Police survey finds just one in 10 beggars are homeless

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03344/A_beggar_on_the_st_3344911b.jpg

Just five out of 52 beggars in a British city are actually homeless, a police survey has revealed.

Half of those who are supposedly living on the streets and accepting handouts from generous passersby even own their own homes.

A further 16 people posing as being destitute admitted they actually lived with families or friends.

Officers in Nottingham city centre are now handing out fines of up to £200 to people persistently asking passers-by for money.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11681593/Police-survey-finds-just-one-in-10-beggars-are-homeless.html


Time to stop giving them money :nono:

[Vicky.]

Officers in Nottingham city centre are now handing out fines of up to £200 to people persistently asking passers-by for money.


Any excuse to fine people eh? What about the genuine homeless people, how on earth can they pay a 200 quid fine :laugh:

I can't believe the number of 'fake' homeless is that high...I know some do so it but its hard to believe its 1 in 10 tbh. Theres a guy in Durham, he brings this scruffy little dog with him and gets more because he has a dog, but he OWNS a home not far from where he begs.

Still don't believe only 1/10 are genuine though. I can't see them making much and they freeze their arses off sitting outside all day in all kinds of weather :S

[Crimson Dynamo]

Any excuse to fine people eh? What about the genuine homeless people, how on earth can they pay a 200 quid fine :laugh:

I can't believe the number of 'fake' homeless is that high...I know some do so it but its hard to believe its 1 in 10 tbh. Theres a guy in Durham, he brings this scruffy little dog with him and gets more because he has a dog, but he OWNS a home not far from where he begs.

Still don't believe only 1/10 are genuine though. I can't see them making much and they freeze their arses off sitting outside all day in all kinds of weather :S

No they are fining the pro beggars who are not genuine and rightly so. In an ideal world they would birch them but as that is not an option they fine them as what they are doing is making money under false pretences.

The cop survey is likely to be very accurate.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The man in the image is obviously at it

[Ninastar]

this is why i just give them food. i gave one in london one of my krispy kreme donuts. i wish i had that donut now :( (not because of this article, but because I like donuts)

[Kizzy]

How easy is it to spot who's genuine though? I don't think sofa surfing should count as having a home though so by rights those 16 should be factored in.

[Mokka]

Crashing at a friends doesn't mean you aren't homeless... homeless means not permanent address, and floating from one sofa to the next qualifies imo.

I don't know what it is like there, but in my experiences, the people on the streets begging are poor. I have met and visited young people with "homes" set up under overpasses, I have met old people who may have enough gov't assistance to pay for a closet sized room in a crappy, should be condemned, building, but not enough for food or clothes.

go ahead and judge away, but until you have personally looked into their situations, you really have no idea.

[Vicky.]

No they are fining the pro beggars who are not genuine and rightly so. In an ideal world they would birch them but as that is not an option they fine them as what they are doing is making money under false pretences.

The cop survey is likely to be very accurate.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that given how the press and such are trying to demonize homeless/poor people recently :/

People go on as if they are vermin or something, all of this 'lets put spikes in the ground here so they can't sleep under cover'...its ****ing disgusting really.

I don't believe they make much either sitting begging. So I cannot see why 9 out of 10 people on the streets are 'faking'...I really can't

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just do not give them money, send them to a charity and donate to it.

[Mokka]

Just do not give them money, send them to a charity and donate to it.

I have worked within a number of "charities" for the homeless... and I have to say I never found one worthy of giving money too. They are businesses making money off of homelessness existing imo

[Ammi]

...how does it make sense to fine someone who doesn't have any money...a great way to address a homeless issue/fine them...

[Crimson Dynamo]

...how does it make sense to fine someone who doesn't have any money...a great way to address a homeless issue/fine them...

Yes but they are fining the non-homeless who do this as a nefarious way to make easy money

[Mokka]

Yes but they are fining the non-homeless who do this as a nefarious way to make easy money

You honestly think there is easy money in being homeless?

