Europe Migrant Mess : Schengen Agreement was for 1985 its no good for now

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/01/15/2BE07E9000000578-3217584-image-a-1_1441117763495.jpg
[The Schengen Agreement was
signed by Belgium, France, German,
Luxembourg and the Netherlands
in June 1985, and created
a passport-free travel zone.
All 26 European countries
that are part of the area
have removed checkpoints
between each other,
creating a single external border]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219069/The-broken-Hungarian-official-says-3-000-migrants-entering-country-DAY-closure-Budapest-station-prompts-angry-clashes-police.html#ixzz3kYZL6NnL

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/01/12/2BDDE43700000578-3217584-Migrants_and_police_pictured_at_Keleti_railway_sta tion_in_Budape-a-60_1441106121609.jpg
Hungary can not handle the High Numbers.


The German Merkel woman
can not tell us to take more
Go and have them in your Fat Nation

[Kizzy]

'The image of a Syrian child face down in the sand after his tiny body was washed ashore has sparked international outcry over the failure to find a solution to the migrant crisis.
This is what we know so far about the young boy, who was found washed up on Bodrum beach in Turkey.
The toddler has been named by Turkish media as three-year-old Aylan Kurdi.
Aylan is reportedly from the town of Kobani in Syria, which has seen heavy fighting between IS militants and Kurdish forces.
According to Canadian media, the family were trying to reach Canada, where an aunt has lived for 20 years
The National Post reports that the family had previously tried and failed to obtain a privately-sponsored refugee visa in June.
The hashtag "KiyiyaVuranInsanlik" - "humanity washed ashore" became the top trending topic on Twitter after an image of Aylan, who was found washed up on a beach near Bodrum, Turkey, was shared online.
The picture has sparked international outcry over the failure to find a solution to the migrant crisis.
Aylan is believed to have died alongside his five-year-old brother Galip, who had been travelling in the same boat.
The boys are believed to be two of 11 Syrian refugees who died after trying to cross the Mediterranean on two boats bound for the Greek island of Kos.
The two boats, carrying a total of 23 people, had set off separately from the Akyarlar area of the Bodrum peninsula.'

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-02/what-we-know-about-the-young-syrian-boy-found-drowned-on-bodrum-beach-in-turkey/

[smudgie]

It's a right old mess.
Hungary seem to have the right idea, making sure people are legally allowed to travel before letting them on their way.
Perhaps if the borders were put back it would put people off risking their lives and their kids lives crossing the sea.
Time to look closer to home for a solution, perhaps on their own Continent, there must be some safe havens surely.:shrug:

[empire]

the more we let in, the more the far right will gain power, in europe, if parties will put the interests of outsiders first, rather than the voters, then you can't blame the voters for heading for the right wing parties,

[Niamh.]

After seeing that picture of that dead little boy, I just can't understand the lack of empathy coming from people on this subject

[Kizzy]

Some things just never change... this island mentality being just one, the opinion of 3rd generation immigrants really baffle me however, this article is from 2002 but relevant.

'There's a doleful little game that staff at the Refugee Council sometimes play. They show visitors press cuttings about refugees and asylum seekers from the 1900s, 1930s and today, and ask them to guess when they were published. Most people get it wrong. They assume that Jewish refugees were welcomed, at least in the 1930s, with a tolerance that has traditionally been seen as a beacon of Britishness. They're shocked to discover that rabid intolerance - among both press and government - has a strong British pedigree. As Tony Kushner, professor of history at the University of Southampton, says, "The Daily Mail has been an anti-alien newspaper since the 1900s. There's great continuity.'

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/08/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

[Niamh.]

^ Refugees from WW11 is a good example actually, I didn't know how well those people were received but people like to look back and think they would have helped them, why is now any different? Why are these people less human than those?

All I know is if I was in their shoes I'd probably be trying to get out too

[Cherie]

A guy called into 5live this am saying he previously supported UKIPs stance on immigrants but having spoken to refugees at first hand during a holiday to Cos he changed his mind, he said it was heartbreaking to see families carrying their possessions as they fled war zones, I think this picture and the story behind it might actually go some way to Europe actually tackling this crisis rather than ignoring it

[JoshBB]

^ Refugees from WW11 is a good example actually, I didn't know how well those people were received but people like to look back and think they would have helped them, why is now any different? Why are these people less human than those?

All I know is if I was in their shoes I'd probably be trying to get out too

Also we took on a lot of refugees in WW2 and the economy was really quite bad back then.. idk why people are acting like we can't afford them.

[Cherie]

Also we took on a lot of refugees in WW2 and the economy was really quite bad back then.. idk why people are acting like we can't afford them.

Greed, Also we are confusing economic migrants with refugees which is what they are

[Niamh.]

Also we took on a lot of refugees in WW2 and the economy was really quite bad back then.. idk why people are acting like we can't afford them.

Yeah I was talking about WW2

[JoshBB]

Greed, Also we are confusing economic migrants with refugees which is what they are

It's so sad. I'm really glad though that people seem to be waking up a little bit with compassion towards these refugees.

Thing is, if these syrian refugees were economic migrants then 1.2 million of them wouldn't have gone to Turkey and 1.8 million would not have gone to Lebanon. We took 147 of them by the way, which is appalling considering the economy we have.

[JoshBB]

Yeah I was talking about WW2

My bad.

If I remember rightly from history though, a lot of the children back then were evacuated.. many to other countries. Thank god they didn't decide their economies were too weak and they had 'a housing crisis'.

[Niamh.]

My bad.

If I remember rightly from history though, a lot of the children back then were evacuated.. many to other countries. Thank god they didn't decide their economies were too weak and they had 'a housing crisis'.

yep and as an Irish person, I'm disgusted by the attitudes I'm hearing from fellow Irish people over here when Ireland had a similar situation during the Potato famine in the 19th century when Irish people tried to escape to other countries in order to survive, on ships that were known as Coffin Ships ..........I'm sure you can guess why they were called that

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11923222_10153299740534064_139959908134786061_n.jp g?oh=98a078b99e3e54dc3794f52b194c244d&oe=56613D98

[rubymoo]

It's a complete and utter mess, my heart goes out to the families who are fleeing from persecution and a better life, i think these people need to be fast tracked, and is there no way the whole world can help out?

