If you can/could vote in Labour leadership election..

[JoshBB]

..who would you vote for? Please base this on which candidate you feel would be best as prime minister, with chance of election & party bias not included. You can include reasons if you'd like to, I would be interested to know.

This may help for those not knowing a lot about the contenders (I didn't til I did some research) - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/aug/13/labour-leadership-candidates-comparison-burnham-cooper-corbyn-kendall

My preferences (since Labour uses the instant run-off method)

1) Jeremy Corbyn - talented public speaker, is great with uniting people for the same cause, policies are common sense, political experience, always been on the right side of history (eg. his arrest for protesting apartheid in 1980s). I also feel he isn't ignoring young people as most politicians are, and he's also very anti-establishment. EU reform is also something I look forward to. Also trust that he will tackle tax avoidance at last, and raise tax for big companies while lowering it for newer smaller ones.

2) Andy Burnham - slightly too new-labour for me, although he does promise renationalisation of railways which is much needed. He seems to have regretted abstaining from voting against austerity which is good, I hope he remembers Labour's values in the future.

3) Yvette Cooper - I am not really a big fan. Yvette is wayy too politiciany for me, and the way she imitates populist demands even though it is against her own principles angers me. Particularly how she defended tax credit cuts at one point and how she imitated the tories' immigration policies.

4) Liz Kendall - I mean, come on... she stole UKIP's "australian point-style immigration system" and quoted it word-for-word in the hustings. She speaks better than Burnham & Yvette at times, but her policies are not good. Everything is pretty much a conservative manifesto watered down. She would be a nightmare for Labour imo.

[Will.]

Is the female one still in the running?

[Pete.]

1) Jeremy
2) Liz
3) Andy
4) Yvette

[arista]

Jeremy Corbyn


The Voting is now Closed
its just going through the the Mega lists for JC.


One left winger Jeremy Hardy (comedian) [ his last party was Green]
voted for JC
but Harmen blocked his vote?

[Daniel-X]

1. Jeremy
2. Andy
3. Yvette
4. Liz

[Daniel-X]

Is the female one still in the running?

Liz Kendall and Yvette Cooper are in the running.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be honest they are all utterly appalling

But at least Corbyn is not a total pandering pc gorn mad lilly livered metrosexual wet weekend loser like the other 3

What labour need is Nicola Sturgeon

it is that simple

[JoshBB]

To be honest they are all utterly appalling

But at least Corbyn is not a total pandering pc gorn mad lilly livered metrosexual wet weekend loser like the other 3

What labour need is Nicola Sturgeon

it is that simple

They made a big mistake refusing coalition with SNP, and especially when Miliband said "I'd rather not be in power".. which probably wins the most idiotic statement of the century award.

Corbyn is really something different though which is whats needed

[JoshBB]

Jeremy Corbyn


The Voting is now Closed
its just going through the the Mega lists for JC.


One left winger Jeremy Hardy (comedian) [ his last party was Green]
voted for JC
but Harmen blocked his vote?

Wouldn't be surprised. I literally hate her so much since she became acting leader, there are some conservatives & UKIPs I like more than her..

[hijaxers]

Deffo Jeremy Corbyn - I like the cut of his jib

[joeysteele]

I can vote in this but have yet to decide.
I will watch them on the 3rd Sept in a debate being held then and make my mind up.

Andy Burnham is still my first choice,Yvette and Jeremy will be my 2nd and 3rd,(not sure which way round), preferences if I decide to vote for Andy.
Only Liz Kendall do I dismiss.

For some reason I can actually see a pretty good team coming from Jeremy Corbyn and Andy Burnham,of course Andy cannot be his Deputy as an election is going on for that too.
However Andy still in his shadow cabinet or him in Andys,then I can see some success coming about there.

[MB.]

Is the female one still in the running?

For some reason, they let two whole females into the leadership race. Bloody liberals.