Most panhandlers average under $5 a day sitting out there... it is rare and surprising for someone to drop a $20, and some days they get nothing

man, the idea's you get in your head :facepalm:

[Ammi]

Yes but they are fining the non-homeless who do this as a nefarious way to make easy money

...no though, they're avoiding doing something to actually help homeless people but don't like them making their street look 'untidy' ... so have decided to fine them to try to deter them from doing that...

[Crimson Dynamo]

You honestly think there is easy money in being homeless?

Most panhandlers average under $5 a day sitting out there... it is rare and surprising for someone to drop a $20, and some days they get nothing

man, the idea's you get in your head :facepalm:

Yes but MOkka, they aint homeless

in London they can make hundreds a day


read this tale:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11349189/Beggar-uses-card-reader-to-take-donations.html

[JoshBB]

...no though, they're avoiding doing something to actually help homeless people but don't like them making their street look 'untidy' ... so have decided to fine them to try to deter them from doing that...

Yes it is very wrong, and I hate that many Labour councils are doing this too as well as tory and ukip ones.

This story won't deter me from giving to beggars, by the way. Surely a sample size of just 52 is waaaaay too small to determine that only 10% of homeless people are genuine. Makes me wonder of their selection choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

£50,000-a-year beggar who lives in central London flat

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/06/article-2385453-1A4C0F07000005DC-943_306x454.jpg

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385453/50-000-year-beggar-lives-central-London-flat-claims-unwell-community-service-spared-jail-breaching-ASBO.html#ixzz3dQQWDkjd

[Ammi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11349189/Beggar-uses-card-reader-to-take-donations.html

..one self confessed conman..that's nothing to do with the homeless though...

[Ammi]

£50,000-a-year beggar who lives in central London flat

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/06/article-2385453-1A4C0F07000005DC-943_306x454.jpg

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385453/50-000-year-beggar-lives-central-London-flat-claims-unwell-community-service-spared-jail-breaching-ASBO.html#ixzz3dQQWDkjd

..I'm sure there a quite a few 'stories' but I would think a bit too wily to be handed the £200 fine...

[Crimson Dynamo]

..one self confessed conman..that's nothing to do with the homeless though...

and the 9/10 folk the police found on the street pretending to be homeless to get money were nothing to do with homeless either

luckily the police exposed this to save the public

[JoshBB]

and the 9/10 folk the police found on the street pretending to be homeless to get money were nothing to do with homeless either

luckily the police exposed this to save the public

9/10 of a sample size of just 52.

52 is not reflective of all homeless people in Britain. And if you want to reduce begging... here is a thought: stop slashing the welfare?

[Mokka]

..one self confessed conman..that's nothing to do with the homeless though...

I agree, the papers find the rare one or two to make an example from... but if anyone wants to know the truth, then it can be found out by going to any major center where the homeless end up, pick one random character, sit down, and ask them questions. I've seen the truth for myself, and these random articles can't persuade me

[Vicky.]

Wonder if some of these beggars with a home may be on a (disgusting) sanction actually. There is no other way to survive besides shoplifting and such :S

[Ammi]

and the 9/10 folk the police found on the street pretending to be homeless to get money were nothing to do with homeless either

luckily the police exposed this to save the public

John Louth, 43, who has been living on Nottingham's streets since September last year, said he often finds himself being woken up and moved on five times a night.

He admitted some beggars were exploiting Good Samaritans but said a £90 fine he received for begging offences was unfair.


..giving fines out is not set up to 'expose' though, It's an indiscriminate thing which is created to make revenue and it achieves very little else and homeless people are being asked to pay fines for their situation of having no money....

[Crimson Dynamo]

9/10 of a sample size of just 52.

52 is not reflective of all homeless people in Britain. And if you want to reduce begging... here is a thought: stop slashing the welfare?

No, it was about Nottingham town centre not the UK

[arista]

£50,000-a-year beggar who lives in central London flat

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/06/article-2385453-1A4C0F07000005DC-943_306x454.jpg

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385453/50-000-year-beggar-lives-central-London-flat-claims-unwell-community-service-spared-jail-breaching-ASBO.html#ixzz3dQQWDkjd


Guilty Fecker

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem is not the fake beggars but the mawkish people who give them money

[Ammi]

..I presume also that they'll be using these £200 paid fines from the 'non genuine' to help provide shelter and meals/warm clothing/washing facilities etc for the genuine...

