Do you think...

[Redway]

... that we existed prior to conception (i.e., before we were born)? Or something else?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No

/thread

[Jessica.]

No, anyone with common sense knows that we only began our existence as a foetus.

[Northern Monkey]

Impossible by definition.Unless you count the sperm and ovary as 'we' but just not fully formed.
I certainly can't remember swimming around in my dads sack.

[Mystic Mock]

It's an interesting idea, I do believe that there is some supernatural things out there (obviously not the kind that you see on TV lol) I think my answer is a no though, but you can never say never with things like this.

[Redway]

No, anyone with common sense knows that we only began our existence as a foetus.

I agree (I'm an atheist) but people with more spiritual/religious beliefs may think otherwise so...

And being open to spiritual matters doesn't automatically make the person lack common sense.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree (I'm an atheist) but people with more spiritual/religious beliefs may think otherwise so...

People write fictional books too.

We are but brief lives between 2 endless oblivions

[Ninastar]

No, anyone with common sense knows that we only began our existence as a foetus.

Plenty of people with 'common sense' believe in other lives... No need to act all high and mighty.

And to answer the question, I too believe that there is no life before conception.

[GypsyGoth]

... that we existed prior to conception (i.e., before we were born)? Or something else?

Nope, it's the joining of our parents' dna that makes us who we are, before that happened there was no us to exist.

[Jessica.]

Plenty of people with 'common sense' believe in other lives... No need to act all high and mighty.

And to answer the question, I too believe that there is no life before conception.

I wasn't acting high and mighty, it's completely impossible for us to have existed before our physical existence, impossible, it's a fact, I'm not trying to hate on any beliefs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People believe all sorts of crap but that has zero effect on reality.

And having crazy beliefs do not require anyone to respect them

[kirklancaster]

Deleted.

[JoshBB]

I find it really interesting, and where you cannot prove/disprove it I would probably say I am 90% sure it doesn't exist. It's more moral than heaven/hell imo too

[Redway]

I wasn't acting high and mighty, it's completely impossible for us to have existed before our physical existence, impossible, it's a fact, I'm not trying to hate on any beliefs.

From a purely scientific standpoint, yeah. I'm by no means a spiritualist by any stretch of the imagination and I myself am more inclined towards science and logic but being open to more abstract ideas doesn't make someone lacking in common sense as you explicitly stated. It's called a different perspective on life.

[Jessica.]

From a purely scientific standpoint, yeah. I'm by no means a spiritualist by any stretch of the imagination and I myself am more inclined towards science and logic but being open to more abstract ideas doesn't make someone lacking in common sense as you explicitly stated. It's called a different perspective on life.

Well, maybe I shouldn't have phrased my original comment how I did but it's just my opinion. :shrug: I know for a fact that there is no existence before physical existence so I'm saying that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its just wistful wishful thinking but there is not a shred of evidence.

Its as credible as a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow

[JoshBB]

Its just wistful wishful thinking but there is not a shred of evidence.

Its as credible as a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow

Unfortunately I do think LT is correct. There is no evidence other than the accounts of others which can be unreliable.

[Livia]

...We are but brief lives between 2 endless oblivions

Have you ever thought about joining the Samaritan's Trumpet?

[DemolitionRed]

The matter and energy that we were constructed from did exist because energy can neither be created or destroyed; you can only change its form.

[kirklancaster]

It should be no secret on here by now that I am an unorthodox Christian, but I believe in Reincarnation.

I do not know the mind of God or have any answers - only theories - but there is just too much documented genuine evidence of people - especially children - who have knowledge of previous existences for this phenomena to be dismissed.

I researched Reincarnation many years ago when I was 'searching' for answers to life and examined different religions and philosophies but to save me finding my old files and having to scan documents etc into my pc for posting purposes, I will post links to relevant articles, or you could all just google, say, 'Genuine cases of Reincarnation' or suchlike.

Anyway, my own theory is as follows:

Suppose that when we die, a type of invisible and intangible force or energy, which I'll call 'memory energy', leaves the prefontal celebral cortex or other parts of the brain responsible for memories, and returns to a 'belt' of 'memory energy' which comprises of the collective memory energy of every deceased person since the dawn of mankind? This 'belt could be in our dimension or some other, and every time a new baby is about to be born it 'draws down' the amount of 'memory energy' necessary for it to it to start its life.

