Kelly Osbourne: If you deport the Latinos, who will clean the toilets?

[Smithy]

628622578194644992

I know what she meant, but what an awful way to put it :laugh2:

[T*]

omfg :laugh2:

[user104658]

:hehe:

(She is however correct in the sense that the US economy balances on a steady stream of cheap "illegal labour" and would take a massive hit if it was removed)

[Z]

That was awkward to watch

[Livia]

Having heard her sing, perhaps her own talent lies with toilet cleaning? If she has a Green Card that is, being a blow-in herself.

[Amy Jade]

She could have phrased that in a better way even if she does have a point.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Where are the lies tho?

[Ninastar]

Actually Kelly, they do the grass too. FGS, get with it.

[user104658]

Having heard her sing, perhaps her own talent lies with toilet cleaning? If she has a Green Card that is, being a blow-in herself.

I remember her doing "changes" with ozzy, i can still hear it in my head even though I've only actually heard it that once. It was that bad.

[the truth]

I WOULD

[Pete.]

What a trainwreck

[Saph]

mess

#BuyChangesonitunes

[T*]

Actually Kelly, they do the grass too. FGS, get with it.

silly lesbian, they do laundry as well :rolleyes:

[MB.]

I WOULD

...you're volunteering to clean the toilets? How kind.

[the truth]

...you're volunteering to clean the toilets? How kind.

I love your toilet humour:laugh:

[Loukas]

https://d.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1380395114ra/760863.gif

[iRyan]

One of the dumbest comments of the year. So idiotic.

[Mystic Mock]

Will anything beat Prince Phillip's comment about "who do you sponge off?" to a random group of women?

[empire]

amercians call latinos, in usa, with a slang name called wetback,

[Ammi]

...those days when everything you say just comes out so wrong...hmmm though...

[kirklancaster]

I love your toilet humour:laugh:

Yes, Definitely above Bog standard humour - like the great W.C Fields. Won't get Panned by the critics with humour like that. Had me Pissing myself. :laugh:

[Headie]

d0TFayRZeS8

Her comments come after her other co-hosts Whoopi Goldberg, Rosie Perez, Michelle Collins and Raven-Symoné began discussing Trump and his lead in recent polls.

Immediately after Osbourne's comment, her co-hosts can be heard reacting in disapproval off-screen to what she said. Once she realized her co-hosts were not agreeing with her, Osbourne began backtracking her comments.

"Latinos are not the only people to do that," Perez told her.

"Come on, you know I would never mean it like that," Osbourne said.

Osbourne's comment was a response to Perez saying Trump's comments are not helping the current immigration situation in the United States.

"There are a lot of Latinos here in this country that do agree that the immigration problem is a problem and it does need to be addressed and it does need fixed," Perez said, who is of Puerto Rican descent. "But, making those comments, those racist comments, do not help."

Later in the day, Osbourne posted an apology to Facebook, writing "I've learned a very valuable lesson. It is my hope that this situation will open up a conversation about immigration and the Latin community as a whole."

Perez also tweeted an apology to Osbourne, writing, "My apologies @KellyOsbourne, I took your point wrong-#Trump #Latinos. My bad. You're heart is so pure & righteous. I adore you."

I feel bad for her tbh, I don't think she meant it in a malicious way. Still a silly thing to say though.

[Moosething]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286011

[Headie]

Oh my bad :laugh:

[the truth]

awkward. she tried to be overly politically correct to make trump look bad and it backfired on here....what a twat

[Nedusa]

She was talking frankly without malice or any racial overtones, latino's do a disproportionately large amount of sanitary work...fact

So why the rush to label her racist....ridiculous PC brigade again.

[Smithy]

Almost like people don't know how to use the search function :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are not most helps and domestics in the US Latino?

[reece(:]

She was talking frankly without malice or any racial overtones, latino's do a disproportionately large amount of sanitary work...fact

So why the rush to label her racist....ridiculous PC brigade again.
Defend ha and buy One Word on iTunes!

[Nedusa]

Yes, Definitely above Bog standard humour - like the great W.C Fields. Won't get Panned by the critics with humour like that. Had me Pissing myself. :laugh:

I think they should rename them Latrino's


:joker::joker::joker:

[the truth]

She was talking frankly without malice or any racial overtones, latino's do a disproportionately large amount of sanitary work...fact

So why the rush to label her racist....ridiculous PC brigade again.

trouble is Kelly osbourne IS the pc brigade , she was trying to throw trump under the bus but she ended up looking a bigger twat. trump isn't a racist either, hes an outspoken right winger and massively successful outspoken businessman....in both cases both are NOT racists, theyre both guilty of speaking clumsily....but the hysterical media and the hysterical pc crowd ignore the issues and concentrate on the trivial words....the liberal left are the real criminals. they've banned free speech ignored urgent issues and concentrated on words like SWARM instead of the actual practical immigration tragedy that is unfolding across Europe and the us

[Headie]

Almost like people don't know how to use the search function :fist:

https://media4.giphy.com/media/fpEBypGE5qBVu/200_s.gif

[Withano]

I think they should rename them Latrino's


:joker::joker::joker:

That pun :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

One of the dumbest comments of the year. So idiotic.

