View Full Version : School children in England 'among the world's unhappiest'...
Schoolchildren in England are among the most unhappy in the world, faring worse than those in Ethiopia, Algeria and Romania, a charity has warned.
English children ranked 14th out of 15 countries for overall life satisfaction, just ahead of South Korea, and scored low for aspects related to their "self" and school, according to research by the University of York in partnership with The Children's Society.
Romania came top, with just one in 100 (1.1%) of 10 and 12-year-olds saying they were unhappy with their "life as a whole", followed by Colombia, where it was one in 50 (2%). In England, one in 14 (7.1%) were unhappy.
The Good Childhood Report 2015, which examined 53,000 children's "subjective well-being" across 15 diverse countries, found levels of unhappiness at school increased with age, with less than half (43%) of year eights in England saying they enjoyed school compared to six out of 10 ( 61%) year six students .
The report also found worrying levels of bullying in English schools, with more than a third of students (38%) aged 10 and 12 reporting that they had been physically bullied in the past month. Half (50%) said they had felt excluded at school.
English girls ranked second lowest for happiness with their body confidence, self-confidence and appearance, rating their satisfaction as 7.3 out of 10 on average. This places them just above South Korea, with a mean score of 7.1. Colombian girls topped the table for body confidence, with an average rating of 9.6, followed by Romania with 9.4.
Matthew Reed, chief executive of the charity, said English schools should be legally required to provide counselling and government funding for children's mental health should be increased.
He said: "It is deeply worrying that children in this country are so unhappy at school compared to other countries and it is truly shocking that thousands of children are being physically and emotionally bullied, damaging their happiness.
"School should be a safe haven, not a battleground."
Whilst the findings do not indicate why children in England feel more unhappy than others, Kevin Courtney, deputy general secretary of the National Union of Teachers blamed poor mental health on the "narrow curriculum" and "exam factories" culture in schools.
Mr Courtney called on the Government to "consider seriously the impact of their policies on children's well-being".
He said: " Children can now expect to be branded 'failures' when barely into primary education, and many of those who undergo high-stakes tests and examinations at all stages of school life experience serious stress-related anxiety."
But a Department for Education spokeswoman said the Government was working hard to tackle the issue of mental health.
She said: "Bullying of any kind is unacceptable and all schools must have measures in place to tackle it. That is why we are providing more than Ł7 million to help schools tackle bullying head on.
"We are also promoting greater use of counselling in schools, improving teaching about mental health, and supporting joint working between mental health services and schools. This will ensure children can thrive both inside and out the classroom."
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/english-children-among-worlds-unhappiest/ar-BBlR1Ne?ocid=spartandhp
arista
19-08-2015, 07:54 AM
They have never had so good
..there are more families struggling and in need than ever but the help/care is not always available because of cut backs, there is a growing amount of primary school children who are being deemed as 'suicidal', there is exposure to social sites/internet which expands bullying beyond the schools, there is more concerned parents because of dangers so less freedom, there are exams (data/statistic exams etc..) from the first school year after Reception...so yeah, never really had it so good and no worry or pressure at all... miserable young people...
arista
19-08-2015, 08:09 AM
..there are more families struggling and in need than ever but the help/care is not always available because of cut backs, there is a growing amount of primary school children who are being deemed as 'suicidal', there is exposure to social sites/internet which expands bullying beyond the schools, there is more concerned parents because of dangers so less freedom, there are exams (data/statistic exams etc..) from the first school year after Reception...so yeah, never really had it so good and no worry or pressure at all... miserable young people...
Yes there are some that go the wrong way.
For example
In Japan some Children Kill themselves
as they are not getting the High Grade
The report also found worrying levels of bullying in English schools, with more than a third of students (38%) aged 10 and 12 reporting that they had been physically bullied in the past month. Half (50%) said they had felt excluded at school.
..'as they are not getting the high grade' just completely ignores and dismisses the issues though...children need to feel safe/secure/confident and have self belief to be able to 'achieve' and if they feel they're underachieving then it's the root cause of that, that is the issue and what needs to be looked at/invested in more...
user104658
19-08-2015, 08:38 AM
Confident kids are shot down from the word go in primary schools so it's entirely unsurprising. They CLAIM to encourage "leadership skills" etc. but it's a straight up lie. They cater to the "average kid" so strongly that the majority end up being totally out of place; brighter kids who could forge ahead are stuck with uninspiring work that bores them, kids at the other end of the scale who are struggling to keep up feel like they are the ones holding everyone back and are embarrassed, and even kids who do fall in the "middle ground" - if they happen to be a bit too chatty or easily distracted then they're punished for that too.
In other words, to thrive in a UK school environment you have to be two things. Average, and quiet. And we wonder why we're currently world leaders in precisely **** all.
Confident kids are shot down from the word go in primary schools so it's entirely unsurprising. They CLAIM to encourage "leadership skills" etc. but it's a straight up lie. They cater to the "average kid" so strongly that the majority end up being totally out of place; brighter kids who could forge ahead are stuck with uninspiring work that bores them, kids at the other end of the scale who are struggling to keep up feel like they are the ones holding everyone back and are embarrassed, and even kids who do fall in the "middle ground" - if they happen to be a bit too chatty or easily distracted then they're punished for that too.
In other words, to thrive in a UK school environment you have to be two things. Average, and quiet. And we wonder why we're currently world leaders in precisely **** all.
...well..not a great promoter of the school system eh Ts..:laugh:..seriously though, you are so, so wrong in all of the schools that I have experience and knowledge of, I mean you couldn't be more wrong but I'm sorry that's been your personal experience and that of anyone you know...
user104658
19-08-2015, 08:43 AM
...well..not a great promoter of the school system eh Ts..:laugh:..seriously though, you are so, so wrong in all of the schools that I have experience and knowledge of, I mean you couldn't be more wrong but I'm sorry that's been your personal experience and that of anyone you know...
If you don't actually have young children in school, I think it's probably hard to see it from an outside perspective. The schools / teachers themselves don't seem to see it at all.
If you don't actually have young children in school, I think it's probably hard to see it from an outside perspective. The schools / teachers themselves don't seem to see it at all.
..I've had young children in school and all through the school system and school is where I spend my school days/work days so really do also see a good perspective from the children/parents/families and school staff...
user104658
19-08-2015, 08:49 AM
..I've had young children in school and all through the school system and school is where I spend my school days/work days so really do also see a good perspective from the children/parents/families and school staff...
Like I said, I don't think the staff actually see it at all... or maybe your school is better than most.
The basic purpose of the UK school system (as the finding of your OP would suggest, with all of the misery) is to create compliant, hard-working cogs for the economy who will essentially do what they are told (by the teachers, by their bosses, by the government) without too much fuss. Schools are not set up to create innovative, creative, free-thinking and happy individuals. If they are, then they are clearly failing badly, because frankly there aren't very many of those around.
user104658
19-08-2015, 08:53 AM
I also feel like it's getting worse. When I was a littl'un in ye olde days of the late 80's / early 90's, yes I was bored out of my tits, but there were far fewer tests and exams to worry about, and more importantly, whilst there was discipline there was none of this punitive pavlovian structured shaming that seems to be so common now, with their bull**** "traffic light systems" and "reward time" for the timid kids who successfully go unnoticed all week.
Like I said, I don't think the staff actually see it at all... or maybe your school is better than most.
The basic purpose of the UK school system (as the finding of your OP suggest, with all of the misery) is to create compliant, hard-working cogs for the economy who will essentially do what they are told (by the teachers, by their bosses, by the government) without too much fuss. Schools are not set up to create innovative, creative, free-thinking and happy individuals. If they are, then they are clearly failing badly, because frankly there aren't very many of those around.
..they are though, that's exactly what their aim...obviously the success differs in schools as well as their are many factors involved in how successful it can be but it's not a 'few and far between'/type success either..right from Reception age, children are involved for much or their day in imaginative play/creative tasks/circle and discussion times/philosophy and yes, definitely free thinking ...obviously free thinking is not rule breaking though so there will always be structure and children need that...
I also feel like it's getting worse. When I was a littl'un in ye olde days of the late 80's / early 90's, yes I was bored out of my tits, but there were far fewer tests and exams to worry about, and more importantly, whilst there was discipline there was none of this punitive pavlovian structured shaming that seems to be so common now, with their bull**** "traffic light systems" and "reward time" for the timid kids who successfully go unnoticed all week.
