male suicide on bbc earlier

[the truth]

Thank goodness its finally getting more mainstream coverage

the BIGGEST killer of men under 50 in this country,suicide

horrific

5000 male suicides a year in men and the highest figures ever
24% of men between 24 and 35 who die, kill themselves

why why why

virtually no money being invested in this by the government or charities?

the endless simple suggestion is men should talk more
by who to? who would listen? with no charities and no money invested in it?
add the macho culture , plus the fact our culture lends itself to protecting women and leaving men fight go it alone

the list of problems in most cases were similar....recent break ups, financial problems, health problems, divorces and loss of children, marital home

the peak age is 44...600 men killed themselves at that age in 1 particular year

where do men go?

78% of suicides are by men compared to women and this has grown a lot....yet womens health , mental health and support bases way outnumber mens it doesn't make sense....its totally out of proportion and these very limited resources should be spread more fairly...there is a huge gap like this across the world....yet no government has ever talked about it?

time to get serious...

charities supporting women outnumber mens by 50 to 1...crazy...womens health spending outnumbers men by 4 to 1..men die much younger all over the world and that gap is growing to....even womens cancer gets billions more from the government and charities....yet more get more cancer testosterone produces more cancer....that's not fair or right. it may seem churlish to cmpare one genders cancer rates to another but we are all paying into the same pot and men are not getting their fair share compared to women. funny how the so called politically correct who demand equality don't demand equality for men to? hypocrites. they just want it all their own way.

furthermore it has to be discussed it has to get debated in parliament....I don't believe for a second its just mens failure to communicate, its who can they talk to....

but they've all got to MAN UP, TOUGHEN UP, GROW A PAIR OF BALLS, ETC
men work longer harder and have far less spending power than women
then are at risk of losing their homes their kids their families at any moment at the whim of their partners...and when it happens they have no support

ask yourself regardless of gender....if you worked 40 years to the age of 58 with 3 teenage kids and your family home....when suddenly your wife says get out....next step....new man moves in, next step the kids are poisoned against you, next step your living on your 78 year old mothers couch , oh and you still have to give your ex half your income...fathers rights have always been way behind womens, always has been even 100 years ago when men allegedly had so many advantages, what a joke. they had nothing of the kind.

how would that affect your health well being self esteem?

youre alone fighting all this alone....your wife has support from all over the place

before the endless feminists fake false indignation or offence...society is out of balance....men worry about paying the bills , working hard, protecting their families, building their homes....when they lose all that they lose heir reason to exist. we need a society that recognises that and acts to prevent this ongoing tragedy

[the truth]

08457909090 samaritans
08000 684141 suicide hotline
campaign against misery 0800 585858
lifeline ireland 08080 8088000
wales 0800132737
0800838587 Scotland
03001115065

[Kizzy]

It's horrific and I'm so pleased that there's more and more recognition it's a huge problem.

[empire]

we live in a world society that men have to suppress their emotions, we live on fake power of pride, like being perfect and rich with lots of money, if we lose that we lose are friends and girlfriends or wives, if your partner cheats on you, you can't show your emotions on the outside, schools have let us down, the courts are far to one sided, with paying more child maintenance, but you can't see your kid in a number of days,if your a aging male celebrity who tapped a ladies shoulder, over forty years ago,your in court with another 15 women coming over to chance their arm, your at pressure point to end your life, like what john leslie and freddie starr had said, in japan the male rate is now far higher to end your life, than ever. feminism has to take its share of the blame because it did not create a balanced society, but created a hate monger bogeyman world,

[the truth]

we live in a world society that men have to suppress their emotions, we live on fake power of pride, like being perfect and rich with lots of money, if we lose that we lose are friends and girlfriends or wives, if your partner cheats on you, you can't show your emotions on the outside, schools have let us down, the courts are far to one sided, with paying more child maintenance, but you can't see your kid in a number of days,if your a aging male celebrity who tapped a ladies shoulder, over forty years ago,your in court with another 15 women coming over to chance their arm, your at pressure point to end your life, like what john leslie and freddie starr had said, in japan the male rate is now far higher to end your life, than ever. feminism has to take its share of the blame because it did not create a balanced society, but created a hate monger bogeyman world,

true but no one in the mainstream is tackling this elephant in the room, not even nigel farage

the laws on false accusations MUST BE tightened massively. its totally out of balance even many women can see that too. of course not many feminists.
the feminists even complained when women had to retire the same age as men? it should be a few years later as they live that much longer. john leslie was found INNOCENT but never worked in tv again...meanwhile Ulrika who wrote the lie in her book sold 1000s more and made a million from it
she lies shes rewarded, he doesn't hes innocent yet he is destroyed

women can make it up any time they like just to destroy anyone...they are anonymous the man is named and shamed even when hes 100% innocent...but of course once we talk about it the feminists change the subject and start talking about the oppression of women in iran etc irrelevant. this is here in our country and the culture and laws are utterly biased towards women and do not support men in any way shape or form and ANY man who speaks up is A MALE CHAUVANIST SEXIST PIG?

meanwhile ive watched tv shows with women laughing about women who killed their partners....hilarious? whereas men get sacked for a harmless joke about a female lineswoman knowing the offside law? its disgusting and its GOT TO FCKING CHANGE

[arista]

we live in a world society that men have to suppress their emotions, we live on fake power of pride, like being perfect and rich with lots of money, if we lose that we lose are friends and girlfriends or wives, if your partner cheats on you, you can't show your emotions on the outside, schools have let us down, the courts are far to one sided, with paying more child maintenance, but you can't see your kid in a number of days,if your a aging male celebrity who tapped a ladies shoulder, over forty years ago,your in court with another 15 women coming over to chance their arm, your at pressure point to end your life, like what john leslie and freddie starr had said, in japan the male rate is now far higher to end your life, than ever. feminism has to take its share of the blame because it did not create a balanced society, but created a hate monger bogeyman world,



Yes sadly true empire

[Nedusa]

I think most men are driven to suicide by women.

From wives or ex wives to ex partners , mother in laws, nasty sisters or uncaring delinquent daughters.

But mostly the way the law is so stacked in favour of the mother with no regard for the fathers rights especially with regard to the children. This I think is one of the main factors certainly in older men for taking that downward spiral which can lead to suicide.

Men are seen as tougher than women but the reality is that women are a far tougher species mentally than men.

[rubymoo]

There's a film/documentary called The Bridge, it's about suicide on the Golden Gate Bridge, my life has been touched by suicide, so for me there's always been a wondering about suicide, it's very sad as suicide is the last resort and there is an element of control in suicide, so maybe people who commit suicide are using that last bit of control they have to take their lives.

The Bridge is thought provoking but very sad.

[Kizzy]

I think most men are driven to suicide by women.

From wives or ex wives to ex partners , mother in laws, nasty sisters or uncaring delinquent daughters.

But mostly the way the law is so stacked in favour of the mother with no regard for the fathers rights especially with regard to the children. This I think is one of the main factors certainly in older men for taking that downward spiral which can lead to suicide.

Men are seen as tougher than women but the reality is that women are a far tougher species mentally than men.

