america- a force for good or evil?

[the truth]

Just thought Id throw out a nice easy one for you to ponder lol

Having watched several documentaries , including john pilgers films and oliver stones recent 9 part series on the untold history of America...I have to admit the jury is out

They are the worlds police force. But do we need them to be?

If they were not and all decisions were left to the united nations or nato or other international commitees....would the world be a better safer place?

after being at war with itself,America has been at war with endless countries for the last 100 years....

But its easy to sit on the sidelines and list all the countries Americas has bombed (over 60 I believe) and all the people its killed and the democratic governments its overthrowed....however if they hadn't done it, would it have been left to the United nations anyway?

Some lines in these documentaries stay with you....the secret of all empires has nothing to do with greater intelligence or knowledge or some greater calling to make the world a better place...its driven by greed and delivered by organized violence.

Is America asks oliver stone, a nice idea that's simply outgrown its original ideals...in becoming so expansive is it even possible to stay close to those ideals in dealing with the entire world and a rapidly changing world

other than the endless wars, the most depressing part is the fact the gap between rich and poor is now greater than ever.....bankers in Europe earn 30 to 40 times the average workers wage....but in America...BANKERS EARN AN AVERAGE OF 243 TIMES THE AVERAGE WORKERS WAGE!!!

the wealth of the top 1% in the world is almost equivalent to the rests put together...the number of billioanires has gone up from 41 to 469 in 20 years between 1987 and 2007 in the usa alone

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/world/wealth-inequality/

chile mexico and turkey have the worst income inequality, America is 4th Israel 5th uk is 6th

rather ironic the 3 power brokers of world politics have the worst inequality...such phenomenal hypocrisy

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/poorest-list/10-countries-with-the-worst-income-inequality/?view=all

other issues brought up were the corruption of the English languages, spin , propaganda, as orwell wrote first they will corrupt the language, rid it of its meaning then they will steal it

other issues surrounded drone strikes and the enormous trade in drones world wide now as the race to the bottom continues.....the control of the south Americas, the puppet governments, the drug cartels...the list goes on and on...the endless intrusion and erosion of civil liberties, stealing communications tapping phones by the millions etc etc

these documentaries are well worth a look and may influence your opinion onwhether America should be the police or should be policed

[arista]

Both

[the truth]

Both

lol cheers

[user104658]

The people at the top don't have good or pure intentions at all, but giving the majority of their people the illusion of being empowered and feeling relatively comfortable (by global standards) is important to their own agenda and so it's far from the worst place in the world to actually live. For most people. And horrendous for others.

[user104658]

Just to add, this is in my opinion true all Western democracies, not just America.

[the truth]

absolute power corrupts absolutely...I guess as long as you have enough money to be healthy and take care of your family , do you really need yachts and sports cars? ..another way to look at it is ... you could feel sympathy for some megalomaniacs who spends his/her every hour every day trying to build and protect his/her empire....paranoid suspicious untrusting about everything and everyone.....always looking over your shoulder for your enemies and their weapons.....you my be better off living the life of a hobo, if you've got nothing you've got nothing to lose

[joeysteele]

I would say on balance a force for good.

[Nedusa]

God bless the United States of America........you hear this mantra all the time spoken by Americans who really believe their young Country is singularly blessed by God as some sort of beacon for Good.

Well it did start out that way with it's new and all encompassing Constitution with rights for everyone. A shining beacon on a hill , well over two hundred years later what do we have...?

A Country that espouses liberty and freedom and has engaged in over 10 major wars just to drive those principles home.

A Country that started so well but soon the Capitalists and the greed took over now we have what's left of the great American dream.

more like a nightmare if you ask me, although still the Worlds only Superpower there is nothing really super about the US, with crippling national debt and an economy so dependent on wars and oil you have to wonder when it's finally going to implode.

The rich are fabulously wealthy and live gloriously but the poor well it is nothing short of a disgrace how the poor are left to live in the "best Country" in the World.

Your typical american is literally worked to death with little in the way of any Welfare benefits your average american must constantly worry about losing his/her job, and with no Health service any operation means they may have to sell the house.

They have little or no employment rights unlike their European counterparts they only get 10 days annual vacation and can be fired for any or no reason.

Fed food that is of such a low quality it would not be passed fit for human consumption in some european capitals they strive to survive eating fat laden/sugar laden rubbish which invariably leads onto health problems with obesity and diabetes etc...

