'We don't care if she's 98... she's not dead, so get her cash'

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/06/21/2968DACC00000578-3113793-image-m-25_1433624136491.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/06/21/2940352E00000578-3113793-image-a-1_1433623109261.jpg
[Government inquiry: Olive Cooke, 92,
fell to her death after being bombarded
by charities begging for cash]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3113793/We-don-t-care-s-98-s-not-dead-cash-MoS-exposes-tactics-cynical-call-centre-used-Britain-s-biggest-charities-including-Oxfam-Cancer-Research-UK-RSPCA.html#ixzz3cLyXjrB7
Video On Link

[Cynical call centre used by Britain's biggest charities including
Oxfam, Cancer Research UK and the RSPCA
Call centre refused to remove phone numbers of people who complained
Recruits trained how to prey on 98-year-old pensioner and cancer sufferers
Secret filming by MoS reveals tactics used to squeeze cash from donors
Charities Minister demands inquiry after callous methods were exposed]


See JoshBB
this is a Good Paper
Exposing Corruption at Charities


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/06/21/2968DDEB00000578-3113793-image-m-4_1433623591220.jpg
I want Chuggers BANNED

[Ammi]

..in general I don't really get involved very much with the bigger charities because I do think there is corruption on different levels and a huge amount of the funds don't get through to where it was intended to be...I don't also believe so much in giving cash either and think that there are other direct ways to do things which aren't open to corruption etc...

[arista]

..in general I don't really get involved very much with the bigger charities because I do think there is corruption on different levels and a huge amount of the funds don't get through to where it was intended to be...I don't also believe so much in giving cash either and think that there are other direct ways to do things which aren't open to corruption etc...


I do not agree with you

[Ammi]

I do not agree with you

..ok, Arista...

[Smithy]

Olive Cooke, 92, fell to her death after being bombarded by charities begging for cash

sorry but how is her falling in anyway linked to the charities??

[Toy Soldier]

Ammi just got schooled...

Anyway, on topic, I remember being taught in schools that one of the reasons it's "really bad" to make prank phone calls to random numbers is because you might phone some old person who might jump up to answer the phone and fall and break their hip... Something like that. I'm pretty sure this was just a sensationalist deterrent but it's always struck me that these days it wouldn't matter if kids were peak calling everyone - because landlines ring 20 times a day anyway with charities, salesmen and "you might be owed PPI" calls. I keep mine unplugged most of the time unless I actually need to use it because it just rings constantly...

Oh I also went for an interview at a call centre once and during the course of the interview found out that the job basically involved cold calling elderly people to try to get them to sign up for a service to prepare their last will and testament! Wtf! "Hello, Mrs Smith? Our database shows that you are old and will most likely die soon, do you have a will sorted?". Wtf is that?? Thankfully I didn't get that particular job. I think my "wut???" face in the interview probably put them off.


However... All of these things pale in comparison to my pet peeve : charity salespeople that stop you in the street. No no no no no no just go away and leave me alone!

[Ammi]

Ammi just got schooled... Anyway, on topic, I remember being taught in schools that one of the reasons it's "really bad" to make prank phone calls to random numbers is because you might phone some old person who might jump up to answer the phone and fall and break their hip... Something like that. I'm pretty sure this was just a sensationalist deterrent but it's always struck me that these days it wouldn't matter if kids were peak calling everyone - because landlines ring 20 times a day anyway with charities, salesmen and "you might be owed PPI" calls. I keep mine unplugged most of the time unless I actually need to use it because it just rings constantly...

Oh I also went for an interview at a call centre once and during the course of the interview found out that the job basically involved cold calling elderly people to try to get them to sign up for a service to prepare their last will and testament! Wtf! "Hello, Mrs Smith? Our database shows that you are old and will most likely die soon, do you have a will sorted?". Wtf is that?? Thankfully I didn't get that particular job. I think my "wut???" face in the interview probably put them off.


