway.

[Niamh.]

Terrible tragedy. I pray there's some survivors and hope that the cause is not sinister.

I know, it's a shame that that was the first thought that went through my head aswell

[Kizzy]

Oh no! :(

[DemolitionRed]

We have a house not far from here and I've climbed these mountains many times. At this time of year the tops of these mountains are an impossibly formidable terrain.

It sounds like the loss of altitude was catastrophic.

[Nedusa]

Terrible tragedy. I pray there's some survivors and hope that the cause is not sinister.

They hit a mountain at 460 mph Kirk, not much chance of any survivors I'm afraid....

Terribly sad.

[billy123]

This is happening alot lately :/
Out of the 85 million flights a year what do you consider a lot?
Put me on a plane any day rather than in a car.
Plane deaths are far more newsworthy than car deaths just because they are far far far far more rare so you hear about them on the news every time it happens.

[Niamh.]

Out of the 85 million flights a year what do you consider a lot?
Put me on a plane any day rather than in a car.

ah well yeah obviously, I just seem to be hearing more about plane crashes lately but maybe I'm wrong :shrug:

[bots]

ah well yeah obviously, I just seem to be hearing more about plane crashes lately but maybe I'm wrong :shrug:

For some odd reason these things do seem to come in cycles. Plane crashes do appear to happen in bunches, then its quiet for a while, then another bunch and so it goes on. No idea why.

[arista]

ah well yeah obviously, I just seem to be hearing more about plane crashes lately but maybe I'm wrong :shrug:


Yes you are wrong

[billy123]

If there was a news alert every time a total of 150 in the world had died in car crashes it would be more than endless! It wouldnt be possible to keep up.
But if its a plane occasionally its a drama.

[Crimson Dynamo]

somehow i would rather die in a car than in a plane

[Kizzy]

My mum always says these things happen in 3's.... :(

[billy123]

My mum always says these things happen in 3's.... :(well 1.2 million people a year die in car crashes so the 3 will be pretty much done by now. (that was figures from 5 years ago so it will be more now)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

[Crimson Dynamo]

My mum always says these things happen in 3's.... :(

so where are you starting from?

[Vanessa]

OMG Two babies were on board. :sad::bawling:

[Niamh.]

Yes you are wrong

Yeah well you're green

[Niamh.]

If there was a news alert every time a total of 150 in the world had died in car crashes it would be more than endless! It wouldnt be possible to keep up.
But if its a plane occasionally its a drama.

yes yes yes I'm well aware there are much much much much much more car crashes :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

They hit a mountain at 460 mph Kirk, not much chance of any survivors I'm afraid....

Terribly sad.

Sorry Nedusa, I didn't realise it was at that speed. I feel so sorry for the passengers families. Terrible.

[kirklancaster]

Out of the 85 million flights a year what do you consider a lot?
Put me on a plane any day rather than in a car.
Plane deaths are far more newsworthy than car deaths just because they are far far far far more rare so you hear about them on the news every time it happens.

Good point Bob - it probably is the fact that plane crashes are deemed more newsworthy because of the high death toll than car crashes, so that's why we are more aware of them. Thank God they're rare.

[Crimson Dynamo]

OMG Two babies were on board. :sad::bawling:

and 16 children

[BigSister]

Just so so sad. RIP to everyone who died.

[arista]

They must find out if the Plane was at Fault
as loads of those planes are flying today

[Cherie]

It is more likely to be pilot error as they were descending for 8 minutes and there was no distress call, or the plane was hijacked by terrorists who slammed it into a mountain, although I would have thought if it were terrorists they would have downed it in a residential area for maximum mayhem.

RIP to all on board.

[arista]

It Exploded in to bits (it may have)

Pilot Error?


Or a Bomb
on a timer that went to soon?

Terrorists could get on it
as it started in dodgy Spain

[Cherie]

Not followed the story didn't realise it exploded, but wouldn't it have exploded anyway if it hit a mountain? They are not very hot on security in Spain I agree

[DemolitionRed]

I'm watching the news now and it isn't saying anything about the aircraft exploding. Contact (air traffic control sighting) with the plane dropped off at 6000ft but that doesn't mean the plane exploded, it just means they were no longer able to see it on their radar.

[arista]

I'm watching the news now and it isn't saying anything about the aircraft exploding. Contact (air traffic control sighting) with the plane dropped off at 6000ft but that doesn't mean the plane exploded, it just means they were no longer able to see it on their radar.


Yes true

Black Box Found by France
good news on that

[DemolitionRed]

It looks like the plane came down in a culvert and culverts are particularly hazardous at this time of the year because of major rock fall. Its going to be a risky recovery operation.

[arista]

It looks like the plane came down in a culvert and culverts are particularly hazardous at this time of the year because of major rock fall. Its going to be a risky recovery operation.


I hope the Black Box now found
will tell us why it went down fast

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/24/article-3009151-26F40C7E00000578-11_964x405.jpg

[DemolitionRed]

I hope the Black Box now found
will tell us why it went down fast

I'm sure we will hear something fairly soon.

Those poor relatives and friends :(

[Cherie]

I know it's heartbreaking for all the victims families but I feel particularly sad for the families of the school children who were on a trip, I can only imagine how excited they were to welcome them home only for this horror to happen.

[Anaesthesia]

Flying over the Alps always makes me have my heart in my mouth, it's actually pretty scary. But I do agree with Niamh that aviation accidents do seem to have been more frequent in the last year... :(

[Vanessa]

Flying over the Alps always makes me have my heart in my mouth, it's actually pretty scary. But I do agree with Niamh that aviation accidents do seem to have been more frequent in the last year... :(

OMG I fly over the alps all the time! :o

[Anaesthesia]

OMG I fly over the alps all the time! :o

I take my hat off to you! On the rare occasions we ski in Europe I practically sh*t myself on those flights :laugh: My bf flies over them a lot more than me, he is from Turin...I usually excuse myself from those trips.

[smudgie]

So sad.

RIP to all the passengers and crew.

[Vanessa]

I take my hat off to you! On the rare occasions we ski in Europe I practically sh*t myself on those flights :laugh: My bf flies over them a lot more than me, he is from Turin...I usually excuse myself from those trips.

I might take the train next time! D:

[DemolitionRed]

OMG I fly over the alps all the time! :o

Me too. I love flying over the mountains and looking down at the glacial ice and its amazing when you fly just above the cloud and see the top of the Matterhorn.

My flights are nearly always London to Turin.

[waterhog]

I agree Niamh - It does seem to be anyway.


you may think it - but factually - airplanes are a very safe way of traveling. statistically proven.

