Who won the BBC's Election Debate?

[zakman440]

Ed Miliband, Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon or Nigel Farage?

(I decided to make it a multiple choice poll this time incase there's no clear winner).

[MTVN]

Miliband is the only serious politician there and is having to bat away attacks from all sides so Id say him

[Kizzy]

Eddy! :D

[bots]

David Cameron :hehe:

[Kazanne]

David Cameron :hehe:

Yes ,Ed talks the talk but Cameron did the walk:joker::joker:

[karl100589]

Ed is handling a lot of the attacks on him quite well, and I think simply for the fact he is there while Cameron isn't will help him out.

Sturgeon is once again winning at a canter though, and I'm pleasantly surprised at a stronger performance from Leanne.

Farage has done nothing to remove the Right-wing loony tag and Natalie is once again out of her depth.

[Marsh.]

Cameron. Laughing his cock off from his couch.

[MB.]

-changes vote to Nicola Sturgeon-

[Marsh.]

*sends Leanne Wood back to the valleys*

[Vicky.]

Milliband was strong tonight IMO.

I honestly cant take Sturgeon or the welsh one seriously as they go on about wanting the best for 'britain' but then go on about only one part of britain.

[smudgie]

Reckon it was a good night for Dave.
Think he was very clever to orchestrate it all, his none appearance in particular.

[Pete.]

Farage and Nicola did the best.

[zakman440]

Ed, Nicola and Natalie were all the best for me, but Natalie was just a little better than the other two.

[kirklancaster]

Farage then Nicola.

[Nedusa]

Miliband is the only serious politician there and is having to bat away attacks from all sides so Id say him

So what are the rest of them then ?

Comic politicians, learner politicians , part time politicians .

I mean they're all leaders of their respective party's ffs.

[billy123]

UKIP exposing racists since 1993

[JoshBB]

Nicola & Natalie.

Honestly miliband and farage were awful tonight.

[Kizzy]

It was Leanne to be fair, her mockery of UKIP was hilare.

[MTVN]

So what are the rest of them then ?

Comic politicians, learner politicians , part time politicians .

I mean they're all leaders of their respective party's ffs.

Well Wood/Bennett/Farage will do well to have ten seats between them. Leanne Wood's party are polling fourth in Wales ffs. The Greens are a silly little party and Bennett and Wood just seemed like Sturgeon's lapdogs. Call me establishment but there's a reason that the two main parties are where they are, because they are the most moderate and sensible who actually have to make pledges that they translate into reality: they can't just say this and that in the knowledge that they will never have to make difficult decisions.

Edit - I concede I might have been a bit unfair on Sturgeon in that last post, she is very capable

[joeysteele]

I voted Nicola Sturgeon on the poll above but I rated her and Ed Milband equal really.

Nigel Farage lost the audience slightly which for him is a pity after what was a successful manifesto launch.

Sadly Natalie Bennett faded a bit tonight and Leanne Wood was nowhere near as good as last time.

I was watching this with 5 of my cousins and we all said we wished David Dimbleby would get a move in, there could have been at least 1 or even 2 more questions included if he'd got on with it and speeded up.

I really find it amazing the BBC chose not to include any questions as to the NHS directly but allowed another daft question, again never answered as to who will do a deal with who.

Ed Miliband came across more authorative tonight than the last time, I thought he handled himself well and looked really relaxed.
I do just love Nicola Sturgeon though.

[Vicky.]

Well Wood/Bennett/Farage will do well to have ten seats between them. Leanne Wood's party are polling fourth in Wales ffs. The Greens are a silly little party and Bennett and Wood just seemed like Sturgeon's lapdogs. Call me establishment but there's a reason that the two main parties are where they are, because they are the most moderate and sensible who actually have to make pledges that they translate into reality: they can't just say this and that in the knowledge that they will never have to make difficult decisions.

Really?! LOL. Arent they wales' version of the Snp though...all for wales, not giving a **** about anywhere else.. wanting wales above all other parts of britain, etc

[MTVN]

Really?! LOL. Arent they wales' version of the Snp though...all for wales, not giving a **** about anywhere else.. wanting wales above all other parts of britain, etc

Yeah even polling behind Ukip lol, think very slightly ahead of the Lib Dems. Trouble with Plaid is that they only have support in the south of Wales I think, those in the north feel as distant from Cardiff as they do from Westminster

[Cherie]

Milliband was strong tonight IMO.