(Corbyn)

[JoshBB]

I can vote in this but have yet to decide.
I will watch them on the 3rd Sept in a debate being held then and make my mind up.

Andy Burnham is still my first choice,Yvette and Jeremy will be my 2nd and 3rd,(not sure which way round), preferences if I decide to vote for Andy.
Only Liz Kendall do I dismiss.

For some reason I can actually see a pretty good team coming from Jeremy Corbyn and Andy Burnham,of course Andy cannot be his Deputy as an election is going on for that too.
However Andy still in his shadow cabinet or him in Andys,then I can see some success coming about there.

I've read your posts Joey and I personally wouldn't even put a preference for Yvette. She has no backbone at all. I don't trust her, personally. It's your vote of course and you can do as you wish with it but I don't think she is alligned to your beliefs as much as Andy/Corbyn would be.

[JoshBB]

Also my dad just voted with his online ballot. He did first preference Corbyn and filled in no others, he only wants corbyn.

For deputy leadership he wasn't as excited about candidates but he put Angela Eagle first, and then Tom Watson.

[joeysteele]

I've read your posts Joey and I personally wouldn't even put a preference for Yvette. She has no backbone at all. I don't trust her, personally. It's your vote of course and you can do as you wish with it but I don't think she is alligned to your beliefs as much as Andy/Corbyn would be.

I agree with what you say,I am more likely to go for Andy and Jeremy.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/22/18/2B94BD5200000578-0-image-a-2_1440264785265.jpg
2020

[Brother Leon]

Corbyn simply, because it would be nice to see someone mix it up abit :laugh:

[JoshBB]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/22/18/2B94BD5200000578-0-image-a-2_1440264785265.jpg
2020

i am actually obsessed with him lol

last I hear, burnham decided he wants to scrap tuition fees (and replace it with graduate tax) in an attempt to imitate Corbyn's hype :laugh:

[MTVN]

Kendall is the one who could broaden the party's appeal the most and reclaim the centre ground but Cooper is the one who is most capable of reconciling the broad church that is Labour and taking forward a united party; she has the right combination of experience, temperament and intelligence.

Have been very unimpressed by Burnham, has reeked of desperation in flip flopping so frequently on his principles. Not gonna bother getting into Corbyn but he wouldn't make my ballot if I was a Labour member.

[BB4fan]

Corbyn's an apologist for the IRA.

[JoshBB]

Corbyn's an apologist for the IRA.

No he isn't. He said that one thing that Blair did right was negotiating with the IRA, which sounds bad, but if it never happened then we probably would still have their bombs going off today.

I believe he said something in an interview like: "In politics you have to make agreements with people you profoundly disagree with."

You can have different opinions on which candidate you like best, but seriously making things up is really pathetic and to suggest Corbyn is some form of terrorist associate is completely inappropriate.

[Northern Monkey]

Burnham for me.I actually agree with some of Corbyns ideas but fear he would scrap Trident,Leave Nato,Leave the country pretty much defenceless and not put any controls on immigration.The safety of a country's citizens should come first for me.

[JoshBB]

Burnham for me.I actually agree with some of Corbyns ideas but fear he would scrap Trident,Leave Nato,Leave the country pretty much defenceless and not put any controls on immigration.The safety of a country's citizens should come first for me.

I think he said somewhere that he would divest trident funds into extra border security, police, and an army that "actually defends" as he put it.

I mean, nuclear weapons aren't really defense. They're offense (in my opinion at least) since if your country is invaded where would you fire them? At yourselves? At the country that is invading? What's the use when they already got here?

[Northern Monkey]

I think he said somewhere that he would divest trident funds into extra border security, police, and an army that "actually defends" as he put it.

I mean, nuclear weapons aren't really defense. They're offense (in my opinion at least) since if your country is invaded where would you fire them? At yourselves? At the country that is invading? What's the use when they already got here?