[the truth]

the numbers of deaths and crashes has fallen consistently and considerably for years. the worst periods were the 1940s 70s 80s and a bad year around 2000 so overall youd have to say the planes are in fact safer than ever......this is no consolation to these victims and their families. heartbreaking tragedy

[Anaesthesia]

the numbers of deaths and crashes has fallen consistently and considerably for years. the worst periods were the 1940s 70s 80s and a bad year around 2000 so overall youd have to say the planes are in fact safer than ever......this is no consolation to these victims and their families. heartbreaking tragedy

Depends I think on how you view the stats. If you takr them 18-month period by 18-month period then recently they are shocking as a percentage of flights within the same period.

If you take them as a long average, things are definitely looking up.

And nothing could ever be a consolation to victims of families, numbers or no.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/24/379742/default/v2/daily-telegraph-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/24/379747/default/v1/mirror-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/24/379746/default/v1/guardian-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/24/379744/default/v2/daily-star-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/24/379745/default/v1/metro-1-720x960.jpg

[Gstar]

RIP :(

[Ammi]

..this is so, so sad, my heart breaks for their families...

[Nedusa]

Why was there no distress calls during the 8 mins that the plane dropped from 38,000 ft to 8,000 ft ?

Seems strange no communication from the plane, not even the automatic squawk button was pressed.

What type of emergency was this ?

[arista]

Why was there no distress calls during the 8 mins that the plane dropped from 38,000 ft to 8,000 ft ?

Seems strange no communication from the plane, not even the automatic squawk button was pressed.

What type of emergency was this ?


Must be lack of air
so they were knocked out etc.

[AnnieK]

It only takes something like 12 seconds for most people to lose consciousness on a plane if the cabin decompresses so it could be delayed reaction time from the pilot and then it was too late....

Terribly sad for all families and friends of those on board.

[Nedusa]

It only takes something like 12 seconds for most people to lose consciousness on a plane if the cabin decompresses so it could be delayed reaction time from the pilot and then it was too late....

Terribly sad for all families and friends of those on board.

Yes, Cabin depressurisation would seem to explain why the crew did not make any mayday calls. But what caused the depressurisation and if the plane was on auto pilot why did it then start a controlled descent ?

maybe the pilots took it off auto pilot but surely they would have put their own emergency air masks on.

engine failure might be a cause but again why no distress messages.

This is a bit of a mystery , devastating for the passengers and their families,and very worrying for the Air travel industry and Airbus.

[DemolitionRed]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/24/world/germanwings-french-alps-plane-crash-clues/

By the sound of it, something went wrong with the auto cockpit navigation computer and if that's the case, the pilots wouldn't be aware that anything was going wrong until it was too late.

[arista]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/24/world/germanwings-french-alps-plane-crash-clues/

By the sound of it, something went wrong with the auto cockpit navigation computer and if that's the case, the pilots wouldn't be aware that anything was going wrong until it was too late.

Auto Computer
would that have got confused
and sent it down?

[Nedusa]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/24/world/germanwings-french-alps-plane-crash-clues/

By the sound of it, something went wrong with the auto cockpit navigation computer and if that's the case, the pilots wouldn't be aware that anything was going wrong until it was too late.

but surely Auto cockpit computer or not, the pilots and crew and passengers would have felt the plane descending and wondered why ?

So the Pilots would have disengaged this computer and flown the plane manually and they would have reported the fault straight away.

[arista]

But if no air
they lose consciousness

[bots]

but surely Auto cockpit computer or not, the pilots and crew and passengers would have felt the plane descending and wondered why ?

So the Pilots would have disengaged this computer and flown the plane manually and they would have reported the fault straight away.

Well we don't know so its pure conjecture, but all it would need is for some catastrophic event in the cockpit that took out the 2 pilots, the time it took to decend is just in relation to the cockpit controls at the time of the event.

I'm actually hoping that the whole plane was knocked out and that the passengers knew nothing about it as an 8 minute decent with everyone aware is just terrible.

[arista]

3 British on that flight sadly

[DemolitionRed]

but surely Auto cockpit computer or not, the pilots and crew and passengers would have felt the plane descending and wondered why ?

So the Pilots would have disengaged this computer and flown the plane manually and they would have reported the fault straight away.

Apparently not according to experts. All this took around 8 minutes and it would only be the last few minutes when passengers noticed they were flying low. Because an air bus relies on a satellite navigation system, its doubtful they would of been looking out of the cockpit and may only of known about their decent when cabin crew came in to tell them; by then it may of been too late to take the plane back up manually.

This would also explain why there was no MD to ground control. MD only happens after everything has done to get a plane out of danger.

[arista]

8 or 18mins
they are guessing

[DemolitionRed]

Auto Computer
would that have got confused
and sent it down?

We have an auto computer system on our boat and these things are very reliable. We do know someone who crashed their yacht into a harbour wall at night because his computer system had been incorrectly set. The thing about these auto navigation systems is, they have to be set by humans and so open to human error.

[DemolitionRed]

8 or 18mins
they are guessing

If it was 18 minutes it was a much slower decent.

[Nedusa]

Well we don't know so its pure conjecture, but all it would need is for some catastrophic event in the cockpit that took out the 2 pilots, the time it took to decend is just in relation to the cockpit controls at the time of the event.

I'm actually hoping that the whole plane was knocked out and that the passengers knew nothing about it as an 8 minute decent with everyone aware is just terrible.

I heard a report yesterday from some hikers who were up in the Mountains near to where the plane came down. they reported hearing a strong rumbling sound a bit like thunder and then about 8-10 mins later another louder rumble which could have been the plane crashing.

so what was the first sound they heard ? could it be an explosion of some kind or catastrophic engine failure which would explain why the plane descended.

I hope they can accurately piece together these events and understand what actually happened to cause this tragedy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why was there no distress calls during the 8 mins that the plane dropped from 38,000 ft to 8,000 ft ?

Seems strange no communication from the plane, not even the automatic squawk button was pressed.

What type of emergency was this ?

This is normal. Pilots are trained to, in emergencies, to first stablise the plane and gain control, second to regain control of direction and then to mayday. It would seem they did not get beyond 1

[billy123]

Why was there no distress calls during the 8 mins that the plane dropped from 38,000 ft to 8,000 ft ?

Seems strange no communication from the plane, not even the automatic squawk button was pressed.

What type of emergency was this ?
Im pretty sure they are looking into it.

[Z]

This has really unnerved me, probably because I flew Germanwings constantly when I lived in Germany (Edinburgh-Cologne route) and I'm flying next Friday... eurgh. Horrible tragedy!