Care to say why you think that?

[EspeonBB]

Messy
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CP9gYDEzjjU/TTxdEWYiqgI/AAAAAAAAAQU/WcyVz0OzAAM/s1600/kelly-osbourne.jpg

[Lostie!]

It definitely sounds more like a jibe at Donald Trump being a hypocrite that she just put across quite badly. And I'm certainly not first in line to stick up for certain members of that family.

[user104658]

You know, I've only just watched the video and I don't actually think she meant it the way it came out :joker:. It was less about her thinking that they're only good for cleaning toilets, more to do with the fact that Trump is a hypocrite for standing on his soap box talking about an "immigration problem" whilst, no doubt, happily employing the same people to save himself a few $$$.

[the truth]

and the osbournes have never used cheap labour?

[Ross.]

:joker: messy.

[Shaun]

It's kinda obvious what she meant and a rather convenient media smokescreen to distract from Trump's idiotic politics

[bots]

Why is what Kelly Osborne says considered relevant :shrug:

[Livia]

You know, I've only just watched the video and I don't actually think she meant it the way it came out :joker:. It was less about her thinking that they're only good for cleaning toilets, more to do with the fact that Trump is a hypocrite for standing on his soap box talking about an "immigration problem" whilst, no doubt, happily employing the same people to save himself a few $$$.

I'm sure it wasn't how it was meant to come out. But then, what do they expect? What is her specialism, exactly? Why would anyone be interested in her take on things? She's the overweight ex-junkie daughter of an ex-junkie rock star. Did the people who booked her for this show expect her to be able to choose her words carefully? If so, they're idiots.

[the truth]

shes a dumb fake, a typical spoilt child of a celebrity...no now ozzy has spent zillions getting her off drugs shes a so called tv expert zzzzzzzzzzz... shes ridden on the back of her old mans achievements and money all her life...shes even thrown him under the bus and run him down to the ground on chat shows.....shes got a mouth like a toilet just like her vile mother...the only way someone so talentless will remain a celebrity is to do stupid things and talk attention seeking drivel

[Mystic Mock]

I feel bad for her tbh, I don't think she meant it in a malicious way. Still a silly thing to say though.

I agree with you, but that's why she should think about how to word it before saying it because on Immigration discussions if you don't put it across properly we all know what the next stage is then.

[Mystic Mock]

trouble is Kelly osbourne IS the pc brigade , she was trying to throw trump under the bus but she ended up looking a bigger twat. trump isn't a racist either, hes an outspoken right winger and massively successful outspoken businessman....in both cases both are NOT racists, theyre both guilty of speaking clumsily....but the hysterical media and the hysterical pc crowd ignore the issues and concentrate on the trivial words....the liberal left are the real criminals. they've banned free speech ignored urgent issues and concentrated on words like SWARM instead of the actual practical immigration tragedy that is unfolding across Europe and the us

Tbf the right wingers do throw out “PC Brigade” whenever anything controversial gets said and they can't accept the fact that not everyone is agreeing with them on an issue, I think that on average left wingers however make it harder to talk about Immigration without being made to feel like you're a racist and an awful person.

[empire]

your right the truth, osbourne's wife and children have used him, like a turkey, I remember how spoilt she was on their show, he should of ditched sharon years ago, his children have not done a days work in their own life, and when he dies, they will piss his money up on a wall, is it any wonder why he is still touring, because he has too for, sharon's shopping spree, which is in millions, they steal his credit cards, the prince of darkness, children are living proof, of a younger generation, that want to be famous, and have zero talent, for lots of money, tv has went down hill because of this,

[Shaun]

"osbourne's children have used him"

ok

[lostalex]

amercians call latinos, in usa, with a slang name called wetback,

actually they call illegal immigrants that cross the southern border wet backs (because they swam across the rio grande to get there)

And Mexicans in Mexico also call illegal Mexicans in America wetbacks. so it's not a racial thing, Mexicans use the same term.

Now if you call a Mexican-American that is not illegal a wetback, that is racist, because it's assuming that all people of Mexican decent in America are here illegally, when in fact the vast majority of people of Mexican decent in America are here legally and are American citizens.

[Ammi]

..yeah, I think it's quite obvious what she was trying to say and it all came out terribly wrong..but I find that quite worrying or revealing in itself because in trying to say that Donald Trump is happy to have Latino people working for him in lowly jobs, she's also saying that's how she relates those Latino people as well..or that's how it came across, so really not good...I think that someone who has had a pampered life also, can't really try to slur others for the same, I think that's somehow known as something like irony...

