Hopkins views, hate propaganda?

[Kizzy]

'Two things have been clear for years: a) Katie Hopkins has cleverly built a popular, personal brand on provocative views that tend to to demonise people she doesn’t like, and get a rise out of people who don’t like her; b) the best way to respond is not to respond at all.
That’s fine - Hopkins has children to feed and dress - and we can unfollow her, and avoid what she writes and says. Free country, free speech. Just look the other way.

But when a national newspaper, which gives this brand an audience of two million people, happily prints language that might give Hitler pause, is that still OK? Or is it worth responding this time, even if she’ll love every minute?

A bit strong to compare Hopkins to Hitler? Read her column on page 11 of yesterday’s Sun.

“Rescue boats? I’d use gunships to stop migrants”. That was The Sun's headline, written apparently without concern.

She then refers to migrants in Calais who try to board trucks heading to Britain as “a plague of feral humans”.

You have to ask why this woman is given the platform she is, the sun and now LBC... Why?
I know there's a joke during internet conversations that they ultimately lead to Godwins law, but in this instance it does appear to have credence.

“Make no mistake, these migrants are like cockroaches. They might look a bit “Bob Geldof’s Ethiopia circa 1984”, but they are built to survive a nuclear bomb. They are survivors”.
In the environment that led to creation of the Third Reich in Germany, Polish people were seen as "an East European species of cockroach", while Jews were rats.
When Hutu extremists used radio propaganda to incite violence against the Tutsis during the Rwandan Genocide, they called on people to “weed out the cockroaches.”

Even before we consider her words in relation to the legal definition of racial hatred, The Sun has a responsibility to decide where to draw the line.

Personally I feel it is a well orchestrated plan to dehumanise subgroups; refugees, migrants, and also to similar though covert extent the disabled and the unemployed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/katie-hopkins-when-is-enough-enough-10186490.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

or we could just focus on the real problem which is the migrants that we cant keep out?

[Kizzy]

No, in this thread I would like to focus on this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

what the Reductio ad Hitlerum

oh yeah

[Kizzy]

No, the concerns as expressed regarding the hate propaganda exhibited in the mainstream media by this individual.

[lily.]

It's an opinion column. She is entitled to her opinion. You don't have to agree with her. You don't even have to like her. I don't tend to read any of her columns, because she only writes these things for a reaction anyway.

[kirklancaster]

No, the concerns as expressed regarding the hate propaganda exhibited in the mainstream media by this individual.

It is terrible, but I suppose at least she is not inciting people to go out and slaughter the immigrants the way that some of those very same immigrants incited their brothers to go out and slaughter we BRITISH from the pulpits and rostrums of BRITISH MOSQUES and UNIVERSITIES.

I suppose we must at least be thankful for that.

[empire]

britain is a left wing police state, people are demanding that she be jailed for her facebook tweets, that's how bad things are in this loony country.

[kirklancaster]

It's an opinion column. She is entitled to her opinion. You don't have to agree with her. You don't even have to like her. I don't tend to read any of her columns, because she only writes these things for a reaction anyway.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[joeysteele]

I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.

[lily.]

On that note Joey... I don't read The Sun either. It's full of ****e.

[kirklancaster]

I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.

I couldn't agree more Joey - but like Lily, I don't buy the Sun or ever listen, watch or read Hopkins, but also as Lily says, as abhorrent and fake as it all is - Hopkins is entitled to her opinions.

[Jack_]

or we could just focus on the real problem which is the migrants that we cant keep out?

:umm2:

please tell me this is a joke post

[billy123]

:umm2:

please tell me this is a joke postNope we have a right wing extremist amongst us and he isnt the only one sadly. Tibb is a weird little place these days.

[GiRTh]

Nope we have a right wing extremist amongst us and he isnt the only one sadly. Tibb is a weird little place these days.:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:umm2:

please tell me this is a joke post

No there is a real problem with migrants trying to sneak into britain in lorrys. The mayor of calais is at her wits end as are the lorry drivers

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/30/calais-mayor-blames-uk-approach-europe-migrants

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11179302/French-riot-police-in-battle-with-Calais-migrants-in-pictures.html


I would hate to be a lorry driver on that route

[Crimson Dynamo]

30,000 migrants heading for UK are held in Calais: Record numbers have been stopped at borders since April last year


Numbers of migrants detected at the border has doubled in a year
Experts say number who actually reached Britain was likely to be far higher
Not a single person arriving by train or coach is so far counted in and out
Migrants attracted to UK by work, free health care and generous benefits



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/11/22A7D08000000578-0-image-a-2_1423614712748.jpg


Record numbers of illegal migrants are being stopped at UK borders, it was revealed last night. Senior officials said 36,000 unlawful stowaways had been discovered since last April.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2948498/30-000-migrants-heading-UK-held-Calais-Record-numbers-stopped-borders-April-year.html#ixzz3XgJpBgqM

[arista]

I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.


But thats Not the real her
you do know that

[lily.]

Nope we have a right wing extremist amongst us and he isnt the only one sadly. Tibb is a weird little place these days.

"these days"? ... it's always been weird here. lol

[kirklancaster]

30,000 migrants heading for UK are held in Calais: Record numbers have been stopped at borders since April last year


Numbers of migrants detected at the border has doubled in a year
Experts say number who actually reached Britain was likely to be far higher
Not a single person arriving by train or coach is so far counted in and out
Migrants attracted to UK by work, free health care and generous benefits



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/11/22A7D08000000578-0-image-a-2_1423614712748.jpg


Record numbers of illegal migrants are being stopped at UK borders, it was revealed last night. Senior officials said 36,000 unlawful stowaways had been discovered since last April.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2948498/30-000-migrants-heading-UK-held-Calais-Record-numbers-stopped-borders-April-year.html#ixzz3XgJpBgqM

Just as with the 'refugees' and 'asylum seekers' - why are 99.9% of these immigrants MEN?

Actually, I like the term; 'Asylum seeker' better, because if Farage does not do well, then these 'Seekers' will continue to not only find this 'Asylum' but continue to FLOOD INTO IT.

[AnnieK]

I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.

Agreed

[Niamh.]

She's a revolting human being and it makes me sick that she's been given such a platform to spout her bile. These people are human beings and if any of us had the misfortune of being born in the "wrong" side of the world we'd be trying to get somewhere to save ourselves and our families too

[Ninastar]

It's an opinion column. She is entitled to her opinion. You don't have to agree with her. You don't even have to like her. I don't tend to read any of her columns, because she only writes these things for a reaction anyway.

Beautifully said. Totally agree.

[GiRTh]

She's a revolting human being and it makes me sick that she's been given such a platform to spout her bile. These people are human beings and if any of us had the misfortune of being born in the "wrong" side of the world we'd be trying to get somewhere to save ourselves and our families too:clap1:

[Pete.]

If you don't like her views, don't read them

[Ammi]

..sadly a lot of the public who dislike her, also help her thrive in keeping on with her rubbish by giving her the attention she so craves...

[Ammi]

If you don't like her views, don't read them

..and also this..

[GiRTh]

its very noble. but its mostly young men aged 18-25 and from sub saharan africa

I have an article that states most immigrants in the UK come from China (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10480785/Most-immigrants-to-the-UK-now-come-from-China-figures-show.html). How are you sure these are from sub Saharan Africa.?

You said this was a 'problem' if the numbers are low in comparison to immigrants from China then please point out the problem?

[Cherie]

its very noble. but its mostly young men aged 18-25 and from sub saharan africa


Ireland has lots of space so why not ship all of them to Ireland?


Arista had a plan

and its a good one

Tell you what let's ship them to your Scottish rural idyll instead, you are very vocal on immigration for someone who lives in the middle of nowhere

[Rob!]

Thing is with her is that she came across as fairly likeable on CBB and if she's liked, it damages the brand and people are less interested. Expect more articles like this. Take what she says with a pinch of salt.

[Mystic Mock]

or we could just focus on the real problem which is the migrants that we cant keep out?

I think that bigoted idiots that are trying to insight riots on the streets like Hopkins are a much bigger deal personally.

And the immigrants that you should worry about are third worlders, not other Europeans.

[Mystic Mock]

She's a revolting human being and it makes me sick that she's been given such a platform to spout her bile. These people are human beings and if any of us had the misfortune of being born in the "wrong" side of the world we'd be trying to get somewhere to save ourselves and our families too

Whilst I agree that we all would try to break into other countries if we lived in the wrong side of the world, the UK and France cannot be the only countries in Europe that keep taking them as both countries aren't big enough to cope with that amount of people.

[Mystic Mock]

Thing is with her is that she came across as fairly likeable on CBB and if she's liked, it damages the brand and people are less interested. Expect more articles like this. Take what she says with a pinch of salt.

Hopkins was likeable on CBB?:confused:

[bots]

Never read a KH column, twitter post or whatever, and I'm not going to start now. She is a thoroughly unpleasant person.

People in general get excited about immigration when they see injustices and preferential treatment when compared to non immigrants. No one would give a crap about numbers if that issue was addressed and UKIP would simply disappear with a silent Pffff.

[JoshBB]

Honestly with views like this it really makes me hate England. I love our country but the pure hatred in peoples hearts is a real turn-off.

[Northern Monkey]

Hopkins is awful and i don't read anything she writes unless i see it here.She is best avoided and ignored.Saying things like this does'nt help the immigration issue at all,Infact it does more harm imo because people with genuine concerns about immigration get tarred with the same brush as her.

[Kizzy]

It's an opinion column. She is entitled to her opinion. You don't have to agree with her. You don't even have to like her. I don't tend to read any of her columns, because she only writes these things for a reaction anyway.

It's an extremeist opinion, I actually used to admire her for voicing her opinion and supported her during BB, until very recently when those opinions took a darker edge.
They're now worming onto breakfast tables and radio, it for me seems to have a very sinister message that is permeating through society that there are certain groupings that are to be considered as less than human, for me that is very dangerous, it goes beyond her voicing an opinion and becomes inciting hatred.

[Kizzy]

..and also this..

I didn't start this thread to discuss whether or not she was right or wrong in what she said... it was to highlight whether or not she should be given a platform to do it, anyone can say whatever they like on twitter and other social media.
But in national newspapers and topical radio shows?
It's akin to the hate preacher inciting hatred, and it's filtering through due to the mainstream media to more and more people... it's becoming impossible to ignore.
Refugees and asylum seekers are already considered undesirable no matter what is happening in their part of the world, we are being conditioned not to care.
Be they other Europeans, Christians, displaced by war, threatened with genocide they're all treated the same with suspicion and contempt.
Suggestions that we turn a blind eye and ignore it are what make me ashamed to be British.

[Kizzy]

A great article on the subject, am I aware I'm talking to myself? Yes.

