View Full Version : Lowering standards to get women in fireservice+army
the truth
13-05-2015, 12:31 AM
Perils of the push for female firefighters
by betsy mcaughey - A WOMAN
(a man wouldn't be allowed to write such a report as hed be wrongly called a sexist pig)
If this is how bad "positive" discrimination gets....shouldn't we get old folks into the fire service because we cant discriminate against them and yes the disabled too....change all the qualifications in case these groups sue too?
yet another insane dangerous load of nonsense as a result of radical liberalism ....equal opportunity doesn't mean equal...no one is equal everyone is different, standards should never be lowered...innocent people will die again here because of pandering to feminism......to those absurd feminists I ask, if you and your family were in a burning building, would you really rather the woman who couldn't pass the tests to come and save you? if you say yes, I will never believe you
May 5, 2015 | 8:06pm
Perils of the push for female firefighters
Rebecca Wax
Photo: J.C. Rice
If you’re ever trapped in a burning building, just pray the firefighter climbing up to rescue you isn’t Rebecca Wax. Or someone like her, who’s been given an EZ-Pass through firefighting training for the sake of gender equity.
This week Wax, who repeatedly flunked the rigorous physical test required by the New York City Fire Department, will graduate anyway, The Post reported.
All over the nation, fire departments are easing physical standards, in response to litigation to increase the number of women firefighters.
It’s roiling fire departments, and the turmoil is a preview of what’s to come for the US military, which has committed to opening all combat roles to women by 2016.
Wax tried six times to pass New York’s Functional Skills Test within the 17-minute, 50-second deadline. Five times she couldn’t finish at all; on the sixth try, she needed 22 minutes. Women’s groups claim the test is needlessly difficult and unfairly bars women.
Trainees wearing 50 pounds of gear and breathing through an air tank must climb six stories, raise ladders, break down doors and drag a dummy through a dark tunnel, all at breakneck speed. Sounds like firefighting.
The city’s test is tougher than some tests elsewhere, but city buildings are higher. Nevertheless, Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro gave Wax a pass because she had good performance on other measures, including academic tests.
Nigro wants to significantly boost the number of women in the FDNY — now only 0.5 percent of the rank-and-file — and he wants to do it before he’s staring at a court order.
Court orders are compelling Chicago to relax its standards. Two federal class-action lawsuits brought by women who flunked that city’s firefighting tests claimed that the exams required more than what is actually needed to be an effective firefighter.
Women account for 3.4 percent of the Chicago force, compared with 5.7 percent of firefighters nationally. Chicago authorities settled the case last month, admitting into training the previously rejected women and paying millions to others no longer eligible.
In Los Angeles, Mayor Eric Garcetti is plainly unhappy with this year’s all-male class of firefighting graduates.
There were four women among the 44 recruits who started last December, but they all dropped out.
Desperate to diversify, Garcetti paid the RAND Corp. a whopping $270,000 for advice. RAND’s brilliant insight was that LA should recruit women athletes who can take the grueling training. Well, duh!
That’s what San Marcos, Calif., learned upon hiring Siene Freeman.
Several other female recruits had washed out, but for her — a former marathoner and weight-lifter — the training was a piece of cake.
Municipalities that already have women firefighters are being hit with lawsuits.
But more often these are about sexual harassment rather than qualifications.
This year alone, Philadelphia, Tampa and at least a dozen other cities are being sued for allowing a culture of bawdy, suggestive behavior. Tampa’s fire department personnel chief, known as “Uncle Touchy,” just resigned after admitting he had hugged, massaged and flirted with female firefighters.
Many departments face the practical problem that firefighters — male and female — work 24 hour shifts, and sleep in an open bunk room, with no privacy curtains or separate changing area.
That’s hardly conducive for a professional working environment. Nigro says he is going to remedy these problems in New York.
Then again, the Tampa female firefighters are fanning the flames.
To raise money for burn victims, they put out a calendar. Trouble is, some of them posed in bikinis, sending a mixed message.