The problem is that IS promised to send thousands of militants into Europe, who's to say they aren't filtering in with the desperate refugees? Plotting their next move?

There's no way of knowing who these people are, their intentions, or their past.

I know in my heart that if i was in danger and so were my family, then i also would be fleeing, and i would hope that there would be help, but we now live in a highly dangerous and suspicious world, on one hand the human side says help these people and yet on the other hand these people could potentially threaten our country.

Of course these are my opinions and i hope i haven't offended anyone, i know if there were refugees in my town living on the street/park i would be one of the first ones there helping out.

[Cherie]

yep and as an Irish person, I'm disgusted by the attitudes I'm hearing from fellow Irish people over here when Ireland had a similar situation during the Potato famine in the 19th century when Irish people tried to escape to other countries in order to survive, on ships that were known as Coffin Ships ..........I'm sure you can guess why they were called that

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11923222_10153299740534064_139959908134786061_n.jp g?oh=98a078b99e3e54dc3794f52b194c244d&oe=56613D98

:clap1: I find Some Irish people to be extremely racist and xenophobic

[Cherie]

It's a complete and utter mess, my heart goes out to the families who are fleeing from persecution and a better life, i think these people need to be fast tracked, and is there no way the whole world can help out?

The problem is that IS promised to send thousands of militants into Europe, who's to say they aren't filtering in with the desperate refugees? Plotting their next move?

There's no way of knowing who these people are, their intentions, or their past.

I know in my heart that if i was in danger and so were my family, then i also would be fleeing, and i would hope that there would be help, but we now live in a highly dangerous and suspicious world, on one hand the human side says help these people and yet on the other hand these people could potentially threaten our country.

Of course these are my opinions and i hope i haven't offended anyone, i know if there were refugees in my town living on the street/park i would be one of the first ones there helping out.


There does need to be some form of processing, the buck passing is disgusting

[rubymoo]

There does need to be some form of processing, the buck passing is disgusting

Maybe they could ask everyone if they want to relocate, get the whole world on the move, if people from this country want to move to other countries, (for example i'd like to give Canada a shot) then let us go to Cananda and that leaves 4 places in the UK to be filled.

[Kizzy]

Seen my sig Ruby? many are terrified into going along with whatever inhumane actions our govt suggested because of the 'threat' of terrorism.

[rubymoo]

Seen my sig Ruby? many are terrified into going along with whatever inhumane actions our govt suggested because of the 'threat' of terrorism.

Yeah i get that Kizzy and sadly there are a lot of people who are scared, how i see it is the migrants are here now, there's a situation that needs dealing with and the migrants need processing asap, we can't let the threat of terrorism point us in the wrong direction, and i'm a big believer in what will be will be, to me this is a world problem, even though they are on European soil.

I would gladly accept those plane tickets and citizenship into Canada though!:laugh:

[Ammi]

..some of the comments on one of the news pages below the image of the Syrian child are quite shocking and lacking in any compassion at all...


Go to another African state, there are other safe countries other than Europe. All they do is DEMAND! They want to be drip fed benefits!


Oh that old trick. Using kids to pull at the heart strings. It's the same with the ads on TV the charities use to get more money out of gullible people


Take them in now and in a few years it will be the your Anglo-Saxon non Muslim descendants that will be lying face down in the road. Sad but true



Aesop explained, many centuries ago, that the injured snake you pity and care for will bite you when it recovers.

[rubymoo]

..some of the comments on one of the news pages below the image of the Syrian child are quite shocking and lacking in any compassion at all...


Go to another African state, there are other safe countries other than Europe. All they do is DEMAND! They want to be drip fed benefits!


Oh that old trick. Using kids to pull at the heart strings. It's the same with the ads on TV the charities use to get more money out of gullible people


Take them in now and in a few years it will be the your Anglo-Saxon non Muslim descendants that will be lying face down in the road. Sad but true



Aesop explained, many centuries ago, that the injured snake you pity and care for will bite you when it recovers.


Pretty shocking and sad:(

[Kizzy]

Because ' I'm alright jack' is the phrase that trips off the tongue, all countries that have had a hand in the destabilisation of the area for whatever reason has an obligation to be part of the solution.

[kirklancaster]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/01/12/2BDDE43700000578-3217584-Migrants_and_police_pictured_at_Keleti_railway_sta tion_in_Budape-a-60_1441106121609.jpg

There ARE genuine tragic cases, and I grieve just as much as anyone for innocent children and genuine refugees, and - yes - something must be worked out to help these genuine refugees, but - I'm sorry - the pic above which Arista posted, and a thousand others, are telling by the fact that they are 99.99% YOUNG MEN.

The GREAT MAJORITY of these 'refugees' are flooding Europe through 'ASPIRATION' not 'DESPERATION'.

I'm sorry, but it is a fact.

And it is another fact that the UK CANNOT accommodate ALL those desiring to come here - no matter how much we may wish it, and no matter how many times we say that it is 'THE HUMANITARIAN' thing to do.

What is urgently needed is a thorough vetting procedure to ensure that all the fit young men who are fleeing from NOTHING are refused entry so that GENUINE refugees CAN be allowed entry into the UK with all the help we can - then - afford to give them.

Sorry.

[user104658]

I just can't with this ****, from people who have the gall to call others less than human. Most of these are normal people who were living just fine in their own countries until their world was destroyed. Our countries didn't just play "a part" in that destruction, they are at the very heart of it, and yet it's excuse after excuse for why we can't do more to help them. Selfishness, greed and paranoia. That's our world now.

Let's face it, the world is crumbling. It has a couple of centuries left in it at absolute ****ing maximum, so yeah, I think we can afford to spend the time we have left helping others to live their lives today rather than rejecting them in some desperate and hopeless scrabble to "have more for ourselves" tomorrow.