'It is no joke when people start talking like this. We are not “giving her what she wants” when we make manifest our disgust. It is not a free speech issue. I’m not saying gag her: I’m saying fight her. Articulate the fellowship, the human empathy, that makes these deaths important. Stop talking about how many children were among the dead, as though only children matter. Start talking about everybody’s life as cherishable, irrespective of anything they might produce.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/katie-hopkins-migrants-vermin-darkest-history-drownings

[AnnieK]

A great article on the subject, am I aware I'm talking to myself? Yes.

'It is no joke when people start talking like this. We are not “giving her what she wants” when we make manifest our disgust. It is not a free speech issue. I’m not saying gag her: I’m saying fight her. Articulate the fellowship, the human empathy, that makes these deaths important. Stop talking about how many children were among the dead, as though only children matter. Start talking about everybody’s life as cherishable, irrespective of anything they might produce.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/katie-hopkins-migrants-vermin-darkest-history-drownings

I've just read the article Kizzy so you're not talking to yourself. I am with you on this, I don't think her "opinions" should be publicised either. They are too extreme and although I still maintain it's an act with her for attention, she is getting worse and it should not be allowed

[Helen 28]

She had her own show on LBC today I listened and couldn't disagree with anything she said.
LBC have said they've had their biggest favourable response to any programme they've ever broadcast today so expect her to become a regular.

[Kizzy]

I've just read the article Kizzy so you're not talking to yourself. I am with you on this, I don't think her "opinions" should be publicised either. They are too extreme and although I still maintain it's an act with her for attention, she is getting worse and it should not be allowed

Thankyou Annie, I didn't listen to her LBC show I will do even though I'm pretty sure I'll regret it :)
The fact her show appears to be popular is a damning indictment of how regressive we're becoming, views like hers on this issue have no place in civilised society as nobody should be considered less than human for merely trying to survive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

She had her own show on LBC today I listened and couldn't disagree with anything she said.
LBC have said they've had their biggest favourable response to any programme they've ever broadcast today so expect her to become a regular.

i am an lbc listener and did not even know about this

:suspect:

i will listen again now

[waterhog]

going to have to dig this out and have a listen.

[Helen 28]

i am an lbc listener and did not even know about this

:suspect:

i will listen again now


I don't think you'll be able to for a while as it was a one-off sitting in for Beverley Turner but I bet she'll be back.

[Kizzy]

There's some here, had a listen and the caller is very forthright in telling her that labeling people as cockroaches is dehumanising them.... What does katie do? cuts her off and tells her to 'go read some more guardian newspaper'.
She's a joke that just isn't funny anymore.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-on-lbc-hear-the-sun-columnist-left-grasping-at-insults-after-one-caller-takes-hateful-migrant-comments-to-task-10187792.html

[Helen 28]

There's some here, had a listen and the caller is very forthright in telling her that labeling people as cockroaches is dehumanising them.... What does katie do? cuts her off and tells her to 'go read some more guardian newspaper'.
She's a joke that just isn't funny anymore.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-on-lbc-hear-the-sun-columnist-left-grasping-at-insults-after-one-caller-takes-hateful-migrant-comments-to-task-10187792.html

That caller is Diane Abbott.

[Kizzy]

That caller is Diane Abbott.

It's a lady called Ronkey * cue mocking comments*

[Helen 28]

It's a lady called Ronkey * cue mocking comments*

Definitely the racist Diane Abbott in disguise..

[hijaxers]

There is an online petition at change.org to have said trout face removed as a columnist on the Sun newspaper (shyte paper - would have thought it was beneath her highness to work there)

[Kizzy]

Definitely the racist Diane Abbott in disguise..

In disguise... Could you see what she was wearing through the radio?

[GiRTh]

In disguise... Could you see what she was wearing through the radio?:joker:

[waterhog]

does not matter what she dresses up like - she will always be the same underneath - desperate for air time.

well done katie - one more comment from me - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[empire]

diane abbott is a racist anti white anti english, scumbag,

[Marsh.]

In disguise... Could you see what she was wearing through the radio?

:joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

diane abbott is a racist anti white anti english, scumbag,

It wasn't Diane Abbott :/

[Niamh.]

Katie Hopkins and The Sun editor David Dinsmore reported to police for incitement to racial hatred following migrant boat column

Katie Hopkins and the editor of The Sun, David Dinsmore, have been reported to the Metropolitan police for incitement to racial hatred.

It follows the publication of a column by Hopkins in the tabloid on 17 April, in which she described migrants desperate to reach Britain following humanitarian disasters in their own countries as “cockroaches” and suggested the government deploy “gunships” to stop them landing on shore.

The complaint was made by the Society of Black Lawyers directly to the Metropolitan Police Commissioners Office, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, at 4.05pm on 20 April.

It reads:


It reads:

Dear Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe,

I hope this email finds you well. You will recall that I was an independent member of the Metropolitan Police Authority (2000 to 2008) and Vice Chair for a period of two years during part of your earlier career at the MPS.

As former Chair of the MPS Hate Crime Forum we did on occasions report incidents of incitement to racial hatred directly to the Commissioners Office for urgent action. More recently as SBL we have done so with anti-Semitic and/or racist comments in the football arena.

The recent comments by the Sun journalist Katie Hopkins, authorised for publication by her Editor and senior staff, are sadly some of the most offensive, xenophobic and racist comments I have read in a British newspaper for some years. These comments comparing the African migrants fleeing Libya to “cockroaches” , almost certainly all “trafficked” persons facing intimidation, violence and extortion at the point of departure represent some of the most vulnerable people in international law at the present time. Many will have legitimate claims for asylum under the 1951 Geneva Convention.


The use of this term employs a word used with devastating results to describe the Tutsi minority and Hutu moderates during the 1994 Rwanda genocide when they were referred to by those responsible for the genocide as “cockroaches”. This fact is well known to journalists and is a matter of historical record proved by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) in several judgments.

The Society of Black Lawyers (SBL) therefore requests that this matter is investigated as a matter of urgency under the Public Order Act 1986. I am aware that this section requires some intention but given the scale of the tragedy currently unfolding, the likelihood some some of these migrants may already be in the UK having fled during previous months or likely to land here in due course these comments can amount to incitement to racial hatred.

We are in the process of writing formally to the International Criminal Court to petition for an investigation into these comments under the provisions of incitement to commit crimes against humanity.

Given the huge circulation of these comments in the Sun and in the media generally, the propensity for racial violence against people of African descent in the UK is obvious. We request that these matters be investigated as a matter of urgency and the case file be passed to the CPS for a decision to be made as to the merits of a prosecution.

We will submit a more detailed letter in the course of this evening but would request that your office makes a public statement about the need to avoid such comments being made by any in the media whilst this matter is the subject of a criminal investigation.

Our complaint is against the journalist herself, the Editor of the Sun newspaper and other editorial staff involved in the publication of this commentary. We would request that you obtain a transcript of her interview that we understand was conducted on LBC radio on Sunday morning, 19th April 2015.

The journalist concerned sought to justify her comments in that radio interview so may provide evidence of her state of mind.

Yours sincerely,

Peter

D. Peter Herbert O.B.E.

Chair Society of Black Lawyers

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-and-the-sun-editor-reported-to-police-for-incitement-to-racial-hatred-following-migrant-boat-column-10190549.html?cmpid=facebook-post

[Niamh.]

I agree Nedusa - I have NO time for Katie Hopkins but I wonder how many times the man who reported her to the Metropolitan police - Chair of the Society of Black Lawyers, D Peter Herbert O.B.E. - reported Islamic Hate preachers such as Anjem Choudary, Mizanur Rahman, and Abu Hamza?

As I said before, Kopkins is not actually inciting people to go out and slaughter these immigrants the way the above Islamics daily urged their followers to go out and kill British people (among others).

Strange country this now with strange sensibilities.

Because he's not reported Anjem Choudary, Mizanur Rahman, and Abu Hamza, his points about this particular incident don't matter? You could say that about anybody who reports/complains about anything

[kirklancaster]

Because he's not reported Anjem Choudary, Mizanur Rahman, and Abu Hamza, his points about this particular incident don't matter? You could say that about anybody who reports/complains about anything

No - I did NOT say that Niamh.

I don't even know if he did or didn't report Choudary and company, but all I was saying is that there have been FAR greater HATE crimes than Hopkins one, perpetrated on a daily basis in the UK for years, yet we do not hear of similar letters from The Society of Black Lawyers to the Metropolitan Police - or at least I can find no examples.

One offence does not negate another, but though this 'letter' is definitely warranted - it's motives appear rather partisan to me.

[Niamh.]

No - I did NOT say that Niamh.

I don't even know if he did or didn't report Choudary and company, but all I was saying is that there have been FAR greater HATE crimes than Hopkins one, perpetrated on a daily basis in the UK for years, yet we do not hear of similar letters from The Society of Black Lawyers to the Metropolitan Police - or at least I can find no examples.

One offence does not negate another, but though this 'letter' is definitely warranted - it's motives appear rather partisan to me.

Why bring it up then if not to try to discredit the man and his complaint about Katie Hopkins and the Sun Editor?

[kirklancaster]

Why bring it up then if not to try to discredit the man and his complaint about Katie Hopkins and the Sun Editor?

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean? What I meant by my post was; does this 'Black Lawyer' find Hopkins comments against immigrants more offensive than Immigrant Islamic Preacher's Hate Speeches against the British? And if so, WHY? when Hopkins comments - though offensive - are far more benign in comparison than Choudary's or Hamza's?

Hate Speech is Hate Speech, and I would find D. Peter Herbert's reporting of Hopkins far more acceptable and 'noble' if I was assured that he had been as equally moved and incensed by the far more serious Hate Speeches of Hamza and company and had similarly reported them.

In a similar vein, I am a Christian, but I find ISIS beheadings of ANY innocent victims evil and atrocious - no matter what the Nationality, Colour, Race or Faith of those victims - and I have posted as much accordingly.

Just my opinion.

[Niamh.]

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean?

I mean, why was you immediate response to the article I posted to say

"I have NO time for Katie Hopkins but I wonder how many times the man who reported her to the Metropolitan police - Chair of the Society of Black Lawyers, D Peter Herbert O.B.E. - reported Islamic Hate preachers such as Anjem Choudary, Mizanur Rahman, and Abu Hamza?"

Instead of actually commenting on what the man was complaining about, you choose to comment on what he was not complaining about instead?

[kirklancaster]

I mean, why was you immediate response to the article I posted to say

"I have NO time for Katie Hopkins but I wonder how many times the man who reported her to the Metropolitan police - Chair of the Society of Black Lawyers, D Peter Herbert O.B.E. - reported Islamic Hate preachers such as Anjem Choudary, Mizanur Rahman, and Abu Hamza?"

Instead of actually commenting on what the man was complaining about, you choose to comment on what he was not complaining about instead?

Sorry Niamh, but I edited my post to add an explanation and I think it crossed with your response. I had already stated several times that Hopkins was wrong and condemned her for it so I had no need to comment on the article.

[Kizzy]

It's saddening even the lawyers taking action have to categorise themselves as black or white, it's not a race issue it's an humanitarian one imo.

[Niamh.]