..you'll have to explain that a bit more..?..
the truth
19-08-2015, 08:57 AM
feminism is yet again to blame for all this....no male teachers at juniors and infants, bias in favour of female kids, a feminist teaching programme based on revisionist history....boys falling miles behind and male suicide at record highs. inadditioon the break up of the family home and no fathers in over 50% of homes makes it even harder for kids to succeed and especially for young boys...hence they fall by the wayside , start boozing , taking drugs, get onto welfare young , its a downward spiral and no one cares and im the sexist bad guy for talking about it, pathetic
user104658
19-08-2015, 08:58 AM
..they are though, that's exactly what their aim...obviously the success differs in schools as well as their are many factors involved in how successful it can be but it's not a 'few and far between'/type success either..right from Reception age, children are involved for much or their day in imaginative play/creative tasks/circle and discussion times/philosophy and yes, definitely free thinking ...obviously free thinking is not rule breaking though so there will always be structure and children need that...
If that is their actual aim then why is it failing so badly? Why are kids getting to their teens / 20's, and even some before they leave primary school, with unprecedented levels of despression, so suppressed and miserable as to make us one of the worst in the world?
the truth
19-08-2015, 09:03 AM
peer pressure is greater than ever too....twitter facebook designer gear all adds enormous pressure, if you haven't got the right stuff youre out in the cold and alienated and bullied too
user104658
19-08-2015, 09:04 AM
..you'll have to explain that a bit more..?..
Well, the school here (and every school in the district) employs a system whereby each child starts the day on "green", moves to "orange" for minor infractions (such as chatting, fidgeting, moaning, not paying attention) or "red" for more serious things (i.e. not the petty stuff aforementioned, things like hitting or bullying). At the end of the week there's "Golden Time" which is basically free play time with lots of equipment / toys. Any day that a child was on Orange means they have to sit out for 10 mins - a Red means they miss the whole thing.
The names are all up on the wall on the coloured backgrounds for everyone to see, and it's also mainly used as a threat ("if you don't do , you'll have to move your name"). Oh yes, forgot to mention, they are forced to move their own name.
[b]The Punitive Pavlovian Structured Shaming System for the Gradual Destruction of Self-Esteem - that would be a better name, and a more succinct summing up of how it works and the effect that it has on children.
If that is their actual aim then why is it failing so badly? Why are kids getting to their teens / 20's, and even some before they leave primary school, with unprecedented levels of despression, so suppressed and miserable as to make us one of the worst in the world?
...I guess it's a bland thing to say and obviously a deeper discussion...but part of it is funding really and wheher a school is given sufficient funding for individual pupil needs/one to one etc..there is obviously some but always, always needing more but it can only happen with the funding for it and it's something that many heads are constantly 'fighting' for...also, it's parents working with schools and knowing schools are very always 'in their child's interest' and that often doesn't happen but some parents don't take on any responsibility themselves for any behavioural issues in schools, when often behavioural issues or lack of concentration etc are things that are 'brought into the school' from the start of the day..it's always, always a 'joint partnership' between family and school and that's the only way that success will happen more...
user104658
19-08-2015, 09:08 AM
feminism is yet again to blame for all this....no male teachers at juniors and infants, bias in favour of female kids, a feminist teaching programme based on revisionist history....boys falling miles behind and male suicide at record highs. inadditioon the break up of the family home and no fathers in over 50% of homes makes it even harder for kids to succeed and especially for young boys...hence they fall by the wayside , start boozing , taking drugs, get onto welfare young , its a downward spiral and no one cares and im the sexist bad guy for talking about it, pathetic
I think there is an issue here in High Schools but I'm not convinced there's an actual selective bias amoungst teachers, rather that the system (the school system, and the entire wider system to be honest) is completely failing to accept that girls and boys learn in different ways. The learning style is the same for all, completely arbitrary, when it's just biological fact that male and female brains are wired differently and benefit from different methods of learning. Men and Women are different. The quest for equality seems to have forgotten that equality does not necessitate homogeny.
..I'll come back to this a bit later if that's ok as I have somewhere to be...
user104658
19-08-2015, 09:17 AM
...I guess it's a bland thing to say and obviously a deeper discussion...but part of it is funding really and wheher a school is given sufficient funding for individual pupil needs/one to one etc..there is obviously some but always, always needing more but it can only happen with the funding for it and it's something that many heads are constantly 'fighting' for...also, it's parents working with schools and knowing schools are very always 'in their child's interest' and that often doesn't happen but some parents don't take on any responsibility themselves for any behavioural issues in schools, when often behavioural issues or lack of concentration etc are things that are 'brought into the school' from the start of the day..it's always, always a 'joint partnership' between family and school and that's the only way that success will happen more...
I completely agree with that, and maybe we've just had bad experiences, but unfortunately the impression we've gotten in practice when trying to be very actively involved is a bit of a roll of the eyes and an impression that we're pestering / stepping on the teacher's toes with our suggestions. A sort of "Thanks but we know what we're doing, go home please" atmosphere.
It's just frustrating, because we were actually fully prepared to home-school and our eldest only went to school because she's extremely social and because she wanted to go. She's made countless good friends and most days she loves it... but under the surface, so far it's just been constant work every day to undo little bits of damage that are being caused along the way.
Funnily enouigh, for our 3-year-old, who is on the Autistic spectrum, we're looking into a local specialist ASD school (one of the best in the country is very luckily right on our doorstep) and when I was reading the information - the relaxed learning structure, the personal tailoring to ability, the selective curriculums, the less rigid routine for those who need it - my immediate reaction was just "This sounds brilliant... it sounds like how ALL primary schools should be??". I guess funding levels make that impossible, though. Which is very, very sad. Systematically breaking our children because there isn't enough money.
rubymoo
19-08-2015, 09:26 AM
I was talking to my daughters the other day about children of today, and i think the problem is quite complex, there a lot of factors to unhappy children in this country and we probably only have to go back 30/40 years and establish were children happier then? And maybe look at some of the other countries and establish what their lives entail to try to understand why our children are so unhappy.
Is their a big drive in these other countries to get mothers to work and children into day care centres?
Do they have everything our children have in these other countries?
Are family at the centre of these childrens lives in other countries?
Are children in other countries given more responsibility regarding family life/helping with family life?
For a child to be happy are their basic needs being met so they can move on to the next level, something as simple as mum/dad not being home when they get home from school especially if they've had a tough day can be really detrimental to a child, i think we have it all wrong in this country and i can put money on the fact that in these other countries where children are happiest they have a parent there at all times to supervise, teach, guide and support their child. This of course is only my opinion:laugh:
rubymoo
19-08-2015, 09:33 AM
I completely agree with that, and maybe we've just had bad experiences, but unfortunately the impression we've gotten in practice when trying to be very actively involved is a bit of a roll of the eyes and an impression that we're pestering / stepping on the teacher's toes with our suggestions. A sort of "Thanks but we know what we're doing, go home please" atmosphere.
It's just frustrating, because we were actually fully prepared to home-school and our eldest only went to school because she's extremely social and because she wanted to go. She's made countless good friends and most days she loves it... but under the surface, so far it's just been constant work every day to undo little bits of damage that are being caused along the way.
Funnily enouigh, for our 3-year-old, who is on the Autistic spectrum, we're looking into a local specialist ASD school (one of the best in the country is very luckily right on our doorstep) and when I was reading the information - the relaxed learning structure, the personal tailoring to ability, the selective curriculums, the less rigid routine for those who need it - my immediate reaction was just "This sounds brilliant... it sounds like how ALL primary schools should be??". I guess funding levels make that impossible, though. Which is very, very sad. Systematically breaking our children because there isn't enough money.
My daughter has a diagnosis of ASD, she goes to a mainstream school that has a unit attached for children with ASD, she is integrated into mainstream school and lucky for her has all the support for the ERC should she need it.
When she was 3 the head of the nursery school wanted me to choose a special school for my daughter, i was furious and dug my heels in as i wanted her to be mainstream, she had a statement of education in place and after a lot of fighting, tears (all mine!) i finally got what i wanted (and what i thought was best for my daughter) and i can say she has thrived, and doing really well, look into other schools and go with your gut.
