65 year old to be mother of quads...

[Vicky.]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3035399/Teacher-65-set-oldest-mother-quads-13-children.html

A 65-year-old schoolteacher is set to become the oldest woman ever to give birth to quadruplets.

German Annegret Raunigk, already has 13 children, and her remarkable story will be featured in a TV documentary.

Her latest pregnancy was the result of artificial insemination using both donated sperm and eggs.



D:

17 kids in total.

I think this is wrong on so many levels. Having a baby at her age is wrong. Also why bother with insemination..why not just adopt if you are so set on having a child when you are old enough to be their great grandma :S

[Crimson Dynamo]

who the feck shagged her?

:umm2:

[MB.]

#anyholesagoal

[Mokka]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3035399/Teacher-65-set-oldest-mother-quads-13-children.html


D:

17 kids in total.

I think this is wrong on so many levels. Having a baby at her age is wrong. Also why bother with insemination..why not just adopt if you are so set on having a child when you are old enough to be their great grandma :S

I 1 billion % agree with you Vicky. and why is this even allowed? Are there not regulations and rules regarding insemination anymore?? There used to be :shrug:

[smudgie]

Strewth, she is a selfish beggar.

Her interior design leaves a lot to be desired as well.

[Kizzy]

seeing her at 55 and then now at 65 I don't know how she can say she's feeling up to it she's aged so badly.

[AnnieK]

Nope. ...wrong on many levels.

[Ninastar]

Congradulations Niamh... why didn't you tell us!?

[Livia]

I think it's pretty much her business. No one would blink an eye if she was a man who'd just fathered a child. Furthermore, a 65 year old schoolteacher who clearly adores children is a better bet for me than a sixteen year old without the sense to read the instructions on free contraception.

[Marsh.]

Carrying 4 kids at 65? It's a wonder she's not dropped dead.

[Marsh.]

who the feck shagged her?

:umm2:

#anyholesagoal


Her interior design leaves a lot to be desired as well.

seeing her at 55 and then now at 65 I don't know how she can say she's feeling up to it she's aged so badly.

Congradulations Niamh... why didn't you tell us!?

:laugh2: This thread's brilliant.

[Marsh.]

They might just manage to make their 20s before she dies on them. :(

[Kizzy]

If she adores her children so much why is she putting her ageing body through so much,
a healthy woman in her 20s is at serious risk carrying quads, a woman of 65... madness.

[AnnieK]

I think it's pretty much her business. No one would blink an eye if she was a man who'd just fathered a child. Furthermore, a 65 year old schoolteacher who clearly adores children is a better bet for me than a sixteen year old without the sense to read the instructions on free contraception.

To be fair Livia, I don't think that is right either.

[Niamh.]

who the feck shagged her?

:umm2:

No one, it was artificial insemination. Does that mean she doesn't have a partner I wonder? That's pretty selfish, there's a fair chance she's going to be dead before those kids grow up and what will happen to them then? I'm surprised a clinic would give her the sperm donation at that age

[Niamh.]

To be fair Livia, I don't think that is right either.

Me neither

[Marsh.]

I don't think men have it easier when it comes to response to them having kids in old age. Rod Stewart gets a lot of comments similar about it.

[LukeB]

Has she given birth yet?

When you get old your body starts to get weak and you end up having so many problems, i wonder how she's going to cope with the bump and the birth

[Vanessa]

17 kids is too much! D::dog:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:fist: No more sperm bank donations for me

:worry: my special little sailors could have been involved

[Cherie]

To be fair Livia, I don't think that is right either.

No it's not, but it is far more acceptable, Billy Joel has just announced he is to be a Dad at 65 but no one is complaining about him

[Cherie]

:fist: No more sperm bank donations for me

:worry: my special little sailors could have been involved

:worry:

[Ross.]

:fist: No more sperm bank donations for me

:worry: my special little sailors could have been involved

:joker:

[Niamh.]

No it's not, but it is far more acceptable, Billy Joel has just announced he is to be a Dad at 65 but no one is complaining about him

I hadn't heard about that, that's very selfish also.

[Marsh.]

No it's not, but it is far more acceptable, Billy Joel has just announced he is to be a Dad at 65 but no one is complaining about him

Is there a thread about him? :smug:

If you look on news articles, the comments are pretty much the same about him being so old.

However, I suppose the difference here is that Billy Joel's newborn has a relatively young mum to take care of him.

Not a single parent OAP with an army of other kids. :laugh:

[Livia]

To be fair Livia, I don't think that is right either.

Me neither

I will fight you both...

I'm noticing a marked increase in the number of older men marrying (or living with) younger women and having a second family when they're in their 50s and 60s. Just my perception perhaps.

Anyway, that aside, I still think it's the woman's business and no one else's. There are so many neglected, unloved children in the world I don't know why they don't take priority when it comes to worrying about kids.