Perhaps we are not meant to be able to access any previous memories which may be 'stored' in this 'draw down', but perhaps - due to some physiological abberations peculiar to them - certain individuals can sometimes accidently access them. Or perhaps ALL of us may accidentally 'tap in' to such prestored historical memories when conditions are precisely 'just right' to afford us access to them.

I do not have answers, but my theory COULD explain the well documented cases of people (mainly children) who have accurate memories of previous existences, and even 'Deja Vu' in others.

I do not blindly BELIEVE all paranormal or supernatural claims, but I am not such a bigot that I point blank refuse to consider well documented phenomena just because it lies outside the narrow parameters of that which we call 'science'.
I CHOSE to believe in Christ after exhaustive research of several religions and philosophies, because - after cross referencing and analysing - I was LOGICALLY persuaded by the evidence.

It is the same with this.

Incidentally Jessica, we may begin our PHYSICAL existence as a foetus, but there is more to life than the physical body, because as wonderfully complex as our nervous systems and brains may be, the neurones and synapses and cortex et al, are just the machinery - what about Higher Thought? Conciousness? Reasoning?

There is no needlepoint of knowing at which precise instant human life begins, let alone just what actually constitutes and defines 'life' and remember that in no other field are there more 'U' Turns' than in Science. Yesterday's scientific 'Fact' is tomorrow's abandoned 'theory'.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2003/02/Is-Reincarnation-Real-The-Case-Of-Parmod-Sharma.aspx

http://www.jaicobooks.com/j/PDF/30%20Most%20Convincing%20case.pdf

[kirklancaster]

Have you ever thought about joining the Samaritan's Trumpet?

:joker: "O Cruelty, thy name is woman"

Can you imagine how the suicide rate would shoot up if LT did join the Samaritans? :joker:

[Jessica.]

The matter and energy that we were constructed from did exist because energy can neither be created or destroyed; you can only change its form.

The energy inside our mothers womb fused us and our cells began multiplying, eventually our hearts matured enough to begin beating and our brains matured enough to give us senses and movement. Every object, even the most still, has potential energy, it can't be created or destroyed, but everything has some form of energy already, even if only potential. That is nothing to do with this anyway, it's a strange argument. :joker:

[Ninastar]

My god, people are allowed different opinions, even if you think you're 1000000% right. No one knows for certain... you say you're not acting all high and mighty, but you are.

[Kizzy]

I believe we have all lived before.

[Dollface]

I wasn't acting high and mighty, it's completely impossible for us to have existed before our physical existence, impossible, it's a fact, I'm not trying to hate on any beliefs.

Just as you believe it's impossible, there are those that believe it is possible and it's a bit harsh to insinuate that the people that do believe in reincarnation lack common sense. I know others have called you out on this so i don't wanna like jump on the slug :laugh: but i just wanted to say that i thought it was a bit of bad wording

Personally i don't believe in reincarnation, although a part of me kinda does, tbh i haven't a clue lmao, i haven't given it much thought.

[Niamh.]

Jump on the slug :hehe:

[Jessica.]

It's not just a belief though, I know this for a fact, I know what is reality and what is fiction, I haven't mentioned anything about religion or reincarnation or whatever else it concerns, all I'm saying is that I know none of that exists, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating facts, not beliefs.

[Marsh.]

It's not just a belief though, I know this for a fact, I know what is reality and what is fiction, I haven't mentioned anything about religion or reincarnation or whatever else it concerns, all I'm saying is that I know none of that exists, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating facts, not beliefs.

Facts have conclusive evidence. :smug:

[Marsh.]

I believe we have all lived before.

Well it certainly feels like you've been around forever. :idc:

[Ninastar]

It's not just a belief though, I know this for a fact, I know what is reality and what is fiction, I haven't mentioned anything about religion or reincarnation or whatever else it concerns, all I'm saying is that I know none of that exists, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating facts, not beliefs.

Again though, this is only your opinion. You don't know either and neither do I. The truth is we will never find out and opinions like this are just (and i hate using this word) prejudiced. You're implying that people who believe differently to you are dumb and don't have any sense, which is just wrong.

