Where does the men shouldn't hit women argument fall in a situation like this?

[Rob!]

Now, I don't condone violence, like at all. I couldn't hit a fly with a swat. But what about this?

http://youtu.be/Czb4rImsph0

[Liam-]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

[Rob!]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

Exactly - and I think there are women (like the one in the video) that go around acting like that because they think that as far as men retorting are concerned, they feel invincible.
You can't go around acting like a dick without expecting some form of retaliation - and the guy couldn't exactly walk away, they were stuck in a tube train. A lot of the comments I've seen about this video say that the girl completely deserved it (whilst complimenting the guy on a fantastic slap :laugh: )

[Ramsay]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

Pretty much this :clap1:

[Ramsay]

WHAT A SLAP though fucccccccc

[Rob!]

So apparently four of them were arrested - the man, the girl and two of the other blokes throwing punches.
The guy got off because the slap was in self defence. Apparently when she hits him over the head, it's with a stiletto.

[Liam-]

So apparently four of them were arrested - the man, the girl and two of the other blokes throwing punches.
The guy got off because the slap was in self defence. Apparently when she hits him over the head, it's with a stiletto.

Yeah I heard it on The View, they all got charged with the same thing, but the '8 ball jacket guy' got let off :clap1:

[Jack_]

screaming @ the guy at 1:36 :joker:

But yeah, if a woman hits you you have every right to hit them back. I'm a feminist and actually I think the notion that women are vulnerable and should never be hit is actually more demeaning and degrading to them than the protection argument. Violence is never the answer but if you give it, be prepared to take it back.

[Ninastar]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

Preach it sista. I totally agree

[user104658]

What I do know, is that the guy in the background's reaction is fantastic.

[Rob!]

screaming @ the guy at 1:36 :joker:

But yeah, if a woman hits you you have every right to hit them back. I'm a feminist and actually I think the notion that women are vulnerable and should never be hit is actually more demeaning and degrading to them than the protection argument. Violence is never the answer but if you give it, be prepared to take it back.

Completely agree. The girl in this video was fully expecting to get away with being a bitch because a) she was a woman and b) she had all her friends around her.
And yeah, making out that women are some delicate little flowers who should be treated with care and decorum at all times is absolutely absurd. There are women who could knock the living crap out of a lot of men without even trying.

[smudgie]

I feel sorry for men really.
I brought my son up not to hit a women, however I have told hm recently that if a female hits or attacks him he should give her a slap...rather than a punch.:shrug:

[bots]

The only option in this circumstance is to use appropriate force to nullify the threat being posed. That is such a difficult judgement and very dependent on the circumstances. Not knowing what her friends or she could do next makes it an almost impossible situation to deal with

[Amy Jade]

She deserved what she got, she hit him first with her shoe.

[Kizzy]

I feel I would be doing my son a disservice if I advised him to ever hit a woman, at 6'4 it wouldn't ever be looked on objectively by the police. Best to simply walk away, it's perhaps the most responsible reaction.

[Ramsay]

She won't be a cheeky bitch again so there's that, thankfully.

[Black Dagger]

The whole video in general is disgusting. Both are equally to blame and I don't like watching any of these public displays of violence.

[Mystic Mock]

If anyone (man, woman, or a new undiscovered gender) tries to attack you first then you have every right to fight them back, this whole women can hit men but men can't hit women back is a load of bollocks imo.

I'm also not one of them that will feel sorry for any woman crying either, they only deserve my sympathy if they actually was harshly treated and not just because they don't like the fact that a man called them out for being a twat, I say the same thing when it's role-reversed.

[Mystic Mock]

If anyone (man, woman, or a new undiscovered gender) tries to attack you first then you have every right to fight them back, this whole women can hit men but men can't hit women back is a load of bollocks imo.

I'm also not one of them that will feel sorry for any woman crying either, they only deserve my sympathy if they actually was harshly treated and not just because they don't like the fact that a man called them out for being a twat, I say the same thing when it's role-reversed.

[Natalie.]

If I hit anyone, male or female then I would expect to get hit back.

[armand.kay]

Literally a mix of the bad girls club and drag race, on a tube.

[Anaesthesia]

Bad as each other. She was spoiling for a fight.

[Marsh.]

The sound from that slap. :clap1:

[Marsh.]