..she's ok though, I like Kelly and I hope that she isn't vilified for it all...

[lostalex]

..yeah, I think it's quite obvious what she was trying to say and it all came out terribly wrong..but I find that quite worrying or revealing in itself because in trying to say that Donald Trump is happy to have Latino people working for him in lowly jobs, she's also saying that's how she relates those Latino people as well..or that's how it came across, so really not good...I think that someone who has had a pampered life also, can't really try to slur others for the same, I think that's somehow known as something like irony...

..she's ok though, I like Kelly and I hope that she isn't vilified for it all...

Donald trump never said anything against latino people, he said things against ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants....they are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. The fact that Kelly doesn't understand the difference is racist in and of itself.

[arista]

That was awkward to watch


Its LA

Someone has to clean the Bog
Z

[Kizzy]

They latched onto that pretty quick didn't they? I understood it as he would be as likely to have Latinos in his employ as anyone.
She is still a voter and as such is allowed to have an opinion on this 'politician' whether she is fat, thin or an ex addict is entirely irrelevant.

[Livia]

Of course she's allowed her opinion. The difference is that she's been encouraged to blurt out that opinion on TV when she is too stupid to engage the clutch of tact between her mouth and her brain. I'm sure there are millions of slack-jawed non-thinkers in the US they could have asked... but they chose her purely because her Dad's Ozzy Osborne and her mother is Sharon Osborne. Bizarre...

[lostalex]

They latched onto that pretty quick didn't they? I understood it as he would be as likely to have Latinos in his employ as anyone.
She is still a voter and as such is allowed to have an opinion on this 'politician' whether she is fat, thin or an ex addict is entirely irrelevant.

no one said she isn't allowed to have an opinion. but having an opinion, especially a loud one also means everyone else has the right to have an opinion on you. welcome to freedom of speech.

[Kizzy]

The context was twisted is all, it's obvious. Suggesting she and many Americans are too dim to have an opinion on Mr Trumps comments... He's made gaffes that would make prince Phillip gasp :/
How about we begin to apply those lofty standards to those in positions of responsibility?

[Livia]

The context was twisted is all, it's obvious. Suggesting she and many Americans are too dim to have an opinion on Mr Trumps comments... He's made gaffes that would make prince Phillip gasp :/
How about we begin to apply those lofty standards to those in positions of responsibility?

I never suggested she and many Americans are too dim to have an opinion, I said they probably shouldn't necessarily have their opinions broadcast on TV. I can't remember the last time Prince Philip was on a chat show like that so I have no idea why you're trying to mix the two.

[Kizzy]

I never suggested she and many Americans are too dim to have an opinion, I said they probably shouldn't necessarily have their opinions broadcast on TV. I can't remember the last time Prince Philip was on a chat show like that so I have no idea why you're trying to mix the two.

Because I can, who is qualified to have an opinion on politicians and the silly things they say?
That's what instigated this whole debate, Trumps racist attitude... Suddenly that's all forgotten due to an out of context remark :shrug:

[lostalex]

The context was twisted is all, it's obvious. Suggesting she and many Americans are too dim to have an opinion on Mr Trumps comments... He's made gaffes that would make prince Phillip gasp :/
How about we begin to apply those lofty standards to those in positions of responsibility?

i disagree that prince phillip would gasp. i have a feeling if trump ever did become prez and he visited the palace, phil and the donald would get along like gangbusters.

I'm not sure which is more embarrassing, having an idiot head of state that didn't get elected, or one that was. either way, both citizenships are a joke.

[Moosething]

She ain't no shazza

[Lostie!]

She ain't no shazza

Which can only be a good thing. :hee:

Sorry, I'm really not a fan of that woman. :laugh:

[the truth]

Trumps words were taken out of context by hysterical media, osbournes words were over hyped by hysterical media...the only thing i like about kelly is her calves

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Lolz white people and embedded supremacy. Sometimes they don't realize they have it and it spurts out like diarrhoea at inappropriate times.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Trumps words were taken out of context by hysterical media, osbournes words were over hyped by hysterical media...the only thing i like about kelly is her calves

and this.
WUb5JihqZZQ

[the truth]

lolz white people and embedded supremacy. Sometimes they don't realize they have it and it spurts out like diarrhoea at inappropriate times.

thats what youre doing now

[Lostie!]

Lolz white people and embedded supremacy. Sometimes they don't realize they have it and it spurts out like diarrhoea at inappropriate times.

How is generalising and stereotyping "white people" not racist? :unsure:

[the truth]

How is generalising and stereotyping "white people" not racist? :unsure:

it IS ignorant and it is racist. Its also usually blamed on old white men, so its sexist racist and ageist....but that's fine because 1) theyre white and 2) theyre men

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

How is generalising and stereotyping "white people" not racist? :unsure:

Black people can't be racist. http://i.imgur.com/rWtLVv5.gif

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

thats what youre doing now

But it's true. How can something so offensive and degrading just flow so freely out of her mouth like that? Of all the things she could attach to Latinos, cleaning a white man's toilet was all she could think of.