[Jessica.]

Again though, this is only your opinion. You don't know either and neither do I. The truth is we will never find out and opinions like this are just (and i hate using this word) prejudiced. You're implying that people who believe differently to you are dumb and don't have any sense, which is just wrong.

I haven't called anyone dumb. :shrug: The idea of reincarnation was invented by humans in a time where nobody was educated and everyone died young and was scared of death, of course people believed all kinds of things to make themselves feel better back then, it's probably a nice thing to believe in. I just can't find anything rational about it in modern day society.

I am just answering the question, why am I being called out for having a strong opinion on it. :shrug: I haven't actually insulted someone personally, it's like saying anyone with common sense wouldn't smoke, some may be offended but nobody is going to cry themselves to sleep.

[Ninastar]

If you can't see how insulting you're being, then shame on you. I'm not repeating myself again and again.

[Marsh.]

I am just answering the question, why am I being called out for having a strong opinion on it.

You're not. You're being called out for claiming your opinion is a fact.

There is a difference.

[Ninastar]

Thank you marsh.

[DemolitionRed]

The energy inside our mothers womb fused us and our cells began multiplying, eventually our hearts matured enough to begin beating and our brains matured enough to give us senses and movement. Every object, even the most still, has potential energy, it can't be created or destroyed, but everything has some form of energy already, even if only potential. That is nothing to do with this anyway, it's a strange argument. :joker:

Before those cells are encouraged to multiply, energy has to be drawn in from outside and those fundamental elements have to be drawn in and delivered by the umbilical blood. We put the energy into the blood by eating and breathing. We are borrowing our energy from outside sources.

IMO we don't get reincarnated from one whole being to another but are made up from millions of different things, so although I don't believe in reincarnation in the truest sense of the word; we were still present before we became human forms.

[Jessica.]

You're not. You're being called out for claiming your opinion is a fact.

There is a difference.

It is fact though. :nono: Reincarnation doesn't exist and there is no actual proof of it, it just spreads through word of mouth from one generation to the next.

Our consciousness starts as soon as our brain develops enough to enable us to have one, it ends when we die, when our brain dies our consciousness dies too, there is no real evidence to dispute that.

[Jessica.]

Before those cells are encouraged to multiply, energy has to be drawn in from outside and those fundamental elements have to be drawn in and delivered by the umbilical blood. We put the energy into the blood by eating and breathing. We are borrowing our energy from outside sources.

IMO we don't get reincarnated from one whole being to another but are made up from millions of different things, so although I don't believe in reincarnation in the truest sense of the word; we were still present before we became human forms.

The gamete coming from the male gets energy from the fructose surrounding it. After it fuses with the gamete from the female it is sustained by oestrogen and progesterone until the blastocyst attaches, soon after that the placenta begins forming and transferring nutrients from the mother. That should be known by most people who studied reproduction during biology classes in school. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

It is fact though.

No it isn't. It's an opinion.

That should be known by most people who studied english classes in school. :shrug:

[Mystic Mock]

From a purely scientific standpoint, yeah. I'm by no means a spiritualist by any stretch of the imagination and I myself am more inclined towards science and logic but being open to more abstract ideas doesn't make someone lacking in common sense as you explicitly stated. It's called a different perspective on life.

The thing is Science can't answer everything, but of course us being around before being a Foetus sounds absolutely absurd, but I think there's a lot of things in the universe that neither us or Science will ever be able to explain.

Obviously Science is the best way to prove/disprove something though.

And I agree with you that having spiritual beliefs doesn't make the person have less common sense, if anything that's quite a narrow minded opinion for anybody to have.

[Kizzy]

Well it certainly feels like you've been around forever. :idc:

Oh I have, and I come back stronger every time.

[Marsh.]

Oh I have, and I come back stronger every time.

:smug:

[Livia]

It is fact though. :nono: Reincarnation doesn't exist and there is no actual proof of it, it just spreads through word of mouth from one generation to the next.

Our consciousness starts as soon as our brain develops enough to enable us to have one, it ends when we die, when our brain dies our consciousness dies too, there is no real evidence to dispute that.

