"Bring back National Service" says Prince Harry

[arista]

Now the 2 Josh's on here
would do great in National Service
not sure about Scott, though


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/5/17/393023/default/v1/pa-22989090-1-762x428.jpg
Feel The Force

http://news.sky.com/story/1485474/harry-i-dread-to-think-of-life-without-army

[Bring back National Service - I've said
that before," he said.
"But I put my hand up, as I said to
the kids today, you can make bad choices,
some severe, some not so severe.]

[joeysteele]

From what I heard many people who it was thought would do badly being 'called up' actually did very well in the end.

It would need to be from 16 to 18 to be right, to do it now,however with the cuts this govt; has made to the armed forces,I cannot see how it could be affordable now.

Is it a good idea, maybe, however the people who should be consulted as to it are the people it would affect, the young.

[MTVN]

It's a very oppressive thing for a government to impose on its citizens imo. I can see the benefits of it creating a sense of identity and being a coming-of-age thing but I don't agree with it being a compulsory commitment

[Tom4784]

Terrible idea, not everyone's suited to the Military and they shouldn't be forced into doing it.

[arista]

Terrible idea, not everyone's suited to the Military and they shouldn't be forced into doing it.


It would Improve your Body
Dezzy

[Kizzy]

Shut up Harry you berk, just because it kept you from running round china whites dressed as a nazi.
I don't think the experience for the rest of the nation would be quite so positive.

[Jay.]

Horrid idea, basically slavery to some extent. Not everyone is suited to it and I'd hate to be around war/fighting or even holding guns, the thought angers me. The government has enough control over peoples lives.

He hasn't exactly had the normal experience of being in the army either, considering he's a royal.

[Samuel.]

Absolutely not.

Nobody should be forced to support the army.

[Jack_]

Abolish the monarchy, says Jack_.

I would sooner kill myself than do national service. No thank you.

[Jarrod]

No thanks.

[jennyjuniper]

This is the one thing that I believe would immensely benefit Britain.
If any of you have ever watched 'Bad Lad's Army', you will know what I mean. They took 20 odd tearaways and put them through 3 months of basic training. Very few actually quit. Quite a few went on to join the regular army, but the vast majority benifitted in lots of ways and almost all were better men after than they were before.
Young men, who for whatever reason have lost their way, or just taken the wrong path, can benefit from discipline and pushing themselves further than they ever thought possible. It's doable and I would much rather see our young doing national service than just being on the scrap heap.

[Mitchell]

Abolish the monarchy, says Jack_.

I would sooner kill myself than do national service. No thank you.

Sadly I agree with your last part.

[Kazanne]

Now the 2 Josh's on here
would do great in National Service
not sure about Scott, though


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/5/17/393023/default/v1/pa-22989090-1-762x428.jpg
Feel The Force

http://news.sky.com/story/1485474/harry-i-dread-to-think-of-life-without-army

[Bring back National Service - I've said
that before," he said.
"But I put my hand up, as I said to
the kids today, you can make bad choices,
some severe, some not so severe.]

Great idea,should have been done years ago.

[Tom4784]

This is the one thing that I believe would immensely benefit Britain.
If any of you have ever watched 'Bad Lad's Army', you will know what I mean. They took 20 odd tearaways and put them through 3 months of basic training. Very few actually quit. Quite a few went on to join the regular army, but the vast majority benifitted in lots of ways and almost all were better men after than they were before.
Young men, who for whatever reason have lost their way, or just taken the wrong path, can benefit from discipline and pushing themselves further than they ever thought possible. It's doable and I would much rather see our young doing national service than just being on the scrap heap.

What would works for certain people wouldn't work for others. A silly TV show isn't representative of real life. National Service would not make things better, it's just another outdated concept that has no place in today's Britain. It's like when people say they should bring back caning in schools, that wouldn't solve anything it would just end in teachers getting the **** kicked out of them because not many students would stand there and take it nor should they.