[Niamh.]

I will fight you both...

I'm noticing a marked increase in the number of older men marrying (or living with) younger women and having a second family when they're in their 50s and 60s. Just my perception perhaps.

Anyway, that aside, I still think it's the woman's business and no one else's. There are so many neglected, unloved children in the world I don't know why they don't take priority when it comes to worrying about kids.

As someone else pointed out atleast in a case where someone is "starting a second family" with a younger partner (be that male or female) atleast those kids will have one parent who will likely survive long enough to get them to adult hood. I don't know for sure but I assume this woman is raising this child on her own as she used a sperm doner, that is very selfish, who's going to look after the child if she dies or becomes to old to look after it? And also, because she's so old, she's increasing her chances by a huge margin of having a disabled child

[Livia]

As someone else pointed out atleast in a case where someone is "starting a second family" with a younger partner (be that male or female) atleast those kids will have one parent who will likely survive long enough to get them to adult hood. I don't know for sure but I assume this woman is raising this child on her own as she used a sperm doner, that is very selfish, who's going to look after the child if she dies or becomes to old to look after it? And also, because she's so old, she's increasing her chances by a huge margin of having a disabled child

With donated sperm and a donated egg I don't see that's going to enhance the chances of a disabled child. And young people die too. This woman could live to be 100, no one knows how much time they've got. And it seems these kids will have a large, loving, extended family whatever happens. Having an unplanned, unwanted child and raising it on benefits in substandard housing is more selfish in my eyes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No it's not, but it is far more acceptable, Billy Joel has just announced he is to be a Dad at 65 but no one is complaining about him

why not have a go at the woman...


Tell her about it

[Livia]

why not have a go at the woman...


Tell her about it

Groaaaan...

[Cherie]

why not have a go at the woman...


Tell her about it

What should I tell her? :laugh:

[Jake.]

At the end of the day, if she feels like she can care for her children and there's zero evidence to support otherwise then yeah, good luck to her with it.. So many children go unloved and neglected..

[Crimson Dynamo]

What should I tell her? :laugh:

That only the good die young


or old in the case of Billy

[Marsh.]

So many children go unloved and neglected..

I completely agree with this and think people like this lady should take up adoption/fostering. So many children are in great need of it.

Rather than risking the life of 4 newborns with an increased risk of disability/health problems due to both her age and the fact they're quads.

[Livia]

I completely agree with this and think people like this lady should take up adoption/fostering. So many children are in great need of it.

Rather than risking the life of 4 newborns with an increased risk of disability/health problems due to both her age and the fact they're quads.

The eggs are donated too. What are the health risks and why are people so interested? Some women smoke and drink through their pregnancy, that's also putting their child at risk.

Do you think a teenage mother, pregnant by accident, is going to make a better mother than this woman?

There are so many other more pressing worries than this.

[Marsh.]

The eggs are donated too. What are the health risks and why are people so interested? Some women smoke and drink through their pregnancy, that's also putting their child at risk.

Do you think a teenage mother, pregnant by accident, is going to make a better mother than this woman?

There are so many other more pressing worries than this.

Well, I'm commenting on it because it is the thread topic is it not?

Where did I suggest she's the worst mother to walk the earth and worse than teenage or drinking/smoking mums?

Yes, there are definitely more pressing worries. There tends to be more worrying/important things in the world than some things discussed on this forum but hey-ho, that's life. Doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Yes, pregnancies with more than 1 child are of a higher risk to the child. Just as the older the woman is, the more risk to the child. That's pretty much common knowledge.

Not to mention I believe menopause is nature's way of saying "That's enough". :laugh:

[Niamh.]

With donated sperm and a donated egg I don't see that's going to enhance the chances of a disabled child. And young people die too. This woman could live to be 100, no one knows how much time they've got. And it seems these kids will have a large, loving, extended family whatever happens. Having an unplanned, unwanted child and raising it on benefits in substandard housing is more selfish in my eyes.

She may live to be 100 but it's unlikely, yes young people die too but generally speaking not as often as old people :laugh: a large loving extended family, do you mean her other children? So they should be expected to take over looking after 4 children they didn't plan in the likely event of their mother either dying or becoming too old to cope with 4 young energetic children. Yes having an unplanned and unwanted child isn't ideal either but the word "unplanned" is key here. Also, just because that may be worse it doesn't make this woman unselfish imo

[Livia]

She may live to be 100 but it's unlikely, yes young people die too but generally speaking not as often as old people :laugh: a large loving extended family, do you mean her other children? So they should be expected to take over looking after 4 children they didn't plan in the likely event of their mother either dying or becoming too old to cope with 4 young energetic children. Yes having an unplanned and unwanted child isn't ideal either but the word "unplanned" is key here. Also, just because that may be worse it doesn't make this woman unselfish imo

Why would you so convinced that the family, and by that I do mean the other kids, would have to look after them? I would fully expect this woman to live at least until the kids are of the age of majority. And the alternative to her not having these children is for them not to exist at all. Given the choice, I imagine most people would choose life over non-existence.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't want it getting ugly in the car park later...