[Lostie!]

But it's true. How can something so offensive and degrading just flow so freely out of her mouth like that? Of all the things she could attach to Latinos, cleaning a white man's toilet was all she could think of.

Not when you apply it to all white people as a whole.

Black people can't be racist. http://i.imgur.com/rWtLVv5.gif

Oh, okay. Thanks for confirming that there's no, sensible, reasonable, rational discussion to be had with you. :)

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Not when you apply it to all white people as a whole.



Oh, okay. Thanks for confirming that there's no, sensible, reasonable, rational discussion to be had with you. :)

Well we can have the discussion later if you want, bae. Right now i'm rushing. :creep:

[Livia]

Black people can't be racist. http://i.imgur.com/rWtLVv5.gif

One of your more ridiculous posts.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

One of your more ridiculous posts.

I love you. :bawling:

[Kizzy]

One of your more ridiculous posts.

Not really, there's a whole movement that suggests this, it's not unheard of.


'Mr Jasper, an equal rights campaigner and activist, said that while black Britons may hold prejudiced views, they should not be described as racist.'

'Mr Jasper, who is now the chairman of the campaign group Black Activists Rising Against Cuts, took to Twitter yesterday to complain about the number of black youths being jailed.
Using the hashtag “sackboris2012”, Mr Jasper asked: “Which mayor has seen the number of black youth going to jail in London increase by 100 per cent during his term?”
His comment prompted a bitter war of words on Twitter between him and Ahzaz Chowdhury, a former adviser to the Conservatives in Tower Hamlets, east London. Mr Jasper went on to say: “Institutional racism in the criminal justice means black citizens face discrimination.”

He accused Mr Chowdhury of being “an apologist for the racism of the Tory party”.
He said: “It’s you and the Tory party whose policies have seen levels of resurgent racism not seen since the war. Black people can’t be racist”.
Mr Chowdhury asked: “So you yourself could never be a racist?”
Mr Jasper answered: “Why is it African activists like me seem to attract public political criticism from Asian men? Don’t see Africans attacking Asian activists? You’re confused about the political reality and power dynamics of racism.'

“No black person in the UK can be racist. Racism is prejudice plus power. Black people can be prejudiced but not racist.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9221047/Black-people-cannot-be-racist-says-former-Ken-Livingstone-aide.html

[Kizzy]

OATfJ1SwnvQ

[the truth]

maybe we need to redefine the term racism

[Kizzy]

It already has a definition, some just need to comprehend it.

[Ninastar]

'The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.'

That is the definition of racism. There's no mention of a specific colours. Anyone can be racist. No matter what colour they are. To suggest otherwise is naive and ridiculous. Some cases of racism may be worse than others, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be taken as seriously.

[the truth]

It already has a definition, some just need to comprehend it.

it needs to be reclarified and redefined...it seems that `the original meaning was to defend and free certain people from discrimination, there seems to be little covering the alleged oppressed groups from discriminating themselves and little to cover what constitutes reasonable or proportional action in retaliation against said oppression. the same with sexism it only seems to work one way, which is wrong and unfair

[Tom4784]

Not really, there's a whole movement that suggests this, it's not unheard of.


'Mr Jasper, an equal rights campaigner and activist, said that while black Britons may hold prejudiced views, they should not be described as racist.'

'Mr Jasper, who is now the chairman of the campaign group Black Activists Rising Against Cuts, took to Twitter yesterday to complain about the number of black youths being jailed.
Using the hashtag “sackboris2012”, Mr Jasper asked: “Which mayor has seen the number of black youth going to jail in London increase by 100 per cent during his term?”
His comment prompted a bitter war of words on Twitter between him and Ahzaz Chowdhury, a former adviser to the Conservatives in Tower Hamlets, east London. Mr Jasper went on to say: “Institutional racism in the criminal justice means black citizens face discrimination.”

He accused Mr Chowdhury of being “an apologist for the racism of the Tory party”.
He said: “It’s you and the Tory party whose policies have seen levels of resurgent racism not seen since the war. Black people can’t be racist”.
Mr Chowdhury asked: “So you yourself could never be a racist?”
Mr Jasper answered: “Why is it African activists like me seem to attract public political criticism from Asian men? Don’t see Africans attacking Asian activists? You’re confused about the political reality and power dynamics of racism.'

“No black person in the UK can be racist. Racism is prejudice plus power. Black people can be prejudiced but not racist.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9221047/Black-people-cannot-be-racist-says-former-Ken-Livingstone-aide.html

I'm in two minds about this, I don't think he's wrong about the whole prejudice+power thing but I don't think it's a blanket statement either. What if a black person against another minority and vice versa? I wouldn't consider that prejudice but racism.