[Northern Monkey]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/01/12/2BDDE43700000578-3217584-Migrants_and_police_pictured_at_Keleti_railway_sta tion_in_Budape-a-60_1441106121609.jpg

There ARE genuine tragic cases, and I grieve just as much as anyone for innocent children and genuine refugees, and - yes - something must be worked out to help these genuine refugees, but - I'm sorry - the pic above which Arista posted, and a thousand others, are telling by the fact that they are 99.99% YOUNG MEN.

The GREAT MAJORITY of these 'refugees' are flooding Europe through 'ASPIRATION' not 'DESPERATION'.

I'm sorry, but it is a fact.

And it is another fact that the UK CANNOT accommodate ALL those desiring to come here - no matter how much we may wish it, and no matter how many times we say that it is 'THE HUMANITARIAN' thing to do.

What is urgently needed is a thorough vetting procedure to ensure that all the fit young men who are fleeing from NOTHING are refused entry so that GENUINE refugees CAN be allowed entry into the UK with all the help we can - then - afford to give them.

Sorry.:clap1:
Exactly!Where are all these refugee families in this picture?
There needs to be direct contact with countries like Syria with genuine refugees so that the people we do take in are the ones that need the help rather than just taking in economic migrants and ISIS members.

[MTVN]

Even if we accept the 'economic migrants' argument, it cannot be too hard to work out those from the genuine refugees. Those coming from Syria are clearly refugees and we have taken barely any while countries like Germany and Sweden take thousands. I also have sympathy for countries like Hungary and Macedonia who are having to bear the brunt of this influx when they are impoverished countries themselves and we twiddle our thumbs. The UK - and the EU at large - response to this has been an absolute shambles when this is precisely the situation where we should see the benefit of our common European project

[bots]

Even if we accept the 'economic migrants' argument, it cannot be too hard to work out those from the genuine refugees. Those coming from Syria are clearly refugees and we have taken barely any while countries like Germany and Sweden take thousands. I also have sympathy for countries like Hungary and Macedonia who are having to bear the brunt of this influx when they are impoverished countries themselves and we twiddle our thumbs. The UK - and the EU at large - response to this has been an absolute shambles when this is precisely the situation where we should see the benefit of our common European project

There has been so much bad press toward immigration that even justifiable cases are sneered at these days. Its always the same, we seem to be incapable as a nation of being measured in our reactions.

If Europe focussed its attention on the main immigrant entry points, then the immigrants that we eventually see here will all have justifiable reasons for being here, and their numbers quantifiable

It does no one any good to behave and react like headless chickens

[Ammi]

Even if we accept the 'economic migrants' argument, it cannot be too hard to work out those from the genuine refugees. Those coming from Syria are clearly refugees and we have taken barely any while countries like Germany and Sweden take thousands. I also have sympathy for countries like Hungary and Macedonia who are having to bear the brunt of this influx when they are impoverished countries themselves and we twiddle our thumbs. The UK - and the EU at large - response to this has been an absolute shambles when this is precisely the situation where we should see the benefit of our common European project

...good post Matt...

..I think if it can ever be thought that anything positive could happen with the death of a child or anyone else...it's that now with the tragic death and images of Aylan Kurdi, the refugees are no longer 'nameless and faceless' so they can be 'humanised' and that I think has been a thing before..that it's so much more easy for government to dither etc with faceless and nameless people..no more passing of bucks/blame. finger pointing etc and just action hopefully and the foundations of a solution...

[arista]

Even if we accept the 'economic migrants' argument, it cannot be too hard to work out those from the genuine refugees. Those coming from Syria are clearly refugees and we have taken barely any while countries like Germany and Sweden take thousands. I also have sympathy for countries like Hungary and Macedonia who are having to bear the brunt of this influx when they are impoverished countries themselves and we twiddle our thumbs. The UK - and the EU at large - response to this has been an absolute shambles when this is precisely the situation where we should see the benefit of our common European project

Yes now the PM has said he will take more from Syria
as they have no nation to return to

[Crimson Dynamo]

70 odd men women and children die a horrific death in a lorry - no image

1 wee boy washed up on a beach - many images


interesting the different reactions

[arista]

It's a right old mess.
Hungary seem to have the right idea, making sure people are legally allowed to travel before letting them on their way.
Perhaps if the borders were put back it would put people off risking their lives and their kids lives crossing the sea.
Time to look closer to home for a solution, perhaps on their own Continent, there must be some safe havens surely.:shrug:


But as soon as they tried that the Illegals
ran back to the train and refused to move, yesterday


So although Hungary wants to Register them
they refused.
As it well known if they go to Germany they get
Euro Passports
and then can go onto England.

[arista]

70 odd men women and children die a horrific death in a lorry - no image

1 wee boy washed up on a beach - many images


interesting the different reactions


YES LT
that Lorry was Far Worse

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/04/00/2BEFB46C00000578-0-This_desperate_migrant_family_were_forced_off_a_tr ain_by_police_-a-28_1441322162579.jpg
Look at all the Cameras rush in
its all for TV News and Newspaper Frontpages

[Kizzy]

Our govt have a hard time humanising our own children in need, they are well aware of how their actions have impacted on the world, they're not dithering because they don't know they're stalling because they do.
The misinformation and the fear generated in the press has filtered through there and yet there is this image of little Aylan that's pricked the public consciousness and burst the apathetic bubble. He's not the first there have been hundreds washing up on shorelines for months, it's only now the pressure from other countries has become so great the UK has been forced to act hence the swing to the humanitarian angle.

[Crimson Dynamo]

and if we put up a sign saying "all welcome" many more images like that wee boy will be published

[Kizzy]

and if we put up a sign saying "all welcome" many more images like that wee boy will be published

So what's the answer, carry on ignoring the issue?
That's not an option any longer, the pressure is on the EU to act, we're not responding with 'all welcome' we're not responding at all compared with other countries.

[MTVN]

639534649446920192

[arista]

The Good thing The PM will do
is take familys Direct from camps in Syria via UN
not the Illegal way.

The PM is about to speak Live from Portugal

[arista]

Hungary does not want Muslims
staying there.

Thats against the Rules

[Niamh.]