[Firewire]

Abolish the monarchy, says Jack_.

I would sooner kill myself than do national service. No thank you.

I would do the same... Or paralyse myself.

[joeysteele]

What would works for certain people wouldn't work for others. A silly TV show isn't representative of real life. National Service would not make things, it's just another outdated concept that has no place in today's Britain. It's like when people say they should bring back caning in schools, that wouldn't solve anything it would just end in teachers getting the **** kicked out of them because not many students would stand there and take it nor should they.

I now agree, if it was wanted by the young then fair enough but I agree no way should it, nor do I believe could it now be enforced on people.

I wouldn't support it being brought back in any way myself.

The overwhelming opinions against it on this thread make the strongest arguments for sure.

[user104658]

If it was made an option at 16 for anyone who wanted to take it up then fine. Not the same as joining the army, they would have to take anyone who wanted to do it, and it would be for 2 years flat with then the best being offered an actual place in the military and the rest simply "graduating" hopefully having learned a skill or two. That might be an OK alternative to continuing in education, for some.

However... compulsory? No no no. Nooo. Never. Some people are not cut out for the military. Some people are not destined to blindly bow down to authority. Some people also are - quite rightfully - ideologically opposed to the military and everything they stand for. Those things should never be taken away from anyone.

[jennyjuniper]

What would works for certain people wouldn't work for others. A silly TV show isn't representative of real life. National Service would not make things, it's just another outdated concept that has no place in today's Britain. It's like when people say they should bring back caning in schools, that wouldn't solve anything it would just end in teachers getting the **** kicked out of them because not many students would stand there and take it nor should they.

Well I for one remember the days when we did have discipline in schools and national service and society seemed the better for it.
Nowadays people are allowed to get away with almost anything, because they don't know the first thing about respect or self discipline.

[joeysteele]

It is also a little rich for someone like Prince Harry to advocate this and say he doesn't know where he would be today without the army.

Well, that is easy, no matter what he did, he would be still be 5th in line to the throne, he would have endless opportunities presented to him on a plate.

Whether he took them or not would be down to him.
He is a really pleasant guy but his world is still a whole other world away from the vast majority of those he would be advocating likely army life for.

[Ammi]

..do you not think though, Jenny...that 'back in the day' in schools etc ..it wasn't about respect, it was more about fear and fear stifles people ..and I just think that there are many things now/historical crimes and abuses etc that show that there were many problems and issues back in the day as well, and not really that much self discipline but more fear ..but now in schools, children from a very early age can be encouraged to express themselves in who they are...and doing that isn't just letting them do whatever with no discipline because that is also there but I think in a much more effective way which doesn't involve hitting/caning them which was done back in the day..and yeah that may have made them seem 'better behaved' but fear will do that for you, not respect...if they respect at school then they don't want to disappoint by breaking rules which then creates self discipline...

[arista]

Well I for one remember the days when we did have discipline in schools and national service and society seemed the better for it.
Nowadays people are allowed to get away with almost anything, because they don't know the first thing about respect or self discipline.


Yes JJ
if only Dezzy could see the bigger picture

[joeysteele]

..do you not think though, Jenny...that 'back in the day' in schools etc ..it wasn't about respect, it was more about fear and fear stifles people ..and I just think that there are many things now/historical crimes and abuses etc that show that there were many problems and issues back in the day as well, and not really that much self discipline but more fear ..but now in schools, children from a very early age can be encouraged to express themselves in who they are...and doing that isn't just letting them do whatever with no discipline because that is also there but I think in a much more effective way which doesn't involve hitting/caning them which was done back in the day..and yeah that may have made them seem 'better behaved' but fear will do that for you, not respect...if they respect at school then they don't want to disappoint by breaking rules which then creates self discipline...

Excellent points.

[arista]

"doesn't involve hitting/caning them which was done back in the day.."

Sure Ammi

But the Army is pushing the Young to get better
and Teaching them Security Skills
Engine Skills and good solid management skills,


You need a Ex Army man
at your school teaching the young
his wisdom


Feel The Force.

