Near-Identical Jesus Myths That Predate Jesus

[Niamh.]

Interesting read, thoughts?

I studied history in college, and spent a lot of my time researching ancient civilizations and comparative religions. As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Some of the most fascinating projects that I did in college involved comparing ancient mythology to modern religious beliefs, finding similarities and multiple parallels. For example, anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths (that’s not to say they are not true, but just that they are mythical stories). These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Today, I will present to you five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus.

Please note that many of these stories have differing translations and interpretations, some of which tell different stories. The main idea of this list is to remind you that the story of Jesus is rooted in ancient myth.

Horus (3100 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/SUdvgO4.png?1

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

Buddha (563 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/Ny4krWW.jpg?2

Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.

Mithra (2000 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/WiAVleV.jpg?1

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

http://the-daily.buzz/near-identical-jesus-myths-that-predate-jesus/?ts_pid=2

[JoshBB]

Interesting

[Josy]

I read about this and watched a few documentaries in the past, it is very interesting the way they are all so similar yet all supposed to be true....

[Josy]

I forgot to add, there is another documentary that attempts to debunk this stuff, they say that even though there are claims of all these similarities, none of it is actually available to read in ancient historical records.

I will try find the link later

[Livia]

The virgin birth is also present in a lot of Native American religious stories. Fascinating stuff...

[Crimson Dynamo]

2000 years ago there were tons of sons of god, all had virgin births and all ened up in reincanation. the Jesus myth was just the one that gained traction and then promoted by the romans

its a bog standard myth

[Northern Monkey]

I have the same interests in religion,Although you are more qualified than me.I especially love ancient Egyptian religions and have visited quite a few sites in Egypt.
Alot of the stories and beliefs of todays religions have their foundations in the ancient religions.Religion has evolved.

[Ramsay]

Should watch the first Zeitgiest movie. Goes into detail about this.

Copy and paste, copy and paste. All of it.

pTbIu8Zeqp0

[JoshBB]

Virgin births do actually happen in modern times as well. I remember reading about it before.

[Kizzy]

I believe our modern religions are nothing more than a Chinese whisper from ancient civilisations.

[Niamh.]

Should watch the first Zeitgiest movie. Goes into detail about this.

Copy and paste, copy and paste. All of it.

pTbIu8Zeqp0


Oh thanks Karl, I'll take a look

[Niamh.]

I believe our modern religions are nothing more than a Chinese whisper from ancient civilisations.


Yeah, pretty much what I think too

[kirklancaster]

Interesting read, thoughts?

I studied history in college, and spent a lot of my time researching ancient civilizations and comparative religions. As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Some of the most fascinating projects that I did in college involved comparing ancient mythology to modern religious beliefs, finding similarities and multiple parallels. For example, anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths (that’s not to say they are not true, but just that they are mythical stories). These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Today, I will present to you five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus.

Please note that many of these stories have differing translations and interpretations, some of which tell different stories. The main idea of this list is to remind you that the story of Jesus is rooted in ancient myth.

Horus (3100 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/SUdvgO4.png?1

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

Buddha (563 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/Ny4krWW.jpg?2

Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.

Mithra (2000 B.C.)

http://i.imgur.com/WiAVleV.jpg?1

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

http://the-daily.buzz/near-identical-jesus-myths-that-predate-jesus/?ts_pid=2

Niamh, all this is pure baloney - anti-Christian fallacy which is easily blasted out of the water because the deliberate lies it comprises of, aren't even 'clever' lies just ludicrous, easily exposed deceit. Follow this link:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-copy-horus-mithras-dionysis-pagan-gods/

Or if you believe the Zeitgeist baloney, win $1,000 dollars here:

http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

[kirklancaster]

Should watch the first Zeitgiest movie. Goes into detail about this.

Copy and paste, copy and paste. All of it.

pTbIu8Zeqp0

This is 100% pure baloney - nothing but anti-Christian B.S. from two unscrupulous, very mercenary producers, Acharya S. and Dan Brown, for the bifurcated purpose of attacking The Judeo Christian Bible and Christianity itself, and to make piles of money from gullible people who do not check their sources or invest in cross referencing them.

More later but please do not continue to push this waffle Ramsay because it is as full of crap as the infamous 'Stitchin and The Anunnaki' crock which was similarly espoused on here recently.

[kirklancaster]

I have the same interests in religion,Although you are more qualified than me.I especially love ancient Egyptian religions and have visited quite a few sites in Egypt.
Alot of the stories and beliefs of todays religions have their foundations in the ancient religions.Religion has evolved.

Do not swallow any of this baloney Paul. Follow this link:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-cop...is-pagan-gods/

Or if you believe the Zeitgeist baloney, win $1,000 dollars here:

http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

[kirklancaster]

I forgot to add, there is another documentary that attempts to debunk this stuff, they say that even though there are claims of all these similarities, none of it is actually available to read in ancient historical records.

I will try find the link later

You are correct Josy. There is a wealth of documents and books and videos written by Academics - not money grubbing deceitful liars such as Dan Brown etc which totally debunk this rubbish. Follow this link:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-cop...is-pagan-gods/

Or if you believe the Zeitgeist baloney, win $1,000 dollars here:

http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

[Ramsay]

This is 100% pure baloney - nothing but anti-Christian B.S. from two unscrupulous, very mercenary producers, Acharya S. and Dan Brown, for the bifurcated purpose of attacking The Judeo Christian Bible and Christianity itself, and to make piles of money from gullible people who do not check their sources or invest in cross referencing them.

More later but please do not continue to push this waffle Ramsay because it is as full of crap as the infamous 'Stitchin and The Anunnaki' crock which was similarly espoused on here recently.

I wasn't aware they produced it. Did Peter Joseph not do all the Zeitgeist films himself? It was directed, produced, edited, written and even the music has been credited to Joseph everywhere i've searched. I don't see how there can be any profit money wise from the films are they have all been released on youtube for free by Joseph himself. Can you point out what is wrong in the movie?

[kirklancaster]

I wasn't aware they produced it. Did Peter Joseph not do all the Zeitgeist films himself? I don't see how there can be any profit money wise from the films are they have all been released on youtube for free by Joseph himself. Can you point out what is wrong in the movie?

Hi Ramsay,

Most of the claims are deliberate deception.

The producers of Zeitgesit are Acharya S. and Dan Brown. Brown is a known anti-Christian who stole the idea (and most of the plot) of the Da Vinci Code from other authors and is only interested in making money. Here he excels himself with the level of deceit and lies he has gone to.

His co-producer - Achyra S. is a self-confessed Satanist and - Well, I'll let you read for yourself what a crank charlatan liar and nutjob she is.

Follow these links and let me know what you think mate. Top one's best and the other is from an atheist!!! :

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-copy-horus-mithras-dionysis-pagan-gods/

http://www.sullivan-county.com/bush/travilocity1.htm

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

[billy123]

Should watch the first Zeitgiest movie. Goes into detail about this.

Copy and paste, copy and paste. All of it.

pTbIu8Zeqp0


All of it is based on astrological events hence why it is all so similar most of religion comes from simpler times when these events were used as explanations for things that weren't yet understood.
The really fascinating thing is that a minority of people still believe the fairy stories and defend them despite most of society having moved on.
There are debunking videos but i haven't seen one yet that even approaches being credible.

Great post Ramsay.