Philosophers have pondered this question for millennia. Who'da thought the definitive answer would be on this thread?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It has the same validity as the loch ness monster and nothing more

[Nedusa]

Have you ever thought about joining the Samaritan's Trumpet?

:joker::joker:

[DemolitionRed]

The gamete coming from the male gets energy from the fructose surrounding it. After it fuses with the gamete from the female it is sustained by oestrogen and progesterone until the blastocyst attaches, soon after that the placenta begins forming and transferring nutrients from the mother. That should be known by most people who studied reproduction during biology classes in school. :shrug:


And fructose gages its energy from outside sources and so on and so on. That was my point but you're clearly not interested in engaging in conversation other than in a patronizing manner.

Whilst you may be cleverer than me in the biology department, your social skills are lacking.

[lostalex]

did my physical matter exist before i was born? yes.

did my consciousness exist before i was born? no.

frankly I'm not even sure my consciousness existed before puberty.

and if i get dementia before i die, I'm not sure my consciousness will exist even before I die.

If you lose your consciousness before you die, what are you really? the same nothingness that you were before you were born i guess.

Most of the people i've met in this life were mindless animals.

[kirklancaster]

did my physical matter exist before i was born? yes.

did my consciousness exist before i was born? no.

frankly I'm not even sure my consciousness existed before puberty.

and if i get dementia before i die, I'm not sure my consciousness will exist even before I die.

If you lose your consciousness before you die, what are you really? the same nothingness that you were before you were born i guess.

Most of the people i've met in this life were mindless animals.

There's actually a lot of truth in there Alex.

[kirklancaster]

Jump on the slug :hehe:

Poor LT was sitting at the kitchen table drinking whiskey from a large pitcher and was well pissed when he MIS-READ this from you Niamh, and being a good obedient male he drank the last drop then collapsed over the pitcher.

I woke him up at 5.am and asked him what the hell he was doing, and he said;

"Niamh said; 'slump on the jug' " :blush:

[Kyle]

So for all of you reincarnated folks, which one of ya was Hitler? Own up now, come on.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnvj3ahoWG1qirf7d.gif

[kirklancaster]

So for all of you reincarnated folks, which one of ya was Hitler? Own up now, come on.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnvj3ahoWG1qirf7d.gif

:joker::joker::joker:

[Ninastar]

So for all of you reincarnated folks, which one of ya was Hitler? Own up now, come on.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnvj3ahoWG1qirf7d.gif

lmfao

[Kizzy]

It's funny how the concept of angels and demons and little green men from mars is accepted, yet this is a concept far too extreme to comprehend.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's funny how the concept of angels and demons and little green men from mars is accepted, yet this is a concept far too extreme to comprehend.

Look to those who accept that and then find your answer

[kirklancaster]

It's funny how the concept of angels and demons and little green men from mars is accepted, yet this is a concept far too extreme to comprehend.

Sit down Kizzy. Take a deep breath. I actually AGREE with you. :laugh:

[lostalex]

since when is the concept of angels and demons and little green men accepted? did i miss the memo? did the BBC make an announcement that i'm not aware of?

[Kizzy]

Ever heard of Catholicism Alex? it's a quaint little Christian faith that believes demons drag you to hell when you die if you don't perform on earth correctly and repent regularly.

It is also pretty well established that the possibility of alien life inhabits a portion of if not our galaxy then another.

[Jessica.]

Just the fact that angels, demons and little green men were compared to this by a "believer" proves my point exactly.

I don't believe in angels or demons. I do believe it's possible to have life on other planets. If there's life on this one, the conditions to support life on another planet is quite likely, there's probably micro organisms at least. :)

[Kizzy]

Just the fact that angels, demons and little green men were compared to this by a "believer" proves my point exactly.

I don't believe in angels or demons. I do believe it's possible to have life on other planets. If there's life on this one, the conditions to support life on another planet is quite likely, there's probably micro organisms at least. :)

Why is your belief in little green men any more valid than mine in reincarnation Jessica?
If you've expanded your mind enough to accept that concept then it wouldn't be much of a stretch to accommodate another uncorroborated theory.