[arista]

This has really unnerved me, probably because I flew Germanwings constantly when I lived in Germany (Edinburgh-Cologne route) and I'm flying next Friday... eurgh. Horrible tragedy!



But this So Rare.
You will be fine

It may take longer to find out
as the boxes are damaged

[arista]

The latest
is one Pilot was outside
the door after going to the toilet
he was banging hard on the door
trying to be let in by the other pilot?

So passengers near the Front would have heard the panic

[Crimson Dynamo]

The latest
is one Pilot was outside
the door after going to the toilet
he was banging hard on the door
trying to be let in by the other pilot?

So passengers near the Front would have heard the panic

yes on the BB you can hear him lightly tapping and speaking and then loud thudding as he panics and tries to get in but cannot....

The door has a code but the pilots can lock and override

[Crimson Dynamo]

of the 10 crashes from this type of airplane:

8 have been pilot error
1 was hit by geese
1 had a landing gear issue caused by a mechanics error


so it looks likely its pilot error?

[arista]

yes on the BB you can hear him lightly tapping and speaking and then loud thudding as he panics and tries to get in but cannot....

The door has a code but the pilots can lock and override



Yes so the Other Pilot
locked him out
while they started to go down.


They must find out what the pilots
background is.

[Vanessa]

Yes so the Other Pilot
locked him out
while they started to go down.


They must find out what the pilots
background is.

D:

[Nedusa]

There's more they're not telling us. If there wasn't more, they would want to nip any talk of terrorism in the bud especially for the family members.

It sounds like the one Pilot went to the bathroom. First question,

Did he go to the bathroom and was there any discussion about grabbing a flight attendant? Did the Pilot that was left in the cockpit encourage the other Pilot to go to the bathroom and he will just lock the door?

Did the other Pilot say anything or indicate any distress?

Like I said, I think there's more to it because why not just kill the story in order to protect the family?

At the end of the day, it could be a freak accident. The Pilot goes to the bathroom, the other Pilot says I will just lock the door, the Pilot leaves and after he locks the door he has a stroke or heart attack.

[DemolitionRed]

At the end of the day, it could be a freak accident. The Pilot goes to the bathroom, the other Pilot says I will just lock the door, the Pilot leaves and after he locks the door he has a stroke or heart attack.

Is it procedure to lock the door of the cockpit at all times? and if so, did the pilot in the cockpit realize the plane was in difficulty and panicking to right the plane rather than go and manually open the door?
Did all systems including the door lock go into sudden failure?
Had someone else got into the cockpit and killed the pilot?
or was this single pilot committing suicide?
I believe that if this was a terrorist act, the plane would of been dive bombed onto a city or important installation.

[MTVN]

I'd think that the door would automatically lock when someone goes out

[Nedusa]

Is it procedure to lock the door of the cockpit at all times? and if so, did the pilot in the cockpit realize the plane was in difficulty and panicking to right the plane rather than go and manually open the door?
Did all systems including the door lock go into sudden failure?
Had someone else got into the cockpit and killed the pilot?
or was this single pilot committing suicide?
I believe that if this was a terrorist act, the plane would of been dive bombed onto a city or important installation.

The point is these cockpit doors have three main settings

Open
Closed or auto locked - But green light so Pilot can put in a code and gain entry from outside
Closed - Manual override lock - Red light

This third option is when the pilot in the cockpit deliberately locks the door so no one from the outside can gain entry. If this is the option employed the Pilot coming back from his bathroom break would have tried to get in with his code and then realised red light was on and then he would have panicked and started banging on the door.

Is this not what the CVR picked up ??

It does look suspicious and the Pilots names have not been released yet...what does this tell us ?

Perhaps terrorism has not been ruled out yet.

[DemolitionRed]

They can't rule out anything yet. The trouble is, if one of the pilots has a middle eastern background then everyone will assume it was a terrorist attack. Like you say though Nedusa, its strange the pilots names haven't been given out yet.

[MTVN]

Now being reported that the co-pilot took sole control and intentionally started the descent.. looking like suicide or terrorism :/

[Vanessa]

Now being reported that the co-pilot took sole control and intentionally started the descent.. looking like suicide or terrorism :/

D:

[MTVN]

The DM though are saying that "the co-pilot has been named in reports as Andreas Günter Lubitz, a 28-year-old with 600 hours of flying experience who joined Germanwings in 2013 straight from training". Not a middle eastern name then

[bots]

Now being reported that the co-pilot took sole control and intentionally started the descent.. looking like suicide or terrorism :/

It's not really suicide when he decides to take out an entire plane full of passengers. Truly dreadful, and it seems all would have been aware of what was happening. Terrible way to go

[Marc]

I really hope that isn't true :(

[Marc]

This whole story makes me so sad. I heard about it hours before flying back to England myself and I hate flying. Those poor people :sad:

[arista]

Now being reported that the co-pilot took sole control and intentionally started the descent.. looking like suicide or terrorism :/


Yes Shocking

[arista]

There's more they're not telling us. If there wasn't more, they would want to nip any talk of terrorism in the bud especially for the family members.

It sounds like the one Pilot went to the bathroom. First question,

Did he go to the bathroom and was there any discussion about grabbing a flight attendant? Did the Pilot that was left in the cockpit encourage the other Pilot to go to the bathroom and he will just lock the door?

Did the other Pilot say anything or indicate any distress?

Like I said, I think there's more to it because why not just kill the story in order to protect the family?

At the end of the day, it could be a freak accident. The Pilot goes to the bathroom, the other Pilot says I will just lock the door, the Pilot leaves and after he locks the door he has a stroke or heart attack.


No as they heard him breathing OK

[Crimson Dynamo]

largest LT girl was flying today and she was nervous

[Crimson Dynamo]

BREAKING NEWS: Germanwings co-pilot DELIBERATELY crashed Flight 4U9525 into mountain to 'destroy the plane' after locking his captain out of cockpit , reveals French prosecutor

DM

[Niamh.]

It's not really suicide when he decides to take out an entire plane full of passengers. Truly dreadful, and it seems all would have been aware of what was happening. Terrible way to go

Yeah exactly

[Kazanne]

So it's mass murder if the latest story is true,what a cowardly bastard who chose to kill all those people who were nothing to do with his problems,I hope he rots in hell.

[Cherie]

The story just gets worse, the German kids who were on exchange trip had taken part in a lottery as so many students wanted to go, so sad.