[Ammi]

"doesn't involve hitting/caning them which was done back in the day.."

Sure Ammi

But the Army is pushing the Young to get better
and Teaching them Security Skills
Engine Skills and good solid management skills,


You need a Ex Army man
at your school teaching the young
his wisdom


Feel The Force.


..teaching them his wisdom for them to choose if they want to..not taking choices away through National Service...

[arista]

..teaching them his wisdom for them to choose if they want to..not taking choices away through National Service...


Things can change fast.


I am sure you would get on well with Ex Army man

[Kazanne]

But Kaz if we had a WW3
on us , all these shy students would
get a Fast Track teaching
and you would be amazed how they
change in just 8 weeks
then I send to the Frontline.

Any that refuse
will be in the kitchen and farm duties

As long as we have some brave men and women to fight for what we believe in,fair play to them,I would actually love to go on those assault courses and get stuck in,lol,

[arista]

As long as we have some brave men and women to fight for what we believe in,fair play to them,I would actually love to go on those assault courses and get stuck in,lol,


Thats The Spirit

[Ammi]

Things can change fast.


I am sure you would get on well with Ex Army man

...I reckon that the changes would be to increase suicide/mental health issues/depression in young people so unemployment figures/benefit expenditure would go down, so a good change, eh...


...my guy is kind of an army all on his own Arista...:wink:..

[Shaun]

Because nothing proves discipline and self-worth like being trained to kill and act out centuries-old-imperialist beliefs.

I wonder if Prince George would be called up...

[Cherie]

As an option this would be okay I guess, when would they do it though as kids have to stay in education now until 18 :conf2:

[chuff me dizzy]

100% agree with Harry, sort the men from the boys and cowards !!

[arista]

Because nothing proves discipline and self-worth like being trained to kill and act out centuries-old-imperialist beliefs.

I wonder if Prince George would be called up...


Yes he would as he gets older


Shaun
in WW3 we must stop nukes hitting our nation.
I want to Protect your House
Things change so fast
if we do not know who set off the
first Nuke in a White Van
in USA.
Then we must track via Space data
and in that meantime troops
made up of fast trained students
will become Law


Are You With Us
or the Evil Enemy?

[Kazanne]

100% agree with Harry, sort the men from the boys and cowards !!

:thumbs:I don't see it as a bad thing for some young people,they get bored,and they could be doing something useful.

[arista]

100% agree with Harry, sort the men from the boys and cowards !!


Chuff You Are Most Wise

[Liam-]

:thumbs:I don't see it as a bad thing for some young people,they get bored,and they could be doing something useful.

'Mummy I'm bored'
'oh little Jimmy, let's send you off to be trained to kill people with big heavy guns'

I'm not a fan of the idea at all.

[joeysteele]

..teaching them his wisdom for them to choose if they want to..not taking choices away through National Service...

That really is the main point, no one should ever be forced into this.

It is never going to happen anyway and I am now persuaded by thinking further and the comments on this thread by most,that it never should.

[Kazanne]

'Mummy I'm bored'
'oh little Jimmy, let's send you off to be trained to kill people with big heavy guns'

I'm not a fan of the idea at all.

It's not always to teach you to kill,LOL,they learn you various skills,plus if soldiers weren't trained to kill,you may never have been here.

[arista]

That really is the main point, no one should ever be forced into this.

It is never going to happen anyway and I am now persuaded by thinking further and the comments on this thread by most,that it never should.


Never say Never
we do not have full data on WW3
until it starts

[joeysteele]

Never say Never
we do not have full data on WW3
until it starts

This thread is talking about 2 or 3 years national service, not being drafted to go to an actual war already taking place.

If there was a world war 3, then there would be no choice as to be being called up under some national emergency ruling.

[arista]

It's not always to teach you to kill,LOL,they learn you various skills,plus if soldiers weren't trained to kill,you may never have been here.