This in turn exacerbates the health costs and their Health insurance costs.

They are a nation of pill takers, pills to wake up, pills to not feel depressed then more pills to get to sleep at night.

I could write volumes about the Country where image is everything but the reality is actually pretty awful.

As I said earlier the rich few lead wonderful lives and have probably only gotten rich by exploiting the poor, who live if I'm honest pretty crappy lives.

Is America a force for Good ? No not really, it's a sad shell of a Country constantly attacking smaller Countries to stop it's Hegemony being challenged and it's reserve currency status from being taken away.

The Sun is definitely setting on America's day in the Sun and I for one cannot wait for sunset.

[user104658]

absolute power corrupts absolutely...I guess as long as you have enough money to be healthy and take care of your family , do you really need yachts and sports cars? ..another way to look at it is ... you could feel sympathy for some megalomaniacs who spends his/her every hour every day trying to build and protect his/her empire....paranoid suspicious untrusting about everything and everyone.....always looking over your shoulder for your enemies and their weapons.....you my be better off living the life of a hobo, if you've got nothing you've got nothing to lose

What is "true" security in this world, though? You might have enough money to be healthy and take care of your family today, only for your whole country to crumble tomorrow. The only way to be truly secure in this world is to have so much money that you could live the rest of your life out comfortably, in any country of your choosing, without having to do another day's work. So, be a multi-millionaire in multiple currencies or in valuable collectable assets with global appeal (i.e. not property, unless it's spread across multiple countries).

The scary thing is, that most of the leaders or potential leaders of these countries fall into that category. They are personally "safe", no matter what happens.

[Nedusa]

What is "true" security in this world, though? You might have enough money to be healthy and take care of your family today, only for your whole country to crumble tomorrow. The only way to be truly secure in this world is to have so much money that you could live the rest of your life out comfortably, in any country of your choosing, without having to do another day's work. So, be a multi-millionaire in multiple currencies or in valuable collectable assets with global appeal (i.e. not property, unless it's spread across multiple countries).

The scary thing is, that most of the leaders or potential leaders of these countries fall into that category. They are personally "safe", no matter what happens.

But is this not trying to buy security , security through having vast wealth. This is not real security though is it. You just as well build a big cage and live in it.

No real security comes when people are treated equally and live together helping each other without constant fear someone is going to come in and take everything away from you.

[lostalex]

considering the world is the most peaceful it's ever been, science has progressed more in the last 100 years than in the 1000 years before, that human beings live the healthiest, longest, most fulfilling lives that they have ever lived, all under the reign of America (an empire if you believe the likes of pilger and stone) one can only conclude that America is a force for good.

[arista]

I would say on balance a force for good.



The USA President
is Murdering Public People and children
who die under America Deadly Drone Attacks


Thats Fecking Evil

[lostalex]

The USA President
is Murdering Public People and children
who die under America Deadly Drone Attacks


Thats Fecking Evil

no, terrorists hiding amongst innocent women and children is Fecking evil.

[Livia]

Nothing is ever black or white but shades of grey. And that applies to every country in the world. Every country has something to offer and something to fear, and just because the USA is big, doesn't make it better... or indeed worse.

[lostalex]

Nothing is ever black or white but shades of grey. And that applies to every country in the world. Every country has something to offer and something to fear, and just because the USA is big, doesn't make it better... or indeed worse.

the USA isn't even that big in relation to the other continents of the world. We have definitely done the most with what we have though, and in the shortest amount of time. We really are exceptional in that regard.

[arista]

no, terrorists hiding amongst innocent women and children is Fecking evil.


Sure

[Livia]

considering the world is the most peaceful it's ever been, science has progressed more in the last 100 years than in the 1000 years before, that human beings live the healthiest, longest, most fulfilling lives that they have ever lived, all under the reign of America (an empire if you believe the likes of pilger and stone) one can only conclude that America is a force for good.

Simply you believing this shows how insular Americans can be, hardly ever looking outside their own country for good. There's a whole world of good deeds, of innovation and advancement, of brilliance, of humanitarianism that Americans will never have heard of because interest in that kind of stuff stops at your own border.

[Livia]

the USA isn't even that big in relation to the other continents of the world. We have definitely done the most with what we have though, and in the shortest amount of time. We really are exceptional in that regard.

