Labour now backs the In and Out Referendum

[arista]

H. Harman MP
on Marr just confirmed
Labour now backs the 2017 In or Out Referendum Bill



If only you got your Ed to do that

[smudgie]

Yes, rather like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.
Labour has a lot of backtracking to do to win back favour I think.
It is a good thing for them to get back in touch with the electorate.

[arista]

Yes, rather like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.
Labour has a lot of backtracking to do to win back favour I think.
It is a good thing for them to get back in touch with the electorate.


But before the Election they
did not trust the UK Public
to vote.

To Sly

[smudgie]

But before the Election they
did not trust the UK Public
to vote.

To Sly

Indeed.
Or desperate.

[joeysteele]

Weeks too late, in fact months too late.

This is one thing I found while canvassing,that people couldn't understand why Labour weren't offering one too.
It is the one thing, as I have said on here loads, I wished Ed Miliband had changed his mind on.

So I am really glad, this change has come,I am even more pleased Labour will be supporting it in parliament too, this will remove any chance of David Cameron now saying he hasn't the parliamentary arithmetic to get a referendum bill through parliament as well,were his re-negotiation to go badly wrong.
Despite any possible rebellion by some very pro EU Conservative MPs.

Of course had the Conservatives fully backed their own man, James Wharton MP, who had the foresight to try to put in place the referendum time anyway, all would have been near up and ready to go even by the election on May 7th.

A good and wise move from Labour and I give full praise to Harriet Harman for bringing about this change.
This could have helped greatly in the election,on this issue.
Although I will vote to stay in the EU, come what may,on this I have to agree Ed Miliband was totally wrong.

[arista]

"I wished Ed Miliband had changed his mind on."

Yes he Bolted the Door
ignoring Labour voters wishes


Union Pick Losers

[waterhog]

Yes, rather like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.
Labour has a lot of backtracking to do to win back favour I think.
It is a good thing for them to get back in touch with the electorate.

thats why i will never vote them till this is done - and its going to take ages at this rate.

so this labour is going to be long and painful.:dance:

[bots]

Its all connected in with the view from some labour spokespeople that the public were deluded etc in voting the way they did. They wanted to remove people right to choose because they didn't feel they would make the choice that they wanted them to make.

Thankfully with Ed gone, that power block seems to have lost its influence too, but its something that needs to be watched carefully.

[joeysteele]

But before the Election they
did not trust the UK Public
to vote.

To Sly

To be fair, a lot of Labour MPs said publicly they thought there should be a referendum,(just as there are Conservative MPs,who even still don't want one), also a great many Labour party members and workers like myself,despite being pro EU did also say, it would have helped a great deal.

However, the leader,as in any party, rubber stamps the policies and that is what has to be gone with at the time.
Ed Miliband refused totally to even look at the referendum issue again, he had a fair policy as to one and the circumstances as to same,that was not however what the voters wanted.

It wasn't about not trusting the public, more than about not trusting the media to report fairly and in a balanced way the good and bad as to the EU.
That is still my fear, that the media will hijack this and present their own bias rather than the 'honest' facts the voters need to make a much better informed decision.

[kirklancaster]

It's really incredible how both parties who have contributed to the demonising and ridiculing of UKIP, are now shamelessly stealing their policies and regurgitating the truth UKIP have been stating for years.

[bots]

To be fair, a lot of Labour MPs said publicly they thought there should be a referendum,(just as there are Conservative MPs,who even still don't want one), also a great many Labour party members and workers like myself,despite being pro EU did also say, it would have helped a great deal.

However, the leader,as in any party, rubber stamps the policies and that is what has to be gone with at the time.
Ed Miliband refused totally to even look at the referendum issue again, he had a fair policy as to one and the circumstances as to same,that was not however what the voters wanted.

It wasn't about not trusting the public, more than about not trusting the media to report fairly and in a balanced way the good and bad as to the EU.
That is still my fear, that the media will hijack this and present their own bias rather than the 'honest' facts the voters need to make a much better informed decision.