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean? What I meant by my post was; does this 'Black Lawyer' find Hopkins comments against immigrants more offensive than Immigrant Islamic Preacher's Hate Speeches against the British? And if so, WHY? when Hopkins comments - though offensive - are far more benign in comparison than Choudary's or Hamza's?

Hate Speech is Hate Speech, and I would find D. Peter Herbert's reporting of Hopkins far more acceptable and 'noble' if I was assured that he had been as equally moved and incensed by the far more serious Hate Speeches of Hamza and company and had similarly reported them.

In a similar vein, I am a Christian, but I find ISIS beheadings of ANY innocent victims evil and atrocious - no matter what the Nationality, Colour, Race or Faith of those victims - and I have posted as much accordingly.

Just my opinion.

Maybe he doesn't think it's "more offensive" though but people pick their causes. Would you accuse someone who does alot of work for animal charities of not valuing humans as much? It's the same difference imo This "black lawyer" may feel more personally offended by this. You say you "I am a Christian, but I find ISIS beheadings of ANY innocent victims evil and atrocious - no matter what the Nationality, Colour, Race or Faith of those victims" and I don't doubt you mean that for a second but I still hear you speak about Christians more so and there's nothing wrong with that either as it's closer to home for you

[kirklancaster]

Maybe he doesn't think it's "more offensive" though but people pick their causes. Would you accuse someone who does alot of work for animal charities of not valuing humans as much? It's the same difference imo This "black lawyer" may feel more personally offended by this. You say you "I am a Christian, but I find ISIS beheadings of ANY innocent victims evil and atrocious - no matter what the Nationality, Colour, Race or Faith of those victims" and I don't doubt you mean that for a second but I still hear you speak about Christians more so and there's nothing wrong with that either as it's closer to home for you

Fair point Niamh.

[kirklancaster]

It's saddening even the lawyers taking action have to categorise themselves as black or white, it's not a race issue it's an humanitarian one imo.

They CALL THEMSELVES 'THE SOCIETY OF BLACK LAWYERS' - no one else gave them that title or FORCED it upon them.

And it's extremely illuminating as to just how closely defined certain 'HUMANITARIAN' issues are on here by 'race' or 'religion'.

[Kizzy]

They CALL THEMSELVES 'THE SOCIETY OF BLACK LAWYERS' - no one else gave them that title or FORCED it upon them.

And it's extremely illuminating as to just how closely defined certain 'HUMANITARIAN' issues are on here by 'race' or 'religion'.

I know they did, you don't have to embolden it for me I read it in the article Niamh posted thankyou.

Yes it is illuminating, how seemingly when there is a break in the eternal loop of 'white, Christian, European' then there is a crisis to even see the situation as an humanitarian issue, as the people involved are considered as less than human.

[kirklancaster]

I know they did, you don't have to embolden it for me I read it in the article Niamh posted thankyou.

Yes it is illuminating, how seemingly when there is a break in the eternal loop of 'white, Christian, European' then there is a crisis to even see the situation as an humanitarian issue, as the people involved are considered as less than human.

I'm not fully with you as to what you mean, but what I meant is; that there is a distinct pattern on here, that the louder voices are heard in greater numbers in defence of 'Open Door' immigration and in protesting against those who do not share that view, and in lamenting the death of drowned immigrants of unstated faiths than in lamenting shot and beheaded Christians, and in protesting against the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants, than there has been in protesting against the far graver and more genuinely evil Hate Speeches and incitements to murder against UK citizens by immigrant iSLAMIC Preachers.

It seems to me that such 'Humanitarianism' is truly highly selective.

[joeysteele]

My answer would be that the Sun be removed from society and take all the vile columnists it employs, whose rotten unnecessary and despicable comments it then prints, with it too.

Nothing will likely come of it but I am glad someones patience has finally worn out as to this 'inhuman' woman.
Good on him and good on the petition too that is also condemning her.

[Niamh.]

My answer would be that the Sun be removed from society and take all the vile columnists it employs, whose rotten unnecessary and despicable comments it then prints, with it too.

Nothing will likely come of it but I am glad someones patience has finally worn out as to this 'inhuman' woman.
Good on him and good on the petition too that is also condemning her.

:clap2:

[Kizzy]

I'm not fully with you as to what you mean, but what I meant is; that there is a distinct pattern on here, that the louder voices are heard in greater numbers in defence of 'Open Door' immigration and in protesting against those who do not share that view, and in lamenting the death of drowned immigrants of unstated faiths than in lamenting shot and beheaded Christians, and in protesting against the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants, than there has been in protesting against the far graver and more genuinely evil Hate Speeches and incitements to murder against UK citizens by immigrant iSLAMIC Preachers.

It seems to me that such 'Humanitarianism' is truly highly selective.

No I don't agree that any 'open door' immigration voices are louder at all as that is Europe wide only and nothing to do with this at all you're simplifying the issue.
The attitude to death is what defines your humanity.

[Kizzy]

My answer would be that the Sun be removed from society and take all the vile columnists it employs, whose rotten unnecessary and despicable comments it then prints, with it too.

Nothing will likely come of it but I am glad someones patience has finally worn out as to this 'inhuman' woman.
Good on him and good on the petition too that is also condemning her.

:worship:

[kirklancaster]

No I don't agree that any 'open door' immigration voices are louder at all as that is Europe wide only and nothing to do with this at all you're simplifying the issue.
The attitude to death is what defines your humanity.

NO - You are misunderstanding what I wrote:

I did not compare 'Open Door' Immigration with 'This' - I said: "that there is a distinct pattern on here, that the louder voices are heard in greater numbers in defence of 'Open Door' immigration and in protesting against those who do not share that view," --- ie; one complete thought seperated by a comma. Then I went on: "and in lamenting the death of drowned immigrants of unstated faiths than in lamenting shot and beheaded Christians," -- as another complete thought separated by a comma, and finally; "and in protesting against the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants, than there has been in protesting against the far graver and more genuinely evil Hate Speeches and incitements to murder against UK citizens by immigrant iSLAMIC Preachers." -- My final full thought ended with a 'period'.

So, there is no comparing of 'European wide' issue with any 'world-wide issue at all - just three separate 'thoughts' given as examples in one sentence.

And whilst: 'The attitude to death is what defines your humanity' sounds profound and grand, it means nothing to me and does not address the points which I made in the post you are responding to.

My 'humanity' extends to all innocent human lives taken by murdering cowards and to all injustices, and transcends all personal politics - as my posts confirm.

[Kizzy]

NO - You are misunderstanding what I wrote:

I did not compare 'Open Door' Immigration with 'This' - I said: "that there is a distinct pattern on here, that the louder voices are heard in greater numbers in defence of 'Open Door' immigration and in protesting against those who do not share that view," --- ie; one complete thought seperated by a comma. Then I went on: "and in lamenting the death of drowned immigrants of unstated faiths than in lamenting shot and beheaded Christians," -- as another complete thought separated by a comma, and finally; "and in protesting against the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants, than there has been in protesting against the far graver and more genuinely evil Hate Speeches and incitements to murder against UK citizens by immigrant iSLAMIC Preachers." -- My final full thought ended with a 'period'.

So, there is no comparing of 'European wide' issue with any 'world-wide issue at all - just three separate 'thoughts' given as examples in one sentence.

And whilst: 'The attitude to death is what defines your humanity' sounds profound and grand, it means nothing to me and does not address the points which I made in the post you are responding to.

My 'humanity' extends to all innocent human lives taken by murdering cowards and to all injustices, and transcends all personal politics - as my posts confirm.

I don't wish to address all your points and redefine my position on this subject as it is already crystal clear what and who I am referring to in the context of the thread.
If you would like to continue the discussion that is the topic of the thread as stated in the OP I would be happy to hear it.

[Helen 28]

Yes thats the Mirror Paper

The Mirror has posted some awful stuff over the years but that will be fine because it's a labour paper.

I remember the faked front page about British soldiers abusing an Iraqi, totally faked by the Mirror as they've traditionally had a downer on the armed forces.

The only good thing to come out of that was the horrible Piers Morgan was sacked.

[arista]

The Mirror has posted some awful stuff over the years but that will be fine because it's a labour paper.

I remember the faked front page about British soldiers abusing an Iraqi, totally faked by the Mirror as they've traditionally had a downer on the armed forces.

The only good thing to come out of that was the horrible Piers Morgan was sacked.


Bang On Right Helen

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Mirror is awful but so is the express and its weather lies

I dont mind the currant bun

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like the I newspaper and The Herald

[Helen 28]

The Mirror is awful but so is the express and its weather lies

I dont mind the currant bun

The Express do seem to have an obsession with the weather, and they nearly always get it wrong.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Katie Hopkins on LBC: Listen to caller taking The Sun columnist to task over migrant comments

Hopkins serving this lefty her ass on a plate

listen here

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-on-lbc-hear-the-sun-columnist-left-grasping-at-insults-after-one-caller-takes-her-task-over-hateful-migrant-comments-10187792.html

[Kizzy]

Katie Hopkins on LBC: Listen to caller taking The Sun columnist to task over migrant comments

Hopkins serving this lefty her ass on a plate

listen here

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-on-lbc-hear-the-sun-columnist-left-grasping-at-insults-after-one-caller-takes-her-task-over-hateful-migrant-comments-10187792.html

I posted this yesterday, Hopkins comments to her caller were childish.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I posted this yesterday, Hopkins comments to her caller were childish.

beg your pudden



the caller had no solution and made pointless correlations to OZ and Colonial USA.

Hopkins was on about what to DO but the caller just wanted to get the moral high ground.

[Kizzy]

beg your pudden



the caller had no solution and made pointless correlations to OZ and Colonial USA.

Hopkins was on about what to DO but the caller just wanted to get the moral high ground.

No Hopkins tried to backtrack on her gunboats comments by attempting to align her views with those of Australia and it failed, everyone knew exactly what she meant.

[Livia]

Why does anyone care what Hopkins has to say? She's a gobsh1te. Pre-Internet, d/ckheads like her would have to go to Speakers Corner to get an audience, now, they have the opportunity to spill their bile to a MASSIVE audience many of whom seem to be drinking in her nonsense. Here is another thread discussing what this woman thinks. I don't care... let me know when someone's topped her so I can avoid her "RIP" thread.

[Niamh.]

Why does anyone care what Hopkins has to say? She's a gobsh1te. Pre-Internet, d/ckheads like her would have to go to Speakers Corner to get an audience, now, they have the opportunity to spill their bile to a MASSIVE audience many of whom seem to be drinking in her nonsense. Here is another thread discussing what this woman thinks. I don't care... let me know when someone's topped her so I can avoid her "RIP" thread.

Whilst I agree with everything you've said here, I think the issue is, should she be allowed to spout that hate filled bile through a regular column in a national Newspaper?

[lostalex]

She's the British Ann Coulter. the only way she is successful is by how much outrage she causes. so stop being outraged!

and just for the record, ann coulter does it better, and compared to Ann Coulter, Katie is FAT!