I honestly cant take Sturgeon or the welsh one seriously as they go on about wanting the best for 'britain' but then go on about only one part of britain.

:clap1:


Nigel won "best in attacking the audience category"

[MTVN]

Survation BBC debate poll: Miliband 35% Sturgeon 31% Farage 27% Bennett 5% Wood 2%

[billy123]

The clatter of high heels running to Ed Milliband was deafening while poor old Nigel the Bigot was left out in the cold #LadyKiller

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/16/17/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-buzz-wide-17322-1429219380-19.jpg

[MB.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCvqR_0W4AEpJAN.jpg:large

[MTVN]

The clatter of high heels running to Ed Milliband was deafening while poor old Nigel the Bigot was left out in the cold #LadyKiller

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/16/17/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-buzz-wide-17322-1429219380-19.jpg

:joker:

[kirklancaster]

The clatter of high heels running to Ed Milliband was deafening while poor old Nigel the Bigot was left out in the cold #LadyKiller

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/16/17/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-buzz-wide-17322-1429219380-19.jpg

Yeah - reminiscent of how all those on 'The Apprentice' when they leave the boardroom and embrace the one who has been 'Fired' because they all attacked them, back-stabbed them, and threw them under the bus to Lord Sugar.

Puke inducing from the three witches. Old Nige is better off out of it.

[Cherie]

The clatter of high heels running to Ed Milliband was deafening while poor old Nigel the Bigot was left out in the cold #LadyKiller

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/16/17/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-buzz-wide-17322-1429219380-19.jpg

He acted like a spoilt brat tonight, he can't represent himself well never mind the country

[kirklancaster]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ccvqr_0w4aepjan.jpg:large

stop press!!!!

ed looks for cauldron as witches embrace and cackle with delight.

[Jack_]

The clatter of high heels running to Ed Milliband was deafening while poor old Nigel the Bigot was left out in the cold #LadyKiller

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-04/16/17/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-buzz-wide-17322-1429219380-19.jpg

:laugh3:

One of the highlights of the night, and the ladies hug was sweet

[Cherie]

stop press!!!!

ed looks for cauldron as witches embrace and cackle with delight.

:umm2:

[Kizzy]

:joker:

[the truth]

farage at least had the guts to talk about awkward problems like the fact we don't claim back any health care insurance for visiting foreigners....losing the nhs we supposedly love....billions? insane

[Crimson Dynamo]

:think:

I would probably go home with the welsh one

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/16/23/27A54D8200000578-3042402-image-a-44_1429223421786.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/17/00/27A50F2500000578-3042402-image-a-60_1429226986193.jpg

[Kazanne]

None of them said anything that they didn't say in the last debate .except for farage who seems fearless,so for that alone he edged it,can't do with them all calling others liars ,when they lie themselves.

[billy123]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/17/00/27A50F2500000578-3042402-image-a-60_1429226986193.jpgLMFAO people calling him a thick twat account for the majority of tweets about him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

LMFAO people calling him a thick twat account for the majority of tweets about him.

Yes there are a lot of teenagers on twitter

[kirklancaster]

None of them said anything that they didn't say in the last debate .except for farage who seems fearless,so for that alone he edged it,can't do with them all calling others liars ,when they lie themselves.

:clap1: You are so honest Kaz. Like him or loathe him, Farage WAS the most honest on that stage. He has the TRUE courage of his convictions and that's why he 'seems fearless'. I don't agree with all UKIP's policies but on the key issues which I strongly believe need addressing for all our kid's futures - he has definite and costed policies.

There is a great irony in people calling Farage a 'Bigot' and accusing him of being 'Prejudiced' because 'Bigotry' means 'intolerance towards anyone whose opinions differ from one's own', and 'Prejudice' means 'preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual evidence'.'

Farage has NOT been in power - unlike the big two over the past 60 years - and no one KNOWS what he WILL DO if ever he was to be in power. His Manifesto has been well received and commended - even by anti-UKIP political commentators, and I believe that the very grave, very real problems which threaten the very future of this country can only be sorted by someone who HAS the courage of their convictions, and who is not AFRAID to 'grasp the nettle' and speak out about the causes of some of these problems despite it not being 'P.C.' and despite KNOWING that such HONESTY and COURAGE leaves him even more vulnerable to attack and mockery from his detractors.