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 09:45 AM
My kids had a similar structure TS describes, 'golden time' and such. My daughter was told not to raise her hand in class to ask questions... don't ask questions... while the teacher was talking.
Quiet, subdued little proles are the order of the era.
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 09:52 AM
My son has DCD ( developmental co-ordination disorder) and a dx of ADHD he was regularly offered ritalin during his primary years ( which I declined everytime) they attempted to knock the corners of him at school and it worked.... he was bullied by both students and staff all through school for being different.
I can well understand why kids hate school if they can't conform.
arista
19-08-2015, 10:43 AM
My son has DCD ( developmental co-ordination disorder) and a dx of ADHD he was regularly offered ritalin during his primary years ( which I declined everytime) they attempted to knock the corners of him at school and it worked.... he was bullied by both students and staff all through school for being different.
I can well understand why kids hate school if they can't conform.
He needs a Drum Kit
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 10:54 AM
He needs a Drum Kit
He needs one of those like I need another hole in my a*se.
kirklancaster
19-08-2015, 11:03 AM
He needs a Drum Kit
:laugh:
kirklancaster
19-08-2015, 11:03 AM
He needs one of those like I need another hole in my a*se.
:laugh::laugh:
rubymoo
19-08-2015, 11:09 AM
My nephew was suffering bullying at school - he was given a red card to get him out of class if he felt overwhelmed or if he felt threatened, this red card just gave him an excuse to use it as and when he felt like it, he could then go to student services get a cup of tea and a biscuit and play on the playstation to calm him down, fast forward to GCSE exams and he pretty much failed them all, not one member of staff dealt with his situation, he was pretty much set up to fail by being given a red card, because of the lack of structure and boundaries both in his home life and at school, he is now 18, has contemplated suicide, been on anti depressants, he has no aims or aspirations for the future and is in a very dependent relationship with his girlfriend (him being dependent), i worry for him and his future, and many people looking from the outside in would say that he is a kid/young adult who has been given everything (but in my opinion being on the inside, the one thing he hasn't had is safety and security, both in his home life and school life).
rubymoo
19-08-2015, 11:11 AM
And don't even get me started on the vivo reward system......!
user104658
19-08-2015, 12:04 PM
And don't even get me started on the vivo reward system......!
All Reward / Praise / Exclusion / Punishment systems are pretty widely accepted in the psychology community as being absolutely awful ways to teach humans anything at all. They work well for dogs, and highly unintelligent / unimaginative people.
And yet schools across the country seem to be absolutely obsessed with using these sorts of systems.
You can't even "opt out" (we asked...) because apparently that would "be confusing for the other kids". I don't think it's socially acceptable to point out that I don't give a stuff about other people's kids :shrug:. So as it stands we just massively undermine the system with our daughter by laughing about it and making fun of it. She has a traffic light system in her room with her teacher's name as the sticker, and at the end of the day she gets to decide if the teacher was well behaved or not :joker:.
I completely agree with that, and maybe we've just had bad experiences, but unfortunately the impression we've gotten in practice when trying to be very actively involved is a bit of a roll of the eyes and an impression that we're pestering / stepping on the teacher's toes with our suggestions. A sort of "Thanks but we know what we're doing, go home please" atmosphere.
It's just frustrating, because we were actually fully prepared to home-school and our eldest only went to school because she's extremely social and because she wanted to go. She's made countless good friends and most days she loves it... but under the surface, so far it's just been constant work every day to undo little bits of damage that are being caused along the way.
Funnily enouigh, for our 3-year-old, who is on the Autistic spectrum, we're looking into a local specialist ASD school (one of the best in the country is very luckily right on our doorstep) and when I was reading the information - the relaxed learning structure, the personal tailoring to ability, the selective curriculums, the less rigid routine for those who need it - my immediate reaction was just "This sounds brilliant... it sounds like how ALL primary schools should be??". I guess funding levels make that impossible, though. Which is very, very sad. Systematically breaking our children because there isn't enough money.
…obviously I don’t know what your actual conversations and suggestions have been so can’t comment on that but in my experience, there is nothing that a school encourages more than a parent taking an interest and also becoming actively involved in lessons on a voluntary basis if that’s possible, with work commitments etc, I know that it sometimes isn’t though…but again that’s ‘working together’, which really is only going to improve a child’s happiness at school….whether it be pupils/parents/students gaining work experience etc, a school is a caring and nurturing environment and ideas and suggestions are usually something that are very much listened to and welcomed from everyone..I’m sorry that with you personally, there has not been the communication that you felt there should be…ideas and suggestions though obviously have to be right for many individual personalities in a classroom/school though so may not always be something that could be possible….maybe spending time at your daughter’s school/in her class would be something that would be a good idea..?..or thinking of becoming a School Governor there would be a great thing..?..in any case though, you shouldn’t feel as though you’ve been met with ‘rolling eyes’ and I personally (if I had any issues..)..wouldn’t accept that and speak to the head teacher ..or maybe even, the Chair of Governor’s if I felt that was appropriate…but you say that your daughter has many friends, seems a happy child..?..and that most days she loves school so is that not really saying a general ‘school system positive’, with maybe just a bit better communication required on some things that you feel less happy about…
...with your youngest daughter, it’s a good thing that she has been diagnosed so young as many parents often struggle to get a diagnosis for their children and this is a huge problem and those are really (in the system), the more ‘lost children’ and struggling families…a diagnosis means funding/extra help/extra specific resources etc and meeting a child's needs… so always a good thing…obviously you have a choice in which school she goes to…the reason that specialist schools can provide more is just that really, they’re ‘specialist’ so geared and resourced up obviously in a way that a mainstream school wouldn’t be and obviously much smaller classroom sizes as well…we have two really great ones locally and I think the staff ratio being funded in them is for 1-5 children, which is something that just can’t happen in a mainstream school..for instance, if specific training was required for a child in a mainstream school like de-escalating training..?..then probably 4/5 staff at that school would have funding for that training, whereas in specialist schools, virtually every member of staff will be fully trained in most things because they are ‘specialist’…we also have some referral/education units not too far away with classroom sizes as small as 5-10 children, so yeah, some great advantages there…but many parents also prefer to have their child at a mainstream school even with the larger classroom sizes because that also offers so much to the child as well… /it really is down to the individual child’s needs and what the parent feels is right for them and what you would feel is right for your daughter….
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest lmao
Schools are just exam factories
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest lmao
Schools are just exam factories
..yea, far too many Cal and so much pressure on young people with them...
JoshBB
19-08-2015, 12:22 PM
Probably because how the education system is so geared around getting a qualification and not actually learning the subject, leaving people to feel like they've 'failed' if they dont get what they wanted.
arista
19-08-2015, 12:44 PM
He needs one of those like I need another hole in my a*se.
a Electric Drum Pad kit with headphones
would not disturb you
arista
19-08-2015, 12:45 PM
https://jimatwood.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/roland-hd1.jpg
Example Roland
rubymoo
19-08-2015, 01:02 PM
All Reward / Praise / Exclusion / Punishment systems are pretty widely accepted in the psychology community as being absolutely awful ways to teach humans anything at all. They work well for dogs, and highly unintelligent / unimaginative people.
And yet schools across the country seem to be absolutely obsessed with using these sorts of systems.
You can't even "opt out" (we asked...) because apparently that would "be confusing for the other kids". I don't think it's socially acceptable to point out that I don't give a stuff about other people's kids :shrug:. So as it stands we just massively undermine the system with our daughter by laughing about it and making fun of it. She has a traffic light system in her room with her teacher's name as the sticker, and at the end of the day she gets to decide if the teacher was well behaved or not :joker:.
The reward systems are a pile of ****e!
