is this a sackable offence?

[the truth]

ok so I own a few businesses...one of which is a taxi / minibuses business

so I get a driver dropped off at his house and tell him we will get a taxi to him for tomorrows shift....he asks me where is a particular I tell him its being fixed in the mechanics and should be ready tomorrow at 12....I tell him the day driver will be picking that taxi up from the garage at 12 and we will get a taxi to him ready for his 5pm shift tomorrow

ok so the next day the driver on day shift goes to the garage at 12 to get this car that's been fixed and its gone.....so we immediately suspect the other driver has taken it....he doesn't answer his phone all day ....I send a driver around there and he has taken the car from the mechanics without permission.....the car is locked outside his house...my drivers knocks for 10 minutes and he doesn't answer...eventually after endless calls and texts he answers ....I tell him to give the key to the driver....he gets shirty tries to talk over me...I say we haven't got time we have fares to pick up ...give him the key....he then says hes put £20 fuel in the car and wants his money back....so we check the car and get a receipt and give his his £20 and take the car....he claims I as the owner told him to collect the car from the garage, which is a lie

now the question is, is this a sackable offence? this is not the first or second time hes done this....hes done it many times..why does he do it? because he wants to choose what car he gets and doesn't listen to me even though I own the cars and the business

ive never had this problem with other drivers to this extent though it is surprising how fussy they are about what cars...several drivers simply wont drive 6+ seaters....but to actually take a car from a mechanics garage without permission is surely totally unacceptable

im undecided whether to suspend him or sack him to be honest

[Mokka]

If it is a reoccurring pattern on inconsistencies from this same individual... I say from a non-legal perspective yes, fire him

But I don't know the labour laws where you are so from a legal perspective... idk

[joeysteele]

It's down to you, is he good at his job when he does it, has he damaged the car,do you mind him having that car or not for the job required,whe he is working.

He has probably overstepped the mark from what you say and disobeyed your instructions.
In the end,is he worth other chances or not, only you know his work record,so if he has value, you could try to work something out, if not, you are left with one course of action.

[billy123]

No its not sackable on its own but i would call him into the office for a disciplinary and give him a written warning that his behaviour wasnt acceptable. (even if he has a history of behaviour like it you cant sack him for it without having a record of warning him about it first) If he doesnt change his ways then you can give him a final written warning then eventually sack him for it but for his sake i hope a warning will be enough.
Employees will get away with as much as you allow them to if this guy feels like he can take liberties it is because you have let him.

[Mokka]

No its not sackable on its own but i would call him into the office for a disciplinary and give him a written warning that his behaviour wasnt acceptable (even if he has a history of behaviour like it you cant sack him for it without having a record of warning him about it first)

This is what I meant, your laws may require this type of proof if he decides to take the issue to the labour board.

[user104658]

Surely the simplest solution would be to write it into your employment contracts that this isn't allowed? Whether or not you can force him to sign a new contract is another matter, though. The company I work for tends to, basically, make things as difficult as possible for people until they cave and either sign a new contract or quit. Or they use bribes - a "bonus" in the next pay if you sign whatever it is they happen to want you to sign.

Otherwise I think it depends whether or not you could reasonably justify this as theft. He could claim that he didn't consider it such, but then, if you tell him (in writing) that you will consider it to be theft in future then he doesn't really have any comeback next time.

[AnnieK]

Do your drivers have a contract of employment or contract for services?

[the truth]

all correspondence on these matters has either been done verbally , face to face, over the phone or been done by text....ive warned him about his behaviour several times. whether texts are totally legally binding I honestly don't know. surely most people realise they cant take other peoples property without authorisation...without an employer having to repeatedly tell them this? he even cut out the leather parts from one of my cars last year? because he later claimed it was causing him some friction. I mean who does things like that? I was brought up to respect other peoples property, period. I don't touch other peoples stuff without permission and wouldn't dream of doing these things to other peoples property.....then again a lot of people don't seem to think like that nowadays.

[the truth]

Do your drivers have a contract of employment or contract for services?

this driver is not contracted due to this kind of behaviour, so hes self employed and as such I don't have to worry about all the ramifications.

[Vicky.]

What kind of a contract does he have?

I used to work for a taxi company (one of the radio people) and our drivers either
1) Essentially rented a car from us. They gave a set amount each week and all job money went to them.
2) Went halfies with the owner on each job.
3) Were paid a set wage no matter how many jobs.

The cutting leather from your car, would surely come under gross misconduct? Though if that was a while ago you might find it hard to get rid of him for that. I wouldn't use texts to talk to your staff either, especially if you are giving them warnings and stuff. Best to keep to written down on paper, with a copy for your records.

[Vicky.]

this driver is not contracted due to this kind of behaviour, so hes self employed and as such I don't have to worry about all the ramifications.

So its pretty much the first option on my post? If he doesn't work for you, you can just stop leasing him vehicles :shrug: Use the excuse of..you have too many 'employees' who need to use them

[arista]

What kind of a contract does he have?

I used to work for a taxi company (one of the radio people) and our drivers either
1) Essentially rented a car from us. They gave a set amount each week and all job money went to them.
2) Went halfies with the owner on each job.
3) Were paid a set wage no matter how many jobs.

