It's official: Firing squads in Utah allowed

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/24/official-firing-squads-utah-allowed/70366174/

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/shutterstock_940935581.jpg

SALT LAKE CITY – Utah became the only state to allow firing squads for executions Monday when Gov. Gary Herbert signed a law approving the controversial method's use when no lethal-injection drugs are available.

Herbert has said he finds the firing squad "a little bit gruesome," but Utah is a capital punishment state and needs a backup execution method in case a shortage of the drugs persists.

:clap1:


Far better idea than fannying around with electricity and drugs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/24/1427218679097/9b53bd92-acbb-43a2-8cde-57eff3158184-620x401.png


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/utah-execution-firing-squad-death-penalty

[Kizzy]

What the heck happened in 99! 2 a week D:

[Crimson Dynamo]

What the heck happened in 99! 2 a week D:

lots of perps

lots of justice

[JoshBB]

oh ****ing hell,

we can get used to extremism now it appears the republicans could win

[empire]

it sounds like the us leaders are in fear of the people, I can see a civil war happening, soon in a few years time, that country is now a police state, fire squads is the sort of thing that control's through fear, of the people not to rise up, lethal injection is painless, than a firing squad, type of death,

[JoshBB]

it sounds like the us leaders are in fear of the people, I can see a civil war happening, soon in a few years time, that country is now a police state, fire squads is the sort of thing that control's through fear, of the people not to rise up, lethal injection is painless, than a firing squad, type of death,

it's a real step backwards :(

[kirklancaster]

lots of perps

lots of justice

:nono: Not true LT - Utah is the Morman capital of the USA, and all that happened during that period, is that the state executed the entire clan of the Osmonds for crimes against music and that boosted the total.:laugh:

[Kizzy]

Mormons? bit bloodthirsty for religious folks :/

[empire]

utah is the morman bible belt of the nation, some of there parents are really strict with their children, some of there punishments towards there own children would shock you, they use, some sort of arrange type marriage, called placement marriage, morman church is a little bit backward for my understanding,

[Kizzy]

You're lucky... ALL churches are a little bit backwards in my understanding :laugh:

[lostalex]

only 35 people were put to death in the US last year? that blows my mind. 35 people out of over 300 million??

for some reason i thought there were a lot more people being killed by the death penalty.

as far as the firing squad thing goes, it doesn't bother me. i'd rather get the firing squad than worry about a botched lethal injection execution.

[lostalex]

utah is the morman bible belt of the nation, some of there parents are really strict with their children, some of there punishments towards there own children would shock you, they use, some sort of arrange type marriage, called placement marriage, morman church is a little bit backward for my understanding,

i think southern baptists are far more extreme than the mormons.

[BBfanUSA]

Firing Squads are more ethic nowadays than the poison that they inject if you get the chair.

[jennyjuniper]

:nono: Not true LT - Utah is the Morman capital of the USA, and all that happened during that period, is that the state executed the entire clan of the Osmonds for crimes against music and that boosted the total.:laugh:

Thanks for that Kirk. I woke up feeling grumpy, read your post and had my first laugh of the day.:laugh::laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Thanks for that Kirk. I woke up feeling grumpy, read your post and had my first laugh of the day.:laugh::laugh:

No prob Jenny - Glad someone got the joke.:laugh:

[user104658]

it sounds like the us leaders are in fear of the people, I can see a civil war happening, soon in a few years time, that country is now a police state, fire squads is the sort of thing that control's through fear, of the people not to rise up, lethal injection is painless, than a firing squad, type of death,
Painless? Well yeah I guess, if you consider having your body paralysed by intense muscle cramps and then being unable to move, speak or breathe properly while you're injected with another substance that makes you have a heart attack to be "painless"...

I'd rather have them put a bullet between my eyes to be honest.

[letmein]

Quite a lot of sociopaths in this thread.

[Niamh.]

Painless? Well yeah I guess, if you consider having your body paralysed by intense muscle cramps and then being unable to move, speak or breathe properly while you're injected with another substance that makes you have a heart attack to be "painless"...

I'd rather have them put a bullet between my eyes to be honest.

Same here

[Kizzy]

How is lethal injection not working,massive sedative and a poison.. what's the problem?

Many venoms can kill in minutes, if you were sedated then injected with a pre prepared dose of venom then it would be game over.

It would be less damaging to the person administering the punishment, who (in there right mind) would want to blow someones brains out?

[smudgie]

Firing squad is just too barbaric for me.

They can put a dog to sleep painlessly in no time at all, surely they can do the same with humans:shrug:

[Livia]

I'd take a hail of bullets over a needle.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Firing squad is just too barbaric for me.

They can put a dog to sleep painlessly in no time at all, surely they can do the same with humans:shrug:

The drug companies will not sell to the states involved as they dont want their products associated.

Why they dont make them kneel down in a grave and pop them one in the back of the head with a rifle is beyond me:shrug:

[user104658]

How is lethal injection not working,massive sedative and a poison.. what's the problem?