However... All of these things pale in comparison to my pet peeve : charity salespeople that stop you in the street. No no no no no no just go away and leave me alone!



..:laugh:..schooled and scalped, ouch...I know someone, it was quite a few years ago, who was interviewed..(and offered..) an insurance sales job where basically he was told that the 'pitch' was to put fears' into people and of course, targeting elderly people was part of it as well...and they were a large 'reputable' company....fortunately he got offered another job so never had to do it but many people have to because otherwise they would be unemployed....people who really need a job are 'victims' as well I think in many cases...I have to say that one of my pet hates is targeting older people because quite often they're lonely as well and will commit to things because time is spent talking to them in the persuading...

[arista]

"targeting elderly people was part of it as well."


Yes they are Scum

[Ammi]

..yeah but in many cases I think people who desperately need a job so in the media, 'scum' if they do and 'scum' if they don't so a difficult one...

[arista]

No Ammi


Tricking a 90 year old
to take their money

Makes them REAL SCUM

[Ammi]

..I don't disagree as such but I think that there is sometimes and maybe quite often, more than one 'victim' and more than one person who is exploited with these things....

[jennyjuniper]

Quite often elderly people give as good as they get. A few months ago we started getting scam calls from India I believe saying that they were a representitive of Microsoft and needed to check details on our computer. I knew it was a scam straight away and gave them a few choice words (most bleepable) and hung up. But one old gal in our town gave them the runaround. She pretended to go along with it, told them they would have to wait a few minutes as her computer was old and took time to get started. Then she went off and had a cuppa and read a book for a couple of hours before finally hanging up.
The only thing they got from her was a hefty phone bill. :) :)

[Kizzy]

I think in the main that is unusual Jenny, the lady targeted in the article and thousands of others certainly are not such canny old birds.
The fact it was found she was not a victim of harassment suggests to me this is a government approved scam. Well, if the charities are getting money from 'soft targets' they won't need as much governmental support will they?

[smudgie]

Bloody parasites.
All cold calling should be banned.
It is getting to the point now with so many scammers etc ringing here I have even told hubby's boss to go and do one. Not my fault that I didn't recognise his voice and that the background noise sounded similar to a call centre.:shrug:

[Cherie]

Quite often elderly people give as good as they get. A few months ago we started getting scam calls from India I believe saying that they were a representitive of Microsoft and needed to check details on our computer. I knew it was a scam straight away and gave them a few choice words (most bleepable) and hung up. But one old gal in our town gave them the runaround. She pretended to go along with it, told them they would have to wait a few minutes as her computer was old and took time to get started. Then she went off and had a cuppa and read a book for a couple of hours before finally hanging up.
The only thing they got from her was a hefty phone bill. :) :)

Yes that fine, but there are alot of people young and not so young who are susceptible to the hard sell.

I have a few DDs set up for charities, in the past I used to donate to the bigger charities, they obviously sell details as on as I started getting cold called by other "bigger charities" once I joined, within two months of signing up I had a phone call asking me to donate a larger amount, eh if I was able or willing to donate a larger amount I would have done it at sign up two months previously, the guy at the other end of the phone was very persuasive and in the end I had to hang up to get rid of him, some people would be unable to do that as they would find it rude and might be talked into donating larger amounts, I donate to local charities now, as I don't agree with the practices of some of the bigger charities and their hard selling tactics, and yes some people will be able to handle the calls with ease but for others particularly more vulnerable people it might not be so easy.

[Ramsay]

Cold calling is the work of the devil

[arista]

Cold calling is the work of the devil


Yes Ammi is out of touch

[jennyjuniper]

Yes that fine, but there are alot of people young and not so young who are susceptible to the hard sell.