Farage was THE FIRST and only one to address the real truth about IMMIGRATION and our suicidal 'OPEN DOOR' immigration policy, and about the REAL COSTS of our membership of the EU, both of which are now being copied and adopted by the other parties - though they are merely paying pre-election 'LIP SERVICE' to such issues and 'MAKING THE RIGHT NOISES' to court votes.

I have voted for Labour and more lately The Tories but I do not sincerely believe that either of these two parties diluted policies on the real issues threatening the future of my country are enough to actually solve such issues, and from my own direct experience of the continued cycle of 'promises made pre-Election' and broken post-election' by the 'Big Two' when in power, I SIMPLY DO NOT BELIEVE THEM ANYMORE.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nigel doing open questions on 5 live as I type.

He puts a shift in that lad

[user104658]

Yeeeaaah I wouldn't take a spike in twitter chatter as a positive, it's usually people taking the piss.

And come on LT... You know that most teenagers don't watch election debates...

[kirklancaster]

Yes there are a lot of teenagers on twitter

So true LT and a lot of them can't even spell the word; 'Politics', let alone understand it.

[user104658]

Kirkby have to be honest and say that I'm really not convinced by the logic that he's unlikely to be lying just because he has a track record of lying. I said on another thread, Farage himself talks a good talk but something seriously stinks about a LOT of other UKIP politicians. Which makes me suspect that these are the true undercurrents of the party, and Nige has been put in the place of the "snake's head" BECAUSE he is a skilled speaker, convincing, a master manipulator.

If they were actually to gain any sort of power and their true colours come to light and are as putrid as many of us believe them to be... Then it would be a disaster. It seems like a huge gamble, to me, to "give him a chance" just because we can't be 100% sure that he's a liar like the rest of them. You must know that he probably is. He's a politician. I mean look at what everyone "believed" about the intentions of the "unproven" Clegg and a Lib Dems, and then look at what they actually did.

[edit] lol! This post is supposed to start "kirk I have to be honest", but I'm not changing it because "Kirkby" is a brilliant new nickname...

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/16/23/27A54D8200000578-3042402-image-a-44_1429223421786.jpg

Well Done SNP Lady

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was sickening to hear Ed attack Nigel on the NHS - he accused Nigel of favouring an American insurance based NHS and accused him of wanting to end the NHS



The factual aspect of this was 4 years ago when formulating policy Nigel asked a meeting to perhaps consider a system like happens in France and Holland - so they di, they debated it and then they threw it out.

That is how a good party works.


Such a cheap shot from a desperado

SMH

[kirklancaster]

It was sickening to hear Ed attack Nigel on the NHS - he accused Nigel of favouring an American insurance based NHS and accused him of wanting to end the NHS



The factual aspect of this was 4 years ago when formulating policy Nigel asked a meeting to perhaps consider a system like happens in France and Holland - so they di, they debated it and then they threw it out.

That is how a good party works.


Such a cheap shot from a desperado

SMH

:clap1:

[kirklancaster]

Kirkby have to be honest and say that I'm really not convinced by the logic that he's unlikely to be lying just because he has a track record of lying. I said on another thread, Farage himself talks a good talk but something seriously stinks about a LOT of other UKIP politicians. Which makes me suspect that these are the true undercurrents of the party, and Nige has been put in the place of the "snake's head" BECAUSE he is a skilled speaker, convincing, a master manipulator.

If they were actually to gain any sort of power and their true colours come to light and are as putrid as many of us believe them to be... Then it would be a disaster. It seems like a huge gamble, to me, to "give him a chance" just because we can't be 100% sure that he's a liar like the rest of them. You must know that he probably is. He's a politician. I mean look at what everyone "believed" about the intentions of the "unproven" Clegg and a Lib Dems, and then look at what they actually did.

[edit] lol! This post is supposed to start "kirk I have to be honest", but I'm not changing it because "Kirkby" is a brilliant new nickname...

The Conservative Party in its infancy, and even during its maturity, has had more than its fair share of Racists and Little Englanders who gravitated towards the party because its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

The Labour Party, similarly has had more than its fair share of Communists and Marxists who joined it for the same reasons ; that its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

And we will not mention that both parties harboured real TRAITORS to this country in the shape of Kim Philby, Donald Maclean, Guy Burgess and Anthony Blunt --- Oh I just did, sorry.

As for 'lying' -- EVERY PARTY LEADER has not only LIED as PARTY LEADERS but more importantly LIED while PRIME MINISTER if they've held power. Farage is a Novice by comparison.