I think it's quite ridiculous when white people complain about being victims of racism, we have never really experienced it on a level that our race has inflicted on others and white privilege will ensure that we never will.

[Ninastar]

If you don't think white people can experience racism, then move to some parts of America. I have a friend who's had to move over there because her husband works there and she says she's never felt so unwelcome and hated in her life.

I went through it when I was a kid... If you haven't lived there, you just cannot say.

Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous that a white person can face racism, but when you're made to feel hated/unwelcome/left out/etc etc based on your skin colour, then it's racism either way. Racism has no colour.

[Kizzy]

If you don't think white people can experience racism, then move to some parts of America. I have a friend who's had to move over there because her husband works there and she says she's never felt so unwelcome and hated in her life.

I went through it when I was a kid... If you haven't lived there, you just cannot say.

Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous that a white person can face racism, but when you're made to feel hated/unwelcome/left out/etc etc based on your skin colour, then it's racism either way. Racism has no colour.

That is prejudice not racism.

[Ninastar]

That is prejudice not racism.

In your opinion, that is. But by definition, it is racism.

[Tom4784]

If you don't think white people can experience racism, then move to some parts of America. I have a friend who's had to move over there because her husband works there and she says she's never felt so unwelcome and hated in her life.

I went through it when I was a kid... If you haven't lived there, you just cannot say.

Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous that a white person can face racism, but when you're made to feel hated/unwelcome/left out/etc etc based on your skin colour, then it's racism either way. Racism has no colour.

The truth of the matter is your friend can walk almost anywhere in America and not be at risk of racial profiling and the like, while a black person will be viewed as suspicious if they dare to wear a hoodie. We don't have to worry about getting on a bus or a plane and being treated like a potential terrorist. I think that, sometimes, we do get tastes of what suffering racism can be like but we cannot compare what we might suffer to what the actual minorities suffer because, at the end of the day, white people are the majority in western societies.

When you look at the history and look at things now, I can't really blame some members of the black community being embittered by it all. As a white person it's infuriating to witness racism but I can't imagine the feeling of actually experiencing it.

[Ninastar]

The truth of the matter is your friend can walk almost anywhere in America and not be at risk of racial profiling and the like, while a black person will be viewed as suspicious if they dare to wear a hoodie. We don't have to worry about getting on a bus or a plane and being treated like a potential terrorist. I think that, sometimes, we do get tastes of what suffering racism can be like but we cannot compare what we might suffer to what the actual minorities suffer.

When you look at the history and look at things now, I can't really blame some members of the black community being embittered by it all. As a white person it's infuriating to witness racism but I can't imagine the feeling of actually experiencing it.

Yeah, maybe white people can't suffer hate as a whole (although, there is still a lot of hate for them out there. just look at social media), but they can still have racist things said to them and be hated on for their skin colour... which is all I'm saying. You can say racist things no matter what colour you are.

[Lostie!]

'The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.'

That is the definition of racism. There's no mention of a specific colours. Anyone can be racist. No matter what colour they are. To suggest otherwise is naive and ridiculous. Some cases of racism may be worse than others, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be taken as seriously.

Spot on. :clap1:

I think it's quite ridiculous when white people complain about being victims of racism, we have never really experienced it on a level that our race has inflicted on others and white privilege will ensure that we never will.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Nobody is undermining the awful treatment of black people throughout history, but racism is racism regardless and I don't believe any instance should be deemed as less of an issue simply because the scope might not be as large.

What if a white person is the victim of a racially-motivated attack by a black person? Is this something to take lightly because the white victim will apparently never suffer the same level of prejudice as his attacker?

Racism is reprehensible in all of it's forms, I don't think it's ever ridiculous for someone (whatever their skin colour) to complain about racism when they have indeed suffered it.

I'm mixed race (English / Pakistani) and I had some racist taunts in my childhood. It hurt, the fact that I haven't been in the same position as black people throughout the worst days of slavery and segregation didn't lessen the blow.

[Ninastar]

Spot on. :clap1:



I don't think that's entirely fair. Nobody is undermining the awful treatment of black people throughout history, but racism is racism regardless and I don't believe any instance should be deemed as less of an issue simply because the scope might not be as large.

What if a white person is the victim of a racially-motivated attack by a black person? Is this something to take lightly because the white victim will apparently never suffer the same level of prejudice as his attacker?

Racism is reprehensible in all of it's forms, I don't think it's ever ridiculous for someone (whatever their skin colour) to complain about racism when they have indeed suffered it.

I'm mixed race (English / Pakistani) and I had some racist taunts in my childhood. It hurt, the fact that I haven't been in the same position as black people throughout the worst days of slavery and segregation didn't lessen the blow.

Beautifully put and I'm glad someone who is mixed race agrees with this. I'm not that great with words, but this is something I'm passionate about, having lived in so many places over the world.

[Ammi]

I'm in two minds about this, I don't think he's wrong about the whole prejudice+power thing but I don't think it's a blanket statement either. What if a black person against another minority and vice versa? I wouldn't consider that prejudice but racism.