Bang On Right Kaz

[arista]

This thread is talking about 2 or 3 years national service, not being drafted to go to an actual war already taking place.

If there was a world war 3, then there would be no choice as to be being called up under some national emergency ruling.



Thats Good
of course "If"


And today many have been on
SkyNewsHD and BBC NewsHD
debating Prince Harrys advise

[chuff me dizzy]

:thumbs:I don't see it as a bad thing for some young people,they get bored,and they could be doing something useful.

Makes a man out of the scrauniest thug

[chuff me dizzy]

Chuff You Are Most Wise

As always Arista !!! :joker:

[Cherie]

Chuff You Are Most Wise

:clap1:

[Kizzy]

compulsory cannon fodder?

[arista]

compulsory cannon fodder?




Do not make it so grim
We need the young to get on track


for any young reading this
thats what Kizzy is talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_fodder

[arista]

I would do the same... Or paralyse myself.


Thats OK
we have Jobs for Chair Work in the Kitchens

[Livia]

The idea that the army is there just to kill people is a very old fashioned view. They do much more than go to war. The British Army were one of the first organisations to react to the ebola crisis, for instance. Also, you have to be quite bright to get into the army, the days when they'd take anyone are long gone.

The British Army is a highly professional organisation and I'm sure the last thing they want is a load of people who don't want to be there. I do agree with some kind of national service but those conscripted should be able to choose - as the system used to work in Germany (suspended in 2011 I believe). They could choose to work with the elderly, for instance.

[arista]

The idea that the army is there just to kill people is a very old fashioned view. They do much more than go to war. The British Army were one of the first organisations to react to the ebola crisis, for instance. Also, you have to be quite bright to get into the army, the days when they'd take anyone are long gone.

The British Army is a highly professional organisation and I'm sure the last thing they want is a load of people who don't want to be there. I do agree with some kind of national service but those conscripted should be able to choose - as the system used to work in Germany (suspended in 2011 I believe). They could choose to work with the elderly, for instance.


Yes Wise Words

[Kizzy]

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-102978-thumbflex-uttq.jpg

I think the army would have the same issues to face that our youth just isn't healthy enough to join anyway voluntary or otherwise. It wouldn't have been spotty recruits that went to aid with the ebola crisis, they have specifically trained medics for that.
I can't imagine why army volunteers would want to work with the elderly... the sally army maybe.

[Jay.]

100% agree with Harry, sort the men from the boys and cowards !!

what about the girls?

[JoshBB]

Disgusting and should absolutely never be a thing. I would refuse.

[Denver]

Disgusting and should absolutely never be a thing. I would refuse.

You would most likely be sentenced to prison

[Tom4784]

You would most likely be sentenced to prison

Democracy! :cheer2:

[Kazanne]

Jeeze? I don't think you have any idea. Would you have done it? Would you like to be forced into something like that?

It's not that youth's couldn't hack it, it's that they wouldn't want to be basically imprisoned by their own government. Do you not think they have enough control over our education, our health, our money? But I guess it's okay to force innocent young people to learn how to fight/kill follow some kind of horrid ideology.

Ok,dont get you knicks in a twist,I never said anything about forcing anyone to do anything,plus, I didn't say ALL the youth couldn't hack it ,I said some,and as stated in other posts,the army is not just about killing,you can learn skills that set you up for life and don't forget a lot of innocent ,young people died for our freedom.I think it would be a good thing for kids who WANTED to do it,to be allowed to,girls and guys,that is all,nothing to get ancy over.

[JoshBB]

You would most likely be sentenced to prison

Because I won't do something that goes strongly against my morals? Okay. Arrest me.

Honestly they wouldn't fill people like that up in prisons that are already overcrowded.

[Denver]

Because I won't do something that goes strongly against my morals? Okay. Arrest me.

Honestly they wouldn't fill people like that up in prisons that are already overcrowded.

If its a legal requirement you have no choice

[Jay.]