I just love how they go on and on for a whole minute and then as soon as he cracks her one all hell breaks loose. :joker:

[lostalex]

i don't understand the debate. a girl half his size is getting beat on. she wasn't violent, her hands were always loose, she didn't have any weapons. any guy that feels threatened by that girl is a pathetic little bitch.

That guy should be in jail.

[Kizzy]

proportional...... is the key word, is the reaction proportional to the threat?

[VanessaFeltz.]

Sweet justice

[lostalex]

Sweet justice justice how? a pathetic insecure man getting physically violent against a tiny little loud mouth woman? if you think that is just, that explains why our justice systems are so broken.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just glad I dont live in London

vile

[VanessaFeltz.]

justice how? a pathetic insecure man getting physically violent against a tiny little loud mouth woman? if you think that is just, that explains why our justice systems are so broken.

There like 5-6 people jumping on one person yelling at him and then the man says something the woman hits him with her freaking shoe.

That makes her and her pathetic friends automaticly wrong in the argument because he wasnt attacking her if you are gonna attack someone you better dont cry when someone attacks back.

Then 5-6 people jumped on the fight to beat man (not to end it) then they all got beaten.

We dont know who started it who did what but if you want to show people that you are the right person in argument dont get into people's personal space dont walk on them when they go over and then dont attack them with objects.

And is it my horrible english skills that i dont understand like almost anything they talk about?

[jennyjuniper]

I feel I would be doing my son a disservice if I advised him to ever hit a woman, at 6'4 it wouldn't ever be looked on objectively by the police. Best to simply walk away, it's perhaps the most responsible reaction.

It sounds good advice, but in the video the guy couldn't walk away. The woman deserved everything she got, in fact I'd say she got off lightly.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It sounds good advice, but in the video the guy couldn't walk away. The woman deserved everything she got, in fact I'd say she got off lightly.

He could easily have walked through the carriage and the doors to another carriage to get away from that "thing"

[Glenn.]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

This tbh

[Kizzy]

It sounds good advice, but in the video the guy couldn't walk away. The woman deserved everything she got, in fact I'd say she got off lightly.

If that was the case then why was he also arrested? We all make a conscious decision who to engage with, he made the wrong decision.

[Brother Leon]

That White Knight jumping in to defend her and getting ****ed up :joker:

[Ramsay]

That White Knight jumping in to defend her and getting ****ed up :joker:

Definitely the best part hahaah

[T*]

Like you I'm naturally against violence, unless, in conditions where it is fair game, imo, from the way I've been raised, although I would never lay a hand on a woman, if a woman wants to act like a thug and throw punches like an animal, then they should really expect to be treated like a man would be treated for behaving like a thug, this man could have easily punched her in the face, but the slap he gave her (which was a mighty fine slap btw) was sufficient enough.

I don't buy into this mentality that women can do whatever they want to men, without consequences purely because they have a vagina, if you want to think you're tough by playing on a normal man's instinct and morals of not hitting females, then you lose the right to play the 'but I'm a woman!!!!' card.

this

[Lostie!]

i don't understand the debate. a girl half his size is getting beat on. she wasn't violent, her hands were always loose, she didn't have any weapons. any guy that feels threatened by that girl is a pathetic little bitch.

That guy should be in jail.

The debate is simple. Women fought for equality, not special treatment. Contrary to what you're saying, she did get physically aggressive first (after provoking him with her silly little friends). I'm not saying his reaction was right (I think shoving her away after she swung at him would be more appropriate), but we all have breaking points and she made him reach his.

This reminds me of that scene in EastEnders years ago when Sharon slapped Phil (provoking a few half-hearted gasps), and then he slapped her back and everyone freaked out and was like "You can't do that to a woman ermagherd!!!!!!".

Oh, and your last point about guys feeling threatened by girls is slightly patronising to the women you're apparently defending. I'm sure they're happy to have you fighting their corner.

[lostalex]

The debate is simple. Women fought for equality, not special treatment. Contrary to what you're saying, she did get physically aggressive first (after provoking him with her silly little friends). I'm not saying his reaction was right (I think shoving her away after she swung at him would be more appropriate), but we all have breaking points and she made him reach his.

This reminds me of that scene in EastEnders years ago when Sharon slapped Phil (provoking a few half-hearted gasps), and then he slapped her back and everyone freaked out and was like "You can't do that to a woman ermagherd!!!!!!".

Oh, and your last point about guys feeling threatened by girls is slightly patronising to the women you're apparently defending. I'm sure they're happy to have you fighting their corner.

she got physically violent?

