Can we stop pretending that Helen's comments...

[Jack_]

...were worse than her conduct on the night of Brian's departure? This is something that's really annoying me both on the show and on the forums.

Yes her comments were disgusting and completely unacceptable, but the worst thing about that night was the scene where she deliberately antagonised him (and admitted to doing so, 'yes I am going to antagonise you now) as he sat on the sofa in silence, visibly shaking and on the brink of tears, all while she had a smirk on her face and enjoyed the weakness he was displaying.

That is the real issue here, the comments she made following that are just a side show. That is what she should be made to apologise for, and what she's said she won't (how she isn't sorry she upset him, which is what this was). I feel like everyone's completely oblivious to the fact this happened, and it was beyond uncomfortable and totally out of order.

Helen should count herself extremely lucky that Big Brother isn't as popular as it once was and that barely anyone will have seen this, because if it were I can guarantee there'd have been security at her eviction, she'd be forced into making a public apology a la Jade and the race row, and she would be facing a barrage for the foreseeable future even more than she will be now. It's a real shame that she's going to be able to get away with this essentially cause no one will have seen it.

[JamesBond]

I'm over it.

[armand.kay]

ia tbh i really don't give a **** about the comments because i can imagine someone else saying it in an argument and me not caring because people say all sorts of things in arguments that they probably don't mean. what I hate about helen is not thats she's argumentative or aggressive its the tactics she uses to intimidate, goat and just torment people she's just horrid.

[ItWasJustBanter]

http://static.tellymix.co.uk/ts/800/450/www.tellymix.co.uk/files/2015/06/bb-brian-1.jpg

I call this one "Brian, 27, scared"

[zakman440]

http://static.tellymix.co.uk/ts/800/450/www.tellymix.co.uk/files/2015/06/bb-brian-1.jpg

I call this one "Brian, 27, scared"

...that was also on a separate occasion than what the OP was talking about.

[cassieparis]

:idc::idc:Tired

[ItWasJustBanter]

...that was also on a separate occasion than what the OP was talking about.

I know. He blew up a lot inside.


For an intimidated wilting violet that is.

[Jack_]

http://static.tellymix.co.uk/ts/800/450/www.tellymix.co.uk/files/2015/06/bb-brian-1.jpg

I call this one "Brian, 27, scared"

People keep making these points about how Brian reacted to her and was shouting at her. Yes, he did, I'm not denying that. But there was one scene where he sat on the sofa in silence, clearly shaking and about to cry and Helen goaded him, mocked him, said 'I am going to antagonise you now' and smirked and got enjoyment out of the fact he was showing weakness.

It doesn't matter whether he was aggressive before that, or aggressive after that. That one particular scene he did nothing and she continued to abuse him. That is bullying. If someone is saying nothing and you continue to abuse them, you are being a bully. It doesn't matter if they later respond or responded before, if someone isn't saying anything and you don't realise that enough is enough, then you are being a bully. Which she was.

A level argument where two people are going at it, which they both were in other scenes, absolutely fine. But one person going at someone who is sat in silence. Unacceptable, regardless of who it is.

[rionablue]

...were worse than her conduct on the night of Brian's departure? This is something that's really annoying me both on the show and on the forums.

Yes her comments were disgusting and completely unacceptable, but the worst thing about that night was the scene where she deliberately antagonised him (and admitted to doing so, 'yes I am going to antagonise you now) as he sat on the sofa in silence, visibly shaking and on the brink of tears, all while she had a smirk on her face and enjoyed the weakness he was displaying.

That is the real issue here, the comments she made following that are just a side show. That is what she should be made to apologise for, and what she's said she won't (how she isn't sorry she upset him, which is what this was). I feel like everyone's completely oblivious to the fact this happened, and it was beyond uncomfortable and totally out of order.

Helen should count herself extremely lucky that Big Brother isn't as popular as it once was and that barely anyone will have seen this, because if it were I can guarantee there'd have been security at her eviction, she'd be forced into making a public apology a la Jade and the race row, and she would be facing a barrage for the foreseeable future even more than she will be now. It's a real shame that she's going to be able to get away with this essentially cause no one will have seen it.

I totally agree. Great post Jack :wavey:

[Glenn.]

Good luck Jack. You'll be better off talking to a brick wall.

[ItWasJustBanter]

People keep making these points about how Brian reacted to her and was shouting at her. Yes, he did, I'm not denying that. But there was one scene where he sat on the sofa in silence, clearly shaking and about to cry and Helen goaded him, mocked him, said 'I am going to antagonise you now' and smirked and got enjoyment out of the fact he was showing weakness.

It doesn't matter whether he was aggressive before that, or aggressive after that. That one particular scene he did nothing and she continued to abuse him. That is bullying. If someone is saying nothing and you continue to abuse them, you are being a bully. It doesn't matter if they later respond or responded before, if someone isn't saying anything and you don't realise that enough is enough, then you are being a bully. Which she was.

A level argument where two people are going at it, which they both were in other scenes, absolutely fine. But one person going at someone who is sat in silence. Unacceptable, regardless of who it is.

It's not a level argument when he's physically much stronger than her and roaring at the top of his voice. She mentally destroyed him using the tools she has in her locker. I'm not saying that's right but she argued to her strengths, he argued to his and she won.

I hope he doesn't charge her too much for the space she's renting in his head. He will be haunted by her for a long time.

[Amy Jade]

Jack, you could post a picture of her kicking a kitten in the face and it'd be the kittens fault for having a face.

[Glenn.]

It's not a level argument when he's physically much stronger than her and roaring at the top of his voice. She mentally destroyed him using the tools she has in her locker. I'm not saying that's right but she argued to her strengths, he argued to his and she won.

I hope he doesn't charge her too much for the space she's renting in his head. He will be haunted by her for a long time.

the delusion is real

[ItWasJustBanter]

Maybe she was kicking a stone and an attention seeking kitten ran in just as a photo was being taken and planted it's face directly in front of her foot.