I have a few DDs set up for charities, in the past I used to donate to the bigger charities, they obviously sell details as on as I started getting cold called by other "bigger charities" once I joined, within two months of signing up I had a phone call asking me to donate a larger amount, eh if I was able or willing to donate a larger amount I would have done it at sign up two months previously, the guy at the other end of the phone was very persuasive and in the end I had to hang up to get rid of him, some people would be unable to do that as they would find it rude and might be talked into donating larger amounts, I donate to local charities now, as I don't agree with the practices of some of the bigger charities and their hard selling tactics, and yes some people will be able to handle the calls with ease but for others particularly more vulnerable people it might not be so easy.

It might be a good idea for councils and age concern to advise the elderly to get answer phones. That way they don't have to hurry to answer and can answer only if they want to.

[Ammi]

Yes Ammi is out of touch

...:laugh:..ok then Arista have it your way, I'll pop all cold callers on the dehumanised list and not give a thought to whether any of them are doing it because it's the only job that they could possible get and are being exploited too...

[Toy Soldier]

...[emoji23]..ok then Arista have it your way, I'll pop all cold callers on the dehumanised list and not give a thought to whether any of them are doing it because it's the only job that they could possible get and are being exploited too...
I definitely agree with you Ammi, most of the people actually making the calls are 16 - 25 year olds on minimum wage and what are they supposed to do? The Jobcentre hammers them with jumping through hoops, probably sent them to the interview in the first place, if they're offered but refuse to take the job their job seekers will be sanctioned. If you get sent to an interview and the interviewer takes you on, what option do you have but to do the job, even if it's morally questionable? It's all very well saying people should take a moral stand but it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Take the job and you're an unscrupulous abuser of the elderly. Don't take it and you have no income at all because they cut your JSA. Deliberately underperform in the interview and stay on JSA and you're "scrounging benefits scum".

It's the people who came up with the idea in the first place and run the company, and the people encouraging the use of bullying tactics, who are scum... Not the poor buggers chained to a phone all day.

[Kizzy]

I don't think anyone is seriously blaming the telephone operators :laugh:

[Ammi]

I definitely agree with you Ammi, most of the people actually making the calls are 16 - 25 year olds on minimum wage and what are they supposed to do? The Jobcentre hammers them with jumping through hoops, probably sent them to the interview in the first place, if they're offered but refuse to take the job their job seekers will be sanctioned. If you get sent to an interview and the interviewer takes you on, what option do you have but to do the job, even if it's morally questionable? It's all very well saying people should take a moral stand but it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Take the job and you're an unscrupulous abuser of the elderly. Don't take it and you have no income at all because they cut your JSA. Deliberately underperform in the interview and stay on JSA and you're "scrounging benefits scum".

It's the people who came up with the idea in the first place and run the company, and the people encouraging the use of bullying tactics, who are scum... Not the poor buggers chained to a phone all day.

..yeah, it's how they run their companies and the methods used and even it seems how some charities might be run and just another reason really why I prefer not to make cash donations to some of the larger charities/there are other ways...also obviously the call centres based in India as well, where it's basically phone 'sweatshop' work/exploitation of people who desperately need money to live and provide for their families...

[Toy Soldier]

I don't think anyone is seriously blaming the telephone operators [emoji23]
Arista is, he thinks they're "REAL SCUM".

[Vicky.]

I tell charity people who call or visit to piss off if they wont take no for an answer. I think its a pisstake that its even allowed. If people want to give to charity, they will give to charity, they dont need to be pressured, harassed and guilt tripped into doing so. We can't walk up our high street now without being pretty much chased by at least 2 charity workers (depending which day, Saturdays its usually 4) and a 'vanquis' credit card person. Its ridiculous.

This doesnt surprise me about calls centre 'training'...having worked in one myself when I was 16. We didn't have a 'system' to take people off as we were just handed pages from various phonebooks each shift...