Nukes help to prevent war.The UK and France are the only European countries to have them.They imo are one reason we are unlikely to be invaded.If it was'nt for nukes there's a chance we would be part of the Soviet Union now.Mutually Assured Destruction has probably stopped us having a third world war by now.

[Denver]

Im not happy with this list but id have to choose Liz Kendall

[Tom4784]

Jeremy Corbyn is the only good choice for Labour. I think he'd potentially be one of the best PMs in years if he was elected at the next elections.

[empire]

labour need to ditch the communist way of thinking in their economy, policy.

[JoshBB]

labour need to ditch the communist way of thinking in their economy, policy.

Which aspects do u think are communist?

[kirklancaster]

Burnham for me.I actually agree with some of Corbyns ideas but fear he would scrap Trident,Leave Nato,Leave the country pretty much defenceless and not put any controls on immigration.The safety of a country's citizens should come first for me.

THIS x 1000%. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

[arista]

No Kirk
Burnham will not win this


JC will outright win with a massive amount


Life In The City

[joeysteele]

No Kirk
Burnham will not win this


JC will outright win with a massive amount


Life In The City

That is far from assured, I doubt it will be decided on the first run of results and first preference votes.

Once that is the case then it will be down to the 2nd preference votes which really could alter the result considerably,no matter how far ahead anyone may be on the first round of votes.

[joeysteele]

Which aspects do u think are communist?

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

[bots]

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

[arista]

That is far from assured, I doubt it will be decided on the first run of results and first preference votes.

Once that is the case then it will be down to the 2nd preference votes which really could alter the result considerably,no matter how far ahead anyone may be on the first round of votes.


It will be
massive votes for JC
Clear Win

Utter Bliss

[JoshBB]

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

I didn't think there was any, just wanted to see if there was any weight to the claim which there apparently is not.

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

Nationalisation isn't a purely communist idea. I mean, they believe in most industries to be nationalised, whereas Corbyn prefers a mixed style where some are and some aren't.

By your logic, the NHS is a communist behaviour that makes every mainstream party communist?

[joeysteele]

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

I cannot agree.
We had nationalised services before, none of it classed as being done by a communist govt. seriously.

The Labour govt of 1945 to 1951 was in no way communist nor neither of the minority administrations before then either.

I am as far from being of any communist thinking as anyone but even I would now support the nationalisation of the utility services at least.

It is time we woke up to now and the UKs real place in the world,not sit back like little Englanders and think we can rule all as we once believed we did.

It is time services were run by the UK for the good of all its consumers not sold off to make those from other Nations rich and line their own pockets and bank balances.
It is time we accepted we do not know best, that we have at best only fair overall politicians on the whole now.
That we can learn from the rest of the World and not isolate ourselves even more and become even more hated because of what we now stand for.
Reaching out internationally and at home to our own citizens too rather than expecting from and dictatating to all and sundry.
Building up is what we should be striving to do,not bringing down, all in the name of vast profit and wealth, where real caring and working together are thrown out altogether.

We have had in the main capitalist orientated govt. for something like 75 years since the year 1900 and we are still in a mess even now,despite many good runs in govt for the main capitalist party too in all that time.

We have probably in truth, never had a really socialist govt since the 1945 to 1951 period,most Labour govts. since then have just been milder Conservative ones.

With the fullest respect for your view,in my view there is nothing communist about any of that.

[bots]

I beg to differ, the concept of nationalisation is a communist one, implemented by communist parties around the world. The fact that it is taken up by more mainstream parties, doesn't change that basic principle.

[JoshBB]

I beg to differ, the concept of nationalisation is a communist one, implemented by communist parties around the world. The fact that it is taken up by more mainstream parties, doesn't change that basic principle.

Well, then I guess most UK citizens are communists if thats how you define the ideology. You can't drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism, that's one word which if it means having NHS, would theoretically make it a good thing.

I am not a proponent of communism, it does not work imo. If I thought Corbyn was communist then I wouldn't be backing him.