[BB4fan]

Jack, you could post a picture of her kicking a kitten in the face and it'd be the kittens fault for having a face.

Same as Brian.
If it was Helen's kitten being kicked by Brain Bellend you'd still call her a vile bully.

The irony.

[ItWasJustBanter]

the delusion is real
If you've a point to make then make it.

Otherwise just leave like you've threatened a few times tonight. I'm not going to stop you.

[ThriceShy]

Just look at the join dates, people.

That is all I am going to say.

[Glenn.]

If you've a point to make then make it.

Otherwise just leave like you've threatened a few times tonight. I'm not going to stop you.

My point was quite clear was it not?

[Jack_]

It's not a level argument when he's physically much stronger than her and roaring at the top of his voice.

Well for a start this is actually quite sexist suggesting that a man can't argue with a woman just because he's stronger than her. Pathetic.

And it was not a level argument when he was sat on the sofa in silence while she went at him. What part of that do you fail to understand?

I hope he doesn't charge her too much for the space she's renting in his head. He will be haunted by her for a long time.

This is actually a disgusting remark to make, as if it's some achievement that yes he will be scarred by her bullying. How ****ing disgusting. Seriously. ****ing vile.

[Jack_]

I can't actually believe someone's just said that. I'm ****ing disgusted.

[MB.]

Can we just end on-season now please

[Glenn.]

Can we just end on-season now please

here for it :clap1:

[Stankleberry]

When a man charges at a women as if he wants to fight her during an argument, that man deserves to be put in his place. He is insane, and she was right to say what she did. I hope he learns to control his emotions better, it's amazing that he's not in prison.

[ItWasJustBanter]

Well for a start this is actually quite sexist suggesting that a man can't argue with a woman just because he's stronger than her. Pathetic.

And it was not a level argument when he was sat on the sofa in silence while she went at him. What part of that do you fail to understand?



This is actually a disgusting remark to make, as if it's some achievement that yes he will be scarred by her bullying. How ****ing disgusting. Seriously. ****ing vile.

Don't bring the sex card into it I never suggested that. Don't read what I wrote, digest it and then **** it out and present it back to me like that's what I said.

All the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put Belo together again.

[Glenn.]

When a man charges at a women as if he wants to fight her during an argument, that man deserves to be put in his place. He is insane, and she was right to say what she did. I hope he learns to control his emotions better, it's amazing that he's not in prison.

nothing more needs to be said. All assumptions to suit your agenda.

[Jack_]

Don't bring the sex card into it I never suggested that. Don't read what I wrote, digest it and then **** it out and present it back to me like that's what I said.

You insinuated that because he is physically stronger than her (which is usually the case because men are stronger than women) it was not a level argument and shouldn't have taken place, which is effectively saying men are not allowed to argue with women. You know exactly what you were implying.

All the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put Belo together again.

Wow. Just wow. I sincerely hope you or a member of your family never experiences bullying, because maybe then you'll realise it's not a joking matter. Until then, get some ****ing decorum.

[Jack_]

Can we just end on-season now please

It's usually vitriolic enough to be miserable year after year, but I have been honestly so appalled over the last few days at the reactions to this incident. I'm ashamed to be a part of a fan base of a programme that includes people who think such behaviour is justifiable. This show is the pits.

[Jase.]

All the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put Belo together again.

http://i.imgur.com/mvyBicl.gif

You try waaaay too hard.

[ItWasJustBanter]

You insinuated that because he is physically stronger than her (which is usually the case because men are stronger than women) it was not a level argument and shouldn't have taken place, which is effectively saying men are not allowed to argue with women. You know exactly what you were implying.



Wow. Just wow. I sincerely hope you or a member of your family never experiences bullying, because maybe then you'll realise it's not a joking matter. Until then, get some ****ing decorum.

I am specifically referring to this argument, not every argument from time immemorial between man and woman. He was physically intimidating during those rows. I would have been intimidated myself by him. His eyes were wild, he was spitting when shouting, he was not collected. He used this form of argument tactic against Helen and it didn't work.

If any of my family do get bullied, I'll make sure they;ll always have a wall to jump over at my house.

[ItWasJustBanter]

http://i.imgur.com/mvyBicl.gif

You try waaaay too hard.

Thanks mate.

[Glenn.]

Brian was sat silently on the sofa when Helen was deliberately antagonizing him.

[Vicky.]

Honestly, I think helens comments were the only bad thing she did during that whole thing :shrug:

It is not as uncommon as some seem to believe purposely riling someone who is clearly getting angrier by the second. You see it as him on the verge of tears..I saw it as him ****ing RAGING.

[Jack_]

I am specifically referring to this argument, not every argument from time immemorial between man and woman. He was physically intimidating during those rows. I would have been intimidated myself by him. His eyes were wild, he was spitting when shouting, he was not collected. He used this form of argument tactic against Helen and it didn't work.

And once again, in the scene when he wasn't doing that and sat in silence, she went at him and didn't stop. That is bullying. I am right and you are wrong.

If any of my family do get bullied, I'll make sure they;ll always have a wall to jump over at my house.

Let's hope they and you do

[Amy Jade]

It's usually vitriolic enough to be miserable year after year, but I have been honestly so appalled over the last few days at the reactions to this incident. I'm ashamed to be a part of a fan base of a programme that includes people who think such behaviour is justifiable. This show is the pits.

I agree

Seeing people enjoy Helen's treatment of Brian has been deeply disturbing. I've no issue with people having different opinions but to actually enjoy a grown man welling up being called really horrific names and watch another person goade him and thoroughly enjoying ever moment of torment is odd to me.

[Jack_]

Honestly, I think helens comments were the only bad thing she did during that whole thing :shrug:

It is not as uncommon as some seem to believe purposely riling someone who is clearly getting angrier by the second. You see it as him on the verge of tears..I saw it as him ****ing RAGING.

