The Sun's footage of the Queen performing a 'Nazi salute'

[Shaun]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/438E/production/_84349271_84349268.jpg

Buckingham Palace has said it is disappointed that footage from 1933 showing the Queen performing a Nazi salute has been released.

The Sun has published the film which shows the Queen aged about seven, with her mother, sister and uncle.

The palace said it was "disappointing that film, shot eight decades ago... has been obtained and exploited."

The newspaper has refused to say how it got the footage but said it was an "important and interesting story".

The black and white footage, which lasts about 17 seconds, shows the Queen playing with a dog on the lawn in the gardens of Balmoral, the Sun says.

The Queen Mother then raises her arm in the style of a Nazi salute and, after glancing towards her mother, the Queen mimics the gesture. Prince Edward, the future Edward VIII, is also seen raising his arm.

The footage is thought to have been shot in 1933 or 1934, when Hitler was rising to prominence as Fuhrer in Germany but the circumstances in which it was shot are unclear.

A Palace source said: "Most people will see these pictures in their proper context and time. This is a family playing and momentarily referencing a gesture many would have seen from contemporary news reels.

"No one at that time had any sense how it would evolve. To imply anything else is misleading and dishonest."

The source added: "The Queen and her family's service and dedication to the welfare of this nation during the war, and the 63 years the Queen has spent building relations between nations and peoples speaks for itself."

BBC Royal correspondent Sarah Campbell said Buckingham Palace was not denying the footage was authentic but that there were "questions over how this video has been released".

Dickie Arbiter, a former Buckingham Palace press secretary said the Palace would be investigating.

"They'll be wondering whether it was in fact something that was held in the Royal Archives at Windsor, or whether it was being held by the, Duke of Windsor's estate," he said.

"And if it was the Duke of Windsor's estate, then somebody has clearly taken it from the estate and here it is, 82 years later.

"But a lot of questions have got to be asked and a lot of questions got to be answered."

Sun managing editor Stig Abell said he did not accept Buckingham Palace's accusation that the footage has been "exploited".

He said the newspaper had decided to publish the story because it was of great public importance and the involvement of Prince Edward gave it "historical significance".

The then Prince of Wales faced numerous accusations of being a Nazi sympathiser and was photographed meeting Hitler in Munich in October 1937.

Mr Abell said: "We are not using it to suggest any impropriety on behalf of them. But it is an important and interesting issue, the extent to which the British aristocracy - notably Edward VIII, in this case - in the 1930s, were sympathetic towards fascism.

"That must be a matter of national and public interest to discuss. And I think this video and this footage animates that very clearly."

The Queen was 13 when World War Two broke out and she later served in the Women's Auxiliary Territorial Service.

In June she made her first state visit to Germany where she visited the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp and met some of the survivors and liberators.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33578174

What do you all make of this, then? :think:

[Mystic Mock]

Tbf she was only a kid then.

I'm more disgusted in Edward VIII and The Queen Mother tbh.

It really makes me angry when some people in this country attack us for our most greatest and most moral moment in history, our Royalty at the time shouldn't have been against us either the backward fools.

[Jack_]

Is it too much to hope that she's arrested like that man was the other day?

That and The Sun to be closed down for more invasions of privacy that are brushed off as ~investigative journalism~?

Having said that, they do have killer headlines :laugh2:

[arista]

Back in 1933
the Nazi Party was not fully understood, in England
So its just a bit bit of Fun.


[newspaper had decided to publish the story because it was of great public
importance and the involvement of Prince Edward gave it "historical significance".]

[Crimson Dynamo]

i would imagine every kid in the 30s did this and most adults as a bit of a lark

[Toy Soldier]

To play devil's avocado, this was taken before the holocaust so they didn't actually know just how extreme the Nazis were going to get.

On the other hand - let me just put it this way - had Germany conquered the UK and eventually the world, the Royals would have been just fine. Not saying they supported them or would have wanted it, just that they would have fared OK.