:clap1: I find Some Irish people to be extremely racist and xenophobic

Looks like we're going to be increasing the number of refugees we're taking in x 3 times now, still not loads but any increase is positive

[Niamh.]

I just can't with this ****, from people who have the gall to call others less than human. Most of these are normal people who were living just fine in their own countries until their world was destroyed. Our countries didn't just play "a part" in that destruction, they are at the very heart of it, and yet it's excuse after excuse for why we can't do more to help them. Selfishness, greed and paranoia. That's our world now.

Let's face it, the world is crumbling. It has a couple of centuries left in it at absolute ****ing maximum, so yeah, I think we can afford to spend the time we have left helping others to live their lives today rather than rejecting them in some desperate and hopeless scrabble to "have more for ourselves" tomorrow.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Even if we accept the 'economic migrants' argument, it cannot be too hard to work out those from the genuine refugees. Those coming from Syria are clearly refugees and we have taken barely any while countries like Germany and Sweden take thousands. I also have sympathy for countries like Hungary and Macedonia who are having to bear the brunt of this influx when they are impoverished countries themselves and we twiddle our thumbs. The UK - and the EU at large - response to this has been an absolute shambles when this is precisely the situation where we should see the benefit of our common European project

I think it was the Czech leader who said that the main problem is that the EU is lying and than around 95% of the migrants are economic

[Kizzy]

I think it was the Czech leader who said that the main problem is that the EU is lying and than around 95% of the migrants are economic

So theyy are leaving their homes and paying smugglers 1000s because they're poor?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

So theyy are leaving their homes and paying smugglers 1000s because they're poor?...

The Hungarian opposition leader said that many of them appear to be (by their attire, mobiles and amount paid to travel) a lot wealthier than the average Hungarian!

[Niamh.]

The Hungarian opposition leader said that many of them appear to be (by their attire, mobiles and amount paid to travel) a lot wealthier than the average Hungarian!

So they're richer than most people in the countries they're risking their lives to get into..........makes sense :think:

[Kizzy]

The Hungarian opposition leader said that many of them appear to be (by their attire, mobiles and amount paid to travel) a lot wealthier than the average Hungarian!

Or... normal people trying not to get killed?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Or... normal people trying not to get killed?

Is it not more about the people who are bringing them. If the smugglers did not exist perhaps people would not leave?

[Kizzy]

If the smugglers did not exist would the people in that area still be under threat?

[MTVN]

So on the one hand the vast majority of them are economic migrants (i.e. fleeing poverty) but on the other many of them are quite wealthy? Why would the EU lie as well, if 95% of them were economic migrants that seems exactly the sort of thing they would want to be known if it gives a reason for countries to not have to take very many

Although I said it can't be hard to work out who is a refugee, I suppose there is a difficulty about when someone goes from being a refugee to an 'economic migrant'. How bad does your country have to be to qualify as the former? Surely people would concede that those from Syria and Libya are refugees? A lot of African migrants are from Eritrea which has North Korean levels of oppression but are they refugees? What about those from Sudan? The definitions can be blurred quite easily. I think Cameron has made a sensible start by pledging to accept more from refugee camps within Syria itself but there is no simple solution here.

[arista]

If the smugglers did not exist would the people in that area still be under threat?

No as
just go outside of near Syria
UN camps (they can walk to) No dodgy smuggles dingy needed
they will be the Legal people

[arista]

http://thenewcontext.milanoschool.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/REU-SYRIA-CRISIS_JORDAN.jpg

Kizzy this kid is legal

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the smugglers did not exist would the people in that area still be under threat?

millions and millions of people live under threat and dont move, maybe they would if bastards told them that there is a land of milk and honey at the end of £500?

[Niamh.]

Saw this posted on Facebook, I love these guys :laugh:

Rubberbandits
Just now ·

If anyones going to Electric Picnic this weekend and has bought a temporary tent. Collapse your tent and donate it to the Cork/Dublin-Calais Refugee Volunteers at the Global Green from 10am Monday. Tents are badly needed. (if you'd like to post underneath this "what about the Irish homeless people lads?" . Then give your tent to a homeless person on the drive home instead, or in your hometown)

[Crimson Dynamo]

So this posted on Facebook, I love these guys :laugh:

Rubberbandits
Just now ·

If anyones going to Electric Picnic this weekend and has bought a temporary tent. Collapse your tent and donate it to the Cork/Dublin-Calais Refugee Volunteers at the Global Green from 10am Monday. Tents are badly needed. (if you'd like to post underneath this "what about the Irish homeless people lads?" . Then give your tent to a homeless person on the drive home instead, or in your hometown)

I heard that 1800 migrants arrived in Ireland and after 1 week they have decided to try their luck back in Syria!

[Niamh.]

I heard that 1800 migrants arrived in Ireland and after 1 week they have decided to try their luck back in Syria!

:laugh:

[Nedusa]

Yeah I was talking about WW2

Thank goodness for that , for a moment there I thought I had missed the 9 other World Wars.....lol:laugh:

[Niamh.]

Thank goodness for that , for a moment there I thought I had missed the 9 other World Wars.....lol:laugh:

:laugh:

I meant to put WWII :fist:

[arista]

Another thing Kizzy

What the PM is doing guarantees the people
in the UN camps (just outside of Syria)
are Proper Refugees that will come to the UK.


In that Utter Mess in Europe
Migrants are mixed up in the Refugees
and learn what to say.


So I say well done PM

[arista]

Hungary Update:

Many Illegals have now started to walking to Austria
a 2 day walk,approx 90miles, if they make it alive.

Ch5HD News : showed a video from
the Hungary Refugee Camp
it was terrible mess,
many said in the Near Syria UN Camps it was better
than the Hungary Camp

[empire]

the fact that europe could end up like syria ten times worse, if we don't stop with this mass invasion, eu's open door policy, is a huge danger to us,

[arista]

the fact that europe could end up like syria ten times worse, if we don't stop with this mass invasion, eu's open door policy, is a huge danger to us,


Yes but Our PM
its doing it his way
Not the German Feck Up

[Livia]

I would like to know how many refugees the USA, Canada and Australia are going to take. There are 26 million people in Australia, three times as many people that live in London spread out across a whole continent. They could take a million, they have the space.