I don't believe that at all, you can't blame any one sex for how another feels.
Depression that leads to suicide will have 1001 different combinations for each individual, yes their relationships with the women in their lives may have a factor in some but by no means most.
I believe it's down to conditioning, if you are a naturally resilient and strong willed individual then you will be better place to deal with whatever life throws at you. If you are on the other hand fatalistic then by the rules of existentialism you are at a serious disadvantage.

[Vanessa]

Life is hard. We all have our up and downs, but i think men are less likey to talk about their feelings. :(

[Mitchell]

It's horrible, I'm someone who suffers from mental health issues, I know what an awful position it is, there needs to be so much more help out there, it mortifies me when I see people who weren't as lucky as me to continue fighting mental illness rather than being beaten by it.

[Niamh.]

I don't believe that at all, you can't blame any one sex for how another feels.
Depression that leads to suicide will have 1001 different combinations for each individual, yes their relationships with the women in their lives may have a factor in some but by no means most.
I believe it's down to conditioning, if you are a naturally resilient and strong willed individual then you will be better place to deal with whatever life throws at you. If you are on the other hand fatalistic then by the rules of existentialism you are at a serious disadvantage.

:clap2:

Blaming the opposite sex or "feminazis" as the OP suggests is not helpful.

[Nedusa]

:clap2:

Blaming the opposite sex or "feminazis" as the OP suggests is not helpful.

Er....No...If you took the time to read the OP you would see quite a few of the reasons that may lead men down this road to possible suicide are situations almost always involving women especially mothers and especially where there are children involved.

It is perhaps a little trite to say blaming women is not helpful but through the thoughtless, callous and sometimes downright evil actions of thousands of women , some men can end up on a path to despair.

Especially with the law courts somehow badly out of touch with mens rights as this exacerbates the terrible predicament a lotof men find themselves in.

I'm not proud of the way some of my fellow women treat men especially in divorce scenarios where children are involved.

[Niamh.]

Er....No...If you took the time to read the OP you would see quite a few of the reasons that may lead men down this road to possible suicide are situations almost always involving women especially mothers and especially where there are children involved.

It is perhaps a little trite to say blaming women is not helpful but through the thoughtless, callous and sometimes downright evil actions of thousands of women , some men can end up on a path to despair.

Especially with the law courts somehow badly out of touch with mens rights as this exacerbates the terrible predicament a lotof men find themselves in.

I'm not proud of the way some of my fellow women treat men especially in divorce scenarios where children are involved.

I completely agree that "some" women don't behave well in divorce situations when it comes to their children, I am also aware that "some" men behave equally badly.

We are all individuals, attacking the whole gender isn't helpful imo. I completely agree that laws concerning parental rights need updating to come in line with changing times and roles that mothers and fathers play in their childrens lives. That's not "womens" faults, that's governments faults for ignoring fathers rights groups and not dealing with this situation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Life is hard. We all have our up and downs, but i think men are less likey to talk about their feelings. :(

less likely?

mostly not at all

[the truth]

I don't believe that at all, you can't blame any one sex for how another feels.
Depression that leads to suicide will have 1001 different combinations for each individual, yes their relationships with the women in their lives may have a factor in some but by no means most.
I believe it's down to conditioning, if you are a naturally resilient and strong willed individual then you will be better place to deal with whatever life throws at you. If you are on the other hand fatalistic then by the rules of existentialism you are at a serious disadvantage.

kizzy is 100% correct. its the bias in favour of women in this country that is ultimately destroying men...ask yourself if you could live happily in your 50s losing everything you love and all that you've worked for and stood for...after losing your children, your home your wife your life savings and in many cases your reputation too? this country is disgustingly sexist against all men.

[the truth]

less likely?

mostly not at all

because they have NO ONE to talk to....there is no support structure barely any charities d women are programmed frankly not to listen or care a damn what men say...theyre like an army of brainwashed feminists who simply want to take everything and give nothing back.

almost every friend I have has been screwed over by a women either financially emotionally or in several cases having their children taken away and b;locked from seeing them...one particular friend married for a year...he bought a 250,000 house spent 50,000 in a year, then she was pregnant.....when the baby reached 1, the wife changed the locks threw all his stuff in the trash he returns home and the police are called....

before anyone even suggests it hes the nicest most harmless bloke ever....shes having an affair....a few weeks later the lover moves in.....
ok so my mate is then on his mothers couch still paying the mortgage, the car loan, the heating bills, towards the baby etc

she then takes an injunction out to stop him seeing the baby because he has bad eyesight? he spent 5000 clearing up that nonsense and now after a few years finally he gets the boy at weekends

this happens all day every day


the lies of feminism have trained women to believe theve all been raped and pillaged and exploited by all men who are all evil potential rapists..believing this utter nonsense black and white doctrine of male hate bigotry is it any surprise we see women as self centred ruthless and frankly frightening as they now are in this country.

[the truth]

I completely agree that "some" women don't behave well in divorce situations when it comes to their children, I am also aware that "some" men behave equally badly.

We are all individuals, attacking the whole gender isn't helpful imo. I completely agree that laws concerning parental rights need updating to come in line with changing times and roles that mothers and fathers play in their childrens lives. That's not "womens" faults, that's governments faults for ignoring fathers rights groups and not dealing with this situation.

the the law and the culture is biased in favour of women over men , mothers over fathers, then the whole system falls apart....the las HAS GOT TO BE IMPARTIAL...there should be NO BIAS WHATSOEVER TOWARDS mothers yet there is? in the end fathers suffer but kids suffer even worse....theyre young impressionable and powerless to change the course of events

[empire]

its funny that here in the uk, a woman was given only 2 years jail for having sex with an eight year old boy, in the usa, a 23 year old woman lured 3 boys on facebook, their age of the three boys was 10 to 12, for sex, she claimed that she was 15, but she lied to them. but she will get off scot free, we see double standards, in the courts, and in the west,

[the truth]

its funny that here in the uk, a woman was given only 2 years jail for having sex with an eight year old boy, in the usa, a 23 year old woman lured 3 boys on facebook, their age of the three boys was 10 to 12, for sex, she claimed that she was 15, but she lied to them. but she will get off scot free, we see double standards, in the courts, and in the west,

these things are simply never ever discussed in this country....male suicide has never even been brought up on our so called most popular political show, question time...where all the pro feminist garbage is trotted out every week

[Niamh.]

the the law and the culture is biased in favour of women over men , mothers over fathers, then the whole system falls apart....the las HAS GOT TO BE IMPARTIAL...there should be NO BIAS WHATSOEVER TOWARDS mothers yet there is? in the end fathers suffer but kids suffer even worse....theyre young impressionable and powerless to change the course of events


I actually agree with you completely, I'm speaking with experience of Irish law but I'm assuming British law is pretty similar. The laws were made at a time when, for the most part, women didn't work and were pretty much their children's primary care givers. Times have changed, mothers work now much more and fathers are much more hands in with their children but family law has stayed where it was. It's really does need to change

[lostalex]

i think a big portion of that is because of homophobia. also i think financial stress, because men have a lot more pressure to be financially successful and completely support their families.

I think the biggest portion is probably just mental illness, and men's embarrassment to seek medical help, all kinds of medical help, but especially for mental illness. the male ego is a killer.

[Kizzy]

kizzy is 100% correct. its the bias in favour of women in this country that is ultimately destroying men...ask yourself if you could live happily in your 50s losing everything you love and all that you've worked for and stood for...after losing your children, your home your wife your life savings and in many cases your reputation too? this country is disgustingly sexist against all men.