[arista]

She's the British Ann Coulter. the only way she is successful is by how much outrage she causes. so stop being outraged!


Yes Ann
is not so much around now

[GiRTh]

She's the British Ann Coulter. the only way she is successful is by how much outrage she causes. so stop being outraged!Agree with this. I've said so a few times on the forum and like Coulter she cant be taken seriously. Ignore and she will definitely go away.

[Livia]

Whilst I agree with everything you've said here, I think the issue is, should she be allowed to spout that hate filled bile through a regular column in a national Newspaper?

No, of course not. Who on Earth would buy a newspaper to read a Katie Hopkins column? It would be an incentive for me not to buy the paper. The editor ought to be horse-whipped.

[arista]

Whilst I agree with everything you've said here, I think the issue is, should she be allowed to spout that hate filled bile through a regular column in a national Newspaper?


If its Legal

Yes

[Niamh.]

No, of course not. Who on Earth would buy a newspaper to read a Katie Hopkins column? It would be an incentive for me not to buy the paper. The editor ought to be horse-whipped.

:laugh:

Indeed

[Nedusa]

The UK, Liberal is not a dirty word despite what the right wing media tell you Nedusa, I am far from naive thankyou, take the plank from your own eye maybe?
The feeling among the families of migrants is always the strongest on immigration strangely.

I cannot help but keep repeating myself, but I will say it again for you and for Girth, I don't have a problem with controlled immigration the likes UKIP are suggesting. Based on the Aussie system eg.. where the Country takes the people with skills it needs at any given point in time.

We all (myself included) have come from immigrants at some point, that's not the problem , the problem is rapid uncontrolled immigration into a small and already overstretched Island where the infrastructure is already full to bursting.

That is why we cannot accept thousands upon thousands of new immigrants from Sub Saharan Africa. People who think it's the Holy Grail to come and live in Britain.

It isn't, the UK has more than it's fair share of problems, I mean where are all these people supposed to live ? there is no Social housing for the people already here in fact we already have a vast shortage of housing.

So where are all these new immigrants going to stay ? Do you have a spare room ? perhaps you could house a couple or they could camp in your garden. I mean it's ridiculous.......

This is exactly why I support UKIP and their main policy of exiting the EU with its dangerous open doors policy to immigration.

The sooner we exit the better, and the sooner we double or triple the numbers in our UK Border Control service the better.

This one issue is so so serious I cannot overstate it.....

[kirklancaster]

The UK, Liberal is not a dirty word despite what the right wing media tell you Nedusa, I am far from naive thankyou, take the plank from your own eye maybe?
The feeling among the families of migrants is always the strongest on immigration strangely.

The extreme Left are the biggest danger to this country's future NOT the extreme Right - in my opinion.

[Toy Soldier]

The extreme Left are the biggest danger to this country's future NOT the extreme Right - in my opinion.
Of course it is Kirk, because you would personally be happy living under a right wing regime. What you're talking about is not the "biggest danger to this country" it's "the biggest danger to you personally regarding what you want this country to be".

[GiRTh]

Of course it is Kirk, because you would personally be happy living under a right wing regime. What you're talking about is not the "biggest danger to this country" it's "the biggest danger to you personally regarding what you want this country to be".:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Girth what do you think we should do about sub-saharan boat migrants?

[GiRTh]

Girth what do you think we should do about sub-saharan boat migrants?Give me some figures and I'll assess how much of an ACTUAL problem it is. You DID call it a 'problem' the other day didn't you? Show me how much of a problem it is and then I'll answer.

[Kizzy]

The extreme Left are the biggest danger to this country's future NOT the extreme Right - in my opinion.

So you support the far right opinion?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Interesting post on that Independent article link

"Much as I detest the woman, Katie is right. Europe is being swamped by these migrants. It is time to address the root cause of why they are leaving their home countries. Personally I am fed up with not being able to walk down a street in Rome without being constantly pestered and harangued, sometimes very aggressively by migrants selling rubbish on the streets. In Milan recently, by the cathedral, I could not walk more than five yards before having articles pushed into my face, and when I politely refused to buy, being followed and shouted at by the migrant selling them. In a recent interview on British television, a reporter questioned the migrants as to why they were coming to Europe and to a man they all said for benefits, and money. Not one said they had left their country due to war, famine etc. Enough is enough. This endless migration should be stopped, and the root causes examined and remedied."

[Crimson Dynamo]

Give me some figures and I'll assess how much of an ACTUAL problem it is. You DID call it a 'problem' the other day didn't you? Show me how much of a problem it is and then I'll answer.

Mediterranean migrant death toll '30 times higher than last year':


More than 1,750 migrants perished in the Mediterranean since the start of the year - more than 30 times higher than during the same period of 2014, says the International Organisation for Migration

[GiRTh]

Mediterranean migrant death toll '30 times higher than last year':


More than 1,750 migrants perished in the Mediterranean since the start of the year - more than 30 times higher than during the same period of 2014, says the International Organisation for MigrationHow does that affect this country?

[joeysteele]

I presume that all the readers of the Sun can also be called rotten, vile, and despicable in your view.

You presume totally incorrectly then.

People buy the Sun and never read it, I know loads of epopel who buy it read the TV page, the problem page,then bin it.
They couldn't tell you a thing it says.

I know people who only buy it on a saturday,take out the TV mag bit and then throw it out.
It is the one of the,if not the cheapest of the papers in the main.

So no I do not think that any Sun readers are despicable at all, only the people who edit and print the Sun.
Some of my closest friends buy the Sun, I don't know one of them who takes what it says seriously though,or would act on what it says either.

Most say they buy it because it is a laugh.
However, no, you were wrong to presume as you did about me,and it is never wise really to presume as to how anyone else thinks or behaves either with respect,when you don't know them either.

[joeysteele]

Of course it is Kirk, because you would personally be happy living under a right wing regime. What you're talking about is not the "biggest danger to this country" it's "the biggest danger to you personally regarding what you want this country to be".

Very well said, I don't get this far left nonsense at all and the determination of demonisation of same as to them being a danger, it seems the extreme and uncompromising actually come from the far right more than the left.

The left seem to want to stand up for injustice, those who cannot speak for themselves, to be in unity with more organisations of the World than to be separatist.

In the UK which has at present one of the most extreme and heartless right wing govts; for me the sooner the 'left' can take over the better.

You would think it only had to be that those powerful and rich know better and also should be the only ones allowed to run the Country.
Not a one party state but government that 'only' can come from the right and far right.
Hardly democratic.
That the views of the right are totally valid and those on the left should be silent,absolutely pathetic.

[Redway]

Why the hell does anyone still pay attention to this stupid bint.

[kirklancaster]

And what, exactly, do you think people's "real motives" are? Do enlighten us. I'm sure everyone wants to know what their opinions are. It must be very confusing for those of us who don't.

What are you talking about TS? I KNOW people's OPINIONS by what they write on here????

Motives are NOT opinion.

Left Wing members have different MOTIVES for expressing a viewpoint of the same subject or incident as Right Wing members have for expressing polar opposite of the same subject or incident - that's human nature.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy which sees some members seize the 'humanitarian' moral high ground and start lamenting, weeping and wailing when immigrants die in an accident, but do NOT express any of the same 'humanitarian' grief and concern when IS shoots and beheads innocent victims - especially Christians.

I'm talking about the uproar and 'moral' indignation when a ****** attention seeker like Katie Hopkins utters a preposterous anti-immigrant comment whilst those who are wailing loudest in reaction to it are notable by their silence or muted response whenever British-Based Islamic Hate Preachers have consistently spouted far more evil bile and urged Muslims to kill anyone who is NOT a Muslim.

I'm talking about the predictable over-reaction of the 'Lefties'on here in lambasting anyone who DARES to suggest or state that:

1) It is economic suicide for a small island like the UK to continue to allow in unchecked numbers of immigrants at a time when we are in debt, all our services are at breaking point, we have huge numbers of unemployed, and there are already over one million people waiting for a home to live in which does not exist.

2) It is highly dangerous and reckless for a small island like the UK to continue to allow in unchecked numbers of immigrants at a time when Islamic terrorists are decimating half the globe in wars and committing highly orchestrated atrocities in just about every Western Democratic country of the world, and when we have been WARNED by the Leaders of such terrorist organisations that they are secreting their 'Soldiers of Allah' in amongst those incoming immigrants, and when the it is continually emerging that the quick succession of long ensconced immigrants who have left the UK to join up with IS, have - all along - been covert members of terrorist groups.

3) It is banal to continue to be a 'member' of a corrupt, inefficient organisation such as the EU, when the evidence of over 40 years clearly and incontrovertibly proves that our membership has had catastrophic results for us. This includes total decimation of our Farming and Fishing industries, the loss of sovereignty of our Judicial system, control of our borders and a host of other controls. In addition, there has been an annual trade deficit and cost of membership of from £15 to 20 BILLION pounds.

4) That there are people in receipt of Benefits who are able to work, not ill, and are claiming fraudulently.

There are dozens of more examples but there is no point elaborating because I think you will get the message.

Whenever anyone has the nerve to suggest any of the above TRUTHS, the Lefties on here POUNCE upon them in numbers and scream in protest, and the MO is ALWAYS the same: What is being protested about is TWISTED:

A) A plea for CONTROLLED IMMIGRATION is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted as a call for a TOTAL BAN on immigration, and the usual tripe accusations of 'RACIST', XENOPHOBIC' and/or 'INHUMANE' immediately follow.

B) Any claim that some BENEFIT SCROUNGERS exist is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted as an ATTACK ON THE POOREST AND MOST VULNERABLE ELEMENTS OF SOCIETY.

C) Any call for the UK to quit the EU based upon 40 years of proof of it being a catastrophic failure is wrongly misinterpreted and misquoted and those suggesting we quit are called "Little Englanders" and worse.

You and others like you can say what you want - that is a democratic right on a forum in a democracy, but because our views do not align with yours DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT AND US WRONG.

In fact - no matter how much you write as though you have a monopoly on the absolute truth - the FACTS and EVIDENCE supports what WE contend, and should you wish to enter into a REASONED and CIVIL DEBATE on this, I for one will be happy to oblige you.

As a footnote; I see NOTHING in my post here which breeches Tibb rules - no more than any other post preceding it - I hope therefore, that this response, which has been written in answer to a request by ToySoldier himself, will not be removed or lead to me being infracted. It is fair comment and politely couched.

[joeysteele]

In my opinion, the biggest danger to the UK as a whole and its future anywhere, actually comes from the right of politics now.
For me it would be utter madness to leave the EU and all the uncertainties that would create afterwards.

The argument for the Scots was we were better together, for them to go independent would be disastrous for Scotland with all the uncertainties that would entail.

Yet these same parties and people would take the UK out of the EU,regardless.
That is the real danger to the UK, not in any way coming from parties of the left or people who hold left wing views either.
When the left of politics did think that way, they were branded loonys.

Now it is the right wing parties who think that way, well as I have said before, what then does that now say about them.
probably it should say the same as to much of what is thought of Katie Hopkins and her views really,in my opinion.