[arista]

To play devil's avocado, this was taken before the holocaust so they didn't actually know just how extreme the Nazis were going to get.

On the other hand - let me just put it this way - had Germany conquered the UK and eventually the world, the Royals would have been just fine. Not saying they supported them or would have wanted it, just that they would have fared OK.


Yes The Main point to this TS

[Ninastar]

its 1933 and she was like 5

the sun are just trying to make up stories and people will make all kinds of ridiculous theories to go with it

[Toy Soldier]

its 1933 and she was like 5

the sun are just trying to make up stories and people will make all kinds of ridiculous theories to go with it
Make up theories? No one needs to make up theories! Seriously, has history been THIS effectively whitewashed? The Windsors had very real and very well documented support - including financial support - for the German Nazi party in the late 1920's and early 1930's, and in fact right up until the point that it became clear that Hitler's goals included expanding West across Europe and eventually to the US. Price Philip had family members who were high ranking Nazi officers throughout the war, ffs.

[joeysteele]

Next time the Sun plays the crawling patriotic Royal card,I hope people remember this.

This was in 1933 even before Hitler was elected to power and probably no one expected in any way the real horrors that even could just possibly come from that madman who was obsessed with dominance and power.

Had it been a later film then fair enough.
Just the Sun being the rotten stinking rag it has always been and how nice it would be one day be to read the headlines in other press that this stench as to any form of decent journalism had been put out of business.

[arista]

"Sun being the"

No Joey
I noticed more younger women Buying the Sun this morning.



Its Educational
Its a Fact
and
Its on FoxNewsHD , Iran News, CBS News , MSNBC News



Its Our Sun
Embrace It

[waterhog]

this is out of context with to much spin - but hey - its a free press ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its typical royal hating murdoch crap

what actual point do they want to make?

and to upset an 89 year old woman by dragging her dead mum is despicable

[Toy Soldier]

Next time the Sun plays the crawling patriotic Royal card,I hope people remember this.

This was in 1933 even before Hitler was elected to power and probably no one expected in any way the real horrors that even could just possibly come from that madman who was obsessed with dominance and power.

Had it been a later film then fair enough.
Just the Sun being the rotten stinking rag it has always been and how nice it would be one day be to read the headlines in other press that this stench as to any form of decent journalism had been put out of business.
I of course agree with most of this Joey, the Sun's hypocrisy is staggering and I have no doubt they will be drooling over poor old Kate Middleton again within a matter of weeks, however, I would genuinely recommend looking into the history of the Windsors and Philip's extended family in regards to Hitler and the Nazi party.

Go in unbiased and look for the things that royal historians have gone to HUGE lengths to ensure are largely forgotten. They did not really turn their back on Hitler until his plans to move Westwards became evident, they were rubbing shoulders with him right up until that point - and his ideals of genetic supremacy were evident long before that point.

In Philips side the links are much deeper.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/01/article-3165923-2AA3061200000578-10_964x436.jpg

Its Great History
when Hitler was viewed as a Top Leader
before he started Gassing Jews in shower rooms
they thought it was a clean out zone
then Evil Gas Killed them.
His Master Plan


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/00/0BFD0B7800000578-3165923-image-a-15_1437174412359.jpg
Happy Early days for Evil Hitler

[Toy Soldier]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/01/article-3165923-2AA3061200000578-10_964x436.jpg

Its Great History
when Hitler was viewed as a Top Leader
before he started Gassing Jews in shower rooms
they thought it was a clean out zone
then Evil Gas Killed them.
His Master Plan


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/00/0BFD0B7800000578-3165923-image-a-15_1437174412359.jpg
Happy Early days for Evil Hitler
You know, if he hadn't been an increasingly unstable genetic supremacist and gotten himself sidetracked with all of that genocide business, I seriously doubt the allied forces would have stopped Germany.