Ok,dont get you knicks in a twist,I never said anything about forcing anyone to do anything,plus, I didn't say ALL the youth couldn't hack it ,I said some,and as stated in other posts,the army is not just about killing,you can learn skills that set you up for life and don't forget a lot of innocent ,young people died for our freedom.I think it would be a good thing for kids who WANTED to do it,to be allowed to,girls and guys,that is all,nothing to get ancy over.

Yes, it's fine for them who want to do it, but not for them to be forced to do it via national service.

[arista]

Disgusting and should absolutely never be a thing. I would refuse.


If we were at war
you would be on Kitchen duty

[joeysteele]

Yes, it's fine for them who want to do it, but not for them to be forced to do it via national service.

Exactly, those that really want to can go for it now voluntarily themselves.
As you say Prince Harry is on about bringing back National service, which means people are forced to go.

That would be totally wrong.

[empire]

I say young offenders need to do army boot camp, if we can't bring back borstal, then this would make them think twice about offending again,

[Ross.]

Exactly, those that really want to can go for it now voluntarily themselves.
As you say Prince Harry is on about bringing back National service, which means people are forced to go.

That would be totally wrong.

I agree with you as well Joey, no one in this day and age should be forced to go.

[Denver]

I hope they bring it back the youth of today need to learn respect

[lily.]

I don't agree with National Service at all. If someone wants to join the forces, that is their decision. It can't be forced upon people.

[Liam-]

I hope they bring it back the youth of today need to learn respect

So you teach people respect my forcing them to do something that could be against everything they believe in or stand for? That would only breed resentment and hatred towards the country forcing them to take part.

[Denver]

So you teach people respect my forcing them to do something that could be against everything they believe in or stand for? That would only breed resentment and hatred towards the country forcing them to take part.

Nothing wrong with it tbh it would also help keep people fit with the training

[LukeB]

No thank you.

Not everyone will be suited for it especially where they can be people who will be useless and probs find it hard to cope. Not everyone will find shooting a Gun easy. Some are not strong enough for that.

[the truth]

I say young offenders need to do army boot camp, if we can't bring back borstal, then this would make them think twice about offending again,

agreed

[arista]

I don't agree with National Service at all. If someone wants to join the forces, that is their decision. It can't be forced upon people.


But it helps them
all there future life.

[arista]

No thank you.

Not everyone will be suited for it especially where they can be people who will be useless and probs find it hard to cope. Not everyone will find shooting a Gun easy. Some are not strong enough for that.

But they can work in other areas
if arms are to much

[Ammi]

But it helps them
all there future life.

..no Arista it wouldn't help 'them' because young people, like older people, like any people are not 'them', they're not a collective.. so it's not something that 'they' need or that 'they' would benefit from...would any young person benefit and gain from something like national Service..?...yeah probably but that's the same with anything and because of their personality/character and so it has to be choice...so as a nation we spend time talking about free choice/democracy etc and how we have 'fought' for it over years only to take it away from young people through forcing them into National Service...the Royals are more or less born into the military, into that being part of their lives and that's because of who they are and what their lives are/as individuals so for them it's something that they feel they benefit from...and it gives them more of a balance/'reality' in their lives..but 'realities and the real world' is something that many young people are very aware of already without national Service...it's not something 'they' need at all ....

[arista]

..no Arista it wouldn't help 'them' because young people, like older people, like any people are not 'them', they're not a collective.. so it's not something that 'they' need or that 'they' would benefit from...would any young person benefit and gain from something like national Service..?...yeah probably but that's the same with anything and because of their personality/character and so it has to be choice...so as a nation we spend time talking about free choice/democracy etc and how we have 'fought' for it over years only to take it away from young people through forcing them into National Service...the Royals are more or less born into the military, into that being part of their lives and that's because of who they are and what their lives are/as individuals so for them it's something that they feel they benefit from...and it gives them more of a balance/'reality' in their lives..but 'realities and the real world' is something that many young people are very aware of already without national Service...it's not something 'they' need at all ....