[kirklancaster]

Honestly Kirk you're as guilty of bias as any number of "lefties" (which is, by the way, an insulting and patronising slur) on here. There is a massive gulf between saying "there is a problem with immigration controls and it needs to be looked at" and stating that people from sub-saharran Africa are "savages who would rape and murder your family in a heartbeat" (reasoned or civil debate went out of the window right about there) . Or, for that matter, the comments of Ms Hopkins herself that they are "cockroaches" who deserve to be blown out of the water. But do you ever pick up on the latter comments and point out how ludicrous they are? No. Never. And yet you lambast others for "refusing to condemn" this, that and the other.

Also kirk... I honestly have to say... I don't see anyone on this forum consistently and determinedly posting as if they have a "monopoly on the truth" other than... Err... You. Even going so far as to state and congratulate how "intelligent" anyone who happens to agree with you must be (thereby inferring that anyone who does not is less intelligent, and presumably therefore more likely to be "wrong"). So I'll just flip it right back at you:

Just because our beliefs do not align with yours, does not make YOU right and US wrong.

This will continue to be the case, no matter how many "really really long posts" full of dubious, one-sided "facts" and supposed "evidence" you bellow at us.

First of all TS - I have never said that; "people from sub-saharran Africa are "savages who would rape and murder your family in a heartbeat"

Secondly, for you to state:

"Or, for that matter, the comments of Ms Hopkins herself that they are "cockroaches" who deserve to be blown out of the water. But do you ever pick up on the latter comments and point out how ludicrous they are? No. Never. And yet you lambast others for "refusing to condemn" this, that and the other."

is utter nonsense and patently untrue:

A) "It is terrible"

B) Originally Posted by joeysteele
JOEY STEELE'S POST: I just hate everything about this woman and all she claims to stand for, as for her outlet for her total nastiness,insulting and controversial tripe, she and the SUN are well suited to each other.[/B]
It is absolutely no surprise to me at all that publication prints her vile trash, since it is full of it itself in its own editorials.

I couldn't agree more Joey - but like Lily, I don't buy the Sun or ever listen, watch or read Hopkins, but also as Lily says, as abhorrent and fake as it all is - Hopkins is entitled to her opinions.

C) I have NO time for Katie Hopkins

D) Hopkins comments - though offensive

E)I had already stated several times that Hopkins was wrong and condemned her for it

F) the imbecilic views of an attention seeker such as Katie Hopkins against immigrants,

G) LIVIA'S POST: "Why does anyone care what Hopkins has to say? She's a gobsh1te. Pre-Internet, d/ckheads like her would have to go to Speakers Corner to get an audience, now, they have the opportunity to spill their bile to a MASSIVE audience many of whom seem to be drinking in her nonsense. Here is another thread discussing what this woman thinks. I don't care... let me know when someone's topped her so I can avoid her "RIP" thread."

My response: "I genuinely applaud what you say Liv"

How many more do you need? Now those condemnations are from just this thread, which is FAR MORE than I have ever witnessed YOU post on threads where innocents have been beheaded by IS, or where Hate Preachers have spouted incitements to violence, so you are WRONG to claim it is .

As for: "Also kirk... I honestly have to say... I don't see anyone on this forum consistently and determinedly posting as if they have a "monopoly on the truth" other than... Err... You. Even going so far as to state and congratulate how "intelligent" anyone who happens to agree with you must be (thereby inferring that anyone who does not is less intelligent, and presumably therefore more likely to be "wrong"). So I'll just flip it right back at you:"

I am one of the few on here who usually actually posts corroborating evidence to support what I write. So your contentions above are totally groundless.

[Niamh.]

I've deleted over half of this thread and am going to reopen it but if it descends into the same sniping, insulting, racist and xenophobic mess that it was again then it's going to be permanently closed

[Livia]

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

[Niamh.]

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

:laugh: I think you're right

[Toy Soldier]

I get the feeling that Hopkins would be delighted with the way this thread turned out.

Doubt it, Hopkins doesn't like censorship :hmph:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I miss all the racist xenophobia this thread once had

:flutter:

[GiRTh]

The thread doesnt make sense anymore may as well delete it.

[Niamh.]

The thread is reopened for any further developments with the article Girth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jamelia is the new hopkins

[Niamh.]

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

[Toy Soldier]

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

[Niamh.]

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

Well go on then :idc:

[Kizzy]

Any posts I may have missed that you find offensive, report them please

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

[Niamh.]

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

You do that Kizzy

[kirklancaster]

Niamh I find the post below offensive and would like to report it.

:joker::joker::joker: It's a cracker.

[kirklancaster]

I think you've gone a bit delete happy on the thread I wanted to know who agreed with her being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' and everything that showed many do has gone.
It's not a debate anymore.
I'll just post links to articles as any debate might be considered offensive.

Kizzy - I think it's been FAIRLY deleted, but no one actually DID agree with Hopkins being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' anyway, so that part's not missing.

[kirklancaster]

I miss all the racist xenophobia this thread once had

:flutter:

:laugh: Nutter.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy - I think it's been FAIRLY deleted, but no one actually DID agree with Hopkins being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' anyway, so that part's not missing.

I don't agree, due to the sterilisation of the thread there's no point discussing it further and any examples have gone.
So draw a line under it I want the thread to remain open thank you.

[GiRTh]

I don't agree, due to the sterilisation of the thread there's no point discussing it further and any examples have gone.
So draw a line under it I want the thread to remain open thank you.I agree. When one of the main posters thinks its been editted fairly then there must be something seriously wrong. Ask for the thread to be deleted the mods delete aristas threads when he complains.

[Niamh.]

I agree too. When one of the main posters thinks its been editted fairly then there must be something seriously wrong. Ask for the thread to be deleted the mods delete aristas threads when he complains.

I have no problem what so ever deleting this thread if Kizzy wants me to, the only reason I reopened it was because Kizzy wanted to post up dates on the story which she can still do. i won't how ever be leaving the arguing and sniping and some of the more offensive posts :)

[MTVN]

There's six pages of discussion over her comments on here, the thread has hardly been completely wiped clean. Is the discussion on these pages not adequate or is it only considered real debate when we have arguments and offensive comments flying everywhere

[Kizzy]

I did ask for it to be reopened as it had in my absence descended into the usual off topic rants.
I didn't ask for it to be removed of all opinion that countered my own, which appears to be what's happened, I do want it to be left open thanks.

[Josy]

I did ask for it to be reopened as it had in my absence descended into the usual off topic rants.
I didn't ask for it to be removed of all opinion that countered my own, which appears to be what's happened, I do want it to be left open thanks.

Any posts been removed were done so because they contained arguing, sniping and offensive comments.

Back on topic now please.

[kirklancaster]

I have no problem what so ever deleting this thread if Kizzy wants me to, the only reason I reopened it was because Kizzy wanted to post up dates on the story which she can still do. i won't how ever be leaving the arguing and sniping and some of the more offensive posts :)

I have suffered previously from having many posts removed - a lot of which I did not agree with because I felt they were inoccuous - but I did not cxomplain, as I have not complained on this thread. It is however more than unfair that KIZZY can get the thread re-opened at will then KIZZY can apparently have the entire thread DELETED if SHE wants?

What about the rest of us forum members who take time and trouble to post?

The discussion on this thread did not follow in a smooth chronological sequence - as it rarely does on any thread - so the gist of the discussion has not been severely impaired by editing, and what is more, the editing has left a fair balance of posts from both sides of the argument so what possible reason would there be to delete ALL the thread?

Yours Faithfully, Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

[kirklancaster]

There's six pages of discussion over her comments on here, the thread has hardly been completely wiped clean. Is the discussion on these pages not adequate or is it only considered real debate when we have arguments and offensive comments flying everywhere

I agree.

[Niamh.]

I have suffered previously from having many posts removed - a lot of which I did not agree with because I felt they were inoccuous - but I did not cxomplain, as I have not complained on this thread. It is however more than unfair that KIZZY can get the thread re-opened at will then KIZZY can apparently have the entire thread DELETED if SHE wants?

What about the rest of us forum members who take time and trouble to post?

The discussion on this thread did not follow in a smooth chronological sequence - as it rarely does on any thread - so the gist of the discussion has not been severely impaired by editing, and what is more, and the editing has left a fair balance of posts from both sides of the argument so what possible reason would there be to delete ALL the thread?

Yours Faithfully, Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

It's Kizzys thread, I have often closed threads for people who started them on their request. Are you trying to make out that Kizzy gets special treatment on here? I doubt Kizzy herself would even agree with that :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

It's Kizzys thread, I have often closed threads for people who started them on their request. Are you trying to make out that Kizzy gets special treatment on here? I doubt Kizzy herself would even agree with that :laugh:

:laugh: No Niamh I wouldn't dare. I think if you look at how I signed my post off you will see I was being 'tongue-in-cheek'.

But I do think the editing's been fairly carried out - Who did it Josy? :joker:

[Kizzy]

A petition calling for the sacking of a newspaper columnist for comments she made about migrants crossing the Mediterranean has attracted about 250,000 signatures - but one calling for a rescue mission has attracted less support.
Katie Hopkins' screed against migrants - in an article in the 17 April edition of The Sun she called them "cockroaches" and advocated using gunships to stop people crossing the Mediterranean - has earned her a quarter of a million detractors calling for her to be sacked on petition site Change.org.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-32395272

A campaign calling for a rescue mission for migrants crossing the Mediterranean has eclipsed the push to oust newspaper columnist Katie Hopkins on a popular online petition site.
On Tuesday, Trending reported on the petition calling for The Sun newspaper to sack columnist Katie Hopkins for her comments about migrants. More than 250,000 people had put their names to that cause, and we noted that another petition - this one calling for an emergency EU mission to the Mediterranean - was only receiving a fraction of the support.
The tables have now turned. Tareke Brahne's call to "Stop the deaths at sea now!" eclipsed the anti-Hopkins petition early Wednesday UK time and had more than 280,000 supporters as of writing. Brahne, a migrant from Eritrea now living in Italy, is caling on the European Union to "restore a robust operation of search and rescue at sea."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-32414321

The tables are turning....

[arista]

"The tables are turning."


I am sure her team are aware of all this
see how far it goes?

[Iceman]

Seriously you all need to give it a rest. I'm sick to my back teeth seeing you all try to get one up on each other. Children aren't this bad. Take this as a final warning. Bans are next.

[Kizzy]

Brands view
884RCxG61K4

[Toy Soldier]

Well go on then :idc:

Damn you Niamh, I was trying to create a paradox that might mess with the Tibb-Time-Continuum and cause the thread to spontaneously implode and be erased from existence and memory completely!

But your casual tea drinking smilie has completely countered the effect. I should have foreseen this :fist:

[Toy Soldier]

Brands view
884RCxG61K4

I think Hopkins and Brand should just have some sort of deathmatch. Brand is an ex-junkie but he's all love and peace these days... and Hopkins is hard as nails in theory but, as we learned from Big Brother, rather soft in person... I reckon it could get messy.