[lostalex]

Ever heard of Catholicism Alex? it's a quaint little Christian faith that believes demons drag you to hell when you die if you don't perform on earth correctly and repent regularly.

It is also pretty well established that the possibility of alien life inhabits a portion of if not our galaxy then another.

I've heard of it, raised in it, forced to go to RE classes twice a week as a child.... but i don't know anyone that took it seriously...

and as far as alien life existing, what science class did you go to? i've never seen any evenidence that it is "well established" at all...especially not in any science classroom. did your science teachers really say that the existence of intelligent life visiting earth is normal and accepted?

i think you are internetting too much, in the real world these things are not taken seriously at all.

[AnnieK]

Having just lost someone very close to me, I hope we go on in some shape or form. My mum was terrified of the prospect of the end being just that, the end. Unfortunately, it is one thing that can never be proven I guess.

[Kizzy]

The pope and the millions of practicing Catholics across the globe might?

And the best scientific minds in NASA are open to the possibility of alien life...

http://news.yahoo.com/signs-alien-life-found-2025-nasas-chief-scientist-212655192.html

[lostalex]

i think the vast majority of people should hope for oblivion after death, because most people deserve very harsh punishments for all of their lives, and deceptions, and cruelty they perpetrated in this world.

if there is a hell, i would guess that at least 99% of people go there based upon their actions in this life.

but i don't think there is one.

[lostalex]

The pope and the millions of practicing Catholics across the globe might?

And the best scientific minds in NASA are open to the possibility of alien life...

http://news.yahoo.com/signs-alien-life-found-2025-nasas-chief-scientist-212655192.html

you are contradicting yourself kizzy, you've now reduced your statement to "might" which is very different to what you've said before.

and "open to the possibility" is just a silly thing to say.

[Kizzy]

i think the vast majority of people should hope for oblivion after death, because most people deserve very harsh punishments for all of their lives, and deceptions, and cruelty they perpetrated in this world.

if there is a hell, i would guess that at least 99% of people go there based upon their actions in this life.

but i don't think there is one.

Are you sure those bible classes had no effect?...

[lostalex]

Are you sure those bible classes had no effect?...

i'm sure that no one could live up to the ideal standards of god, and if god is as cruel as the bible says he is, they'd deserve all that they get.

BUT...thankfully it's all just a lie.

[Jessica.]

Having just lost someone very close to me, I hope we go on in some shape or form. My mum was terrified of the prospect of the end being just that, the end. Unfortunately, it is one thing that can never be proven I guess.
:hug: I felt like that when I lost my aunt a few years ago. Now that it's hit me properly I'm just happy that she can at least live on in my memories for the rest of my life. :flutter:

[Kizzy]

you are contradicting yourself kizzy, you've now reduced your statement to "might" which is very different to what you've said before.

and "open to the possibility" is just a silly thing to say.

I most certainly have not...

The pope certainly does in my opinion very much believe in angels and demons so much so he's dedicated his whole life to Catholic teaching.

'Open to the possibility' is all anyone can be if there is nothing tangible.
If NASA scientist are not ruling the possibility out then they for me are more qualified in their opinion at this point.

[lostalex]

I most certainly have not...

The pope certainly does in my opinion very much believe in angels and demons so much so he's dedicated his whole life to Catholic teaching.

'Open to the possibility' is all anyone can be if there is nothing tangible.
If NASA scientist are not ruling the possibility out then they for me are more qualified in their opinion at this point.

so you've chosen an extreme example (of course the pop has to say out loud he believes those things!) and then saying Nasa believes it's a possibility! it's also a possibility that minotaurs exist in a parallel universe, so what?

that's very different then you saying before that most people accept that angels and demons and little green men are real.

you are really stretching it kizzy.

[Livia]

Having just lost someone very close to me, I hope we go on in some shape or form. My mum was terrified of the prospect of the end being just that, the end. Unfortunately, it is one thing that can never be proven I guess.

I don't believe they ever really leave us, Annie. And if anyone's thinking of trying to change my mind on that, well... you've got no chance.

[Kizzy]

so you've chosen an extreme example (of course the pop has to say out loud he believes those things!) and then saying Nasa believes it's a possibility! it's also a possibility that minotaurs exist in a parallel universe, so what?

that's very different then you saying before that most people accept that angels and demons and little green men are real.

you are really stretching it kizzy.

