View Full Version : Upvoted for Posting Nazi Propaganda about Migrants on Daily Mail
Samuel.
10-08-2015, 02:42 PM
We Were Upvoted for Posting Nazi Propaganda about Migrants in the Daily Mail
Over the past couple of weeks, @DMReporter and I have been getting more and more aghast by the tone of some of the coverage of the migration in Europe. This is especially apparent in newspaper comment sections where it now seems that literally anything goes.
You can fantasise about how you want to kill them:
http://i.imgur.com/FvazcOh.jpg
You can rejoice in their death:
http://i.imgur.com/mjUxRsS.jpg
Or you can compare them to pests, dogs or filth.. (thanks Katie Hopkins)
http://i.imgur.com/1y7wz77.jpg
So as a social experiment, @DMReporter and I wanted to see what level of support the comments would get if we took some famous pieces of Nazi propaganda and changed the word ‘Jew’ with ‘migrant’. For disclosure, a few of the comments we made were blocked by the Mail’s moderators however most of them made it through.
So here’s the original Nazi quote, the updated comment and how it fared when we put it up”
“In this struggle against Judah, there’s only a clear either/or. Any half measure leads to one’s own destruction. Judah and its world must die if humanity wants to live; there is no other choice than to fight a pitiless battle against the Jews in every form”. The Pestilential Miasma of the World by Robert Ley
http://i.imgur.com/kwHoKUT.png?1
MASSIVELY UPVOTED — this was even the highest rated comment at one stage!
“If the Jew wants to fight, it is fine with us. We have wanted that fight for a long time. There is no room in the world for the Jews any more. The Jew or us, one of us will have to go”. The Jews or Us by Robert Ley
http://i.imgur.com/jaCqKEx.png
UPVOTED!
“The Almighty has never helped a lazy man. He does not help the coward. He does not help a people that cannot help itself. The principle applies here”. Adolf Hitler: Broadcast to the German People On The Winter Help Scheme
http://i.imgur.com/JRYIlwB.png
UPVOTED!
“This battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God,” — Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
http://i.imgur.com/h3GXtCs.png
UPVOTED!
We had four more similar submissions (including Hitler’s famous quote ‘Humanitarian is the expression of stupidity and cowardice’). They were all also highly rated, receiving way more green than red arrows.
At the most recent count, we had a total of 480 up votes (and rising) against 16 down votes, across eight adapted Nazi comments. It seems the migration debate has evolved to a place where even certified hate speech can pass for popular political opinion!
Mashable has produced a fantastic mythbuster about the migrant crisis; but whatever your views on the solution let’s try and remember we’re dealing with people and keep the debate free of hatred!
https://medium.com/@bestofthemail/i-was-upvoted-for-posting-nazi-propaganda-about-migrants-in-the-daily-mail-8996899810b4
it's the daily mail, are you even remotely surprised?
Shaun
10-08-2015, 02:48 PM
oh look!! the bleeding heart brigade are at it again with another thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah humanity sucks
Tom4784
10-08-2015, 02:52 PM
People are ***** and the Daily Mail and their readers are among the worst.
Samuel.
10-08-2015, 03:00 PM
Daily Mail comment section is notoriously awful but this is an all time low, and as much we like to just think "it's the Daily Mail what do you expect", it does represent a portion of the population, and to be at a point where propaganda used by the nazis with jew reworded as migrant is approved by that portion is alarming.
They're just stupid.. extremely, extremely stupid.
Livia
10-08-2015, 03:15 PM
These heroes are exercising their right to "free speech". The Internet gives a platform to the weak the cowardly and the stupid. Almost none of these people would stand up and say that sh1t in person.
Anaesthesia
10-08-2015, 05:07 PM
Daily Mail comment section is notoriously awful but this is an all time low, and as much we like to just think "it's the Daily Mail what do you expect", it does represent a portion of the population, and to be at a point where propaganda used by the nazis with jew reworded as migrant is approved by that portion is alarming.
We are given our beliefs by the media. I think Daily Mail falls just behind the Sun in readership.
What should we fear? What should we stop eating? What do we need to do to make our bodies perfect for the beach?
Kiss my a**e. I'm a pretty smart individual, and I'm perfectly capable of judging for myself how things are.
What do you want? Do you prefer a comfy living where those with the most money will tell you how to think / act? Do you need those gadgets? Do you want your personal data stored in a mega-file for everyone? Do you even know it's happening?
Do you want every High Street to look like the next? Do you like the homogenisation we are going through as a society? Are you even happy being fat, or ridiculed for outdated (!) values? Why can't you just be you?