Yes I agree Prince Harry is not a ideal example


Getting every young person fit
is a set up,
for their whole life

Thats such a Positive

[Ammi]

Yes I agree Prince Harry is not a ideal example


Getting every young person fit
is a set up,
for their whole life

Thats such a Positive

...you don't have to do assault courses and military type training to be 'fit' Arista and there are physically 'fit' people/young people who take their own lives because emotional/mental fitness rules more than anything and they're unhappy within themselves no matter how physically 'fit' they are and forcing people into doing something that would make them extremely unhappy is not going to be anything other than negative with no positives at all..I mean you have your own business, don't you..?...so if you were forced into employing someone, a particular person who the government said that you had to employ...and it was obvious that they had no enthusiasm to be there which would make them really not very effective to you/your business..they also wouldn't benefit from their experience either/'learn' anything from you because they were so unhappy...so really no positive to anyone at all...

[arista]

We would Modify the Military Type Training
people like you could check it first

[Ammi]

We would Modify the Military Type Training
people like you could check it first

...people like me..:laugh:..you're far too wise to generalise people in these ways, Arista...

[Benjamin]

I suppose it would be for both men and women if it were to happen?

[arista]

I suppose it would be for both men and women if it were to happen?


Yes


And Gays
so all can get on in there


Note : There is nothing wrong with being Gay

[Ammi]

..what about drag queens..?..would they be allowed Accessorise Day, camping it up in training camp...actually it's sounding like a fun idea...

[MTVN]

The idea that the army is there just to kill people is a very old fashioned view. They do much more than go to war. The British Army were one of the first organisations to react to the ebola crisis, for instance. Also, you have to be quite bright to get into the army, the days when they'd take anyone are long gone.

The British Army is a highly professional organisation and I'm sure the last thing they want is a load of people who don't want to be there. I do agree with some kind of national service but those conscripted should be able to choose - as the system used to work in Germany (suspended in 2011 I believe). They could choose to work with the elderly, for instance.

Fair point, it seems that in most the countries where they do still have it that there is quite a bit of leeway offered for those who don't want to engage in the more military side of things to do work in other areas.

I always find it interesting that Switzerland has national service despite hardly ever having involved themselves in war

[kirklancaster]

..what about drag queens..?..would they be allowed Accessorise Day, camping it up in training camp...actually it's sounding like a fun idea...

:laugh: You're mischievous side is showing little minx.

[kirklancaster]

Fair point, it seems that in most the countries where they do still have it that there is quite a bit of leeway offered for those who don't want to engage in the more military side of things to do work in other areas.

I always find it interesting that Switzerland has national service despite hardly ever having involved themselves in war



I never thought about that - mmm.

[arista]

..what about drag queens..?..would they be allowed Accessorise Day, camping it up in training camp...actually it's sounding like a fun idea...


No Potato Peeling - Kitchen

[Niamh.]

It's a very oppressive thing for a government to impose on its citizens imo. I can see the benefits of it creating a sense of identity and being a coming-of-age thing but I don't agree with it being a compulsory commitment

Terrible idea, not everyone's suited to the Military and they shouldn't be forced into doing it.

Indeed.

[bots]

In days gone by, national service was just a method of the upper classes enforcing their superiority/control over the common people. No thanks, those days are long gone, and Harry can stick it where the sun don't shine

[joeysteele]

In days gone by, national service was just a method of the upper classes enforcing their superiority/control over the common people. No thanks, those days are long gone, and Harry can stick it where the sun don't shine

Another good point.

[Kizzy]

Fair point, it seems that in most the countries where they do still have it that there is quite a bit of leeway offered for those who don't want to engage in the more military side of things to do work in other areas.

I always find it interesting that Switzerland has national service despite hardly ever having involved themselves in war

There are 101 things that could be implemented for NEETs besides the army, bring back the YTS schemes, the army don't have the funds for kids to play soldier for 2yrs do they? Last I heard they were struggling for equipment for the lads they have in Afghanistan.