[arista]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01471/horne_1471107c.jpg


No TS
you can not trust Nazi Written Statements

[Ninastar]

plot twist, the queen is actually hitler and she was also behind 9/11

[Crimson Dynamo]

You also have to understand how people consumed news media back then. days late, inaccurate and biased

no tv, no internet. just radio and papers

[Crimson Dynamo]

You also have to understand how people consumed news media back then. days late, inaccurate and biased

no tv, no internet. just radio and papers

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/00/002D124300000258-3165923-image-a-18_1437176677692.jpg
[The former King of England,
Edward VIII with American Wallis Simpson,
for whom he abdicated in 1936,
less than a year after becoming King]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3165923/Pictured-Queen-taught-NAZI-SALUTE-Edward-VIII-secret-1933-film-Balmoral.html#ixzz3gEyKXjwq

[Jøsh]

"Sun being the"

No Joey
I noticed more younger women Buying the Sun this morning.



Its Educational
Its a Fact
and
Its on FoxNewsHD , Iran News, CBS News , MSNBC News



Its Our Sun
Embrace It


We are not all American,we can't shop at AsdaWalmart
We dont have HD.

[Pete.]

The Queen was just innocently copying her mother and uncle because she would know no different at what 6? As for the older members of the royal family who should have known better...

[Pete.]

I hope this topples the Sun too because they're talk about how they obtained this footage/if they doctored it or not

[arista]

We are not all American,we can't shop at AsdaWalmart
We dont have HD.



Thats OK Josh


I am Not American
but I watch their Live news

[arista]

I hope this topples the Sun too because they're talk about how they obtained this footage/if they doctored it or not


Its all Legal
other Royal members had copys


The Sun is selling extra papers today

[Iceman]

I hope this topples the Sun too because they're talk about how they obtained this footage/if they doctored it or not

What's this talk of doctoring it??

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/00/2AA31DE200000578-3165923-image-a-16_1437175439895.jpg


The England football team in 1938 !

[bots]

Context is everything. Also, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They are trying to judge a 7 year old girl in 1933 by 2015 standards

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/00/2AA31DE200000578-3165923-image-a-16_1437175439895.jpg


The England football team in 1938 !



Yes Salute the Leader
also in the 1936 Berlin Olympics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics
A great time when Black American Jesse Owens
beat the Nazi Tough runners
Upsetting Hitler

[arista]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Jesse_Owens3.jpg/800px-Jesse_Owens3.jpg
Better than Super Tough Nazi Runners

Utter Bliss

[arista]

They are trying to judge a 7 year old girl in 1933 by 2015 standards


Its like Monty Python of that early Nazi time.


Ref: SkyNewsHD

[Pete.]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Jesse_Owens3.jpg/800px-Jesse_Owens3.jpg
Better than Super Tough Nazi Runners

Utter Bliss
<3

[Tom4784]

It's a non-story.

It was a few years before WW2 happened and, at that point of time, they were just referencing a gesture from a foreign government. It's silly and misleading to drag it up now but then again I'd never expect competent journalism or common sense from The Sun.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/12/2AA5C43800000578-3166201-It_gets_worse_Prince_George_pictured_waving_to_the _crowd_during_-a-76_1437220713734.jpg

:omgno:

THEY ARE ALL AT IT NOW

[joeysteele]

"Sun being the"

No Joey
I noticed more younger women Buying the Sun this morning.



Its Educational
Its a Fact
and
Its on FoxNewsHD , Iran News, CBS News , MSNBC News



Its Our Sun
Embrace It

I know of at least 12 people who buy the Sun on a Saturday arista, who take it home, take out the TV mag section and the Sun is then left unread and goes into the re-cycling bin.
The re-cycling bin,in fact,being the only decent thing about it too.

It will never be my Sun, I wouldn't even touch it, let alone buy it or read it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/sooty/images/f/f1/SootyandSweeppromo.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131124145031


I can see Sweep but Sooty as well ??