With regard to the EU in/out ref, its never going to be an equal campaign or argument, and there are good reasons for that in itself. The status quo is that we are in, the onus should be on the out campaign to put enough doubt in peoples minds for them to think again. But rightly, because it is the status quo, it will have more voice and money behind it. UKIP's argument, that it should be an equally funded campaign is a joke, because it is putting a barrier in there that is just not possible. Meaning, unless the UK vote NO, they will always cry foul play.

[Toy Soldier]

It's really incredible how both parties who have contributed to the demonising and ridiculing of UKIP, are now shamelessly stealing their policies and regurgitating the truth UKIP have been stating for years.

I don't think so Kirk, I'm pretty sure the major parties are not supporting leaving Europe, they're getting the referrendum out of the way hoping for a massive "No" so that they can quickly dismiss the question for the next few decades.

The campaign-o'-fear has already started with the BofE "accidentally" ( :sleep: ) forwarding a sensitive email to the national press.

[arista]

It's really incredible how both parties who have contributed to the demonising and ridiculing of UKIP, are now shamelessly stealing their policies and regurgitating the truth UKIP have been stating for years.


Yes 4 Million Voted for your UKIP
many in the North were Labour voters jumping ship.

I am Conservative Pro
but unlike Labour
I never Diss UKIP
I give them full respect


4 Million voters is Massive
for a new party.

[kirklancaster]

To be fair, a lot of Labour MPs said publicly they thought there should be a referendum,(just as there are Conservative MPs,who even still don't want one), also a great many Labour party members and workers like myself,despite being pro EU did also say, it would have helped a great deal.

However, the leader,as in any party, rubber stamps the policies and that is what has to be gone with at the time.
Ed Miliband refused totally to even look at the referendum issue again, he had a fair policy as to one and the circumstances as to same,that was not however what the voters wanted.

It wasn't about not trusting the public, more than about not trusting the media to report fairly and in a balanced way the good and bad as to the EU.
That is still my fear, that the media will hijack this and present their own bias rather than the 'honest' facts the voters need to make a much better informed decision.

I agree Joey, but part of it was the FEAR of being deemed as Xenophobic and Racist by the majority of the public which would have adversely impacted upon their election chances. However, Farage walked through that storm alone and lo and behold it was revealed that a larger percentage of the GBP AGREED with him - then, and ONLY then did the other parties start making the appropriate EU referendum/Immigration curb noises.

I do totally agree with you though that trying to find TRUE IMPARTIAL HONEST FACTS about the EU is like trying to find gold dust in a chocolate eclair.

The TRUTH is out there, but it involves a hell of a lot of research and cross referencing to find it.

[joeysteele]

It's really incredible how both parties who have contributed to the demonising and ridiculing of UKIP, are now shamelessly stealing their policies and regurgitating the truth UKIP have been stating for years.

Not really stealing their policies, at least for the election Labour didn't do so.

The Conservatives have moved to a referendum stance ever since 2001 and William Hague's wrong warnings about the UK joining the Euro.

UKIP is still the only party,that with or without a referendum,(therefore that original policy of theirs intact and not taken up by any other party), also with or without any new reforms or deals with the EU,who would leave the EU.
That is their main EU policy.

No other party at this time, is in any way advocating support for leaving the EU despite the referendum.
Which is totally still at odds with UKIP's stance as to same.

[joeysteele]

With regard to the EU in/out ref, its never going to be an equal campaign or argument, and there are good reasons for that in itself. The status quo is that we are in, the onus should be on the out campaign to put enough doubt in peoples minds for them to think again. But rightly, because it is the status quo, it will have more voice and money behind it. UKIP's argument, that it should be an equally funded campaign is a joke, because it is putting a barrier in there that is just not possible. Meaning, unless the UK vote NO, they will always cry foul play.

All good points again too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh so ukip were right after all

funny that

[joeysteele]

As to a referendum,I would concede that UKIP have the mood and support of the voters in the main as to that.
I personally don't want one,when it comes, as it will now, with assured majority Conservative and Labour support in parliament,I will vote to stay in and hope the UK does too.