The touchy issue of women in traditional men’s occupations will be center stage this fall, when the Pentagon announces its “gender-neutral” rules for military assignments.
Some feminists argue that the Marine Corps’ grueling Combat Endurance Test is more of an “initiation rite” than a fair appraisal of physical ability, the same argument Wax’s supporters use about New York’s firefighting exam.
Joint Chiefs Chairman Martin Dempsey ominously announced at a Pentagon briefing that if “a particular standard is so high that a woman couldn’t make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and explain . . . does it really have to be that high?”
Military brass — like officials overseeing New York’s fire department — are too ready to lower standards, never mind the consequences in the field.
Is that really a victory for women?
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 10:38 AM
My husband is a Fire Fighter and there are 3 women Fire Fighters at his station (one is the Driver) and they all had to pass the same medicals as he did and complete the same training :shrug:
Kizzy
13-05-2015, 10:59 AM
No link?
Wax tried six times to pass New York’s Functional Skills Test within the 17-minute, 50-second deadline. Five times she couldn’t finish at all; on the sixth try, she needed 22 minutes. Women’s groups claim the test is needlessly difficult and unfairly bars women.
Trainees wearing 50 pounds of gear and breathing through an air tank must climb six stories, raise ladders, break down doors and drag a dummy through a dark tunnel, all at breakneck speed. Sounds like firefighting.'
Can't deny her tenacity.
the truth
13-05-2015, 12:14 PM
My husband is a Fire Fighter and there are 3 women Fire Fighters at his station (one is the Driver) and they all had to pass the same medicals as he did and complete the same training :shrug:that's great. but in this case and across America they have had to lower the standards to let women like this into the fire service , which is an absolute disgrace
the truth
13-05-2015, 12:16 PM
No link?
Wax tried six times to pass New York’s Functional Skills Test within the 17-minute, 50-second deadline. Five times she couldn’t finish at all; on the sixth try, she needed 22 minutes. Women’s groups claim the test is needlessly difficult and unfairly bars women.
Trainees wearing 50 pounds of gear and breathing through an air tank must climb six stories, raise ladders, break down doors and drag a dummy through a dark tunnel, all at breakneck speed. Sounds like firefighting.'
Can't deny her tenacity.
tenacity isn't enough, everyone should pass the tests without the tests having to be lowered just to give into the demands of the feminists.....innocent people will get injured and innocent people will die as a result of this disgusting decision
Kazanne
13-05-2015, 12:18 PM
My husband is a Fire Fighter and there are 3 women Fire Fighters at his station (one is the Driver) and they all had to pass the same medicals as he did and complete the same training :shrug:
This is the truth,my brother is also a firefighter and the women are trained the same as the men.
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 12:21 PM
that's great. but in this case and across America they have had to lower the standards to let women like this into the fire service , which is an absolute disgrace
Well, I don't know much about what goes on in America in regards to how they're trained but my husband reckons that they're training isn't as good over there anyway and that they already have far higher death rates in the Fire service because they're too gung ho and don't follow proper procedures like they do here and in Britain
Kizzy
13-05-2015, 12:29 PM
Well, I don't know much about what goes on in America in regards to how they're trained but my husband reckons that they're training isn't as good over there anyway and that they already have far higher death rates in the Fire service because they're too gung ho and don't follow proper procedures like they do here and in Britain
Well there you go a blend of adherence to safety procedure, strength and teamwork seems to be the answer.
Maybe the Americans could learn something from the British model?
Cherie
13-05-2015, 12:37 PM
Well there you go a blend of adherence to safety procedure, strength and teamwork seems to be the answer.
Maybe the Americans could learn something from the British model?
The Irish model Kizzy :fist:
Kizzy
13-05-2015, 12:41 PM
The Irish model Kizzy :fist:
The UK model?... :/ #shamed
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 12:46 PM
The UK model?... :/ #shamed
Ireland isn't part of the Uk :fist: Uk and Irish :tongue:
Men and women both face the same challenges/perils when fighting fires so their training has to be identical.