Many venoms can kill in minutes, if you were sedated then injected with a pre prepared dose of venom then it would be game over.

It would be less damaging to the person administering the punishment, who (in there right mind) would want to blow someones brains out?
The anaesthetic isn't administered by doctors or trained anaesthetists, post-mortem studies of adrenaline levels etc. Suggest that huge numbers of people (many studies show higher than 50%, some show up to 90%) killed by lethal injection experience pain, with up to 40% actually being conscious during the process.

There are two elements of sedation. One knocks you out so that you are unaware, the other is a muscle relaxant that paralyses you - so you can't move, open your eyes or make a sound. The former is a balancing act and can fail, the latter is reliable. This means you can appear to be unconscious but actually be fully aware, but completely paralysed.

The third injection that kills you causes intense muscle spasms and contractions, literally burns in the blood, and causes cardiac arrest. Which you could also feel until your heart actually stops.

...or you could take a large caliber bullet to the head and be dead before you even hear the shot. I'd opt for that, personally.

[Kizzy]

Then refine the process, How difficult can it be to render someone unconscious?
Many have general anesthetics everyday while they are operated on, can this not be manipulated so they simply slip away?
I didn't really appreciate the description to be honest, nor did I request it.
Those with a morbid fascination for guns might feel this is some natural born killers Hollywood inspired death, I think the reality it will be very different. It does not take into consideration the person having to do the shooting either.

[kirklancaster]

Then refine the process, How difficult can it be to render someone unconscious?
Many have general anesthetics everyday while they are operated on, can this not be manipulated so they simply slip away?
I didn't really appreciate the description to be honest, nor did I request it.
Those with a morbid fascination for guns might feel this is some natural born killers Hollywood inspired death, I think the reality it will be very different. It does not take into consideration the person having to do the shooting either.

Some of the the shooters are given duds but none of them know which ones, so no one can know whose shots actually killed the 'victim'. The same process was routine in the British Army some years ago.

[Kizzy]

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

this is why i suggest shoot them over an open grave and then when they fall in, dead, just fill it in and move on

[Kizzy]

this is why i suggest shoot them over an open grave and then when they fall in, dead, just fill it in and move on

Did you see that in a film?... This is real life, that would never happen.

[Shaun]

This is depressing.

[Kizzy]

It's a thread about killing people, what were you expecting shaun? :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's a thread about killing people, what were you expecting shaun? :laugh:

:joker:

[user104658]

Then refine the process, How difficult can it be to render someone unconscious?
Many have general anesthetics everyday while they are operated on, can this not be manipulated so they simply slip away?
I didn't really appreciate the description to be honest, nor did I request it.
Those with a morbid fascination for guns might feel this is some natural born killers Hollywood inspired death, I think the reality it will be very different. It does not take into consideration the person having to do the shooting either.
There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

[Samuel.]

Y'all really comparing firing squads and lethal injections as if the death sentence is okay in the first place?

Of all the forums I've been a part of, turns out the one about Big Brother is the darkest... who knew

[kirklancaster]

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

It's proven to help the 'shooters' psychologically, and I hardly think the 'firing squad' do the cleaning and clearing, and whoever does do it will most certainly be blasé about it - as indeed mortuary staff are.

[kirklancaster]

There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

1,000% accurate T.S.

[Kizzy]

There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

Wow we really are having to labour a point here.....
It's not hard to render someone unconscious, if you don't agree that's fine.
I find firing squads a huge backwards step.

[user104658]

Wow we really are having to labour a point here.....
It's not hard to render someone unconscious, if you don't agree that's fine.
I find firing squads a huge backwards step.
I don't "not agree" I just know it isn't the case, Kizzy. I'm sure all of the anaesthetists - who train for ten to twelve YEARS to become fully qualified - would disagree with the statement that it's "not hard to render someone unconscious".

It's a slightly moot point as I actually don't really agree with the death sentence at all. But if it must be done, there are much quicker and completely painless ways to carry it out.

The lethal injection became popular because it's "more modern seeming" and "cleaner". It's certainly preferable to the electric chair which was in common usage in the US. However, just because it's the cleanest and quietest way does not mean it's necessarily the most humane.

[Kizzy]

I don't "not agree" I just know it isn't the case, Kizzy. I'm sure all of the anesthetists - who train for ten to twelve YEARS to become fully qualified - would disagree with the statement that it's "not hard to render someone unconscious".

It's a slightly moot point as I actually don't really agree with the death sentence at all. But if it must be done, there are much quicker and completely painless ways to carry it out.

The lethal injection became popular because it's "more modern seeming" and "cleaner". It's certainly preferable to the electric chair which was in common usage in the US. However, just because it's the cleanest and quietest way does not mean it's necessarily the most humane.

You may say they wouldn't want to do this, but you don't know this as a fact...
The ethical debate around the death penalty is as pertinent to those in the medical profession as anyone. If you had an anesthetist who was pro the death penalty they may not feel as conflicted about being involved, you couldn't confidently suggest that is not a possibility.