[lily.]

Yes he would as he gets older


Shaun
in WW3 we must stop nukes hitting our nation.
I want to Protect your House
Things change so fast
if we do not know who set off the
first Nuke in a White Van
in USA.
Then we must track via Space data
and in that meantime troops
made up of fast trained students
will become Law


Are You With Us
or the Evil Enemy?

Sometimes I wonder what it's like to be inside your head.

[arista]

Sometimes I wonder what it's like to be inside your head.


Yes we must meet some day

[lily.]

Yes we must meet some day


That would be something.

[letmein]

This is the one thing that I believe would immensely benefit Britain.
If any of you have ever watched 'Bad Lad's Army',

You're making your case based on a television show?:joker:

[Kizzy]

I've seen bad lads army and it does seem to appeal to some lads, but I think it's more the structure, discipline and routine, inflicting that on every teen.... ridiculous.

[kirklancaster]

I've seen bad lads army and it does seem to appeal to some lads, but I think it's more the structure, discipline and routine, inflicting that on every teen.... ridiculous.

Perhaps if more 'parents' 'inflicted' structure, discipline and routine upon their kids the question of restoring 'National Service' would not have cropped up and society would not be as fecked as it increasingly is.

[Kizzy]

So society is screwed because of teenagers now? not joblessness or immigrants .. Kids and parents are the scapegoat de jour.

[kirklancaster]

So society is screwed because of teenagers now? not joblessness or immigrants .. Kids and parents are the scapegoat de jour.

I NEVER said that "society is screwed because of teenagers now", and as impressively sounding as the phrase 'Scapegoat de jour' is, it is wasted in a response which misrepresents my post and ignores the very salient point in it. Of course I now expect no less from a master of self-delusion.

Here's what I ACTUALLY wrote:

"Perhaps if more 'parents' 'inflicted' structure, discipline and routine upon their kids the question of restoring 'National Service' would not have cropped up and society would not be as fecked as it increasingly is."

Note the word; 'as' because unlike your use of the grand-sounding; 'scapegoat de jour', my usage of this simpler word has a purpose:

'as' - adverb 1. used in comparisons to refer to the extent or degree of something.

My use of the simple word 'as' in my statement as a comparator then, tacitly assumes that the case is that society is increasingly fecked up even WITHOUT feral kids who have been 'dragged up' by bad 'non-parents', but that the very real existence of such kids, does indeed add to the gravity of society's degeneration as well as the rate at which such degeneration increases

In other words; 'bad parents' and 'feral dragged up kids' are one of the contributory causes of our fecked up society, but NOT a 'necessary' cause or a 'sufficient' cause.

Of course, none of the above matters - neither the validity of my original post or the above elaboration - if one chooses through blind bigotry to deny the truth.

You continue with your self-blindness to truth, and continue to deny that poor parents and their feral offspring exist, and that they are a real contributory factor in our social decline, just as you deny the existence of Benefit Fraudsters and the fact that this tiny island cannot endure unfettered immigration, and just as you deny a plethora of other incontrovertible truths.

Misrepresenting MY posts will not aid you in your denials or in replacing the truth with your extreme Left Wing propaganda - I will ensure that much.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/18/article-1214549-067E5732000005DC-607_468x209.jpg

[Kizzy]

I NEVER said that "society is screwed because of teenagers now", and as impressively sounding as the phrase 'Scapegoat de jour' is, it is wasted in a response which misrepresents my post and ignores the very salient point in it. Of course I now expect no less from a master of self-delusion.

Here's what I ACTUALLY wrote:

"Perhaps if more 'parents' 'inflicted' structure, discipline and routine upon their kids the question of restoring 'National Service' would not have cropped up and society would not be as fecked as it increasingly is."

Note the word; 'as' because unlike your use of the grand-sounding; 'scapegoat de jour', my usage of this simpler word has a purpose:

'as' - adverb 1. used in comparisons to refer to the extent or degree of something.