[Kizzy]

Two hundred black body bags were lined up on Brighton beach by campaigners highlighting Britain’s “shameful” response to the migrant crisis in the Mediterranean.

Amnesty supporters zipped themselves into some of the body bags alongside a banner displaying the hashtag #DontLetThemDrown.

A campaigner then laid a wreath in the middle of the mass of bodies as they lay sprawled on the beach in front of the Brighton Wheel.

The stunt was staged as European leaders come under mounting pressure to agree a plan to stem the rising number of migrants killed trying to reach Europe for a better life.

Amnesty’s UK director, Kate Allen, said: “Until now, the British government’s response has been shameful but finally foreign ministers seem to be waking up to the need to act. EU governments must now urgently turn their rhetoric into action to stop more people drowning on their way to Europe.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/22/body-bag-protest-brighton-beach-migrant-crisis

[Kazanne]

I think there is a petition now for KH to keep her job and be allowed her freedom of speech.

[Toy Soldier]

Kizzy - I think it's been FAIRLY deleted, but no one actually DID agree with Hopkins being given the right to address the nation via the sun 'newspaper' anyway, so that part's not missing.

Of course you think it was fairly edited Kirk, the new edit cut off giving you the last word! :joker:

Although I actually thought the original point where it closed was quite unfair... I actually considered PMing to say as much being honest. I have no problem calling people out with what I think of their opinions, but not if they don't have the opportunity to reply at all... that just sux.

In other words, in my opinion, the thread should either have stayed open in the first place OR it should have been cropped right back to the first page. But then, I'm not a mod... just a big fat thread derailerer :laugh:

[Toy Soldier]

I think there is a petition now for KH to keep her job and be allowed her freedom of speech.

As I said earlier, she hasn't been denied her freedom of speech. She has twitter, she can even set up her own website and post these things if she want. Freely available for everyone to see... freedom of speech NOT affected in any way.

Whether or not her opinions should be featured in a mainstream publication with massive readership and influence isn't a freedom of speech issue at all.

[Niamh.]

Damn you Niamh, I was trying to create a paradox that might mess with the Tibb-Time-Continuum and cause the thread to spontaneously implode and be erased from existence and memory completely!

But your casual tea drinking smilie has completely countered the effect. I should have foreseen this :fist:

:hehe:

[Niamh.]

Brands view
884RCxG61K4

I just love Russell, i agree with almost everything he says, could listen to him all day long. Spot on again in that video

[Kizzy]

Of course you think it was fairly edited Kirk, the new edit cut off giving you the last word! :joker:

Although I actually thought the original point where it closed was quite unfair... I actually considered PMing to say as much being honest. I have no problem calling people out with what I think of their opinions, but not if they don't have the opportunity to reply at all... that just sux.

In other words, in my opinion, the thread should either have stayed open in the first place OR it should have been cropped right back to the first page. But then, I'm not a mod... just a big fat thread derailerer :laugh:

As the OP I demand the last word Niamh said so here..

Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I don't agree, due to the sterilisation of the thread there's no point discussing it further and any examples have gone.
So draw a line under it I want the thread to remain open thank you.

JINX!!! no comebacks!!

[AnnieK]

I think there is a petition now for KH to keep her job and be allowed her freedom of speech.

She should of course be allowed her freedom of speech which would not be taken from her anyway but the platform from which she spouts her **** from could (and should IMO) be removed. She would still have her twitter etc from which to vent

[Niamh.]

I think there is a petition now for KH to keep her job and be allowed her freedom of speech.

mmm the freedom to refer to other human beings as cockroaches, yay for her

[Toy Soldier]

I just love Russell, i agree with almost everything he says, could listen to him all day long. Spot on again in that video

I do think he has Katie Hopkins spot on really. She is a tormented individual in pain and she feels the need to lash out with that pain at other people... and it's policy and the horrible opinions of other people that gives her targets. It just happens to have made her a lot of money. If any evidence is needed of this, just rewatch her in CBB. The woman has to fight back tears if anyone says anything even passably nice about her. That is really not normal...

[MTVN]

Don't agree with Brand at all that Hopkins is espousing established policy. He doesn't even say what he mean by that in fact he just starts comparing her to Himmler. It might be valid to compare her rhetoric with that of the Nazis but the Nazis aren't exactly established policy anymore are they. Our politicians are actually all united in the need to do more to tackle this problem, most of them in favour of a European wide or a worldwide solution. It's an incredibly complicated issue though and there is no simple remedy however much Brand thinks we can solve all the worlds problems by making "individual transitions" to "find your own humanity". Him making out that her views are representative of mainstream society and established policy, rather than purely representing Hopkins insatiable need to satisfy her own ego with media converage, is just as stupid as her being allowed a column in the most popular national newspaper.

[arista]

Don't agree with Brand at all that Hopkins is espousing established policy. He doesn't even say what he mean by that in fact he just starts comparing her to Himmler. It might be valid to compare her rhetoric with that of the Nazis but the Nazis aren't exactly established policy anymore are they. Our politicians are actually all united in the need to do more to tackle this problem, most of them in favour of a European wide or a worldwide solution. It's an incredibly complicated issue though and there is no simple remedy however much Brand thinks we can solve all the worlds problems by making "individual transitions" to "find your own humanity".


He is joking


I used the N word
against a statement /member
and got a infraction - I am not Fighting That


So good job Brand is not on here
as he would not last long

[Niamh.]

I do think he has Katie Hopkins spot on really. She is a tormented individual in pain and she feels the need to lash out with that pain at other people... and it's policy and the horrible opinions of other people that gives her targets. It just happens to have made her a lot of money. If any evidence is needed of this, just rewatch her in CBB. The woman has to fight back tears if anyone says anything even passably nice about her. That is really not normal...

I actually didn't believe that at all. To me it seemed very much part of her act

[Niamh.]

Don't agree with Brand at all that Hopkins is espousing established policy. He doesn't even say what he mean by that in fact he just starts comparing her to Himmler. It might be valid to compare her rhetoric with that of the Nazis but the Nazis aren't exactly established policy anymore are they. Our politicians are actually all united in the need to do more to tackle this problem, most of them in favour of a European wide or a worldwide solution. It's an incredibly complicated issue though and there is no simple remedy however much Brand thinks we can solve all the worlds problems by making "individual transitions" to "find your own humanity". Him making out that her views are representative of mainstream society and established policy, rather than purely representing Hopkins insatiable need to satisfy her own ego with media converage, is just as stupid as her being allowed a column in the most popular national newspaper.

She does seem to have alot of people who agree with her though which is very worrying imo

[Vicky.]

I just love Russell, i agree with almost everything he says, could listen to him all day long. Spot on again in that video

Yeah, hes a bit of a tit, but his politics stuff is completely spot on. Hes apparently got a film coming out where hes basically harassing the tax avoiding people. I will be watching :D

All of his profits from his last book went into setting up a soup kitchen/restaurant type thing where he employs loads of people who wouldnt get work otherwise (homeless, ex addicts and such). I saw it on the jonathon ross show a while back....his reasoning was whats the point in a rich person just getting richer (on about himself) because of the book...so thats why he did it. I just love him. We could do with more people like him about tbh.

[kirklancaster]

Of course you think it was fairly edited Kirk, the new edit cut off giving you the last word! :joker:

Although I actually thought the original point where it closed was quite unfair... I actually considered PMing to say as much being honest. I have no problem calling people out with what I think of their opinions, but not if they don't have the opportunity to reply at all... that just sux.

In other words, in my opinion, the thread should either have stayed open in the first place OR it should have been cropped right back to the first page. But then, I'm not a mod... just a big fat thread derailerer :laugh:

:joker: This may be so TS but it is the first time. Usually the threads have been closed and MY post removed so I don't have the last word. :laugh:

Karma, dear friend, Karma. :joker:

[MTVN]

He is joking


I used the N word
against a statement /member
and got a infraction - I am not Fighting That


So good job Brand is not on here
as he would not last long

You did what!!??

She does seem to have alot of people who agree with her though which is very worrying imo

I'd say people who agree with her are negligible compared to the huge number of people who find her an awful human being though. I can't see that petition to 'let her have freedom of speech' will get near the 270,000 that have called for her removal from the Sun

[kirklancaster]

Yeah, hes a bit of a tit, but his politics stuff is completely spot on. Hes apparently got a film coming out where hes basically harassing the tax avoiding people. I will be watching :D

All of his profits from his last book went into setting up a soup kitchen/restaurant type thing where he employs loads of people who wouldnt get work otherwise (homeless, ex addicts and such). I saw it on the jonathon ross show a while back....his reasoning was whats the point in a rich person just getting richer (on about himself) because of the book...so thats why he did it. I just love him. We could do with more people like him about tbh.

I did not like him at all - especially his abhorrent stunt with poor 'Manuel' - but I have warmed to him now because I now think that he is sincere and that's what matters to me. He's not doing all this 'Crusading' to boost his own popularity and hence 'Marquee Value'.

[Niamh.]

You did what!!??

Nazi being the N word in question :laugh:

I'd say people who agree with her are negligible compared to the huge number of people who find her an awful human being though. I can't see that petition to 'let her have freedom of speech' will get near the 270,000 that have called for her removal from the Sun

Well, i do hope so

[Niamh.]

Yeah, hes a bit of a tit, but his politics stuff is completely spot on. Hes apparently got a film coming out where hes basically harassing the tax avoiding people. I will be watching :D

All of his profits from his last book went into setting up a soup kitchen/restaurant type thing where he employs loads of people who wouldnt get work otherwise (homeless, ex addicts and such). I saw it on the jonathon ross show a while back....his reasoning was whats the point in a rich person just getting richer (on about himself) because of the book...so thats why he did it. I just love him. We could do with more people like him about tbh.

Oh yeah I saw that interview as well, can't wait to see the film as well.

[Toy Soldier]

PMSL at the confusion with arista dropping an N-bomb :joker:.

[Josy]

I think there is a petition now for KH to keep her job and be allowed her freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech and hate speech are two completely different things. Pity more don't realise it.

[Vanessa]

If she's on BOTS i will not watch the show. I can't stand her! :dog:

[Toy Soldier]

Freedom of speech and hate speech are two completely different things. Pity more don't realise it.
Very true, freedom of speech (and freedom of the press, which is again slightly different) is supposed to be about being able to speak out against the government or against authority in general without fear of persecution.

Somehow it's been taken and twisted into this form where it means that d-list celebrities are allowed to incite racial hatred and engage in vicious stereotyping without any sort of consequence. An utter mess, really.

[joeysteele]

Freedom of speech and hate speech are two completely different things. Pity more don't realise it.

That is a point really well made. I agree 100%.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Freedom of speech and hate speech are two completely different things. Pity more don't realise it.

Well hate speech is in law so if she is guilty why has no one prosecuted her?