Farage is the victim of very clever, well funded, and well placed propagandists who resurrect certain views which he may have opinionated in his past, in order to 'embarrass' him now by re-quoting them.

Is not Farage allowed to change his mind? Is a person not allowed to change their opinion?

Is a Party Leader not entitled to hold opinions which because they have been vetoed by his party in a democratic ballot, he cannot express as Party Policy?

Do we really believe that Cameron and Milliband, and EVERY Political Party leader of the past HAVE NOT held PERSONAL VIEWS which ran contrary to the party line?

There is no justification for 'scare-mongering' about what Farage may or may not do if he ever won an election, the fact is that IF he did turn out to try to implement policies which were damaging to this country (and he would be in good company if he did and only following ALL the PM's before him) then one solitary four year term is NOT sufficient for such adverse policies to be damaging at all, because he would most certainly NOT be in power for a second term if that were to be the case.

With Farage as PM, opinions as to what damaging policies he MIGHT implement are but WILD SPECULATION -- with both LABOUR and the TORIES THEIR continual damaging policies ARE DEFINITE HISTORICAL FACT.

[Cherie]

The Conservative Party in its infancy, and even during its maturity, has had more than its fair share of Racists and Little Englanders who gravitated towards the party because its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

The Labour Party, similarly has had more than its fair share of Communists and Marxists who joined it for the same reasons ; that its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

And we will not mention that both parties harboured real TRAITORS to this country in the shape of Kim Philby, Donald Maclean, Guy Burgess and Anthony Blunt --- Oh I just did, sorry.

As for 'lying' -- EVERY PARTY LEADER has not only LIED as PARTY LEADERS but more importantly LIED while PRIME MINISTER if they've held power. Farage is a Novice by comparison.

Farage is the victim of very clever, well funded, and well placed propagandists who resurrect certain views which he may have opinionated in his past, in order to 'embarrass' him now by re-quoting them.

Is not Farage allowed to change his mind? Is a person not allowed to change their opinion?

Is a Party Leader not entitled to hold opinions which because they have been vetoed by his party in a democratic ballot, he cannot express as Party Policy?

Do we really believe that Cameron and Milliband, and EVERY Political Party leader of the past HAVE NOT held PERSONAL VIEWS which ran contrary to the party line?

There is no justification for 'scare-mongering' about what Farage may or may not do if he ever won an election, the fact is that IF he did turn out to try to implement policies which were damaging to this country (and he would be in good company if he did and only following ALL the PM's before him) then one solitary four year term is NOT sufficient for such adverse policies to be damaging at all, because he would most certainly NOT be in power for a second term if that were to be the case.

With Farage as PM, opinions as to what damaging policies he MIGHT implement are but WILD SPECULATION -- with both LABOUR and the TORIES THEIR continual damaging policies ARE DEFINITE HISTORICAL FACT.


Kirk no one manufactured his ill mannered behaviour last night, he is not leadership material imo

[Nedusa]

The Conservative Party in its infancy, and even during its maturity, has had more than its fair share of Racists and Little Englanders who gravitated towards the party because its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

The Labour Party, similarly has had more than its fair share of Communists and Marxists who joined it for the same reasons ; that its policies more closely aligned with their own views than the other parties.

And we will not mention that both parties harboured real TRAITORS to this country in the shape of Kim Philby, Donald Maclean, Guy Burgess and Anthony Blunt --- Oh I just did, sorry.

As for 'lying' -- EVERY PARTY LEADER has not only LIED as PARTY LEADERS but more importantly LIED while PRIME MINISTER if they've held power. Farage is a Novice by comparison.

Farage is the victim of very clever, well funded, and well placed propagandists who resurrect certain views which he may have opinionated in his past, in order to 'embarrass' him now by re-quoting them.

Is not Farage allowed to change his mind? Is a person not allowed to change their opinion?

Is a Party Leader not entitled to hold opinions which because they have been vetoed by his party in a democratic ballot, he cannot express as Party Policy?

Do we really believe that Cameron and Milliband, and EVERY Political Party leader of the past HAVE NOT held PERSONAL VIEWS which ran contrary to the party line?

There is no justification for 'scare-mongering' about what Farage may or may not do if he ever won an election, the fact is that IF he did turn out to try to implement policies which were damaging to this country (and he would be in good company if he did and only following ALL the PM's before him) then one solitary four year term is NOT sufficient for such adverse policies to be damaging at all, because he would most certainly NOT be in power for a second term if that were to be the case.

