Atheist mum bans children from school trip to church and synagogue

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i4.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article9328534.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/atheist.jpg

An atheist mum has stopped her children from going on school trips to churches, mosques and synagogues because she does not want religion forced on them.

Claire Baker, 32, says she believes an atheist upbringing is as much a choice as being brought up with a religion - which she does not want forced on her son and daughter.

Instead she would prefer her children Benn, 12, and Katie, eight, to learn first aid, because it would be more useful.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/atheist-mum-bans-children-school-9328170

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How do you feel about this lady's decision?

[user104658]

We're completely unreligious but my daughter still goes to the church with school, was in the nativity, etc.

Long story short: the only people who can effectively "force" religion on a child is the parents themselves. So long as parents are providing context and commentary at home - actually talking to their kids about what they learn at school - they really shouldn't have to worry about indoctrination.

Plus I had a conversation with my daughter about church last week that was bloody hilarious... She told me that you can't see Jesus at church, but there's a guy who gets up to speak and that "he's dressed up as Jesus and pretends that he is Jesus" :joker:. Essentially she thinks that ministers are actors putting on little Jesus-based performances. Awesome. Who would want to miss that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree with the French that religion is a personal thing and as such should be only taught at home.

[Samuel.]

I'm atheist myself. I think RE needs to be thrown in with History at this point, with perhaps a politics-based class introduced instead.

I'm not sure I understand their point here though. With it being a range of religious buildings the school trips are visiting, it's not as if any one particular religion is being encouraged.

The one benefit from teaching religion is that it introduces different cultural beliefs to students and I think that's good for expanding their minds to being understanding and respectful to those cultures, and I think it could be more harmful than anything by sheltering a child from that.

[bots]

This is about education, not religion. What the mother is doing is trying to exclude her children from religion putting her kids at a disadvantage in their educational maturity. Better to let them attend, but put her own views on it as they learn.

Silly woman

[arista]

http://i4.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article9328534.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/atheist.jpg

An atheist mum has stopped her children from going on school trips to churches, mosques and synagogues because she does not want religion forced on them.

Claire Baker, 32, says she believes an atheist upbringing is as much a choice as being brought up with a religion - which she does not want forced on her son and daughter.

Instead she would prefer her children Benn, 12, and Katie, eight, to learn first aid, because it would be more useful.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/atheist-mum-bans-children-school-9328170

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How do you feel about this lady's decision?


How Nice

[arista]

I'm atheist myself. I think RE needs to be thrown in with History at this point, with perhaps a politics-based class introduced instead.

I'm not sure I understand their point here though. With it being a range of religious buildings the school trips are visiting, it's not as if any one particular religion is being encouraged.

The one benefit from teaching religion is that it introduces different cultural beliefs to students and I think that's good for expanding their minds to being understanding and respectful to those cultures, and I think it could be more harmful than anything by sheltering a child from that.


You Are Most Wise

[Niamh.]

This is about education, not religion. What the mother is doing is trying to exclude her children from religion putting her kids at a disadvantage in their educational maturity. Better to let them attend, but put her own views on it as they learn.

Silly woman

Indeed

[Cherie]

This is about education, not religion. What the mother is doing is trying to exclude her children from religion putting her kids at a disadvantage in their educational maturity. Better to let them attend, but put her own views on it as they learn.

Silly woman

Exactly, these parents are depriving their children of experiences with their peers, visiting a mosque is not going to turn them into Muslims anymore than visiting Buckingham Palace will make them Royal

[JoshBB]

There's no harm in just letting them go.. it seems almost hateful to be so opposed to religion. I wouldn't class myself as necessarily religious myself, but that doesn't mean I cannot show respect and simply sit in a religious building and just be nice to people..

[MTVN]

This is about education, not religion. What the mother is doing is trying to exclude her children from religion putting her kids at a disadvantage in their educational maturity. Better to let them attend, but put her own views on it as they learn.

Silly woman

Yep pretty ignorant of her really

[T*]

Okay so I'm unreligious and so is my family, I do not understand why this woman is being.. Well... A dick about it, it's still good to learn about society

[Crimson Dynamo]

The mosque visit cost £5.00 the other 2 were free

[Ninastar]

There's no harm in just letting them go.. it seems almost hateful to be so opposed to religion. I wouldn't class myself as necessarily religious myself, but that doesn't mean I cannot show respect and simply sit in a religious building and just be nice to people..

one of the very few times we will agree on something! Well said!

[JoshBB]

The mosque visit cost £5.00 the other 2 were free

I'm assuming there were more activities in the mosque, either that or they're just cheap af.

one of the very few times we will agree on something! Well said!

ha thanks

[Cherie]

The mosque visit cost £5.00 the other 2 were free

They might have had to travel by bus to the Mosque, whereas the church and synagogue were in walking distance?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would rather have someone who knows about first aid helping me if i had an accident than some one praying for me..