The fact that you really do believe that makes you a typical American. That's not a bad thing, it's good to believe in your own country. It's not so good to snipe at others and claim you're better. You're not. You're just bigger and richer. You still have problems, you still have appalling racism, poverty, want... just like every country.

[lostalex]

Simply you believing this shows how insular Americans can be, hardly ever looking outside their own country for good. There's a whole world of good deeds, of innovation and advancement, of brilliance, of humanitarianism that Americans will never have heard of because interest in that kind of stuff stops at your own border.

and by you saying that shows how insular you are Livia. your stereotypes of America are hilarious.

[Livia]

and by you saying that shows how insular you are Livia. your stereotypes of America are hilarious.

I suppose the difference is that I've lived in the USA, in several states, and visited several more. And you've probably never been outside the USA. I speak as I find... you speak as you see in the media.

[lostalex]

The fact that you really do believe that makes you a typical American. That's not a bad thing, it's good to believe in your own country. It's not so good to snipe at others and claim you're better. You're not. You're just bigger and richer. You still have problems, you still have appalling racism, poverty, want... just like every country.

What we have accomplished in just around 250 years is more than other countries have accomplished in thousands of years.

There is no doubt that America is exceptional.

[lostalex]

I suppose the difference is that I've lived in the USA, in several states, and visited several more. And you've probably never been outside the USA. I speak as I find... you speak as you see in the media.

of course i've never been outside of the USA, because i'm American, and i don't even have a passport right?? lol you are so ignorant Lydia, and you don't realize what a hypocrite you are.

BTW, I've been to the UK numerous times. some would even call me an anglophile, but i'm quick to remind them that -phile implies i love the UK, and i don't. i'm just interested in it. big difference.

[Livia]

What we have accomplished in just around 250 years is more than other countries have accomplished in thousands of years.

There is no doubt that America is exceptional.

America is an amalgam of every country in the world, with your biggest national group coming from England, according to the Ellis Island Museum. Many countries are exceptional... you'd have never got the to Moon without German scientists. And yet the Team American attitude abides... it's very typically... American.

[lostalex]

America is an amalgam of every country in the world, with your biggest national group coming from England, according to the Ellis Island Museum. Many countries are exceptional... you'd have never got the to Moon without German scientists. And yet the Team American attitude abides... it's very typically... American.

and most of the english come from germany. what's your point? by your logic no country is a true country, we're all from a tribe in africa.

[Livia]

of course i've never been outside of the USA, because i'm American, and i don't even have a passport right?? lol you are so ignorant Lydia, and you don't realize what a hypocrite you are.

BTW, I've been to the UK numerous times. some would even call me an anglophile, but i'm quick to remind them that -phile implies i love the UK, and i don't. i'm just interested in it. big difference.

You are not an anglophile Alex. You a super-critical of the UK. Which is fine.

Incidentally, stop calling me names, I haven't done that to you.

And my name is NOT Lydia!

[Livia]

and most of the english come from germany. what's your point? by your logic no country is a true country, we're all from a tribe in africa.

I suppose that depends how far back you want to go. The USA's conquest of the Moon happened while the German scientists were still speaking in their native tongue. It's different, and you know it.

[lostalex]

You are not an anglophile Alex. You a super-critical of the UK. Which is fine.

Incidentally, stop calling me names, I haven't done that to you.

And my name is NOT Lydia!

sorry, nothing personal. ask my boyfriend, i'm horrible with names. no offense meant.

[lostalex]

I suppose that depends how far back you want to go. The USA's conquest of the Moon happened while the German scientists were still speaking in their native tongue. It's different, and you know it.

it's actually not different at all, the scientists were american no matter what language they were speaking, hate to burst your bubble but English is not the official language of the USA.

[Livia]

sorry, nothing personal. ask my boyfriend, i'm horrible with names. no offense meant.

None taken.

[lostalex]

you saying the scientists on the Apollo missions were not American is no different than saying Mo Farrah didn't win the running for the UK at the olympics.

[Livia]

it's actually not different at all, the scientists were american no matter what language they were speaking, hate to burst your bubble but English is not the official language of the USA.


It should be Navajo, or Arapaho, or Ute, or Apache...

We're going to scrap over this and I don't want to scrap with you... so I'm out. Have a nice day, Alex.

[Glenn.]

Oh. I was about to post a Michael Jackson popcorn gif

[lostalex]

Have a great weekend, sis.

[lostalex]

It should be Navajo, or Arapaho, or Ute, or Apache...