We have just got back into growing fruit and veg, in making clothes, in recycling things like timber...sure, with the help of the internet to share ideas.
But please don't let the media tell you how your life should be.
And please don't let any of these people manipulate you.
Crimson Dynamo
10-08-2015, 05:25 PM
Hitler was a very skilled orator and could write populist prose so I'm not surprised if you change the subject matter that it still has impact
Not sure what point you are making tho
Anaesthesia
10-08-2015, 05:29 PM
Yes, he was, but he was also heavily publicised. I guess the point I am making is that nobody needs to jump onboard a media frenzy just because it IS a media frenzy, without thinking it through.
Crimson Dynamo
10-08-2015, 05:31 PM
Yes, he was, but he was also heavily publicised. I guess the point I am making is that nobody needs to jump onboard a media frenzy just because it IS a media frenzy, without thinking it through.
No I meant the OP
Anaesthesia
10-08-2015, 05:31 PM
Oh ok :)
karezza
10-08-2015, 05:59 PM
Are you in favour of unlimited, uncontrolled immigration?
Crimson Dynamo
10-08-2015, 06:18 PM
Are you in favour of unlimited, uncontrolled immigration?
Don't ask sensible question :fist:
This is about hating on people to make us feel righteous
Livia
10-08-2015, 07:24 PM
Are you in favour of unlimited, uncontrolled immigration?
No I am not. Neither am I in favour of inflammatory language and wishes of horrendous death on people trying to get here.
Kizzy
10-08-2015, 07:25 PM
Hitler was a very skilled orator and could write populist prose so I'm not surprised if you change the subject matter that it still has impact
Not sure what point you are making tho
The point is we're headed the same way, what happens when those who feel comfortable expressing these extremist views outnumber the 'bleeding hearts'?
James
10-08-2015, 07:54 PM
Internet commenting is often extreme, and is not representative of the wider public's views. People think they can say anything online, often to get a reaction, and they won't be held to account for it.
Look how poisonous Youtube comments or Twitter can be.
Pete.
10-08-2015, 08:01 PM
The Daily Mail is infamous for its readers who leave ignorant posts on a largely unmoderated comment section, I'm not surprised at all
Crimson Dynamo
10-08-2015, 08:06 PM
DM readers dont want illegal migrants coming here and costing us money shock
newsflash - neither does any other country
user104658
10-08-2015, 08:12 PM
DM readers dont want illegal migrants coming here and costing us money shock
newsflash - neither does any other country
There's a pretty big gap between;
"recognising the the UK (and the whole of Europe, let's not forget) has an immigration issue that needs tackled"
And...
"Shoot them! Gas them! Drown them like the dogs that they are!"
Don't pretend you don't know that, LT. Don't pretend to be stupid to further a point. It's never worth it in the long term.
Kizzy
10-08-2015, 08:13 PM
Internet commenting is often extreme, and is not representative of the wider public's views. People think they can say anything online, often to get a reaction, and they won't be held to account for it.
Look how poisonous Youtube comments or Twitter can be.
Yes but the demographic is way different and that's what's scary.
Crimson Dynamo
10-08-2015, 08:17 PM
There's a pretty big gap between;
"recognising the the UK (and the whole of Europe, let's not forget) has an immigration issue that needs tackled"
And...
"Shoot them! Gas them! Drown them like the dogs that they are!"
Don't pretend you don't know that, LT. Don't pretend to be stupid to further a point. It's never worth it in the long term.
and dont pretend to understand how comments online work
how you speak to your mates is not how you speak to your mum
:idc:
user104658
10-08-2015, 08:32 PM
and dont pretend to understand how comments online work
how you speak to your mates is not how you speak to your mum
:idc:
Anonymity makes people feel safe to say what they really think as they really think it. I'm not sure what your point is though. That people only post these things because they feel free to express the toxic bull**** that they otherwise try to keep hidden doesn't really make it any better.
lily.
10-08-2015, 10:01 PM
Internet commenting is often extreme, and is not representative of the wider public's views. People think they can say anything online, often to get a reaction, and they won't be held to account for it.
Look how poisonous Youtube comments or Twitter can be.
True.
Worryingly though, it's the people you hear actually saying this stuff in the real world. I have heard conversations where people say it, and I find that more disturbing. I don't want to live in a country of hate.