[bots]

I would rather have someone who knows about first aid helping me if i had an accident than some one praying for me..

and you would trust an 8 year old to give you first aid :umm2:

[Kizzy]

Why the visits? the education is ok and accepted as part of the national curriculum, it's the organised visit she opposed to, they could have gone anywhere covering any subject, museum, art gallery, OAP home. Having three trips would not run cheap, there's extra staff, insurance travel costs, then risk assessments, letters home, permission slips.
I'm not sure why this is news really, if it's driven home that it's fine to be of differing faiths then why is it seized upon to not extol any one faith, or any faith?

[Crimson Dynamo]

and you would trust an 8 year old to give you first aid :umm2:

If all there was was an 8 year old and they could help yes, of course

[Crimson Dynamo]

As has been said. Beliefs in crazy stuff can be easily covered in History in one lesson.

[divergent]

Being educated on religion I think is important rather than letting your kid grow up and have their opinions shaped by others and the media.

[Vicky.]

I don't see how visits and learning about other religions is forcing anything on the kid.

[Vicky.]

BUT, at the same time I do feel some people would be more sympathetic towards the (stupid) mother if, for example, she was a christian and banned mosque visits, or vice versa.

[MB.]

and you would trust an 8 year old to give you first aid :umm2:

What, and you'd refuse first aid if there was only an eight year old to administer it? :umm2:

[joeysteele]

This is about education, not religion. What the mother is doing is trying to exclude her children from religion putting her kids at a disadvantage in their educational maturity. Better to let them attend, but put her own views on it as they learn.

Silly woman

I agree.

Also I have come across many people who have no religious belief at all but who can admire the architecture and indeed history of Church buildings and monasteries too.

[Ammi]

I'm atheist myself. I think RE needs to be thrown in with History at this point, with perhaps a politics-based class introduced instead.

I'm not sure I understand their point here though. With it being a range of religious buildings the school trips are visiting, it's not as if any one particular religion is being encouraged.

The one benefit from teaching religion is that it introduces different cultural beliefs to students and I think that's good for expanding their minds to being understanding and respectful to those cultures, and I think it could be more harmful than anything by sheltering a child from that.


..I agree with this Samuel, learning different religions is also learning different cultures which only creates understanding and leaves for less prejudice etc...one of our classes recently met up with a class in a London city school and we're a country school with mainly Christian families and pupils whereas the other school is mainly Muslim families and children and I think only positives can come from them discussing differences in school/class sizes etc and general school ethics differences and also discussing aspect of their culture with each other and from a very young age...it could be much more potentially 'damaging' for them not to have these type of visits and interactions and also that may include places of worship as well...

[kirklancaster]

:clap1::clap1::clap1: To ALL Tibbies who have posted responses on here for their insight, intelligence and reasoning.

"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man"

So better to teach integration, tolerance and harmony, through education and association, than incubate racism, intolerance, and discord through segregation and ignorance.

[Brother Leon]

Stupid. Muslims still went to Church visits and Christians went the Mosque etc. Not sure why an Atheist couldn't go either.

[Crimson Dynamo]

better to teach ALL children that religion is backward and a superstitious cult fetish and move on as a humanity

:clap1:

[Mokka]

better to teach ALL children that religion is backward and a superstitious cult fetish and move on as a humanity

:clap1:

But to still give them the knowledge they need to come to their own conclusions, and make their own decisions.

If they have questions, and their parents view is to pretend religion doesn't exist or that it isn't up for discussion, they will go elsewhere to find the answers, and are therefore more susceptible to brainwashing.

I've seen it happen

[Ammi]

An atheist mum has stopped her children from going on school trips to churches, mosques and synagogues because she does not want religion forced on them.

Claire Baker, 32, says she believes an atheist upbringing is as much a choice as being brought up with a religion - which she does not want forced on her son and daughter.


..that doesn't really feel as though there is any choice and feels really she's doing the same thing that she objects to, which is stopping them from experiencing any choices..and forcing her decisions about religion onto them...surely they can only make choices if they're given experiences to make those choices...

[Mokka]

An atheist mum has stopped her children from going on school trips to churches, mosques and synagogues because she does not want religion forced on them.

Claire Baker, 32, says she believes an atheist upbringing is as much a choice as being brought up with a religion - which she does not want forced on her son and daughter.


..that doesn't really feel as though there is any choice and feels really she's doing the same thing that she objects to, which is stopping them from experiencing any choices..and forcing her decisions about religion onto them...surely they can only make choices if they're given experiences to make those choices...