Maybe it would be, if you British (and french, and dutch, and spanish) didn't kill most of them with your european diseases.

[Livia]

you saying the scientists on the Apollo missions were not American is no different than saying Mo Farrah didn't win the running for the UK at the olympics.

Just one more for clarity...

I think it's a fact that we celebrate Mo as a refugee from another country who we've made part of the family. Whereas the scientists referred to are "American, you said it yourself. We have a different ethos is all. Like I said in my first post, no one's all good or all bad, just shades of grey.

[Livia]

Maybe it would be, if you British (and french, and dutch, and spanish) didn't kill most of them with your european diseases.

When did we become Americans then? After we'd done all the bad stuff, and before we did all the good stuff?

Anyhoo... like I said... have a nice day.

[lostalex]

Just one more for clarity...

I think it's a fact that we celebrate Mo as a refugee from another country who we've made part of the family. Whereas the scientists referred to are "American, you said it yourself. We have a different ethos is all. Like I said in my first post, no one's all good or all bad, just shades of grey.

so you are saying that Mo isn't "British"? you aren't being clear. The UK seemed pretty happy to get that medal added to the british talley to me...

[kirklancaster]

I an not getting embroiled in any USA V UK argument, but I will say; that for all her faults; There is not one single day that goes by that I do not literally pray to my God for America's survival and continuance as I pray for the same for the UK, because without the USA we are ****ed.

I watched the Gerard Butler film; 'Olympus Has Fallen' again the other day, and I find it disturbing and a tad alarming. God forbid it should ever happen - no matter that it has a 'good' ending.

I do not believe in any 'United States of Europe' and I do not believe that we have any friends in Europe.

I am not popular because of my views on God, Christianity and Immigration and the EU, so here's another two;

I support the USA and I support Israel and God forbid the day when either succumb.

[the truth]

I think Livia calling alex a typical American is ignorant. Its a typical ignorant thing we English often say about americans and I find it embarrassing. It's nothing more than a cheap shot, the americans Ive known at least don't keep saying oh another typical English man, so in that regard they're less ignorant than us. It's also ignorant to assume all americans haven't left America. Also to put into context , America is a bigger land mass than Europe, what percentage of Europeans have been outside Europe? not a high percentage I'd expect. The main reason we travel more is because our countries are relatively tiny.

[Livia]

I think Livia calling alex a typical American is ignorant. Its a typical ignorant thing we English often say about americans and I find it embarrassing. It's nothing more than a cheap shot, the americans Ive known at least don't keep saying oh another typical English man, so in that regard they're less ignorant than us. It's also ignorant to assume all americans haven't left America. Also to put into context , America is a bigger land mass than Europe, what percentage of Europeans have been outside Europe? not a high percentage I'd expect. The main reason we travel more is because our countries are relatively tiny.

Try to discuss the topic, and not me.

[the truth]

Try to discuss the topic, and not me.

you said something ignorant , I have every right to point that out and I did and I will continue to do so if you say something ignorant. congratulations on controlling your temper this time and not swearing at me though, well done

[Livia]

you said something ignorant , I have every right to point that out and I did and I will continue to do so if you say something ignorant. congratulations on controlling your temper this time and not swearing at me though, well done

If I replied to every ignorant post of yours I'd be on here all day. Alex can talk for himself, we're old friends. To add some context, I actually said "The fact that you really do believe that makes you a typical American. That's not a bad thing, it's good to believe in your own country".

[kirklancaster]

you said something ignorant , I have every right to point that out and I did and I will continue to do so if you say something ignorant. congratulations on controlling your temper this time and not swearing at me though, well done

Truth - I really think that Livia used the word 'ignorant' in the context of its true meaning; 'not being conversant with the facts of', and did not use it in the insulting manner in which it has - wrongly - come to be used.

Some times posts which don't mention the word 'ignorant' can be the most truly ignorant and I'm sure Livia was not being insulting or ignorant at all.

[Livia]

Truth - I really think that Livia used the word 'ignorant' in the context of its true meaning; 'not being conversant with the facts of', and did not use it in the insulting manner in which it has - wrongly - come to be used.

Some times posts which don't mention the word 'ignorant' can be the most truly ignorant and I'm sure Livia was not being insulting or ignorant at all.

Thank you, Kirk. Alex and I have been conversing for a long time, we often use quite basic language... we are still friends. I mean no insult to him at all, as you seem to be aware.