I agree with you completely and your post made me smile as it was as if i'd written it myself:laugh: i too have asked if my children can be withdrawn from the reward system as it's geared towards the disruptive, badly behaved students or those who are at the top of the class, since my girls are in the middle, and well behaved the system completely ignores them, it's like having a reward chart for toddlers aimed at teenagers, so i have had to go down the path of ridiculing it and rewarding my girls myself for their hard work, which is a lot more age appropriate and it works as my girls continue to work hard at school and get the grades they have worked for, one of my daughters rewards was a skive day at the end of summer term, i took her bowling and out for a meal, we had proper together time and i know that my approach is a reward worth working hard for:smug:
kirklancaster
19-08-2015, 01:06 PM
https://jimatwood.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/roland-hd1.jpg
Example Roland
Both my sons had/have drum kits and guitars and microphone systems and now play and sing in in a band. My daughter also sings.
The racket was deafening at times - especially when their mates were sleeping over and brought their guitars, but I was just happy that all my kids were happy.
the truth
19-08-2015, 01:10 PM
My nephew was suffering bullying at school - he was given a red card to get him out of class if he felt overwhelmed or if he felt threatened, this red card just gave him an excuse to use it as and when he felt like it, he could then go to student services get a cup of tea and a biscuit and play on the playstation to calm him down, fast forward to GCSE exams and he pretty much failed them all, not one member of staff dealt with his situation, he was pretty much set up to fail by being given a red card, because of the lack of structure and boundaries both in his home life and at school, he is now 18, has contemplated suicide, been on anti depressants, he has no aims or aspirations for the future and is in a very dependent relationship with his girlfriend (him being dependent), i worry for him and his future, and many people looking from the outside in would say that he is a kid/young adult who has been given everything (but in my opinion being on the inside, the one thing he hasn't had is safety and security, both in his home life and school life).
boys need a combination of structure and discipline as well as play time...they learn totally differently to girls ...but were not allowed to say that by the sick evil feminazis and the politically correct psychos of new labour....hence record male suicides in young men. its a farking national disgrace
armand.kay
19-08-2015, 01:17 PM
Schoolchildren in England are among the most unhappy in the world, faring worse than those in Ethiopia, Algeria and Romania, a charity has warned.
bye..
user104658
19-08-2015, 01:39 PM
bye..
Happiness beyond the basic needs such as food, water, shelter and companionship is really not linked to wealth at all so there is absolutely no reason to assume that just because a country is "poorer", its people aren't happier.
Some people live very happy, content lives almost completely "off the grid" with no material wealth at all. Some very rich people are so miserable that they take their own lives before they hit middle age.
The UK is a miserable place. People have miserable, materialistic priorities here. That's pushed by parents, in schools, and by the government every day... trying to convince us all from the age of 5 that the ultimate goals in life are "good grades", for "good jobs" and then "plenty of money" (and then supposedly you will be happy). When you combine that with crappy weather conditions that stop people from getting back to any sort of natural state at all, then no, it's not surprising that we're an unhappy nation at all.
JoshBB
19-08-2015, 01:45 PM
Happiness beyond the basic needs such as food, water, shelter and companionship is really not linked to wealth at all so there is absolutely no reason to assume that just because a country is "poorer", its people aren't happier.
Some people live very happy, content lives almost completely "off the grid" with no material wealth at all. Some very rich people are so miserable that they take their own lives before they hit middle age.
The UK is a miserable place. People have miserable, materialistic priorities here. That's pushed by parents, in schools, and by the government every day... trying to convince us all from the age of 5 that the ultimate goals in life are "good grades", for "good jobs" and then "plenty of money" (and then supposedly you will be happy). When you combine that with crappy weather conditions that stop people from getting back to any sort of natural state at all, then no, it's not surprising that we're an unhappy nation at all.
I think this is a well-worded and accurate post. Due to the society we grow up in, an element of materialism and strive for a 'well-paying' job is almost necessary especially since we fail to take care of the most vulnerable, the disabled, homeless, and unemployed. We see that as "what happens if you dont succeed" and it leads to a kind of win or die mentality, if that's the right way to phrase it.
Cherie
19-08-2015, 01:58 PM
Happiness beyond the basic needs such as food, water, shelter and companionship is really not linked to wealth at all so there is absolutely no reason to assume that just because a country is "poorer", its people aren't happier.
Some people live very happy, content lives almost completely "off the grid" with no material wealth at all. Some very rich people are so miserable that they take their own lives before they hit middle age.
The UK is a miserable place. People have miserable, materialistic priorities here. That's pushed by parents, in schools, and by the government every day... trying to convince us all from the age of 5 that the ultimate goals in life are "good grades", for "good jobs" and then "plenty of money" (and then supposedly you will be happy). When you combine that with crappy weather conditions that stop people from getting back to any sort of natural state at all, then no, it's not surprising that we're an unhappy nation at all.
:clap1: add to that celeb culture, addiction to social media and hang on so called celebs every move it's no wonder kids are discontented
user104658
19-08-2015, 02:02 PM
:clap1: add to that celeb culture, addiction to social media and hang on so called celebs every move it's no wonder kids are discontented
Yeah social media is a big factor really, people cherry picking and exaggerating the best parts of their lives to share with everyone whilst for the mostpart leaving out the less good things that balance it out... The effect being that EVERYONE ends up thinking that everyone else's lives are better than theirs. Facebook bragging is a bit of a pet-peeve of mine.
billy123
19-08-2015, 02:07 PM
Tom does always seem a bit moany :joker:
arista
19-08-2015, 02:17 PM
Both my sons had/have drum kits and guitars and microphone systems and now play and sing in in a band. My daughter also sings.
The racket was deafening at times - especially when their mates were sleeping over and brought their guitars, but I was just happy that all my kids were happy.
Yes Kirk old days
Now With Electric Drum kits
they have a headphone socket
kirklancaster
19-08-2015, 03:10 PM
Reading some of the threads on here lately about how terrible a race the Brits are and what a dreadful place this really is, has me wondering just why so many immigrants want to come here. :shrug:
the truth
19-08-2015, 03:29 PM
1) becausetheyre in war zones
2) because we speak English
30 BECAUSE OF OU BENEFITS SYSTEM
the truth
19-08-2015, 03:29 PM
1)
BENEFITS
the truth
19-08-2015, 03:31 PM
to escape war
we SPEAK ENGLISH
benefits
soft legal system
then they arrive and see uk isn't all that
empire
19-08-2015, 06:27 PM
intruth, what do school leavers, get after. leaving school, nothing but useless exams, and teachers fed them with false crap about getting the job before they are eighteen, schools have made kids do far to much coursework, when I was doing trainee work, the amount of paperwork for pay every week and reporting my hours at work was a joke, parents obsession with trying to label their children with conditions that might not even exist, will end up only making them have a disadvantage in life, britains education system needs badly reformed, the teachers union, has to much control, and with it, you will have corruption, and alot of unhappy kids,
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 06:39 PM
Hmmm with some kids it's a wonder teachers here aren't the unhappiest in the world too they get the blame for far too much, they didn't design the curriculum and I would bet if they had their way they would scrap it.
I feel education is being dumbed down, kids leaving able to function on paper but not in practice, even with the most basic sentence structure.
AnnieK
19-08-2015, 06:40 PM
I'm so glad my son is starting school in 2 weeks after reading this thread :laugh:
user104658
19-08-2015, 07:31 PM
Reading some of the threads on here lately about how terrible a race the Brits are and what a dreadful place this really is, has me wondering just why so many immigrants want to come here. :shrug:
Number one reason Truth actually got right in his rambling, but no it's not benefits, it's that if they speak any language at all other than their own (even if it's only a little) - that language is usually English - and so it's much easier for them to exist here than in other European countries.
Second reason is most probably that they have an idealised version of what it's like here told to them before they come...
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 09:15 PM
I'm so glad my son is starting school in 2 weeks after reading this thread :laugh:
Another brick in the wall... jk bless him, hope he loves it :)
the truth
19-08-2015, 10:53 PM
I couldn't tell one tedious student from another theses days, most of the graduates ive met in recent years can only be described as morons
each is phone obsessed text obsessed self obsessed , theyre a tedious homgenized egotist bunch of bores. none have any practical skills, how many can re wire anything, rebuild anything, would any know one end of a track rod end from another? how many could even change a fuse? in fact many cant even count properly? yet everyone has straight A plusses in everything, otherwise they claim they've been abused
joeysteele
19-08-2015, 11:20 PM
Hmmm with some kids it's a wonder teachers here aren't the unhappiest in the world too they get the blame for far too much, they didn't design the curriculum and I would bet if they had their way they would scrap it.