[kirklancaster]

Don't agree with Brand at all that Hopkins is espousing established policy. He doesn't even say what he mean by that in fact he just starts comparing her to Himmler. It might be valid to compare her rhetoric with that of the Nazis but the Nazis aren't exactly established policy anymore are they. Our politicians are actually all united in the need to do more to tackle this problem, most of them in favour of a European wide or a worldwide solution. It's an incredibly complicated issue though and there is no simple remedy however much Brand thinks we can solve all the worlds problems by making "individual transitions" to "find your own humanity". Him making out that her views are representative of mainstream society and established policy, rather than purely representing Hopkins insatiable need to satisfy her own ego with media converage, is just as stupid as her being allowed a column in the most popular national newspaper.

A brilliant post.

[Toy Soldier]

Well hate speech is in law so if she is guilty why has no one prosecuted her?
Because she's An Celebrity. If this was some average chav on Facebook, they would have been arrested by now.

[joeysteele]

Well I will never like her, I don't really understand how anyone like her is liked and supported at all.

One thing about her is that she always sticks by what she says no matter how unnecessary and revolting itis, so she has said if Ed Miliband becomes PM she will leave the UK.
The sooner that happens then and she clears off the better in my view.

I will even pay for her taxi to the airport.

[Kizzy]

Don't agree with Brand at all that Hopkins is espousing established policy. He doesn't even say what he mean by that in fact he just starts comparing her to Himmler. It might be valid to compare her rhetoric with that of the Nazis but the Nazis aren't exactly established policy anymore are they. Our politicians are actually all united in the need to do more to tackle this problem, most of them in favour of a European wide or a worldwide solution. It's an incredibly complicated issue though and there is no simple remedy however much Brand thinks we can solve all the worlds problems by making "individual transitions" to "find your own humanity". Him making out that her views are representative of mainstream society and established policy, rather than purely representing Hopkins insatiable need to satisfy her own ego with media converage, is just as stupid as her being allowed a column in the most popular national newspaper.

Whether or not the nazis are an established party today or not is irrelevant, it's still possible to draw a comparison. He is correct that it was policy..it may be changing quickly but as of last oct it was.

[MTVN]

Whether or not the nazis are an established party today or not is irrelevant, it's still possible to draw a comparison. He is correct that it was policy..it may be changing quickly but as of last oct it was.

To draw a comparison between the rhetoric of Hopkins and that of the Nazis yes, not to draw a comparison between their policy and today's policy. It is relevant whether the Nazis policy is that which is established today because what Brand says is:

"[Katie Hopkins] is merely the voice of, in many cases, established policy. One of the things Katie Hopkins said is 'these people are like cockroaches', when people are like cockroaches what valued does their life have? None, they're just gonna breed all over the place, they breed like hell, this is actually a common view of displaced people or unpopular sections of society. A notable psychological and ideological compatriot of Katie Hopkins is Himmler"

So Brand makes a wild claim - that Katie Hopkins is the voice of established policy - and then completely fails to explain that and makes the immediate association with the Nazis instead. Sorry Russell mate but you've gotta do better than that if you actually want to present yourself as a serious authority on politics. You can't just throw around wild claims and big words in an attempt to make yourself look smart and convincing.

What do you mean about last October?

[Kizzy]

It's valid to me, he aligns her view with current policy and then separately draws a comparison with her comments in the sun and the propaganda of the nazis.

Her skewed support for the policy manifested itself as something akin to the ravings of Himmler he was right to shine a light on that.

I mean about removal of UK support for migrant rescue.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/27/uk-mediterranean-migrant-rescue-plan

[kirklancaster]

It's valid to me, he aligns her view with current policy and then separately draws a comparison with her comments in the sun and the propaganda of the nazis.

Her skewed support for the policy manifested itself as something akin to the ravings of Himmler he was right to shine a light on that.

I mean about removal of UK support for migrant rescue.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/27/uk-mediterranean-migrant-rescue-plan

Seriously now Kizzy - and non-confrontationally - Why don't our Government just liaise with all the countries from which these 'refugees/illegal immigrants/asylum seekers 'flee from' and spend a few more billions of pounds WE HAVEN'T GOT, and use all our Royal Navy ships to just GO and pick up all these poor unfortunates?

Then we can bring THEM ALL HERE and accommodate all these millions in houses WE HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few hundred millions of pounds per week from the Benefits Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, and drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Social Services Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Police Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the NHS Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, the Schools budget we HAVEN'T GOT, etc. etc. etc.

Or perhaps these poor unfortunates will actually INCREASE the National Coffers by paying taxes after MIRACULOUSLY all finding jobs WE HAVEN'T GOT.

I despair.

[bots]

Seriously now Kizzy - and non-confrontationally - Why don't our Government just liaise with all the countries from which these 'refugees/illegal immigrants/asylum seekers 'flee from' and spend a few more billions of pounds WE HAVEN'T GOT, and use all our Royal Navy ships to just GO and pick up all these poor unfortunates?

Then we can bring THEM ALL HERE and accommodate all these millions in houses WE HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few hundred millions of pounds per week from the Benefits Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, and drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Social Services Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Police Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the NHS Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, the Schools budget we HAVEN'T GOT, etc. etc. etc.

Or perhaps these poor unfortunates will actually INCREASE the National Coffers by paying taxes after MIRACULOUSLY all finding jobs WE HAVEN'T GOT.

I despair.

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.

[Kazanne]

On the news this morning most of them are men and what living accommodation they have been given is not good enough and their food not adequate ,this is what some of them are saying, well surely that is better than taking a risk on the seas,Italy have to scan and sort these people out,which takes time,people ARE trying to help,they cant have it all NOW.

[joeysteele]

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.


Brilliantly put,really well said.
You and I don't see eye to eye on much but that is an excellent statement.

[Kazanne]

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.

It's only a Christian country when it suits bitontheslide,according to some people ,God doesn't even exist,only at times of strife(as this is) Christmas,Easter etc,any other time he is a figment of our imagination:hehe:

[Niamh.]

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.

:clap2:

[Niamh.]

It's only a Christian country when it suits bitontheslide,according to some people ,God doesn't even exist,only at times of strife(as this is) Christmas,Easter etc,any other time he is a figment of our imagination:hehe:

As someone who doesn't believe in God, what I took from bitontheslides post was that we westerners are supposed to have "Christian Values" which are supposedly far superior to everything else yet some of the attitudes from so called Christians don't seem very Christian at all

[Kazanne]

As someone who doesn't believe in God, what I took from bitontheslides post was that we westerners are supposed to have "Christian Values" which are supposedly far superior to everything else yet some of the attitudes from so called Christians don't seem very Christian at all

I would help anyone in need Niamh as I am sure most of us would whether we believe or not,what I do understand is some of the views on here, we can only do so much,what do people want us to do exactly?

[Niamh.]

I would help anyone in need Niamh as I am sure most of us would whether we believe or not,what I do understand is some of the views on here, we can only do so much,what do people want us to do exactly?

Well, not refer to them as cockroaches that need to be blown out of the water instead of rescued would be a good start anyway :/ (yes I know you didn't say that)

[lostalex]

katie hopkins is playing devil's advocate on the most Base level. i think she feels she is justified because she is saying what most people on TV won't say, but what most people think immediately. She is providing snap judgements, and anyone who won't admit that what she says is usually the same snap judgement you have sometimes, is a liar.

She is exposing the automatic prejudice that we all feel.

She is also, by vocalizing those snap judgements, allowing us to have conversations about the issues without censorship.

I don't believe Katie Hopkins is as base and simple as her opinions often seem, i think she knows full well that they are primitive, simple opinions, and she is just giving voice to them. she is literally playing devil's advocate.

She enjoys the debate, i don't think she honestly believes half the things she said on second thought. she's just making a career from speaking outloud the prejudices that we all have.

[bots]

I would help anyone in need Niamh as I am sure most of us would whether we believe or not,what I do understand is some of the views on here, we can only do so much,what do people want us to do exactly?

I'm not religious at all Kaz, but our leaders are quick enough to use the Christian banner to dictate to other countries how they should behave. We have also intervened and placed sanctions on countries under the very same banner of righteousness.

Its double standards to me, if we walk away when a country or its people needs assistance. This doesn't mean we have to shoulder all the responsibility for caring for them, but we could be pro active in finding global solutions, in the same way that we do when a country pisses us off

[Kizzy]

Seriously now Kizzy - and non-confrontationally - Why don't our Government just liaise with all the countries from which these 'refugees/illegal immigrants/asylum seekers 'flee from' and spend a few more billions of pounds WE HAVEN'T GOT, and use all our Royal Navy ships to just GO and pick up all these poor unfortunates?

Then we can bring THEM ALL HERE and accommodate all these millions in houses WE HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few hundred millions of pounds per week from the Benefits Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, and drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Social Services Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the Police Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, drain another few millions of pounds per week from the NHS Budget we HAVEN'T GOT, the Schools budget we HAVEN'T GOT, etc. etc. etc.

Or perhaps these poor unfortunates will actually INCREASE the National Coffers by paying taxes after MIRACULOUSLY all finding jobs WE HAVEN'T GOT.

I despair.

I see nothing proactive in your post, our government has now pledged support due to our part in the destabalisation of their part of the world and are finally working on a solution rather than refusing to acknowledge the enormity of the problem.

[Kazanne]

katie hopkins is playing devil's advocate on the most Base level. i think she feels she is justified because she is saying what most people on TV won't say, but what most people think immediately. She is providing snap judgements, and anyone who won't admit that what she says is usually the same snap judgement you have sometimes, is a liar.

She is exposing the automatic prejudice that we all feel.

She is also, by vocalizing those snap judgements, allowing us to have conversations about the issues without censorship.

I don't believe Katie Hopkins is as base and simple as her opinions often seem, i think she knows full well that they are primitive, simple opinions, and she is just giving voice to them. she is literally playing devil's advocate.

She enjoys the debate, i don't think she honestly believes half the things she said on second thought. she's just making a career from speaking outloud the prejudices that we all have.

That is my impression of KH too, I really think she likes to shock and get people talking and debating and boy she sure does that,I think sometimes her comments are taken too literally ,is she really a she devil? I doubt it very much.

[Kizzy]

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.

Maybe like leaves on a track these are the wrong kind of Christians, or as the paranoia grows it's not Christians at all it's ISIS masquerading as refugees though?
I entirely agree with the sentiments though, there is a really strange disparity in the attitudes on this issue as there is a distinct reversal in the perceived mindset I feel.

[Kazanne]

I'm not religious at all Kaz, but our leaders are quick enough to use the Christian banner to dictate to other countries how they should behave. We have also intervened and placed sanctions on countries under the very same banner of righteousness.

Its double standards to me, if we walk away when a country or its people needs assistance. This doesn't mean we have to shoulder all the responsibility for caring for them, but we could be pro active in finding global solutions, in the same way that we do when a country pisses us off

I understand that bitontheslide,I do think we will help if we can,but I do think people should be vetted first.On the news earlier some of these people have been in contact with Ebola ,so for that reason alone we need to be careful.