I do want the UK to control immigration, but not because I wish death on any of the people trying to get here.
lostalex
11-08-2015, 02:32 AM
such a silly publicity stunt. i can 500 people that would uproot a woman being slapped and chocking on a cock, that doesn't mean they all would do that to a woman though.
they should focus their energy on coming up with a solution to the problem instead of just ridiculing the people that are actually responsible for making policy. if you don't like the policy, come up with a better one. you live in a democracy!
the same people feeling so sorry for the immigrants will also be the first ones complaining about the wages falling because people are willing to do it for less, complaining about losing local culture.
mcdonalds is an immigrant too, but i bet you'd probably protest a mcdonalds opening up on your block forcing out the local burger joint, wouldn't you?
..I agree with James, I think on the internet it's not necessarily that some will say what they really think but more what they think will provoke reaction and negatives will always provoke the most reaction...
..I'm a bit dubious about this as a social experiment type thing though...because if 'shaming/dehumanising' migrants is what is being fed, then doesn't this provoke a similar thing/feeling toward the 'DM reader section of society'...let's 'hate the haters', let's compare their comments to Nazi comments...it's just addressing a negative with another negative surely...
user104658
11-08-2015, 05:42 AM
doesn't this provoke a similar thing/feeling toward the 'DM reader section of society'...
This is a bit of a stretch surely Ammi :joker:. Justice for Daily Mail Internet Commentators! They're human too!
This is a bit of a stretch surely Ammi :joker:. Justice for Daily Mail Internet Commentators! They're human too!
..I'm really not with it this morning TS but hmmmm, not really../a stretch...if 'internet hate' has become a thing then so also has the 'hate of haters'...I mean it all builds hate on hate, doesn't it...don't we see that all of the time, someone is portrayed by the media as a hateful person or a completely negative person..(or a section of society is portrayed as such..)..so hate is directed toward them and then hate is directed toward the haters for their comments..?...
user104658
11-08-2015, 06:39 AM
..I'm really not with it this morning TS but hmmmm, not really../a stretch...if 'internet hate' has become a thing then so also has the 'hate of haters'...I mean it all builds hate on hate, doesn't it...don't we see that all of the time, someone is portrayed by the media as a hateful person or a completely negative person..(or a section of society is portrayed as such..)..so hate is directed toward them and then hate is directed toward the haters for their comments..?...
I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.
user104658
11-08-2015, 06:41 AM
In other words, I think it's wrong to hate people for arbitrary reasons (being female, being black, being gay, being a migrant) but I don't really have a problem hating people - as individuals - for demonstrably being horrible ****s.
I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.
In other words, I think it's wrong to hate people for arbitrary reasons (being female, being black, being gay, being a migrant) but I don't really have a problem hating people - as individuals - for demonstrably being horrible ****s.
..but it doesn't mean that it's actual 'hate' felt because it's 'hate' expressed on the internet, I agree with James about that, I think these are often more things said for reactions so more an 'attention' thing...the things said about migrants are extreme yes, but isn't likening people's comments to Nazi comments also an extreme...?...both extreme negatives....
...tbh I'm not really with my thoughts about this yet so mine is a 'reactionary' thing as well atm but do the migrants seeking refuge really care what is said, does it really effect them whether someone has empathy or whether someone has no tolerance because all that matters to them and will make a difference in their lives are actions and positive actions, whether they be temporary or long term ones...so surely this all just detracts from that..a positive type social experiment would be to see people giving them food/blankets or shelter or whatever...to see them 'humanized' again and to see the focus kept there and not on what people say...
..anyways, I'm going to go away and think about this...
Mystic Mock
11-08-2015, 07:10 AM
No I am not. Neither am I in favour of inflammatory language and wishes of horrendous death on people trying to get here.
You said it for me perfectly Livia.
There's a difference between being against mass immigration and then what these idiots are saying to try and stop it.
The DM comments section is awful but also funny at the same time because they think that a large chunk of the country agrees with this junk.
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 08:54 AM
I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.
True, this word 'hate' is banded about too easily I don't hate those who make those comments in the mail and other areas. It is a shock when you see them there in as much as the mail is seen as the 'average' paper read by 'average' people. It's the normalisation of such extremist language is what I feel is the creeping rot, nobody is shocked or even surprised that people in need would be castigated and vilified for doing nothing but attempting to survive. I'm not surprised in the slightest the term nazi is used regularly to describe these standpoints.
user104658
11-08-2015, 09:20 AM
True, this word 'hate' is banded about too easily I don't hate those who make those comments in the mail and other areas. It is a shock when you see them there in as much as the mail is seen as the 'average' paper read by 'average' people. It's the normalisation of such extremist language is what I feel is the creeping rot, nobody is shocked or even surprised that people in need would be castigated and vilified for doing nothing but attempting to survive. I'm not surprised in the slightest the term nazi is used regularly to describe these standpoints.
Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.
Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."
It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.
Crimson Dynamo
11-08-2015, 09:21 AM
people dont like people taking the piss and i think whilst the bleeding hearts go "oh these poor people" most others think "hang on they are just a bunch of chancers"
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 09:50 AM
Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.
Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."
It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.
Hmm I feel this way too, I thought the comments were screened, you would've thought the mail wouldn't appreciate it's comments section cluttered with hate speech but seemingly it's fine :/
Personally I don't appreciate the 'bleeding heart' comments trawled out every time someone comments on the unsavory remarks either, it perpetuates the norming of the extremist view by attempting to make those opposed to them appear odd ... Is anyone who doesn't feel refugees/asylum seekers/migrants should be shot a bleeding heart or just an average rational person?
Samuel.
11-08-2015, 09:57 AM
"Bleeding heart" is as meaningless of an expression as "sympathiser"
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 10:07 AM
"Bleeding heart" is as meaningless of an expression as "sympathiser"
No it isn't, it has a totally different connotation.
Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.
Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."
It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.
...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..
...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....
Crimson Dynamo
11-08-2015, 10:10 AM
Hmm I feel this way too, I thought the comments were screened, you would've thought the mail wouldn't appreciate it's comments section cluttered with hate speech but seemingly it's fine :/
Personally I don't appreciate the 'bleeding heart' comments trawled out every time someone comments on the unsavory remarks either, it perpetuates the norming of the extremist view by attempting to make those opposed to them appear odd ... Is anyone who doesn't feel refugees/asylum seekers/migrants should be shot a bleeding heart or just an average rational person?
I understand but its kind of the person or mp who can easily identify problems but offer no solutions
Crimson Dynamo
11-08-2015, 10:11 AM
...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..
...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....
no I agree the nazi comparison and the DM exercise is misguided
no I agree the nazi comparison and the DM exercise is misguided
..yeah this is what I'm dubious about, that it seems to be looking at something that's thought to be extreme by using another extremity...
..and an equally negative one if negativity and mindsets are what seem to be the focus...
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 10:21 AM
...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..
...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....
And you know this for certain, nobody is risking death by crossing due to a greater risk of certain death if they stay?
What is becoming increasingly apparent is the dehumanisation and the acceptance of such language and behaviours. Propaganda is a tool used now as it was then, could I see it leading to more extreme violence over time? Yes.
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 10:27 AM
..and an equally negative one if negativity and mindsets are what seem to be the focus...
Far right groups are on the rise across Europe, it's not a negative mindset to acknowledge this.
Crimson Dynamo
11-08-2015, 11:13 AM
Far right groups are on the rise across Europe, it's not a negative mindset to acknowledge this.
Like the rise of womens football
they have been saying that since the 70s
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 11:20 AM
Like the rise of womens football
they have been saying that since the 70s
Good comparison... it's taken 40yrs for some to appreciate it's a 'thing'?
Crimson Dynamo
11-08-2015, 11:20 AM
Good comparison... it's taken 40yrs for some to appreciate it's a 'thing'?
i am more worried about the rise of womens football
:worry:
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 11:25 AM
i am more worried about the rise of womens football
:worry:
Women in football! what's next, letting them in the golf club?....What?!!!! :mad:
Kizzy
11-08-2015, 12:06 PM
Mind you if ( skeksis impersonator) British foreign secretary Phillip Hammond refers to them as 'marauding' it's not hard to see why those commenters feel justified in venting.
user104658
11-08-2015, 12:53 PM
...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..
That's not really the case though, there's a reason that Hitler rose to such power, and a lot of normal German people agreed with the general premise of his message. They had no idea how far it would go, or the horrors that would unfold, but the things that were being put out by the establishment and the German media in the years leading up to WW2 were popular with German citizens.
Extremism doesn't arise over night, it creeps in slowly and steadily. There is a very real comparison to be made. Can all of this be compared to the holocaust and the war? No, of course not. Can it be compared to the early mindsets and propaganda that set the stage for those events? Absolutely.
I'm not saying that it would go the same way even. There are far more safeguards in place and the world is far more connected and so such an extreme and organised outcome is unlikely.
But that doesn't mean it can't be compared. "Comparing" something doesn't mean that it's exactly the same. There are similarities in the mindset. Seeds that shouldn't be ignored or allowed to take root. The entire "never again" mantra is based not just on not letting extreme things happen, but on not becoming complacent... And I think we are in genuine danger of the latter.
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