With Farage as PM, opinions as to what damaging policies he MIGHT implement are but WILD SPECULATION -- with both LABOUR and the TORIES THEIR continual damaging policies ARE DEFINITE HISTORICAL FACT.

Contrary to what some people might think, Nigel Farage came out of this debacle with a massive amount of respect and credit.

Millions of people watching this probably saw what I witnessed ie a pre planned stitch up of the UKIP candidate with a loony left wing audience, together with the other party leaders also conspiring to brow beat Mr Farage.

Well it hasn't worked and if I'm honest it has probably had the opposite effect in intended because I like most viewers sat at home saw an honest, truthful and dignified performance from Nigel Farage where he answered honestly and spoke the truth.

I think UKIP's stock will rise even further after this as people can clearly see the establishment are desparate to stop this man and his party at ALL costs.

If politics in this Country has any chance of ever re-connecting with the average person on the street, people like Nigel Farage must succeed in breaking the sham that passes now for politics.

Eventually enough people with half a brain will see he is speaking the truth and that truth shame's the mainstream political parties as it shows the dismal abject failure of politics in the UK in the last 50 years.

Let's have more debates like this as eventually the real message will start to hit home.

[kirklancaster]

Kirk no one manufactured his ill mannered behaviour last night, he is not leadership material imo

Fair comment Cherie and your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, but my post was not about last night's show, but was solely in direct response to ToySoldier's post and the points which he made, and he did not even refer to the show:

"Kirkby have to be honest and say that I'm really not convinced by the logic that he's unlikely to be lying just because he has a track record of lying. I said on another thread, Farage himself talks a good talk but something seriously stinks about a LOT of other UKIP politicians. Which makes me suspect that these are the true undercurrents of the party, and Nige has been put in the place of the "snake's head" BECAUSE he is a skilled speaker, convincing, a master manipulator.

If they were actually to gain any sort of power and their true colours come to light and are as putrid as many of us believe them to be... Then it would be a disaster. It seems like a huge gamble, to me, to "give him a chance" just because we can't be 100% sure that he's a liar like the rest of them. You must know that he probably is. He's a politician. I mean look at what everyone "believed" about the intentions of the "unproven" Clegg and a Lib Dems, and then look at what they actually did.

[edit] lol! This post is supposed to start "kirk I have to be honest", but I'm not changing it because "Kirkby" is a brilliant new nickname..."
__________________

[kirklancaster]

Contrary to what some people might think, Nigel Farage came out of this debacle with a massive amount of respect and credit.

Millions of people watching this probably saw what I witnessed ie a pre planned stitch up of the UKIP candidate with a loony left wing audience, together with the other party leaders also conspiring to brow beat Mr Farage.

Well it hasn't worked and if I'm honest it has probably had the opposite effect in intended because I like most viewers sat at home saw an honest, truthful and dignified performance from Nigel Farage where he answered honestly and spoke the truth.

I think UKIP's stock will rise even further after this as people can clearly see the establishment are desparate to stop this man and his party at ALL costs.

If politics in this Country has any chance of ever re-connecting with the average person on the street, people like Nigel Farage must succeed in breaking the sham that passes now for politics.

Eventually enough people with half a brain will see he is speaking the truth and that truth shame's the mainstream political parties as it shows the dismal abject failure of politics in the UK in the last 50 years.

Let's have more debates like this as eventually the real message will start to hit home.

:worship::worship::worship: As ever - brilliant.

[joeysteele]

Kirk no one manufactured his ill mannered behaviour last night, he is not leadership material imo

The one thing needed to be avoided at all costs,no matter how hard the road gets,is not to attack and get at an audience or the voters.
Probably Nigel would have been seen as performing the best had he not done that but dealt with it.

Miliband just dismisses what he sees as petty getting at him and he has had almost as much, if not maybe more of that from some sections of the media than Nigel Farage.
He has never however turned on an audience before and always retains a dignified pose and response.

Nigel Farage, had a strong base coming into this debate, he had seen a good launch of UKIPs manifesto, with some strong talking pints as to the policies in it.
He was the only one from the right there last night, so had a free run to challenge all before him.

Had Nick Clegg been there, I think he would have excelled again as it seems he enjoys taking Clegg on and really going for him.

They were saying much the same as was said before however that was from the questions asked, there wasn't room to go down other routes.