UKIP did however set the agenda for this and so the fact this referendum will now be held,no matter what the outcome appears to be,has to be down to their efforts.
They have achieved by that effort, even though I disagree with them,a referendum that has been impossible to get from any party in the UK,since 1975.

[bots]

As to a referendum,I would concede that UKIP have the mood and support of the voters in the main as to that.
I personally don't want one,when it comes, as it will now, with assured majority Conservative and Labour support in parliament,I will vote to stay in and hope the UK does too.

UKIP did however set the agenda for this and so the fact this referendum will now be held,no matter what the outcome appears to be,has to be down to their efforts.
They have achieved by that effort, even though I disagree with them,a referendum that has been impossible to get from any party in the UK,since 1975.

I agree. I would also say that for years the public have wanted this referendum, that doesn't mean they want to vote no, it means they want the right to choose, its a big difference. The number of No voters will in no way correspond to the numbers wanting a referendum.

[kirklancaster]

I don't think so Kirk, I'm pretty sure the major parties are not supporting leaving Europe, they're getting the referrendum out of the way hoping for a massive "No" so that they can quickly dismiss the question for the next few decades.

The campaign-o'-fear has already started with the BofE "accidentally" ( :sleep: ) forwarding a sensitive email to the national press.

If you are suggesting that the 'accidental' e-mail was a deliberate ploy and just an ingenious part of the pro-EU propaganda machine - then I totally agree with you T.S and we think alike.

'Accident' my arse.

The super rich, the multi-National Corporations and corrupt politicians with connections to those first two listed and who receive their kick-backs from them, are the ones who TOOK us into Europe and who are KEEPING us in Europe, and it is brilliant devised propaganda tactics like this bollox 'accident' in addition to their control of the all powerful media which virtually GUARANTEES that the public will swallow their tripe and vote to STAY in.

(**** -I'm beginning to sound like Russell Brand! :blush:)

[MTVN]

I still don't see why we need a referendum really. If 'the people need to have their say' on every major issue then why don't we have a referendum on our UN membership, or being a part of Nato? Why don't we have a referendum on the monarchy? That's not how it works, we elect our representatives every few years to entrust them with these decisions and so that they can enforce their policies, and the vast majority of us vote for parties which support EU membership. If people want us to leave the EU then they should vote for a party which upholds that stance - UKIP.

Having said that at least this will hopefully draw a line under it for the next few decades, but there's gonna be several months of annoying speculation and instability in the build up to it

[arista]

oh so ukip were right after all

funny that


No Logical

[joeysteele]

I still don't see why we need a referendum really. If 'the people need to have their say' on every major issue then why don't we have a referendum on our UN membership, or being a part of Nato? Why don't we have a referendum on the monarchy? That's not how it works, we elect our representatives every few years to entrust them with these decisions and so that they can enforce their policies, and the vast majority of us vote for parties which support EU membership. If people want us to leave the EU then they should vote for a party which upholds that stance - UKIP.

Having said that at least this will hopefully draw a line under it for the next few decades, but there's gonna be several months of annoying speculation and instability in the build up to it



There could be over a year at least as to that now.

I recall reading that Margaret Thatcher was massively opposed to referenda at all, she said govts. were elected to govern and then either held support or got thrown out later as to the decisions they took.

I think they hold uncertain outcomes that if they are held on an issue where balanced and true facts are likely to be clouded at best.

I sense,maybe, there is a feeling in Westminster to help David Cameron on this issue now,
He could yet be the Prime Minister,on his own efforts, that presides over the UK sleepwalking out of the EU,which would then likely lead to the Scots screaming for another independence referendum too in light of that event.

So I feel Labour now also realise the dangers of a major split on the EU being disastrous.
If they have any chance of all as to being a majority govt. in 2020,then they may have just realised the chaos there could be in the event of a no result.
So I just hope the UK votes to stay in and more to the point, conclusively too.

[bots]

I still don't see why we need a referendum really. If 'the people need to have their say' on every major issue then why don't we have a referendum on our UN membership, or being a part of Nato? Why don't we have a referendum on the monarchy? That's not how it works, we elect our representatives every few years to entrust them with these decisions and so that they can enforce their policies, and the vast majority of us vote for parties which support EU membership. If people want us to leave the EU then they should vote for a party which upholds that stance - UKIP.