I had to do some basic search and rescue training in the dim and distant past that was organised by the fire service, and hell, its tough. They get nothing but respect from me.
Men and women both face the same challenges/perils when fighting fires so their training has to be identical.
I had to do some basic search and rescue training in the dim and distant past that was organised by the fire service, and hell, its tough. They get nothing but respect from me.
...indeed and as well as the physical, it's also the emotional as well with the things they must see...
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 12:58 PM
...indeed and as well as the physical, it's also the emotional as well with the things they must see...
And it isn't all about the physical either. The fire service work in teams, they don't all rush into burning buildings dragging out bodies, the driver for example is in charge of operating the pumps
And it isn't all about the physical either. The fire service work in teams, they don't all rush into burning buildings dragging out bodies, the driver for example is in charge of operating the pumps
...yeah it's a total trust/teamwork thing and I would think that there is a huge bond between them ..I think that one of the worst things must be, in terms of what they see, road traffic accidents and having to get the people out, whatever the injuries...
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 01:04 PM
...yeah it's a total trust/teamwork thing and I would think that there is a huge bond between them ..I think that one of the worst things must be, in terms of what they see, road traffic accidents and having to get the people out, whatever the injuries...
Yeah, Gav gets called to more road traffic accidents then house fires
Kizzy
13-05-2015, 01:05 PM
Ireland isn't part of the Uk :fist: Uk and Irish :tongue:
:facepalm: I give up :laugh:
Yeah, Gav gets called to more road traffic accidents then house fires
..I would think that with a road traffic accident, it wouldn't be the same type of 'adrenalin' thing so you were really fully absorbing the horror of it all...I just can't imagine what it would be like to be one of the first to arrive at a huge pile up with multiple deaths and horrific injuries...
the truth
13-05-2015, 01:38 PM
Well, I don't know much about what goes on in America in regards to how they're trained but my husband reckons that they're training isn't as good over there anyway and that they already have far higher death rates in the Fire service because they're too gung ho and don't follow proper procedures like they do here and in Britain
this story is about America? why are you choosing to ignore that fact?
the truth
13-05-2015, 01:40 PM
Men and women both face the same challenges/perils when fighting fires so their training has to be identical.
I had to do some basic search and rescue training in the dim and distant past that was organised by the fire service, and hell, its tough. They get nothing but respect from me.
that is untrue , in America. if youd actually bothered reading the report at the top of this page youd know that. lives will be lost as they had to lower the standards to let this women.; this has happened across america
the truth
13-05-2015, 01:41 PM
...yeah it's a total trust/teamwork thing and I would think that there is a huge bond between them ..I think that one of the worst things must be, in terms of what they see, road traffic accidents and having to get the people out, whatever the injuries...
they had to lower the standards to let this woman in...this puts everyones life at more risk and destroys the teamwork you talk about.
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 01:42 PM
this story is about America? why are you choosing to ignore that fact?
I'm hardly ignoring that fact when I mentioned America in the post of mine which you quoted :laugh:
Serious question Truth, do you honestly believe that "feminazis" as you like to call them, are what's most wrong with the world today?
Crimson Dynamo
13-05-2015, 01:45 PM
My husband is a Fire Fighter and there are 3 women Fire Fighters at his station (one is the Driver) and they all had to pass the same medicals as he did and complete the same training :shrug:
one....is....the...driver?? :omgno:
what kind of chilling revelation is this?
http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Fire-engine1.thumb.gif
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 01:47 PM
one....is....the...driver?? :omgno:
what kind of chilling revelation is this?
http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Fire-engine1.thumb.gif
Be quiet you :nono:
that is untrue , in America. if youd actually bothered reading the report at the top of this page youd know that. lives will be lost as they had to lower the standards to let this women.; this has happened across america
I'm simply stating facts, if you don't like what you hear ... tough. The fixation you have with women has left me speechless to be honest.
arista
13-05-2015, 01:50 PM
Ireland isn't part of the Uk :fist: Uk and Irish :tongue:
Yes your in Pot a toe land
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 01:51 PM
Yes your in Pot a toe land
Typical :idc:
they had to lower the standards to let this woman in...this puts everyones life at more risk and destroys the teamwork you talk about.