[Vanessa]

:sad: All the children and babies on board. :bawling:

[arista]

Murder
Evil

[arista]

:sad: All the children and babies on board. :bawling:


Yes he did not care
Murder them all as he takes the plane to death

[Vanessa]

The details are truly shocking. Those poor people. :(

[letmein]

It's not really suicide when he decides to take out an entire plane full of passengers. Truly dreadful, and it seems all would have been aware of what was happening. Terrible way to go

It's called collateral damage.

[Niamh.]

It's called collateral damage.

It's mass murder

[Crimson Dynamo]

this happened in 2013 on a Mozambique plane also

[arista]

this happened in 2013 on a Mozambique plane also


Yes but Rare
in our side of the World

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/article-3012053-27038F1000000578-534_964x429.jpg
[First picture: Germanwings co-pilot - 28-year-old
German Andreas Günter Lubitz (above) - locked his captain out of the cockpit before
deliberately crashing into a mountain to 'destroy the plane', it has been revealed]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html#ixzz3VUrhFNz3


How would anyone know this new pilot
had gone Evil?

[Crimson Dynamo]

so now we have to worry about engine failure, islamic terrorists and now fecking cabin crew?

Oh i love flying, me

[arista]

so now we have to worry about engine failure, islamic terrorists and now fecking cabin crew?

Oh i love flying, me


I would break into to his home
and find everything on his Computer

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would break into to his home
and find everything on his Computer

that will be happening right now

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/10/2701096400000578-3012053-The_Cockpit_Door_Locking_System_pictured_has_sever al_safety_feat-a-5_1427365382052.jpg

[arista]

that will be happening right now


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/12/27037B1300000578-3012053-image-a-41_1427374751630.jpg
The Evil pilots home in Germany

[Livia]

Hard to believe...

[arista]

Hard to believe...

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/26/380054/default/v3/onpaste.20150326-082842-1-762x428.png


the magic Lock
put in all planes after 9/11

[arista]

They are now saying in future when a Pilot
goes to the toilet
another member of staff must enter the cockpit

[Vanessa]

They are now saying in future when a Pilot
goes to the toilet
another member of staff must enter the cockpit

This would be better.

[Livia]

Off topic in such a tragic thread... but I love your sig Vanessa.

[Nedusa]

They are now saying in future when a Pilot
goes to the toilet
another member of staff must enter the cockpit

Yes........but would that stop a determined suicide pilot, I mean if it was the lead Cabin attendant that had to go into the Cockpit, whose to say the pilot wouldn't just smash her over the head with something heavy and then continue to carry out his evil plan.

[Cherie]

Yes........but would that stop a determined suicide pilot, I mean if it was the lead Cabin attendant that had to go into the Cockpit, whose to say the pilot wouldn't just smash her over the head with something heavy and then continue to carry out his evil plan.

In fairness I don't think you can legislate for every eventuality, what if pilot and co pilot agreed to bring down a plane, or the pilot coshed the co pilot, this third person entering the cockpit happens during some long haul flights at any rate, nothing that is put in place will be fool proof, but events like this are thankfully rare!

On a separate issue I think it is probably incorrect to say the passengers wouldn't have been aware until impact those in the front of the plane would be aware of the pilot trying to get back into the cockpit

[Kizzy]

I'm guessing far right...

[Vanessa]

Off topic in such a tragic thread... but I love your sig Vanessa.

Thank you. :)

[Livia]

Fly El Al... there are always at least two armed Sky Marshals aboard.

[Vanessa]

i feel nervous about my upcoming flight now. D:

[Crimson Dynamo]

In fairness I don't think you can legislate for every eventuality, what if pilot and co pilot agreed to bring down a plane, or the pilot coshed the co pilot, this third person entering the cockpit happens during some long haul flights at any rate, nothing that is put in place will be fool proof, but events like this are thankfully rare!

On a separate issue I think it is probably incorrect to say the passengers wouldn't have been aware until impact those in the front of the plane would be aware of the pilot trying to get back into the cockpit

they were aware as screaming could be heard at the end of the recording

one glance to the cabin crew's faces would have told you everything..

[Niamh.]

they were aware as screaming could be heard at the end of the recording

one glance to the cabin crew's faces would have told you everything..

Oh God, I hate even thinking about it, those poor people and kids, they must have been so scared. That guy wasn't just suicidal to want to inflict that much pain and terror on those passengers and their families, there has to be more to this story

[DemolitionRed]

Some reports say they don't know if it was the pilot or co-pilot who crashed the plane. The voices on the voice recorder are presently indistinguishable.

[Cherie]

they were aware as screaming could be heard at the end of the recording

one glance to the cabin crew's faces would have told you everything..

The Marseille prosecutor said in the press conference they wouldn't have been aware until the last minute when the cries started, which is total fallacy, I guess he was trying to spare the relatives.

[Niamh.]

Some reports say they don't know if it was the pilot or co-pilot who crashed the plane. The voices on the voice recorder are presently indistinguishable.

Oh, how come they automatically blamed the co pilot then I wonder?

[Cherie]

Some reports say they don't know if it was the pilot or co-pilot who crashed the plane. The voices on the voice recorder are presently indistinguishable.

Not sure I believe that, they wouldn't have named the co pilot in the press conference unless they were absolutely certain. Pretty sure they said the captain identified himself when he was trying to get back in

[Vanessa]

In the press conference the prosecutor blamed the co pilot. :suspect:

[Cherie]

In the press conference the prosecutor blamed the co pilot. :suspect:

Pretty sure the captain identified himself while trying to gain access.

[Kizzy]

Lufthansa press conference summary

Heres a summary of the Lufthansa press conference, largely given by the company chief executive, Carsten Spohr.

Lufthansa confirmed that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appeared to have prevented the captain from re-entering the cabin after a toilet break, and placed the Airbus A320 into the dive that resulted in the crash that killed all 150 on board.
Spohr said the company was in complete shock. It was “beyond our worst nightmare”, he told reporters in Cologne. “It leaves us absolutely speechless,” he said. “I wouldn’t not have been able to imagine that the situation would have got even worse.”
Spohr said that despite the disaster, Lufthansa had full confidence in its training and pilot screening procedures. These would nevertheless be reviewed, he said.
Unlike in the US, European regulations do not provide for two people to be in the cockpit at all times, Spohr said. Lufthansa does not voluntarily implement such a protocol, and Spohr said that he is not aware of any of the company’s competitors that have such a procedure.
Spohr said that it appears the captain punched in the emergency number into the cockpit door to gain entry, but the co-pilot deployed the five-minute over-ride. He said that, irrespective of all the sophisticated safety devices, “you can never exclude such an individual event”, adding “no system in the world could manage to do that”.
Asked about the theory that the co-pilot killed himself, he demurred. “We can only speculate what might have been the motivation of the co-pilot. In a company that prides itself on its safety record, this is a shock. We select cockpit personnel carefully.”


http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525

[arista]

The One Special Switch
that Evil Pilot had was "Lock" the 3rd position
that blocks all coded entrance
to prevent a 9/11 type take over.


