Rape by fraud?

[Northern Monkey]

So you tell a woman or man that you're a city banker instead of telling them you actually work in Maccy D's so they'll sleep with you.
Is this rape?
Well according to some feminists it should be illegal and a prisonable offence called 'rape by fraud'
47cxdpL34wo

What do you think?Is this 'rape by fraud'? Or just some crazy women wanting revenge for being lied to?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sounds ligit

[Kizzy]

What? I can't see the vid but that sounds really mercenary.

[Niamh.]

according to some idiots would be more accurate I think

[Benjamin]

If some woman sleeps with a man only because she thinks he is wealthy/a big city banker then that just makes her incredibly shallow. She still willingly slept with the man, regardless, he never forced her to sleep with him. So no, just some crazy bitches looking for something else to whine about.

[Toy Soldier]

LOL... Because it's OK to have sex with someone you otherwise wouldn't be interested in, because you believe them to be rich.

IMO if anyone gets involved with someone, presumably pretending to like or love them, purely to get their hands on that person's money... THAT should be considered fraud. No?

[Ninastar]

If some woman sleeps with a man only because she thinks he is wealthy/a big city banker then that just makes her incredibly shallow. She still willingly slept with the man, regardless, he never forced her to sleep with him. So no, just some crazy bitches looking for something else to whine about.

pretty much this

[Shaun]

Agreed with Ben.

[Mystic Mock]

It's fraud from the woman trying to sleep with the man, there's no rape involved though.:joker:

Seriously some feminists need help if this is their stances on things, and the man hating has got to stop too.:umm2:

Misandry isn't cool.

[Joyce M Short]

The example about pretending you're a CitiBank Banker, which is what I think Eyeball Paul was referring to, would not be a prosecutorial case under any rape by fraud law for two reasons....

1. "Reasonable" behavior is required of any victim in any criminal action. Jumping into bed with someone you just met would not pass the litmus test of "reasonable" behavior. If a person does not take reasonable measures to protect them self, no law will protect them. I can only assume, in this example, that the person has conducted no due diligence to establish the facts. If, despite the victim's "reasonable" efforts to protect them self, the offender induces sex through the use of a hoax, sexaul assault, not seduction, is taking place.

2. Substantial proof is needed to prosecute any crime. Sexual Assault by Fraud is no different. You need to convince the police, the Prosecutor, the Grand Jury, the Judge and a jury of your peers, that a crime indeed took place. This is a pretty high bar of proof. Simply a "he-said, she'said" won't do the trick.

[lostalex]

if it's rape, then it's also rape for a woman to wear a wonder bra or spanx or a ton of make-up. So many men go home with women when it's dark and he's had a few drinks and he thinks he's going to bed with a gorgeous woman with big breast and a slim waist. only to wake up the next morning and see the truth...

[Toy Soldier]

So many men go home with women when it's dark and he's had a few drinks and he thinks he's going to bed with a gorgeous woman with big breast and a slim waist. only to wake up the next morning and see the truth...

Or kirklancaster, or LeatherTrumpet...

[arista]

What? I can't see the vid but that sounds really mercenary.


There is not one
& thread has no link?

[Northern Monkey]

There is not one
& thread has no link?

Thats weird.Works on my phone.Just something i saw on YT and could'nt believe what i was seeing.
http://youtu.be/47cxdpL34wo

[Toy Soldier]

What? I can't see the vid but that sounds really mercenary.
What sounds mercenary by the way? Pretending to be rich to get someone to have sex with you, or having sex with someone because you believe them to be rich? It sounds about even to me. These people are made for each other :joker:.

[waterhog]

Or kirklancaster, or LeatherTrumpet...
happened to me many of a times.


but at the end of the day a key to this happening is alcohol as it effects your judgement.

telling porkys is one thing but you have to think where am i ? is this person telling the truth ? is my judgment in the correct frame to make the correct choice. sadly that is what matters most.

my biggest porky was when this tune came on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYoo4mFWCcQ and i told the lovely lady i was with - this song was wrote on me :joker:

[Toy Soldier]

happened to me many of a times.


:joker: :joker: :joker:

[Northern Monkey]

Lol.Back in the nineties i had a mate who used to tell chicks he had a Golf GTI.That was enough back then:laugh:

[Toy Soldier]

Lol.Back in the nineties i had a mate who used to tell chicks he had a Golf GTI.That was enough back then[emoji23]
Simpler times! "Hey baby, I've got a Nokia 3210, wanna play with my snake?"