..I don't see though where lives have been put at risk by this female firefighter, is there a story about her endangering people, her colleagues or any other life...it says in training that were four women among the 44 recruits who started last December, but they all dropped out so didn't meet the standard which was set or found it wasn't for them but not saying that the standard had been lowered ...
Livia
13-05-2015, 01:53 PM
If thetruth made the kind of statements he makes about women, about black people (for instance) he would have been thrown off this forum long ago, and quite rightly. Yet, he's still here. Maybe we should have a thread on 'why'.
the truth
13-05-2015, 03:08 PM
If thetruth made the kind of statements he makes about women, about black people (for instance) he would have been thrown off this forum long ago, and quite rightly. Yet, he's still here. Maybe we should have a thread on 'why'.
i could say the same with you about men..ignoring your cheap shot back to the issue....do you think its right to lower the standards in new York fire department to allow more women to become firefighters? thus risking lives ?
http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/fdnys-unfit-the-perils-of-pushing-women-into-firefighting/
the truth
13-05-2015, 03:09 PM
..I don't see though where lives have been put at risk by this female firefighter, is there a story about her endangering people, her colleagues or any other life...it says in training that were four women among the 44 recruits who started last December, but they all dropped out so didn't meet the standard which was set or found it wasn't for them but not saying that the standard had been lowered ...
the standards were lowered to let this woman, re read this report
in http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/fdnys-unfit-the-perils-of-pushing-women-into-firefighting/
this has happened right across america
http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/fdnys-unfit-the-perils-of-pushing-women-into-firefighting/
AnnieK
13-05-2015, 03:13 PM
the standards were lowered to let this woman, re read this report
in http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/fdnys-unfit-the-perils-of-pushing-women-into-firefighting/
this has happened right across america
http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/fdnys-unfit-the-perils-of-pushing-women-into-firefighting/
But surely that is something for America to address. Others have stated in this thread that they have very personal knowledge of the Fire Service and it doesn't happen in this country so isn't an issue here. With America being the litigious country that it is they must be happy that lives are not being overly put at risk otherwise the number of law suits would escalate and quickly
Crimson Dynamo
13-05-2015, 03:13 PM
If thetruth made the kind of statements he makes about women, about black people (for instance) he would have been thrown off this forum long ago, and quite rightly. Yet, he's still here. Maybe we should have a thread on 'why'.
:fist:
I rely ion the Truth to keep me updated on the creeping womanisation of our society
today i found out that in ireland they let women drive fire engines :umm2:
Next we will have woman airline pilots and the like. The madness must stop. :nono:
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 03:15 PM
But surely that is something for America to address. Others have stated in this thread that they have very personal knowledge of the Fire Service and it doesn't happen in this country so isn't an issue here. With America being the litigious country that it is they must be happy that lives are not being overly put at risk otherwise the number of law suits would escalate and quickly
Exactly.
Truth, it's like you're constantly, actively seeking out these type of stories to try and beat women with sticks over. It's getting pretty tedious tbqh
Shaun
13-05-2015, 03:15 PM
sod smoke alarms, can someone buy this chap an oestrogen alarm? seems to be a worrying concern
user104658
13-05-2015, 03:17 PM
today i found out that in ireland they let women drive fire engines :umm2:
WHAT!? They might as well be driving around in massive red penises!! I can see them now, hooting and hollering, waving the hoses between their legs and spraying them everywhere, brandishing their castration knives in the air...
the truth
13-05-2015, 07:37 PM
WHAT!? They might as well be driving around in massive red penises!! I can see them now, hooting and hollering, waving the hoses between their legs and spraying them everywhere, brandishing their castration knives in the air...
the usual nonsense.....if you had a firewoman who had not passed the tests to the same standard failing to carry your relative from a burning building your sick jokes would soon be silenced by tragedy
Niamh.