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01376/Alan_Shearer_celeb_1376255i.jpg

[Ninastar]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/12/2AA5C43800000578-3166201-It_gets_worse_Prince_George_pictured_waving_to_the _crowd_during_-a-76_1437220713734.jpg

:omgno:

THEY ARE ALL AT IT NOW

now we know who is leading isis!!!!!!!

[MTVN]

If a country has a royal family imposed on them then it is of historical interest that a King of known Nazi sympathies liked to encourage his daughters to give Nazi salutes on film as part of a great afternoon of family frolicking. Yes no one could have foreseen the Holocaust, yes people abided by diplomatic etiquette in giving the salute sometimes but people were aware of Nazism's nature and the dangers of it

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/19/12/2AAB434900000578-0-image-a-64_1437307054471.jpg
Life Goes On Today

The Queen Driving
Today with her Armed Bodyguard

[waterhog]

hi everyone. now BB has ended i am going to try and get back into the news. i really liked this story as i do anything to do with the queen. hope you can all spot every song in it.

shame on the sun paper (Nazi salute) - lets boycott and show our Queen will rock you 19.07.15


welcome to the reader
i am going to give you a hidden discovery
with the Queen i am a feeder
my worship and dedication is "mother lovely".
footage has now appeared with grammar
it is causing the palace division wall
my aim is for the sun to loose glamour
i prey they are a "hammer to a fall".
at her age of the video
it was no "these days of our lives"
the "Nazi salute" was as popular as "Eldardo"
like to the BBC to the sun we must show knives.
"don't try so hard"
"ride the wild wind"
i am showing "the sun" my red card
like "father to a son" they have sinned.
how dare our "monarchy" you shame
its to big for "the sun" to handle
so let me "play the game"
and show everyone this "scandal".
before the rise of "Hitler"
this salute was no "seven seas of rhye"
is the sun saying Elisabeth done worse then garry glitter
i have to ask why.
come on people and unite
lets to the "Queen" set a tone
"the sun" is "mr.bad guy" and no delight
that's why they must be "living on my own".
there is no "in my defence"
don't make out "the great pretender"
my love for "Elizabeth" is immense
i will always be a "Queen" defender.
i am calling for disgrace
this "is this the world we created"
the paper machine is not winning this "bicycle race"
"the sun" has now been infiltrated.
please show your appreciation
Elizabeth and Queen are "Barcelona"
down in a "flash" is this papers destination
"Queen" must over "the sun" be the owner.

( i have tried to get my poem to the sun - the queen and the best ever music group in the world. i just wondered will anyone boycott this paper or are you just in the mood to listen to some Queen and boycott awful poetry ? as this is my first poem on the news since BB has ended i hope i have not jumped in at the deep end and made myself look silly but i am prepared for some harsh critics. if you wanted to read about the story i am talking about you can here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33578174 or if you wanted to listen to music with taste i will send you in the right direction here http://www.queenonline.com/ can not stop - off to the palace to chuck my poem over mages fence - she better find it ! )

[arista]

No Hog
Gary Glitter is Far worse
than our Queen

[JoshBB]

Queen was young, probably had no idea what she was doing. Her mum though... I mean, the Nazis were still very outspokenly racist pre-1933 and even though nobody knew what they were going to do, they still had their Sturmabteilung who were very violent.

[Livia]

This was years before the war. Hitler had only just come to power, we were still trying to make peace with the Germans right up to September '39 when they invaded Poland and it finally kicked off. What a massive and ridiculous fuss over a picture that meant nothing then and means nothing now.

[Toy Soldier]

Queen was young, probably had no idea what she was doing. Her mum though... I mean, the Nazis were still very outspokenly racist pre-1933 and even though nobody knew what they were going to do, they still had their Sturmabteilung who were very violent.
Correct Josh, the British royal family and several prominent British gentry members had very real and very demonstrable links to Hitler and various other elements of the Nazi party, long after their tendencies for violence and supremacy were known.

I find it mind-boggling that people are so desperate to rewrite this history. Well no actually, I know exactly why people want to, what I find mind-boggling is that people are so able to.