I feel education is being dumbed down, kids leaving able to function on paper but not in practice, even with the most basic sentence structure.
In my view, the problem with Education in the UK is the endless kicking about with it,the experimentation of this and that as to standards and format of education by politicians.
One govt comes in then sets out to change what the previous one did,for as long as Education is messed about by all govts rather than setting in place an education system that at least has continuity to it, then there will be dissatisfaction across the board.
Let Teachers teach, work with them to come up with a sensible and long term programme as to Education policy, worked out and agreed by all parties in agreement too with all concerned.
Then we may see an Education system that works for all but for me the main thing is to remove it from the political arena and stop this see sawing nonsense of each new govt, feeling the need to muck about and change things when really all that does, is in the end create more problems.
No wonder pupils are unhappy,at times they must wonder what they are doing and for Teachers, it must often be the case that they wonder whether it is worth bothering worrying about the changes each new govt brings in, since it could all likely change again in a few years.
No wonder there is misery,disappointment,unhappiness and even confusion among those being educated in the UK.
They are constantly being failed by all govts and far too often too.
Kizzy
19-08-2015, 11:43 PM
I think with the expansion of free schools I think things will get a lot worse :(
lostalex
20-08-2015, 06:34 AM
as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.
That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.
Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.
kirklancaster
20-08-2015, 06:49 AM
In my view, the problem with Education in the UK is the endless kicking about with it,the experimentation of this and that as to standards and format of education by politicians.
One govt comes in then sets out to change what the previous one did,for as long as Education is messed about by all govts rather than setting in place an education system that at least has continuity to it, then there will be dissatisfaction across the board.
Let Teachers teach, work with them to come up with a sensible and long term programme as to Education policy, worked out and agreed by all parties in agreement too with all concerned.
Then we may see an Education system that works for all but for me the main thing is to remove it from the political arena and stop this see sawing nonsense of each new govt, feeling the need to muck about and change things when really all that does, is in the end create more problems.
No wonder pupils are unhappy,at times they must wonder what they are doing and for Teachers, it must often be the case that they wonder whether it is worth bothering worrying about the changes each new govt brings in, since it could all likely change again in a few years.
No wonder there is misery,disappointment,unhappiness and even confusion among those being educated in the UK.
They are constantly being failed by all govts and far too often too.
:clap1::clap1::clap1:
kirklancaster
20-08-2015, 06:50 AM
as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.
That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.
Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.
:clap1::clap1::clap1:
Happiness beyond the basic needs such as food, water, shelter and companionship is really not linked to wealth at all so there is absolutely no reason to assume that just because a country is "poorer", its people aren't happier.
Some people live very happy, content lives almost completely "off the grid" with no material wealth at all. Some very rich people are so miserable that they take their own lives before they hit middle age.
The UK is a miserable place. People have miserable, materialistic priorities here. That's pushed by parents, in schools, and by the government every day... trying to convince us all from the age of 5 that the ultimate goals in life are "good grades", for "good jobs" and then "plenty of money" (and then supposedly you will be happy). When you combine that with crappy weather conditions that stop people from getting back to any sort of natural state at all, then no, it's not surprising that we're an unhappy nation at all.
...yes I agree, happiness is not linked to wealth at all, hence as you say, some very rich people take their own lives ..there are also things like mental illness involved there which doesn't recognise 'rich' or 'poor', so that has to be considered as well...but basic things like food, water, shelter etc will only create survival, they won't create thriving or happiness either ..what some and many 'off the grid' people do have is positivity..it's not money or lack of it..'the simple unmaterialistic' life..it's their whole ability of being able to see positives in their lives ...I can only comment on my own experience in primary school level and I have never known any teacher/member of staff who has a thought or teaches that a child's ultimate are good grades, good jobs and plenty of money and that will create happiness for them...what they encourage is for a child to reach the best of their potential, whatever that potential is and that is a positive thing/not a negative thing...
...you say misery, misery, misery is pushed and crappy weather conditions..and that's the reason why it's a nation of unhappy young people..(according to this report..)...well, each year we have a children's African dance group visit our school, some of the 'happiest' children that I've ever met...they have some pretty crappy weather conditions also and their 'misery' is that they have no parents/families because they've lost them in the most brutal circumstances and they've been exposed to the most horrific things in their lives so what could be more 'miserable'.. but they're happy because they're positive..parents don't play a part because they have none..schools don't really play a part because they have the most basic of educations ..their happiness is within themselves, also unhappiness/negativity is within us as well and within them, it's just really what you focus on and what they focus on..all primary schools I know focus on the positive in children..so actually I do think..(and agree with Armand) that it is surprising because comparatively our children are given a good foundation in life to be positive and to believe in themselves...for the most part...funding, well that will always be a thing as it is in lots of areas but I think one thing that is not focused on enough are life skills and coping skills because really a 'healthy mind' will always create reaching full potential and a happy child...
as a child who had way too much access to mental health services as a child, i think all the diagnosis and medication for children can do more harm than good. i feel like the mental health profession actually made my problems worse, not better. labelling a kid as diseased when they are just having problems as a kid or teenager i think is very damaging.
That being said, there are some kids who do have actual mental illness and do need serious help. i don't think the mentall health profession has found a way to really separate the kids who are just struggling from the kids who have serious psychological diseases. unfortunately, we have a system where psychologists want to diagnose everyone with something, because if you go see a psychologist and they say you are fine, it's just something you have to work through, then people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth, so they are encouraged to give everyone a a diagnosis of a disease.
Psychological and psychiatric disorders are way over diagnosed.
..it's actually often quite difficult and a struggle to get a diagnosis on school children here, Alex...
kirklancaster
20-08-2015, 07:34 AM
...yes I agree, happiness is not linked to wealth at all, hence as you say, some very rich people take their own lives ..there are also things like mental illness involved there which doesn't recognise 'rich' or 'poor', so that has to be considered as well...but basic things like food, water, shelter etc will only create survival, they won't create thriving or happiness either ..what some and many 'off the grid' people do have is positivity..it's not money or lack of it..'the simple unmaterialistic' life..it's their whole ability of being able to see positives in their lives ...I can only comment on my own experience in primary school level and I have never known any teacher/member of staff who has a thought or teaches that a child's ultimate are good grades, good jobs and plenty of money and that will create happiness for them...what they encourage is for a child to reach the best of their potential, whatever that potential is and that is a positive thing/not a negative thing...
...you say misery, misery, misery is pushed and crappy weather conditions..and that's the reason why it's a nation of unhappy young people..(according to this report..)...well, each year we have a children's African dance group visit our school, some of the 'happiest' children that I've ever met...they have some pretty crappy weather conditions also and their 'misery' is that they have no parents/families because they've lost them in the most brutal circumstances and they've been exposed to the most horrific things in their lives so what could be more 'miserable'.. but they're happy because they're positive..parents don't play a part because they have none..schools don't really play a part because they have the most basic of educations ..their happiness is within themselves, also unhappiness/negativity is within us as well and within them, it's just really what you focus on and what they focus on..all primary schools I know focus on the positive in children..so actually I do think..(and agree with Armand) that it is surprising because comparatively our children are given a good foundation in life to be positive and to believe in themselves...for the most part...funding, well that will always be a thing as it is in lots of areas but I think one thing that is not focused on enough are life skills and coping skills because really a 'healthy mind' will always create reaching full potential and a happy child...