[Marsh.]

There is a reason that there comes a time when women can no longer conceive children. :laugh:

[Livia]

There is a reason that there comes a time when women can no longer conceive children. :laugh:

So if a woman has her menopause at 30, you think she should be refused help because it's natures way of telling her, no?

Medical science has improved in all areas, it seems strange that this is the one most people are objecting to.

[Niamh.]

Why would you so convinced that the family, and by that I do mean the other kids, would have to look after them? I would fully expect this woman to live at least until the kids are of the age of majority. And the alternative to her not having these children is for them not to exist at all. Given the choice, I imagine most people would choose life over non-existence.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't want it getting ugly in the car park later...

Because she's 65 years old now and she'll be 83 when when they're 18, there's a high chance that she will either die before then or not be able to look after them by that age

[Niamh.]

So if a woman has her menopause at 30, you think she should be refused help because it's natures way of telling her, no?

Medical science has improved in all areas, it seems strange that this is the one most people are objecting to.

what do you mean? It's the topic of the thread, just because people object to this doesn't mean they think everything else is ok and great :fist:

[Livia]

Because she's 65 years old now and she'll be 83 when when they're 18, there's a high chance that she will either die before then or not be able to look after them by that age

I doubt they'd have let her get this far without her being in reasonable physical condition. And anyway, we don't know what her family arrangements are, what she's planned or what's been agreed. Maybe she's from a long line of people who live a long life... Whatever the case, I still feel it's her call and no one else's to judge..

[Livia]

what do you mean? It's the topic of the thread, just because people object to this doesn't mean they think everything else is ok and great :fist:

Noooooooooo I don't mean that. I mean medical science makes massive leaps forward with all kind of treatment including fertility treatment. But this isn't the first thread on here about an older woman becoming a mother and it's the same story. No one cares enough to make a thread that, for instance, Billy Joel at the same age as this woman is about to become a father. But there's merry hell on if it's a woman.

[Niamh.]

Noooooooooo I don't mean that. I mean medical science makes massive leaps forward with all kind of treatment including fertility treatment. But this isn't the first thread on here about an older woman becoming a mother and it's the same story. No one cares enough to make a thread that, for instance, Billy Joel at the same age as this woman is about to become a father. But there's merry hell on if it's a woman.

If there was a thread made about that I would say the same thing :shrug:

[Marsh.]

So if a woman has her menopause at 30, you think she should be refused help because it's natures way of telling her, no?

Medical science has improved in all areas, it seems strange that this is the one most people are objecting to.

No. But there's a reason a woman's body doesn't let her reproduce passed a certain age. As I said, there are other (far safer) options than carrying a child at such an old age.

[Marsh.]

what do you mean? It's the topic of the thread, just because people object to this doesn't mean they think everything else is ok and great :fist:

Exactly. :umm2:

[Jason.]

I'm all for people wanting to bring kids into the world, but the risks at her age aren't good, let alone the fact she'll be in her late 70's trying to cope with teenagers.

[smudgie]

She is a ruddy nutter..already had thirteen kids and now 4 more on the way.
Rather greedy.

[Vicky.]

Theres a big difference between a mother and a father having a kid really late in life though, being that the male doesn't have to carry the child..which in itself could bring huge complications especially with her age. Also traditionally (I know not always) the woman tends to have a more active role in the childrens life too, especially when they are babies. Along with that this woman seems to be 'going it alone' so to speak, which theres not a problem with BUT, this is what makes it different from an older guy having a kid with a younger mum. Nature tells us women to stop..and its for a reason. Yes some people have the menopause early, or can never naturally have kids. But generally, a woman can naturally have children til shes about 50 ish. Men never stop being able to (again generally)

Also personally I find it rather selfish for 70 year old blokes and such to keep fathering kids :shrug: But I see a big difference between a 65 year old bloke getting someone pregnant, and a 65 year old woman being inseminated to be pregnant and have a child. Just enjoy being a grandmother, or adopt ffs D:

[Marsh.]

Vicky explaining my points so much more eloquently. :flutter:

[Kizzy]

The issue isn't whether she would make a good mother it's if her body will be strong enough to cope with the trauma of a multiple birth.
Carrying 1 baby at 65 would be a strain, but 4?
For me it's more irresponsible than the teen having one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

she obviously has some metal issues

[AnnieK]

There is also the stigma facing the children having such an older mother. Is she going to be able to offer the same physical development as a younger parent - is her health and body going to allow her to keep up with the demands of raising four children alone. The chances of going full term is low with a multiple birth so the chances are the children will all require extra help for possibly years to come. I can see a lot of cons and not many pros to having a child so late in life.