A shiney pikachu trading card was good enough for a blowjob when I was a teenager.

[Crimson Dynamo]

someone delete this thread before The Truth sees it and has a seizure

[Ross.]

someone delete this thread before The Truth sees it and has a seizure

:joker::joker:

[Toy Soldier]

someone delete this thread before The Truth sees it and has a seizure
It's called an "orgasm", LT.

[Kizzy]

What sounds mercenary by the way? Pretending to be rich to get someone to have sex with you, or having sex with someone because you believe them to be rich? It sounds about even to me. These people are made for each other :joker:.

The girl, women know men always exaggerate to get a date, a guy once told me he had a capri then picked me up in a battered austin princess ;)
Half the fun is uncovering the little fibs :laugh:

[JoshBB]

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.

[Toy Soldier]

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.
And if they have sex with a man because they think he is rich hoping to benefit from that fact by providing sexual favours, that is prostitution. Surely?

[Kizzy]

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.

Conditions, what conditions? it's sex not a proposal of marriage, there's no contract to be signed.

[Toy Soldier]

I would also point out Josh, that if what youre saying is taken as true, then any woman who has sex with a man who has not seen her without make-up on is "raping him".

It's nonsense. People lie about all sorts of things. The correct course of action is, only have sex with someone if you feel sexually attracted to them and want to have sex. No ulterior motives. Then it isn't a problem.

[JoshBB]

Conditions, what conditions? it's sex not a proposal of marriage, there's no contract to be signed.

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.

[JoshBB]

I would also point out Josh, that if what youre saying is taken as true, then any woman who has sex with a man who has not seen her without make-up on is "raping him".

It's nonsense. People lie about all sorts of things. The correct course of action is, only have sex with someone if you feel sexually attracted to them and want to have sex. No ulterior motives. Then it isn't a problem.

Not at all. In the situation mentioned the person explicitly told a lie for sex. If a guy has not seen a woman without makeup and has sex with them, it would only technically be rape if she lied about what she looked like without makeup or something like that.

[Kizzy]

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.

It wasn't rape in any sense of the word.

[Liam-]

No-one is forcing these women to jump into bed with them, if they want to get it on with someone because they think they're rich or successful but in reality the guy isn't, then more fool them and their shallowness imo.

[Kyle]

:joker: :joker: :joker:

The thread that keeps on giving.

I'm going to bookmark this one.

[Toy Soldier]

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.
I will agree with you ONLY on the premise that the woman has explicitly stated before engaging in sexual intercourse that they are only doing it because they believe the man to be wealthy.

Which is a technicality; I doubt that has happened very often, if ever.

[RichardG]

Isn't rape when you force someone have sex with you against their will?? Regardless of what either one said to each other beforehand, so long as they both consented then I don't see how it could be classified as rape. Perhaps it's morally questionable to lie about such a thing to try and get someone to sleep with you but so long as he doesn't use that reason as an excuse to 'push' or 'force' himself onto her - physically or mentally - and she fully accepts the sex, then I guess I don't really see an actual legal problem here.

[Niamh.]

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.

and is it rape if it's the other way round and it's the woman who lied? :think:

[Niamh.]

Josh I can't believe someone actually agreed with this :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

It ain't rape - it's prostitution.

[Niamh.]

Also all you people comparing it to a woman wearing make up instead of a like for like situation as if a man would never sleep with a woman because he was after her money

[Toy Soldier]

Also all you people comparing it to a woman wearing make up instead of a like for like situation as if a man would never sleep with a woman because he was after her money
Fair point, lots of cougars around these days :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

#justiceforgolddiggers

[Toy Soldier]

Josh I can't believe someone actually agreed with this [emoji23]
Josh's heart is always in the right place!

I think the only problem is distinguishing between what's moral and what should actually be legislated against. No one would argue that lying to get sex is a crappy thing to do (and also INCREDIBLY sad...) but then, having sex with someone just because they're (supposedly) rich if you wouldn't have wanted to otherwise is pretty crappy too... So it sort of cancels out for me on the morality scales :joker:.

I mean, pretending to be a millionaire for sex is bad, but surely it's much better than pretending that you love someone for sex? And how many people do that!

[DylanD]

So you tell a woman or man that you're a city banker instead of telling them you actually work in Maccy D's so they'll sleep with you.
Is this rape?
Well according to some feminists it should be illegal and a prisonable offence called 'rape by fraud'
http://youtu.be/47cxdpL34wo

What do you think?Is this 'rape by fraud'? Or just some crazy women wanting revenge for being lied to?
Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.