[Toy Soldier]

..yeah, it's how they run their companies and the methods used and even it seems how some charities might be run and just another reason really why I prefer not to make cash donations to some of the larger charities/there are other ways...also obviously the call centres based in India as well, where it's basically phone 'sweatshop' work/exploitation of people who desperately need money to live and provide for their families...
Some of the big charities are awful for guilt tripping. I've had someone shout after me (as I avoid High Street charity salesmen like they're angry bears); "Oh so you don't care about kids with cancer then, that's nice!". D:

Big companies for all sorts of things are just as bad really, though. Angry official-seeming letters, completely false legal threats, debt collection threats, often for bills that have actually been paid, and all you get when you call is "Oh sorry, administrative error". I just get pissed off with these things now but a few years ago, when a demand for £100 "immediately" was an insurmountable ask, they used to make me pretty anxious. Which is crap even if you DO owe money. When you actually don't and it's "just an error" it's just not on.

[Ammi]

Some of the big charities are awful for guilt tripping. I've had someone shout after me (as I avoid High Street charity salesmen like they're angry bears); "Oh so you don't care about kids with cancer then, that's nice!". D:

Big companies for all sorts of things are just as bad really, though. Angry official-seeming letters, completely false legal threats, debt collection threats, often for bills that have actually been paid, and all you get when you call is "Oh sorry, administrative error". I just get pissed off with these things now but a few years ago, when a demand for £100 "immediately" was an insurmountable ask, they used to make me pretty anxious. Which is crap even if you DO owe money. When you actually don't and it's "just an error" it's just not on.

..with my friend and it was quite a few years ago now, the training which I think was around a month and based away so he was away from home, involved trying to make conversation with the person called to offer insurance and then picking up on things found out, like if that person was living alone, so many fears would be emphasised to make them afraid and things like that and make them feel that these insurances were something that they couldn't possibly live without even though the questions they were asked also made it obvious that they couldn't afford the insurances either...he was totally depressed at the thought of having to actually do the job, which went against everything he believed to be right but thankfully he was offered another job while he was doing the training and accepted that one straight away ...

[JoshBB]

I think the technique of constant badgering for money is inappropriate at best, and aggressive at worst. They should look into being polite tbh but the whole story just confuses me.

[Kizzy]

If people are employed by exploitative companies does that and should that absolve them?

[Lostie!]

sorry but how is her falling in anyway linked to the charities??

Her death is believed to have been a suicide, and it was first thought that the pressure from charities contributed to that, but her family have since said that the charities (while "a nuisance") weren't to blame.

[Kizzy]

Her son, Del Whelan, 62, said: “She thought she had done something wrong.” He said she also had health problems but the loss of the money and the impact of the cold-callers took their toll. “It was the constant drip of the begging letters. I think she found it difficult to say no. She had just had enough.”

I'd say they were a substantial contributory factor.

[arista]

I tell charity people who call or visit to piss off if they wont take no for an answer. I think its a pisstake that its even allowed. If people want to give to charity, they will give to charity, they dont need to be pressured, harassed and guilt tripped into doing so. We can't walk up our high street now without being pretty much chased by at least 2 charity workers (depending which day, Saturdays its usually 4) and a 'vanquis' credit card person. Its ridiculous.

This doesnt surprise me about calls centre 'training'...having worked in one myself when I was 16. We didn't have a 'system' to take people off as we were just handed pages from various phonebooks each shift...


You Are Most Wise

[arista]

Her son, Del Whelan, 62, said: “She thought she had done something wrong.” He said she also had health problems but the loss of the money and the impact of the cold-callers took their toll. “It was the constant drip of the begging letters. I think she found it difficult to say no. She had just had enough.”

I'd say they were a substantial contributory factor.

Very True, sadly

[Vicky.]

If people are employed by exploitative companies does that and should that absolve them?

The problem is, people HAVE to do what they can to make a living themselves. I hated my job, really hated it and I didn't even have to guilt trip people..I just had to tell them convincingly that they had won a holiday (after asking their jobs, to check if they are expected to have a household income of over 40k per year) which was actually just to get them to go along to a timeshare meeting where they would be pressured to sign up for it...

Yes, I feel if employed by the company, its unfair to blame the employee for doing crappy things. You do what you have to do to keep your job, especially right now. It wasn't as bad back then.