This pilot
had a change in his Life
no way could they have known
it would become this mass murder and death

[Ninastar]

so it was done on purpose??? jesus christ

[bots]

The rather sad irony in all this is that it was changes with respect to terrorism that allowed this to happen. Before 9/11 they would simply have opened the door

[Vanessa]

The rather sad irony in all this is that it was changes with respect to terrorism that allowed this to happen. Before 9/11 they would simply have opened the door

:sad:

[Niamh.]

The rather sad irony in all this is that it was changes with respect to terrorism that allowed this to happen. Before 9/11 they would simply have opened the door

I think generally speaking its probably safer to have a door that locks though

[arista]

The rather sad irony in all this is that it was changes with respect to terrorism that allowed this to happen. Before 9/11 they would simply have opened the door


No they had a lever hidden
so not simple

before 9/11

But the 9/11 crew had been testing planes
in Florida
before the event

[arista]

I think generally speaking its probably safer to have a door that locks though


the best way forward
is every time a Pilot comes out
another staff member goes in
to stay with the pilot
until the other pilot returns

[Vanessa]

the best way forward
is every time a Pilot comes out
another staff member goes in
to stay with the pilot
until the other pilot returns

Yes, i think this is better.

[Nedusa]

No matter what safeguards are introduced no matter what safety systems or safety procedures are introduced there will always be a situation that can arise that you cannot plan for.

This particular sad scenario has happened a couple of times in the past and it is extremely difficult to forsee, i guess always having two pilots in the cockpit at all times would help but in the similar case on an Egyptian flight the pilot actually incapacitated the co-pilot before putting the plane into a nosedive.

I guess as technology improves the abilty of the pilot to put the plane into an unsafe position ie descending into a mountain range may not be accepted by the planes computer and the move flagged up at ground control. but even this would not stop a determined pilot from finding a way to disable the aircraft.

So perhaps more screening and more frequent mental health testing would help stop tragedies like this.

[Livia]

Again, Air Marshals.

I would happily pay extra to have them on a flight to know I was safe.

[Jamesy]

I thought a more efficient way would be to have a hidden keypad near the door that allows air cabin crew to unlock the door electronically.

Although whatever fail safe is created, it will be broken one way or another eventually. The whole three people in the cabin thing isn't guaranteed to work either, or having one staff go in if a pilot leaves. The other staff can easily be knocked out or killed by the pilot aiming to kill.

The main thing to ponder over now is why did the co-pilot crash the plane? That will be the interesting thing. It might not be terrorist related. He might have been going through something personal at home, or have some physiological issues that people didn't know of. I assume that's where the investigation team are going to look at next.

At least in a way those families who have lost ones can know for a fact what happened. This has all been announced quite quickly which is rare when it comes to plane crashes.

[Kazanne]

In fairness I don't think you can legislate for every eventuality, what if pilot and co pilot agreed to bring down a plane, or the pilot coshed the co pilot, this third person entering the cockpit happens during some long haul flights at any rate, nothing that is put in place will be fool proof, but events like this are thankfully rare!

On a separate issue I think it is probably incorrect to say the passengers wouldn't have been aware until impact those in the front of the plane would be aware of the pilot trying to get back into the cockpit

Some were aware Cherie,they have heard screaming from the black box info.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Some were aware Cherie,they have heard screaming from the black box info.

i think when you start to make a rapid descent midway in your journey and the Swiss Alps are looming below you are going to start to worry

[bots]

Some were aware Cherie,they have heard screaming from the black box info.

If someone is screaming on a plane, the rest of the passengers know about it within seconds. I was on a plane once when a passenger started screaming, and all hell broke loose - everyone wanted to know what was going on. On that occasion it was just a bad bit of turbulence

[Nedusa]

If someone is screaming on a plane, the rest of the passengers know about it within seconds. I was on a plane once when a passenger started screaming, and all hell broke loose - everyone wanted to know what was going on. On that occasion it was just a bad bit of turbulence

I've been on a flight like that crossing the Equator from Brazil back to UK, you always hit turbulence and this chap was asleep and woke up screaming , lots of people immediately wanted to know what was going on.. very nervy I'll say

[Cherie]

If someone is screaming on a plane, the rest of the passengers know about it within seconds. I was on a plane once when a passenger started screaming, and all hell broke loose - everyone wanted to know what was going on. On that occasion it was just a bad bit of turbulence

Exactly, I can't imagine they were unaware up to the last minute as the prosecuter alleged, the pilot knocking on the door would have alerted people to something being amiss..just awful.

[Kizzy]

I was in Alicante airport and there was a lot of screaming ... turns out the staff were watching real madrid play!! I have never been more terrified and more relieved.

[DemolitionRed]

My dad was in a near miss airline crash when the under-carage failed. When the pilot warned them that they were going to have to make an emergency landing and he would signal when to get into the brace position, he said it was suddenly absolute silence. Everyone was paralysed with fear. He said he felt like his body had been frozen to his chair and for the first time in years he just closed his eyes and prayed.

He refused to go into the brace position when told because a friend of his who was a pilot told him that its nothing to do with saving your life but all to do with saving your teeth for dental record indentification.

[Crimson Dynamo]

My dad was in a near miss airline crash when the under-carage failed. When the pilot warned them that they were going to have to make an emergency landing and he would signal when to get into the brace position, he said it was suddenly absolute silence. Everyone was paralysed with fear. He said he felt like his body had been frozen to his chair and for the first time in years he just closed his eyes and prayed.

He refused to go into the brace position when told because a friend of his who was a pilot told him that its nothing to do with saving your life but all to do with saving your teeth for dental record indentification.

:joker:

that cant be true

:suspect:

[DemolitionRed]

:joker:

that cant be true

:suspect:

Why not? Most plane crashes end in disaster. Why would a rock hard seat in front of you save your life?

[arista]

As locals near the home of this Deadly Pilot
have said he did have depression.

[arista]

Some were aware Cherie,they have heard screaming from the black box info.

Yes those near the Front
seconds before they were dead


All down to One German Pilot

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why not? Most plane crashes end in disaster. Why would a rock hard seat in front of you save your life?