Even if his shaking was anger (mixed in with fear I believe, personally), it is still bullying to continue to goad someone when they are sat there doing nothing. Tears, fear or anger, if someone is doing nothing back to you and you continue to go at them, mocking them, smirking, you are being a bully.

You know I don't use that word lightly and have defended all accusations of bullying against Helen before, but that is out and out bullying.

[Jase.]

Thanks mate.

http://www.abload.de/img/britney-eye-rollfp2o.gif

Trust me mate, it wasn't a compliment.

[ItWasJustBanter]

Arguments aren't linear. They don't start and stop and are forgotten about. He was nit picking at her all week, making up stuff that Marc had supposedly done (he didn't vote out Jade) and he was aggressive towards her.

She schooled him. She completely broke him down bit by bit and fed him to himself. She was well within her rights to too because he's an aggressive, attention seeker in dire need of anger management. How he has come out of this unscathed is beyond me.

[ItWasJustBanter]

http://www.abload.de/img/britney-eye-rollfp2o.gif

Trust me mate, it wasn't a compliment.

I barely know you mate. We're going to have to get to know each other a little better before a trust is formed. It's the building block of any relationship. Drop me a PM there and we'll get the ball rolling.

[Glenn.]

Arguments aren't linear. They don't start and stop and are forgotten about. He was nit picking at her all week, making up stuff that Marc had supposedly done (he didn't vote out Jade) and he was aggressive towards her.

She schooled him. She completely broke him down bit by bit and fed him to himself. She was well within her rights to too because he's an aggressive, attention seeker in dire need of anger management. How he has come out of this unscathed is beyond me.

:umm2:

[Amy Jade]

Honestly, I think helens comments were the only bad thing she did during that whole thing :shrug:

It is not as uncommon as some seem to believe purposely riling someone who is clearly getting angrier by the second. You see it as him on the verge of tears..I saw it as him ****ing RAGING.

Helen saw he was angry and I don't blame him, he was being called horrific things.

She continued to try abd push him further abd tip him over the edge.

She then claims she was intimidated by him. I don't believe her, had she really been intimidated I doubt she would keep prodding.

[Jack_]

I agree

Seeing people enjoy Helen's treatment of Brian has been deeply disturbing. I've no issue with people having different opinions but to actually enjoy a grown man welling up being called really horrific names and watch another person goade him and thoroughly enjoying ever moment of torment is odd to me.

Exactly. I could understand how people find and found Helen entertaining in all other instances, last year and this year. Hell, I could even have understood people finding that argument entertaining and acceptable had this particular scene not happened and she had just called him a murderer and a rapist, but to think that someone sitting there being goaded and belittled deliberately (as she admitted to) by someone who was getting enjoyment out of it is entertaining and/or acceptable is to me absolutely abhorrent. Something so uncomfortable and saddening is not justifiable in any way shape or form, and the fact that some people think it is is just disturbing.

[Macie Lightfoot]

why are people even engaging in this tbh? Like, Helen's behavior over both the course of this series and last series (and I'll throw in Marc's behavior too tbh; they really are two sides of the same coin) speaks for itself, and the few people who do like Helen will continue to do mental gymnastics to make it seem like she's permanently the victim who has done no wrong and how dare anyone do her wrong.

[ItWasJustBanter]

Exactly. I could understand how people find and found Helen entertaining in all other instances, last year and this year. Hell, I could even have understood people finding that argument entertaining and acceptable had this particular scene not happened and she had just called him a murderer and a rapist, but to think that someone sitting there being goaded and belittled deliberately (as she admitted to) by someone who was getting enjoyment out of it is entertaining and/or acceptable is to me absolutely abhorrent. Something so uncomfortable and saddening is not justifiable in any way shape or form, and the fact that some people think it is is just disturbing.

To be quite honest I was egging her on. I think she showed a bit of weakness there.

[Jason.]

Can we just end on-season now please

This.

[Glenn.]

I'm screaming at the lengths people will defend Helen. I'm howling with laughter.

[iToby]

It's not a level argument when he's physically much stronger than her and roaring at the top of his voice. She mentally destroyed him using the tools she has in her locker. I'm not saying that's right but she argued to her strengths, he argued to his and she won.

I hope he doesn't charge her too much for the space she's renting in his head. He will be haunted by her for a long time.

She struck me as more of a squatter type

[ItWasJustBanter]

I'm screaming at the lengths people will defend Helen. I'm howling with laughter.

You should get that seen to.

[Jason.]

I'm screaming at the lengths people will defend Helen. I'm howling with laughter.

I'm screaming at why people are still talking about her.

Her and Nikki have gone. They're history.

Move on.

[Robodog]

I'm screaming at the lengths people will defend Helen. I'm howling with laughter.

Yes her saying that Brian looked like a rapist/murderer was an indefensible way to react to him shouting at her like that for the third time that week. No wonder people call her a villain!

She should not have sat there and said those words to him as he stood over her shouting; instead she should have followed Brian's example and acted exactly like him.

She should have stood up over Brian, pointed and screamed in his face, called him a 'vile human being', an energy sucking demon ('dementer'), said he was 'pure evil' and told him that he 'makes his money from being a scumbag' etc etc.

Not only that, she should have got so worked up as she shouted at him that she had to be physically restrained by the other HMs - just like Brian did for the third time that week.

Maybe she should have thrown her shoes and stormed off?

If only she had said and done ALL those things instead, exactly as Brian did - THEN she wouldn't have been called a villain at all. She would have been called a Hero, just like Brian was.

Brian showed us all how to behave that night. That's how heroes behave.

It's HILARIOUS as you say mate that people defend Helen in the face of such heroic behaviour from Brian. Brian's insults and shouting and pointing and physical intimidation are SOOOO much better than anything Helen ever said in retalliation aren't they????

[JamesBond]

Arguments aren't linear. They don't start and stop and are forgotten about. He was nit picking at her all week, making up stuff that Marc had supposedly done (he didn't vote out Jade) and he was aggressive towards her.