I didn't see her throw him to the floor and start pummeling him, infact i saw the exact opposite.

are we watching different videos?

[Crimson Dynamo]

You dont hit girls, period

If you dont like that rule then get a sex change or fck off to mars

[RichardG]

I'd never fight anyone back - man or woman - not through trying to 'be the bigger person' but because I know there's not a chance I'd win, I'm just weak as hell. :laugh: I agree in principle that you should be allowed to fight back in self defence/the idea that you should never ever hit a woman even if she's full on ambushing you is mental but I think it all got a bit out of hand from both parties by the end of that video. Everyone should've backed off after the slap.

[the truth]

cor blimey Richard do you get mugged by teenage girls?

[Mystic Mock]

You dont hit girls, period

If you dont like that rule then get a sex change or fck off to mars

So much for equality.:clap1:

[jennyjuniper]

He could easily have walked through the carriage and the doors to another carriage to get away from that "thing"

And you don't think she and her cronies wouldn't have followed him?

[jennyjuniper]

If that was the case then why was he also arrested? We all make a conscious decision who to engage with, he made the wrong decision.

He was let go when the film was reviewed , as it was obvious he reacted in self defence.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And you don't think she and her cronies wouldn't have followed him?

he could then have got off at the next station and if necessary alerted staff

[Lostie!]

she got physically violent?

I didn't see her throw him to the floor and start pummeling him, infact i saw the exact opposite.

are we watching different videos?

I said she got physical first, which she did. Remember the part (the part that instigated the violence in the first place, to be specific) where she swings at him when he turns away?

I also don't see the part where he throws her to the floor and starts pummeling her, care to explain when exactly that happens?

See, I actually acknowledged that his reaction was bad, but it seems the some refuse to admit that she did anything wrong by starting it in the first place. Classic "women hitting men isn't a problem" double standard.

You dont hit girls, period

If you dont like that rule then get a sex change or fck off to mars

You shouldn't hit anyone, period. Gender should be irrelevent. Suggesting it's less of an issue for females to hit males is complete and utter nonsense.

Not to mention downright offensive to the male victims of domestic violence (yes, female on male domestic violence is a thing too, shock horror).

[the truth]

he could then have got off at the next station and if necessary alerted staff

why should he have to go through all that bother?

[RichardG]

cor blimey Richard do you get mugged by teenage girls?

No?

[the truth]

No?

thank goodness for that, judging by your last post it appears youd be in serious trouble if they did

[RichardG]

thank goodness for that, judging by your last post it appears youd be in serious trouble if they did

tbh I'd be screwed if a child mugged me let alone a teenager, let's hope it never happens eh :laugh:

[the truth]

angry women do have a habit of throwing things at men , starting with drinks them saucepans etc for some reasons its considered oh so hilarious but it can soon escalate, every human has a right to defend himself

[Marsh.]

i don't understand the debate. a girl half his size is getting beat on. she wasn't violent, her hands were always loose, she didn't have any weapons. any guy that feels threatened by that girl is a pathetic little bitch.

That guy should be in jail.

Yeah, hitting him on the back of the head with a shoe isn't violent. :laugh:

[GiRTh]

Old film This one is better

7sbw0JA18CA

To the original clip. She was aggressive so her aggression was met with his aggression. Theres nothing I see here about being scared. I dont think that factors into this at all. Aggression is very often met with further aggression. So if you dont want someone to be aggressive toward you it is a very good idea to not become aggressive toward them.

[Shaun]

I've always been of the stance that if I'm being attacked I'm going to hit back tbh

evenespecially if it's a bloody child!!!!!!!! (ok maybe not i'd just push them over and laugh and call them a nerd and then steal their phone)

[Ammi]

..I don't know, maybe my thought process is a bit off with this but I don't really see that much difference between this thing and another thread that I've just read with a bullfighter being hurt because the bull 'fought back' and then that being praised because obviously the bull is bigger/stronger/more physically powerful etc...but the same thing in that a bull in a bull ring..'an innocent' is being taunted, provoked, tormented for a reaction etc, etc...

...with this, to me it's much the same, the guy is being bullied by the females because of a jacket he is wearing...not even staying with that verbal bullying, the female was the first one who became physical, both with 'jacket guy' and another guy who was filming it on his phone when she knocked the phone out of his hands...so she also 'picked' on 'bigger and stronger', didn't she/same as the bullfighter and then obviously would come off a little worse for wear for that for her taunting and bullying....