[Ammi]

..good old Jesus doing a bit of promo and leaking some tasters for his upcoming Earth tour back in the day...

[Josy]

This is 100% pure baloney - nothing but anti-Christian B.S. from two unscrupulous, very mercenary producers, Acharya S. and Dan Brown, for the bifurcated purpose of attacking The Judeo Christian Bible and Christianity itself, and to make piles of money from gullible people who do not check their sources or invest in cross referencing them.

More later but please do not continue to push this waffle Ramsay because it is as full of crap as the infamous 'Stitchin and The Anunnaki' crock which was similarly espoused on here recently.

Actually Kirk, the Zeitgeist documentaries made by Peter Joseph are NOT made for profit at all.

And they concentrate on a hell of a lot more than religion, iirc (it's been a few years since I watched) only part one concentrates on religion but that's just a tiny bit of the message they are trying to get across to people so to say it's for the purpose of attacking Christianity is quite frankly '100% Baloney' in your own words and shows you have no real knowledge of them.

In fact the one message the producers attempt to get out throughout the movies is that everything is geared towards a 'one world order' including manufactured wars, corrupt bankers and so on.

Regardless if you believe everything the producers put out there, for a lot of people this movie will raise a few questions.

[kirklancaster]

All of it is based on astrological events hence why it is all so similar most of religion comes from simpler times when these events were used as explanations for things that weren't yet understood.
The really fascinating thing is that a minority of people still believe the fairy stories and defend them despite most of society having moved on.
There are debunking videos but i haven't seen one yet that even approaches being credible.

Great post Ramsay.

Whether it is Politics or Religion or whatever Bob - certain of us only see what we WANT to see and just as we will readily accept the most ludicrous of concocted and patently false articles or videos just because they 'fit' our own viewpoints, we reject the most solidly factual rebuttal articles or debunking videos just because they don't.

Those who support Richard Dawkins point to 'Science' and 'Academia' as the 'Twin Pillars' of the irrefutable case for atheism, yet those same people deny the same twin pillars when it comes to anyone rebutting or debunking this 'Zeitgeist' 'movement'?

The article in the link which I provided logically and factually demolishes the Christ/Mithras/ Horus claims in Zetgeist but it is up to all of us whether we choose to concede as much.

[Nedusa]

Actually Kirk, the Zeitgeist documentaries made by Peter Joseph are NOT made for profit at all.

And they concentrate on a hell of a lot more than religion, iirc (it's been a few years since I watched) only part one concentrates on religion but that's just a tiny bit of the message they are trying to get across to people so to say it's for the purpose of attacking Christianity is quite frankly '100% Baloney' in your own words and shows you have no real knowledge of them.

In fact the one message the producers attempt to get out throughout the movies is that everything is geared towards a 'one world order' including manufactured wars, corrupt bankers and so on.

Regardless if you believe everything the producers put out there, for a lot of people this movie will raise a few questions.

I watched the movie "Zeitgeist" a few years ago and was simply blown away by it, since then it has prompted me to carry out a lot more research into the "New world Order" and profit from Wars.

The film touches on how all religions are based on the Astromonical events that suuround the seasons together with the Zodiac. But these claims although plausible are only touched on in the Film. The film is more concerned with the banking Cartels and how Power and wealth is distributed in our world and how most major events Wars etc.. are planned and executed for a host of sinister reasons.

[kirklancaster]

Actually Kirk, the Zeitgeist documentaries made by Peter Joseph are NOT made for profit at all.

And they concentrate on a hell of a lot more than religion, iirc (it's been a few years since I watched) only part one concentrates on religion but that's just a tiny bit of the message they are trying to get across to people so to say it's for the purpose of attacking Christianity is quite frankly '100% Baloney' in your own words and shows you have no real knowledge of them.

In fact the one message the producers attempt to get out throughout the movies is that everything is geared towards a 'one world order' including manufactured wars, corrupt bankers and so on.

Regardless if you believe everything the producers put out there, for a lot of people this movie will raise a few questions.

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So Kirk what evidence convinced you that any of the (bog standard at the time) magical things in the bible happened?

and take the bible out of your answer as i am afraid that does not count as evidence

[Niamh.]

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo a victim of attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

[Kizzy]

The whole problem I have with religion as it's manifested in the modern day is that as everything today it's run as a business, having the same structure effectively as a major consortium.
And much like big business less and less money is trickling down from the top.

[Niamh.]

The whole problem I have with religion as it's manifested in the modern day is that as everything today it's run as a business, having the same structure effectively as a major consortium.
And much like big business less and less money is trickling down from the top.

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion.......... :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

[Niamh.]

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

Yeah or because this is the country I was born in, we could all be Muslims or Hindus or whatever if we'd been born in another part of the world :shrug:

[Nedusa]

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

Tell me L.T do you see faith in the same light as indoctrination about other issues like homosexuality and Lesbianism are evil, or black people are inherently less intelligent than white people.

Could it be that we have been brainwashed by successive generations to believe certain values or precepts and religion is one of them.

Perhaps as we become more enlightened religion or more specifically organised religion will come to be seen for what it actually is....???

[kirklancaster]

I watched the movie "Zeitgeist" a few years ago and was simply blown away by it, since then it has prompted me to carry out a lot more research into the "New world Order" and profit from Wars.

The film touches on how all religions are based on the Astromonical events that suuround the seasons together with the Zodiac. But these claims although plausible are only touched on in the Film. The film is more concerned with the banking Cartels and how Power and wealth is distributed in our world and how most major events Wars etc.. are planned and executed for a host of sinister reasons.

Good post as usual Nedusa.

I actually agree with a lot (not all) of the New World Order' theories and could even add to them from my own personal experience and knowledge (but won't as I am fed up of (futilely) arguing and 'flogging dead horses) but it is the Jesus/Mithros/Horus claims that I do not accept - especially when the evidence that such claims are wrong is overwhelming.

Why is it that the very same people who constantly criticise people of faith (especially Christians) for believing in 'fairy tales' or 'myths' are yet the most perversely obstinate in their belief of the most false claims of secular of theories - even when confronted by the most irrefutable of evidence?

The entire Dan Brown 'Da Vinci' is based upon lies and deliberately forged documents - yet millions still believe:

1) Brown wrongly says that the ancient Olympics were held ‘as a tribute to the magic of Venus’ (p. 61). In fact, they were held to honour Zeus, the ‘king’ of the Greek gods, and in any case, Venus was a Roman goddess not a Greek one.

2) The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in 1947 (not ‘the 1950s’, p. 317), do not contain any ‘gospels’ (p. 331), as they pre-date the New Testament.

3) The Priory of Sion (Brown’s alleged protector of the ‘secret’ about Jesus) was not founded in Jerusalem in 1099 by King Godefroi de Bouillon (p. 217). It was ‘invented’ and registered (to comply with French law) on 7 May 1956 by two Frenchmen, convicted con-man Pièrre Plantard and André Bonhomme. Thus most of Brown’s plot involving Leonardo is based on a proven fraud.

4) Brown describes the Holy of Holies as a subterranean vault under Solo*mon’s Temple in Jerusalem (p. 566). This is false. It was a small room within the Temple, where the High Priest offered sacrifices (1 Kings 7:50).