She schooled him. She completely broke him down bit by bit and fed him to himself. She was well within her rights to too because he's an aggressive, attention seeker in dire need of anger management. How he has come out of this unscathed is beyond me.

100%

[Lampfan]

I'm screaming at why people are still talking about her.

Her and Nikki have gone. They're history.

Move on.

wasteman-oh!!

or something stupid

[Glenn.]

Yes her saying that Brian looked like a rapist/murderer was an indefensible way to react to him shouting at her like that for the third time that week. No wonder people call her a villain!

She should not have sat there and said those words to him as he stood over her shouting; instead she should have followed Brian's example and acted exactly like him.

She should have stood up over Brian, pointed and screamed in his face, called him a 'vile human being', an energy sucking demon ('dementer'), said he was 'pure evil' and told him that he 'makes his money from being a scumbag' etc etc.

Not only that, she should have got so worked up as she shouted at him that she had to be physically restrained by the other HMs - just like Brian did for the third time that week.

Maybe she should have thrown her shoes and stormed off?

If only she had said and done ALL those things instead, exactly as Brian did - THEN she wouldn't have been called a villain at all. She would have been called a Hero, just like Brian was.

Brian showed us all how to behave that night. That's how heroes behave.

It's HILARIOUS as you say mate that people defend Helen in the face of such heroic behaviour from Brian. Brian's insults and shouting and pointing and physical intimidation are SOOOO much better than anything Helen ever said in retalliation aren't they????

Sure boo :hee:

[jet]

why are people even engaging in this tbh? Like, Helen's behavior over both the course of this series and last series (and I'll throw in Marc's behavior too tbh; they really are two sides of the same coin) speaks for itself, and the few people who do like Helen will continue to do mental gymnastics to make it seem like she's permanently the victim who has done no wrong and how dare anyone do her wrong.

:clap1: Exactly. It's amazingly difficult to comprehend why anyone could love Helen, but a small minority do, so that's that. As you say, why even engage? Majority rules, so let the few who admire her have her and good luck to them, they are welcome to her! :bored:

[BB4fan]

http://i.imgur.com/mvyBicl.gif

You try waaaay too hard.

As dies the cow in your avi every time she throws a fake tantrum for camera time.:hehe:

[goldensunlight]

This thread is far more entertaining than the Helen/Brian argument itself. :joker:

[jaxie]

People keep making these points about how Brian reacted to her and was shouting at her. Yes, he did, I'm not denying that. But there was one scene where he sat on the sofa in silence, clearly shaking and about to cry and Helen goaded him, mocked him, said 'I am going to antagonise you now' and smirked and got enjoyment out of the fact he was showing weakness.

It doesn't matter whether he was aggressive before that, or aggressive after that. That one particular scene he did nothing and she continued to abuse him. That is bullying. If someone is saying nothing and you continue to abuse them, you are being a bully. It doesn't matter if they later respond or responded before, if someone isn't saying anything and you don't realise that enough is enough, then you are being a bully. Which she was.

A level argument where two people are going at it, which they both were in other scenes, absolutely fine. But one person going at someone who is sat in silence. Unacceptable, regardless of who it is.

Well said Jack.

[Ammi]

...one thing I find so bad with all of this, is that it's so difficult to define 'bullying' as being a clear cut thing so in BB context it's just 'perceptions' etc...but one of the first 'clear cut' type things is whether someone feels bullied...and Brian isn't the first person to have felt bullied by Helen...it's also that thing with someone like Brian/that slight vulnerable part of him...and yes he does have balance with other parts of his personality and hasn't always been the best himself in the house...but he does have a vulnerability about him as well..so I think that bullying is called more easily because of that..as it was with Jale as well...but much less so with Ashleigh...because she often looked so miserable and could 'b*tch with the best of them' etc..so basically everything Helen said to her was just 'justifiable' stuff..I find that personally extremely disturbing as a message to be given out....that a bullied person has to have a 'victim' type personality for bullying to be called or percieved....

[bots]

I have a big problem with the legends and the legends week for several reasons. Firstly, they were not normal housemates, they were each paid a fee to bring a particular type of behaviour to the house - manufactured drama.

Secondly, the producers manufactured the conflict between the legends for ratings. It had nothing to do with the standard housemates, they hardly showed them at all over the 2 weeks they were there (with the exception of golden boy Marc)

Thirdly, BB knew exactly how the whole thing was going to pan out if they continued to put the legends in positions of conflict, and gave them tasks to deliberately ignite the flames.

Fourthly, BB could have intervened at any time to calm things down, like they have done throughout this series. The 2 noteable occasions they didn't intervene, Aaron ended up booted out and Helen trashed - even though Brian had behaved equally badly throughout his time there.

If situations happen naturally and someone behaves terribly, then yes, they deserve condemnation, but not when it is specifically manufactured to happen. In that case, the only people that deserve any blame whatsoever are the producers

[Denver]

They both left the house now so I honestly don't know why more threads are being made on it

[jegmeister]

she would have appreciated that interview from Emma. Instead of being biased as some on here claimed, Emma was being honest with her about her behaviour. I should have thought Helen would appreciate that.

Unless, as with everything with Helen, it only ever applies one way.

[JeanP!]

Oh my god. She is out of the house. Get over it
Even her haters cannot stop talking about Helen <3

[JeanP!]

Yes her saying that Brian looked like a rapist/murderer was an indefensible way to react to him shouting at her like that for the third time that week. No wonder people call her a villain!

She should not have sat there and said those words to him as he stood over her shouting; instead she should have followed Brian's example and acted exactly like him.

She should have stood up over Brian, pointed and screamed in his face, called him a 'vile human being', an energy sucking demon ('dementer'), said he was 'pure evil' and told him that he 'makes his money from being a scumbag' etc etc.

Not only that, she should have got so worked up as she shouted at him that she had to be physically restrained by the other HMs - just like Brian did for the third time that week.

Maybe she should have thrown her shoes and stormed off?

If only she had said and done ALL those things instead, exactly as Brian did - THEN she wouldn't have been called a villain at all. She would have been called a Hero, just like Brian was.