[Northern Monkey]

Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.You make very good points.But the question is'nt wether lying is moral,It's not nice to be lied to but the question is wether it is a form of rape and should be illegal and a prisonable offence.
Not judging,Just asking the question.
My opinion is that lying to impress somebody is not nice but it is not and should not be illegal.If it was then anybody who lies to their GF/BF would end up in court whenever they had a falling out.It would open up a whole can of worms in the courts when couples break up and hate each other.Divorce hearings would be full of 'rape fraud' accusations.

[Toy Soldier]

Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.

Lying and pretending to be someone you're not isn't moral, I wouldn't be ok with it, it's a ****ty thing to do... But would I make it illegal or brand the person who did it as a rapist?? Errrr let me think. No. That would be an absolutely behemoth overreaction. People lie. If we start locking them up for it the world will be pretty empty.

Wife: "I'm leaving you... I'm not happy. I've fallen out of love with you."
Husband: "but we had sex last night... And you said you loved me!"
Wife: "I'm sorry, I lied. I don't love you."
Husband: "you lied?? Rape! False pretences! I have been violated, you beast, off to jail with you!"

[Ninastar]

all men are evil!!!! i read something once that said 90% of men want to rape so it must be true!!!

[MTVN]

To play devil's advocate here, we do criminalise lying all the time in cases like fraud, libel, slander etc. It's an offence to lie if you're extracting material gain from someone or if you're ruining their reputation so it's not that big a leap for it to be an offence based on causing emotional trauma. I get the sense that this is not really about one night stands where someone pretends to be rich to help his chances with a girl, but more about cases which could involve long-term deception which prey on someone's vulnerability. Cases more akin to this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Allen_Minsky) who would trick women into having sex with him thinking they were paying a sexual bribe to save a relative from non-existent legal trouble. It obviously would be extremely difficult to draw that line when a relatively harmless lie becomes a criminal act though.

[Ammi]

..the vid isn't showing for me so it's hard to get the context of this exactly but rape is without consent and this surely would be with consent even if that person has sais that they're something/someone they're not..they've only not exactly consented to the 'persona' they are...

[Joyce M Short]

EyeBallPaul

You make a very good point....

"But the question is'nt wether lying is moral,It's not nice to be lied to but the question is wether it is a form of rape and should be illegal and a prisonable offence.
Not judging,Just asking the question."

So here's your answer:

Lying is not a crime. Morally reprehensible, but not criminal. Here's when it becomes a crime..... when it's used as a means to cause harm to someone.

So lying to attract a person is not prosecutorial. But lying to engage in a sexual act is prosecutorial because it induces consent to the sexual act that the victim would not otherwise consent to. They were deprived of their consent. The did not agree to their consent under the law.

[Joyce M Short]

Here's where the line is drawn...

Cases that are prosecutorial require substantial proof. The police and Prosecutor must be convinced that the proof will actually sustain an indictment. It can't be a he-said, she said.

In addition, in all crimes, the victim must have behaved in a manner that is deemed to be "reasonable" behavior. And juries make determinations about that criteria all the time. Sexual Assault by Fraud cases would not be unique in that regard.

[Joyce M Short]

Chaos-

Actually, the statistic is 30%, and it has been tested 3 times. Once in California, in Canada and, most recently at the University of Nebraska where male college students were asked if they would force a woman to have sex with them if they thought they could get a way with it, with no repercussions.

When the description was changed to include the term rape, however, the response dropped to 13%, therefore, many men do not understand that forcing a woman to have sex with them is rape.

[Joyce M Short]

Lying and pretending to be someone you're not isn't moral, I wouldn't be ok with it, it's a ****ty thing to do... But would I make it illegal or brand the person who did it as a rapist?? Errrr let me think. No. That would be an absolutely behemoth overreaction. People lie. If we start locking them up for it the world will be pretty empty.

Wife: "I'm leaving you... I'm not happy. I've fallen out of love with you."
Husband: "but we had sex last night... And you said you loved me!"
Wife: "I'm sorry, I lied. I don't love you."
Husband: "you lied?? Rape! False pretences! I have been violated, you beast, off to jail with you!"
Toy Soldier_

You're being ridiculous. People have a right to change their mind. The person she had sex with was her husband, and she knew it was her husband. He did not conduct "false personation" to have sex with her.