Having said that at least this will hopefully draw a line under it for the next few decades, but there's gonna be several months of annoying speculation and instability in the build up to it


I think a referendum is required when enough momentum builds behind a cause that none of the potential governments are prepared to support. Being realistic, UKIP could never be an elected government because they do not have the strength and depth (as of now)

The system works fine without referendum when there are genuine choices available

[arista]

I still don't see why we need a referendum really. If 'the people need to have their say' on every major issue then why don't we have a referendum on our UN membership, or being a part of Nato? Why don't we have a referendum on the monarchy? That's not how it works, we elect our representatives every few years to entrust them with these decisions and so that they can enforce their policies, and the vast majority of us vote for parties which support EU membership. If people want us to leave the EU then they should vote for a party which upholds that stance - UKIP.

Having said that at least this will hopefully draw a line under it for the next few decades, but there's gonna be several months of annoying speculation and instability in the build up to it

No thats in your head

Business Debates
will be great


Embrace Our Rights MTVN

[Toy Soldier]

If you are suggesting that the 'accidental' e-mail was a deliberate ploy and just an ingenious part of the pro-EU propaganda machine - then I totally agree with you T.S and we think alike.

'Accident' my arse.

The super rich, the multi-National Corporations and corrupt politicians with connections to those first two listed and who receive their kick-backs from them, are the ones who TOOK us into Europe and who are KEEPING us in Europe, and it is brilliant devised propaganda tactics like this bollox 'accident' in addition to their control of the all powerful media which virtually GUARANTEES that the public will swallow their tripe and vote to STAY in.

(**** -I'm beginning to sound like Russell Brand! :blush:)
Well I don't want the UK to leave Europe, but yes, the idea that the email was leaked accidentally is so ridiculous that I think it qualifies as satire.

"Hey guys I've just written a sensitive email saying we shouldn't say anything to the press OOPS I pressed the wrong button and emailed it directly to them myself."

I've gotten used to this sort of "charade politics" recently but it's getting to the point where they aren't even trying to be clever any more, they're just coming up with flimsy excuses and expecting people to buy it... or actually, probably not caring if they buy it or not.

"Sir, may I ask how exactly the only copy of a sensitive incriminating document disappeared over night?"

"My dog ate it."

"You don't have a dog!"

"Hamster ate it. Or it was in my pocket and got put through the wash. Something. Go away."

[Kizzy]

I'm saddened to see Labour sliding further centre and backing this, the CBI, the BofE and other banks have railed against it, I have yet to hear where will trade from.... It's not like we can set up a barrow in the 'world market' it will be with the WTO. Would there be freedom of movement expected there too? If some are so frosty about Eastern Europeans coming here to live and work how will they cope with the rest of the world?

[Kizzy]

If you are suggesting that the 'accidental' e-mail was a deliberate ploy and just an ingenious part of the pro-EU propaganda machine - then I totally agree with you T.S and we think alike.

'Accident' my arse.

The super rich, the multi-National Corporations and corrupt politicians with connections to those first two listed and who receive their kick-backs from them, are the ones who TOOK us into Europe and who are KEEPING us in Europe, and it is brilliant devised propaganda tactics like this bollox 'accident' in addition to their control of the all powerful media which virtually GUARANTEES that the public will swallow their tripe and vote to STAY in.

(**** -I'm beginning to sound like Russell Brand! :blush:)

Good... you should try to sound more like him if you can :hehe:
He was right democracy is a sham, there is no democracy as decisions like this are made weeeeeell before we get a say, just like the election really. You can see the same propaganda, leaks and spin used in that too the vote is just an illusion that we have any influence.

[arista]

I'm saddened to see Labour sliding further centre and backing this, the CBI, the BofE and other banks have railed against it, I have yet to hear where will trade from.... It's not like we can set up a barrow in the 'world market' it will be with the WTO. Would there be freedom of movement expected there too? If some are so frosty about Eastern Europeans coming here to live and work how will they cope with the rest of the world?