Brian showed us all how to behave that night. That's how heroes behave.

It's HILARIOUS as you say mate that people defend Helen in the face of such heroic behaviour from Brian. Brian's insults and shouting and pointing and physical intimidation are SOOOO much better than anything Helen ever said in retalliation aren't they????

+287338383

[ebandit]

well? i've been so happy to talk about helen 'cos finally she got what she deserved

.......there is no defence for so much that helen says.......supporters can only deflect

Mark L

[Jamie89]

I agree that Helens behaviour was absolutely awful but I think the reason people are generally more worked up over her comments are for two reasons. Firstly (and it's sad to say but) her antagonistic behaviour is something we've come to expect from big brother contestants, and especially where Helen is concerned it's nothing new. So as terrible as it is, it isn't really shocking.
Secondly, when she made her comments, I think they struck an emotional cord with people. I for one found it upsetting that not only would someone say those things to another person but also that there were no real repercussions for it.
It's not really a question of which was worse, her behaviour or comments. It isn't a competition, they were both awful. It's just that her comments were more shocking and unexpected in the context of what we're used to seeing on the show and so of course, would provoke more of a reaction from us.

[smudgie]

I wonder if she will get her job back behind the bar on BBOTS now.
Surely that will be very telling, if she does, then BB obviously condones her behaviour.

[jegmeister]

One thing you always get from Helen is a string of straw man arguments. She hopes that by flinging out accusations of bullying against others, it will deflect people away from her own behaviour. Fortunately, this time BB producers had the balls to challenge her properly on it. And about time too.

If Helen is honest as she claims, she would admit her own behaviour. She might say that she too wasn't happy and explain why. That is not the point. She can't pretend she didn't call Brian a rapist and murderer. She did and should have apologised properly if she was genuinely being honest.

Goading and baiting is just as bad as shouting and finger-pointing. In fact, in my view it's worse because it's calculated. We all lose our temper at times. It's a natural thing when we feel strongly about someone. But in a civilised society there are social limits. And Helen crossed that line in her behaviour by her goading. Brian's behaviour was uncomfortable to watch at times and he is far from perfect but that is not the same. And quite frankly only someone who is biased and completely unreasonable would not see this.

The bottom line is this why did she say "you're playing into my hands" if she was scared of him as she claims. Surely, the logical approach would be to avoid him and have nothing to do with him. It is a lie - pure and simple. She is not scared of him. She hates him. And her goading and baiting shows this.

And it is exactly the same with Nikki - Helen lied again by saying that she is fake. One thing that Nikki is not is a fake. She is a huge diva, an annoying pain at times and an idiot but she is who she is and is exactly the same as she has always been for all these years.

Helen's claims simply aren't backed up by the facts in any of these incidents. If a large number of the public think you're a bully, then we have 2 options. Either an outbreak of collective bias and hysteria has broken out and people are all lying for the sake of it (and all think Helen is wonderful) or just possibly it's because it's because most people can see that her behaviour is unacceptable. Most reasonable people would see that it must be the second option that applies here.

[Griffin5779]

Helen saw he was angry and I don't blame him, he was being called horrific things.

She continued to try abd push him further abd tip him over the edge.

She then claims she was intimidated by him. I don't believe her, had she really been intimidated I doubt she would keep prodding.

he had been over the top angry for days before helen comment..and bitching calling helen and marc horrible things. I challenge you to produce examples of "horrible" thing helen said before her Murder/Rapist comment..and i'll easily out do them triple with Brian comments

[Stankleberry]

nothing more needs to be said. All assumptions to suit your agenda.

Charging at someone to the point where other people need to physically hold you back is insane, and if you're a large man doing it to a woman it's completely insane and would normally be deemed "unacceptable behavior", certainly. I guess some people get a free pass for some reason, huh. What could the reason be.

[Kazanne]

Nice to see Helen is still the topic of conversation on here,lol, Helen was a great housemate,she didn't bully anyone,she's not liked by some,Ah well,who really cares ? I enjoyed watching her,bit sick of people TRYING to force their opinions on people.

[jaxie]

It's usually vitriolic enough to be miserable year after year, but I have been honestly so appalled over the last few days at the reactions to this incident. I'm ashamed to be a part of a fan base of a programme that includes people who think such behaviour is justifiable. This show is the pits.

This is troubling me too. I am feeling like I have little in common with many on the forum, you think to yourself how can people support this sort of thing. In the past I've enjoyed the mix of people and the banter but increasingly I feel quite disillusioned and separate.

[jet]

This is troubling me too. I am feeling like I have little in common with many on the forum, you think to yourself how can people support this sort of thing. In the past I've enjoyed the mix of people and the banter but increasingly I feel quite disillusioned and separate.

I know just how you feel. I got to that point last year which is why I hardly bother to come here or post any more, and so many others have fled too. :sad:
The Helen enablers just wore them down, sadly.

[rionablue]

It's usually vitriolic enough to be miserable year after year, but I have been honestly so appalled over the last few days at the reactions to this incident. I'm ashamed to be a part of a fan base of a programme that includes people who think such behaviour is justifiable. This show is the pits.

I agree Jack but look at all the Helen love and Marc love, two vile disgusting human beings but a clearer example is that Hazel was in the WRONG in many peoples eyes when it came to the incident with Daley. And in many of the other sexual encounters if they happen the woman is for the most part blamed. I try to live a good life and I have bad language the same as many other people but the comments that have come out of Marc's and more importantly HELENS mouth have disgusted me to the core. I assumed most people would agree but they don't. We just have to let everyone have their say on these forums and stick to what we believe in ourselves. Love your posts by the way :wavey:

[ebandit]

............i'm sure that the majority too shake their head in disbelief

Mark L

[Kazanne]

Well I for one will support who I want and ignore the backhanded comments about how 'terrible' Helen supporters are ,I really don't care , people acting as though they have never done or said anything wrong is laughable , so you can hint at us all you want,I am not a sheep,I support Helen and proud to say so.