..anyways, I'm glad that all charges against him were dropped, I watched the vid afterwards when it showed his own injuries and not only had she cut his ear..(behind it..) when she struck him but her shoe heal came very close to his eye and could have actually taken his eye out, maybe then his reaction would have seen to be more justified..?...what I always feel sad about with things like this/and I've seen similar 'faked' social experiment type vids...is that there was very little reaction from the people on the train while she was both verbally and physically abusing him...it wasn't until he struck her back that the hell broke loose, type thing and others started to intervene...and I hate that, that a perceived 'victim' has to appear the more vulnerable....he was very much a victim of verbal and physical bullying and he 'fought back'....and really I can't see any fault in him for doing that....

[kirklancaster]

..I don't know, maybe my thought process is a bit off with this but I don't really see that much difference between this thing and another thread that I've just read with a bullfighter being hurt because the bull 'fought back' and then that being praised because obviously the bull is bigger/stronger/more physically powerful etc...but the same thing in that a bull in a bull ring..'an innocent' is being taunted, provoked, tormented for a reaction etc, etc...

...with this, to me it's much the same, the guy is being bullied by the females because of a jacket he is wearing...not even staying with that verbal bullying, the female was the first one who became physical, both with 'jacket guy' and another guy who was filming it on his phone when she knocked the phone out of his hands...so she also 'picked' on 'bigger and stronger', didn't she/same as the bullfighter and then obviously would come off a little worse for wear for that for her taunting and bullying....

..anyways, I'm glad that all charges against him were dropped, I watched the vid afterwards when it showed his own injuries and not only had she cut his ear..(behind it..) when she struck him but her shoe heal came very close to his eye and could have actually taken his eye out, maybe then his reaction would have seen to be more justified..?...what I always feel sad about with things like this/and I've seen similar 'faked' social experiment type vids...is that there was very little reaction from the people on the train while she was both verbally and physically abusing him...it wasn't until he struck her back that the hell broke loose, type thing and others started to intervene...and I hate that, that a perceived 'victim' has to appear the more vulnerable....he was very much a victim of verbal and physical bullying and he 'fought back'....and really I can't see any fault in him for doing that....

:clap1: You speak with such wisdom again Ammi.

Bullying IS bullying, and bullies ARE bullies, whether the victim is physically or mentally superior to the aggressor is totally immaterial.

Restraint or containment of an attacker is fine when the attacker is alone, but a foolish and dangerous tactic when the aggressor has cronies and you are alone - then the only sensible tactic is to disable the aggressor so as to be able to 'deal' with the inevitable attack from his/her 'mates'.

'Knock them bullies down like ninepins son - even the odds one by one. Don't worry 'bout what some might say, just so long as YOU live to walk away'. --- That's what my old grandpappy used to say. :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

I've always been of the stance that if I'm being attacked I'm going to hit back tbh

evenespecially if it's a bloody child!!!!!!!! (ok maybe not i'd just push them over and laugh and call them a nerd and then steal their phone)

:joker::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

..I don't know, maybe my thought process is a bit off with this but I don't really see that much difference between this thing and another thread that I've just read with a bullfighter being hurt because the bull 'fought back' and then that being praised because obviously the bull is bigger/stronger/more physically powerful etc...but the same thing in that a bull in a bull ring..'an innocent' is being taunted, provoked, tormented for a reaction etc, etc...

...with this, to me it's much the same, the guy is being bullied by the females because of a jacket he is wearing...not even staying with that verbal bullying, the female was the first one who became physical, both with 'jacket guy' and another guy who was filming it on his phone when she knocked the phone out of his hands...so she also 'picked' on 'bigger and stronger', didn't she/same as the bullfighter and then obviously would come off a little worse for wear for that for her taunting and bullying....

..anyways, I'm glad that all charges against him were dropped, I watched the vid afterwards when it showed his own injuries and not only had she cut his ear..(behind it..) when she struck him but her shoe heal came very close to his eye and could have actually taken his eye out, maybe then his reaction would have seen to be more justified..?...what I always feel sad about with things like this/and I've seen similar 'faked' social experiment type vids...is that there was very little reaction from the people on the train while she was both verbally and physically abusing him...it wasn't until he struck her back that the hell broke loose, type thing and others started to intervene...and I hate that, that a perceived 'victim' has to appear the more vulnerable....he was very much a victim of verbal and physical bullying and he 'fought back'....and really I can't see any fault in him for doing that....