5) Brown says that the Shekinah was a female deity, equal to Jehovah, residing in this Temple (pp. 411, 584). This is false. Shekinah is a Hebrew word that refers to the visible manifestation of God’s glory.

6) Brown says that the word ‘Jehovah’ is a combination of ‘the masculine Jah with the feminine pre-Hebraic name for Eve, Havah’, which gives the Jewish YHWH (p. 411). This is false. Jehovah is the anglicized form of the Hebrew YHWH, God’s personal name which He revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14–15).

It is the same with those who continue to wave aloft the con-woman Lynn Picknett's book - " TheTurin Shroud: In Whose Image?" as 'evidence that Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Turin Shroud - despite irrefutable evidence that such claims are rubbish, not least that the Shroud was around over 100 years before Da Vinci was even born.

These anti-Christian con artistes are making a lot of money and converting thousands to their cause, but anyone who really wants to know the truth can find it easily with a little bit of research.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Tell me L.T do you see faith in the same light as indoctrination about other issues like homosexuality and Lesbianism are evil, or black people are inherently less intelligent than white people.

Could it be that we have been brainwashed by successive generations to believe certain values or precepts and religion is one of them.

Perhaps as we become more enlightened religion or more specifically organised religion will come to be seen for what it actually is....???

I like the way we now look forward and believe in things until the evidence suggests otherwise rather than believe things from long ago and close the book.

[Nedusa]

Good post as usual Nedusa.

I actually agree with a lot (not all) of the New World Order' theories and could even add to them from my own personal experience and knowledge (but won't as I am fed up of (futilely) arguing and 'flogging dead horses) but it is the Jesus/Mithros/Horus claims that I do not accept - especially when the evidence that such claims are wrong is overwhelming.

Why is it that the very same people who constantly criticise people of faith (especially Christians) for believing in 'fairy tales' or 'myths' are yet the most perversely obstinate in their belief of the most false claims of secular of theories - even when confronted by the most irrefutable of evidence?

The entire Dan Brown 'Da Vinci' is based upon lies and deliberately forged documents - yet millions still believe:

1) Brown wrongly says that the ancient Olympics were held ‘as a tribute to the magic of Venus’ (p. 61). In fact, they were held to honour Zeus, the ‘king’ of the Greek gods, and in any case, Venus was a Roman goddess not a Greek one.

2) The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in 1947 (not ‘the 1950s’, p. 317), do not contain any ‘gospels’ (p. 331), as they pre-date the New Testament.

3) The Priory of Sion (Brown’s alleged protector of the ‘secret’ about Jesus) was not founded in Jerusalem in 1099 by King Godefroi de Bouillon (p. 217). It was ‘invented’ and registered (to comply with French law) on 7 May 1956 by two Frenchmen, convicted con-man Pièrre Plantard and André Bonhomme. Thus most of Brown’s plot involving Leonardo is based on a proven fraud.

4) Brown describes the Holy of Holies as a subterranean vault under Solo*mon’s Temple in Jerusalem (p. 566). This is false. It was a small room within the Temple, where the High Priest offered sacrifices (1 Kings 7:50).

5) Brown says that the Shekinah was a female deity, equal to Jehovah, residing in this Temple (pp. 411, 584). This is false. Shekinah is a Hebrew word that refers to the visible manifestation of God’s glory.

6) Brown says that the word ‘Jehovah’ is a combination of ‘the masculine Jah with the feminine pre-Hebraic name for Eve, Havah’, which gives the Jewish YHWH (p. 411). This is false. Jehovah is the anglicized form of the Hebrew YHWH, God’s personal name which He revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14–15).

It is the same with those who continue to wave aloft the con-woman Lynn Picknett's book - " TheTurin Shroud: In Whose Image?" as 'evidence that Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Turin Shroud - despite irrefutable evidence that such claims are rubbish, not least that the Shroud was around over 100 years before Da Vinci was even born.

These anti-Christian con artistes are making a lot of money and converting thousands to their cause, but anyone who really wants to know the truth can find it easily with a little bit of research.

Great post Kirk..............thanks for the info I didn't know just how far Mr Brown had gone to try and create a veneer of "truth" about the claims in his book.

Clever in a way to promote your work of complete fiction with snippets of plausibility and a vignette of "undiscovered fact" thrown in to ensure people will buy it and "learn the truth"...............

[kirklancaster]

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion.......... :laugh:

And I APPLAUD you for this Niamh - sincerely. You think 'OUTSIDE THE BOX' and carry out further research which is exactly HOW I came to be a Christian.

I have stated many times that I am not an orthodox Christian, I believe in Christ not 'The Church', because 'The Church' is run by corrupt MAN and I actually agree with you and Kizzy and others about 'Control' and 'Money' etc.

I too examined Scientology and Islam and Rosicrucian-ism and even Von Daniken's ET God theories among other philosophies, Religions and Theories.

I actually believed in some of it all and still do but NOT ALL.

I like to think that I am intelligent and educated, and I know that I base my belief in Christ on research, analysis and a great deal of LOGIC.

I was not 'indoctrinated' into it all or 'brainwashed by parents or schools. I CHOSE to believe in Christ.

[Niamh.]

And I APPLAUD you for this Niamh - sincerely. You think 'OUTSIDE THE BOX' and carry out further research which is exactly HOW I came to be a Christian.

I have stated many times that I am not an orthodox Christian, I believe in Christ not 'The Church', because 'The Church' is run by corrupt MAN and I actually agree with you and Kizzy and others about 'Control' and 'Money' etc.

I too examined Scientology and Islam and Rosicrucian-ism and even Von Daniken's ET God theories among other philosophies, Religions and Theories.

I actually believed in some of it all and still do but NOT ALL.

I like to think that I am intelligent and educated, and I know that I base my belief in Christ on research, analysis and a great deal of LOGIC.

I was not 'indoctrinated' into it all or 'brainwashed by parents or schools. I CHOSE to believe in Christ.

Well good for you and that's fine but the reason I do have such strong opinions on this subject is because I was indoctrinated. Ireland was almost completely run by the church up to not that long ago, that is changing but even still 90% of "state" run schools, schools that I as a tax payer am funding are Catholic schools and people of no faith are last on the list of priority when trying to enroll, this forces people to keep pretending they're Catholic just so their kids aren't made to feel like outcasts or have to be driven miles outside their own towns to enroll in the limited non denominational schools

[kirklancaster]

Sorry Niamh, but I actually posted this before I read your other post. I am sorry that this is, and as been the case in Ireland with 'Religious Indoctrination' and I detest such practices.

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo a victim of attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

I do not have a problem with anyone 'discussing these subjects' Niamh, I really don't. What I do have a problem with is the 'way' in which some discuss them and the unspoken accepted 'Law' on here that decrees that it is perfectly legitimate for someone to make unnecessary comments which are insensitive to Christians and can cause offence, but 'punishable' whenever a Christian responds to such comments - even if in the most innocuous of fashion.

I am sorry if the Catholic faith was 'forced upon you' Niamh - that is utterly wrong, and I have a lot of problems with Catholicism, but you have 'found your own way' and I respect your views now.

All that I ask, is that whilst discussing these topics, people respect mine.