Nope, the millions of Catholics are willing to believe in them if not yourself.

And as for alien life if you ask around not that many are surprised if it's generally accepted that there is alien life, you may not think so but ask around ... it's not a stretch, there's threads on here where it's discussed at length even.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Having just lost someone very close to me, I hope we go on in some shape or form. My mum was terrified of the prospect of the end being just that, the end. Unfortunately, it is one thing that can never be proven I guess.

there are countless things that can never be proven like Unicorns and Leprechauns. However we can be as certain as we can be that life ends as it starts with oblivion.

There is no difference pulling up a weed or cutting down a tree.

Its not very sentimental but thats our lot.

[Ammi]

there are countless things that can never be proven like Unicorns and Leprechauns. However we can be as certain as we can be that life ends as it starts with oblivion.

There is no difference pulling up a weed or cutting down a tree.

Its not very sentimental but thats our lot.

..that's not something that we could ever be certain of though because we would have had to have experienced death ourselves... bodies die for sure but a body is only a part of what a person in living is, it's not 'who' they are...if someone loses a close loved one, what they lose is being able to physically have that loved one with them...but everything else the person was is still there with them/that's not something that can ever be 'lost' through death....

[Livia]

there are countless things that can never be proven like Unicorns and Leprechauns. However we can be as certain as we can be that life ends as it starts with oblivion.

There is no difference pulling up a weed or cutting down a tree.

Its not very sentimental but thats our lot.

Trumpet, that's your opinion. You don't have all the answers, no one does, so be a little sensitive to people who have lost someone, please.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trumpet, that's your opinion. You don't have all the answers, no one does, so be a little sensitive to people who have lost someone, please.

We have all lost people and facing reality is a great healing process.

The human desire to survive is incredibly strong and one offshoot of that is to invent situations where we do not abruptly cease to exist.



But I take you point and apologise

[Ammi]

We have all lost people and facing reality is a great healing process.

The human desire to survive is incredibly strong and one offshoot of that is to invent situations where we do not abruptly cease to exist.



But I take you point and apologise

..I think that everybody and like yourself who has lost someone they loved hasn't felt reality with that loss..it is very abrupt, very harsh and very real and no one needs to believe in anything to shield them from that, it's something they live every day..but the only thing that is realistic, that makes any sense or logic at all is to acknowledge....I don't know, how could I possible know..that something after death in some spiritual form is possible...you may not think it probable but it's possible and to think it isn't is the unrealistic thing...

[arista]

I believe we have all lived before.


Yes I met you
back in the 1600's


You was a hell of a lady
then
as well

It was a leap year


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1652

[Marsh.]

Most of the people i've met in this life were mindless animals.

That's America for you honey.

[Kizzy]

Yes I met you
back in the 1600's


You was a hell of a lady
then
as well

It was a leap year


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1652

Was I selling violets and you wearing a three cornered hat? I think I remember you :)

[arista]

Was I selling violets and you wearing a three cornered hat? I think I remember you :)



Yes and you smiled at me

[Northern Monkey]

I don't totally 100% rule out the idea of life after death,To do so would be too presumtuous imo.Because,Well.....
I don't know.
However i am of the belief that once our heart stops pumping blood,Our lungs stop taking in oxygen and our brain shuts down and those chemicals stop being produced and electrical signals stop firing then that is it.Nothing is left,The spark of life is gone.
As for life on other planets,Whatever form that may take.I am of the mind that it is not only possible but highly probable.Our universe is bigger than any of us could imagine,Even our galaxy.Billions upon billions of stars.It is highly probable imo that atleast a few of these stars will have a planet made from rock and metal,Within the right distance from its star to have liquid water and possible life.
This life could look much different to our own dependant on such things as gravity and atmospheric conditions etc but something living could be out there.
Even on planets which would be hostile to us with high amounts of chemicals like sulphur etc etc could possibly hold some kind of life which thrives in that enviroment.
As for reincarnation,As it contradicts the first of my beliefs in this post,Imo it is just wishful thinking.

[Nedusa]

I think this thread needs re-incarnating in the Chat & Games forum.