Also just because nationalisation has been used within communist governments (although there haven't been many), doesn't make it that in principle. It's ridiculous. That's like saying because the Nazis used book-burnings, that it makes burning books a nazi concept.. not at all.

[Kizzy]

What if it is, what is it about nationalisation that is so unattractive?
If there is one aspect of communism that is adopted by a democratic govt that works and benefits the state and society as a whole what's the problem?
Are you only listening to the voices of those who demand a slice of the lucrative pie and who object to them not being allowed to monopolise certain sectors or energies, what of the rest of us?

[kirklancaster]

Well, then I guess most UK citizens are communists if thats how you define the ideology. You can't drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism, that's one word which if it means having NHS, would theoretically make it a good thing.

I am not a proponent of communism, it does not work imo. If I thought Corbyn was communist then I wouldn't be backing him.

Also just because nationalisation has been used within communist governments (although there haven't been many), doesn't make it that in principle. It's ridiculous. That's like saying because the Nazis used book-burnings, that it makes burning books a nazi concept.. not at all.

I'm sorry Josh BB, but your argument is 'Strawman'. BitOnTheSlide did NOT "drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism" - he clearly stated that;

"nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government"

which it is.

[JoshBB]

I'm sorry Josh BB, but your argument is 'Strawman'. BitOnTheSlide did NOT "drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism" - he clearly stated that;

"nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government"

which it is.

Okay well, nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government. Yes, that's true. If we're not referring to Corbyn's policies then idk why the communist thing was brought up though if not to say he's a communist.

Unless it's just a little political fun fact :laugh:

[Kizzy]

What would you call a leader who has society over an oil barrel to the energy companies.. who threatens to remove access to free healthcare.. who slaps unfair taxes on the poorest, a fascist?
By the same token as the communist ideology accusation I could suggest Cameron is a fascist due to his....

[erinp5]

I can and did ...Corbyn and Watson .

[billy123]

Corbyn

[billy123]

Okay well, nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government. Yes, that's true. If we're not referring to Corbyn's policies then idk why the communist thing was brought up though if not to say he's a communist.

Unless it's just a little political fun fact :laugh::joker: this is comedy gold. But also a little frightening that some young people think like this.
Josh what is it that frightens you about people working together to build a better society? and how on earth did you manage to equate that to Communism?

[Kizzy]

The right wing assassins are massing...

'The night sky over London was thick with choking black smoke, but in the hellish glow of the flames rising from a myriad burning buildings, the rioters, looters and demonstrators fighting on the city streets could just make out the United Nations helicopter taking Jeremy Corbyn away from 10 Downing Street to his retirement cottage in Ireland.
Not for him the Prime Minister’s Jaguar in which his hated Mrs Thatcher had departed on the night she, too, was deposed. All Government cars had long since been sold in a desperate bid to pay off the £3 trillion National Debt, after the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the European Central Bank had refused to hand a bankrupt, basket-case Britain any more emergency loans.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3207363/Prime-Minister-Corbyn-1-000-days-destroyed-Britain-brilliant-imagining-Corbyn-premiership-reveals-Tories-gloat-Labour-s-woe-careful-wish-for.html

[bots]

What if it is, what is it about nationalisation that is so unattractive?
If there is one aspect of communism that is adopted by a democratic govt that works and benefits the state and society as a whole what's the problem?
Are you only listening to the voices of those who demand a slice of the lucrative pie and who object to them not being allowed to monopolise certain sectors or energies, what of the rest of us?

I actually have no issue with things being nationalised, but it should be for the right reasons. I think I'm one of the only posters in this thread who has admitted to living through times when industries were nationalised, and I can't help but feel looking at contributions to the thread that it is seen as some magical solution to current ills. I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but nationalising something in itself does not cure it of its inherent issues, It never has, and it never will.