I have qualifications in Science and Anatomy and Physiology and History, and I have a great insatiable thirst for knowledge - especially concerning certain branches of Philosophy, and I would be more than willing to discuss in depth with anyone on here just why an averagely intelligent, well read, well educated adult would CHOOSE to believe in GOD and in Jesus as The Christ, but I am afraid it would descend into the usual 'Three Ring Circus' of mockery and ridiculing where I would be outnumbered, ganged up on, and eventually banned, so it is a no no I'm afraid.

[Niamh.]

Sorry Niamh, but I actually posted this before I read your other post. I am sorry that this is, and as been the case in Ireland with 'Religious Indoctrination' and I detest such practices.



I do not have a problem with anyone 'discussing these subjects' Niamh, I really don't. What I do have a problem with is the 'way' in which some discuss them and the unspoken accepted 'Law' on here that decrees that it is perfectly legitimate for someone to make unnecessary comments which are insensitive to Christians and can cause offence, but 'punishable' whenever a Christian responds to such comments - even if in the most innocuous of fashion.

I am sorry if the Catholic faith was 'forced upon you' Niamh - that is utterly wrong, and I have a lot of problems with Catholicism, but you have 'found your own way' and I respect your views now.

All that I ask, is that whilst discussing these topics, people respect mine.

I have qualifications in Science and Anatomy and Physiology and History, and I have a great insatiable thirst for knowledge - especially concerning certain branches of Philosophy, and I would be more than willing to discuss in depth with anyone on here just why an averagely intelligent, well read, well educated adult would CHOOSE to believe in GOD and in Jesus as The Christ, but I am afraid it would descend into the usual 'Three Ring Circus' of mockery and ridiculing where I would be outnumbered, ganged up on, and eventually banned, so it is a no no I'm afraid.

People are simply giving their opinions on religion though Kirk, if they think it's all a big fairytale, that's just their opinion on it which they're perfectly entitled to hold :shrug:

[billy123]

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion.......... :laugh:There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

[user104658]

I just follow the good old fashioned razor on this one really.

If there are 1000 different myths that conflict so that at least 999 of them must be false, then the simplest explanation is that all 1000 are false.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If we had a debate about the Loch Ness monster (just as viable as any faith based belief) I am sure it would go around the same lines.

[Niamh.]

There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

Oh thanks Bob, I'll definitely try and watch that

[Niamh.]

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

I've actually searched loads on this and I can't find Dan Brownes name connected to it anywhere. All I can see when i search is written, directed and produced by Peter Joesph. Also in regards to his name as far as I can see Peter Joseph is his real name, his first and middle name rather than first and surname :shrug:

http://peterjoseph.info/peter-joseph-biography-updated/

[kirklancaster]

If we had a debate about the Loch Ness monster (just as viable as any faith based belief) I am sure it would go around the same lines.

:laugh: This is simply not true LT and you know it. There is overwhelming evidence - a lot of it from secular sources - that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person, that he lived and died on the cross.

Where is there any proof that Nessie ever lived?

[Josy]

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

Dan Brown and Acharya S have nothing at all to do with Zeitgeist The Movie or Addendum? I'm confused where you are getting that info from tbh because it was written, produced, directed and edited by Peter Joseph.

As someone that was baptised, made first confession, communion and was then confirmed as a Roman Catholic I can honestly say that studying certain things, watching documentaries (a long time before Zeitgeist even came about) and basically finding my own information online has certainly opened my eyes a lot and I feel that in a way there is some brain washing goes on in schools, that's why I think it's a great thing that parents can choose whether to send their children to a religious school or opt for a non denominational.

Even though I was brought up as a Catholic though, discussion like this does not bother me one bit, if you feel you can't win then you don't have to take part but let others have their own beliefs, for you to tell another member to stop pushing the Zeitgeist movie, that it was bollocks and then go on to spam your own links of what you believe to be fact was extremely hypocritical IMO.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh: This is simply not true LT and you know it. There is overwhelming evidence - a lot of it from secular sources - that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person, that he lived and died on the cross.

Where is there any proof that Nessie ever lived?

There were hundreds of Jesus's around that time. I am talking about evidence of supernatural powers

[kirklancaster]

Dan Brown and Acharya S have nothing at all to do with Zeitgeist The Movie or Addendum? I'm confused where you are getting that info from tbh because it was written, produced, directed and edited by Peter Joseph.

As someone that was baptised, made first confession, communion and was then confirmed as a Roman Catholic I can honestly say that studying certain things, watching documentaries (a long time before Zeitgeist even came about) and basically finding my own information online has certainly opened my eyes a lot and I feel that in a way there is some brain washing goes on in schools, that's why I think it's a great thing that parents can choose whether to send their children to a religious school or opt for a non denominational.

Even though I was brought up as a Catholic though, discussion like this does not bother me one bit, if you feel you can't win then you don't have to take part but let others have their own beliefs, for you to tell another member to stop pushing the Zeitgeist movie, that it was bollocks and then go on to spam your own links of what you believe to be fact was extremely hypocritical IMO.

I am truly sorry that you feel I am a hypocrite and also that I was misunderstood about telling Ramsay not to keep plugging Zeitgeist, because I like Ramsay and did not want him to later feel foolish when it was revealed that Zeitgeist is built upon fallacy - which it is.

I will not continue to try to explain myself - because it is futile, so I will bow out, but apologise for any unanswered questions asked of me which may be left 'hanging'.

[Josy]

I am truly sorry that you feel I am a hypocrite and also that I was misunderstood about telling Ramsay not to keep plugging Zeitgeist, because I like Ramsay and did not want him to later feel foolish when it was revealed that Zeitgeist is built upon fallacy - which it is.

I will not continue to try to explain myself - because it is futile, so I will bow out, but apologise for any unanswered questions asked of me which may be left 'hanging'.

Please don't twist what I actually posted Kirk, I said I felt your actions ie telling Karl not to plug something he believes then go on to spam the links that you believe in four different posts to be hypocritical.

[user104658]

:( Does this mean that LT will never get his evidence of supernatural powers? I hate eternal cliffhangers! This is worse than "Angel", "The 4400" or "Stargate Universe". Or the new "Dallas". I wanted to know what happpened next but now I NEVER WILL. Unless someone makes a comic book sequel like with Angel but I tried to read that and it was stupid.

Tl;Dr - someone post a youtube of Jesus Magic!

[Kizzy]

Serious question, does anyone who follows a religion claim they can safely say they abide by the teachings of said religion?
If you had no idea that we lived in a Christian country could you tell by how we are governed?

I have yet to meet anyone with religious ideals who exhibits any of the virtues that a chosen faith extols.
Conversely I have met people who admit to not following a religion that are tolerant, fair, gracious, generous and kind.

It is this realisation that led me to my belief that our modern religions are fashioned by cherrypicking ancient texts across the globe, where the powers of many prophets can be used to instill both fear and wonder in those who choose to follow their professed teachings.

Therefore I have chosen to follow the 'little voice' conscience, instinct or gut feeling our own inherent internal rudder rather than a mish mash of contrary rules and provisos.
If this at the end of my days proves to be a big mistake I'll gladly admit I'm wrong until then I see no reason to change.

[kirklancaster]

Please don't twist what I actually posted Kirk, I said I felt your actions ie telling Karl not to plug something he believes then go on to spam the links that you believe in four different posts to be hypocritical.

Josy, as one who knows far better than most what it's like to be misinterpreted or have his posts 'twisted', I will rephrase what I wrote so that it better conveys the meaning which I intended.