:clap1::clap1::clap1: Brilliant Ammi. You have no equal when you are really passionate on a subject.
rubymoo
20-08-2015, 07:53 AM
The problem is that children here are too molly coddled, parents are afraid to let them out to play for fear of abduction, children don't want to go out because of all their technology, health and safety has gone crazy so children can't even play proper games on the playground (we are a fearful nation, we live in a suing society), throw into the mix that if such and such has an iphone then they need an iphone, the bullying that is rife in schools and on social media, a lot of children seem to have a poor me attitude - these children i've found usually have no parents at home when they get home from school, so these children just need attention. When a child doesn't have all the lastest stuff they become outcasts, throw into the mix the junk food that they're eating with all the additives, preservatives, sugar, fat and salt content and parents who in some families both of them have to work, and school/nursery starting so early for our children compared to the rest of the world, it's no wonder they are unhappy, in other countries like Africa that Ammi has mentioned, the children are happier because they are all the same, they are as poor as each other, they have experienced the same as each other so are thankful and grateful for their lives, there is no health and safety preventing them from doing things, if they want to climb a tree or play conkers (probably don't have conkers!) but they can, they don't have adults preventing them from exploring their surroundings, they have freedom, they don't have social media so there's no bullying or bragging, the meals they eat are wholesome, fresh and adequate (i know that Africa is a very poor country and a lot of children are malnourished, i'm talking about the children in the areas that are happier, as in the OP), you can bet that these children have no access to McDonalds or Burger King, and in some countries children have a part to play in their families, maybe helping with cooking, farming, looking after siblings etc yet these children are happier, i think happiness comes from being valued and being valid, adults need to understand that children need guidance, support, love, freedom, boundaries, structure, and to feel that they matter, i think we need to get back to basics, but it'll never happen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm
lostalex
20-08-2015, 08:06 AM
..it's actually often quite difficult and a struggle to get a diagnosis on school children here, Alex...
i understand, but i also think there is a big push from certain parents to get a psychological diagnosis, when sometimes, it's just bad parents making the problems. the parents what to find a medical solution to something that is actually a family problem.
I love my parents, but they were bad parents. They were so busy with their careers and making a perfect home, that they never gave me any attention and i felt completely alone. so i acted out to get more attention,. but my parents thought "well we have provided everything for him, how can we be possibly to blame?" and of course when your parents are paying the bills the psychologist agree's with them.
i didn't need medication. i didn't need a diagnosis, i just needed my parents to actually spend time with me, instead of spending all of their time working and planning and setting up[ piano lessons and soccer games, and never actually talking to me, or guiding me. It's like they expected teachers and coaches to do all the guiding, when =actually it was THEIR job to guide me and teach me.
some parents don't realize that their number 1 job is to be a teacher. i just wanted my parents to teach me and i didn't know how to express that to them as a child. i didn't know how to ask them for that. i just knew that i was unhappy. and so i acted out to get more attention from them.
my parents would rather believe that i had a psychological disease and needed medication, than believe that i just wanted them to spend more time with me. it's very sad.
children are Not pets. being a parents is more than just providing a nice house, and good food, and piano lessons, and summer camp and tutors. being a parents is so much more than that. Just providing THINGS is not being a good parent.
The problem is that children here are too molly coddled, parents are afraid to let them out to play for fear of abduction, children don't want to go out because of all their technology, health and safety has gone crazy so children can't even play proper games on the playground, throw into the mix that if such and such has an iphone then they need an iphone, the bullying that is rife in schools and on social media, a lot of children seem to have a poor me attitude - these children i've found usually have no parents at home when they get home from school, so these children just need attention. When a child doesn't have all the lastest stuff they become outcasts, throw into the mix the junk food that they're eating with all the additives, preservatives, sugar, fat and salt content and parents who in some families both of them have to work, and school/nursery starting so early for our children compared to the rest of the world, it's no wonder they are unhappy, in other countries like Africa that Ammi has mentioned, the children are happier because they are all the same, they are as poor as each other, they have experienced the same as each other so are thankful and grateful for their lives, there is no health and safety preventing them from doing things, if they want to climb a tree or play conkers (probably don't have conkers!) but they can, they don't have adults preventing them from exploring their surroundings, they have freedom, they don't have social media so there's no bullying or bragging, the meals they eat are wholesome, fresh and adequate (i know that Africa is a very poor country and a lot of children are malnourished, i'm talking about the children in the areas that are happier, as in the OP), you can bet that these children have no access to McDonalds or Burger King, and in some countries children have a part to play in their families, maybe helping with cooking, farming, looking after siblings etc yet these children are happier, i think happiness comes from being valued and being valid, adults need to understand that children need guidance, support, love, freedom, boundaries, structure, and to feel that they matter, i think we need to get back to basics, but it'll never happen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm
..see, in our school and all local primary schools, children are not allowed things like phones/mobiles and not allowed logos on clothes and for things like schools visits..?...they're not allowed spending money so none will feel 'excluded' in any way and that's the foundation they are given, but these things are more in High Schools and it's a whole environment thing and always was/I don't think it's really changed in that ...there is just more stuff available and more affordable now but isn't that a positive..?../it's not seeing things necessarily as a negative ...
..and I don't think that's it with the children I have met either/the African dance group, that it's because 'none have more'...?..I have spent time talking to some as we always have some stay with us and it really is about their positivity as well, they've had their dark times, horrendously dark times but their positivity comes from their music and their dance/that's how they've 'healed' because they focus on that and not on those dark times...
..with childcare and parents not being at home at the end of the school day, etc..?..well there again, my parents weren't always home when school ended but it didn't matter because it was no indication to how secure and safe I always felt and how loved I felt because they gave all of those feeling to me ...and now we have breakfast clubs/after school clubs etc...so, so many children thrive in those, it's a great environment for them and gives so much social experience..it's not so structured as school obviously, so it gives them something completely different and their friendships expand there...all after school clubs that we run are always over subscribed so many children really do enjoy an 'extension' to their school day ...and being 'valued' etc..?..that's the whole ethos of most primary schools..that 'every child matters'....and encouraged in things that they're interested in or particularly feel they're good at....
i understand, but i also think there is a big push from certain parents to get a psychological diagnosis, when sometimes, it's just bad parents making the problems. the parents what to find a medical solution to something that is actually a family problem.
I love my parents, but they were bad parents. They were so busy with their careers and making a perfect home, that they never gave me any attention and i felt completely alone. so i acted out to get more attention,. but my parents thought "well we have provided everything for him, how can we be possibly to blame?" and of course when your parents are paying the bills the psychologist agree's with them.
i didn't need medication. i didn't need a diagnosis, i just needed my parents to actually spend time with me, instead of spending all of their time working and planning and setting up[ piano lessons and soccer games, and never actually talking to me, or guiding me. It's like they expected teachers and coaches to do all the guiding, when =actually it was THEIR job to guide me and teach me.
some parents don't realize that their number 1 job is to be a teacher. i just wanted my parents to teach me and i didn't know how to express that to them as a child. i didn't know how to ask them for that. i just knew that i was unhappy. and so i acted out to get more attention from them.
my parents would rather believe that i had a psychological disease and needed medication, than believe that i just wanted them to spend more time with me. it's very sad.
children are Not pets. being a parents is more than just providing a nice house, and good food, and piano lessons, and summer camp and tutors. being a parents is so much more than that. Just providing THINGS is not being a good parent.
..yeah, I do see ..I'm sure that your parents actions were always out of love and the belief that they were doing a great job but it's funny how, what is given is not always what is received and sometimes the very opposite thing, really...they wanted you in their life/to make you happy but they wanted other things as well, which made them happy and filled their lives and somehow, it didn't all fit and then it's always going to be the child who feels it most...maybe they set up all of these things, like piano lessons etc because those were suggestions to them...why don't you try/I think this may be good for him..?.../type thing so feeling as lost as you were in a way as well..and so they would just flounder in their confusion as well ...and not able to see it so give you the guidance that you needed and with that guidance, make you believe in yourself....just really sad for all of you, I can see that..if only there was a handbook and if only there was hindsight but there when you need it to be there...beforesight.../at the right time sight....
James
20-08-2015, 09:03 AM
Another view.
England not named world’s second worst nation for child happiness
“England named ‘second worst nation’ for child happiness” - Independent, 19 August 2015. Other outlets, such as the BBC, Independent, Guardian, Mail and Times, reported pupils in England were “among” the most unhappy in the world. The Telegraph made a more restricted claim, that “England’s pupils were ‘unhappier than children in Ethiopia but happier than the Germans’”. These claims all refer to a survey of 10 and 12 year olds in 15 countries, conducted by The Children’s Society and the University of York.
The countries were selected in order to provide a diverse view of children’s well-being in different types of countries. Countries were classified according to a system developed by academics which takes into account different welfare systems. So it tells us how England compares to particular countries deemed different to it, but not how it compares to every other country in the world.
Compared to the 14 other countries in the survey, England’s children were some of the least happy on specific aspects such as their relationship with teachers and self-confidence. On other aspects, such as other people in their family, the local police in their area, and their friends, they ranked between the middle and top out of the 15 countries.