[Joyce M Short]

Isn't rape when you force someone have sex with you against their will?? Regardless of what either one said to each other beforehand, so long as they both consented then I don't see how it could be classified as rape. Perhaps it's morally questionable to lie about such a thing to try and get someone to sleep with you but so long as he doesn't use that reason as an excuse to 'push' or 'force' himself onto her - physically or mentally - and she fully accepts the sex, then I guess I don't really see an actual legal problem here.
In most states, consent is ineffective (legal ease for not-valid) if induced by deception. This basically means that no consent is given when sex is induced by deception.

In all acts of fraud, the victim provides what seems to be consent because they have yet to realize they have been tricked. Example- Bernie Madoff defrauded thousands of people of their assets. They not only agreed to give him thier money, they actually called their brokers or bankers and transferred funds in Madoff-managed accounts. But we have recognized that the deception invalidated their consent, and deemed their consent, no consent at all.

[Toy Soldier]

Toy Soldier_

You're being ridiculous. People have a right to change their mind. The person she had sex with was her husband, and she knew it was her husband. He did not conduct "false personation" to have sex with her.

I am not being ridiculous at all - please give me valid reasoning for why it is more emotionally damaging to pretend to be in a high paying job in order to have sex with someone than it is to pretend to love someone in order to have sex with them?

Not about changing their mind ; in this hypothetical scenario, the partner who was planning to leave had known for months that they no longer loved their partner and had been planning to tell them for weeks. But when wanting sex they would tell their partner; "I love you" in order to encourage them into sexual activity.

How is that any different?

Here's another flipped example: what if a woman (as many women do) was to lie about her age? She tells some guy in a club that she's 35 and he then has sex with her, he then later finds out that she's 41,and this guy has sworn that he'll never have sex with anyone over the age of 40.

She has now raped him, correct?

I mean, not having sex with anyone over 40 would be a ridiculous stance is he was physically attracted to her anyway, but no more ridiculous than only having sex with "rich people".

But your stance is - and seriously now - that this woman who was embarrassed about her age, or this man who was embarrassed about his income, should be charged with a sexual assault? It's ****ing madness. If you choose to sleep with people you don't know (consensually!) then you accept that you don't know them.

[Toy Soldier]

What about people who are in relationships going out looking for sex with others and telling them that they're single when they're not? Are they rapists?

[Toy Soldier]

Hold on... So... When I was 13 and told a girl that I was a black belt in karate and had a dirt bike to impress her so that she would kiss me, was I actually sexually assaulting her?? ****, should I be on some sort of register?

[Niamh.]

Hold on... So... When I was 13 and told a girl that I was a black belt in karate and had a dirt bike to impress her so that she would kiss me, was I actually sexually assaulting her?? ****, should I be on some sort of register?

I'm disgusted with you TS :nono:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think all men should be accused of rape and then this way we catch 100% of rapists


disgusting creatures

[Northern Monkey]

EyeBallPaul

You make a very good point....

"But the question is'nt wether lying is moral,It's not nice to be lied to but the question is wether it is a form of rape and should be illegal and a prisonable offence.
Not judging,Just asking the question."

So here's your answer:

Lying is not a crime. Morally reprehensible, but not criminal. Here's when it becomes a crime..... when it's used as a means to cause harm to someone.

So lying to attract a person is not prosecutorial. But lying to engage in a sexual act is prosecutorial because it induces consent to the sexual act that the victim would not otherwise consent to. They were deprived of their consent. The did not agree to their consent under the law.So by this reasoning.The person being lied to has no responsibilty for their own actions or their own judgement.As soon as they're lied to that's it,All personal responsibility is gone,They cannot give consent,All responsibilty for what they do with their own body is passed over to the the person lying.
I can't agree.It is up to anybody to judge the situation for themselves and decide wether they give consent or not.That is our own responsibity and choice.
Being forced without consent or choice is then when it becomes rape.
If i took the risk of jumping onto a railway track thinking it was safe then i got hit by a train and somehow survived i would'nt blame the train driver.I took a risk which is something we all do when we consent to sleep with a person we don't know.They could be lying through their teeth to us but it is up to us as individuals as to wether we take that risk or not.Imo.

[Niamh.]

I think the problem here is that the definition of "rape" is being changed. Rape is forcing someone to have sex against their will and that's how it should stay imo

[Northern Monkey]

I think the problem here is that the definition of "rape" is being changed. Rape is forcing someone to have sex against their will and that's how it should stay imo

I agree.

[Toy Soldier]

I think the problem here is that the definition of "rape" is being changed. Rape is forcing someone to have sex against their will and that's how it should stay imo

I sometimes wonder if there's some sort of agenda to describe everything as "rape" in an attempt to actually dilute the term, and make ACTUAL rape seem less serious? I can't think of any other explanation :shrug:.