[jet]

I support Helen and proud to say so.

Her latest in a long line of brainless twitter insults must have you near to bursting with glee and pride. I'm happy for you that your support for Helen enhances your life.

[Kazanne]

Her latest in a long line of brainless twitter insults must have you near to bursting with glee and pride. I'm happy for you that your support for Helen enhances your life.

Thankyou:wavey:

[Tarryn]

She said some totally nasty & unacceptable things BUT she does not regret them.
There is nothing anyone can do to change this woman.
Even if she said sorry to Brian she would not mean it, so what's the point :shrug:
BB probably made it clear to her before she went in the house to stir it up.
Job done.
Do I like the woman ?, no but I don't have to concern myself with her anymore.
Is she pure evil ?, no. Just a bit of twat.
If Helen had gone in there & been Miss Nice everybody would have slated her saying she is fake.
I detest her behaviour but unfortunately the one thing that woman is not is fake.
I'm just glad she's gone.

[Jack_]

Oh my god. She is out of the house. Get over it
Even her haters cannot stop talking about Helen <3

This thread was made on a night when Helen was asked to account for her actions by the production team. Perhaps tell them that she's 'out of the house'

But please don't tell me what to do, thanks babe xo

Nice to see Helen is still the topic of conversation on here,lol, Helen was a great housemate,she didn't bully anyone,she's not liked by some,Ah well,who really cares ? I enjoyed watching her,bit sick of people TRYING to force their opinions on people.

Yes she did bully Brian in the scene I described in the OP, I'll wait for your defence of it if you think it wasn't bullying.

And it isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

Well I for one will support who I want and ignore the backhanded comments about how 'terrible' Helen supporters are ,I really don't care , people acting as though they have never done or said anything wrong is laughable , so you can hint at us all you want,I am not a sheep,I support Helen and proud to say so.

I've done things wrong in my life, but I have never bullied someone by mocking and goading them when they're in front of me shaking and saying nothing. Because I have a conscience and know that's clearly unacceptable. Perhaps you have though, who knows.

[jet]

I've done things wrong in my life, but I have never bullied someone by mocking and goading them when they're in front of me shaking and saying nothing. Because I have a conscience and know that's clearly unacceptable. Perhaps you have though, who knows.

:clap2: There are people in this world who not only find mocking, goading and insulting behaviour acceptable (and that awful woman is still at it on twitter) - they glory it it, relish it and enable it. They don't appear to appreciate kindness and decency (too boring!) and they don't seem to care about what is acceptable and what isn't as long as they get their kick - and unless it's directed at them personally - and most are probably too long in the tooth to change. :hehe:

[sungrass]

Its best not to talk about Helen anymore. There are good and evil people in the world and you wont change anyones mind- but it hurts the good people more to see people like Helen do their work.

TBH Im really tired of talking about it.

[sungrass]

yes jet exactly i hadnt even read your post

[Kazanne]

Blimey,heaven will be running out of those halos and harps pretty soon:angel: :laugh:

[Nancy.]

I'm sick of reading comments about poor Brian this and poor Brian that.
If you listen carefully, Kazanne, you'll hear the sound of violins in the distance. :joker:

[Kazanne]

I'm sick of reading comments about poor Brian this and poor Brian that.
If you listen carefully, Kazanne, you'll hear the sound of violins in the distance. :joker:

Yes,you'de think Helen was arguing with herself:joker::joker: Pass me my bow:hehe:

[Nancy.]

:laugh:

[Glenn.]

I do hope Brian is ok though.

[waterhog]

if anyone feels brian is a bad person - then you have not watched BB or no how to read people.

it is a shame helon was allowed to wind him up like this and it is a shame brian reacted like he did.

fact something had to be done and a line was crossed.

this will all keep the debate running and will onlt gain more support for brian and put helen in the public eye more and more which she is loving.

the thing to do now is to keep loving brian and forget about this melon and move on and if anyone employs her - well it says more about them then anything.

[the truth]

...were worse than her conduct on the night of Brian's departure? This is something that's really annoying me both on the show and on the forums.

Yes her comments were disgusting and completely unacceptable, but the worst thing about that night was the scene where she deliberately antagonised him (and admitted to doing so, 'yes I am going to antagonise you now) as he sat on the sofa in silence, visibly shaking and on the brink of tears, all while she had a smirk on her face and enjoyed the weakness he was displaying.

That is the real issue here, the comments she made following that are just a side show. That is what she should be made to apologise for, and what she's said she won't (how she isn't sorry she upset him, which is what this was). I feel like everyone's completely oblivious to the fact this happened, and it was beyond uncomfortable and totally out of order.

Helen should count herself extremely lucky that Big Brother isn't as popular as it once was and that barely anyone will have seen this, because if it were I can guarantee there'd have been security at her eviction, she'd be forced into making a public apology a la Jade and the race row, and she would be facing a barrage for the foreseeable future even more than she will be now. It's a real shame that she's going to be able to get away with this essentially cause no one will have seen it.

shes the subhuman spawn of satan, big brother are a disgrace for not ejecting her the moment those disgusting slanderous illegal words left her disgusting lips..if they hadn't let that trash in, the show would have been 100001 times better, wed have had infinitely more fun humour romance ...but this evil witch killed the show...she is gone now ...I don't ever want to see or hear her evil anywhere ever again, the second she comes on tv change the channel....the best way to deal with satan is total indifference, she should be ignored and shunned by all humanity and no doubt her evil will one day see her either imprisoned or locked away in an institution for everyones protection

ps nikki was fantastic

[Jack_]

No,that's not so, here we are again ,people going off on their own tangent again,thinking that they know what others are thinking and what they are like,I am just sick of people making out they are so perfect in life and have never done anything or said anything nasty,we have ALL done it,we all have a dark side,All those people name calling and pontificating about Helen and her wrong doings need to take a good look at themselves,we all know she was wrong to say what she did,but people in the same breath ignoring what Brian /Nikki and Ashleine did is laughable,nothing wrong with being a nice person but have the balls at least to admit no one is ALWAYS nice,some are acting on here like they need saint hood,we are all human good and bad.