Sorry, that's not what I said.

[the truth]

Sorry, that's not what I said.I didn't say you did????????

[Redway]

It's such a shame. I'm pretty sure males are much more prone to the likes of alcoholism, drug addiction and schizophrenia as well as suicide so clearly stupid terms like 'be a man' drive us into more severe conditions than women.

[the truth]

It's such a shame. I'm pretty sure males are much more prone to the likes of alcoholism, drug addiction and schizophrenia as well as suicide so clearly stupid terms like 'be a man' drive us into more severe conditions than women.

and yet they get no funding no empathy no government support not even any attention for this disaster? as usual in this dumbed down country, the squeaking wheel gets the grease...so these suicidal men get no help at all before jumping off the top of a car park, those crucial funds are syphoned off to pay for womens liposuctions and plastic tits? talk about messed up priorites

[Livia]

and yet they get no funding no empathy no government support not even any attention for this disaster? as usual in this dumbed down country, the squeaking wheel gets the grease...so these suicidal men get no help at all before jumping off the top of a car park, those crucial funds are syphoned off to pay for womens liposuctions and plastic tits? talk about messed up priorites

It's not only women who have cosmetic surgery. You're casting all women as monsters and all men as poor victims when it just isn't true! If that man had approached his doctor he would have got the same attention as a woman would. I have a male friend who's bipolar and who gets exemplary treatment on the NHS despite having a penis. I can guarantee you that all the women on this site that I know have loved a man, have cared for him and worried about him and wanted the best for him. Be that a father, a brother, a husband, a boyfriend... And if you can't see that, honestly... I feel a little sorry for you.

[Redway]

and yet they get no funding no empathy no government support not even any attention for this disaster? as usual in this dumbed down country, the squeaking wheel gets the grease...so these suicidal men get no help at all before jumping off the top of a car park, those crucial funds are syphoned off to pay for womens liposuctions and plastic tits? talk about messed up priorites

Agreeing that there's a huge gender inequality in some health conditions/complications doesn't mean I subscribe to your ridiculous blatantly misogynistic ideologies.

[lostalex]

It's weird that men are complaining that men aren't getting enough resources... yet aren't men holding most of the positions of power?

Weird how some people here seem to be blaming women and minorities for this horrible statistic, even though men have most of the power...

Why aren't the Men in power supporting other men that are vulnerable and need help??? can anyone answer that for me?

It's obvious that it's men themselves and hetero male macho culture that is to blame, yet the same old misogynists keep trying to blame women or gays or some other imaginary ghost for all of these problems.

It;s interesting that some people seem to blame women and other minorities every time there is a struggle in white male culture. as if we are supposed to be supporting THEM, even though they have all the power, we are expected to be their mothers and nurturers?? i don't understand that logic at all.

[Redway]

pls save your false sympathy for the 5000 men who kill themselves in this country every year

And forget about all the women who kill themselves a year as well?

[lostalex]

And forget about all the women who kill themselves a year as well?

I think the number of women killed by heterosexual men definitely balances out the male suicide statistics.

Let's talk about the statistics that women are most likely to be killed in their own home by their own heterosexual male partners. a woman is safer sleeping in a back alley behind a skip than in her own bed with her straight male partner.

[Redway]

I think the number of women killed by heterosexual men definitely balances out the male suicide statistics.

Well that's a completely different topic of discussion, and it doesn't make the issue of male suicide any less serious. I wouldn't go that far

And I don't know why you're tagging on the term "heterosexual" to the woman's male partner as if it isn't already painfully obvious the implied sexuality. And like I said that's a completely different area of discussion. You'd be best starting your own thread about it instead of diverting the thread.

The only statistics relevant here are in relation to male suicide. You're just going off on tangents now, almost as if to put a negative spin of heterosexual males..

[lostalex]

Well that's a completely different topic of discussion, and it doesn't make the issue of male suicide any less serious. I wouldn't go that far

hey, it's just statistics... we are talking about statistics right?

[the truth]

I think the number of women killed by heterosexual men definitely balances out the male suicide statistics.

Let's talk about the statistics that women are most likely to be killed in their own home by their own heterosexual male partners. a woman is safer sleeping in a back alley behind a skip than in her own bed with her straight male partner.

no that is untrue. 5000 women are not killed every year in this country, whereas 5000 men do take their lives.

[the truth]

Well that's a completely different topic of discussion, and it doesn't make the issue of male suicide any less serious. I wouldn't go that far

And I don't know why you're tagging on the term "heterosexual" to the woman's male partner as if it isn't already painfully obvious the implied sexuality. And like I said that's a completely different area of discussion. You'd be best starting your own thread about it instead of diverting the thread.

The only statistics relevant here are in relation to male suicide. You're just going off on tangents now, almost as if to put a negative spin of heterosexual males..

its his usual heterophobia polluting the thread

[the truth]

Womens charities generally speaking are started by and run by women though, why aren't you calling on your fellow men to start up these charities for men instead of blaming women for the lack of them? You seem to be directing your anger at women when in reality it's not womens fault that there isn't enough mens charities or funding

male issues get virtually no coverage in the mainstream or in parliament, its a sick joke. that's why its reached such disastrous stages of a record 5000 suicides a year and growing. women say NOTHING men aren't allowed to say anything or else they'll be called mysoginist pigs and politicians cant even touch the subject or be labelled sexist too and theyre careers ruined....males in the media who have spoken out like Michael buerk lost their jobs. whereas women can say anything they like, whens the last time a woman got sacked for saying sexist things? even though they do all day every day? some shows even mock and laugh about men being murdered by their partners?

but dave Cameron and harriet harmon can find the time to discuss and debate millionare tennis players getting more prize money for playing 3 sets of tennis? pathetic.

the priorities are up the spout and the silence from women speaks volumes, it says they simply don't care about men

[Kizzy]

Do you ever feel you're under too much pressure truth, Have you asked for help coping with things in your life?
I'm not being rude it's just sometimes it seems you need to vent a bit. I'm not downplaying the seriousness of the problem at all, have you had personal experience of feeling unsupported when you need help?

[Kizzy]

Women were given a bum deal there's no getting away from it, I hear you feel the pendulum is swinging too far in the opposite direction and with regard to family courts and maintenance issues you may have a point, however I don't feel that is an issue caused in it's entirety by Women.
As said if there is no support network in your area ask your local Councillor why..or better still start one. The church would be a great place to start, I'm sure they would be able to help with all manor of things.. A venue, advertising, organising speakers from different organisations adult mental health for instance?
It's worth an ask if it's an issue that's really close to your heart.

[the truth]

Women were given a bum deal there's no getting away from it, I hear you feel the pendulum is swinging too far in the opposite direction and with regard to family courts and maintenance issues you may have a point, however I don't feel that is an issue caused in it's entirety by Women.
As said if there is no support network in your area ask your local Councillor why..or better still start one. The church would be a great place to start, I'm sure they would be able to help with all manor of things.. A venue, advertising, organising speakers from different organisations adult mental health for instance?
It's worth an ask if it's an issue that's really close to your heart.

its not just greatly caused by women, its the fact women don't seem to care...not politicians, not councillors, not women in the media...otherwise why do they never even address it, discuss it, debate it, let alone fund it. women need to understand men have feellings too, men love their families and their kids too.....women need to understand they are deliberately and systematically destroying good men in this country

[Vicky.]

its not just greatly caused by women, its the fact women don't seem to care...not politicians, not councillors, not women in the media...otherwise why do they never even address it, discuss it, debate it, let alone fund it. women need to understand men have feellings too, men love their families and their kids too.....women need to understand they are deliberately and systematically destroying good men in this country

Don't think this is fair really..when infact its NOONE seems to care. Not women in the media, not men in the media.