I guess there's a certain set "narrative" to the second world war that people just don't want to deviate from.

[arista]

Queen was young, probably had no idea what she was doing. Her mum though... I mean, the Nazis were still very outspokenly racist pre-1933 and even though nobody knew what they were going to do, they still had their Sturmabteilung who were very violent.


Yes she was to young, just Larking about.

But the Older ones there had a Good idea that Hitler
was going to change things.

[Livia]

Correct Josh, the British royal family and several prominent British gentry members had very real and very demonstrable links to Hitler and various other elements of the Nazi party, long after their tendencies for violence and supremacy were known.

I find it mind-boggling that people are so desperate to rewrite this history. Well no actually, I know exactly why people want to, what I find mind-boggling is that people are so able to.

I guess there's a certain set "narrative" to the second world war that people just don't want to deviate from.


To put this into perspective, this story centres on an eighty year old picture of a six year old girl. And frankly, I think the Queen Mother demonstrated during WW2 who's side she was on and the Queen herself served as a driver and mechanic in the ATS. The only people trying to rewrite history here work for a third-rate tabloid that's good only in an emergency if you should run out of toilet paper.

[Toy Soldier]

To put this into perspective, this story centres on an eighty year old picture of a six year old girl. And frankly, I think the Queen Mother demonstrated during WW2 who's side she was on and the Queen herself served as a driver and mechanic in the ATS. The only people trying to rewrite history here work for a third-rate tabloid that's good only in an emergency if you should run out of toilet paper.
So there are no links at all between the Royals / the British gentry and the German Nazi party at all. No hints of any sort of Nazi sympathising at all. Gotcha.

Is it easier to live in a world with a whitewashed version of history? I assume it must be, I don't understand why people are so keen to do it otherwise.

[Toy Soldier]

For the record, I obviously don't think the Queen herself is or was a Nazi or that at 8 years old she had any idea what she was doing. But that's not really the point.

[arista]

So there are no links at all between the Royals / the British gentry and the German Nazi party at all. No hints of any sort of Nazi sympathising at all. Gotcha.

Is it easier to live in a world with a whitewashed version of history? I assume it must be, I don't understand why people are so keen to do it otherwise.


Yes there is

"Prince Edward, the future Edward VIII"

Loved Hitler

[joeysteele]

To put this into perspective, this story centres on an eighty year old picture of a six year old girl. And frankly, I think the Queen Mother demonstrated during WW2 who's side she was on and the Queen herself served as a driver and mechanic in the ATS. The only people trying to rewrite history here work for a third-rate tabloid that's good only in an emergency if you should run out of toilet paper.



:joker: You are incredible,another great one liner.
I wouldn't even use it for that however. :joker:

[Toy Soldier]

Anyone who has ever actually tried using newspaper in an emergency knows that it is a grave error. Using a sock and binning it is preferrable. Or anything else that comes to hand. Newspaper is second only to the inner tube of the toilet roll when it comes to places you just should not go.

[GypsyGoth]

They're not nazis anymore, and that's what counts.

[arista]

Anyone who has ever actually tried using newspaper in an emergency knows that it is a grave error. Using a sock and binning it is preferrable. Or anything else that comes to hand. Newspaper is second only to the inner tube of the toilet roll when it comes to places you just should not go.


The Sun
is the biggest seller in the UK

[joeysteele]

The Sun
is the biggest seller in the UK

It is also the cheaper than the others,save the 'Star' and the 'I'.

[arista]

It is also the cheaper than the others,save the 'Star' and the 'I'.


For Sure

[waterhog]

its time for a some gentle music with no voice just instruments ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjEphmIqtjM

[Ninastar]

They're not nazis anymore, and that's what counts.

lmao

omg, ily :love:

[Livia]

So there are no links at all between the Royals / the British gentry and the German Nazi party at all. No hints of any sort of Nazi sympathising at all. Gotcha.

Is it easier to live in a world with a whitewashed version of history? I assume it must be, I don't understand why people are so keen to do it otherwise.