[Northern Monkey]

Neither imo.Like anywhere there is some good and some bad in America.Britain is no saint either.Infact no country is perfect,Some are worse than others but i would'nt class America as one of them.

[the truth]

I stand by every word, to generalize using the term typical American is ignorant imo

[empire]

thing is, that would americans like to have artillery shell holes through there house roofs,or air strikes hitting their homes, no, but they support this in the east ukraine, they also think that there tanks will roll over the border, and take moscow, and catch the evil putin, americans think that they can police russia, but they can't, and have to live in a world that hollywood keeps this dream going.

[kirklancaster]

I an not getting embroiled in any USA V UK argument, but I will say; that for all her faults; There is not one single day that goes by that I do not literally pray to my God for America's survival and continuance as I pray for the same for the UK, because without the USA we are ****ed.

I watched the Gerard Butler film; 'Olympus Has Fallen' again the other day, and I find it disturbing and a tad alarming. God forbid it should ever happen - no matter that it has a 'good' ending.

I do not believe in any 'United States of Europe' and I do not believe that we have any friends in Europe.

I am not popular because of my views on God, Christianity and Immigration and the EU, so here's another two;

I support the USA and I support Israel and God forbid the day when either succumb.

Oh - Just noticed the Mod edit and the advice to; "Stop avoiding the swearing filter" OK fair enough - Will do. Sorry.

[Nedusa]

thing is, that would americans like to have artillery shell holes through there house roofs,or air strikes hitting their homes, no, but they support this in the east ukraine, they also think that there tanks will roll over the border, and take moscow, and catch the evil putin, americans think that they can police russia, but they can't, and have to live in a world that hollywood keeps this dream going.

Agree.... Nice to have a post like this that offers a bit of balance and isn't full of undeserved platitudes about how the US is our friend and is the arbiter of truth and justice....

[lily.]

http://royreid.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/RoyReid.ca-Murrica-5.jpg

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/4b6287fbd8164e54416eb9b0c33d23f38b5ae440634aac4245 6d4bedd83d6249.jpg

[kirklancaster]

http://royreid.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/RoyReid.ca-Murrica-5.jpg

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/4b6287fbd8164e54416eb9b0c33d23f38b5ae440634aac4245 6d4bedd83d6249.jpg

:joker: And she obviously has also a very strong Flag. :hehe:

[the truth]

http://royreid.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/RoyReid.ca-Murrica-5.jpg

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/4b6287fbd8164e54416eb9b0c33d23f38b5ae440634aac4245 6d4bedd83d6249.jpg

as darkly funny as that poster is, Jesus preached against greed. which it appears that lady certainly is

[billy123]

Evil

[lostalex]

If I replied to every ignorant post of yours I'd be on here all day. Alex can talk for himself, we're old friends. To add some context, I actually said "The fact that you really do believe that makes you a typical American. That's not a bad thing, it's good to believe in your own country".

This is true. i appreciate the point you are making "the truth" but Livia was not being ignorant to me, she's right we have a long history of debate and I was not offended by that. let's stick to the thread topic, which is about the role of the US IN THE WORLD.

You do make a good point about the double standard for Americans in Europe though. There is definitely a stereotype that Americans are less intelligent by nature. The fact that Americans are responsible for most of the important advances in technology, and medicine, and science in the last 80 years proves it's not true, but still, it is an ugly stereotype, and a hurtful one.

[lostalex]

http://royreid.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/RoyReid.ca-Murrica-5.jpg

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/4b6287fbd8164e54416eb9b0c33d23f38b5ae440634aac4245 6d4bedd83d6249.jpg

yes, let's make fun of an obese woman in a wheel chair... even though she might have been in a horrible accident that crippled her, and put on medications that have a side effect of weight gain, let's ridicule this woman, because clearly she's an asshole. and clearly she is the type of person that needs to be brought down a peg or two. hurray for picking on old fat ladies in wheelchairs!

[the truth]

we do give the americans a hard time , as individuals and I really do think we are being way out of order, to the point of ignorance...the line we hear fellow English men and women endlessly repeat is typical loud ignorant American...now try replacing the word American with....Irishman..African.....muslim...jew........ and suddenly it taks on different more sinister connotations...yet more double standards..people who use that anti American insult should really stop and think about that
I also agree that poster mocking the overweight disabled lady is in incredibly poor taste