Yes sad Kizzy
that Joey likes it
and You can not connect with the North England feeling


So many in Labour wanted this
you must have ear pluggs on.

[Kizzy]

I don't care what the north/south want/don't want that is MY position on this.

[smudgie]

I just want proper debates from those concerned, we need to know the facts on how it will affect us business wise, as well as on a personal level.
We do need reforms, this country can no longer carry in burying it's head in the sand any longer. But we must also avoid any knee jerk reactions to the propaganda that is heading in our direction.

[joeysteele]

Yes sad Kizzy
that Joey likes it
and You can not connect with the North England feeling


So many in Labour wanted this
you must have ear pluggs on.

I don't like the idea of a referendum and I hate the idea of the UK voting to leave the EU.
Which I think is a more than possible outcome too.
However with the votes for the Conservatives and for UKIP,considering the Greens were in favour of a referendum too.
Then over 50% of those who voted backed parties supporting a referendum,sincere as to holding one or not.

I did find on the doorsteps canvassing,people who wished Ed Miliband had also offered one.
I think he could have saved some seats and gained more votes had he done so.

So what I am glad about this now is, that Labour now appears to not want to play party politics with it.
That is a good thing.
That they also will support the bill being held, and then help campaign like crazy to help win the staying in cause.

I will be really glad, to have this issue settled before the next election now.
Whenever something happens as to an election result, you have to take stock of where it went wrong or good for you and learn from it.

I am a full democrat and accept more of the voters want their say as to the EU now,so am pleased both main parties can maybe reach some agreement as to the best way forward on this issue now.

To quote you arista, 'sign of the times'.

[arista]

I don't care what the north/south want/don't want that is MY position on this.


Your Position is No Rights for us
to vote in or out.


You are Out of Touch

[Kizzy]

Your Position is No Rights for us
to vote in or out.


You are Out of Touch

You're out of touch if you think for one second that the public get to decide this... Does anyone seriously think for one second the public gets to determine the economics of the UK?

[arista]

You're out of touch if you think for one second that the public get to decide this... Does anyone seriously think for one second the public gets to determine the economics of the UK?


2017
we will see


Even Your Labour backs it.
You are out of touch , because of that fact

[Kizzy]

2017
we will see


Even Your Labour backs it.
You are out of touch , because of that fact

I'm not out of touch because I want to stay in the EU regardless of the will of any party to the contrary.
They will no longer be 'my' party if they push for an exit.

[joeysteele]

I'm not out of touch because I want to stay in the EU regardless of the will of any party to the contrary.
They will no longer be 'my' party if they push for an exit.

Labour will never push for to exit the EU,I can guarantee you that.
They will be battling like crazy to get the vote to be yes to staying in.

This is good in my view, despite my reservations,as if the austerity cuts hit too hard again and this govt. becomes really unpopular by the time this referendum is held, then having the govt. and opposition agreeing to stay in, I can hope, will only help the staying in cause.

Equally you, I and others who want to stay in, need to do our bit by trying as best we can to persuade as many people as we can to vote to stay in too.

[arista]

I'm not out of touch because I want to stay in the EU regardless of the will of any party to the contrary.
They will no longer be 'my' party if they push for an exit.


No they are not wanting a Exit
if only you watched Marr BBC1HD
they want the public to debate and Vote
as its our wish.

Can you not Record things?

[arista]

"persuade as many people as we can to vote"

Yes joey you must

As millions want out

[Crimson Dynamo]

The BOE email is the start of project fear

just watch

[Kizzy]

No they are not wanting a Exit
if only you watched Marr BBC1HD
they want the public to debate and Vote
as its our wish.

Can you not Record things?

What's up with you promoting the bloated BBC?..

I'll watch what I want ta.
I'm confident like Joey they won't want an exit but even the referendum worries me. Things can be manipulated so easily.

[arista]

What's up with you promoting the bloated BBC?..

I'll watch what I want ta.
I'm confident like Joey they won't want an exit but even the referendum worries me. Things can be manipulated so easily.


Marr
is special as
it got the first Exclusive.