I never suggested anywhere in my post there were no links between some members of the royal family/British aristocracy so I'm not sure what it is you think you 'got' exactly. I am not an apologist for Nazi sympathisers as I think you probably know.

Why are you asking me if it's easier to live in a world with a whitewashed version of history? I commented solely on this issue, an eighty years old picture of a child that's being used by a questionable tabloid to sell their nasty rag.

[Z]

Khaleesi Elizabeth is of Germanic descent, it is known.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/20/00/article-3167558-2AAD9E8000000578-147_964x392.jpg
Celebration: Philip's sister Sophie
opposite Hitler at the 1935 wedding
of Goering (with gold braid) in scene
featured in Channel 4HD documentary

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167558/Now-Royals-face-TV-Nazi-exposure-Palace-considers-legal-action-Hitler-salute-photos-new-blow.html#ixzz3gO7pxPFN

[Toy Soldier]

Still flabbergasted that this is such "big news" for the general public. Most had absolutely no idea, did they. None of this is new information but Joe Public has been too busy swooning over royal marriages and cooing over royal babies to actually notice.

I'm sure Wills is hard at work as we speak trying to fill Kate up with another royal baby. It's a bit soon but needs must... It's like rock paper scissors and everyone knows that Royal Baby always beats Closet Nazi.

[bots]

i'm no royalist, but the queen demonstrated where her loyalties lie by her actions during the second world war. I am gobsmacked that people question her allegiance now.

There are many things that we can justifiably criticise the queeen and the current royal family for, but any Nazi sympathisers are a long time dead and gone. Are descendants now to be held to account for their predecessors actions? If so, we better all go look quickly in our closets.

[waterhog]

so many people have distorted views on all matters - including me on somethings and we are entitled to them but there is pure ignorance on this topic as proved by the guy that did ring in and mathew wright had to cut him off. shocking.

[Toy Soldier]

i'm no royalist, but the queen demonstrated where her loyalties lie by her actions during the second world war. I am gobsmacked that people question her allegiance now.

There are many things that we can justifiably criticise the queeen and the current royal family for, but any Nazi sympathisers are a long time dead and gone. Are descendants now to be held to account for their predecessors actions? If so, we better all go look quickly in our closets.
This is true, we should focus on the ones who are alive now.

So, William and Harry actually seem like decent guys so far. Anyone older than them is dodgy as ****. But we're supposed to pretend otherwise, because Britain.

[bots]

This is true, we should focus on the ones who are alive now.

So, William and Harry actually seem like decent guys so far. Anyone older than them is dodgy as ****. But we're supposed to pretend otherwise, because Britain.

I think William and Harry seem decent enough, but as you say, the rest are very dodgy, and if they have done anything that has crossed the line then they should be held accountable. I very much doubt the Queen has done anything wrong in that sense.

[Toy Soldier]

I think William and Harry seem decent enough, but as you say, the rest are very dodgy, and if they have done anything that has crossed the line then they should be held accountable. I very much doubt the Queen has done anything wrong in that sense.
The Queen herself, no, but I'm certain the things she knows about but would never breathe a word of would blow even my mind, and there's VERY little that I find shocking or even surprising.

[lostalex]

i think the only appropriate punishment is to have the hand that she used to salute, cut off in public and broadcast live.

[Denver]

The Queen for CBB?

[Livia]

Still flabbergasted that this is such "big news" for the general public. Most had absolutely no idea, did they. None of this is new information but Joe Public has been too busy swooning over royal marriages and cooing over royal babies to actually notice.

I'm sure Wills is hard at work as we speak trying to fill Kate up with another royal baby. It's a bit soon but needs must... It's like rock paper scissors and everyone knows that Royal Baby always beats Closet Nazi.

You have such a low view of Joe Public. Most of them know just as much about history and the royal family as you do, which may surprise you and I'm sure you'll argue against that.

And actually, Will is probably at work today, flying the air ambulance out of Cambridge, a job he started a couple of weeks ago following his discharge from the RAF.