Myths

There have been myths surrounding the use of the brace procedure. One is that adopting the brace procedure is only useful for preserving dental integrity for identification after a crash; another myth is that the position is designed to increase the chance of death to reduce insurance-paid medical cost. These myths have been debunked with evidence that the brace position "does indeed work to preserve lives in an air disaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brace_position

[Kizzy]

Which one? The rules on the brace position change, and the advice differs depending on where in the aircraft you are seated.

http://www.casa.gov.au/WCMSWR/_assets/main/airsafe/trip/images/brace_b2.gif

http://www.casa.gov.au/WCMSWR/_assets/main/airsafe/trip/images//brace_w2.gif

http://www.warman.demon.co.uk/anna/brace.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

Which one? The rules on the brace position change, and the advice differs depending on where in the aircraft you are seated.

http://www.casa.gov.au/WCMSWR/_assets/main/airsafe/trip/images/brace_b2.gif

http://www.casa.gov.au/WCMSWR/_assets/main/airsafe/trip/images//brace_w2.gif

http://www.warman.demon.co.uk/anna/brace.gif

This is why you should read the safety card and watch the demo each trip

[DemolitionRed]

Why is it that most business class have airbags?

[Kizzy]

Because they shouldn't be expected to bend over and kiss their ar*e goodbye? :laugh:

[arista]

They have found a a Doctors Note saying he should not fly.
it was ripped up.


This German budget airline
has let this Evil man
get through their testing

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/23/27075E2000000578-3013743-image-a-30_1427413009024.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/23/270596F000000578-3013743-German_detectives_were_also_pictured_carrying_what _appeared_to_b-a-27_1427413008544.jpg
Good Luck with that Fella
he was a Crazy and Evil.

[kirklancaster]

'Bullet proof reinforced door'?

'Door lock keypad over-ride'?

So terrorism IS responsible for this tragedy then - even if it was indirectly.

[arista]

'Bullet proof reinforced door'?

'Door lock keypad over-ride'?

So terrorism IS responsible for this tragedy then - even if it was indirectly.


Yes

[Livia]

I suppose, indirectly, that's right Kirk.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/27/380337/default/v2/star-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/3/27/380334/default/v2/mail-1-720x960.jpg

[Kizzy]

Indirectly.. so you are citing terrorism as the cause of this?

That is ridiculous, let's see if it's brought up in court.

[arista]

Indirectly.. so you are citing terrorism as the cause of this?

That is ridiculous, let's see if it's brought up in court.


No its not the cause
the Crazy/Evil Pilot had sick notes saying no flying
but ripped them up

In future all doctors sick notes
should go to the Airline as well


bloody stupid Germany

[kirklancaster]

Indirectly.. so you are citing terrorism as the cause of this?

That is ridiculous, let's see if it's brought up in court.

Ridiculous? How is it ridiculous?

If terrorism did not exist then the door would not have been reinforced and bullet proof, and there would have been no internal override of the external keypad access facility.

So INDIRECTLY terrorism IS to blame for this tragedy.

Arista and Livia had no difficulty understanding the point I made and agreeing with it. Why are you always so different?

[kirklancaster]

No its not the cause
the Crazy/Evil Pilot had sick notes saying no flying
but ripped them up

In future all doctors sick notes
should go to the Airline as well


bloody stupid Germany

Don't worry Arista, Kizzy knows full well that I never said terrorism was THE cause, but only that INDIRECTLY it was the cause, because she even starts her response with the word; "INDIRECTLY". :shrug:

I'm used to misrepresentation by now. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Indirectly.. so you are citing terrorism as the cause of this?

That is ridiculous, let's see if it's brought up in court.

it is the root cause as kirk has told you

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/23/2704FEFF00000578-3013743-Recovery_A_rescue_worker_is_lifted_to_a_helicopter _with_what_app-a-32_1427413009226.jpg
Meanwhile another body is lifted out

[arista]

Don't worry Arista, Kizzy knows full well that I never said terrorism was THE cause, but only that INDIRECTLY it was the cause, because she even starts her response with the word; "INDIRECTLY". :shrug:

I'm used to misrepresentation by now. :laugh:



Yes once you used that
you are Correct
Maybe Kizzy missed it?

[DemolitionRed]

Whilst our hearts go out to the victims of this...those killed and family and friends left to grieve; imagine how awful this must be for the co-pilots family.

It makes you wonder if the guy was having schizophrenic thoughts to do what he did.

[Kizzy]

Ridiculous? How is it ridiculous?

If terrorism did not exist then the door would not have been reinforced and bullet proof, and there would have been no internal override of the external keypad access facility.

So INDIRECTLY terrorism IS to blame for this tragedy.

Arista and Livia had no difficulty understanding the point I made and agreeing with it. Why are you always so different?

Because I have a mind of my own, and I don't feel you can apply that logic otherwise you could suggest that many events of the past have a knock on effect on what happens in the future.
Nothing else directly or indirectly can be applied for me.
This horrible event due to the actions of a mentally unstable young man, he is directly responsible and that is the bottom line.

[bots]

Because I have a mind of my own, and I don't feel you can apply that logic otherwise you could suggest that many events of the past have a knock on effect on what happens in the future.
Nothing else directly or indirectly can be applied for me.
This horrible event due to the actions of a mentally unstable young man, he is directly responsible and that is the bottom line.

Yes, you are right he was wholly responsible, however, I made the same point as Kirk is now earlier in this thread. If we hadn't had the 9/11 event, the captain would have been able to open the door. We don't live in a perfect world, and the minimum of 2 in the cockpit will be another step forward until some future event occurs that changes things again. We can approximate to a perfect world, we can never achieve it. Everything has knock on effects and consequences. As Niamh said earlier, its still better to have a locking cockpit than not.

[Toy Soldier]

'Bullet proof reinforced door'?

'Door lock keypad over-ride'?

So terrorism IS responsible for this tragedy then - even if it was indirectly.

LOL! Oh Kirk, I was really depressed reading this thread until your post, I properly guffawed. Only you could manage to make the actions of a deranged German man the fault of EvilMooslims. I mean, yes, OK, these safety measures are in place because of the events of 9/11 but "blaming" the entire incident on those safety measures is... a stretch, at best. If anything the safety measures are simply sensible, and should have been in place long BEFORE 9/11. Nothing to do with terrorism really. They should have been in place because ... well ... because giant chunks of metal full of people, hurtling through the air, should have limited access to the controls.

[Cherie]

Yes, you are right he was wholly responsible, however, I made the same point as Kirk is now earlier in this thread. If we hadn't had the 9/11 event, the captain would have been able to open the door. We don't live in a perfect world, and the minimum of 2 in the cockpit will be another step forward until some future event occurs that changes things again. We can approximate to a perfect world, we can never achieve it. Everything has knock on effects and consequences. As Niamh said earlier, its still better to have a locking cockpit than not.