I can almost accept it being some sort of fraud, but it's not a rape or a sexual assault of any kind.

And like I said earlier - if you consider that to be fraud, then you sort of have to wonder... is the woman sleeping with someone just because he's rich (unless she's made it clear that it's her reason beforehand) not also fraud to the same degree? Hmmm.

[Niamh.]

I sometimes wonder if there's some sort of agenda to describe everything as "rape" in an attempt to actually dilute the term, and make ACTUAL rape seem less serious? I can't think of any other explanation :shrug:.

I can almost accept it being some sort of fraud, but it's not a rape or a sexual assault of any kind.

And like I said earlier - if you consider that to be fraud, then you sort of have to wonder... is the woman sleeping with someone just because he's rich (unless she's made it clear that it's her reason beforehand) not also fraud to the same degree? Hmmm.

Yes, that's actually what I was thinking myself aswell.

It might be morally wrong to lie to someone to get them into bed but you still choose to do it so it's not rape by any stretch of the imagination and it's pretty insulting to victims of actual rape to suggest that it's anywhere even near what they went through

[bots]

I sometimes wonder if there's some sort of agenda to describe everything as "rape" in an attempt to actually dilute the term, and make ACTUAL rape seem less serious? I can't think of any other explanation :shrug:.

I can almost accept it being some sort of fraud, but it's not a rape or a sexual assault of any kind.

And like I said earlier - if you consider that to be fraud, then you sort of have to wonder... is the woman sleeping with someone just because he's rich (unless she's made it clear that it's her reason beforehand) not also fraud to the same degree? Hmmm.

Best point of the thread, not here for people getting out of rape on a technicality based on whether someone was informed or not about the attackers history

[Joyce M Short]

So you tell a woman or man that you're a city banker instead of telling them you actually work in Maccy D's so they'll sleep with you.
Is this rape?
Well according to some feminists it should be illegal and a prisonable offence called 'rape by fraud'
47cxdpL34wo

What do you think?Is this 'rape by fraud'? Or just some crazy women wanting revenge for being lied to?
The claims in this video are balderdash. For one thing, Rape by Fraud has nothing to do with being "jilted."

And my recommendation about checking someone's ID when you meet them by internet dating is totally mischaracterized. It should be standard procedure to check the background of anyone you meet through internet dating. Don't wait 'til you're on your way to the bedroom.

Paul is apparently not at all in synch with the concept that every human being under the sun has the right to self determination over what they do with their body. Lies and manipulation strip you of your ability to knowingly consent.

Anyone wanting further information should read my book, Carnal Abuse By Deceit, which Paul, seems not to have done, thought he clearly expresses that he has a firm grasp on what I'm saying..... Absurd!

[smudgie]

Strewth..
Where do we draw the line, what about us poor old housewives that are in bed with Poldark, have a great romp and then realise we were fantasising and it's the tried and tested hubby.
Have we cheated On said hubby?
Have we raped said Hubby!
Have we just had a great romp and who gives a chuff.



Seriously, if you are prepared to have a bonk with someone you think is a banker then get upset because he/she flips burgers at a fast food joint, put it down to one of life's experiences and get back out there on the prowl.

[Z]

Lol.

[Livia]

I only slept with Leather Trumpet because he said he worked in Hedge Funds. Turns out he doesn't even have a hedge. B*stard...

[Northern Monkey]

The claims in this video are balderdash. For one thing, Rape by Fraud has nothing to do with being "jilted."

And my recommendation about checking someone's ID when you meet them by internet dating is totally mischaracterized. It should be standard procedure to check the background of anyone you meet through internet dating. Don't wait 'til you're on your way to the bedroom.

Paul is apparently not at all in synch with the concept that every human being under the sun has the right to self determination over what they do with their body. Lies and manipulation strip you of your ability to knowingly consent.

Anyone wanting further information should read my book, Carnal Abuse By Deceit, which Paul, seems not to have done, thought he clearly expresses that he has a firm grasp on what I'm saying..... Absurd!Well i agreed with everything you said up until this line 'Lies and manipulation strip you of your ability to knowingly consent'.We as humans have the ability to consent or not whatever lies somebody is telling us.It is up to us to judge wether somebody actually is rich or infact works in McDonalds and is lying(not that being rich should be a reason to sleep with somebody).That is our responsbilty imo.I think we will have to agree to disagree on that.