13-05-2015, 07:43 PM
the usual nonsense.....if you had a firewoman who had not passed the tests to the same standard failing to carry your relative from a burning building your sick jokes would soon be silenced by tragedy
You're actually talking about stuff that you no nothing about, a woman fire fighter who wasn't as physically strong as others in the team would not be given the job of carrying people out of a fire, don't be ridiculous and I can tell you most people including the male fire fighters would struggle to carry an unconscious person out of a fire
Kizzy
13-05-2015, 08:50 PM
I've seen lot's of discrimination on this forum, this is tame compared to the abuse the average welfare claimant gets :idc:
You're actually talking about stuff that you no nothing about, a woman fire fighter who wasn't as physically strong as others in the team would not be given the job of carrying people out of a fire, don't be ridiculous and I can tell you most people including the male fire fighters would struggle to carry an unconscious person out of a fire
Its impossible, I tried it in an exercise with 2 of us doing it, and in a smoke filled, dark room which is most fires - absolutely no chance
the truth
15-05-2015, 12:06 AM
I've seen lot's of discrimination on this forum, this is tame compared to the abuse the average welfare claimant gets :idc:
the ONLY people who will be discriminated against are the people who die in buring buildings because this woman was allowed to get into the fire service despite failing the tests.....i thought socialists were the more caring compassionate people? at least thats the self prising spin they tell us? yet if they are more caring why arent they more concerned with the people who die in burning buildings because of this politically correct positive discrimination nonsense that allows a person to fail the tests and get in just to keep feminists quiet?
Kizzy
15-05-2015, 12:29 AM
Has anyone died due to this lady becoming a firefighter?
the ONLY people who will be discriminated against are the people who die in buring buildings because this woman was allowed to get into the fire service despite failing the tests.....i thought socialists were the more caring compassionate people? at least thats the self prising spin they tell us? yet if they are more caring why arent they more concerned with the people who die in burning buildings because of this politically correct positive discrimination nonsense that allows a person to fail the tests and get in just to keep feminists quiet?
This refers to the USA, not to the UK, even if we wanted to, we are not in a position to change anything. I'm still not getting the relevance and see this thread only as an opportunity to put down women
Niamh.
15-05-2015, 08:57 AM
Its impossible, I tried it in an exercise with 2 of us doing it, and in a smoke filled, dark room which is most fires - absolutely no chance
You would have to actually drag the person out rather than carry them, tbh though the chances of actually pulling someone alive from a fire is slim anyway. It only takes a few inhalations of smoke to kill a person
Northern Monkey
16-05-2015, 12:57 AM
Well they could make special training programs for women for the less physical jobs then they would'nt have to lower the standards of the guys that go in and do the tough stuff.Maybe womens driving,Tea making(:laugh:)and pump operating training along side the main training.I mean i can't see a 5ft 4" 8 stone woman carrying a 6ft plus bloke on her shoulder down a ladder.Imagine the disappointment when you're burning to death with a broken leg and a tiny woman who can't even pick you up comes to rescue you?
Well they could make special training programs for women for the less physical jobs then they would'nt have to lower the standards of the guys that go in and do the tough stuff.Maybe womens driving,Tea making(:laugh:)and pump operating training along side the main training.I mean i can't see a 5ft 4" 8 stone woman carrying a 6ft plus bloke on her shoulder down a ladder.Imagine the disappointment when you're burning to death with a broken leg and a tiny woman who can't even pick you up comes to rescue you?
Seriously, you need to see the lady fire officers in the UK at least, they are amazing, and they do carry the same weight as the men
letmein
16-05-2015, 09:50 AM
that's great. but in this case and across America they have had to lower the standards to let women like this into the fire service , which is an absolute disgrace
That's conjecture.
letmein
16-05-2015, 09:51 AM
This refers to the USA, not to the UK, even if we wanted to, we are not in a position to change anything. I'm still not getting the relevance and see this thread only as an opportunity to put down women
All you need to do is look at the author of this thread and you know the agenda.
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