[Kizzy]

I actually have no issue with things being nationalised, but it should be for the right reasons. I think I'm one of the only posters in this thread who has admitted to living through times when industries were nationalised, and I can't help but feel looking at contributions to the thread that it is seen as some magical solution to current ills. I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but nationalising something in itself does not cure it of its inherent issues, It never has, and it never will.

Of course it wasn't back in the day but when you factor in the advances in energy production and technology then the margin for profit grows exponentially, why else would the Dutch govt own a portion of our railways?..

[joeysteele]

The socialist content of nationalisation is very different from the communist models.

The other thing is,nationalisation,being imposed by a power,would be an act of communism,That would be a fairer assumption in my view.
I would then add strongly,nationalisation voted for in democratic elections and therefore then done by a democratically elected govt,under the socialist model of nationalisation, is a world away from communism either in thought or fact.
So communism coming into this thread as to Corbyns 'possible' policies,I fear are red herrings.
I do expect it to come from the sick and warped media with their view of things however.

Nationalisation had its faults as I am learning from my family much older than myself as to the issues around the utility services then.
However, what I am also hearing is those issues pale into near insignificance as to what has transpired since privatisation which even they as usually firm Conservatives say, was the biggest con against consumers ever done.

It could work, with the right agenda and conditions in place.
In my view, looking at my water, electricity, gas bills,anything for me would be better than the rip off and sheer greed as to these services in operation now.

[Kizzy]

The socialist content of nationalisation is very different from the communist models.

The other thing is,nationalisation,being imposed by a power,would be an act of communism,That would be a fairer assumption in my view.
I would then add strongly,nationalisation voted for in democratic elections and therefore then done by a democratically elected govt,under the socialist model of nationalisation, is a world away from communism either in thought or fact.
So communism coming into this thread as to Corbyns 'possible' policies,I fear are red herrings.
I do expect it to come from the sick and warped media with their view of things however.

Nationalisation had its faults as I am learning from my family much older than myself as to the issues around the utility services then.
However, what I am also hearing is those issues pale into near insignificance as to what has transpired since privatisation which even they as usually firm Conservatives say, was the biggest con against consumers ever done.

It could work, with the right agenda and conditions in place.
In my view, looking at my water, electricity, gas bills,anything for me would be better than the rip off and sheer greed as to these services in operation now.

Excellent points Joey thankyou, I totally agree that the issues with nationalisation pale into insignificance when compared with the problems that deregulation and or privatisation of certain sectors has brought.

[Kazanne]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/22/18/2B94BD5200000578-0-image-a-2_1440264785265.jpg
2020

Who's that old tramp ? :laugh: joke

[Northern Monkey]

It's just a question of which is the lesser of two evils.A selection of greedy private companies or a singular greedy government with no competition who can manipulate prices as they feel?Certain things like the NHS need to stay in the hands of the government but what about things like the train line?Is'nt competition a good thing?As far as energy,I think that is debatable.Is it good to have competition and choice now?Prices are high now but would a national energy company be cheaper?Is it better to have a choice?I don't know.
You can guarantee that wether our energy was run by the government or private companies that prices are only going in one direction.

[the truth]

corbyn , the others are an absolute joke....a 10 year old would have more policies and beliefs. they disgust me

[joeysteele]

Who's that old tramp ? :laugh: joke

Well if the media don't like someone they will use the least flattering pics of them to be fair.

I thankfully will not ever judge someone on how they look rather than how they will act as to the welfare and treatment of others.
Surely the UK is not turning even more snobbish,things just get worse here.

We have a smartly dressed,made up to look wonderful PM and Cabinet now who give not a hoot most of the time about people desperate, whether they are dying, ill or poor.

I know who I would prefer to deal with and rather be with, the one,no matter how he is dressed who will really care as to Others real needs, and not the pompous smartly dressed one who doesn't.

[smudgie]

Had I decided it was worth a vote, then I would have voted Corbyn.
The other three just say what they thnk on any given day.
I reckon Corbyn believes in what he says, but I do not share any of his beliefs.
A rocky ride ahead for the Labour Party I think.