It is an issue that needs addressed, though honestly I didn't know these support groups and stuff were female only, I always assumed men just...didn't go.

Man up is a phrase that needs to **** off tbh. I hate it.

[Kizzy]

Yet as said the number of men in positions of local and national influence greatly outnumber women, therefore it seems unfair to put the blame squarely at their feet.
There can be supportive campaigns for issues affecting both males and females both are equally important and deserve recognition.
Many women do understand, it's unfair to accuse all women the way you do for failings in the system.

[the truth]

Yet as said the number of men in positions of local and national influence greatly outnumber women, therefore it seems unfair to put the blame squarely at their feet.
There can be supportive campaigns for issues affecting both males and females both are equally important and deserve recognition.
Many women do understand, it's unfair to accuse all women the way you do for failings in the system.

men are not allowed to speak up on these issues or else they will be labelled mysoginist sexist pigs and will lose their jobs, careers, homes and their families will soon follow..there is no freedom of speech for men, whereas women can say virtually anything they like....so yes the onus is now on women to do something and show they actually care and actually believe in equality for ALL...(not just women)

where are these women? what are they saying? ive heard nothing from them anywhere....men speak up for womens rights, male mps do help women all the time, women do nothing for men, not in parliament , nor in the civil service, the courts, the councils or the social services....even little things like the way female nurses talk to talk patients is a disgrace, the way medical secretaries talk to men is a disgrace,demanding personal information about their medical problems? theyre not remotely qualified to do so, its ruse simply to get the man to call back, even if its serious.. if it was the other way around theyd be reprimanded and sacked...women are allowed and encouraged to complain about every tiny little thing, to claim compensation where they can...to sue the moment 1 or 2 words they claim t find offensive to gain yet more financial compensation. its absurd.

no women in mainstream have done a damned thing about male suicides in this country. that tells me simply women don't give a damn. therefore the problem is not only greatly caused by women and ruthless mothers preventing fathers from seeing their children or lying about who is the father (another sin that should be a crime, with longer sentences for women who milk money from men who are later found to not be the fathers ) theyre rewarded and encouraged to be this ruthless and conniving.
the problem of male suicides is a male problem hugely created by women who couldn't care less

[hijaxers]

Here's one for ya to ponder - 4 men were out drinking in Bristol at the weekend and all 4 of them were spiked with Rohypnol ! This has not been reported in the news ( imagine if it were women ! ) They think it happened in a pub on Hotwells Rd - although they had left before the full effects of the drug took hold , one of them had other health problems that led to him being hospitalized quite quickly - hence they actually found rohypnol in his blood stream ! if this had been 4 women it would have been headlines - its men so i've heard nothing in the local press at all !
I know this as my friend works with a member of the family it happened to and i feel its just another case of it happened to men so its not worth reporting to the greater community. I find this quite disgusting
Do you all ?

[the truth]

Here's one for ya to ponder - 4 men were out drinking in Bristol at the weekend and all 4 of them were spiked with Rohypnol ! This has not been reported in the news ( imagine if it were women ! ) They think it happened in a pub on Hotwells Rd - although they had left before the full effects of the drug took hold , one of them had other health problems that led to him being hospitalized quite quickly - hence they actually found rohypnol in his blood stream ! if this had been 4 women it would have been headlines - its men so i've heard nothing in the local press at all !
I know this as my friend works with a member of the family it happened to and i feel its just another case of it happened to men so its not worth reporting to the greater community. I find this quite disgusting
Do you all ? yes, its just men after all...women and children first. ill look out for that story though thanks for that

[the truth]

ive never even seen sexism against women in my country? never....where I live women get the right to do everything...in work women wpout filth and speak about their private sex lives...men never EVER do that....women generalize about men all day every day...the women say nonsense like men are idiots men don't understand this or that....men could never do this job...all men are bastards etc etc it just goes on and on........even behind closed doors, ive never ever witnessed any man abuse any woman...though ive seen a lot of women steal from men, shout and verbally abuse men for years and years until in the end in some cases it reduced the men to dirt....that's what ive seen, that's real politics.

[Niamh.]

Jesus, you really hate women :laugh:

[the truth]

Jesus, you really hate women :laugh:

jeez you really hate men :joker:

[hijaxers]

yes, its just men after all...women and children first. ill look out for that story though thanks for that

I will update you on this tomorrow

[Niamh.]

jeez you really hate men :joker:


I haven't said anything bad about men, why would you think that? I have a son, a husband and 3 brothers, I don't hate men at all

[the truth]

I haven't said anything bad about men, why would you think that? I have a son, a husband and 3 brothers, I don't hate men at all

you've said nothing to help them....as a mother id have thought youd be more passionate about fighting male suicide male mortality rates, men losing their children etc doesn't this concern you? I don't hate women despite your pernicious comments.. I do hate the way some behave , how little support they give men , how little they speak up for mens rights too , how unaccountable many are and how there are so many double standards

[Niamh.]

you've said nothing to help them....as a mother id have thought youd be more passionate about fighting male suicide male mortality rates, men losing their children etc doesn't this concern you? I don't hate women despite your pernicious comments.. I do hate the way some behave , how little support they give men , how little they speak up for mens rights too , how unaccountable many are and how there are so many double standards


But you do generalise a lot about women in a very negative way which is the reason I think you hate women. You say I'm not concerned about family law concerning men yet if you scroll back through this thread you'll see you're forgetting that I agreed with you about that. My issue with how you approach the subject is that you seem to be blaming women solely for both this and male suicide rates when surely it's everyone's problem where this is concerned? Especially the countries governments and law makers

[the truth]

But you do generalise a lot about women in a very negative way which is the reason I think you hate women. You say I'm not concerned about family law concerning men yet if you scroll back through this thread you'll see you're forgetting that I agreed with you about that. My issue with how you approach the subject is that you seem to be blaming women solely for both this and male suicide rates when surely it's everyone's problem where this is concerned? Especially the countries governments and law makers

im talking about this country, though America and western sociesties seem to all have similar problems.......men have almost no male school teachers in junior school and none in infants....with no fathers millions have no male role model at all......women are frankly brainwashing kids into this mass feminist doctrine of male hate. its not only factually inaccurate, revisionist biased retelling of history. but its divisive and riddle with hate and lies. do I generalise , well yes, because ive barely met a woman alive who doesn't agree with the feminist movement and no women in power are doing a damn thing for men, especially suicidal men. as ive stated many times, men are not allowed to speak out or they will be wrongly labelled sexist mysoginist pigs..at which point they lose their jobs careers incomes homes and their kids and their families....im afraid this is the fate that awaits more and more men. men aren't allowed to do anything about it and women cant be bothered to do anything about it, so itll get worse and worse

[Niamh.]