I am sorry that you feel I was being a hypocrite in this case.

I try to never post without providing evidence for my contentions in those posts Josy, and it is no different in this case. I elected to rebut Zeitgeist and so pasted a few links out of many which I believe corroborate my claims in my rebuttal with facts and logic.

Ramsay actually did politely ask me what I found or thought was wrong in the video, so I responded and provided the links which is both polite and fair.

If that is hypocritical of me, then it was not my intention and I apologise.

[the truth]

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion.......... :laugh:

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

[Kizzy]

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

Now I know we don't live in a Christian democracy then! :laugh:

[Josy]

Josy, as one who knows far better than most what it's like to be misinterpreted or have his posts 'twisted', I will rephrase what I wrote so that it better conveys the meaning which I intended.

I am sorry that you feel I was being a hypocrite in this case.

I try to never post without providing evidence for my contentions in those posts Josy, and it is no different in this case. I elected to rebut Zeitgeist and so pasted a few links out of many which I believe corroborate my claims in my rebuttal with facts and logic.

Ramsay actually did politely ask me what I found or thought was wrong in the video, so I responded and provided the links which is both polite and fair.

If that is hypocritical of me, then it was not my intention and I apologise.

You had already posted the same links three times before Karl asked you what you found wrong with the movie though Kirk.

Getting back to the topic at hand..

I think now there is so much information freely available to research on the internet etc, people are becoming a lot more aware of things like religion, having their eyes opened to a lot and realising that maybe we shouldn't always just believe what were are told to.

[bots]

Every day, even now we see information published that is uncorroborated. It sits there as information for future generations to reference and make of it what they will. Interspersed with this are corroborated facts validated from proven multiple sources.

Historically, we have no method of reliably identifying corroborated fact. Simpy because an event is recorded on multiple occasions and has some commonality with other recorded events doesn't make them corroborated fact. That is the crux of the problem we are faced with. So much information was passed down from generation to generation that it is impossible to say without a shadow of a doubt that the event now reported actually happened in the form and context that it is being reported in. That's not to say its not possible for an event 2000 years ago to be factually accurate, just by laws of probability, incredibly, incredibly unlikely.

[kirklancaster]

QUOTE JOSY: "You had already posted the same links three times before Karl asked you what you found wrong with the movie though Kirk.[/B]

Not so in actuality Josy - I do not know if you have the technological means to check, but I actually went back into my responses as an afterthought and edited them in order to post the links. If you look back at my posts you will see that Ramsay asked the question at 12:12 AM. and I actually answered him with links at 1.22 am. I then edited the earlier posts to paste in the links at 1,.23 am, 1.23 am, and I think 1.24 am - all AFTER I responded to Ramsay, and hardly giving me time to time to compose individual posts if I was not telling the truth.

"Getting back to the topic at hand..

I think now there is so much information freely available to research on the internet etc, people are becoming a lot more aware of things like religion, having their eyes opened to a lot and realising that maybe we shouldn't always just believe what were are told to."

Exactly my point because this applies as much to anti-Religious articles as it does pro-Religious ones, which is why I responded as I did - that we definitely shouldn't believe everything we are told or what we see or read or watch, without questioning and further research and cross referencing.

I am quite sure that were I to post a lengthy article on 'The Case For Jesus As The Messiah' but unbeknown to me news had broken on the internet that a tomb had been discovered in Jerusalem which contained an intact ossuary complete with bones and an inscription verified as; These are the remains of Yeshua of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James, who was crucified in the reign of Tiberius etc' - then I am quite sure that my post would be rapidly followed by a dozen or more rebuttal responses

I believe that the first link I provided competently debunks the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claim part of the Zeitgeists movie and my use of it is no different to the above in that the intention was to say; "Don't believe everything you read".

[Niamh.]

I am quite sure that were I to post a lengthy article on 'The Case For Jesus As The Messiah' but unbeknown to me news had broken on the internet that a tomb had been discovered in Jerusalem which contained an intact ossuary complete with bones and an inscription verified as; These are the remains of Yeshua of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James, who was crucified in the reign of Tiberius etc' - then I am quite sure that my post would be rapidly followed by a dozen or more rebuttal responses from LT, Kizzy, T.S and others, and the responses would range from polite enlightenment to sneering and mocking .



Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

[the truth]

Now I know we don't live in a Christian democracy then! :laugh:

we live in a so called democracy in which the true words of Christ are often perverted by cheats and liars.....we should never blame Christ we should always blame the cheats and liars

[Niamh.]

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

I'm talking about organised religions which are man made. I don't believe in Christ

[the truth]

Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

[the truth]

I'm talking about organised religions which are man made. I don't believe in Christ

youre talking in generalities about 100s of different religions, belief systems, stories, people, books etc That's a dangerous thing to do imo as theyre all vastly different , Im talking specifically about Christ.

[Niamh.]

whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

[Niamh.]

youre talking in generalities about 100s of different religions, belief systems, stories, people, books etc That's a dangerous thing to do imo as theyre all vastly different , Im talking specifically about Christ.

You may be specifically talking about Christ but I wasn't and you were the one who quoted my post that was specifically about organised religions :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The supernatural stuff was added to get the followers and by getting the numbers you get power and status as being one of the ones in the know

look at any church today with those in the know, everyone trying to be the ministers pal etc

[Kizzy]

we live in a so called democracy in which the true words of Christ are often perverted by cheats and liars.....we should never blame Christ we should always blame the cheats and liars

But what if the cheats and liars are the advocates of the religion, surely that would make you question the moral authority of said religion?
Is it not better to abandon that and follow your own path according to specific teachings.

[the truth]

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.

[the truth]

But what if the cheats and liars are the advocates of the religion, surely that would make you question the moral authority of said religion?
Is it not better to abandon that and follow your own path according to specific teachings.

no. the exact opposite is the case. Christs teachings were fantastic and timeless. the fact some corrupt people will pervert his words his irrelevant to the beauty of his teachings. there will always be evil there will always be cheats and liars perverting messages , playing devils advocate and bearing false witness and twisting peoples words for their own ends. you don't quit your own beliefs simply because of evil, in fact it strengthens your beliefs to stand firm in the face of the lies and adversity. do we quit democracy just because of some corrupt liars, no.

[the truth]

The supernatural stuff was added to get the followers and by getting the numbers you get power and status as being one of the ones in the know

look at any church today with those in the know, everyone trying to be the ministers pal etc

supernatural stuff is the least important part imo, Christ's teachings are the real jewels than enrichen our lives

[Kizzy]

no. the exact opposite is the case. Christs teachings were fantastic and timeless. the fact some corrupt people will pervert his words his irrelevant to the beauty of his teachings. there will always be evil there will always be cheats and liars perverting messages , playing devils advocate and bearing false witness and twisting peoples words for their own ends. you don't quit your own beliefs simply because of evil, in fact it strengthens your beliefs to stand firm in the face of the lies and adversity. do we quit democracy just because of some corrupt liars, no.

I meant according to Jesus specific teachings... you would still effectively be a Christian, just not aligned with those you felt were for whatever reason corrupting the established Christian religions.

[Niamh.]

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.

I never said you did say otherwise, I was replying to something Kirk said about proving that there was such a person called Jesus :shrug:

Also, I don't believe in Christ so the rest of your post means nothing to me tbqh :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

[Niamh.]