Why Not Record it
are you not able to - if you tell me
then I know in future


As for the Fecking Bloated BBC
I am paying for it
against my will.

If they Stop the Stupid Outdated Tax
and use "P" Product Placement
and ads
they can move on.

[the truth]

absolutely pathetic....they've been saying all of this was racism for 20 years now they are exposed as utterly fake with their endless fake outrage and fake racist accusations, now the truth is out and the facts and figures as delivered by farage and co for years has exposed the new labour charlatans....the to think any party who murdered 1 million plus foreigners in an illegal could preach to anyone about racism is unbelievable...new labour is truly the most transparent cowardly dangerous pernicious self serving sub human party that ever existed...no wonder old school socialists like tony benn despised it and the vile war criminal tony bliar

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/5/24/394811/default/v0/i-1-720x960.jpg

Bang Bang
were Off


Rock on late 2017

[arista]

And Ref: 16 year old voters for England
thats a Labour Policy
and they Fecked up and Lost the Election.


We are now in a Conservative Power
and for Scotland they have SNP
my mates
that killed off Labour MP's

[Kizzy]

How can they push ahead without the say so of the Scots and Welsh, We are still the UK?

[joeysteele]

How can they push ahead without the say so of the Scots and Welsh, We are still the UK?

If he fails to make the referendum locked as to that all 4 Countries of the UK must vote to leave, then if the result is to leave, Nicola Sturgeon has already indicated that could be a change to trigger off another independence referendum in Scotland.

He has many headaches to come on this referendum for sure.

He would bring about a constitutional crisis if he imposes on Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the leaving of the EU even if they voted to stay.
It would be even worse,if they voted heavily to stay in,but the South of England voted to leave.
The then new and greater divisions in the UK in that scenario would be massive.

He also needs to do, what the Scots did in the independence referendum, allow those aged 16 and 17 to vote in it too.

It is going to be over 40 years since the last Europe referendum issue was held, it would be wrong,in my view, not to allow those aged 16 and 17 by the time of the referendum, not to have their say as to the future of the UK and the EU.
They are after all, the future of the UK.

I really think he hoped he could get out of this, by not having a majority and blaming same on a coalition situation again.
Now he has a small majority and further that Labour have now said they will vote for a referendum, he really has to get this 100% spot on.
No room for any error or poor procrastination on this one,or he could yet still be the Prime Minister of the UK, who failed to keep the UK in the EU and also who finally split the UK as well into breaking up.

He gambled hard with this referendum policy, he has to ensure he wins on all counts,not just some.
I wouldn't like to be in his place as to this,then again I wouldn't have gone down the road he has.

This may yet turn into his absolute worst nightmare scenario and now with Labour supporting his referendum, he has no way out of it either.

[Kizzy]

Ah I see, he won't have the backing of the media either as he did in the election as Murdock won't give a rats if we're in or out. :/

[arista]

"allow those aged 16 and 17 to vote in it too."

so what Joey
England is not part of SNP Scotland


In the UK is was a flash in the pan
Labour policy.

They lost


Conservatives set the Rules now
not your sad party

[joeysteele]

"allow those aged 16 and 17 to vote in it too."

so what Joey
England is not part of SNP Scotland


In the UK is was a flash in the pan
Labour policy.

They lost


Conservatives set the Rules now
not your sad party

If he wants to leave anything open to criticism that he tried to 'engineer' a result, then he will not give 16 and 17 year old's the vote for this.
However,he is gambling heavily with their and the UK citizens futures.

Even worse would be, if he brings the referendum bill to parliament,without giving the vote to 16 and 17 year old's, then the opposition parties put forward an amendment to the bill for them to be included.
If he then ensures defeat for that amendment, he will be in very deep water once the result is announced,if it is a vote to leave the EU.

Also this referendum is not just about England either arista, it is for the whole UK and we have 4 Nations making up the UK.

If he presides over a result where Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland vote to stay in, the North of England votes narrowly to stay in too but the far South vote to come out heavily.
If he really takes the UK out of the EU against the wishes of the other Nations of the whole UK, he will open up, not a can or worms but the deadliest snakes imaginable.

He will have chaos in the UK,if he only gears this, as you seem to think he should, just to please those from the far South of England who are in effect, the only people who elect him to govt. across the whole UK.

He himself allowed the precedent to be set for those aged 16 and 17, when he allowed the Scots to include them in their independence referendum and therefore those young people's future.

If on the future of the UK in the EU, he now excludes those young people from having their say too in the EU referendum,he will leave himself and his govt. totally discredited as to fairness, and in fact, as to the likely legitimacy of the EU referendum at all.

He is not,as you would maybe like him to be, just Prime Minister of England,he is PM of the whole 4 nations of the UK and if he disregards their wishes as to his referendum, he goes down a very dangerous path indeed,taking the whole UK with him too.

Which if it goes really wrong, will all be firmly laid at his door, no one elses.
He had to approve the wording and method of the independence referendum in Scotland, so Scotland,Wales and N.Ireland should be afforded the same courtesy as to their wishes on this EU referendum too.

As I said, this could yet become his and indeed the UK's. worst nightmare in the whole history of the United Kingdom,(outside of world wars), if he gets just one tiny part of the planning wrong.

[Kizzy]

Who will this benefit in or out?...

'The government has ruled out extending the right to vote in the upcoming EU referendum to all British citizens living abroad, despite a promise made by the Conservative party chairman that it would.

The EU referendum bill, which will be announced after the Queen’s speech on Wednesday, will make clear that the franchise – the people eligible to vote – will be the same as in general elections, which is adults from the age of 18, Irish and Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK, and British citizens who have lived abroad for less than 15 years.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/25/eu-referendum-voting-rights-not-extended-all-uk-citizens-abroad

[arista]

[he is PM of the whole 4 nations of the UK]

Of Course he is PM of the whole of UK

but in Political terms SNP run Scotland
just one MP each of the 3 other parties

[joeysteele]

Who will this benefit in or out?...

'The government has ruled out extending the right to vote in the upcoming EU referendum to all British citizens living abroad, despite a promise made by the Conservative party chairman that it would.

The EU referendum bill, which will be announced after the Queen’s speech on Wednesday, will make clear that the franchise – the people eligible to vote – will be the same as in general elections, which is adults from the age of 18, Irish and Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK, and British citizens who have lived abroad for less than 15 years.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/25/eu-referendum-voting-rights-not-extended-all-uk-citizens-abroad

Kizzy, he has a long way to go on this yet, wait until it comes to parliament for its readings, he will likely wish he had never promised one.

A lot at stake here,it's not like in Harold Wilson's,Labour referendum on the common market.
No matter the result then, there were no Scottish or Welsh assemblies and no threat to the UK as a whole.

With this one however, there could be a massive constitutional crisis if it is a 'no' vote from only one Country of the UK or even moreso just the far South of that Country too.
There are also going to be Conservative MPs fighting for and others against staying in, as there will be from Labour too, although far less wanting out from Labour.

He can have no certainties as to this and the outcome of it either,it is also going to consume politics and his govt. for at least the next 2 years.
If he decides to also hold the referendum earlier than 2017, and gets a vote to leave the EU, again he will be massively criticised for not allowing the EU nations,the promised time to consider his re-negotiations.

As I said, I would hate to be him before this referendum, during it and especially after it.
No wonder his heroine,Margaret Thatcher, wouldn't even ever consider one on any issue.

[bots]

Its going to be interesting. The SNP are pro europe, same with the Welsh. The only party not pro europe are UKIP and we know that they are capable of getting at least 4 million votes.

It will have to be a free vote however (ie parties not whipped) so we will get for and against in every party which equals divides within parties for the next 2 years. If parties are divided on one issue it will spill out into others too. It could easily be a parliament where literally nothing gets done until the referendum is out the way.

[joeysteele]

[he is PM of the whole 4 nations of the UK]

Of Course he is PM of the whole of UK

but in Political terms SNP run Scotland
just one MP each of the 3 other parties

They couldn't hold the independence referendum until the UK govt. passed same.
They govern Scotland on a wide range of policy,they don't rule it, that is still done by the UK govt. even if the SNP had all 59 seats in Scotland.

The Scots and the SNP for instance cannot word the EU referendum for themselves, that will,or should be,agreed by consensus sought from the UK govt.

[arista]

They couldn't hold the independence referendum until the UK govt. passed same.
They govern Scotland on a wide range of policy,they don't rule it, that is still done by the UK govt. even if the SNP had all 59 seats in Scotland.

The Scots and the SNP for instance cannot word the EU referendum for themselves, that will,or should be,agreed by consensus sought from the UK govt.


JOEY

SNP have confirmed not this term


Yes they are under UK Control

But Politically its SNP


My mate the PM David
is busy working hard
the SNP start off later this week
should be fun in Westminster

[joeysteele]

Its going to be interesting. The SNP are pro europe, same with the Welsh. The only party not pro europe are UKIP and we know that they are capable of getting at least 4 million votes.

It will have to be a free vote however (ie parties not whipped) so we will get for and against in every party which equals divides within parties for the next 2 years. If parties are divided on one issue it will spill out into others too. It could easily be a parliament where literally nothing gets done until the referendum is out the way.

I think you are right as to how much time this is going to take up as to govt' business.
It isn't likely to be a free vote however as it is govt. policy.
Although now, it would make no difference with Labour supporting a referendum even if he decided to do it that way.

However once it is passed in parliament, then the for and against camps of MPs from both main parties can join forces and campaign freely.

[bots]

I think you are right as to how much time this is going to take up as to govt' business.
It isn't likely to be a free vote however as it is govt. policy.
Although now, it would make no difference with Labour supporting a referendum even if he decided to do it that way.

However once it is passed in parliament, then the for and against camps of MPs from both main parties can join forces and campaign freely.

Yes, i was meaning in terms of the referendum vote itself, everyone will have to back that a referendum will take place. I just think its going to be very divisive across the whole political spectrum. Its quite uncharted territory really with both sides having such strong views. We know what it did to the conservatives before, when the gloves are off, I can't see it being any different this time.

[joeysteele]

JOEY

SNP have confirmed not this term


Yes they are under UK Control

But Politically its SNP


My mate the PM David
is busy working hard
the SNP start off later this week
should be fun in Westminster

Nicola Sturgeon has been very careful to say there is no will for another referendum on independence during this parliament.
However she always qualifies that, with if there was a major change then that could trigger the need for another.

She outlined in the debates, that if there is no lock on the EU referendum that at least 3 and preferably all Nations of the UK have to vote to leave the EU, then were the result be to leave and Scotland had voted to stay in, that would be such a trigger for a new referendum as independence.

She is always careful to add that.
I still have the feeling she will ask in the Scottish elections next year,in the SNP manifesto, for the 'option' to seek another referendum if circumstances bring about major constitutional change.
Which is exactly what the UK,EU referendum,would do in the event of a vote to leave the EU,which Scotland is strongly opposed to doing.

I think you are allowing yourself to be blinded by Nicola Sturgeon as to how devious she can really be.
She is a formidable opponent and master of manipulation in getting what she wants.
David Cameron,I doubt, will ever be able to get one over on her.

[joeysteele]

Yes, i was meaning in terms of the referendum vote itself, everyone will have to back that a referendum will take place. I just think its going to be very divisive across the whole political spectrum. Its quite uncharted territory really with both sides having such strong views. We know what it did to the conservatives before, when the gloves are off, I can't see it being any different this time.

Absolutely, especially even moreso if the result looks like being a close one by the voters too.
If he thought coalition govt. was hard, he hasn't likely seen nothing yet.

[the truth]

delighted democracy has finally overcome the evil scum of new labour and given the people the democratic choice. now lets get into the detail

[empire]

labour are a pro eu, pro cheap labour party, they hate the working class, like the torys, they live in posh houses, in london, they shot racist if someone says that they would not live next door to romanians, but they would change there tune very quickly, if they moved next door to their posh area,

[the truth]

lord falconer just blamed the snp for labours defeat....what a twat