[rubymoo]

I would like to know how many refugees the USA, Canada and Australia are going to take. There are 26 million people in Australia, three times as many people that live in London spread out across a whole continent. They could take a million, they have the space.

I think it's a world wide problem too Livia, even though they're on European soil, i do believe that the USA, Canada and Australia could help alleviate the migrant crisis, it's shocking really that it's got to this state.

My daughter did say that Russia has plenty of land why don't they give some of it to the migrants, i then went on to explain that Putin doesn't share:laugh:

As i said to Kizzy, i'd be more than willing to give up my citizenship in the UK for Canadian citizenship, that would be 4 spaces going in the UK.

[Livia]

Haha Ruby... I know what you mean about Canada. Not sure that idea's going to fly though.

I'm waiting for Germany to tell the USA they're not doing enough... and the USA telling Germany to do one.

[Kizzy]

Look what Australia did to our post war orphans...I wouldn't trust them with a dingo.
Canada seems to be adopting the Conservative model so watch out for them selling arms to tyrants and becoming as hypocritical as we are in the future.

[arista]

Hungary Tells Germany To Stop Taking Refugees

The country's PM criticises Berlin for encouraging "millions" more to descend on Europe - and claims many have no case for asylum.

http://news.sky.com/story/1548073/hungary-tells-germany-to-stop-taking-refugees

[user104658]

Haha Ruby... I know what you mean about Canada. Not sure that idea's going to fly though.

I'm waiting for Germany to tell the USA they're not doing enough... and the USA telling Germany to do one.

The USA will be like,
"They can have Mexico."

And Mexico will be like,
"Eh? What? Mexico is an independent country and we refuse to let them have Mexico!"

And Germany will be like,
"So can they have Mexico?"

And the USA will be like,
"They can have Mexico."

[Kizzy]

But wait there's a really cool list on another thread that says the US takes loads of people..
'11 United States 321,766,000 763 1215 '

Maybe nobody says they're not doing enough because they are?

[lostalex]

But wait there's a really cool list on another thread that says the US takes loads of people..
'11 United States 321,766,000 763 1215 '

Maybe nobody says they're not doing enough because they are?

exactly... not to mention when's the last time Europe offered to take in any of the 11 million illegals we already have in this country...

As soon as the EU agrees to help with the 11 million illegals we already have, they can go do a flying flip off the highest building if they claim we should be doing more to help them.

the fact that we are already doing so much is worthy of nothing but praise.

[Livia]

Oh dear... there appears to be some confusion over the statistics on the other thread. Let me explain that final figure amongst all those other figures...

11 United States - 1215 citizens per individual refugee.

16 United Kingdom - 319 citizens per individual refugee.

The UK has four times as many refugees as the USA. That's refugees in general. No one's saying that the USA has no refugees, but the fact is that they do not seems to have been called upon to take Syrian refugees because for some reason it's looked upon as a European problem.

[lostalex]

Oh dear... there appears to be some confusion over the statistics on the other thread. Let me explain that final figure amongst all those other figures...

11 United States - 1215 citizens per individual refugee.

16 United Kingdom - 319 citizens per individual refugee.

The UK has four times as many refugees as the USA. That's refugees in general. No one's saying that the USA has no refugees, but the fact is that they do not seems to have been called upon to take Syrian refugees because for some reason it's looked upon as a European problem.

you got that backwards...the US has taken in 4 times as many as the UK you meant to say...

and it is a European problem because that's where they are fleeing to. I haven't heard about a ton of boats sailing across the atlantic towards North America...SO it IS a European problem. the same way the Mexican border is an American problem...

[Livia]

you got that backwards...the US has taken in 4 times as many as the UK you meant to say...

and it is a European problem because that's where they are fleeing to. I haven't heard about a ton of boats sailing across the atlantic towards North America...SO it IS a European problem. the same way the Mexican border is an American problem...

No, I didn't get it wrong.

There are 1200 Americans to every 1 refugee
There are 300 Brits to every 1 Reguee.

If the USA had as many as us, you'd have 1200 Americans to every 4 refugees.

There's been a lot of talk on here about how we should take responsibility for displaced people due to conflict because we were involved. Well, yes we were, and we were involved with our great allies the USA so by the logic of some people, the USA should be taking their share... although the involvement of both of our countries in Syria is negligible... you know the reactionary opinions in here.

[kirklancaster]

Oh dear... there appears to be some confusion over the statistics on the other thread. Let me explain that final figure amongst all those other figures...

11 United States - 1215 citizens per individual refugee.

16 United Kingdom - 319 citizens per individual refugee.

The UK has four times as many refugees as the USA. That's refugees in general. No one's saying that the USA has no refugees, but the fact is that they do not seems to have been called upon to take Syrian refugees because for some reason it's looked upon as a European problem.

...And then the millions and millions of ILLEGALS secreted in BOTH countries - of which BOTH countries governments only admit to a fraction of.

[kirklancaster]

No, I didn't get it wrong.

There are 1200 Americans to every 1 refugee
There are 300 Brits to every 1 Reguee.

If the USA had as many as us, you'd have 1200 Americans to every 4 refugees.

There's been a lot of talk on here about how we should take responsibility for displaced people due to conflict because we were involved. Well, yes we were, and we were involved with our great allies the USA so by the logic of some people, the USA should be taking their share... although the involvement of both of our countries in Syria is negligible... you know the reactionary opinions in here.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Livia]

...And then the millions and millions of ILLEGALS secreted in BOTH countries - of which BOTH countries governments only admit to a fraction of.

Good morning, Kirk.

Although USA Immigration are a little less chaotic and disorganised than we are, I don't mind admitting.

[Kizzy]

Oh dear... there appears to be some confusion over the statistics on the other thread. Let me explain that final figure amongst all those other figures...

11 United States - 1215 citizens per individual refugee.

16 United Kingdom - 319 citizens per individual refugee.

The UK has four times as many refugees as the USA. That's refugees in general. No one's saying that the USA has no refugees, but the fact is that they do not seems to have been called upon to take Syrian refugees because for some reason it's looked upon as a European problem.