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

Oh my apologies, I misunderstood your post

[user104658]

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.
I can't speak for Niamh, but assuming that Jesus as a man did exist, claiming to be the son of a supernatural deity in order to gain a following of cultists is reason enough for me to want to tear someone down...

As it happens, I personally don't believe that the literal Jesus of the Bible ever existed at all. I'm open to the idea that the character was loosely based on a real individual, but the truth of that individual's life would be so far removed from the biblical stories as to make them as good as fiction for all intents and purposes.

With THAT in mind, I no more want to "tear down" Jesus than I want to "tear down" Harry Potter. I just reserve the right to point out that believing in wizards, dragons and house elves is somewhat questionable.

[the truth]

I never said you did say otherwise, I was replying to something Kirk said about proving that there was such a person called Jesus :shrug:

Also, I don't believe in Christ so the rest of your post means nothing to me tbqh :laugh:

you were responding to me and my quote?

[kirklancaster]

I meant according to Jesus specific teachings... you would still effectively be a Christian, just not aligned with those you felt were for whatever reason corrupting the established Christian religions.

Yes - That is exactly what I am Kizzy. I firmly believe in Jesus Christ, but I steer clear of the 'organized' 'Church' for exactly those reasons.

[kirklancaster]

Oh my apologies, I misunderstood your post

No need to apologise Niamh - I'm actually enjoying talking with you. :blush:

[the truth]

I can't speak for Niamh, but assuming that Jesus as a man did exist, claiming to be the son of a supernatural deity in order to gain a following of cultists is reason enough for me to want to tear someone down...

As it happens, I personally don't believe that the literal Jesus of the Bible ever existed at all. I'm open to the idea that the character was loosely based on a real individual, but the truth of that individual's life would be so far removed from the biblical stories as to make them as good as fiction for all intents and purposes.

With THAT in mind, I no more want to "tear down" Jesus than I want to "tear down" Harry Potter. I just reserve the right to point out that believing in wizards, dragons and house elves is somewhat questionable.

so the actual moral values and wisdom and love and content of his teachings should me ignored and mocked and you see no value in any of them? you see no value in the billions they've raised for the sick and poor..the faith beliefs and values they've helped grow in billions, the missionary work to feed cloth and educate the poor etc etc you see no value in his teachings about forgiveness and redemption ? you see no value in any of this?

[Niamh.]

you were responding to me and my quote?

You originally quoted a post I made that was replying to a post of Kirks on the existence of Jesus

[the truth]

You originally quoted a post I made that was replying to a post of Kirks on the existence of Jesus

no you were quoting me and responding to me, have a look back at previous page

[the truth]

Originally Posted by the truth View Post
whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

[user104658]

so the actual moral values and wisdom and love and content of his teachings should me ignored and mocked and you see no value in any of them? you see no value in the billions they've raised for the sick and poor..the faith beliefs and values they've helped grow in billions, the missionary work to feed cloth and educate the poor etc etc you see no value in his teachings about forgiveness and redemption ? you see no value in any of this?
I see as much value in them as I see in any other fictional morality tale. The fact that they are good, or that they have done some good, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not any of it is literally real. Does that matter? Perhaps not to some people. It does to me. In my opinion, people being so stuck on stories about magical godspawn, fairies and miracles actually stops humanity as a whole reaching any sort of genuine moral enlightenment that might actually make the world better.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3028617/Was-Jesus-buried-wife-son-Chemical-signature-links-James-Ossuary-Jesus-Family-tomb-geologist-claims.html

Geologist claims Jesus was married... and had a SON: Expert says he has proof son of God was buried in 'family tomb' along with wife Mary and his brother


Geologist ran 150 chemical tests on ossuaries and 'Jesus Family tomb'
Claims chemical signature proves James Ossuary was at Jerusalem site
Chalk box bears inscription ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus’
Find suggests Jesus fathered a child and was married


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/07/10/2756E75E00000578-3028617-After_running_150_chemical_tests_an_expert_claims_ to_have_linked-m-23_1428400494241.jpg


*opens window*

[Niamh.]

no you were quoting me and responding to me, have a look back at previous page

I'm talking about the original post of mine that you were quoting that was a response to a post of kirks, yes I replied to you after you replied to me, but you completely changed what I was discussing with Kirk. I don't believe in Christ so you asking why I hate him and his teachings so much is ridiculous, it's like asking why I hate the toothfairy

[user104658]

No need to apologise Niamh - I'm actually enjoying talking with you. :blush:
Kiss her, she's Irish.

[kirklancaster]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3028617/Was-Jesus-buried-wife-son-Chemical-signature-links-James-Ossuary-Jesus-Family-tomb-geologist-claims.html

Geologist claims Jesus was married... and had a SON: Expert says he has proof son of God was buried in 'family tomb' along with wife Mary and his brother


Geologist ran 150 chemical tests on ossuaries and 'Jesus Family tomb'
Claims chemical signature proves James Ossuary was at Jerusalem site
Chalk box bears inscription ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus’
Find suggests Jesus fathered a child and was married


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/07/10/2756E75E00000578-3028617-After_running_150_chemical_tests_an_expert_claims_ to_have_linked-m-23_1428400494241.jpg


*opens window*

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.

[the truth]

I see as much value in them as I see in any other fictional morality tale. The fact that they are good, or that they have done some good, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not any of it is literally real. Does that matter? Perhaps not to some people. It does to me. In my opinion, people being so stuck on stories about magical godspawn, fairies and miracles actually stops humanity as a whole reaching any sort of genuine moral enlightenment that might actually make the world better.

how are Christs teachings stopping is doing that? honour thy mother and father, do not bare false witness, hope love and charity, redemption and forgiveness....how exactly is this making the world a worse place and damaging our morality?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.

I did not write the article

but at least its 3 days old and not 2000 years

:fan:

[the truth]

I'm talking about the original post of mine that you were quoting that was a response to a post of kirks, yes I replied to you after you replied to me, but you completely changed what I was discussing with Kirk. I don't believe in Christ so you asking why I hate him and his teachings so much is ridiculous, it's like asking why I hate the toothfairy

No its nothing of the kind. we have vast documentation on Christs teachings and yet you feel his teachings have no value to the human race, why?

[Niamh.]

how are Christs teachings stopping is doing that? honour thy mother and father, do not bare false witness, hope love and charity, redemption and forgiveness....how exactly is this making the world a worse place and damaging our morality?

Do you think people hated their mothers and fathers before Christ showed them the light? :think:

[the truth]

I did not write the article

but at least its 3 days old and not 2000 years

:fan:

oh so it must be true then?

[user104658]

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.
So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window. The find would be debunked by whatever means necessary or, if such proved impossible, the scripture would be poured over until it could be reinterpreted to accommodate the new findings. As has been done for hundreds of years.

[Niamh.]

No its nothing of the kind. we have vast documentation on Christs teachings and yet you feel his teachings have no value to the human race, why?

Again i don't believe in Christ so answering that is impossible

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh so it must be true then?

well its about the Jesus myth so I sincerely doubt it

[Crimson Dynamo]

the stuff jesus was saying is hardly rocket science and was prevalent in chinese and indian culture at that time. I think the Celts and the Picts had kind of worked out most of it before he was born.


http://www.imbas.org/articles/celtic_values.html

[user104658]

how are Christs teachings stopping is doing that? honour thy mother and father, do not bare false witness, hope love and charity, redemption and forgiveness....how exactly is this making the world a worse place and damaging our morality?
They're not. If they're taken as fictional morality tales in their proper context.