I don't find firing squads humane or ethical.

[user104658]

I don't find firing squads humane or ethical either, but no less than lethal injection. I don't really think there is a humane or ethical way to kill someone. If it must be done then it should be done with the least chance of pain. That isn't the needle. It's that simple.

Even if it was perfected I don't think it's humane. You would feel yourself drifting. Even pain free, that's not instant. You feel your eyes drooping and that you're edging towards a sleep that you will never wake up from. Most people would prefer an instant death, surely?

[AnnieK]

No form of capital punishment is humane in my opinion. If it has to be carried out it should only be in circumstances of absolute guilt.

However, had someone killed one of mine...I'd gladly fire the gun, press the needle or pull the lever.

Hmmm....I think I have some double standards going on.

[Kizzy]

If their last moments are as spent reflecting on their crime as they drift away then that is as respectful as can be expected.
Anticipating a hail of bullets is an unnecessarily violent end, causing huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress. It's an ordeal rather than a procedure, and let's not forget that the method is not the punishment.

[lostalex]

what if they could install some type of poison gas vents in the death row cells, that way they could pump gas into the cell of the prisoner while they are sleeping and the prisoner would not even know it was happening or when it would happen. i think that would be the most humane way. that way they would just pass away in their sleep and not be scared before they die.

[Tom4784]

They might as well legalise it given how the US police force seem to be executing people left and right anyway.

[lostalex]

They might as well legalise it given how the US police force seem to be executing people left and right anyway.

There's no such thing as a US police force.

[Kyle]

Wow, facing off a group of lads with guns. That's the kind of thing that would make one sh*t one's temple garments amiright kirk?

Not a fan of the death penalty at all but between being subjected to a Mormon mission or a hailstorm of bullets I'll take being a human Swiss cheese any day of the week.

[user104658]

If their last moments are as spent reflecting on their crime as they drift away then that is as respectful as can be expected.
Anticipating a hail of bullets is an unnecessarily violent end, causing huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress. It's an ordeal rather than a procedure, and let's not forget that the method is not the punishment.

So standing against a wall anticipating a hail of bullets causes a huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress... but being strapped to a table anticipating an injection that will cause your heart to spasm and stop doesn't? In fact, it somehow induces a state of almost meditation-like calm where the person philosophically ponders the implications of their crime? Yes that seems entirely plausible.

Again Kizzy I'm not saying that it isn't an ordeal, or that it isn't barbaric... I'm not saying that the firing squad isn't bad. I'm saying it isn't worse than the lethal injection. It's not that I think death by firing squad is A-OK, it's just that I think you have a very muted and idealised concept of what's involved with the lethal injection. It's NOT like a vet putting down a dog, at all.

I sort of agree with Alex - if it really must be done, the most humane way would be to somehow poison them in their sleep, ideally without them even knowing exactly when it's going to happen. They just go to sleep one night like any other night and don't wake up.

[Livia]

The demise of the kind of people who receive the death penalty concerns me less than what they did to their victims and what they put them through. They haven't received the death penalty for unpaid parking fines.

[Kizzy]

So standing against a wall anticipating a hail of bullets causes a huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress... but being strapped to a table anticipating an injection that will cause your heart to spasm and stop doesn't? In fact, it somehow induces a state of almost meditation-like calm where the person philosophically ponders the implications of their crime? Yes that seems entirely plausible.

Again Kizzy I'm not saying that it isn't an ordeal, or that it isn't barbaric... I'm not saying that the firing squad isn't bad. I'm saying it isn't worse than the lethal injection. It's not that I think death by firing squad is A-OK, it's just that I think you have a very muted and idealised concept of what's involved with the lethal injection. It's NOT like a vet putting down a dog, at all.

I sort of agree with Alex - if it really must be done, the most humane way would be to somehow poison them in their sleep, ideally without them even knowing exactly when it's going to happen. They just go to sleep one night like any other night and don't wake up.

I didn't say it was like a dog being but down did I?...
I have as much as an insight as you TS as neither of us have been within 10,000 miles of an execution.
I don't agree with bringing back firing squads and I don't agree with bringing back the gas chamber either.

If the punishment is death then no matter how violent the crime the penance is the act of execution not the style.

[kirklancaster]

Wow, facing off a group of lads with guns. That's the kind of thing that would make one sh*t one's temple garments amiright kirk?

Not a fan of the death penalty at all but between being subjected to a Mormon mission or a hailstorm of bullets I'll take being a human Swiss cheese any day of the week.

:joker: Right again Kyle (you smarty twot :laugh:)

[Tom4784]

There's no such thing as a US police force.

Pedantics are for people who have nothing to contribute.

[Ammi]

..is there a humane way to extinguish a life/that would seem contradictory...the death penalty no matter what the method was is wrong imo...

[lily.]

I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but I'd rather go down in a hail of bullets than strapped to a gurney or an electric chair..