The Independent comments that the research refers to 15 countries in the body of its article. Taken alone though, its headline could be interpreted as meaning England was second worst in the world.
The report doesn’t tell us English pupils were the second most unhappy in the world
The countries selected to take part in the survey were picked in order to study children’s well-being “within different contexts” and so to provide “as diverse a range of countries across as many continents as possible”.
It did this based on a system of classifying countries according to their social welfare, developed by academics. For example, England was picked as a “liberal country”, Germany a “conservative country”, and South Korea an “Asian, productivist welfare state”.
The report tells us how England compares to these other 14 countries, but it doesn’t tell us how England compares to other similar countries (which weren’t included in the research). If we assume that children in similar countries have similar levels of happiness, we can say that England’s pupils were among the most unhappy in the world on certain indicators. But we can’t say that England was the second worst country globally on these indicators.
We can say English children had relatively low satisfaction in terms of relationships with teachers
As widely reported, English pupils were the most likely to have experienced being left out by their classmates in the past month. Though for the children that did experience this, they experienced it less frequently per month than was the case in other countries. They also ranked in the middle of the 15 countries for being hit by another child.
The report notes that just comparing countries’ mean scores for each question has its limitations. For example, children may (due to their culture or language) have a tendency to respond less positively about their well-being in some countries compared to others. So it also identified areas where the happiness of English pupils was particularly high or low compared to their happiness across the survey topics as a whole.
On this basis, children in England were most satisfied with relationships with family members who they didn’t live with, money and possessions, friendships, and local police.
What they were relatively unsatisfied with was relationships with their teachers, their body, the way they look, and their self-confidence.
Pupils’ school experience wasn’t always the worst performing in the rankings: England also came 10th out of 15 for pupils’ opinions on their “life as a student”.
Other pupil surveys suggest English children are happier than average
In 2012, 84% of 15 year olds reported they were happy at school in the OECD’s international PISA survey, compared to an average of 80% in the 34 OECD member countries looked at. This asked more of an overview question about happiness and satisfaction at school rather than the specific aspects asked about in The Children’s Society survey.
https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/claimverdict1.jpg
https://fullfact.org/factcheck/education/england_not_named_second_worst_nation_world_child_ happiness-47334
I'm not sure how much you can trust polls which ask people, basically, 'How do you feel?'
user104658
20-08-2015, 09:11 AM
..see, in our school and all local primary schools, children are not allowed things like phones/mobiles and not allowed logos on clothes and for things like schools visits..?...they're not allowed spending money so none will feel 'excluded' in any way and that's the foundation they are given, but these things are more in High Schools and it's a whole environment thing and always was/I don't think it's really changed in that ...there is just more stuff available and more affordable now but isn't that a positive..?../it's not seeing things necessarily as a negative ...
Children brag, though. Just because they aren't bringing their belongings to school, doesn't mean they aren't telling everyone about the things they've got at home, or the trips they've been on, or the new car their parents have, etc.
Now, that shouldn't really be a problem. Most are probably just excited and want to tell people, they're not trying to make anyone feel bad, it SHOULDN'T make anyone feel bad, people should be able to just be happy for their friends. However, as mentioned earlier, in a nation where "success" is measured by which job you have, how much money you have in the bank, what car you drive and where you went on holiday... there are all sorts of other issues tied up in this materialistic nonsense. The purpose and aim of the school system is completely involved in that lifestyle; kids are packed off to school at 4 / 5 years old for two reasons only.
1) So that their parents can get back into the workplace.
2) To start preparing the kids themselves for the workplace as early as possible.
Methods and standards of care vary across the board, but no matter how "nice" anyone is about it, that's the basics of what's going on. That's the system.
..and I don't think that's it with the children I have met either/the African dance group, that it's because 'none have more'...?..I have spent time talking to some as we always have some stay with us and it really is about their positivity as well, they've had their dark times, horrendously dark times but their positivity comes from their music and their dance/that's how they've 'healed' because they focus on that and not on those dark times...
I think you're right in that it's more about their positivity but the question is, where does that positivity come from? Is it just being glad to be alive, is it just because they have sych horrors in their past to compare it to so they know that life is now so much better? Or is it partly cultural? I would imagine it is. The question, then, being: If these kids manage to be happy becuase they have a positive mindset and outlook on life... then what has gone so wrong here to make it so that children - whilst on the surface not having any of those horrors to contend with - have such a negative mindset?
The answer in my opinion is again, all down to how we define success in our culture. And how completely shallow, materialistic and empty it actually is when you really take a look at it. I wonder if kids maybe instinctually feel this. The mounting pressure to enter a rat-race that is for the vast majority of people, ultimately unfulfilling. And also, yes, as Rubymoo says, there is an element of freedom and responsibility that is completely denied to so many children here. To play outdoors without parents fretting about paedophiles, to climb a tree without being berated for it because they "might fall", to just be allowed to live and explore. Bad things happen, but people are paranoid, and they stifle their children because of that. People in cages are never going to be happy.
..with childcare and parents not being at home at the end of the school day, etc..?..well there again, my parents weren't always home when school ended but it didn't matter because it was no indication to how secure and safe I always felt and how loved I felt because they gave all of those feeling to me ...and now we have breakfast clubs/after school clubs etc...so, so many children thrive in those, it's a great environment for them and gives so much social experience..it's not so structured as school obviously, so it gives them something completely different and their friendships expand there...all after school clubs that we run are always over subscribed so many children really do enjoy an 'extension' to their school day
I understand that this is true as I know there are a lot of kids at my daughter's school who love going to after school club, but I have to add, this sort of goes in with what I was saying above. Kids love this after-school socialisation, even though it is completely supervised, and that's because they don't have adequate socialisation with their peers outside of school otherwise. Their aren't kids in their local area, or if there are, they aren't allowed out to spend time with them, because roads / paedophiles / bears and what not. Clubs and supervised play are better than nothing but they don't compare to the freedom to just be out, with friends, exploring, and really getting to know each other, outside of an organised environment.
...and being 'valued' etc..?..that's the whole ethos of most primary schools..that 'every child matters'....and encouraged in things that they're interested in or particularly feel they're good at....
As for this, I know this is the official line Ammi and I know that you really believe in it, but I have to be totally frank and say... it's close to worthless. It's false. Prescribed, curriculum-mandated "value" that really does at the end of the day just feel quite hollow... it's not the same as being truly respected, given responsibility and valued within a family or community. I guess I wouldn't even really call it "being valued"... "Every child matters because there's an official school pamphlet that says Every Child Matters in it so they must! Quick, find something that little Timmy is vaguely OK at and tell him he's awesome. Tomorrow it's Suzie. I'll print a certificate."
As a nation we treat children as inferior and inconvenient. Embryos that we have to push along into adulthood so that they can become "real people", and then we can give them freedom and respect, rather than appreciating that they already have lives and they need more room to live those lives.
Niamh.
20-08-2015, 09:12 AM
I'd like to know where Ireland is on that list, I would say I'm pretty happy in general with my kids schools
user104658
20-08-2015, 09:19 AM
I'd like to know where Ireland is on that list, I would say I'm pretty happy in general with my kids schools
I would say that the Ireland in general is quite culturally different, more laid-back, kids are allowed to be more free, and also there's a much stronger focus on family.
That might just be me furthering racial stereotypes, though :joker:.
Niamh.
20-08-2015, 09:24 AM
I would say that the Ireland in general is quite culturally different, more laid-back, kids are allowed to be more free, and also there's a much stronger focus on family.
That might just be me furthering racial stereotypes, though :joker:.
:laugh: No you're not wrong, certainly in my area anyway there's a lot of community spirit which is carried on through the school. It's a small-ish village where I live and most of the kids would also do after school activities together etc and there's also alot of parent involvement in both the schools and those activities (sports teams, Scouts etc) It's probably a bit different in the city schools
The only thing that I'm unhappy about is the the fact that 90 something percent of all "state" schools in Ireland are still catholic run and that certainly needs to change
School was never a happy place to be, not even in my day. The majority of children would always prefer to be doing something else than going to school or school work. That's been a pretty normal state of affairs throughout history. Of course the environment will change from area to area, but fundamentally, children are there to learn, and that's not normally all that enjoyable in a class room (although it can be).