The man is a bull? I know that's not meant to be insulting to mankind, but if you're equating them with beasts of the field incapable of rational thought .. :joker:

[jennyjuniper]

:clap1: You speak with such wisdom again Ammi.

Bullying IS bullying, and bullies ARE bullies, whether the victim is physically or mentally superior to the aggressor is totally immaterial.

Restraint or containment of an attacker is fine when the attacker is alone, but a foolish and dangerous tactic when the aggressor has cronies and you are alone - then the only sensible tactic is to disable the aggressor so as to be able to 'deal' with the inevitable attack from his/her 'mates'.

'Knock them bullies down like ninepins son - even the odds one by one. Don't worry 'bout what some might say, just so long as YOU live to walk away'. --- That's what my old grandpappy used to say. :hehe:

Well said Kirk and Ammi. Great to hear from you again Kirklancaster:dance::cheer2:

[kirklancaster]

Well said Kirk and Ammi. Great to hear from you again Kirklancaster:dance::cheer2:

Thanks Jenny. If you check out my 'Kirk Titmarsh' thread on General Chat, you'll see what I've been up to during my 'absence'.

[Denver]

Some of the comments are BS women have equal rights not special rights if she is going to bully people on a train then stupid bitch deserve what she got.

[lostalex]

Some of the comments are BS women have equal rights not special rights if she is going to bully people on a train then stupid bitch deserve what she got.

being rude and yelling in someone's face and even slapping them on the head is not the same as beating the hell out of someone.

a man knocking a woman out is NOT EQUAL to a woman slapping him upside the head.

[Liam-]

being rude and yelling in someone's face and even slapping them on the head is not the same as beating the hell out of someone.

a man knocking a woman out is NOT EQUAL to a woman slapping him upside the head.

You're right, it's not, but I haven't seen anyone say it is and the guy in the clip didn't do that, so what's your point?

[user104658]

being rude and yelling in someone's face and even slapping them on the head is not the same as beating the hell out of someone.

a man knocking a woman out is NOT EQUAL to a woman slapping him upside the head.
That's not what happened though, she was up in his face and he actually stayed passive, until she hit him with something (a shoe, allegedly) at which point he slapped her.

She then backs right off, and it's a guy who then attacks him (presumably for "hitting a girl") and the two guys fight. It's not the girl he lays into. She gets one slap. I'd say it's a reasonable response to be honest.

[lostalex]

maybe i misunderstood the video, the person being thrown to the floor and being pummeled towards the end, i assumed it was the same girl.

[Niamh.]

That's not what happened though, she was up in his face and he actually stayed passive, until she hit him with something (a shoe, allegedly) at which point he slapped her.

She then backs right off, and it's a guy who then attacks him (presumably for "hitting a girl") and the two guys fight. It's not the girl he lays into. She gets one slap. I'd say it's a reasonable response to be honest.

I can't watch the video but if that's what happened it sounds fair. You can't go round hitting people and not expect a person to hit you back, I don't care what gender you are

[Liam-]

maybe i misunderstood the video, the person being thrown to the floor and being pummeled towards the end, i assumed it was the same girl.

No, it was a guy that jumped up trying to be the white knight that got his ass kicked, not the girl.

[Livia]

No one should be hitting anyone for any reason.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one should be hitting anyone for any reason.

I think Nick Grimshaw should at the very least get a kick right up the arse when he bends down to stroke a Pug

[Livia]

I think Nick Grimshaw should at the very least get a kick right up the arse when he bends down to stroke a Pug

Okay... no one should be hitting anyone... unless it's funny.

[jennyjuniper]

Thanks Jenny. If you check out my 'Kirk Titmarsh' thread on General Chat, you'll see what I've been up to during my 'absence'.

I have checked it out. It's amazing:clap2: In fact, if you are ever in Denmark and at a loose end, I have a huge back garden that I call the Wild Wood that needs someone like you to bring some order to it.:laugh:

[the truth]

being rude and yelling in someone's face and even slapping them on the head is not the same as beating the hell out of someone.

a man knocking a woman out is NOT EQUAL to a woman slapping him upside the head.

that's not what happened, she hit him across the head with a shoe drawing blood and leaving scars