Well from this I gather that you've missed the point of the thread completely. I wasn't talking about the comments Helen made (it says in the title), I was talking about her conduct in the scene where she went at Brian as he sat in silence and didn't retaliate. Her comments pale in comparison to that and that's the issue I'm raising, why are people concentrating on her comments when that wasn't even the main thing she did wrong?

I'm not denying Brian, Nikki or Aisleyne never said anything wrong to her, they all did, and Brian gave as good as he got in every other scene apart from this one instance, which is fine. But when he wasn't saying anything and she was goading him and getting enjoyment out of it, she was being a bully. It doesn't matter whether someone shouts at you before or after, if you're in a situation with someone in which they aren't retaliating and you carry on, you are being a bully.

[Kazanne]

Well from this I gather that you've missed the point of the thread completely. I wasn't talking about the comments Helen made (it says in the title), I was talking about her conduct in the scene where she went at Brian as he sat in silence and didn't retaliate. Her comments pale in comparison to that and that's the issue I'm raising, why are people concentrating on her comments when that wasn't even the main thing she did wrong?

I'm not denying Brian, Nikki or Aisleyne never said anything wrong to her, they all did, and Brian gave as good as he got in every other scene apart from this one instance, which is fine. But when he wasn't saying anything and she was goading him and getting enjoyment out of it, she was being a bully. It doesn't matter whether someone shouts at you before or after, if you're in a situation with someone in which they aren't retaliating and you carry on, you are being a bully.

And I can take that on board,but I still don't think it warrants the abuse she got it goes way too far at times,it's like she's killed someone,it's way over the top,but she's gone now time to move on I guess.

[Glenn.]

Well from this I gather that you've missed the point of the thread completely. I wasn't talking about the comments Helen made (it says in the title), I was talking about her conduct in the scene where she went at Brian as he sat in silence and didn't retaliate. Her comments pale in comparison to that and that's the issue I'm raising, why are people concentrating on her comments when that wasn't even the main thing she did wrong?

I'm not denying Brian, Nikki or Aisleyne never said anything wrong to her, they all did, and Brian gave as good as he got in every other scene apart from this one instance, which is fine. But when he wasn't saying anything and she was goading him and getting enjoyment out of it, she was being a bully. It doesn't matter whether someone shouts at you before or after, if you're in a situation with someone in which they aren't retaliating and you carry on, you are being a bully.

:clap1:

[Griffin5779]

if anyone feels brian is a bad person - then you have not watched BB or no how to read people.

it is a shame helon was allowed to wind him up like this and it is a shame brian reacted like he did.

fact something had to be done and a line was crossed.

this will all keep the debate running and will onlt gain more support for brian and put helen in the public eye more and more which she is loving.

the thing to do now is to keep loving brian and forget about this melon and move on and if anyone employs her - well it says more about them then anything.

i watch brian first time around..i had a positive feeling about him but he wasn't my favorite...

i watched him the last 2 weeks..he was bitchy, aggressive, nasty and seemed to have a problem determining what reality was..jumping all over macr for nominating jade when it was actually his good friend nicki...

the man was prick....and anyone who explains it away by blaming it all on helen isn't someone i would trust to "read people"

[Kazanne]

i watch brian first time around..i had a positive feeling about him but he wasn't my favorite...

i watched him the last 2 weeks..he was bitchy, aggressive, nasty and seemed to have a problem determining what reality was..jumping all over macr for nominating jade when it was actually his good friend nicki...

the man was prick....and anyone who explains it away by blaming it all on helen isn't someone i would trust to "read people"

:clap1:

[LukeB]

Well from this I gather that you've missed the point of the thread completely. I wasn't talking about the comments Helen made (it says in the title), I was talking about her conduct in the scene where she went at Brian as he sat in silence and didn't retaliate. Her comments pale in comparison to that and that's the issue I'm raising, why are people concentrating on her comments when that wasn't even the main thing she did wrong?

I'm not denying Brian, Nikki or Aisleyne never said anything wrong to her, they all did, and Brian gave as good as he got in every other scene apart from this one instance, which is fine. But when he wasn't saying anything and she was goading him and getting enjoyment out of it, she was being a bully. It doesn't matter whether someone shouts at you before or after, if you're in a situation with someone in which they aren't retaliating and you carry on, you are being a bully.

:clap1:

[mr rochester]

Jack, you could post a picture of her kicking a kitten in the face and it'd be the kittens fault for having a face.

BEST QUOTE EVER!!!




…and completely true.

[Ashley.]

They both left the house now so I honestly don't know why more threads are being made on it

Bullying is a problem in our society. Why ignore it?

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Well I for one will support who I want and ignore the backhanded comments about how 'terrible' Helen supporters are ,I really don't care , people acting as though they have never done or said anything wrong is laughable , so you can hint at us all you want,I am not a sheep,I support Helen and proud to say so.

:clap1: I think some people on here are very quick to forget the appalling behaviour of the other legends over the last few weeks. Brian having to be held back by other housemates, standing over Helen and shouting pointing in her face. Not to mention Aisleyne and Nikki giggling in the Diary Room while Helen herself was in tears in the living area are a few examples that spring to mind. All of them acted in unacceptable ways, but I don't see anyone calling Brian, Nikki or Aisleyne bullies.

[Creggle]

I really don't think Brian was 'about to cry', afterwards he got upset but at the time he looked like he wanted to beat the sheet out of Helen, not that I can blame him but he certainly didn't react like a victim. He's got a dark, uncontrollable anger in him that'll come out at some point. He's a nice guy, but it's there. God help whoever triggers it, he was pretty scary to look at during.

[Glenn.]

Can we stop with the Brian would have punched her crap please.

Literally the only reason that has come to light is because satan implied it.