I think it's quite ridiculous when white people complain about being victims of racism, we have never really experienced it on a level that our race has inflicted on others and white privilege will ensure that we never will.

..yeah, me as well and I always listen to things that CeeCee says and research them because I do understand what she's saying...there are many articles and obviously they're conflicting, here's just one of them, but there are lots of them on 'can black people be racist toward white people'...

http://sistahvegan.com/2013/06/01/can-black-people-be-racist-towards-white-people/


..I think it's as the truth said/the definition of the word because prejudice and bigoted, yes...but racism..?...

[Livia]

Black people can be racist against Asians. Black people can be racist again white people... to say they're incapable of it is R I D I C U L O U S ! Jews are a minority who've been discriminated against for centuries, we've been murdered, gassed, oppressed, expelled from countries, beaten, businesses and property taken... even now Jews are regularly shot while worshiping in synagogues right across the world. Does this mean Jews can't be racist? NO! OF COURSE NOT! We can be as racist as anyone else.

IThinkILoveYouToo tells me that Jews don't understand black people's plight because we "own the banks and Hollywood". That comment would suggest to me that black people can at least discriminate even if the comment was said in ignorance. The racism in her generalising comments about white people has yet to be confirmed by the Mods because I've not noticed any having been removed.

[T*]

Black people can't be racist. http://i.imgur.com/rWtLVv5.gif


:facepalm:

[Northern Monkey]

Anyone can be racist!I've mentioned before that one of my schools was in an asian area and they would drive past spitting at me and shouting '*****ing white bastard',If that's not racism then what is?

[user104658]

One suspects that what is being discussed when people say "minorities can't be racist" is institutional racism and, yes, it is arguably true that only white people can engage in institutional racism in Europe / the US (though it is worth pointing out that it does happen with other ethnicities, and against white people too, in other countries such as S. Korea and Japan).

However, institutional racism shouldn't be confused with plain old common racism. Anyone, of any nationality, colour or creed can be a big fat ol' racist.

[Livia]

One suspects that what is being discussed when people say "minorities can't be racist" is institutional racism and, yes, it is arguably true that only white people can engage in institutional racism in Europe / the US (though it is worth pointing out that it does happen with other ethnicities, and against white people too, in other countries such as S. Korea and Japan).

However, institutional racism shouldn't be confused with plain old common racism. Anyone, of any nationality, colour or creed can be a big fat ol' racist.

I agree with you again TS. That's twice now...

[user104658]

I think it's quite ridiculous when white people complain about being victims of racism, we have never really experienced it on a level that our race has inflicted on others and white privilege will ensure that we never will.

Dubious about this. That's sort of like saying it's ridiculous for someone to claim to be a victim of assault because they were only punched once and have no idea what it's like to be beaten to a pulp and then raped. It's lesser, but it's still assault.

Or to draw a more direct comparison - it's like saying it's ridiculous for women in the modern western world to complain about being the victims of sexism, because they can vote, haven't had their genitals mutilated, and aren't forced into marriage. If a woman is turned down for a job because of her gender, does that not pale into insignificance when compared to the plight of some other women around the world? Of course it does. It's still sexist, though.

That is prejudice not racism.
Prejudice on the grounds of race, is racism :shrug:. By definition.

[Northern Monkey]

Dubious about this. That's sort of like saying it's ridiculous for someone to claim to be a victim of assault because they were only punched once and have no idea what it's like to be beaten to a pulp and then raped. It's lesser, but it's still assault.

Or to draw a more direct comparison - it's like saying it's ridiculous for women in the modern western world to complain about being the victims of sexism, because they can vote, haven't had their genitals mutilated, and aren't forced into marriage. If a woman is turned down for a job because of her gender, does that not pale into insignificance when compared to the plight of some other women around the world? Of course it does. It's still sexist, though.


Prejudice on the grounds of race, is racism :shrug:. By definition.:thumbs: Exactly.

[Ninastar]

I agree with you again TS. That's twice now...

yep, same here... what is going on!??

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I was probably talking more about institutional racism then general racism tbh.

Or to draw a more direct comparison - it's like saying it's ridiculous for women in the modern western world to complain about being the victims of sexism, because they can vote, haven't had their genitals mutilated, and aren't forced into marriage. If a woman is turned down for a job because of her gender, does that not pale into insignificance when compared to the plight of some other women around the world? Of course it does. It's still sexist, though.

I get what you're trying to say but this comparison doesn't really work at all.

[Kizzy]

Prejudice on the grounds of race, is racism :shrug:. By definition.

That would be a literal definition, however the prejudice + power definition is the standard.

[user104658]

That would be a literal definition, however the prejudice + power definition is the standard.
It's the standard definition of institutional racism, there's a distinct difference, and it's one that shouldn't be ignored because there is no replacement for the word on its own. Prejudice is a more generalised word that simply doesn't work as a substitute on its own.