Oh dear... the outdated wiki page is causing some issues, if we rely on the up to date info we have for the UKs intake of refugees the number was I believe just over 200... The PM has been forced to amend this and we await the amended figures.

[kirklancaster]

Good morning, Kirk.

Although USA Immigration are a little less chaotic and disorganised than we are, I don't mind admitting.

Good morning my lovely Liv.

Yes - I agree, the US are more efficient than we are in that area. But then Botswana probably is too. :hehe:

[Kizzy]

Are Botswana bombing in Syria too?

[Livia]

Good morning my lovely Liv.

Yes - I agree, the US are more efficient than we are in that area. But then Botswana probably is too. :hehe:

Ah Kirk... new intelligence. We can only take refugees from countries we have bombed, no matter the reasons for the bombing. That should save us quite a bit, then.

[Kizzy]

Ah Kirk... new intelligence. We can only take refugees from countries we have bombed, no matter the reasons for the bombing. That should save us quite a bit, then.

Hmmm... I didn't say that did I? :shrug:

[arista]

[Hungarian Police Block Main Migrant Crossing]

Due to the larger number of Illegals
New Higher Fences have gone up

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/14/418094/default/v1/cegrab-20150914-155750-159-1-736x414.jpg

[Hungary has added hundreds
of extra policemen to its border
with Serbia and refugees who cross
the frontier illegally and try to avoid
officials could face imprisonment from Tuesday.]

http://news.sky.com/story/1552429/hungarian-police-block-main-migrant-crossing

[arista]

Hungary has Blocked all
now


SkyNewsHD

[arista]

Now Fights , Pepper Spray CS Gas
as they Illegals broke through into Hungary

http://news.sky.com/story/1553706/tear-gas-fired-as-migrants-break-through-fence

[kirklancaster]

I apologise. Immigrants ARE good for a country's Employment Figures; Thousands of extra police and soldiers have to be recruited to deal with the illegal immigrants lawlessness.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/2C622EE600000578-3236418-image-a-15_1442414987286.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/2C623B7A00000578-3236418-image-a-18_1442415018509.jpg
[Blast: Hungarian police responded by
firing their tear gas and water cannons
across the border into Serbia]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3236418/Hundreds-migrants-risk-lives-attempting-reach-western-Europe-Croatia-route-littered-50-000-active-landmines-Hungary-seals-Serbian-border-razor-wire.html#ixzz3lusVB48h

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/2C61FA7800000578-3236418-image-a-31_1442412185475.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/article-3236418-2C62450F00000578-244_964x406.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/2C61FA7800000578-3236418-image-a-31_1442412185475.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/16/15/article-3236418-2C62450F00000578-244_964x406.jpg

maybe they should show that level of interest in fixing their own countries that they are "fleeing" from?

[arista]

maybe they should show that level of interest in fixing their own countries that they are "fleeing" from?


Many are running from Isis
thats a point of no return
as No nation can take them on in full.


This 1985 Agreement needs updating

[Crimson Dynamo]

Many are running from Isis
thats a point of no return
as No nation can take them on in full.


This 1985 Agreement needs updating

they need to be herded off to saudi arabia

plenty space, they have the money


we dont want them

[kirklancaster]

they need to be herded off to saudi arabia

plenty space, they have the money


we dont want them

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[DemolitionRed]

they need to be herded off to saudi arabia

plenty space, they have the money


we dont want them

Is that a collective 'we' ?

[arista]

they need to be herded off to saudi arabia

plenty space, they have the money


we dont want them


No they are a Rich Nation
they do not Want any of them
and they have Full Rights

[Kizzy]

Is that a collective 'we' ?

No, no it isn't.

[empire]

the left wing think that putting millions of refugees, into europe, will make everything better, no it won't, because why, the poverty rate for europeans, will be so bad, that you could end up with civil uprisings, that will give the far right the big rule, my biggest fear that you will have cities like paris, and berlin, where half of them will be muslim zones, the left wing parties biggest failure was to not help the people who voted for them, instead opened the floodgates, with money and a free house, to people who just got of a boat, and who is it that will pay the price for this failure, the local people, because they where pushed aside with persecution laws, if they dare say anything bad about it, the EU, is nothing more than a rich mans banana republic,

[arista]

Now Croatia is going to follow Hungary

[MTVN]

Remember the fuss made about Calais in the summer? Hungary and Croatia are facing circumstances ten times more challenging right now

[arista]

Remember the fuss made about Calais in the summer? Hungary and Croatia are facing circumstances ten times more challenging right now


For Sure

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/18/419239/default/v3/190915-papers-daily-mail-1-563x750.jpg

[Northern Monkey]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/9/18/419239/default/v3/190915-papers-daily-mail-1-563x750.jpg

This is why the PM is doing the right thing in going straight to the camps.Who knows wtf has landed in Europe,Terrorists,Eco migrants....

[arista]

This is why the PM is doing the right thing in going straight to the camps.Who knows wtf has landed in Europe,Terrorists,Eco migrants....


Bang On Right

[kirklancaster]

This is why the PM is doing the right thing in going straight to the camps.Who knows wtf has landed in Europe,Terrorists,Eco migrants....

More sense from you Paul.

[Nedusa]

'The image of a Syrian child face down in the sand after his tiny body was washed ashore has sparked international outcry over the failure to find a solution to the migrant crisis.
This is what we know so far about the young boy, who was found washed up on Bodrum beach in Turkey.
The toddler has been named by Turkish media as three-year-old Aylan Kurdi.
Aylan is reportedly from the town of Kobani in Syria, which has seen heavy fighting between IS militants and Kurdish forces.
According to Canadian media, the family were trying to reach Canada, where an aunt has lived for 20 years
The National Post reports that the family had previously tried and failed to obtain a privately-sponsored refugee visa in June.
The hashtag "KiyiyaVuranInsanlik" - "humanity washed ashore" became the top trending topic on Twitter after an image of Aylan, who was found washed up on a beach near Bodrum, Turkey, was shared online.
The picture has sparked international outcry over the failure to find a solution to the migrant crisis.
Aylan is believed to have died alongside his five-year-old brother Galip, who had been travelling in the same boat.
The boys are believed to be two of 11 Syrian refugees who died after trying to cross the Mediterranean on two boats bound for the Greek island of Kos.
The two boats, carrying a total of 23 people, had set off separately from the Akyarlar area of the Bodrum peninsula.'