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

[the truth]

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

I find it offensive that women have done nothing for men on these issues. ive been sworn at on this thread and called a mysoginstic pig etc im the one who should feel insulted. I am also insulted by your rather fickle attitude to the matter with your lols and inappropriate smileys......I suggest IF you actually cared about it, write to your mps oh and speak to your sons about the issue too

[Ammi]

..you're right, truth..this is a serious issue and something that should be addressed but you're somehow laying blame or cause to be with females..?..and the statistics don't say that..

Prof Louis Appleby, the chair of the National Suicide Prevention Advisory Group in England, said: “Men are more at risk of suicide because they are more likely to drink heavily, use self-harm methods that are more often fatal and are reluctant to seek help.

“Fifteen years ago the rates among men under 35 were brought down sharply by tackling these problems and we need to use this success to address the problems of the new highest risk group, middle-aged men.

...I do agree that with divorce/separation issues, fathers can often get a fairly rough deal but fathers can also leave their children so it's not a general thing..as can mothers leave their children as well..I had a friend/a female who committed suicide not that long ago and it made me aware of how little help and support there is in this country for mental health issues..I think that's something that has just got progressively worse and is in itself at crisis point or becoming so...I think that's where the focus should be with this and speaking to MPs etc about it and trying to raise awareness that this just can't go on...


..yeah, sometimes males get a bad deal in some areas and sometimes females get a bad deal in others, it really isn't a general thing with one sex or another...but really I do understand your frustration and there are so many areas with mental health issues that should be looked at..why not take those frustrations and the points you make and try to have them heard by the people who have the power to look at these problems/use them to raise awareness ....

[Niamh.]

Exactly Ammi. Also, I think it was Vicky who brought up the phrase "man up" , in my experience it's mainly men who use this to other men. It's not just women who put pressure on men, men often put pressure on other men and feel like it's "a womens thing" to talk about how they're feeling and seek help if they're feeling depressed. I don't understand how all the blame for mens mental health issues can be laid solely at womens feet.

And truth, I am extremely close to my son, why do you assume I don't talk to him about how he's feeling? Of course I do

[AnnieK]

ive never even seen sexism against women in my country? never....where I live women get the right to do everything...in work women wpout filth and speak about their private sex lives...men never EVER do that....women generalize about men all day every day...the women say nonsense like men are idiots men don't understand this or that....men could never do this job...all men are bastards etc etc it just goes on and on........even behind closed doors, ive never ever witnessed any man abuse any woman...though ive seen a lot of women steal from men, shout and verbally abuse men for years and years until in the end in some cases it reduced the men to dirt....that's what ive seen, that's real politics.

You've honestly never seen or heard a man abuse a woman? You've never heard a guy talk about his sex life with his mates? I'm sorry I find that very, very hard to believe. In a previous post you have mentioned medical secretaries asking for personal information, in my experience that is not exclusive to men, I have been asked very personal questions by medical secretaries.

As the mother of a son I of course have sympathy with the issues that men face and ensure that he knows he can speak to me about anything at any time but for you to say that it is solely down to women to put this right and men are not listened to, I cannot agree. It is not that long ago that women didn't have a voice nor be allowed to be heard and they went out and fought for (and died for) that right.

I would also be interested to know if you have written to your MP about these issues and if you have had a response from them?

[user104658]

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

I actually think The Truth makes a good illustrative flipped example of the issue with feminism, to be fair. This is more or less my experience of discussing feminist issues with most feminists, and the but I've made bold is pretty much what it usually feels like to try. Or even to observe.

Note that I don't think the truth is actually trying to portray satire, I'm sure he actually believes a lot of what he's saying, but then, so do "forceful feminists"...

[Niamh.]

I actually think The Truth makes a good illustrative flipped example of the issue with feminism, to be fair. This is more or less my experience of discussing feminist issues with most feminists, and the but I've made bold is pretty much what it usually feels like to try. Or even to observe.

Note that I don't think the truth is actually trying to portray satire, I'm sure he actually believes a lot of what he's saying, but then, so do "forceful feminists"...

I guess a "forceful feminist" is just a nice word for a sexist woman though. Feminism in the true sense of the word should just be about equality imo and I strongly disagree that male suicide rates are up because a minority of forceful feminists have taken over the world. That's not helpful to the issue at all imo

[user104658]

I guess though, my sense of self and identity is quite gender-neutral and "I am a man / a male" is a fairly irrelevant statement, to me, when talking about who I am. I'm an individualist and tend to look at almost every issue completely "gender blind". The only responsibility that comes into it is with each individual, for themselves. I am no more responsible for the actions of "some men" than I am for the actions of "some sharks"... And likewise... I have very little time or understanding for women who feel hurt / offended on behalf of "other women" in situations that don't apply to themselves.

Example: historically, women's political freedoms were oppressed by men. I get that. But Are your political freedoms oppressed? Did I personally oppress them? Have I oppressed anyone's political freedoms? With the answers to those being "no", I reserve the right to take absolutely no responsibility, or feel any "guilt" whatsoever, for the actions of other human beings who also happened to have penises.

[Livia]

I guess though, my sense of self and identity is quite gender-neutral and "I am a man / a male" is a fairly irrelevant statement, to me, when talking about who I am. I'm an individualist and tend to look at almost every issue completely "gender blind". The only responsibility that comes into it is with each individual, for themselves. I am no more responsible for the actions of "some men" than I am for the actions of "some sharks"... And likewise... I have very little time or understanding for women who feel hurt / offended on behalf of "other women" in situations that don't apply to themselves.

Example: historically, women's political freedoms were oppressed by men. I get that. But Are your political freedoms oppressed? Did I personally oppress them? Have I oppressed anyone's political freedoms? With the answers to those being "no", I reserve the right to take absolutely no responsibility, or feel any "guilt" whatsoever, for the actions of other human beings who also happened to have penises.

Really , you're just illustrating the point that many women have made here... Some women have a problem with men, most don't and care deeply for at least one and probably more men in their lives. And yet thetruth's posts are clearly anti ALL women.

[Niamh.]

I guess though, my sense of self and identity is quite gender-neutral and "I am a man / a male" is a fairly irrelevant statement, to me, when talking about who I am. I'm an individualist and tend to look at almost every issue completely "gender blind". The only responsibility that comes into it is with each individual, for themselves. I am no more responsible for the actions of "some men" than I am for the actions of "some sharks"... And likewise... I have very little time or understanding for women who feel hurt / offended on behalf of "other women" in situations that don't apply to themselves.

Example: historically, women's political freedoms were oppressed by men. I get that. But Are your political freedoms oppressed? Did I personally oppress them? Have I oppressed anyone's political freedoms? With the answers to those being "no", I reserve the right to take absolutely no responsibility, or feel any "guilt" whatsoever, for the actions of other human beings who also happened to have penises.

I can accept that, I'm totally with you on the the whole individual idea....which is probably why it bothers me when people want to generalise me by my gender, if that makes sense?

[user104658]

I guess a "forceful feminist" is just a nice word for a sexist woman though. Feminism in the true sense of the word should just be about equality imo and I strongly disagree that male suicide rates are up because a minority of forceful feminists have taken over the world. That's not helpful to the issue at all imo
In my experience, unfortunately, the vast majority of active feminism is sexist. Ranging from "a little bit" to "extremely" - but feminist articles (propaganda?) is constantly springing up and being "liked" all over my Facebook and I'm genuinely struggling to think of a recent example that wasn't sexist or didn't make me feel "lumped into a box" with other penis-wielders as described above.