Agreed Ammi

[Tom4784]

Atheists are as bad as religious people and this woman is a hypocrite.

[Ammi]

Atheists are as bad as religious people and this woman is a hypocrite.


..yeah I agree that she seems doing the exact thing that she's so against...posting her comments on Facebooke etc,/her objections doesn't make me think that she's giving her children a free choice a free choice would be a neutral stance and allowing her children to have access to everything they need to make their choices and helping them with that if she felt they needed it...it's just strange thinking, not really logical...

[Redway]

Atheists are as bad as religious people and this woman is a hypocrite.

I'd hardly call either group "bad" if they keep their views to themselves. Most atheists aren't like this woman at all.

[Kizzy]

Dear me just because they don't go to a mosque or church they can still understand cultural and ethical diversity, I agree with the French perspective and believe the arts are a better tool for teaching than religion.

[letmein]

She's their mother; it's up to her. Nothing to see here.

[letmein]

An atheist mum has stopped her children from going on school trips to churches, mosques and synagogues because she does not want religion forced on them.

Claire Baker, 32, says she believes an atheist upbringing is as much a choice as being brought up with a religion - which she does not want forced on her son and daughter.


..that doesn't really feel as though there is any choice and feels really she's doing the same thing that she objects to, which is stopping them from experiencing any choices..and forcing her decisions about religion onto them...surely they can only make choices if they're given experiences to make those choices...

Brainwashing and indoctrination kills choice.

[kirklancaster]

Brainwashing and indoctrination kills choice.

Yep - Absolutely. This cretin of a mother is certainly brainwashing her child and indoctrinating it into a future of fear, hatred and intolerance fuelled by ignorance.

Ammi's post (and the others) are 1,000% correct.

[the truth]

Atheists are as bad as religious people and this woman is a hypocrite.

theyre worse that Christians on average. they scream and shout , at least Christians do thei preaching in their Church. The Christians also do enormous good worldwide , clothing, feeding, education millions...the missionary work of Christian churches is phenomenal and is totally ignored by the hateful atheist movemen who only concentrate on the bad stuff and ignorantly lump all religions together, when in fact theyre massively different

this woman is a hypocrite a narrow minded bigot who is forcing her kids to go for her way of looking at the world, her views, her beliefs only. that's sick. shes a worse brainwasher than the vast majority of any Christians

[Ammi]

She's their mother; it's up to her. Nothing to see here.

Brainwashing and indoctrination kills choice.


..yeah I agree letmein, it is her choice as a parent because there is always the option of not allowing her children to participate..but that's the thing though, she wants them to have free choices without influence etc as she sees any religious based activity or trip and yet what she is doing is in itself influencing by showing her disapproval in such strong and definite ways..in not experiencing these things then how can they make free choices...their choices at such a young age will inevitably lean toward their parents views which is fine and understandable but it reduces balance also...


..I would think also that in a non Christian school and also with the cost of the visit that at the most this would be an annual trip for that year group so it wouldn't really indoctrinate or brainwash in any way and I think that's also what she's not considering...also it's not just that one day and visit that they're missing out on...it also excludes them from the excitement/build up etc that their peers are part of and then the excitement of discussing it all afterwards..when parents exclude their children from anything at school, I'm not sure that they always consider that exclusion from other perspectives for their child as well and for their child that it's less going to in any way cause influence etc and they're not thinking of it as a 'religious trip' themselves as such but more just an exciting school visit and a more chilled time to spend with their classmates...it just feels as though it's becoming more something of more importance and more what she sees as 'negative and influence' because the parents themselves are making it so and by doing that, causing strong influences themselves...

[arista]

Atheists are as bad as religious people and this woman is a hypocrite.


No I am Not


Make Every Church convert into a Gay Disco Bar.


Feel The Force

[kirklancaster]

No I am Not


Make Every Church convert into a Gay Disco Bar.


Feel The Force

I think what Dezzy meant Arista, is that EXTREME atheists are as bad as EXTREME religious people - in which case he is correct.

But you're not extreme Arista are you? :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

..yeah I agree letmein, it is her choice as a parent because there is always the option of not allowing her children to participate..but that's the thing though, she wants them to have free choices without influence etc as she sees any religious based activity or trip and yet what she is doing is in itself influencing by showing her disapproval in such strong and definite ways..in not experiencing these things then how can they make free choices...their choices at such a young age will inevitably lean toward their parents views which is fine and understandable but it reduces balance also...