[Tom4784]

I'll have to remember to tell Cold Callers to remove my number from the list, we get it endlessly. It's not right.

Cold Calling should be illegal, it's harassment and there's no justification for it.

[Kizzy]

The problem is, people HAVE to do what they can to make a living themselves. I hated my job, really hated it and I didn't even have to guilt trip people..I just had to tell them convincingly that they had won a holiday (after asking their jobs, to check if they are expected to have a household income of over 40k per year) which was actually just to get them to go along to a timeshare meeting where they would be pressured to sign up for it...

Yes, I feel if employed by the company, its unfair to blame the employee for doing crappy things. You do what you have to do to keep your job, especially right now. It wasn't as bad back then.

I don't blame the employee either but the employer I do, it is legal and it shouldn't be. If they can't stop it they should make it easier for people to remove themselves from lists or have a specific number that restricts certain codes, anything to make it easier to protect yourself from this type of marketing.

This might be a solution .. :hehe:

'A man targeted by marketing companies is making money from cold calls with his own higher-rate phone number.
In November 2011 Lee Beaumont paid £10 plus VAT to set up his personal 0871 line - so to call him now costs 10p, from which he receives 7p.
The Leeds businessman told BBC Radio 4's You and Yours programme that the line had so far made £300.
Phone Pay Plus, which regulates premium numbers, said it strongly discouraged people from adopting the idea.
Mr Beaumont came up with the plan when he grew sick of calls offering to help him reclaim payment protection insurance (PPI), or install solar panels.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23869462

[Vicky.]

I don't blame the employee either but the employer I do, it is legal and it shouldn't be. If they can't stop it they should make it easier for people to remove themselves from lists or have a specific number that restricts certain codes, anything to make it easier to protect yourself from this type of marketing.

This might be a solution .. :hehe:

'A man targeted by marketing companies is making money from cold calls with his own higher-rate phone number.
In November 2011 Lee Beaumont paid £10 plus VAT to set up his personal 0871 line - so to call him now costs 10p, from which he receives 7p.
The Leeds businessman told BBC Radio 4's You and Yours programme that the line had so far made £300.
Phone Pay Plus, which regulates premium numbers, said it strongly discouraged people from adopting the idea.
Mr Beaumont came up with the plan when he grew sick of calls offering to help him reclaim payment protection insurance (PPI), or install solar panels.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23869462
I didnt know you could do that...I would set up one of those proper extortionate ones where its like $2 per minute or whatever :D

[Toy Soldier]

If people are employed by exploitative companies does that and should that absolve them?
Not of anything and everything, depends just how forceful they get and if they are obviously going "above and beyond" in their badgering in my opinion. But in a climate where turning down a job, quitting a job or deliberately getting fired from a job can mean complete financial ruin (all three could result in benefits being cut off completely, so no income at all) then yes I think it should absolve them. If they are not doing anything illegal and simply following the rules. What is the other option? What if that person has children? I mean, I hate the idea of cold calling and pestering elderly people but if it's a choice between that and seeing my own children go hungry (which is a perfectly realistic scenario with sanctions) then there is really no option at all.

[Kizzy]

Not of anything and everything, depends just how forceful they get and if they are obviously going "above and beyond" in their badgering in my opinion. But in a climate where turning down a job, quitting a job or deliberately getting fired from a job can mean complete financial ruin (all three could result in benefits being cut off completely, so no income at all) then yes I think it should absolve them. If they are not doing anything illegal and simply following the rules. What is the other option? What if that person has children? I mean, I hate the idea of cold calling and pestering elderly people but if it's a choice between that and seeing my own children go hungry (which is a perfectly realistic scenario with sanctions) then there is really no option at all.

It's another lovely hypothetical, although related it doesn't really have a baring on how I feel about the topic.