Incidentally, who is the closet Nazi to which you refer?

[arista]

I am looking forward to the Ch4HD Royal Docu
30 - July -15

[Toy Soldier]

You have such a low view of Joe Public. Most of them know just as much about history and the royal family as you do, which may surprise you and I'm sure you'll argue against that.

You are correct, I do have an extremely low view of the vast majority of people. I have a low view of people just for supporting the simple idea that some people are "better by birth", which is of course what both Royalty and Naziism is about funnily enough.

I don't think it's an unfounded low view, personally. It's not even that I think I'm better than most, I just think there's a fairly obvious truth that human beings are absolutely awful creatures.

But yes, I am going to argue that you're incorrect, and that most of the general public don't know about - or don't believe (no doubt laughing much off as conspiracy theory) - the royal family's dirty underbelly.

At least I bloody well hope they don't know it and believe it and still wave their flags.

If you are right and they indeed do know it, and believe it, and yet they still support the royal family and consider them to be all cakes and tea and best of British pip pip pip... Then people are even worse than I thought.

[Toy Soldier]

Tl;dr I'd rather believe that people are just ignorant rather than that they willfully support something that is rancid to the very core.

[Z]

Still flabbergasted that this is such "big news" for the general public. Most had absolutely no idea, did they. None of this is new information but Joe Public has been too busy swooning over royal marriages and cooing over royal babies to actually notice.

I'm sure Wills is hard at work as we speak trying to fill Kate up with another royal baby. It's a bit soon but needs must... It's like rock paper scissors and everyone knows that Royal Baby always beats Closet Nazi.

That would be a great movie.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Didn't Harry sport a Nazi costume not long ago? It's in their blood. In their own private times they sing heil hitler.

[Livia]

Didn't Harry sport a Nazi costume not long ago? It's in their blood. In their own private times they sing heil hitler.

My husband wore a Nazi officers uniform to a party once, turns out it didn't make him a Nazi. And also, I have German blood but that doesn't make me a Nazi either, Nor make me sing "heil Hitler".

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

My husband wore a Nazi officers uniform to a party once, turns out it didn't make him a Nazi. And also, I have German blood but that doesn't make me a Nazi either, Nor make me sing "heil Hitler".

That shows difference in sense of humour and standpoint in individuals. I would never find any sort of humour in wearing a costume of someone that was a mass murderer. Halloween on not.

[Livia]

That shows difference in sense of humour and standpoint in individuals. I would never find any sort of humour in wearing a costume of someone that was a mass murderer. Halloween on not.

Well, as a Jewish woman, I saw it for what it was: not serious.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Well, as a Jewish woman, I saw it for what it was: not serious.

Well I am sure at the time it was for any holocaust survivor.


As a black woman I wouldn't wear a kkk outfit out of respect for those who went through it. But we differ I suppose.

[Niamh.]

As an Irish woman I wouldn't wear a Potato costume out of respect for Potato famine survivors

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

As an Irish woman I wouldn't wear a Potato costume out of respect for Potato famine survivors

I mean it's easy to joke when you're not really part of the oppressed group.

I mean on YouTube there's a vid circulating of blacks arguing against kkk it's like 1950s.

[Niamh.]

I mean it's easy to joke when you're not really part of the oppressed group.

I mean on YouTube there's a vid circulating of blacks arguing against kkk it's like 1950s.

Oh lighten up ffs

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Oh lighten up ffs

I can't. Too much oppression. I'm feeling it

[Livia]

I mean it's easy to joke when you're not really part of the oppressed group.

I mean on YouTube there's a vid circulating of blacks arguing against kkk it's like 1950s.

I am part of an oppressed group! It's not just black people who get oppressed.