They are when people believe in them (and all of the associated supernatural claims that go alongside) and cling so firmly to those beliefs that they can't see anything beyond them.

I'm not even saying that religion hasn't had its place in the past... As a sort of hand-holding morality tool for simple folks who didn't have the understanding to consider morality as an abstract concept and needed it to be dumbed down and humanised with deities and even literal human avatars of those deities. But I like to think - it at least like to HOPE - that we will, as a collective, be ready to move on from that at some point.

[kirklancaster]

So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window. The find would be debunked by whatever means necessary or, if such proved impossible, the scripture would be poured over until it could be reinterpreted to accommodate the new findings. As has been done for hundreds of years.

FFS Why does EVERY atheist on Tibb misinterpret what I am saying? I replied to LT with a very simple: "I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong." So please tell me how you derive from that simple statement; "So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window."?

Especially when I had only just stated to Niamh:

"That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

Which is the the exact opposite of what you're claiming that I am saying T.S.

Also in a recent post, I stated - as an unorthodox Christian - that the evidence that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene is irrefutable, which has no bearing on him being the Messiah at all, but there is not one jot of evidence that Christ had children.

Far from it damaging Christianity, the 'James' ossuary is highly embarrassing to atheists and anti-Christians, because if it is a fake it adds nothing to their argument, but if it is real it proves the existence of Jesus.

Finding the ossuary of James does not prove Jesus did not resurrect, and there is no proof of Jesus's bones being in that tomb nor has any bona fide archaeologist or expert ever claimed or suggested that there ever have been.

[the truth]

Again i don't believe in Christ so answering that is impossible

it is possible you simply choose to denounce his teachings and his values simply because of your own personal baggage.... its of no concern to me as your beliefs are of no relevance to me lmao:joker:

[the truth]

They're not. If they're taken as fictional morality tales in their proper context.

They are when people believe in them (and all of the associated supernatural claims that go alongside) and cling so firmly to those beliefs that they can't see anything beyond them.

I'm not even saying that religion hasn't had its place in the past... As a sort of hand-holding morality tool for simple folks who didn't have the understanding to consider morality as an abstract concept and needed it to be dumbed down and humanised with deities and even literal human avatars of those deities. But I like to think - it at least like to HOPE - that we will, as a collective, be ready to move on from that at some point.

how insulting and patronising oh and plain nasty. we haven't moved on anywhere weve gone backwards the further weve moved away from Christs teachings

[the truth]

FFS Why does EVERY atheist on Tibb misinterpret what I am saying? I replied to LT with a very simple: "I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong." So please tell me how you derive from that simple statement; "So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window."?

Especially when I had only just stated to Niamh:

"That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

Which is the the exact opposite of what you're claiming that I am saying T.S.

Also in a recent post, I stated - as an unorthodox Christian - that the evidence that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene is irrefutable, which has no bearing on him being the Messiah at all, but there is not one jot of evidence that Christ had children.

Far from it damaging Christianity, the 'James' ossuary is highly embarrassing to atheists and anti-Christians, because if it is a fake it adds nothing to their argument, but if it is real it proves the existence of Jesus.

Finding the ossuary of James does not prove Jesus did not resurrect, and there is no proof of Jesus's bones being in that tomb nor has any bona fide archaeologist or expert ever claimed or suggested that there ever have been.

don't waste your breathe the attention seeking anti Christ hatred as we see here is for simple folk who haven't the backbone to commit to a set of good values

[Ammi]

There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

..oh I've seen that documentary, Bob...and what I also found interesting with it was that it mentioned the Panorama programme from years ago..(did you see that..)...and some of the people who were involved in intimidating/threatening the programme makers then have now left the organisation/cult and they mentioned it on there....

[the truth]

Christians don't threaten to kill people when Christ is questioned. that's all part of his pacificist teachings. the anti Christians here fail to even recognise that. perhaps theyd like a world where only politicians are left to write our values, beliefs, laws, morals, even the ten commandments for us.....

[user104658]

Kirk I'm just hypothesising - based on a now quite extensive history of your posts on topics regarding Christianity - that you would find some way or to attempt to debunk or disprove the claim. I don't think there is genuinely any evidence or argument that would sway you from Christianity.

[the truth]

Kirk I'm just hypothesising - based on a now quite extensive history of your posts on topics regarding Christianity - that you would find some way or to attempt to debunk or disprove the claim. I don't think there is genuinely any evidence or argument that would sway you from Christianity.

nor should there be, the value of Christs teachings are eternal and will always hold enormous value and have been of enormous benefit to human civilization.

[user104658]

nor should there be, the value of Christs teachings are eternal and will always hold enormous value and have been of enormous benefit to human civilization.
Quite.

[GypsyGoth]

I hadn't heard about Mithra, that's pretty amazing. If something like that happened today, Christianity would be sued for plagiarism.

[Northern Monkey]

Do not swallow any of this baloney Paul. Follow this link:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-cop...is-pagan-gods/

Or if you believe the Zeitgeist baloney, win $1,000 dollars here:

http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/First link says it's no longer avaliable.Read the others.
I saw Zeitgeist a few years back and remember saying to someone that i thought it was a load crap.

The religion part of it i was unsure about because i don't know enough about all those deities to have a valid opinion.However i was skeptical due the BS trend of the rest of the movie and the 'sun/son' comparison never held any water with me.This sounded like a writer grasping at straws to me.

The NWO theories floating all over Youtube i have never believed,To me it is way too far fetched that a small group of greedy elites could control the majority of the worlds governments.They could not imo have the power or the money to do such a thing.Nobody would accept it and they would have been legitimately exposed a long time ago.

9/11 being an inside job imo....Impossible.Not impossible to physically do but impossible to pull off undetected.No President would be stupid enough to attempt it(not even Bush:laugh:) and would not have the stomach for it or good reason.

I am not religious,For me,The Bible(i've read some of it) is a brilliant,imaginitive piece of writing based on some real people(imo) which although i don't believe most of it,gives amazing insight into the way people thought and lived 2000 or so years ago.
I do believe in Jesus and i do believe that people thought he was the son of god.I believe it is possible he thought he was the son of god.However i don't believe he was as i don't believe in a god.
Their have been so many religions for at least 10,000 years before Christianity and Judaism which died out with the civilisations which created them.
The logical part of me says that todays religions are no different.What makes one of them truth and the rest of them fiction?Specially one as recent as Christianity.Why would god only choose to show himself 2000+ years ago and not millenia before that time?There is so much of the bible that is proven to not be true now,Why should i believe any of it?To me,If some of it is undoubtably fiction then why should any of it be true?

I think religions evolved just as everything else does,I Think this evolution is what makes todays religions what they are(or were 2000 years back) and they would not exist without there predecessors.

I also cannot say for certain that i am right because in the end,I don't know and i don't believe that anybody does.Some people just think they do,Religious and non religious people.
I respect anybodies beliefs even if i don't believe them myself as long as they don't harm others.However it would take an act of god or Jesus to perform a miracle in front of me to make me believe he was who the bible claims him to be.

[Kizzy]

First link says it's no longer avaliable.Read the others.
I saw Zeitgeist a few years back and remember saying to someone that i thought it was a load crap.