You could call it "Negative prejudice on the grounds of race" but... Well... that's just the definition of racism?

Also, pointing out that there is a difference between general racism and institutional racism doesn't somehow dilute the reality of the seriousness of institutional racism... Which seems to be some people's concern.

[Kizzy]

It's the standard definition of institutional racism, there's a distinct difference, and it's one that shouldn't be ignored because there is no replacement for the word on its own. Prejudice is a more generalised word that simply doesn't work as a substitute on its own.

You could call it "Negative prejudice on the grounds of race" but... Well... that's just the definition of racism?

Also, pointing out that there is a difference between general racism and institutional racism doesn't somehow dilute the reality of the seriousness of institutional racism... Which seems to be some people's concern.

Wait a minute, you can't say prejudice is any less of a word than racism. :/

The literal definition is prejudice on the grounds of race and yet that has no historical connotations to it does it, it doesn't take into account the oppression, repression and suppression does it?
It's a blanket term that 'whitewashes' ( :hehe: ) the true meaning of racism.

[user104658]

Wait a minute, you can't say prejudice is any less of a word than racism. :/

The literal definition is prejudice on the grounds of race and yet that has no historical connotations to it does it, it doesn't take into account the oppression, repression and suppression does it?
It's a blanket term that 'whitewashes' ( :hehe: ) the true meaning of racism.
I didn't say it's "less" of a word, I pointed out that it's not descriptive enough, there are a million different varieties of prejudice. Prejudice on the grounds of age is ageism, prejudice on the grounds of sex is sexism, prejudice on the grounds of race is racism.

The type of racism you are talking about, both with historical context and with regards to there being an element of power / control today, is called institutional racism. The adjective is important, it's what let's you know what sort of racism we're talking about. It doesn't dilute or whitewash the term "racism". If anything, it adds to the implied severity?

[Northern Monkey]

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a programme to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry,


"someone of a different race".Does'nt say here that you have to be white to be racist:facepalm:

[Kizzy]

Aw well you keep facepalming yourself I couldn't make my point any clearer :laugh:

[Kizzy]

I didn't say it's "less" of a word, I pointed out that it's not descriptive enough, there are a million different varieties of prejudice. Prejudice on the grounds of age is ageism, prejudice on the grounds of sex is sexism, prejudice on the grounds of race is racism.

The type of racism you are talking about, both with historical context and with regards to there being an element of power / control today, is called institutional racism. The adjective is important, it's what let's you know what sort of racism we're talking about. It doesn't dilute or whitewash the term "racism". If anything, it adds to the implied severity?

I am aware what institutional racism is thankyou, by the same token would you say women could be accused of sexism against men?

[arista]

Not all Latinos will be Deported


Only the Illegal ones

So they can carry on Cleaning Celebs Bogs

[user104658]

I am aware what institutional racism is thankyou, by the same token would you say women could be accused of sexism against men?
If a woman discriminates against a man purely because he is male, then yes, that woman is being sexist.

[Kizzy]

If a woman discriminates against a man purely because he is male, then yes, that woman is being sexist.

Not institutional sexism then?...

[user104658]

Not institutional sexism then?...
If a random woman says "all men are stupid arrogant pigs" then she is being casually sexist.

If a recruiter is hiring for a company with a mandate that says they will automatically reject any male candidate, or if a government introduces a law that applies only to men, then that is institutional sexism.

It's the position of power that makes the distinction and that's why the distinction is important.

Women can be and frequently are sexist.

Ethnic minorities can be and frequently are racist.

It is still relatively rare that either women or ethnic minorities are collectively in positions of power in order to be able to engage in institutional sexism / racism. That is the problem. That's what highlights the imbalance and that's why defining the difference is actually important... So that the actual discrepancies don't get lost under the nonsensical ideas that black people "can't be" racist and women "can't be" sexist.

[Kizzy]

If a random woman says "all men are stupid arrogant pigs" then she is being casually sexist.

If a recruiter is hiring for a company with a mandate that says they will automatically reject any male candidate, or if a government introduces a law that applies only to men, then that is institutional sexism.

It's the position of power that makes the distinction and that's why the distinction is important.

Women can be and frequently are sexist.

Ethnic minorities can be and frequently are racist.

It is still relatively rare that either women or ethnic minorities are collectively in positions of power in order to be able to engage in institutional sexism / racism. That is the problem. That's what highlights the imbalance and that's why defining the difference is actually important... So that the actual discrepancies don't get lost under the nonsensical ideas that black people "can't be" racist and women "can't be" sexist.

Hmmm we appear to have gone full circle. I believe due to years of oppression that neither is possible in the truest sense of the word. However I appreciate the pedant viewpoint on the definition.

[user104658]

Hmmm we appear to have gone full circle. I believe due to years of oppression that neither is possible in the truest sense of the word. However I appreciate the pedant viewpoint on the definition.