[Toy Soldier]

I only slept with Leather Trumpet because he said he worked in Hedge Funds. Turns out he doesn't even have a hedge. B*stard...

He did, but he cut it down so that he could get a better view at the ladies sunbathing in the next door garden.

[smudgie]

I only slept with Leather Trumpet because he said he worked in Hedge Funds. Turns out he doesn't even have a hedge. B*stard...

Trumpets Strumpet :idc:

[Livia]

Working on the lawsuit even as we speak...

[Toy Soldier]

Kirk told me that he was Nigel Farage but he had actually just put on an old spitting image mask. I wanted to be close to the power, but all I got were broken dreams and a broken coccyx.

[Joyce M Short]

Strewth..
Where do we draw the line, what about us poor old housewives that are in bed with Poldark, have a great romp and then realise we were fantasising and it's the tried and tested hubby.
Have we cheated On said hubby?
Have we raped said Hubby!
Have we just had a great romp and who gives a chuff.



Seriously, if you are prepared to have a bonk with someone you think is a banker then get upset because he/she flips burgers at a fast food joint, put it down to one of life's experiences and get back out there on the prowl.
Romps with bankers vs McDonald burger flippers is not what sexual assault by fraud is about. in fact, romps are not what it's about either.

[JoshBB]

and is it rape if it's the other way round and it's the woman who lied? :think:

Yes of course it would be.

I'm not going to bother replying to this thread anymore because it is obvious that nobody agrees with me though I have my opinions and I will stick with them :)

[Joyce M Short]

Well i agreed with everything you said up until this line 'Lies and manipulation strip you of your ability to knowingly consent'.We as humans have the ability to consent or not whatever lies somebody is telling us.It is up to us to judge wether somebody actually is rich or infact works in McDonalds and is lying(not that being rich should be a reason to sleep with somebody).That is our responsbilty imo.I think we will have to agree to disagree on that.
You really need to drop the banker vs McDonald Burger flipper thingy. That's not a case of rape by fraud.

In all cases of fraud, the victim appears to be giving consent because they are not "knowing" and are fooled into consent. But in every jurisdiction across the globe, CONSENT is INVALID when obtained by FRAUD.

[Joyce M Short]

Yes, that's actually what I was thinking myself aswell.

It might be morally wrong to lie to someone to get them into bed but you still choose to do it so it's not rape by any stretch of the imagination and it's pretty insulting to victims of actual rape to suggest that it's anywhere even near what they went through
Fraud is not just a crime that stands alone. It's a tool that is used to carry out a crime. Using fraud to steal something is theft by fraud. Using fraud to sexually assault someone is sexual assault by fraud.

When you lie to attract someone, you are not conducting a crime. When you lie to secure sex it is a crime because all sex requires consent and consent is INVALID when induced by DECEPTION.

Rape, sexual assault, is not only so when committed through violence. Violence is another tool that invalidates consent. Doping, Intoxicating, coercing and duping are all tools to sexually assault.

[Joyce M Short]

Yes of course it would be.

I'm not going to bother replying to this thread anymore because it is obvious that nobody agrees with me though I have my opinions and I will stick with them :)
JoshBB-

You're correct. There are cases in London where women were tried, and convicted of rape by fraud.

[Ammi]

JoshBB-

You're correct. There are cases in London where women were tried, and convicted of rape by fraud.

..do you have any website links to those cases, Joyce..?...it would be interesting to read about them...

[Livia]

A woman cannot be convicted of rape in the UK unless she has a penis. She can be convicted of accessory to rape, or she can be convicted of sexual assault.

[Niamh.]

Fraud is not just a crime that stands alone. It's a tool that is used to carry out a crime. Using fraud to steal something is theft by fraud. Using fraud to sexually assault someone is sexual assault by fraud.

When you lie to attract someone, you are not conducting a crime. When you lie to secure sex it is a crime because all sex requires consent and consent is INVALID when induced by DECEPTION.

Rape, sexual assault, is not only so when committed through violence. Violence is another tool that invalidates consent. Doping, Intoxicating, coercing and duping are all tools to sexually assault.

I think you're doing a disservice to women and to genuine rape victims by trying to liken the two, personally and I say that as a woman

[the truth]

If some woman sleeps with a man only because she thinks he is wealthy/a big city banker then that just makes her incredibly shallow. She still willingly slept with the man, regardless, he never forced her to sleep with him. So no, just some crazy bitches looking for something else to whine about. yet another absurd example of what evil lies feminism truly is