[Niamh.]

In my experience, unfortunately, the vast majority of active feminism is sexist. Ranging from "a little bit" to "extremely" - but feminist articles (propaganda?) is constantly springing up and being "liked" all over my Facebook and I'm genuinely struggling to think of a recent example that wasn't sexist or didn't make me feel "lumped into a box" with other penis-wielders as described above.

How influential are these feminist groups though really? I can honestly say that I haven't come across any groups like this in my everyday life and do you feel that they're responsible for male suicide rates?

[user104658]

Really , you're just illustrating the point that many women have made here... Some women have a problem with men, most don't and care deeply for at least one and probably more men in their lives. And yet thetruth's posts are clearly anti ALL women.
Like I said, I'm not saying I agree with him, just that he makes a good parallel with the majority of feminist literature. He is frequently ridiculous and completely and utterly one sided and seems to have an uncanny ability to make literally ANYTHING into an issue with "evil women!!!" but... that's what makes it a good parallel.

[Livia]

Like I said, I'm not saying I agree with him, just that he makes a good parallel with the majority of feminist literature. He is frequently ridiculous and completely and utterly one sided and seems to have an uncanny ability to make literally ANYTHING into an issue with "evil women!!!" but... that's what makes it a good parallel.

Yes, I do understand your angle. I think feminism started out as one thing and has grown into a monster. I think of myself as a feminist in as much as I want to enjoy equality at work and in other areas, and equality, as we all know, means being equal with men, not somehow getting one over on them, which seems to be the militant feminist agenda.

[Niamh.]

Yes, I do understand your angle. I think feminism started out as one thing and has grown into a monster. I think of myself as a feminist in as much as I want to enjoy equality at work and in other areas, and equality, as we all know, means being equal with men, not somehow getting one over on them, which seems to be the militant feminist agenda.

Absolutely agree :love:

[Kizzy]

'Though the suicide rate for women in England and Wales halved between 1971 and 1998, the same period saw the rates for men almost double. After reaching an all time high at 21.1 per 100,000 in both 1992 and 1998, the number of male suicides did begin to decline gradually and in 2005 a 30 per cent reduction was recorded, which many attributed in part to the Government's National Suicide Prevention Strategy. However, men still remain far more vulnerable to death by suicide than women, accounting for 75 per cent of all suicides in the UK. In 2008 the Office for National Statistics recorded 17.7 suicides per 100,000 in men compared to 5.4 per 100,000 in women.'

I think this shows that social reforms and the pill helped reduce suicide rates for women yet at the same time a suicide rates for men rose. maybe due to the financial pressure of divorce, more equality in the workplace and pay the balance of power shifted, it's not womens fault they were and are subjugated for time.
The fairly recent rise in male suicide rates show something has gone very wrong, but whats the answer, to again denigrate women? No, bolster men and attempt to find a soloution, both sexes have equal responsibility in this.

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/menstats.html

[rubymoo]

I feel the problem is that men don't communicate as freely as women, if a couple have marital problems then the woman is more likely to go to friends/relatives for advice, whereas a man won't even divulge to his friends that there are problems, why this is i don't know.

The presenter in the BBC programme who'd lost his dad to suicide, stated that they were a happy family, there weren't any marital issues, it was only after his passing it was found that he was infact having affairs, the wife loved her husband (the presenters dad) and had no idea the inner struggles he was facing.

Statistically women try to commit suicide more than men, but the method they use often fails (overdose) whereas the methods used by men are often immediately fatal (hanging/shooting/jumping off buildings/lying on train tracks etc) this is the reason that statistically men have a higher suicide rate.

[Vanessa]

I feel the problem is that men don't communicate as freely as women, if a couple have marital problems then the woman is more likely to go to friends/relatives for advice, whereas a man won't even divulge to his friends that there are problems, why this is i don't know.

The presenter in the BBC programme who'd lost his dad to suicide, stated that they were a happy family, there weren't any marital issues, it was only after his passing it was found that he was infact having affairs, the wife loved her husband (the presenters dad) and had no idea the inner struggles he was facing.

Statistically women try to commit suicide more than men, but the method they use often fails (overdose) whereas the methods used by men are often immediately fatal (hanging/shooting/jumping off buildings/lying on train tracks etc) this is the reason that statistically men have a higher suicide rate.

This is true. I used to do that, but now that i talk about how i feel it helps me to be stronger. Men don't talk about their problems.

[user104658]

I feel the problem is that men don't communicate as freely as women, if a couple have marital problems then the woman is more likely to go to friends/relatives for advice, whereas a man won't even divulge to his friends that there are problems, why this is i don't know.

The presenter in the BBC programme who'd lost his dad to suicide, stated that they were a happy family, there weren't any marital issues, it was only after his passing it was found that he was infact having affairs, the wife loved her husband (the presenters dad) and had no idea the inner struggles he was facing.

Statistically women try to commit suicide more than men, but the method they use often fails (overdose) whereas the methods used by men are often immediately fatal (hanging/shooting/jumping off buildings/lying on train tracks etc) this is the reason that statistically men have a higher suicide rate.
Attempted suicides by overdose are often not "true" suicide attempts (although they do often result in death anyway) but are more ambiguous combination of a cry for help and "not really caring" if death is the end result.

If someone is 100% sure and determined to kill themselves then they will almost always succeed on the first attempt.

[Niamh.]

Attempted suicides by overdose are often not "true" suicide attempts (although they do often result in death anyway) but are more ambiguous combination of a cry for help and "not really caring" if death is the end result.

If someone is 100% sure and determined to kill themselves then they will almost always succeed on the first attempt.

I don't know If I agree with that, killing yourself by hanging or slitting your wrists etc sounds terrifying and hard to do to yourself. Taking pills seems like the least scary way to do it

[user104658]

I don't know If I agree with that, killing yourself by hanging or slitting your wrists etc sounds terrifying and hard to do to yourself. Taking pills seems like the least scary way to do it
It's by far the least effective though, people's bodies react differently and a small dose that might kill one person might not harm another. Even more tragically, taking a massive overdose and surviving it can do untold damage to the liver or kidneys so the person can end up alive, but cripplingly unwell, or even dying slowly a few months later. The worst cases are when people take an overdose, wake up in hospital and realise they are glad to be alive, and are then told that the damage that's been caused is going to kill them anyway. Truly horrific, much more terrifying than something like a shotgun in the mouth or jumping off a bridge. But then maybe there's a misunderstanding with how effective it is? I don't know. The Media tends to portray suicide by overdose as the "close call" that people recover from so I tend to assume that people actually misunderstand just how much damage CAN be done.

[Kizzy]

Anyhoo... If anyone is feeling conflicted let's not give them any ideas eh? :/

[Niamh.]

Anyhoo... If anyone is feeling conflicted let's not give them any ideas eh? :/

Yeah, this conversation is getting a little bleak :laugh:

[rubymoo]

Attempted suicides by overdose are often not "true" suicide attempts (although they do often result in death anyway) but are more ambiguous combination of a cry for help and "not really caring" if death is the end result.