[Creggle]

Nothing to do with that Helen said, it's the first thing I thought before she even commented on his face, he looked like he was about to fight someone.

[chuff me dizzy]

Helen was being attacked by an aggressive 6" 4" man,she had every right to attack him back

[Jack_]

Helen was being attacked by an aggressive 6" 4" man,she had every right to attack him back

Yes she did, and in every instance where they were both arguing everything was fine and above board. But if someone isn't retaliating and you continue to goad them and shout at them - as she did in the scene I have described - whether it's in real life or in the Big Brother house, you are being a bully.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes she did, and in every instance where they were both arguing everything was fine and above board. But if someone isn't retaliating and you continue to goad them and shout at them - as she did in the scene I have described - whether it's in real life or in the Big Brother house, you are being a bully.

Like when Belo called her pond scum ?

[LukeB]

Like when Belo called her pond scum ?

That comment may not have been a nice comment, but Helen's comment was worse even and way out of order.

[Jack_]

Like when Belo called her pond scum ?

He called her pond scum after the scene I described in the OP. After. AFTER.

There were separate scenes to this argument, why do I keep having to explain this? The ones where they were both shouting at each other, fine, and yes Brian said things he shouldn't have, but that does not excuse the scene where he sat on the sofa saying nothing and she continued to go at him, which is bullying.

What came before or after that is irrelevant, we are talking about this one particular scene.

[Glenn.]

It's hilarious s that people will defend her so blindly.

[chuff me dizzy]

He called her pond scum after the scene I described in the OP. After. AFTER.

There were separate scenes to this argument, why do I keep having to explain this? The ones where they were both shouting at each other, fine, and yes Brian said things he shouldn't have, but that does not excuse the scene where he sat on the sofa saying nothing and she continued to go at him, which is bullying.

What came before or after that is irrelevant, we are talking about this one particular scene.

One word to say to you ........................................






WRONG

[LukeB]

It's hilarious s that people will defend her so blindly.

they know Helen was in the wrong but too afraid to admit it :hee:

[Jack_]

One word to say to you ........................................






WRONG

Two threads now where you've not posted any evidence as to why you think I'm wrong.

Therefore, by the terms of a rational debate, you are wrong and I am right.

[Glenn.]

they know Helen was in the wrong but too afraid to admit it :hee:

No lies spotted

[joeysteele]

I go with Jack_ insofar as the whole scene without the wording was uncomfortable and once Helen saw she had him,(she did say he was playing right into her hands),for whatever had gone on with the pair of them in the house that was never shown,she really went for it.

She is, I have said it many times, in arguments both formidable and relentless.
She will not stop and if she has come to the point where she does not even like the person she is arguing with,then she really goes for it.

I said the whole scene, how it played out and the wording she used were unacceptable, wrong and deserved condemnation and the warning she did get.

I would have told her that to her face too had I been a housemate in there.

He may well have been wrong to break confidences in the house she had talked to him about,he was wrong to blame her for Jade going, Nikki shouted for Jade to be nominated too, however Brian was sucking up to Nikki on issues while blaming Helen for everything.
That argument came about and to the head it did, for lots of reasons between Helen and Brian, some reasons seen and others not shown us by BB too.

That is a fact, not an excuse for her actions in that argument because there are no excuses and as Jack_ says, it was totally wrong and he is completely in my view right.

In some ways, they both got what they likely wanted from that really uncomfortable thing to watch.
Helen got Brian to the point where he realised he would likely never get one over on her and she was able to bring him down.
Things like that are never nice or good to see against anyone.

However,from it, Brian too got what maybe he was wanting in a way too, he managed to let her show how overpowering and overbearing she could be, he also then was given his opportunity to leave with his head ,in his thinking, held higher than had he walked out from the diary room.
He really had wanted to go since Jade went out,this helped give him the chance to do so and lay all the blame on someone else.

So in that sense, she also played into his hands too.

She never said he was a rapist/murderer,she said when angry he looked like one.
I still would not and could not defend even that terminology but he really should have walked away,gone and talked to others he said he was comfortable with and left her fuming and going on and on.

Hindsight however is a wonderful thing,as I say I go with Jack_ almost all the way but part of me, while 100% condemning Helen for the wording and goading, do feel he also in part used this to give more credibility to his absconding from the house too.

He had been difficult in the bunker and house most of his time there, except while in connection with Jade after the 2nd day in the house, he was at odds with Nikki in the bunker, with Helen in the house and then with Marc too and then back to Helen again after Jade went.

Helen was much the same as she was in her series last year, both Brian and Nikki knew that and both would have been wiser to either ignore her other than for BB tasks and missions,rather than really engage with her.
Likewise she should have done the same with them to avoid as much conflict as was possible to do so.

It is not at all as if all 3 of these people.,ad no idea what all of them were really like before they returned to the BB experience.
Anyway the long and short of what I am saying here is that I do think Jack_ has made valid observations and points as to this unfortunate event in this series of BB.

[Griffin5779]

Two threads now where you've not posted any evidence as to why you think I'm wrong.

Therefore, by the terms of a rational debate, you are wrong and I am right.

Evidence as why your opinion is wrong? do you have evidence it is right? various people have expressed different opinions..and backed them up..including myself..just because you don't agree with them does not make you right...

I don't think you have an idea what rational is..or a debate either

[Nancy.]

i watch brian first time around..i had a positive feeling about him but he wasn't my favorite...

i watched him the last 2 weeks..he was bitchy, aggressive, nasty and seemed to have a problem determining what reality was..jumping all over macr for nominating jade when it was actually his good friend nicki...

the man was prick....and anyone who explains it away by blaming it all on helen isn't someone i would trust to "read people"

Agreed.

[Babschap]

It's hilarious s that people will defend her so blindly.


I totally agree, I think it's been awful watching her bully and manipulate people. Very glad she has gone but it must have ruined the original HMs experience.

[Angelika]

Just look at the join dates, people.

That is all I am going to say.

:clap1: