Privatisaiton of the NHS begins?

[Kizzy]

'NHS regulators are to take control of health services in three entire regions of England where hospitals are failing, the Guardian has learned.

The move is an unprecedented measure to correct system-wide failure in three regions, that will be revealed by the chief executive of NHS England on Wednesday.

The Guardian understands that Essex is one of those areas. Hospitals there have been struggling with staff shortages, waiting time failures and financial problems that have damaged patient care.

Key NHS bodies and regulators will impose a newly-devised and euphemistically named “success regime” on the three parts of the country, and push through determined action to ensure hospitals, GP surgeries and other NHS service providers work together much more closely to tackle deep-seated problems which previous initiatives have failed to banish.'

Beginning of the end.


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/03/nhs-regulators-to-take-over-health-services-in-three-english-regions

[StephenPullen]

We all knew it would happen under the Conservatives - that's what you get for voting them in.

I can see an insurance system on the horizon like the one in the United States. The only difference between here and the United States is that here the average Joe Bloggs won't be able to afford to pay for an insurance policy or even pay towards an employer semi-subsidized health plan (if they will even happen here, which I doubt it will).

[Livia]

Typical Guardian doom, gloom and scaremongering.

[arista]

Typical Guardian doom, gloom and scaremongering.


Yes many at the Election
many said they want to get better in hospital
even if its a Private deal - but still free

Labour not trusted
that why they are out and in disarray

[joeysteele]

I still prefer to believe what the Doctors and Nurses say as to the real agenda of this govt as to the NHS.

This article in itself explains a little but there is more to come and it will not be likely pleasant.
I will still never believe or trust David Cameron with the NHS.

The vast majority of Doctors and Nurses want the best for the NHS and themselves too,they don't wish to engage in scaremongering, they are in the front line, they can see what is happening so I take their word over David Cameron's any day.

Fortunately,he only has a small overall majority so may need to cut back again heavily as to his 'real' plans for the NHS.

[Livia]

There are plenty of medical staff who don't trust Labour any more than they trust the Tories. It isn't a one-sided story.

[Kizzy]

Private but still free, how will that work then?

Here's the pdf if the Guardian reporting isn't sufficient.

'Over the next year we will co-design a programme of support with a small
number of selected areas and organisations that have already made good progress
and which are on the cusp of being able to introduce the new care models set
out in the Forward View. Our goal is to make rapid progress in developing new
models of promoting health and wellbeing and providing care that can then be
replicated much more easily in future years. Achieving this goal involves structured
partnership rather than a top-down, compliance-based approach. So we are today
extending an open invitation to local and national partner organisations to put
themselves forward by the end of January 2015 to work alongside us in creating and
implementing these new prototypes.'

http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/forward-view-plning.pdf

[JoshBB]

There are plenty of medical staff who don't trust Labour any more than they trust the Tories. It isn't a one-sided story.

I have relatives that work in the NHS and don't know anyone who trusts the tories even remotely

[Livia]

I have relatives that work in the NHS and don't know anyone who trusts the tories even remotely

I have relatives who work in the NHS, I have a friend staying with me who works in mental health and they all think Labour are a joke. Nothing is ever 100%.

[JoshBB]

I have relatives who work in the NHS, I have a friend staying with me who works in mental health and they all think Labour are a joke. Nothing is ever 100%.

:laugh:

Possibly a matter of the areas in which we live, my local hospital is in an area split between a centre-left and a right-wing constituency. In there none of them trust the conservatives but there's probably a minority of them out there. It's no secret that the NHS staff lean towards Labour, probably a result of the cuts? Those huge ones they unveiled?

Now I'd really like to know if they are dedicated to their £8bn promise.

[JoshBB]

This shouldnt be a matter of blaming parties anyway, but this whole principle of privatisation is a dangerous one and we should not let ourselves be dragged into pointing fingers but instead doing whatever we can to prevent it

[the truth]

I have relatives that work in the NHS and don't know anyone who trusts the tories even remotely

anyone is more trustworthy than the evil liars from new labour party....they even destroyed labour legends like tony benn

[the truth]

:laugh:

Possibly a matter of the areas in which we live, my local hospital is in an area split between a centre-left and a right-wing constituency. In there none of them trust the conservatives but there's probably a minority of them out there. It's no secret that the NHS staff lean towards Labour, probably a result of the cuts? Those huge ones they unveiled?

Now I'd really like to know if they are dedicated to their £8bn promise.

they are dedicated and they've stated it umpteen times and have the money. they have the money because the economy is vastly better under them than the dreadful new labour who bankrupted the country and despite increased vastly the expense on public sector jobs the corruption and abuses reach all time high , new labour then covered up the phenomenal systematic abuse across the whole country especially in social services see Rotherham and the nhs see Stafford hospital and many more...under new labour 25,000 innocent people died of undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals and the hospitals became the filthiest in Europe where mrsa was 70 times higher in the uk than in Scandinavian countries....since the tories got in, theres been no mrsa no mass scandals like Stafford or Rotherham..........and thousands more people died on Saturday and sunday because the hospitals were understaffed, the rotas were inflexible and the scanners were all off on weekends...what an absolute disgrace, thousands dying simply because of staff rotas and scanners turned off...many of those idiots should be done for manslaughter

this move will save the nhs millions in middle management and frankly frighteningly wasteful corrupt trusts

and yes the service will still be free, that is written in stone

go for it dave

Cameron wants a 7 day a week nhs

[the truth]

This shouldnt be a matter of blaming parties anyway, but this whole principle of privatisation is a dangerous one and we should not let ourselves be dragged into pointing fingers but instead doing whatever we can to prevent it

no more dangerous than what we had under new labour.....the nhs should claim back on travel insurance foreign insurance and the people cared for at home if they have private care policies then that should be claimed back by nhs trusts....the ombudsmen must be strengthened , more staff dealing with complaints anonymously....no more cover ups...cut back the wasteful middle management.....rent out empty wards and rooms ......but keep the service free

there is nothing wrong at all with these policies which save a fortune for the nhs

and keeping the scanners on 7 days a week and vastly more hours will save millions of lives over the years

[StephenPullen]

they are dedicated and they've stated it umpteen times and have the money. they have the money because the economy is vastly better under them than the dreadful new labour who bankrupted the country and despite increased vastly the expense on public sector jobs the corruption and abuses reach all time high , new labour then covered up the phenomenal systematic abuse across the whole country especially in social services see Rotherham and the nhs see Stafford hospital and many more...under new labour 25,000 innocent people died of undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals and the hospitals became the filthiest in Europe where mrsa was 70 times higher in the uk than in Scandinavian countries....since the tories got in, theres been no mrsa no mass scandals like Stafford or Rotherham..........and thousands more people died on Saturday and sunday because the hospitals were understaffed, the rotas were inflexible and the scanners were all off on weekends...what an absolute disgrace, thousands dying simply because of staff rotas and scanners turned off...many of those idiots should be done for manslaughter

this move will save the nhs millions in middle management and frankly frighteningly wasteful corrupt trusts

and yes the service will still be free, that is written in stone

go for it dave

Cameron wants a 7 day a week nhs

When will you be receiving your invitation to the Conservative party dinner - you must be a big contributor?

[smudgie]

Hopefully if gets a good shake up.
I am all for stopping these ridiculous rates earned by doctors and nurses from the agencies, management/admin are a big drain as well, hoping for savage cuts and wage cuts for those at the top.

[Livia]

:laugh:

Possibly a matter of the areas in which we live, my local hospital is in an area split between a centre-left and a right-wing constituency. In there none of them trust the conservatives but there's probably a minority of them out there. It's no secret that the NHS staff lean towards Labour, probably a result of the cuts? Those huge ones they unveiled?

Now I'd really like to know if they are dedicated to their £8bn promise.

What's with the laughing emoticon?

The friend I have staying with me works in Newham, FYI.

[Livia]

Hopefully if gets a good shake up.
I am all for stopping these ridiculous rates earned by doctors and nurses from the agencies, management/admin are a big drain as well, hoping for savage cuts and wage cuts for those at the top.

Couldn't agree more.

[Vicky.]

Honestly, given my experience with the NHS in the past year or so, its possible private companies could do better. As logn as its still going to be 'free' I'm not too arsed now.

Basically, I now have to wait a MONTH to see a doctor, despite being repeatedly told its not possible to book appointments more than a week in advance...work that one out :shrug:

I waited 4 months for a pain clinic appointment, only to be told when I got there that its been double booked and I had to rearrange it. Called to rearrange it and was told the hospital had marked me down as did not attend, so now have to wait for new referal again :facepalm:

Also have been meant to be getting scan on liver/gallbladder for ages now to see if thats whats causing pain...been waiting and waiting for appointment to come through. Then randomly received a letter stating as I did not attend last one, **** me basically. However..the reason I did not attend is because I have 2 young kids to look after alone..and they changed the appointment time from 12pm (which would have been fine as I had a sitter sorted) to 9am. And sent the letter out 2 days before the appointment so Im lucky I even got it before the appointment day tbh. I called as soon as I got it saying no way would I be able to get there for that time, and again, was told it would be rearranged...and now no.

Its a ****ing joke.

[arista]

"Basically, I now have to wait a MONTH to see a doctor, despite being repeatedly told its not possible to book appointments more than a week in advance...work that one out"

Its wrong
it appears summer months are overloaded

[Jamesy]

Well the government are purposely pushing the NHS so it has to become privatized, but still free to the public.

They can talk as much as they like about putting in billions of pounds here and there although they don't support themselves with where that money is going and the specific actions they will take to improve certain areas. All they come out with is very generalized comments about how much money they're going to spend, while that may delude some people enough for them to believe the Tories are doing enough for the NHS, I'm sure for many others like myself that's not an answer.

As usual with many other things David Cameron goes off on a tangent, keeping generalized statements so when he does do certain things, like privatizing the NHS, no one can blame him for going back on his word because he didn't propose anything in the first place.

The NHS is slowly being left to fall apart, Cameron will privatize more areas of the NHS (he already did a few months ago) and when the NHS can cope with demand under a private system people will praise Cameron for saving the NHS. When in reality all he had to do was pump those billions of pounds into changing the NHS systems and providing more staff across the entire NHS. But that's the Tories for you, they want it private so they can start making profits off it.

[Kazanne]

STOP ...................................blinking moaning,things will be fine :hehe:

[Kizzy]

Blinkers.... yep, that just about sums it up.

Nothing private will ever be free, to stave off another mid staffs debacle staffing shortages have to come from agency workers... at a cost to the trust because they have them over a barrel basically.

Who is to blame?

I'm not sure why Labour have been brought into the discussion, these changes have nothing whatsoever to do with the last government :/

[Kazanne]

Blinkers.... yep, that just about sums it up.

Nothing private will ever be free, to stave off another mid staffs debacle staffing shortages have to come from agency workers... at a cost to the trust because they have them over a barrel basically.

Who is to blame?

Just being lighthearted here Kizzy,I'm not gonna get down about anything that hasn't happened yet,lifes too short.:wavey:

[AnnieK]

Just being lighthearted here Kizzy,I'm not gonna get down about anything that hasn't happened yet,lifes too short.:wavey:

Too true Kaz...I will reserve judgement until we know for sure I guess

[Kizzy]

Ah right, thanks for the comments then :thumbs:

[joeysteele]

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

[the truth]

When will you be receiving your invitation to the Conservative party dinner - you must be a big contributor?

Ive never voted tory in my whole life, but I just see all sides of the argument and in this the tories are a lot more right than new labour...unlike the new labourites on here I actually care more about the fact camerons government are saving more lives scanning more people and aiming for a far better service. new labour just covered everything up....lives matter more than party politics

[the truth]

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

baseless evidence free scaremongering nonsense
Cameron has completely and utterly exposed the lies the cruel cover ups and widespread systematic abuse found in care homes, social services and hospitals under new labour.....just look at the way labour are messing up the welsh nhs and refusing to accept the evidence of their failings. carwyn jones pretty much mocked ann clwyds finding on the abuse and negligence
disgusting deluded dangerous party. id back anyone ahead of those crooks

[Kizzy]

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

Bingo... Exactly my fears too Joey that fewer and fewer services that are gifted to these everso helpful and grateful organisations are funded by the NHS leading to more and more deaths and more 'evidence' that it's failing.

[JoshBB]

baseless evidence free scaremongering nonsense
Cameron has completely and utterly exposed the lies the cruel cover ups and widespread systematic abuse found in care homes, social services and hospitals under new labour.....just look at the way labour are messing up the welsh nhs and refusing to accept the evidence of their failings. carwyn jones pretty much mocked ann clwyds finding on the abuse and negligence
disgusting deluded dangerous party. id back anyone ahead of those crooks

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

[Kizzy]

I don't want this thread closed, please could we discuss the current issue and not the irrelevant left/right silly and predictable nonsense.

[joeysteele]

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

I agree.Very good post again JoshBB.
Have you considered a career in politics,you have the same interest and analysis I had when I was 13 onwards.

I make my points on what I have seen 'in practice' and from the great knowledge of my family who work in the NHS, I almost went into medicine myself as a lot of my family have.
I know what I am saying is right,it doesn't mean I cannot learn from others,if anyone puts a reasoned point,I will happily debate and respond but there are some vexations who are best avoided and I do so.

This is also a very important issue as Kizzy has said, anything that helps highlights the wrongs as to future NHS policies should be made known and debated.
Also too, fought against as well.

[JoshBB]

I agree.Very good post again JoshBB.
Have you considered a career in politics,you have the same interest and analysis I had when I was 13 onwards.

I make my points on what I have seen 'in practice' and from the great knowledge of my family who work in the NHS, I almost went into medicine myself as a lot of my family have.
I know what I am saying is right,it doesn't mean I cannot learn from others,if anyone puts a reasoned point,I will happily debate and respond but there are some vexations who are best avoided and I do so.

This is also a very important issue as Kizzy has said, anything that helps highlights the wrongs as to future NHS policies should be made known and debated.
Also too, fought against as well.

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

[Kizzy]

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

Josh you would be so beneficial in your community, contact your local councillor I bet you would be a real asset for them as a supporter for local issues as a jumping off point :)

[joeysteele]

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.



Never let that hold you back please.
You have great knowledge and in depth analysis as to what you say over a wide range of issues relating to politics.
I would say politics could do with more of your standing.

I agree too with your point as whichever party is proposing bad changes as to the NHS.
I certainly would be as hard on Labour if I felt they were doing bad things as to the NHS,just as I am for this present govt.

I accept any organisation the size of the NHS needs constant scrutiny and updating, things will always go wrong at times which are no govts. fault really.
However,unnecessary changes such as was done in the last 5 years and now the new plans that are unfolding slowly,in my view, justifiably need criticising and stopped if at all possible.

[JoshBB]

Josh you would be so beneficial in your community, contact your local councillor I bet you would be a real asset for them as a supporter for local issues as a jumping off point :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me. :laugh:

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

[Kizzy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me. :laugh:

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

Ah, then how about just the organisations that you personally are passionate about, fund raise for your chosen charity or a local cause?

[the truth]

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

My post is based on FACTS. Yours is NOT.
My post is based on what DID happen, yours is based on a biased negative perception what MAY happen in the with the party you dislike running the country and the NHS
economy - tories miles ahead of new labour
nhs - tories spending more money than new labour, exposing more of the waste over burocracy, neglect and cover ups.
scandal-far far less scandal under the tories than new labour. you choose to believe this is all because of the right wing media, its not its FACTS.
Not even the right wing media can rewrite the unemployment rates halving, the jobs rising by over 2 million, the total lack of another mrsa outbreak...not even the right wing media can be blamed for the horrors of Stafford hospital, the 20 years of covered up child abuse at Rotherham council or the endless lies over the Iraq war
I have witnessed the enormity of lies and cover ups first hand in my own dealings with new labour and the nhs. These are FACTS I can back up EVERY WORD I WRITE. YOU CANT. You don't even acknowledge the specific abuses under new labour and demand an apology? why are you and the other new labourites screaming mad about the endless lies and abuses that lead to the deaths of thousands , in fact over a million?
yet youre more worried about me pointing it out than the actual war crimes and endless cover ups leading to all these deaths. I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself and your priorities.

NEW LABOUR ARE EVIL!

[the truth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me. :laugh:

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

racist? Let me tell you the worst act of discrimination in this countries history is not using the wrong adjective as new labour would have you believe, but blowing up and illegally killing over a million innocent people, now that is the ultimate discrimination...I suggest you feel more offended about that than your ukip neighbour .......deary me, priorities up the spout
(youll now proceed to be more offended by me and ignore the Iraqi debacle

[joeysteele]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me. :laugh:

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

You have plenty time Josh, think about it.
All my best to you and I really do think you are reasoned and very detailed in a non insulting or aggressive way as to making your valid points and when challenging others as to their points.
All things which would all serve you well in politics.

That will take you a long way and earn you lots of respect too.

[joeysteele]

racist? Let me tell you the worst act of discrimination in this countries history is not using the wrong adjective as new labour would have you believe, but blowing up and illegally killing over a million innocent people, now that is the ultimate discrimination...I suggest you feel more offended about that than your ukip neighbour .......deary me, priorities up the spout
(youll now proceed to be more offended by me and ignore the Iraqi debacle

This is a thread about the NHS not the Iraq war, you are the one taking things off topic just as you always do as to your baiting of members just to cause trouble on threads.

[the truth]

You have plenty time Josh, think about it.
All my best to you and I really do think you are reasoned and very detailed in a non insulting or aggressive way as to making your valid points and when challenging others as to their points.
All things which would all serve you well in politics.

That will take you a long way and earn you lots of respect too.

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. sadly honesty is banned in new labour

[empire]

labour are no different from the tory's, when they got back into power in 97, they followed the tory, plan in privatisaiton, both labour and the tory's are to blame for how bad the nhs was run,

[Kizzy]

That was almost 20yrs ago now, and this govt have been in for the last 5 setting wheels in motion for huge changes, bigger by the looks of it than anything ever proposed before.

[the truth]

That was almost 20yrs ago now, and this govt have been in for the last 5 setting wheels in motion for huge changes, bigger by the looks of it than anything ever proposed before.

selective memory as always....you talk about the past when it suits you and ignore it when it suits you, total hypocrisy

[Livia]

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

Of course it wouldn't hold you back. Decide which party you're going to support and join their 'young' section it'll probably only cost you a fiver or so. You'll get to meet up with lots of like-minded young people. If there's one thing this country needs it's young, dedicated, intelligent, politically minded people - whichever party you support. You can stand as a council candidate once you're eighteen, even if you stand as a paper candidate it'll give you lots of experience to take forward. If you go on to uni there's bound to be a youth branch (don't know what to call it, every party calls their secton for young people something different) of your party there too.

Don't let anything hold you back.

[the truth]

good advice for you there josh