Accuracy is not pedantic, especially not when there is a perfectly acceptable term for what you're describing. But yes, we do appear to be going in circles.

[Kizzy]

Accuracy is not pedantic, especially not when there is a perfectly acceptable term for what you're describing. But yes, we do appear to be going in circles.

'a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.'

Seeing as you like dictionary definitions you might like this :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedant

[Northern Monkey]

'a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.'

Seeing as you like dictionary definitions you might like this :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedant

But he is speaking(or typing) common sense.Racism from a position of power is 'institutional racism' any other racism is just plain old racism(by the dictionary definition)
Racism can be experienced by anyone,Institutional racism can only be experienced by someone who has people who hold some kind of power over them.

[user104658]

'a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.'

Seeing as you like dictionary definitions you might like this :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedant

I don't really think anyone who would argue that one person (of any race) making prejudiced remarks to another person (of any other race), with specific referrence to characteristics of that race or utilising racial stereotypes, is "not being racist"... is really in any position to start lecturing others on "common sense" :hehe:

[Kizzy]

I don't really think anyone who would argue that one person (of any race) making prejudiced remarks to another person (of any other race), with specific referrence to characteristics of that race or utilising racial stereotypes, is "not being racist"... is really in any position to start lecturing others on "common sense" :hehe:

prejudiced? yeah I'll go for that. :hehe:

[lostalex]

Not institutional sexism then?...

yes it is, if the woman owns a company, and discriminates against male employees for being male, that is absolutely institutional sexism.

or if we are talking about a school with majority female teachers and male students are treated differently because they are male in that school which has majority females in power, that is institutional sexism.

minorities can still have institutional power, and be an institutional majority.

[Kizzy]

yes it is, if the woman owns a company, and discriminates against male employees for being male, that is absolutely institutional sexism.

or if we are talking about a school with majority female teachers and male students are treated differently because they are male in that school which has majority females in power, that is institutional sexism.

minorities can still have institutional power, and be an institutional majority.

I don't think schools are a good example, schools are not institutions which have historically been the sole premise of Women are they?

[the truth]

Hmmm we appear to have gone full circle. I believe due to years of oppression that neither is possible in the truest sense of the word. However I appreciate the pedant viewpoint on the definition.

oppression where? were not in the middle east. there is no oppression of women in the UK at all. There is however massive oppression of men and especially fathers here and has been for decades.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

EXCLUSIVE: 'Kiss my a**!' Rosie Perez QUITS The View early in heated spat with ABC execs after being forced to apologize over her anger at Kelly Osbourne's racist Latino remark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192848/Kiss-Rosie-Perez-QUITS-View-early-heated-spat-ABC-execs-forced-apologize-anger-Kelly-Osbourne-s-racist-Latino-remark.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailceleb




White privilege is you being forced to apologize when the other person is the one that made the racist comment against your people.

You go booboo you quit that show. From what I hear it sucks anyways.

[the truth]

this is more about the wealth and power of Sharon osbourne

[lostalex]

I don't think schools are a good example, schools are not institutions which have historically been the sole premise of Women are they?

umm, yes they are.

[Niamh.]

:/

[Braden]

That's awful that they made her apologise.

I don't think her reaction was bad at all.

[lostalex]

That's awful that they made her apologise.

I don't think her reaction was bad at all.

yea, Saying that Mexicans should be allowed in this country because they are good at cleaning toilets isn't offensive at all...

ummm, wtf.

put it in context dude, she was talking about donald trumps anti-mexican words, the best she could come up with is that we need them to clean toilets?

of course it's offensive. and there was a latina there when she said it that spoke up right away. rosie perez. and kelly has since apologized because she realized how offensive it was to say.

it's just cringe worthy and offensive...

7AJtYqieHk8

[Braden]

I was talking about Rosie being forced to apologise.

[the truth]

I cantbelieve rosie was forced to apologise , just shows how scared they are of Sharon osbourne

[Headie]

Rosie has QUIT the show D:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192848/Kiss-Rosie-Perez-QUITS-View-early-heated-spat-ABC-execs-forced-apologize-anger-Kelly-Osbourne-s-racist-Latino-remark.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailceleb

[Niamh.]

Rosie has QUIT the show D:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192848/Kiss-Rosie-Perez-QUITS-View-early-heated-spat-ABC-execs-forced-apologize-anger-Kelly-Osbourne-s-racist-Latino-remark.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailceleb

That's disgusting.

[Kizzy]

umm, yes they are.

No they aren't, there are schools for girls and schools for boys but education in the main has been for both sexes.

[Kizzy]

According to the article they hadn't renewed her contract so she was leaving anyway, I suppose this didn't make her want to go back. The 'forced' apology caused a backlash for Rosie so she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't.
I think her support of Kelly was genuine but she was right to say her use of language was unfortunate.