[kirklancaster]

The one thing needed to be avoided at all costs,no matter how hard the road gets,is not to attack and get at an audience or the voters.
Probably Nigel would have been seen as performing the best had he not done that but dealt with it.

Miliband just dismisses what he sees as petty getting at him and he has had almost as much, if not maybe more of that from some sections of the media than Nigel Farage.
He has never however turned on an audience before and always retains a dignified pose and response.

Nigel Farage, had a strong base coming into this debate, he had seen a good launch of UKIPs manifesto, with some strong talking pints as to the policies in it.
He was the only one from the right there last night, so had a free run to challenge all before him.

Had Nick Clegg been there, I think he would have excelled again as it seems he enjoys taking Clegg on and really going for him.

They were saying much the same as was said before however that was from the questions asked, there wasn't room to go down other routes.

Again Joey - a well balanced FAIR post from you.

I agree that Farage perhaps should have exercised a little more restraint in his dealing with an - obviously - antagonistic anti-UKIP audience, but YOU and ME know only too well Joey how the most reasoned of us can let consistent, concerted antagonism get to us, especially when we are outnumbered and a lone voice crying in a deliberately non-sympathetic wilderness.

[Kizzy]

RK0S1RYYBqc

[Cherie]

Again Joey - a well balanced FAIR post from you.

I agree that Farage perhaps should have exercised a little more restraint in his dealing with an - obviously - antagonistic anti-UKIP audience, but YOU and ME know only too well Joey how the most reasoned of us can let consistent, concerted antagonism get to us, especially when we are outnumbered and a lone voice crying in a deliberately non-sympathetic wilderness.


Farage has not been ridiculed any more or any less than any Leader and certainly no more than Ed Miliband, Farage slipped last night and his supporters know it, I don't know why you say you are a lone voice :unsure: UKIP have plenty support on here :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

RK0S1RYYBqc

:sleep::sleep::sleep: Yawn.

This three year old clip is 'old hat' and has been 'raised and answered' and 'raised and answered' so many times it has lost any 'news' worthiness or 'shock value' and is tedious.

If any IMPARTIAL person actually listens to everything which Farage actually says about the NHS he is NOT proposing total Privatisation of it nor doing away with it and to claim otherwise is false.

Left Wing extremists protested about BUPA and other Private Health Initiatives for the same reasons which they opposed Grammar Schools and numerous other perfectly sane and reasonable institutions - an inane hatred of anyone they perceive to be financially 'better off' or 'more able' or 'more gifted' than they are, and a desire to 'tear down' anything which serves to measure or register such differences.

The message is 'Not To Aspire' but 'To Lower Those Or That Which Is Higher' - or in Kirk-Speak; 'Don't higher the bridge - lower the water'.

We are not all Mao Tse Tung-style grey, uniformly-clad, standard little entities we are all different.

Academically gifted children should never have to be taught to the standards of the lowest common denominator, and those with hard-earned money - whether saved by making sacrifices in material spending or earned by gaining qualifications and securing suitably well paid jobs, or whether inherited because your ancestors did either, should have THE CHOICE of PAYING for private healthcare if they so wish.

It does not damage the NHS in ANY WAY, in fact quite the opposite, because it helps alleviate the strain on its underfunded over demanded resources - both fiscal and staff wise.

And NO it does not lead to a 'Two Tier System of Healthcare' because the majority of top Health staff will not work in the NHS, choosing instead to emigrate to where the remuneration adequately rewards their skills.

The more people who can afford to take out Private Insurance Cover and who freely elect to do so, then the more the NHS can concentrate on caring for those who cannot afford to - and NHS staff will have more funds with which to elevate the standard of that care.

Farage has said NOTHING wrong in your cliched clip, but actually MAKES UTTER SENSE.

I could write a lengthy post laden with INCONTROVERTIBLE FACTS which will utterly DESTROY any credibility which the LABOUR party has, but will that be fair?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I love how no one mentioned Clegg last night as none of them rate him or see him as credible

[kirklancaster]

Farage has not been ridiculed any more or any less than any Leader and certainly no more than Ed Miliband, Farage slipped last night and his supporters know it, I don't know why you say you are a lone voice :unsure: UKIP have plenty support on here :shrug:

I was not specifically referring to politics Cherie, but other subjects. But I don't agree that Nationally, Farage and UKIP are not subject to more organised propaganda than other parties.

[Phillip!]

Shame Nicola couldn't be in one of the main parties, Nigel got stepped down by her last night