[Vicky.]

..I presume also that they'll be using these £200 paid fines from the 'non genuine' to help provide shelter and meals/warm clothing/washing facilities etc for the genuine...

:joker: Fat chance. Will be used to put more spikes in sheltered places or something ridiculous like that :D

[Vicky.]

I don't give money to beggars actually, but if I am flush that day I will buy sandwiches or a hot drink or something. My reason for doing this is not that I think they are 'fake'...but that a lot (but obviously not all) of them are homeless because of drug addictions and stuff, so I dont feel right giving cash when it could be going towards heroin or something D:

[Mokka]

I don't give money to beggars actually, but if I am flush that day I will buy sandwiches or a hot drink or something. My reason for doing this is not that I think they are 'fake'...but that a lot (but obviously not all) of them are homeless because of drug addictions and stuff, so I dont feel right giving cash when it could be going towards heroin or something D:

I am actually the same as you in this Vicky, unless it is a kid that I know or have been around and I see a legit reason to give cash. I have been known to go by them a day transit pass to get them to a job interview.... or take them to a hostel to buy them a room for the night as well. But if it is questionable, I don't give straight cash

[Ammi]

:joker: Fat chance. Will be used to put more spikes in sheltered places or something ridiculous like that :D

....hmmm, I didn't think this through actually...if they take all of the nine £200 fines from the non genuine and give them to that one genuine homeless person then that would maybe start solving the situation so not so silly really...of course they are going to do that aren't they though....

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have never given a beggar money but I have not seen any for many years as its too cold up here to do that and there are no cities. In london in 15 years I never gave them money as there are plenty places for them to go than sitting on a pavement doing feck all. Most were gangs of crims anyrroad.

[the truth]

Any excuse to fine people eh? What about the genuine homeless people, how on earth can they pay a 200 quid fine :laugh:

I can't believe the number of 'fake' homeless is that high...I know some do so it but its hard to believe its 1 in 10 tbh. Theres a guy in Durham, he brings this scruffy little dog with him and gets more because he has a dog, but he OWNS a home not far from where he begs.

Still don't believe only 1/10 are genuine though. I can't see them making much and they freeze their arses off sitting outside all day in all kinds of weather :S

I do believe these figures. there are so many people who breed for benefits now and have the attitude of entitlement to free money. unless they have serious health problems they should go to work.

[letmein]

Why must you be homeless in order to beg? You can still be poor and living in squalor. How much money do you think these people are making sitting on the street? Stop making it sound like someone could turn this into a career. This sounds like an Ayn Rand propaganda piece.

There are people who use the money they get for drugs. You can take that into account, but don't make it that everyone sits on the street begging is trying to con people out of a pound in an effort to become a millionaire.

[Ammi]

Why must you be homeless in order to beg? You can still be poor and living in squalor. How much money do you think these people are making sitting on the street? Stop making it sound like someone could turn this into a career. This sounds like an Ayn Rand propaganda piece.

There are people who use the money they get for drugs. You can take that into account, but don't make it that everyone sits on the street begging is trying to con people out of a pound in an effort to become a millionaire.

..yeah I agree, the whole thing of the fines..(apart from being the most non logical dumb thing of fining people who have little or no money..)...is it's just dismissing the homeless and people in poverty who need help as being an issue to address and to do something constructive and making it a 'problem to be tidied up'....yeah I'm sure that people could 'exploit' but it's not exactly what I would call 'easy money' either... and even if they do then it's still not to make that an excuse to dismiss and penalise people who genuinely need help....

[joeysteele]

Why must you be homeless in order to beg? You can still be poor and living in squalor. How much money do you think these people are making sitting on the street? Stop making it sound like someone could turn this into a career. This sounds like an Ayn Rand propaganda piece.

There are people who use the money they get for drugs. You can take that into account, but don't make it that everyone sits on the street begging is trying to con people out of a pound in an effort to become a millionaire.

The post of this thread for me is this.