If someone is 100% sure and determined to kill themselves then they will almost always succeed on the first attempt.

Mmmm....i'm not sure i agree as my mum committed suicide on her 7th attempt at an overdose, many of my family said it was a cry for help, and i sort of think that may have been true in the earlier attempts, however after her 6th attempt the doctors told her that if she took another overdose it would kill her as she'd damaged her internal organs, with that knowledge she then went on to kill herself.

We also had a family friend, he was a gentle soul, deeply in love with my cousin, however things didn't work out and after years of unrequited love and lack of direction, he decided to lie on the train tracks and that was that, that to me takes a lot of guts and courage, however i suspect he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Then there was a doctor (she was my doctor), who seemed to have a perfect life, 2 small children, husband who loved her, perfect home, and she took her life with an overdose, she lay down in a grassy area, took her prescription pills and placed a green coloured coat over herself, fell asleep and died, she was found 2 weeks after she went missing under her coat.

My point is that the doctor seemed pretty determined to take her life as it was a remote area, and the coat was the same colour as the area she lay on, whereas my mum always did it in the house where she would be found.

Sorry Niamh and Kizzy just read your posts and yes this topic of conversation is bleak, but some of us have to live with the wondering for ever.

[Niamh.]

Mmmm....i'm not sure i agree as my mum committed suicide on her 7th attempt at an overdose, many of my family said it was a cry for help, and i sort of think that may have been true in the earlier attempts, however after her 6th attempt the doctors told her that if she took another overdose it would kill her as she'd damaged her internal organs, with that knowledge she then went on to kill herself.

We also had a family friend, he was a gentle soul, deeply in love with my cousin, however things didn't work out and after years of unrequited love and lack of direction, he decided to lie on the train tracks and that was that, that to me takes a lot of guts and courage, however i suspect he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Then there was a doctor (she was my doctor), who seemed to have a perfect life, 2 small children, husband who loved her, perfect home, and she took her life with an overdose, she lay down in a grassy area, took her prescription pills and placed a green coloured coat over herself, fell asleep and died, she was found 2 weeks after she went missing under her coat.

My point is that the doctor seemed pretty determined to take her life as it was a remote area, and the coat was the same colour as the area she lay on, whereas my mum always did it in the house where she would be found.

Sorry Niamh and Kizzy just read your posts and yes this topic of conversation is bleak, but some of us have to live with the wondering for ever.

I know. I would imagine there's very few people that a suicide hasn't affected in one way or the other at some point in their life. I lost my best friend to suicide when I was 19.

[Vicky.]

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

[Niamh.]

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

:worship:

[rubymoo]

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

I completely agree, the person who takes their life has done it to themselves, they are responsible for their own actions, there may have been factors that attributed for them to make that decision, but imo, there is help out there for everybody to access, and suicide should not be blamed on anyone.

[user104658]

My mum had I think three suicide attempts by overdose, too. None successful, at least not technically, they certainly contributed to the damage to her liver (along with alcohol and a daily list of painkillers, antidepressants and other prescription meds as long as my arm) that eventually killed her. The thing is she had been told repeatedly that the damage was getting worse and worse and was told a year before her death that her liver was damaged and if she didn't improve things it would inevitably be fatal. If a nothing she simply got worse. She talked a lot about wanting to die / being better off dead but she spent a month on her death bed, and certainly at that point did not want to die. Which makes me wonder if her earlier attempts were, at least subconsciously, deliberately uncertain in outcome.

Sorry everyone this thread really is depressing now :/. Then again, the thread title hardly suggests frivolity!

[RichardG]

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

[Niamh.]

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

Good Luck tomorrow Richard :love:

[rubymoo]

My mum had I think three suicide attempts by overdose, too. None successful, at least not technically, they certainly contributed to the damage to her liver (along with alcohol and a daily list of painkillers, antidepressants and other prescription meds as long as my arm) that eventually killed her. The thing is she had been told repeatedly that the damage was getting worse and worse and was told a year before her death that her liver was damaged and if she didn't improve things it would inevitably be fatal. If a nothing she simply got worse. She talked a lot about wanting to die / being better off dead but she spent a month on her death bed, and certainly at that point did not want to die. Which makes me wonder if her earlier attempts were, at least subconsciously, deliberately uncertain in outcome.

Sorry everyone this thread really is depressing now :/. Then again, the thread title hardly suggests frivolity!

This sentence just made me lol:laugh:

I know what you're saying TS, it's like being hellbent on dying then when it's here not wanting to go and regretting past actions.

Sorry about your mum.....

[RichardG]

Good Luck tomorrow Richard :love:

thanks :love:

[rubymoo]

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

Brilliant Richard!

I'm glad you're getting the help you need.

My nephew was struggling with his mental health, he went to see a doctor, and he's also having cbt, he's got counselling sessions booked and he's on anti depressants, he's only 17, but i'm so proud of the fact that he knew he needed help and sought it out.

:wavey:

[user104658]

[/B]

This sentence just made me lol[emoji23]

I know what you're saying TS, it's like being hellbent on dying then when it's here not wanting to go and regretting past actions.

Sorry about your mum.....
And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

[rubymoo]

And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

:hug:

[Niamh.]

And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

I'm sorry to hear that about your mom TS :hug:

[the truth]

This is true. I used to do that, but now that i talk about how i feel it helps me to be stronger. Men don't talk about their problems.

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.

[arista]

Yes a good Report from this Reporter Jack

Of course men bottle it up

Women talk more

I learnt nothing new from this BBC Docu
shown on BBCNewsHD

[user104658]

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation though, truth. The reason women have more people to talk to is because women are in general more willing to talk. The supply exists to meet the demand, in this case. There are fewer services for men seeking therapy or just someone to listen to, because fewer men are requesting or seeking out those services.

There are cultural reasons for this and probably biological reasons, too: while men and women should be equal, let's not pretend that we are the same. Women are more inclined to seek social contact and groups when they are in trouble, men are more inclined to internalise and try (often ineffectively) to deal with things alone.

Im not saying that the same things don't help both, they do, just that taking that first step in seeking it (even just going to a GP, for all sorts of issues, mental and physical) is more common for women than for men and that's why there are more services and spending is higher. I doubt it's deliberate or with any reason beyond that.

[the truth]

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation though, truth. The reason women have more people to talk to is because women are in general more willing to talk. The supply exists to meet the demand, in this case. There are fewer services for men seeking therapy or just someone to listen to, because fewer men are requesting or seeking out those services.

There are cultural reasons for this and probably biological reasons, too: while men and women should be equal, let's not pretend that we are the same. Women are more inclined to seek social contact and groups when they are in trouble, men are more inclined to internalise and try (often ineffectively) to deal with things alone.