Bullying on the other hand has no place in schools, and is something that can and should be wiped out, no debate necessary.
Children brag, though. Just because they aren't bringing their belongings to school, doesn't mean they aren't telling everyone about the things they've got at home, or the trips they've been on, or the new car their parents have, etc.
Now, that shouldn't really be a problem. Most are probably just excited and want to tell people, they're not trying to make anyone feel bad, it SHOULDN'T make anyone feel bad, people should be able to just be happy for their friends. However, as mentioned earlier, in a nation where "success" is measured by which job you have, how much money you have in the bank, what car you drive and where you went on holiday... there are all sorts of other issues tied up in this materialistic nonsense. The purpose and aim of the school system is completely involved in that lifestyle; kids are packed off to school at 4 / 5 years old for two reasons only.
1) So that their parents can get back into the workplace.
2) To start preparing the kids themselves for the workplace as early as possible.
Methods and standards of care vary across the board, but no matter how "nice" anyone is about it, that's the basics of what's going on. That's the system.
I think you're right in that it's more about their positivity but the question is, where does that positivity come from? Is it just being glad to be alive, is it just because they have sych horrors in their past to compare it to so they know that life is now so much better? Or is it partly cultural? I would imagine it is. The question, then, being: If these kids manage to be happy becuase they have a positive mindset and outlook on life... then what has gone so wrong here to make it so that children - whilst on the surface not having any of those horrors to contend with - have such a negative mindset?
The answer in my opinion is again, all down to how we define success in our culture. And how completely shallow, materialistic and empty it actually is when you really take a look at it. I wonder if kids maybe instinctually feel this. The mounting pressure to enter a rat-race that is for the vast majority of people, ultimately unfulfilling. And also, yes, as Rubymoo says, there is an element of freedom and responsibility that is completely denied to so many children here. To play outdoors without parents fretting about paedophiles, to climb a tree without being berated for it because they "might fall", to just be allowed to live and explore. Bad things happen, but people are paranoid, and they stifle their children because of that. People in cages are never going to be happy.
I understand that this is true as I know there are a lot of kids at my daughter's school who love going to after school club, but I have to add, this sort of goes in with what I was saying above. Kids love this after-school socialisation, even though it is completely supervised, and that's because they don't have adequate socialisation with their peers outside of school otherwise. Their aren't kids in their local area, or if there are, they aren't allowed out to spend time with them, because roads / paedophiles / bears and what not. Clubs and supervised play are better than nothing but they don't compare to the freedom to just be out, with friends, exploring, and really getting to know each other, outside of an organised environment.
As for this, I know this is the official line Ammi and I know that you really believe in it, but I have to be totally frank and say... it's close to worthless. It's false. Prescribed, curriculum-mandated "value" that really does at the end of the day just feel quite hollow... it's not the same as being truly respected, given responsibility and valued within a family or community. I guess I wouldn't even really call it "being valued"... "Every child matters because there's an official school pamphlet that says Every Child Matters in it so they must! Quick, find something that little Timmy is vaguely OK at and tell him he's awesome. Tomorrow it's Suzie. I'll print a certificate."
As a nation we treat children as inferior and inconvenient. Embryos that we have to push along into adulthood so that they can become "real people", and then we can give them freedom and respect, rather than appreciating that they already have lives and they need more room to live those lives.
..see, I'm not even going to comment on any of this..(mainly actually just because I can't atm/I'm all typed out..)...but I really do wish that you could spend more time in schools/our school/any school I have visited because athough, like in everything, there is always improvements to be made..(which is why other schools are always visited as well to look at their particular success..)...this is not 'in theory' TS and 'just something to be said'...children are most definitely not taught to be drones but very much encouraged to be themselves and have belief in themselves, whatever their abilities academically... but primary schools cannot do that alone, they can only be part of it with parents and the positivity has to come from them as well....
Kizzy
20-08-2015, 09:58 AM
I didn't have that experience with my son, I moved him on the advice of parent liason from one school to a catholic primary .Things just got worse he was ignored and bullied, his yr5 teacher was forced to apologies to him for calling him a 'baby' due to his handwriting after he admitted this was the reason he wanted to kill himself...
He started high school with the magic level 4 in his SATS, he told his English teacher at high school his SENCO at his last school wrote all his work for him, when he was retested he was a 2C.
So all schools are not cocoons of educational nurturing, I've spoken to lots of parents who have had similar experiences, therefore the 'whatever their ability' part of that was definitely lacking in the schools we've had dealings with.
Niamh.
20-08-2015, 10:00 AM
I didn't have that experience with my son, I moved him on the advice of parent liason from one school to a catholic primary .Things just got worse he was ignored and bullied, his yr5 teacher was forced to apologies to him for calling him a 'baby' due to his handwriting after he admitted this was the reason he wanted to kill himself...
He started high school with the magic level 4 in his SATS, he told his English teacher at high school his SENCO at his last school wrote all his work for him, when he was retested he was a 2C.
So all schools are not cocoons of educational nurturing, I've spoken to lots of parents who have had similar experiences, therefore the 'whatever their ability' part of that was definitely lacking in the schools we've had dealings with.
omg that's shocking Kizzy
user104658
20-08-2015, 10:11 AM
children are most definitely not taught to be drones but very much encouraged to be themselves and have belief in themselves, whatever their abilities academically...
What you mean is that their strengths are identified and focussed on so that they can eventually go into a job / career that focusses on that strength and therefore be a more efficient cog in the machine. It is intrinsically the purpose of curriculum based education... there's no way around that.
If I am wrong, if it is not what schools are trying to do, then the only alternative is that schools are failing miserably in whatever it is they ARE trying to do, because we live in a nation of drones.
Nedusa
20-08-2015, 11:41 AM
ADHD, Tourettes,ODD, OCD, Autism, Aspergers, Dyslexia are just a few of the disorders that seem to have exploded in numbers among adolescents.
Is it any wonder most are unhappy or depressed if they have to put up with any of the above.
In fact is it not strange just how many youngsters now seem to be afflicted by these disorders to one degree or another.Maybe there is more pollution in the air than we know or the food we buy now is not as healthy as we may think.
Either way I don't remember hardly any children in my youth being affected by all these disorders.
Food for thought ??
Niamh.
20-08-2015, 11:51 AM
ADHD, Tourettes,ODD, OCD, Autism, Aspergers, Dyslexia are just a few of the disorders that seem to have exploded in numbers among adolescents.
Is it any wonder most are unhappy or depressed if they have to put up with any of the above.
In fact is it not strange just how many youngsters now seem to be afflicted by these disorders to one degree or another.Maybe there is more pollution in the air than we know or the food we buy now is not as healthy as we may think.
Either way I don't remember hardly any children in my youth being affected by all these disorders.
Food for thought ??
Most of those conditions only got a name in recent years though so maybe the kids that may have had those conditions years ago were just written off as troublesome or stupid
..there was a time back in the day Nedusa when females were sent to asylums to spend their days because they suffered from PMT/Post Natal Depression etc ...it just was thought to be 'madness' instead but these things have always existed...
lostalex
20-08-2015, 12:09 PM
my sister is a teacher, and they have segregated classes if the parents choose, and my sister tells me the girls always do better in the all girls classes, and the boys always do worse in the all boys classes.
'
personally i don't believe in segregating anyone based on sex or gender or race, but, it does seem to be a statistical fact that girls do better in all girls classes and boys do worse.
If i had a girl i would put her in an all girl class.
Nedusa
21-08-2015, 07:41 AM
..there was a time back in the day Nedusa when females were sent to asylums to spend their days because they suffered from PMT/Post Natal Depression etc ...it just was thought to be 'madness' instead but these things have always existed...
I take your point that a lot of these disorders were not known about or identified but still there does seem almost like an explosion of these disorders in recent years affecting younger people mainly.
Not sure why perhaps it does have something to do with the lack of resistance to dirt,germs etc perhaps this ties in with the rise in childhood allergies from nuts to pollen etc
Either way children now have a dizzying array of ailments and disorders to choose from. I certainly think this adds to the general level of unhappiness felt by this current generation.
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