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-02/what-we-know-about-the-young-syrian-boy-found-drowned-on-bodrum-beach-in-turkey/

Typical media story designed to pull at the heart strings of gullible readers . There are far more important things at stake here than the unfortunate drowning of a child.

The Schengen Agreement is an affront to our sovereignty and should be abolished without delay. The EU experiment has been a disaster for the the UK and we need to leave it immediately.

[kirklancaster]

Typical media story designed to pull at the heart strings of gullible readers . There are far more important things at stake here than the unfortunate drowning of a child.

The Schengen Agreement is an affront to our sovereignty and should be abolished without delay. The EU experiment has been a disaster for the the UK and we need to leave it immediately.

A very brave but very true post Nedusa. Very True.

[DemolitionRed]

But Britain and Northern Ireland never joined the Schengen agreement. We were one of the countries that opted out.

The countries who did join can opt out at any time, they don't need to leave the EU to do that. Germany and Austria have done just that since a record number of migrants have travelled there. France has re-imposed its border controls from time to time and so have the Dutch.

For the Brits, the one thing that benefits us from the Schengen agreement is rapid response when chasing criminals across borders.

[Kizzy]

I don't think think that's common knowledge is it.. or there wouldn't be so many having such a hysterical knee jerk reaction to this humanitarian crisis.

[bots]

The problem from a UK perspective is people using their Schengen travel capability to wander through europe, arrive in France and then sneak in to the UK. The UK can't control that easily.

[Kizzy]

The problem from a UK perspective is people using their Schengen travel capability to wander through europe, arrive in France and then sneak in to the UK. The UK can't control that easily.

Right so we're not only bothered about monitoring and tracking those in and from the UK but the rest of the world too?

[bots]

Right so we're not only bothered about monitoring and tracking those in and from the UK but the rest of the world too?

well only in as much as we are part of europe, because of the free travel within europe once you are in, all the european borders become a concern

[kirklancaster]

Right so we're not only bothered about monitoring and tracking those in and from the UK but the rest of the world too?

But where did BitOnTheSlide say that Kizzy? He was merely and rightfully pointing out the problem to the UK that the Schengen Agreement causes.

I personally feel that we have a duty of common sense to 'monitor the rest of the world'.

[bots]

Right so we're not only bothered about monitoring and tracking those in and from the UK but the rest of the world too?

Just to clarify the process and the context. Someone outside of europe can apply for a Schengen visa, at any country that is within that system. Once that visa is granted, the person can then choose to travel to any other country in europe within the Schengen system. The current list of countries in the Schengen agreement is:

- Austria
- Belgium
- Czech Republic
- Denmark
- Estonia
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- Greece
- Hungary
- Iceland (not a European Union Member State)
- Italy
- Latvia
- Liechtenstein (not a European Union Member State)
- Lithuania
- Luxembourg
- Malta
- Netherlands
- Norway (not a European Union Member State)
- Poland
- Portugal
- Slovakia
- Slovenia
- Spain
- Sweden
- Swiss (not a European Union Member State)


Typically, people trying to get a visa apply to the one with the minimum restrictions, that was Finland I think, not sure if that is still the case. The UK is not part of the Schengen system, so while someone may have a visa to travel to France through Schengen, that does not grant them access to the UK, which is why problems arise.

[Kizzy]

But where did BitOnTheSlide say that Kizzy? He was merely and rightfully pointing out the problem to the UK that the Schengen Agreement causes.

I personally feel that we have a duty of common sense to 'monitor the rest of the world'.

Yes I know you do.

[Kizzy]

Just to clarify the process and the context. Someone outside of europe can apply for a Schengen visa, at any country that is within that system. Once that visa is granted, the person can then choose to travel to any other country in europe within the Schengen system. The current list of countries in the Schengen agreement is:

- Austria
- Belgium
- Czech Republic
- Denmark
- Estonia
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- Greece
- Hungary
- Iceland (not a European Union Member State)
- Italy
- Latvia
- Liechtenstein (not a European Union Member State)
- Lithuania
- Luxembourg
- Malta
- Netherlands
- Norway (not a European Union Member State)
- Poland
- Portugal
- Slovakia
- Slovenia
- Spain
- Sweden
- Swiss (not a European Union Member State)


Typically, people trying to get a visa apply to the one with the minimum restrictions, that was Finland I think, not sure if that is still the case. The UK is not part of the Schengen system, so while someone may have a visa to travel to France through Schengen, that does not grant them access to the UK, which is why problems arise.

If that were the case since the mid 80s there would be more non EU nationals in the UK currently than there are.

[Nedusa]

But Britain and Northern Ireland never joined the Schengen agreement. We were one of the countries that opted out.

The countries who did join can opt out at any time, they don't need to leave the EU to do that. Germany and Austria have done just that since a record number of migrants have travelled there. France has re-imposed its border controls from time to time and so have the Dutch.

For the Brits, the one thing that benefits us from the Schengen agreement is rapid response when chasing criminals across borders.

You know exactly what I mean....

[DemolitionRed]

You know exactly what I mean....

No, I don't know what you mean.

bitontheside: The problem from a UK perspective is people using their Schengen travel capability to wander through europe, arrive in France and then sneak in to the UK. The UK can't control that easily.

We can't rule the rest of Europe. We can't make decisions on the countries that are part of the Schengen agreement.

Pulling out of the EU would make no difference when it comes to people attempting to get into the UK through the back door. Our border controls are pretty tight here and because we are an island surrounded on all sides by the ocean, breaching those borders is far more perilous than the rest of Europe. Unlike us, European borders have to rely on honesty (people entering through correct border controls) but a person who wishes to breach those borders illegally would only have to walk a little off the beaten track to get into another country.