Agree, however as I understand it the door to the cockpit could always be locked from the inside it just never was pre 911, so taking 911 out of the equation, this guy could still have locked the door, unless they managed to get through the door and rectifiy the descent in 8 minutes they were still doomed.

[Ammi]

Whilst our hearts go out to the victims of this...those killed and family and friends left to grieve; imagine how awful this must be for the co-pilots family.

It makes you wonder if the guy was having schizophrenic thoughts to do what he did.

..yeah this is what I was thinking as well, his parents are having to struggle with the death of their son plus the thought that he took all of those lives from their families..this is horrendous for them...

[jennyjuniper]

My husband said that the authorities (in Germany??) heard what happened. Apparently the pilot left the co-pilot in charge while he went to the loo. When he came back the door lock had been disabled and he couldn't get back into the cockpit. They could hear the pilot and others trying to break down the door and that was when the plane started to go down and into the mountain.
No-one seems to know whether the co pilot wanted to commit suicide and take the whole lot with him or whether he had a heart attack and couldn't do anything. All that was heard before the pounding on the door, was the co pilot breathing.

[Cherie]

My husband said that the authorities (in Germany??) heard what happened. Apparently the pilot left the co-pilot in charge while he went to the loo. When he came back the door lock had been disabled and he couldn't get back into the cockpit. They could hear the pilot and others trying to break down the door and that was when the plane started to go down and into the mountain.
No-one seems to know whether the co pilot wanted to commit suicide and take the whole lot with him or whether he had a heart attack and couldn't do anything. All that was heard before the pounding on the door, was the co pilot breathing.

Jenny it was not a heart attack, the co pilot was suffering from depression and had a sick note not to fly on that day, if you read back the thread the account is all there

[arista]

And worse the German Newspapers (Ref : SkyNewsHD Live)
has words from the Evil Pilots girlfriend
on how he was going to Crash a Plane
so everyone would know his name?

[Cherie]

And worse the German Newspapers (Ref : SkyNewsHD Live)
has words from the Evil Pilots girlfriend
on how he was going to Crash a Plane
so everyone would know his name?

Did she report it ?

[arista]

Did she report it ?


It appears not
maybe she thought
he was joking

[Crimson Dynamo]

It appears not
maybe she thought
he was joking

Mind you she says she left him because he was scary so perhaps as he was a pilot she should have reported it:shrug:

[Kazanne]

Jenny it was not a heart attack, the co pilot was suffering from depression and had a sick note not to fly on that day, if you read back the thread the account is all there

They also heard him breathing until the moment of impact.

[kirklancaster]

Mind you she says she left him because he was scary so perhaps as he was a pilot she should have reported it:shrug:

Absolutely correct LT.

Coming back to something which I said in an earlier thread on terrorism about Sonia Sutcliffe; partners of these psychos KNOW they are both dangerous and demented, so knowing as much, and - as you quote - saying she left him because he was 'scary', and knowing his boast to 'crash a plane' - if she did not report him to the authorities she is as culpable as him -- in my opinion.

[MTVN]

Hindsight sure is wonderful. She is not at fault in any way.

[Will.]

This is very sad, ironically my mum starting catering for Malaysian Airlines with fish on the day of this crash :/

[Cherie]

Hindsight sure is wonderful. She is not at fault in any way.

That is true, The context of how he said it is important we all make jokes about killing our bosses etc or at least I do

[Ammi]

..I agree with Matt, she couldn't possibly have understood the significance/importance of what he said..(if he did indeed say it as it's just hearsay..)...and doesn't bear any responsibility at all, hindsight etc...I do hope that she doesn't get internet/Twitter hate etc because of his actions and that his family don't either...

[arista]

Mind you she says she left him because he was scary so perhaps as he was a pilot she should have reported it:shrug:


Yes she could have warned the Airline

[bots]

My husband said that the authorities (in Germany??) heard what happened. Apparently the pilot left the co-pilot in charge while he went to the loo. When he came back the door lock had been disabled and he couldn't get back into the cockpit. They could hear the pilot and others trying to break down the door and that was when the plane started to go down and into the mountain.
No-one seems to know whether the co pilot wanted to commit suicide and take the whole lot with him or whether he had a heart attack and couldn't do anything. All that was heard before the pounding on the door, was the co pilot breathing.

He made the active choice to deadlock the door and stop the pilot coming back in (not normal action) and he also actively set the plane into a decent. Two actions that reinforced what his intentions were

[arista]

..I agree with Matt, she couldn't possibly have understood the significance/importance of what he said..(if he did indeed say it as it's just hearsay..)...and doesn't bear any responsibility at all, hindsight etc...I do hope that she doesn't get internet/Twitter hate etc because of his actions and that his family don't either...



If she goes online
she will get Attacked
thats going to be normal

[Crimson Dynamo]

'I'm planning a heinous act that will be remembered forever':

He was a master of hiding his darkest thoughts and frightened his former lover so much she decided to leave him

would wake up from nightmares screaming ‘we’re going down’, the former partner said.

'We spoke a lot about work and then he became another person. He became agitated about the circumstances in which he had to work, too little money, anxiety about his contract and too much pressure.'

'During conversations he'd suddenly throw a tantrum and scream at me,' she said. 'I was afraid. He even once locked me in the bathroom for a long time.'

She said: ‘When I heard about the crash, there was just a tape playing in my head of what he said, “One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me”.

‘I did not know what he meant by that at the time, but now it’s clear.’

She said he had 'never really' spoken to her about any illness but had told her he was getting psychiatric treatment.


It comes amid claims that their relationship broke down because he was secretly gay and was suffering torment over hiding his homosexuality. One report claimed he was taunted by fellow pilots for previously being a 'trolley dolly' airline steward and dubbed 'Tomato Andy' - a derogatory gay slur - by colleagues.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3015504/I-m-planning-heinous-act-remembered-forever-Killer-pilot-s-ex-girlfriend-says-shared-chilling-prophecy-Alps-crash-woke-nightmares-shouting-going-down.html#ixzz3Vg0DfC6s

[Cherie]

If she goes online
she will get Attacked
thats going to be normal

True, you can be Snow White and get attacked online so there is no hope that his family won't get abused unfortunately

[MTVN]

Not really sure why the Mail has changed "One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me" to "I'm planning a heinous act that will be remembered forever" which obviously makes it sound a lot more sinister. I don't see anything in that which means that she should be expected to know he was going to deliberately crash a plane into a mountain. Especially if that man is your boyfriend you can never think he would be capable of doing something like that. Not if he had a couple of nightmares, not if he made a vague statement which could allude to anything, not even if he made you occasionally afraid or you knew that he struggled with illness. And she knew he was seeing a psychiatrist, presumably you trust those who are trained to deal with his illness as they see fit, it's not up to her to control his treatment or cast aspersions on what it might lead to. If two doctors thought he was not fit to work then maybe they should be the ones who warn his employers.