My use of the simple word 'as' in my statement as a comparator then, tacitly assumes that the case is that society is increasingly fecked up even WITHOUT feral kids who have been 'dragged up' by bad 'non-parents', but that the very real existence of such kids, does indeed add to the gravity of society's degeneration as well as the rate at which such degeneration increases

In other words; 'bad parents' and 'feral dragged up kids' are one of the contributory causes of our fecked up society, but NOT a 'necessary' cause or a 'sufficient' cause.

Of course, none of the above matters - neither the validity of my original post or the above elaboration - if one chooses through blind bigotry to deny the truth.

You continue with your self-blindness to truth, and continue to deny that poor parents and their feral offspring exist, and that they are a real contributory factor in our social decline, just as you deny the existence of Benefit Fraudsters and the fact that this tiny island cannot endure unfettered immigration, and just as you deny a plethora of other incontrovertible truths.

Misrepresenting MY posts will not aid you in your denials or in replacing the truth with your extreme Left Wing propaganda - I will ensure that much.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/18/article-1214549-067E5732000005DC-607_468x209.jpg

Self delusion...You misinterpret my post and then accuse me?

'I've seen bad lads army and it does seem to appeal to some lads, but I think it's more the structure, discipline and routine, inflicting that on every teen.... ridiculous.'

Look at my post again... I CLEARLY state that some lads may benefit... and I go on to say that inflicting that on every teen is ridiculous as it simple won't be necessary they are perfectly functioning members of society as are some adults but not every adult. You can't very well institutionalise the many for the perceived faults of the few that would be foolish.

Please don't attempt to berate me when you simply misunderstood the intonation of my comment.

[kirklancaster]

Self delusion...You misinterpret my post and then accuse me?

'I've seen bad lads army and it does seem to appeal to some lads, but I think it's more the structure, discipline and routine, inflicting that on every teen.... ridiculous.'

Look at my post again... I CLEARLY state that some lads may benefit... and I go on to say that inflicting that on every teen is ridiculous as it simple won't be necessary they are perfectly functioning members of society as are some adults but not every adult. You can't very well institutionalise the many for the perceived faults of the few that would be foolish.

Please don't attempt to berate me when you simply misunderstood the intonation of my comment.

Come off it Kizzy - you had moved on from 'Bad Lads Army' when you posted the response below SPECIFICALLY to my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
So society is screwed because of teenagers now? not joblessness or immigrants .. Kids and parents are the scapegoat de jour.

[Z]

Maybe they should make it compulsory if you plan to leave school at 16, if you're not going to educate yourself in a school then at least you'll get an education in the military.

[Kizzy]

Come off it Kizzy - you had moved on from 'Bad Lads Army' when you posted the response below SPECIFICALLY to my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
So society is screwed because of teenagers now? not joblessness or immigrants .. Kids and parents are the scapegoat de jour.

I had not moved on no it was a reply to you yet I can't see what part of my post prompted you start pointing fingers at young people as undisciplined and 'fecking' up society.
The question of national service had not cropped up it was one off the cuff comment by prince Harry.
There is not an option for NEETs now to do nothing as education and or training is mandatory until 18 and has been for at least 2yrs.

[Cherie]

Maybe they should make it compulsory if you plan to leave school at 16, if you're not going to educate yourself in a school then at least you'll get an education in the military.

You cant leave school at 16 anymore in England at any rate, I suppose Scotland is different...better together lol

[Tom4784]

It's very easy to be judgemental and blame everything on teenagers and think that packing them off to the military will fix the problem but National Service won't help every troubled teenager. The Military lifestyle doesn't suit everyone and for every teenager that flourishes in the military there will be more that flounder. It'll do more damage than good.

If National Service entailed work opportunities outside of the military then I'd be for it but I'm very much against a military based service. It would be a much better idea to turn it into an apprenticeship scheme of sorts.