[Z]

Maybe the difference in approaches here is that the people who can ironically joke about and condone horrific events that happened to their ancestors are the ones who have moved forward from those horrible events; and those who hang up on them can't ever move forward from them and so they continue to this day. Just saying :shrug:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Maybe the difference in approaches here is that the people who can ironically joke about and condone horrific events that happened to their ancestors are the ones who have moved forward from those horrible events; and those who hang up on them can't ever move forward from them and so they continue to this day. Just saying :shrug:


I mean it would be easy to move forward if things like this weren't still happening.
CDGoXIlmMXY

If people didn't get shot because of their skin color, if footballers didn't get monkey chants when they play, if I could wlk past n all white area without them staring or some sneering my way...the everyday list is endless.

[Kizzy]

I'm not surprised, there were many blackshirts in areas of privilege and influence, Edward was asked to abdicate due to his affiliations therefore this doesn't surprise me at all.
I posted a pic of our PM doing the same, however inadvertently :hehe:
I agreed it should be removed however due to the sensibilities of members, thinking about it it was in very bad taste.
I don't agree with the idea of moving on or glossing over the past, we should recognise mistakes, acknowledge them and never attempt to make light of any past suffering for me it's hugely disrespectful.

[lostalex]

Well, as a Jewish woman, I saw it for what it was: not serious.

well obviously she was too young to be accountable, but the fact that the royal family and large parts of the british aristocracy and barons of industry were nazi supporters is undeniable.

[Kizzy]

Makes Mr Brands comments a tad more credible that's for sure.

[Tom4784]

well obviously she was too young to be accountable, but the fact that the royal family and large parts of the british aristocracy and barons of industry were nazi supporters is undeniable.

A lot of people supported the Nazis before the war when their true colours came to light. They had supporters all over Europe and America too. What's important is that the majority of people took a stand against them when it all came into the light.

[T*]

Wasn't this before he was found to be a psychopathic dictator anyway?

[Kizzy]

Wasn't this before he was found to be a psychopathic dictator anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/hitlerconsolidaterev_print.shtml

There you go Tom, yes seems hitler was a real sweetie in 1933.

[T*]

=

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/hitlerconsolidaterev_print.shtml

There you go Tom, yes seems hitler was a real sweetie in 1933.

I'm an A grade history student, I know all of this :umm2:
Dezzy's point is basically what I was trying to say, people supported them before they knew what they were really about... No need to come for me with info I already know tbh :shrug:

[MTVN]

Worth remembering that Mussolini had been in power for ten years by 1933 and that many people recognised the very real nature of it and the threat that it could pose: the UK was witnessing street battles itself in the early 30s between Fascists and their opponents. Sure no one could have foreseen the war and the holocaust but then it's hardly as if Nazism was a perfectly benign force apart from those two blemishes on its record. Yes doing this salute would still be pretty uncontroversial but that just goes to show how easily dangerous ideas could spread and be accepted, and there were a lot of people amongst the upper echelons of society who saw a lot to admire in both Mussolini's Italy and in Hitler's Germany as much of the world suffered from the Depression and when the middle and upper classes felt themselves under threat from the spread of Communism and worker's movements.

None of this reflects anything on the Queen obviously, that goes without saying. Maybe even her mother and Edward VIII were doing it mockingly. I doubt that of Edward though. Either way the Royal family are a public institute, this was 80 years ago now, and it's pretty silly to say that only footage which shows them in a good light should be released.

[Kizzy]

=



I'm an A grade history student, I know all of this :umm2:
Dezzy's point is basically what I was trying to say, people supported them before they knew what they were really about... No need to come for me with info I already know tbh :shrug:

I haven't come for you, it's a cop out to simply suggest they were ignorant of the facts however.
As you know the nazis had gathered momentum since the beginning of the 20s, if anything 33 was when hitler hit his stride as a dictator for our royal family to appear complicit as we headed towards war would have been seen as the ultimate betrayal.

[lostalex]

A lot of people supported the Nazis before the war when their true colours came to light. They had supporters all over Europe and America too. What's important is that the majority of people took a stand against them when it all came into the light.

true, and what's more important is that they still have significant amounts of supporters all over the muslim world.