..I would think also that in a non Christian school and also with the cost of the visit that at the most this would be an annual trip for that year group so it wouldn't really indoctrinate or brainwash in any way and I think that's also what she's not considering...also it's not just that one day and visit that they're missing out on...it also excludes them from the excitement/build up etc that their peers are part of and then the excitement of discussing it all afterwards..when parents exclude their children from anything at school, I'm not sure that they always consider that exclusion from other perspectives for their child as well and for their child that it's less going to in any way cause influence etc and they're not thinking of it as a 'religious trip' themselves as such but more just an exciting school visit and a more chilled time to spend with their classmates...it just feels as though it's becoming more something of more importance and more what she sees as 'negative and influence' because the parents themselves are making it so and by doing that, causing strong influences themselves...

More wisdom and balance from one of my favourite posters.

[arista]

I think what Dezzy meant Arista, is that EXTREME atheists are as bad as EXTREME religious people - in which case he is correct.

But you're not extreme Arista are you? :laugh:

no

[Kizzy]

I'm not an atheist and I don't agree with kids going to churches, what box do I tick?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm not an atheist and I don't agree with kids going to churches, what box do I tick?

:nono:

Kizzy you know fine well that the police told you you cannot vote again for a few years after the...ahem...election incident below..

http://s2.b3ta.com/host/creative/62095/1273140639/2010nationalballot.jpg

[arista]

I'm not an atheist and I don't agree with kids going to churches, what box do I tick?



Your with me

[Kizzy]

We'll just sit in your bunker and wait for these religions to get on....Have you got enough supplies for the next millennium?

[arista]

We'll just sit in your bunker and wait for these religions to get on....Have you got enough supplies for the next millennium?



Yes
and in WW3
sadly all those Churches go up in wooooosh
as Nuke in Vans are Evil but Effective.



Sign Of The Times

[Kyle]

Atheist myself but if excluding them from visiting churches and mosques is supposed to be about 'letting them make their own decision' then they might wanna take a look in the mirror.

Obviously the man needs to take a look in the mirror and realise he's wearing a dirty Leeds top :yuk:

[Kizzy]

He's brave appearing in a manc paper in that, he better start praying...

[kirklancaster]

:nono:

Kizzy you know fine well that the police told you you cannot vote again for a few years after the...ahem...election incident below..

http://s2.b3ta.com/host/creative/62095/1273140639/2010nationalballot.jpg

:laugh:

[Kizzy]

If that had been my handy work you know the phallus would only cover Glennon and Loughton :fan:

[kirklancaster]

If that had been my handy work you know the phallus would only cover Glennon and Loughton :fan:

And the ejaculated semen would cover BENN, BOARD and DOYLE because they are lagging so far behind the CONSERVATIVES and UKIP when it comes to policy, honesty and ideas, that EVERYONE'S BEEN SHOUTING:

"COME ON Labour".

"COME ON Green Party".

"COME ON Liberal Democrats".

:joker::joker::joker::dance::dance::dance:

[Kyle]

He's brave appearing in a manc paper in that, he better start praying...

He'll be reight Kizzy, most Man Utd fans are from London :hehe:

[empire]

what if she ban her children from going to a mosque, the media would yell racist, she may watch out for labour run area's, because they would get the social workers to take her children from her, atheists have the right not to let their children be forced into these trips.

[AnnieK]

He'll be reight Kizzy, most Man Utd fans are from London :hehe:

Now Kyle.....that's just mean :nono:

[lostalex]

as long as they are brought to the churches/synogogues/mosques as part of a history lesson, to be taught about the horrible injustices and bigotry religion has committed, then i don't see a problem with school children going. Just like children should see holocaust memorials and war memorials. War is bad, but it's still important for children to learn about it.

Obviously the teachers would use the opportunity at these places to point out the horrible homophobia and sexism and racism committed in the name of religion, and how it has shaped our modern world.

[smudgie]

Hmmmmm, fantastic parenting, splashing your kids face all over the media.

These parents are well within their rights to be atheists, but surely the way forward is for your child to explore all thngs new given the opportunity.
I wonder if the world has changes so much since my kids were that age, my sons friend went to church, in a community centre, my son thought he was missing out and wanted to go with him.
Ok, he lasted all of 3 weeks before he was banned for being too boisterous and running around, but at least he was given the chance.:shrug:

[Ammi]

Hmmmmm, fantastic parenting, splashing your kids face all over the media.

These parents are well within their rights to be atheists, but surely the way forward is for your child to explore all thngs new given the opportunity.
I wonder if the world has changes so much since my kids were that age, my sons friend went to church, in a community centre, my son thought he was missing out and wanted to go with him.
Ok, he lasted all of 3 weeks before he was banned for being too boisterous and running around, but at least he was given the chance.:shrug:

...hawwww, that made me laugh out loud, Smudgie..:laugh:...

[Kizzy]

Maybe he was possessed by the spirit of Arnold?

[Livia]

I don't think one religion should be taught in schools, but a broad knowledge of all faiths is common sense, surely.