[joeysteele]

Well, not refer to them as cockroaches that need to be blown out of the water instead of rescued would be a good start anyway :/ (yes I know you didn't say that)

I do have to say, this and your earlier post are totally spot on.

In my opinion,Christian and indeed just even any kind of caring values should not just be brought into play when it suits, or is convenient for those who claim to care.
They should be brought into play whenever,wherever and for whoever the need is there for such compassion,caring and help.

[kirklancaster]

Hardly the voice of compassion though is it?

To some people there would never be a point they would assist, because they are never rich enough, never have enough spare housing etc etc etc.

When people are in dire need of assistance, as human beings, we offer assistance. Is that not the CHRISTIAN thing to do? We don't simply walk by someone ill in the street and give them a kick as we go. We call for assistance.

There is nothing i detest more than double standards. We are either a Christian country that will always come to the aid of those who TRULY need it or we are not. This is not related to our own wealth standards as those we are assisting are in a much much worse position than ourselves.

According to most people on this forum - The UK is NOT a MAJORITY Christian country any more as a look back at various threads will attest.

As for 'Double Standards' that is not applicable to my post.

No one is advocating NOT helping ANY human beings who are in need of help, only that we have to be REALISTIC and NOT GO OUT SCOURING THE SEVEN SEAS AT OUR EXPENSE to LOOK for any unfortunates who might need help - especially when THEY SHOULD NOT BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

90% of the world's population is "in a worse position than ourselves" - Do we extend aid to them all - actual physical or financial?

Why aren't we going into Africa and certain other parts of the world and searching out ALL the millions of starving, ill, and dying little children so that we can save them? We KNOW that they are there - that they EXIST.

Why aren't we AIRLIFTING them and their families into the UK and making room for them here?

What is the difference? WHO decides who to save and who not to?

This is THE TRUE DOUBLE STANDARDS in WESTERN SOCIETY.

Britain is no longer an Empire and we are a 'Kingdom' not so 'United', and one fraught with increasing and overwhelming problems of our own - some critical - and we just have neither the MONEY nor RESOURCES to solve our own problems let alone the world's.

Charity and Mercy are noble qualities and of course aid should be given where human disasters strike, but the harsh reality is that nature is often cruel and mankind even crueller, and we cannot always afford to do what we would like to do.

The blind spot with certain people in this country is that it is one thing to think and care and provide for other people - BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR OWN.

A lot of our own citizens are using foodbanks, sleeping rough, suffering through a lack of medical resources and hospital beds. A great number of our children are struggling by on a pittance of benefits - barely existing - at the very time in their lives when they should be buying new clothes, going out at weekends, taking driving lessons, having holidays etc - because there are no jobs for them. Many old people who have worked hard all their lives and contributed to this country are dying of malnutrition and hypothermia.

A policy of seeing to others whilst neglecting your own is one surefire way to create in our own citizens the very racism which the 'P.C. bleeding hearts responsible for such a policy are 'bending over backwards' to be seen to avoid.

I'm sorry if this post renders me even more unpopular than I have already become, but it is the TRUTH as I know it.

[Kizzy]

According to most people on this forum - The UK is NOT a MAJORITY Christian country any more as a look back at various threads will attest.

As for 'Double Standards' that is not applicable to my post.

No one is advocating NOT helping ANY human beings who are in need of help, only that we have to be REALISTIC and NOT GO OUT SCOURING THE SEVEN SEAS AT OUR EXPENSE to LOOK for any unfortunates who might need help - especially when THEY SHOULD NOT BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

90% of the world's population is "in a worse position than ourselves" - Do we extend aid to them all - actual physical or financial?

Why aren't we going into Africa and certain other parts of the world and searching out ALL the millions of starving, ill, and dying little children so that we can save them? We KNOW that they are there - that they EXIST.

Why aren't we AIRLIFTING them and their families into the UK and making room for them here?

What is the difference? WHO decides who to save and who not to?

This is THE TRUE DOUBLE STANDARDS in WESTERN SOCIETY.

Britain is no longer an Empire and we are a 'Kingdom' not so 'United', and one fraught with increasing and overwhelming problems of our own - some critical - and we just have neither the MONEY nor RESOURCES to solve our own problems let alone the world's.

Charity and Mercy are noble qualities and of course aid should be given where human disasters strike, but the harsh reality is that nature is often cruel and mankind even crueller, and we cannot always afford to do what we would like to do.

The blind spot with certain people in this country is that it is one thing to think and care and provide for other people - BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR OWN.

A lot of our own citizens are using foodbanks, sleeping rough, suffering through a lack of medical resources and hospital beds. A great number of our children are struggling by on a pittance of benefits - barely existing - at the very time in their lives when they should be buying new clothes, going out at weekends, taking driving lessons, having holidays etc - because there are no jobs for them. Many old people who have worked hard all their lives and contributed to this country are dying of malnutrition and hypothermia.

A policy of seeing to others whilst neglecting your own is one surefire way to create in our own citizens the very racism which the 'P.C. bleeding hearts responsible for such a policy are 'bending over backwards' to be seen to avoid.

I'm sorry if this post renders me even more unpopular than I have already become, but it is the TRUTH as I know it.

I disagree, there were comments that expressed just that opinion.
If we interfere with the infrastructure of a country we must shoulder the responsibility to restore civility.

[kirklancaster]

I would help anyone in need Niamh as I am sure most of us would whether we believe or not,what I do understand is some of the views on here, we can only do so much,what do people want us to do exactly?

:clap1::clap1::clap1: I applaud ALL the points which you make in your posts on here Kaz.

[MTVN]

How do you solve a problem like Eritrea

[Crimson Dynamo]

How do you solve a problem like Eritrea

They have to solve their own problems

[Kazanne]

:clap1::clap1::clap1: I applaud ALL the points which you make in your posts on here Kaz.

I'm glad someone does Kirk,lol,people seem to think that some of us don't care about what's going on,well of course we do,but how do we solve it when we have so much to deal with ourselves ?

[Niamh.]

Reopening this, lets try to stick to the subject at hand this time and not eachother so it doesn't get closed again

[arista]

[“Rescue boats? I’d use gunships to stop migrants”. That was The Sun's headline, written apparently without concern.]

yes Kizzy but Katie loves you for making this thread
I mean she now has a Adult Topic and Comedy show on TLC HD

[Kizzy]

David Miliband, the former UK foreign secretary, has expressed “double shock” at the humanitarian crisis on Lesbos, now the entry point of more than half of Europe’s total intake of refugees.
Miliband, who heads up the International Rescue Committee – an aid agency that helps resettle refugees – told the Guardian it was appalling it had taken such numbers to jolt Europe into action.
“What we can say is that Europe’s response has been wholly inadequate,” he said on his second day of a visit to Lesbos. “Greece and Italy have been screaming about this problem for over a year. Europe’s eye has been on different things. There has been appalling neglect. It has taken the scale of this problem to jolt Europe into taking the appropriate levels of response.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/14/david-miliband-criticises-europe-refugee-response-lesbos-visit

[arista]

David Miliband, the former UK foreign secretary, has expressed “double shock” at the humanitarian crisis on Lesbos, now the entry point of more than half of Europe’s total intake of refugees.
Miliband, who heads up the International Rescue Committee – an aid agency that helps resettle refugees – told the Guardian it was appalling it had taken such numbers to jolt Europe into action.
“What we can say is that Europe’s response has been wholly inadequate,” he said on his second day of a visit to Lesbos. “Greece and Italy have been screaming about this problem for over a year. Europe’s eye has been on different things. There has been appalling neglect. It has taken the scale of this problem to jolt Europe into taking the appropriate levels of response.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/14/david-miliband-criticises-europe-refugee-response-lesbos-visit


Yes I watched him on SkyNewsHD
its Tragic.


But we are taking our share from
the Outside of Syria UN bases
the PM is there today.
They are far worse off

[Kizzy]

Yes now but this has been happening for a very long time, our response has been due to pressure from our EU neighbours. I think this thread reflects the change in attitude in the media.

[Kazanne]

KH aside,I just fear for the day we are no longer a race,we will be goverened by Sharia law,the women will be supressed,it WILL happen somewhere down the line in this country once called England,I am all for helping people, but we shouldn't be blinded,by the media,a lot of people trying to get here are young men with an agenda. It's a very unstable world at the moment.

[Niamh.]

KH aside,I just fear for the day we are no longer a race,we will be goverened by Sharia law,the women will be supressed,it WILL happen somewhere down the line in this country once called England,I am all for helping people, but we shouldn't be blinded,by the media,a lot of people trying to get here are young men with an agenda. It's a very unstable world at the moment.

That's never going to happen Kazanne

[Kazanne]

That's never going to happen Kazanne

The way things are going Niamh,I am not so sure.

[Niamh.]

The way things are going Niamh,I am not so sure.

What way are things going?

[Kizzy]

The fear generated by the media has really had an effect and many are literally terrified of everyone at the moment, it really sad.

[JoshBB]

The way things are going Niamh,I am not so sure.

It would never be allowed under the European Convention on Human Rights, neither under International Law, which our country subscribes to and is a part of the UN, and the people of Britain would never stand for it.

Huge amounts of Sharia Law is disgusting and I will oppose it in all its forms. But don't use it to demonise Muslims, the majority of muslims living in the UK do not support it either.

[Kizzy]

Fear, it's just irrational fear, in Christian Europe how likely is it that we will have sharia law?

[Kizzy]

Here is some info from the red cross for those who feel we'll be overun.

The number of people forced to flee their homes last year, across the world, was over 50 million – for the first time since the Second World War. People applying for asylum in developed countries reached a 22-year high. In fact, the figure pretty much doubled in just a year. This is shocking.

OK. IT’S JUST A SHAME THEY ALL COME HERE.
Here’s the thing: most asylum seekers don’t come to the UK.

Most (80 per cent) flee to a developing country, over their nearest border. That’s why countries like Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey host the most refugees. (Tellingly, three of these share a border with Syria.)

But sometimes those countries are too dangerous – so people travel further.

This doesn’t mean that we’re the ‘scapegoat’ in Europe, though. People are far more likely to claim asylum in Germany, Sweden, France or Italy.

In fact, there were 109,600 new asylum claims in Germany, in 2013: four-and-a-half times more than in the UK that year.

We actually host around 1 per cent of the world’s refugees – and they make up just 0.24 per cent of the UK population.

Although some papers use terms like “flooded”, “hordes” or “surge”, this is not the ‘invasion’ or ‘natural disaster’ that such words imply.

On top of that, the media tends to confuse asylum seekers and economic migrants. It lumps them all in together in a wider immigration debate. This isn’t helpful to anyone.

In fact, the amount of asylum seekers coming to the UK has fallen a lot since a spike in 2002.

Rather than fixate on the floodgates, we’re better off throwing a lifeline to the ones that do come here. That way, we can help them get on with their lives and contribute fully to society

http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/refugeesservices/2015/04/extreme-flood-alert-are-we-awash-with-refugees/