Im not saying that the same things don't help both, they do, just that taking that first step in seeking it (even just going to a GP, for all sorts of issues, mental and physical) is more common for women than for men and that's why there are more services and spending is higher. I doubt it's deliberate or with any reason beyond that.

it doesn't justify whatsoever the lack of help for men...also I do not think women are remotely better at listening...another factor is men have less time because on average still they get less time off work, less are taking benefits, more worker longer hours, often in harder more physically demanding jobs...add to that almost no help with mental health far less help with all other issues , also fighting against the system in the family and divorce law courts and its a massive raft of issues that are making mens lives in this country utterly insufferable...they see no way out other than to jump off a bridge...by the way when men do talk they ALWAYS get shouted down as sexist mysoginist pigs due to the reverse sexism in this country...women sentences are tiny compared to mens, even for violent crime , even in some cases murder...they incite violence yet get away with it, why? well it would be cruel to take a mother away from her children wouldn't it? women are more crude and plain rude in in their everyday behaviour in a way men do find offensive but men don't complain because they know it wont be taken seriously...yet a woman complains and all hell breaks loose...even when it turns out to be a pack of lies in rape trials women walk free? why?

this is a war created by the rich....men and women need not fight at all....but the rich have allowed this nonsense one sided feminist lies and propaganda to go on for decades unanswered...why you ask? well theyre too busy selling weapons of mass destruction, rigging stock markets etc leave us little people argue amongst ourselves

[user104658]

I'm not sure I agree with all of what you're saying Truth, I don't think either "average men" or "average women" have it worse / better, just different sides of the same "sort of rubbish" coin.

I do completely agree with the last paragraph, however. The battle of the sexes - alongside the "benefits scum" battle between the working and middle classes - are deliberate distractions constructed by people who have obvious reasons for wanting to keep us all distracted.

You can see this every day, with the latest "twerking scandal" tirade or "shock" set of nude celebrity leaks (and the "rape culture" implications) dominating the headlines on the same days that serious incidents of banking corruption and unscrupulous warmongers profiting from endless death and destruction get buried in the mid pages... And only the mid pages of certain news sources. You won't find it at all in the tabloid trash that people are so quick to lap up.

[Vicky.]

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.

Again though, is this not because fewer men seek help? NHS is there for everyone and if men told their doctors how they were feeling they would surely get referred for therapy or something same as women did right?

The charity thing, again I didn't know charities were gender selective. And haven't been able to find anything to back it up either?

The court thing IS a massive issue that I wish the government would tackle. Its an issue quite close to me too tbh, Gavs been fighting for his other kids since I got with him and is getting nowhere, despite his ex pretty much neglecting them at every turn :S The way the law works though, again cannot just be blamed on women D:

[Vicky.]

by the way when men do talk they ALWAYS get shouted down as sexist mysoginist pigs due to the reverse sexism in this country...

I have yet to see a bloke who opens up about his feelings and woes being labelled a misogynistic pig when the things he is saying are not all about hating on women or seeing women as beneath him?

[Niamh.]

Again though, is this not because fewer men seek help? NHS is there for everyone and if men told their doctors how they were feeling they would surely get referred for therapy or something same as women did right?

The charity thing, again I didn't know charities were gender selective. And haven't been able to find anything to back it up either?

The court thing IS a massive issue that I wish the government would tackle. Its an issue quite close to me too tbh, Gavs been fighting for his other kids since I got with him and is getting nowhere, despite his ex pretty much neglecting them at every turn :S The way the law works though, again cannot just be blamed on women D:

Same with my Gav (although not anymore as my step son is 16 now and has moved in with us of his own accord) Times changed but the Law didn't.

[user104658]

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

[the truth]

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

its the same sexist disastrous biased situation across the whole country...its an absolute disgrace.

[the truth]

I have yet to see a bloke who opens up about his feelings and woes being labelled a misogynistic pig when the things he is saying are not all about hating on women or seeing women as beneath him?

the problem is the exact opposite....women see men as beneath them and see them as fundamentally less moral and lessworthy of their childrens love...the law courts have been perverted the same way....they should be impartial and less biased in favour of women and mothers. feminists especially pedal this victim mentality for women , telling women that all men think women are beneath them, which is a compete and utter lie....it works for the radical feminists though as it gives them a platform and sells their hate filled books

[Niamh.]

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

omg poor kid :(

[the truth]

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

that is simply untrue Richard, but look luck with everything ...I hope it goes well for you

[Ammi]

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

..but that's bad and neglectful parenting though, TS...it's his mum in this specific case but neglectful parenting isn't gender specific either...in my own personal experiences though with child welfare and child protection, I've never found a situation where there was 'no interest' because of no signs of physical abuse/neglect, there has always been interest and there has always been action/investigations and referrals for help with the family...I think if that's the response her partner has got so far then he mustn't let it go because that's just not acceptable....

[the truth]

..but that's bad and neglectful parenting though, TS...it's his mum in this specific case but neglectful parenting isn't gender specific either...in my own personal experiences though with child welfare and child protection, I've never found a situation where there was 'no interest' because of no signs of physical abuse/neglect, there has always been interest and there has always been action/investigations and referrals for help with the family...I think if that's the response her partner has got so far then he mustn't let it go because that's just not acceptable....

that's not the case around here at least not with the people ive known...it goes around in circles and eventually the social workers give up. the trouble is too, when people have 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 kids where are they supposed to live....then you get the people who breed dogs as well.....how on earth can you get all those kids and dogs into a regular 3 bedroom house? why don't these people consider this before endlessly shagging with no rubber

[JoshBB]

It is a huge problem, and one I think is created by toxic masculinity. Men feel that they have to hide any kind of emotion or they will be considered 'not manly' enough. It's horrible and is one example of sexism that men do actually face. As a feminist this is something I really do think needs addressing because any kind of sexism is dreadful to have exist in 2015, whether it be societal or political.

[the truth]

It is a huge problem, and one I think is created by toxic masculinity. Men feel that they have to hide any kind of emotion or they will be considered 'not manly' enough. It's horrible and is one example of sexism that men do actually face. As a feminist this is something I really do think needs addressing because any kind of sexism is dreadful to have exist in 2015, whether it be societal or political.

everyone says that , its become a cliché with little meaning, but its not so simple in reality.....women impose this on men too, women are not conditioned to ask men how they feel , women are conditioned frankly to care about themselves and their children....men working longer hours throughout their lives they work harder more physically demanding riskier jobs too so have less time to deal with their own problems and are no doubt too tired to do so half the time...especially as they have so little support in the courts in the nhs or mental health or with charities compared to the enormous support men get....furthermore society doesn't fund mens health to anything like the same level as womens, it doesn't get anywhere near the same attention and the amount of charities supporting women compared to men is astounding , theres literally 40 to every 1 for men...even when men so speak out they soon get shouted down as being sexist mysoginistic pigs if they lay any blame on a woman, so they don't speak out as their career is all they have left in many cases...so they cant win they do not have the same freedom of speech women have, men risk losing their jobs the moment they speak out....the support for men is simply not there, so even if they did find the time and energy to talk about their problems who are they going to talk to?

[Ammi]

that's not the case around here at least not with the people ive known...it goes around in circles and eventually the social workers give up. the trouble is too, when people have 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 kids where are they supposed to live....then you get the people who breed dogs as well.....how on earth can you get all those kids and dogs into a regular 3 bedroom house? why don't these people consider this before endlessly shagging with no rubber

..no I appreciate that it isn't always the case and the help isn't always readily there, truth..but I think that's the thing with working in a school and having lots of contact with these organisations and if a child/parent/or family need help, not letting go until they get it and get what they need....and I think that's what we have to do, if we feel help isn't there where it should be/for someone we know....don't stop shouting until you're heard, type thing...if it means going to your MP then do that as well...