[reece(:]

..in general I don't really get involved very much with the bigger charities because I do think there is corruption on different levels and a huge amount of the funds don't get through to where it was intended to be...I don't also believe so much in giving cash either and think that there are other direct ways to do things which aren't open to corruption etc...
I agree Ammi, the only type of charity I would ever give to would be local for a good cause.

[Toy Soldier]

It's another lovely hypothetical, although related it doesn't really have a baring on how I feel about the topic.
:shrug: why ask, then?

[Kizzy]

It was a rhetorical question :)

[Z]

I tell charity people who call or visit to piss off if they wont take no for an answer. I think its a pisstake that its even allowed. If people want to give to charity, they will give to charity, they dont need to be pressured, harassed and guilt tripped into doing so. We can't walk up our high street now without being pretty much chased by at least 2 charity workers (depending which day, Saturdays its usually 4) and a 'vanquis' credit card person. Its ridiculous.

This doesnt surprise me about calls centre 'training'...having worked in one myself when I was 16. We didn't have a 'system' to take people off as we were just handed pages from various phonebooks each shift...

I had a door to door guy guilt trip me into signing up to donating £7 a month to a charity for blind and deaf children because I was hungover and I'd just turned 23. It took me about 7 months to cancel the direct debit, I felt really bad about it too. It's getting a bit out of hand in my opinion - you can't walk down a high street without feeling attacked and you're not even safe from them in your own home.

[Jack_]

Just before Christmas I had some girl from Save the Children (I think it was) approach me in the high street in a really strange, friendly way, she basically held out her arms as I was walking towards her and it was one of those 'do I know you? :umm2:' moments where I wasn't sure whether to hug her or not, so I stopped and we started having a conversation and she was asking me things that you would anyone you know, 'where are you off to then?', 'how's your week been?' but then things turned to 'aw what do you study?' so I realised I didn't know her.

Anyway then she said 'let's go over here out of the rain' and at this point I'd usually say nah I'm in a rush bye but she was hot (and was playing on it) so...she started explaining about donations, how the kids really need the money, there's people who are starving hungry etc and all that then and I tried to pass it off with the usual excuses about being a student, not having the money etc, but I did offer to do a one off donation (which I genuinely wouldn't have minded) but apparently 'we don't work like that, it has to be a monthly thing' which was like £3 a month and I'm really not up for committing to something like that which I'm then gonna be feel guilty of terminating a few months down the line. She then said 'I'll let you into a secret, this is my first day on the job and you'd be my first sign up' and explained about her interview process etc and basically tried to guilt trip me into it while all the while I stood there like :flutter:

Long story short I was this close to saying 'I'll do you a deal, I'll sign up if you give me your number' but thought it was probably a bit inappropriate saving the kids for my own gain and decided to walk away :joker: but yeah, they really do try to guilt trip you and it's awful

[Ammi]

..Jack..:laugh:..hey I just met you and this is charity..but here's my number, so call me maybe..

[Nedusa]

These people are a flaming menace and should be banned outright.

I'm so fed up being stopped by these morons who force you to listen to their mindless rantings and then follow after you attempt to walk away.

They help no one and cause offence to many.

My advice if accosted by these types is to scream louding into their faces
...." I'm not fcuking interested. .....just piss off and stop assaulting me"............

If this doesn't work then threaten them by stating that they have sexually assulted you and you are going to seek the assistance of the Police and have them arrested....

They soon jog on after that.

[Kizzy]

Or... instead of swearing and lying you could just keep walking?

[Cherie]

These people are a flaming menace and should be banned outright.

I'm so fed up being stopped by these morons who force you to listen to their mindless rantings and then follow after you attempt to walk away.

They help no one and cause offence to many.

My advice if accosted by these types is to scream louding into their faces
...." I'm not fcuking interested. .....just piss off and stop assaulting me"............

If this doesn't work then threaten them by stating that they have sexually assulted you and you are going to seek the assistance of the Police and have them arrested....

They soon jog on after that.

Blimey :laugh: I usually just say Im on a break and rushing back to work, or change direction and ignore their advances