The religion part of it i was unsure about because i don't know enough about all those deities to have a valid opinion.However i was skeptical due the BS trend of the rest of the movie and the 'sun/son' comparison never held any water with me.This sounded like a writer grasping at straws to me.

The NWO theories floating all over Youtube i have never believed,To me it is way too far fetched that a small group of greedy elites could control the majority of the worlds governments.They could not imo have the power or the money to do such a thing.Nobody would accept it and they would have been legitimately exposed a long time ago.

9/11 being an inside job imo....Impossible.Not impossible to physically do but impossible to pull off undetected.No President would be stupid enough to attempt it(not even Bush:laugh:) and would not have the stomach for it or good reason.

I am not religious,For me,The Bible(i've read some of it) is a brilliant,imaginitive piece of writing based on some real people(imo) which although i don't believe most of it,gives amazing insight into the way people thought and lived 2000 or so years ago.
I do believe in Jesus and i do believe that people thought he was the son of god.I believe it is possible he thought he was the son of god.However i don't believe he was as i don't believe in a god.
Their have been so many religions for at least 10,000 years before Christianity and Judaism which died out with the civilisations which created them.
The logical part of me says that todays religions are no different.What makes one of them truth and the rest of them fiction?Specially one as recent as Christianity.Why would god only choose to show himself 2000+ years ago and not millenia before that time?There is so much of the bible that is proven to not be true now,Why should i believe any of it?To me,If some of it is undoubtably fiction then why should any of it be true?

I think religions evolved just as everything else does,I Think this evolution is what makes todays religions what they are(or were 2000 years back) and they would not exist without there predecessors.

I also cannot say for certain that i am right because in the end,I don't know and i don't believe that anybody does.Some people just think they do,Religious and non religious people.
I respect anybodies beliefs even if i don't believe them myself as long as they don't harm others.However it would take an act of god or Jesus to perform a miracle in front of me to make me believe he was who the bible claims him to be.

An it harm none....Oh, that's a different story :)

[Niamh.]

it is possible you simply choose to denounce his teachings and his values simply because of your own personal baggage.... its of no concern to me as your beliefs are of no relevance to me lmao:joker:


I don't "denounce his teachings" I don't believe he exists :laugh:

[billy123]

..oh I've seen that documentary, Bob...and what I also found interesting with it was that it mentioned the Panorama programme from years ago..(did you see that..)...and some of the people who were involved in intimidating/threatening the programme makers then have now left the organisation/cult and they mentioned it on there....Yes the Panorama investigation was really good seeing John Sweeney finally lose his temper with them was TV gold. They really are a creepy cult.
The way they flooded the IRS with lawsuits and then offered to make them go away if they were declared a religion and tax exempt was nothing short of extortion its amazing the Americans were weak enough to cave in to them.

hxqR5NPhtLI

[Z]

I believe our modern religions are nothing more than a Chinese whisper from ancient civilisations.

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

:fist: Z this kind of post can generate a Kirk 1000 word essay post and its nearly the weekend


I can hear him typing now on his zx spectrum:worry:

[kirklancaster]

:fist: Z this kind of post can generate a Kirk 1000 word essay post and its nearly the weekend


I can hear him typing now on his zx spectrum:worry:

:joker::joker::joker:

[the truth]

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

the great floods did happen several times....its been proven, they've trawled out the the dead sea and dug out loads of boats dating back 1000s of years including the sea of gallillee boat....the moses story where he split the sea is also an area where the rocks in the middle of the river created the illusion of him parting the seas.....these things did happen though whether all animals were on board or or some animals on board noahs ark who knows...whether there were actual supernatural miracles is open to interpretation...these are literal and symbolic ways of interpreting most things in the Bible....either way you choose to believe or disbelieve it...I believe all these stories have inherent value. stories are not measurements in scientific terms, stories are an amalgamation of incidents events, people, personalities, bravery cowardice, luck , morals etc etc none of these can be measured in purely scientific terms. science and religion do not always have to be in direct conflict, the majority of great scientists were in fact religious themselves.. frankly theyre totally different subjects and the 2 can co exist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the great floods did happen several times....its been proven, they've trawled out the the dead sea and dug out loads of boats dating back 1000s of years including the sea of gallillee boat....the moses story where he split the sea is also an area where the rocks in the middle of the river created the illusion of him parting the seas.....these things did happen though whether all animals were on board or or some animals on board noahs ark who knows...whether there were actual supernatural miracles is open to interpretation...these are literal and symbolic ways of interpreting most things in the Bible....either way you choose to believe or disbelieve it...I believe all these stories have inherent value. stories are not measurements in scientific terms, stories are an amalgamation of incidents events, people, personalities, bravery cowardice, luck , morals etc etc none of these can be measured in purely scientific terms. science and religion do not always have to be in direct conflict, the majority of great scientists were in fact religious themselves.. frankly theyre totally different subjects and the 2 can co exist.


well lets just forget about them and move on. We should be concentrating on teaching ALL children at school

All Gods are fake
Supernatural things are not real
Ghosts are made up
Mediums are fake
No one can see into the future

For the sake of the future

[Livia]

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

No, you're right Zee, Noah didn't take two of each kind of animal onto the ark. According to the Bible, he took two of each unclean animal, and seven of each of all the others.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, you're right Zee, Noah didn't take two of each kind of animal onto the ark. According to the Bible, he took two of each unclean animal, and seven of each of all the others.


what is an unclean animal?

that old bastard made them all and now he is saying some are not clean?

[Livia]

what is an unclean animal?

that old bastard made them all and now he is saying some are not clean?

Pigs, camels... You're a bit of a filthy animal Trumpet, but I believe there can't possibly be two of you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Pigs, camels... You're a bit of a filthy animal Trumpet, but I believe there can't possibly be two of you.


smallest boy LT is coming on a treat

[Livia]

smallest boy LT is coming on a treat

LOL... learning at the feet of the master.

[kirklancaster]

Pigs, camels... You're a bit of a filthy animal Trumpet, but I believe there can't possibly be two of you.

:joker::joker::joker::joker: There is NO answer to that - Even from the Trumpet.

[Kizzy]

Poor old pigling bland :(

[Headie]

http://media.giphy.com/media/ibNNZZXkrr31u/giphy.gif

[Northern Monkey]

The Noah story is'nt just from the bible.Similar things have been written before.The Sumerians had a similar flood story.There are a few theories.There apparently was a flood in around 2900BC.More than likely a regional one though around Mesapotamia not an all life on earth destroying super flood.

[waterhog]

i think what ever storys are going round as long as good can come from it or people get strength its - and if i get struck down i will no god does not want no more poetry.

[Kizzy]

kUX6IE623cY

[kirklancaster]

kUX6IE623cY

:conf::shrug:

Having watched and listened to this twice now Kizzy, I have a couple of questions - well, Four to be exact:

A) Why did you post this on this thread?

B) What is this very long video actually saying?

C) What does it all mean?

D) What do YOU personally think it means?

[user104658]

:conf::shrug:

Having watched and listened to this twice now Kizzy, I have a couple of questions - well, Four to be exact:

A) Why did you post this on this thread?

B) What is this very long video actually saying?

C) What does it all mean?

D) What do YOU personally think it means?


I'm pretty sure that's only two questions...