Family genetics mean jack **** too - all my grandparents have been in their 90s when they passed away (my surviving grandmother is 88) but my mum died at 65 after a very short illness and no real previous medical problems. ( yes, I am angry about that fact)

I am all for the medical advances in treating infertility (having been treated for it myself) but as she has already borne 13 children I don't think that is an issue for this lady.

[Ammi]

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

[armand.kay]

#anyholesagoal

Bye nn

[Kizzy]

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

It's all well and good making decisions about having child after child but expecting your children to raise them for you? I don't think that's acceptable.
she has a 10yr old as well as these 4 babies (if they all survive) and possibly others under 18, passing the responsibility for all those children onto others would be unfair.

[Livia]

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

I do understand people's objections but I feel sure an educated woman, a teacher, wouldn't have gone into this blindly. People are also misunderstanding the point about her "making arrangements, assuming this means children bringing up children. I'm sure her older children are well into adulthood and able to have a conversation about the future without people assuming they're idiots unable to make a decision on their own. And "family" means a wider group than just children. People are living longer, everyone's assuming this woman's going to be dead in ten years and I doubt, if there were any indications that she would be, that she would have gone ahead with this. Which brings us back to, no one knows how long they've got.

[lostalex]

It's unfortunate that people are so judgmental. If the plumbing still works i don't see the problem. If it's okay for a 30y/o who is to say it's not okay for a 60y/o. You have to have one rule for everyone. it's not fair to have different rules for different people based on age, or race, or gender or sexuality.

equality must be universal. one set of rules for all, and all rules for every one. that's what equality is.

[Kizzy]

No doctor in their right mind would advocate a 65yr old carrying quads, so imo she is far from being in her right mind.
You would have to be an idiot to agree to raise your mothers children as she continues to have children way past natural menopausal age.
Family is all well and good but I would prefer my children to decide when and how many mouths they have to feed.
There is no guarantees as to how her aging body will cope with the stress of quads or how quickly she will be able to recover from the surgery associated with multiple births.

[kirklancaster]

she obviously has some metal issues

Yes but apart from 'Metal' issues, if she is going to give birth to quads, she's also going to have problems with the seat and those four huge rubber tyres. I think after the first one each other quad will get easier to pass. :hehe: This should stretch her wrinkly skin a bit.

[Marsh.]

It's unfortunate that people are so judgmental. If the plumbing still works i don't see the problem. If it's okay for a 30y/o who is to say it's not okay for a 60y/o. You have to have one rule for everyone. it's not fair to have different rules for different people based on age, or race, or gender or sexuality.

equality must be universal. one set of rules for all, and all rules for every one. that's what equality is.

That's all well and good but there is a reason why women stop being able naturally conceive beyond a certain age.

Comparing a 30yo and a 65yo when it comes to carrying children is so stupid it make your post laughable.

[Ammi]

That's all well and good but there is a reason why women stop being able naturally conceive beyond a certain age.

Comparing a 30yo and a 65yo when it comes to carrying children is so stupid it make your post laughable.

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

...anyway, it's not something I really have specific strong views about, I wish her well and hope that she has a healthy pregnancy and 4 beautiful healthy children ....

[jennyjuniper]

I became a mother at 42 and I was knackered most of the time. I'm reasonably fit, but I just didn't have the boundless energy that a toddler requires you to have.
On the flip side, I did have more patience than when I had my daughter 13 years before.
However 65 is far too old. Especially when it's by fertilisation. IVF should only be used on women who can't concieve any other way and certainly not if they already have a football team!

[Cherie]

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

...anyway, it's not something I really have specific strong views about, I wish her well and hope that she has a healthy pregnancy and 4 beautiful healthy children ....

That is a very good point Ammi, good luck to her and her brood

[the truth]

who paid for this?

[Marsh.]

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

Yes, of course. But beyond being unable to have children at any age, the body cannot cope with pregnancy beyond a certain age as the body becomes frailer and cannot handle the same things a much younger body can.

Helping the infertile and homosexuals to have children in different ways is all well and good but this is something different I feel personally.

It's like sending a man in his 70s with his rusty back, knees and arthritis to go and do heavy lifting for a living because it's discriminatory and ageist to turn him down despite the obvious differences between him and a fit as a fiddle 25 year old. :laugh:

I think our society takes the positive "You can do anything at any time, it's never too late" attitude to extremes at times. :laugh: Things happen for a reason.

If a woman can't have children because her body is not suitable for carrying a baby, they go down the adoption, surrogacy or any of the other routes to achieve their dream of having children. Their body won't allow a natural conception for a reason.
Your body not allowing you to naturally conceive a child at a certain age is doing so for a reason, both for the mother and the potential offspring.