Our house in France is right on the Italian border. I've walked into Italy many times without having to go through border controls.

Unless the rest of Europe built something equivalent to the great wall of China or Hadrians wall and man those walls day and night with guards, people will always wander across borders without a problem.

[Nedusa]

No, I don't know what you mean.

bitontheside: The problem from a UK perspective is people using their Schengen travel capability to wander through europe, arrive in France and then sneak in to the UK. The UK can't control that easily.

We can't rule the rest of Europe. We can't make decisions on the countries that are part of the Schengen agreement.

Pulling out of the EU would make no difference when it comes to people attempting to get into the UK through the back door. Our border controls are pretty tight here and because we are an island surrounded on all sides by the ocean, breaching those borders is far more perilous than the rest of Europe. Unlike us, European borders have to rely on honesty (people entering through correct border controls) but a person who wishes to breach those borders illegally would only have to walk a little off the beaten track to get into another country.

Our house in France is right on the Italian border. I've walked into Italy many times without having to go through border controls.

Unless the rest of Europe built something equivalent to the great wall of China or Hadrians wall and man those walls day and night with guards, people will always wander across borders without a problem.

It's the front door that worries me tbh.....

[DemolitionRed]

It's the front door that worries me tbh.....

But without the correct paperwork they can't enter the UK through the front door. A Schengen visa doesn't give them the right to enter the UK unless they are from the EU.

[Kizzy]

It's the front door that worries me tbh.....

Islands don't have front doors.

[empire]

N. Ireland is a very small country, and dose not have the infrastructure, and is badly split society, and having a load of muslims taking up housing, will end up causing the country to go back to the bad old days of the troubles, east europe has still not recoverd from the break up of the soviet union, with poor infrastructure, and they will only want christian syrians only, euorpe can't really solve the refugee problem, because you can't deport them when the war is over.

[arista]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02494/01_52784816-5fd1-1_2494224a.jpg
Yes Germany
look at the mess you have made
making millions more rush over for your
free chocolate and homes

[Kizzy]

Who is being mocked here, the 1000s trying to survive or the one European leader?

[arista]

Who is being mocked here, the 1000s trying to survive or the one European leader?


Sure
But it was her fault.
She Started the Great Welcome
until it got to much.


Our PM is Giving Millions
more in Aid
to help the Camps
he has said today

[Kizzy]

Sure
But it was her fault.
She Started the Great Welcome
until it got to much.


Our PM is Giving Millions
more in Aid
to help the Camps
he has said today

Really? just her.. and what was the alternative again?

[arista]

Really? just her.. and what was the alternative again?


Going to the Legal Camps outside the War Nations
not paying Evil Criminals Smugglers who do
not care if you die.

[Kizzy]

Going to the Legal Camps outside the War Nations
not paying Evil Criminals Smugglers who do
not care if you die.

I meant what was the EU leaders alternative regarding refugees.

[arista]

I meant what was the EU leaders alternative regarding refugees.

They are in a Mess


Thank the German Woman

[Kizzy]

They are in a Mess


Thank the German Woman

Ah so she's the fall guy... sorry woman. Should've known :/
No matter how many leaders were involved, what the humanitarian crisis, who bombed who...hmmm ok.

[arista]

"who bombed who."

The Syrian Leader
Then Mega Big Isis

[empire]

the fact that europe could deport the refugees to their country of origin, the socialist parties have failed the local people, because they do not understand that they will be a huge burden on welfare and housing, and many fear that they will become a minority in their own country, the problem with the left wing parties, is that they want to have all their cake and to eat it,

[kirklancaster]

Merkels is De Fuhrer not the De Scapegoat.

[Kizzy]

Merkels is De Fuhrer not the De Scapegoat.

Yes she is the leader of one EU country... is she not being used as a scapegoat?

[Johnnyuk123]

3 countries surrounding Syria have not taken a single migrant in and the migrants are not even trying to go there cos they know that they have no chance of getting in. The EU need to do the same. Simples.

[Johnnyuk123]

Would Syria take british people in if we had conflict here and they fled to Syria? Not a chance.

[smudgie]

A good beginning would to process the migrants at the country they first land in/on.
Easier to sort out the migrants from the genuine refugees and send the economic migrants back home, before they waste all their time moving from country to country.
What is the point of Merkel announcing who will not now be classed as refugees if they don't actually put a plan in action.
A bit cruel letting people travel all that way through half of Europe with them thinking they have caught the gravy train when they hadn't and they will be End up deported.

[empire]

The fact that are government puts harsh cuts on everything, on the british people, but refugees get a free house, food, heating, and get double benefits, more than the british worker who has paid their stamps, and people who are working, struggle to pay the high rent, bills, and paying high tax, that funds the refugees who come here, are mps don't know what a real harsh life is, with there rich houses and flats in london, they still have there forefathers victorian attitudes, too the underpaid british worker,

[Kizzy]

Refugees have nothing to do with cuts apart from the fact the action overseas the cuts are funding are the reason we have refugees ...

[DemolitionRed]

Hopefully we will take the same move that Finland are proposing and raise capital gains and income tax on the rich. The Finish government also announced that members of parliament would be required to take a week's unpaid holiday and all ministers would forgo a week's pay.

Its the wealthy corporate giants who will benefit hugely from this immigration crisis because it provides them with more lowly paid workers.

[lostalex]

the reports i've seen that less than 1/5 of refugees are actually from war zones is really bothering me. it seems like the word is out to everyone in the middle east, if you want to get into Europe, now is the time!

how do you sort out the real refugee's that are from war zones from the people who just want a better life?

[MTVN]

the reports i've seen that less than 1/5 of refugees are actually from war zones is really bothering me. it seems like the word is out to everyone in the middle east, if you want to get into Europe, now is the time!

how do you sort out the real refugee's that are from war zones from the people who just want a better life?

The reports were that 'only' 1 in 5 migrants are from Syria. We were supposed to be outraged about that as if Syria was the only conflict to be fleeing from. It might not be mentioned much but there are eight other civil wars being waged between Nigeria and Pakistan alone, shouldn't be a surprise that there are more nationalities than Syrians fleeing conflict