The cutting leather from your car, would surely come under gross misconduct? Though if that was a while ago you might find it hard to get rid of him for that. I wouldn't use texts to talk to your staff either, especially if you are giving them warnings and stuff. Best to keep to written down on paper, with a copy for your records.

Yes Unregulated.

Vicky did you ever fill in
as a driver picking up men?

[Vicky.]

Yes Unregulated.

Vicky did you ever fill in
as a driver picking up men?

I can't drive :laugh: Or not legally at least

[kirklancaster]

No its not sackable on its own but i would call him into the office for a disciplinary and give him a written warning that his behaviour wasnt acceptable. (even if he has a history of behaviour like it you cant sack him for it without having a record of warning him about it first) If he doesnt change his ways then you can give him a final written warning then eventually sack him for it but for his sake i hope a warning will be enough.
Employees will get away with as much as you allow them to if this guy feels like he can take liberties it is because you have let him.

This - because it's accurate.

[arista]

I can't drive :laugh: Or not legally at least


OK

Fair enough to you

[user104658]

this driver is not contracted due to this kind of behaviour, so hes self employed and as such I don't have to worry about all the ramifications.
If he's not contracted then he's not an employee and as such whether or not it's a stackable offense is irrelevant. Just stop paying for his services and tell them that they are no longer required.

[Northern Monkey]

No its not sackable on its own but i would call him into the office for a disciplinary and give him a written warning that his behaviour wasnt acceptable. (even if he has a history of behaviour like it you cant sack him for it without having a record of warning him about it first) If he doesnt change his ways then you can give him a final written warning then eventually sack him for it but for his sake i hope a warning will be enough.
Employees will get away with as much as you allow them to if this guy feels like he can take liberties it is because you have let him.

Yes.Beat me to it.Get some written warnings on record to cover yourself should he take action for you sacking him.

[AnnieK]

If he's not contracted then he's not an employee and as such whether or not it's a stackable offense is irrelevant. Just stop paying for his services and tell them that they are no longer required.

This

[Ammi]

It's down to you, is he good at his job when he does it, has he damaged the car,do you mind him having that car or not for the job required,whe he is working.

He has probably overstepped the mark from what you say and disobeyed your instructions.
In the end,is he worth other chances or not, only you know his work record,so if he has value, you could try to work something out, if not, you are left with one course of action.

..I would just maybe think about what Joey said though..is he good at his job/a valuable employee in other ways though..is it worth giving him another chance..?...if something could be worked out between you both then that would benefit you and also prevent him from becoming unemployed...

[Kizzy]

If you worry about the mental health of men don't remove his income, give him a formal warning if you've not already and suggest that he's at serious risk if he continues to go against instruction without consultation.
And instruct your garage to only release cars with your verbal consent.

[bots]

ok so I own a few businesses...one of which is a taxi / minibuses business

so I get a driver dropped off at his house and tell him we will get a taxi to him for tomorrows shift....he asks me where is a particular I tell him its being fixed in the mechanics and should be ready tomorrow at 12....I tell him the day driver will be picking that taxi up from the garage at 12 and we will get a taxi to him ready for his 5pm shift tomorrow

ok so the next day the driver on day shift goes to the garage at 12 to get this car that's been fixed and its gone.....so we immediately suspect the other driver has taken it....he doesn't answer his phone all day ....I send a driver around there and he has taken the car from the mechanics without permission.....the car is locked outside his house...my drivers knocks for 10 minutes and he doesn't answer...eventually after endless calls and texts he answers ....I tell him to give the key to the driver....he gets shirty tries to talk over me...I say we haven't got time we have fares to pick up ...give him the key....he then says hes put £20 fuel in the car and wants his money back....so we check the car and get a receipt and give his his £20 and take the car....he claims I as the owner told him to collect the car from the garage, which is a lie

now the question is, is this a sackable offence? this is not the first or second time hes done this....hes done it many times..why does he do it? because he wants to choose what car he gets and doesn't listen to me even though I own the cars and the business

ive never had this problem with other drivers to this extent though it is surprising how fussy they are about what cars...several drivers simply wont drive 6+ seaters....but to actually take a car from a mechanics garage without permission is surely totally unacceptable

im undecided whether to suspend him or sack him to be honest

The way to approach it would be by the tried and trusted formal warnings procedure.

2 verbal warnings followed by a written warning. Go through this procedure and he can't claim he wasn't aware. If he is a serial offender, the warnings will come quick enough

[user104658]

Yeah given thought I do sort of agree - maybe give him the chance to sign something basically outlining what's expected of him and what is and isn't OK (causing damage to vehicles or taking them without permission etc.) and then if he refuses to sign it you can just tell him you won't be using him any more. Can't really be more fair than that. Also means you're not just stripping him of an income, if he doesn't want to agree to your terms then that's his choice - he's really agreeing to quit, rather than being fired.

[the truth]

still on the fence.....I may try the final warning letter. Though hes made plenty more mistakes than this, failing to turn up for his school contract a few times ....cutting leather from my seats? endlessly contra drivers on their days off about what car he can have, nagging to have the phone calls diverted to him when hes on after the taxi controller goes to bed....several strange incidents

[Glenn.]

If you haven't given him sufficient warnings, i.e verbal, written warnings you can sack them.