[Cherie]

Not really sure why the Mail has changed "One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me" to "I'm planning a heinous act that will be remembered forever" which obviously makes it sound a lot more sinister. I don't see anything in that which means that she should be expected to know he was going to deliberately crash a plane into a mountain. Especially if that man is your boyfriend you can never think he would be capable of doing something like that. Not if he had a couple of nightmares, not if he made a vague statement which could allude to anything, not even if he made you occasionally afraid or you knew that he struggled with illness. And she knew he was seeing a psychiatrist, presumably you trust those who are trained to deal with his illness as they see fit, it's not up to her to control his treatment or cast aspersions on what it might lead to. If two doctors thought he was not fit to work then maybe they should be the ones who warn his employers.


That would be a breach of patient confidentiality so not allowed I guess

[Livia]

I agree with MTVN, unsurprisingly. This man had apparently passed the airline's own psychometric and other tests and he'd lied about his mental illness and the fact he'd been signed off. Like MTVN says, maybe it was the responsibility of the people treating him to report to his employers knowing he was a pilot and responsible for the lives of others. His girlfriend is not responsible.

[Crimson Dynamo]

why were the sick notes not copied to his superiors at the airline?

[bots]

Not sure of the specifics in Germany, but a sick note in the UK can be used or ignored by someone depending on how they feel about it at the time. Generally, most people that get a sick note do so to provide an official reason to be excused from work, there is no requirement that a doctor contact an employer.

If the employer has referred someone to a doctor, then its a completely different thing of course, then you would expect the employer to be notified of any issues.

Not sure if any of that information has been published yet

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Instead of giving him the luxury of trying to understand his brain amidst depression, can't we just call him a terrorist like everyone else that commits a terror act and call it a day? Nah?

Lots of people are depressed but they don't nose dive a plane into the Alps and selfishly bring innocent strangers with them.

[arista]

A Road is now being built
up to the crash site.

The was One Evil German Pilot
that had no care for any in that plane

[arista]

[Evil Killer pilot Andreas Lubitz had been treated for suicidal tendencies for Years before Alps crash, prosecutors reveal]



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017961/Investigators-believe-killer-Germanwings-pilot-crashed-jet-fears-going-blind.html#ixzz3Vsc4GQSH



Germany
what a Crap nation
they must have known he was flying planes

[Nedusa]

Hindsight sure is wonderful. She is not at fault in any way.

Agree........but she will still have to live with that nagging voice in her head that says to her over and over again

.......why didn't you say something, anything you knew he was unbalanced that's why you left him....should have mentioned he was saying some really strange things.....

[Z]

[Evil Killer pilot Andreas Lubitz had been treated for suicidal tendencies for Years before Alps crash, prosecutors reveal]



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017961/Investigators-believe-killer-Germanwings-pilot-crashed-jet-fears-going-blind.html#ixzz3Vsc4GQSH



Germany
what a Crap nation
they must have known he was flying planes

As expressed multiple times; it's not up to his employer to know about his mental health - many people suffer from depression and manage to hold down a job; this man just seems twisted and destined to commit a spectacularly tragic crime one day.

[arista]

The Poxy boss of the Airline
says this was a Accident?


It was Murder you Fecking German Swine

[Livia]

As expressed multiple times; it's not up to his employer to know about his mental health - many people suffer from depression and manage to hold down a job; this man just seems twisted and destined to commit a spectacularly tragic crime one day.

I was under the impression that airline pilots had to be open about mental health issues and that suicidal tendencies could preclude them from the job, and quite rightly in my opinion. There's no shame in having mental health issues, but if someone's suffered from suicidal thoughts in the past I hope they fund a fulfilling, rewarding career. But I don't want them flying me anywhere.

[Z]

I was under the impression that airline pilots had to be open about mental health issues and that suicidal tendencies could preclude them from the job, and quite rightly in my opinion. There's no shame in having mental health issues, but if someone's suffered from suicidal thoughts in the past I hope they fund a fulfilling, rewarding career. But I don't want them flying me anywhere.

Absolutely, but that responsibility is on the pilot, not the employer. Perhaps that should change. I think that should only be for jobs where you're in charge of other peoples' safety - there's no sense in denying someone a job in an office because they've a history of suicidal thoughts; but absolutely if they're a pilot as an example.

All of this is really unsettling me, I'm flying to Belgium on Friday :worry:

[Cherie]

Absolutely, but that responsibility is on the pilot, not the employer. Perhaps that should change. I think that should only be for jobs where you're in charge of other peoples' safety - there's no sense in denying someone a job in an office because they've a history of suicidal thoughts; but absolutely if they're a pilot as an example.

All of this is really unsettling me, I'm flying to Belgium on Friday :worry:

Don't worry you are more likely to be killed on the way to the airport x

[Z]

Don't worry you are more likely to be killed on the way to the airport x

This is very true, I'm getting a Megabus to Edinburgh :umm2: #prayforZ

[arista]

Ch4HD has a special Docu
at 8PM
"How Safe Are Our Planes"

[Livia]

Absolutely, but that responsibility is on the pilot, not the employer. Perhaps that should change. I think that should only be for jobs where you're in charge of other peoples' safety - there's no sense in denying someone a job in an office because they've a history of suicidal thoughts; but absolutely if they're a pilot as an example.

All of this is really unsettling me, I'm flying to Belgium on Friday :worry:

You know my feeling on this... you should be wrapped in bubble-wrap whenever you're not tucked up in bed. Oh, and get a rail so you don't fall out.

[AnnieK]

I don't know about other airlines but my brother flies for BA and they have quite stringent tests every 6 months to ensure their safety to fly. I know he has to have regular medicals but am not really sure what they would entail.

[Cherie]

This is very true, I'm getting a Megabus to Edinburgh :umm2: #prayforZ

Megabus :omgno:

[arista]

"Premeditated Murder"
by the Evil German Pilot


His Computer Hard Drive
had data on Locking Door
and how to go down fast


Fecking Outrageous that Germany says its a Accident

[Cherie]

"Premeditated Murder"
by the Evil German Pilot


His Computer Hard Drive
had data on Locking Door
and how to go down fast


Fecking Outrageous that Germany says its a Accident

The second black box revealed he had accelerated the descent